The Most Important Issue: America's National Debt

[Walter Powers]

This issue is so important, I wanted to put it in in the title.

In fact, I believe the future of the free world is resting on it. I feel that people aren't talking about it enough, when it should really be by far our number one priority.

The United State's national debt and spending is totally out of control. For those who aren't aware, it is quickly approaching $17,000,000,000,000.00. (Did you count all the zeros?) That's over $50,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country, legally and illegally! Sure, it causes a little inflation now, makes us pay an extra dime or two for milk, has us paying some interest out of the federal budget, but it is nothing, I repeat nothing, compared to what is to come.

Once a few major players decide they don't want to be invested in us anymore because we aren't paying back on our obligations, that's it. I'm serious. After they pull out the rest of the entities that are invested in us will follow suit. The whole system will crumble shockingly fast. There is that economic tipping point and in the not-so-distant future, it will come. History shows this; it's how many other great nations have fallen.

What does this mean for Americans? The value of our dollar will plummet. Prices of everyday goods will double, best case scenario. The government will only be able to afford to pay out a fraction of what people are legally entitled to in services such as Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, and Medicaid. Good luck financing ObamaCare, too! Federal school funding will be cut drastically, to the point where we might very well have student:teacher ratios comparable to places like Africa. When all of the great bridges built in the 50s and 60s begin to need replacement, we won't be able to afford it. Worse yet, our military would have to take gigantic blows to their budget, endangering the safety of every American. And the cuts won't be limited to the federal level, either. States and locales will be forced to do the same thing, cutting funds for things like public safety and their share of the school's money. Stories of cities going bankrupt like Detroit did recently would become fairly commonplace.

And what does this mean for people around the world? Well, I imagine Americans would be very hesitant to be giving aid to foreign countries in the time of economic peril described, we'd keep it for ourselves, so you can say bye-bye to American aid. Also, with the collapse of American markets, the global economy is going to take an enormous hit, as so many people are invested in us. Also, most of the world's biggest companies are based here; if you work for them, there's a good chance you'll be either taking a large pay cut or getting laid off.

And more importantly for citizens of America's allies, such as the United Kingdom, our military won't be there to protect you in a time of war. We couldn't afford it. Essentially, this debt very well could make China and Russia the world superpowers. I'm not kidding. That would be disastrous; these evil dictators might just want to take over the world, and given the power they probably would. I am not exaggerating when I say that as a result of our governments completely irresponsible spending, it could mean the end of liberty as we know it. This is just as much a concern for Americans as every other freedom loving society on this planet.

I just want to spread the message that our government needs to make some big changes, BIG CHANGES, to save the world from global catastrophe. And fast.

Here's a breakdown of America's federal budget I found:

http://mercatus.org/sites/default/files/2012-federal-budget-bars-new.jpg

Yep, very depressing. No, it's more then depressing, it's downright horrifying! Every year, we are spending $1.1 trillion over the amount of tax revenue brought in. To put it into perspective: This would be like a family making $52,000 a year having $388,000 in unpaid debts, and still spending $22,000 more then they make each year. The only entity on this planet who could get away with this completely absurd amount of negligence and irresponsibility is the American federal government! And they won't be getting away with it for much longer, as I explained above.

I just don't want to leave this world in a worse place then when I got here. Our generation may very well be the first in human history to do that, and that scares me. It's time to get serious about our future.

Do you agree that America's debt is a major problem? And if you do, looking at this graph, how would you fix our shortfall to balance the budget and take us out of this nearing crisis? What areas would you cut? Would you raise taxes? If so, what taxes would you raise/implement?

I'd like to hear your opinions, then I'll share what I think would best be done. I'm sure it won't be popular, and I don't want to have everybody fired up in their initial response.

[Southside]

I think we should cut defense and immediately stop the flow of foreign military aid to places like Israel, Egypt, Pakistan. We don't need to be spending money on million dollar drones that are killing innocent civilians in Yemen and Pakistan. We don't need to be giving our tax dollars to Israel so they can bomb sports stadiums and airports in the Gaza Strip. We don't need to act like the world police! It's our world police policies that caused 9/11 and caused a good amount of our debt.

China and Russia aren't "evil dictators"(OK, maybe China), just because they wont give up Snowden doesn't mean they wanna rule the world. Stop living in the Cold War past, those days are over.

To be completely honest, I don't have any solutions for our debt problem, I just know cutting defense a bit and giving billions in military aid to different countries would help a bit.

America=Freedom? Ha..You patriotic people are quite funny..

[conniption]

I think we should cut defense and immediately stop the flow of foreign aid to places like Israel, Egypt, Pakistan. We don't need to be spending money on million dollar drones that are killing innocent civilians in Yemen and Pakistan. We don't need to be giving our tax dollars to Israel so they can bomb sports stadiums and airports in the Gaza Strip. China and Russia aren't "evil dictators"(OK, maybe China) , stop living in the Cold War past.

It's no secret that Russia's government is corrupt.

[Walter Powers]

I think we should cut defense and immediately stop the flow of foreign aid to places like Israel, Egypt, Pakistan. We don't need to be spending money on million dollar drones that are killing innocent civilians in Yemen and Pakistan. We don't need to be giving our tax dollars to Israel so they can bomb sports stadiums and airports in the Gaza Strip. China and Russia aren't "evil dictators"(OK, maybe China) , stop living in the Cold War past.

I was looking for a more complete of a response. Looking at the graph, obviously defense isn't the only thing to cut...you could take away the entire department and we'd still have a big shortfall! What else would you do?

Russia is certainly led by evil dictators. Vladimir Putin keeps fixing the elections. That is evil. And since he wasn't really democratically elected, he's a dictator.

[Southside]

It's no secret that Russia's government is corrupt.

They are, so are a lot of our own governments and police departments right at home in America.

I was looking for a more complete of a response. Looking at the graph, obviously defense isn't the only thing to cut...you could take away the entire department and we'd still have a big shortfall! What else would you do?

Russia is certainly led by evil dictators. Vladimir Putin keeps fixing the elections. That is evil. And since he wasn't really democratically elected, he's a dictator.

I will admit that I am totally stomped on the whole economic issue, I don't know what I would do. I know I'd have riots and shoot-outs on my hands if I cut most of the things that are in your little graph.

Cutting welfare and other social programs were going to have riots on our hands. Look at whats been happening across Europe these last few years, countries are cutting welfare and they are being burnt to the ground by angry citizens, so cutting these programs wouldn't be the smartest decision.

So just because a leader isn't democratically elected that makes them evil? Sorry to get your thread off topic but how do you feel about the Gulf States such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar? the same people we are sucking tons of cock for the oil.

Stop barrowing money from China?


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

[Stronk Serb]

Without cutting any welfare programs, yeah cut defence, stop foreign military aid, pull the troops back from the Middle East. Now why not cut welfare? Because people who work and are on welfare cannot live without it, so they will riot and a revolt might start. And please define the "free world".

[Harry Smith]

Firstly as said it's interesting that countries like Saudi Arabria aren't mentioned as evil enough though they have much worse human rights records than countries like Russia. But sure let's go back to cold war thinking.

Firstly cut foreign aid to any country which has major human rights abuse, a democratization program is the only answer. Abandon fossil fuels, the US need to focus on wind power, solar panels and Nuclear power. If we keep polluting the environment then we're not going to have a world to live in.

I'm not saying big defense cuts, by really get rid of some of the aircraft carriers, they burn cash and really you don't need 12 of them. The US needs to pull out of Afghanistan, your post talks about the ability to defend against attack but the US have started every single war in the last 50 years. Diplomacy is always an option.

Look at Eishenhower's speech about the military industry complex- it's one of the best presidential threads

The US needs to improve their transport, as mentioned above people are using too much petrol and as a result the government are having to spend billions subsiding it. We pay about 3x as much as America do, it's about £1.50 per litre for petrol. Tax cuts for alternative energy is the way forward

Cut Farm subsides for starters, if it's uneconomic to run a farm you shouldn't be running it. The subsides also cause many problems for farmers due to the rather linear way there are issued.

Now onto taxes, protect the lower classes from tax increases and increase the tax for the mega rich corporations who have profited off the recession. Limit the massive bonuses that CEO's of banks get for taking stupid risks that triggered all of this

[tovaris]

I say let them drown in what the cooked up.

[Jean Poutine]

This issue is so important, I wanted to put it in in the title.

Okay.

In fact, I believe the future of the free world is resting on it. I feel that people aren't talking about it enough, when it should really be by far our number one priority.

As if America is a part of the "free world". I would consider that title well used up by now in North America and I'd be ready to pass it on to the EU.

The United State's national debt and spending is totally out of control. For those who aren't aware, it is quickly approaching $17,000,000,000,000.00. (Did you count all the zeros?) That's over $50,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country, legally and illegally! Sure, it causes a little inflation now, makes us pay an extra dime or two for milk, has us paying some interest out of the federal budget, but it is nothing, I repeat nothing, compared to what is to come.

Okay.

Once a few major players decide they don't want to be invested in us anymore because we aren't paying back on our obligations, that's it. I'm serious. After they pull out the rest of the entities that are invested in us will follow suit. The whole system will crumble shockingly fast. There is that economic tipping point and in the not-so-distant future, it will come. History shows this; it's how many other great nations have fallen.

How's that capitalism working out for you?

Isn't it ironic that a nation where a huge part of the population considers small government desirable has the biggest debt in the world? Where have you spent all that money? Given the state of American society, nowhere useful.

And people like you are to blame for giving power to those who have transformed the hitherto reputable American republic into an oligarchy of the worst kind. I've read Alexis de Tocqueville's work on America, shortly after it declared independence. The contrast between then and now (and the predictions!) are very unsettling.

What does this mean for Americans? The value of our dollar will plummet. Prices of everyday goods will double, best case scenario.

Um, not until Americans need to burn the money because it's so useless it makes a bigger fire than the wood it can buy, like in Hungary. You are an alarmist.

The government will only be able to afford to pay out a fraction of what people are legally entitled to in services such as Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, and Medicaid. Good luck financing ObamaCare, too!

Again, thanks to who? Who thought it was a good idea to run a for-profit country?

About your little jab on Obamacare, I've discussed with you at length how adopting a system like Canada's would actually save money in the long run. The system's administrative costs as it is is ridiculously high.

Federal school funding will be cut drastically, to the point where we might very well have student:teacher ratios comparable to places like Africa. When all of the great bridges built in the 50s and 60s begin to need replacement, we won't be able to afford it.

Okay.

Worse yet, our military would have to take gigantic blows to their budget, endangering the safety of every American.

I'm sure you can do without some of that 600 billion you're spending on an army that does nothing of significance to begin with, except invade other countries and meddle in their internal affairs. That's a far cry from "protecting Americans".

Ever consider that maybe the "War on Terrorism" would go a little better if you guys actually had friends instead of being the neighborhood bully?

And the cuts won't be limited to the federal level, either. States and locales will be forced to do the same thing, cutting funds for things like public safety and their share of the school's money. Stories of cities going bankrupt like Detroit did recently would become fairly commonplace.

Again, thanks to who? You guys have been advocating small government for decades. The social security net as it is in America is inferior to almost every developed country's and even some not so developed. Where did all that money go?

And what does this mean for people around the world? Well, I imagine Americans would be very hesitant to be giving aid to foreign countries in the time of economic peril described, we'd keep it for ourselves, so you can say bye-bye to American aid.

Oh, that means other countries will finally be able to perform abortions in their rickety-shack clinics without the American government sticking (again) its head in an ass it does not belong in, putting up conditions making it so abortion clinics receive no funding.

As a percentage of GNI, America contributes 0.2% of that to foreign aid, vastly lower than the likes of the UK (0.52%).

Also, with the collapse of American markets, the global economy is going to take an enormous hit, as so many people are invested in us. Also, most of the world's biggest companies are based here; if you work for them, there's a good chance you'll be either taking a large pay cut or getting laid off.

We'll just go to China for our needs instead then.

And more importantly for citizens of America's allies, such as the United Kingdom, our military won't be there to protect you in a time of war.

America can't even pacify remote bumblefuck places like Afghanistan and pulled out of a war against tunnel rats and hookers with razor blades in their vaginas. American military dominance ended eons ago. Where have you been living, man, under a rock?

We couldn't afford it. Essentially, this debt very well could make China and Russia the world superpowers. I'm not kidding. That would be disastrous; these evil dictators might just want to take over the world, and given the power they probably would.

Your post was actually quite reasonable (at least, as reasonable as I expected of you) until this.

Give me 5 reasons why a reasonable person should consider either Putin or Jinping as "evil dictators".

I am not exaggerating when I say that as a result of our governments completely irresponsible spending, it could mean the end of liberty as we know it. This is just as much a concern for Americans as every other freedom loving society on this planet.

Snort. Like Americans have any liberty. Rich ones, sure. Poor ones? Maybe the liberty to choose between 3 crappy part-time minimum wage jobs to just survive.

I just want to spread the message that our government needs to make some big changes, BIG CHANGES, to save the world from global catastrophe. And fast.

Yeah.

Remove the corporations from power, strip them of their made up "constitutional rights", hike up taxes for the rich and businesses, greater oversight on corruption and backroom deals as well as more accountability to the people. That would be a small start.

Yep, very depressing. No, it's more then depressing, it's downright horrifying! Every year, we are spending $1.1 trillion over the amount of tax revenue brought in. To put it into perspective: [B]This would be like a family making $52,000 a year having $388,000 in unpaid debts, and still spending $22,000 more then they make each year.

Sounds like the typical Western family to me. Not only is public debt spiraling out of control, but private debt is too.

The only entity on this planet who could get away with this completely absurd amount of negligence and irresponsibility is the American federal government! And they won't be getting away with it for much longer, as I explained above.

Again, where does all that money go? Why are you guys so socially underdeveloped? Why don't you have what poorer countries (from a GNP standpoint) have? Could it be all the military spending, the crushing debt accumulated by invading foreign countries, all the money given to an apartheid state without any satisfactory reason, the government's repeated attempted bailouts of its American dream capitalist economy because you've finally got people greedy enough to bring down a whole economy to its knees with speculative bubbles?

Could it be that laissez-faire is a bunch of shit and that the magic hand of the free market is too busy fisting Chinese butthole to make some love time for its old American friend?

I just don't want to leave this world in a worse place then when I got here. Our generation may very well be the first in human history to do that, and that scares me. It's time to get serious about our future.

On that, we agree, albeit for different reasons.

Do you agree that America's debt is a major problem? And if you do, looking at this graph, how would you fix our shortfall to balance the budget and take us out of this nearing crisis? What areas would you cut? Would you raise taxes? If so, what taxes would you raise/implement?

Cut the military, disengage from Japan and Korea, raise taxes on the rich and corps, stop doling out money to Israel for no good reason (can we have some too?), and most importantly, stop being assholes.

[Walter Powers]

Okay, here's what I think must be done. This is gonna hurt, but it's gonna hurt even more if we don't make these changes. No pain no gain, right?

Here's what we're gonna have to do. Remember, I warned you it wouldn't be popular!
-Reduce the amount of time you can be on unemployment benefits from the years that Obama has extended it to back to the 90 day limit under Bush. Not only would this save tons of money, it'd also motivate people to get a job.
-Gradually begin to increase the Medicare eligibility age to 70. Medicare was established in a time where you didn't have much longer to live after you became 65, we need to update it for the times.
-Begin to lower Social Security benefits. People will say that that's not fair and they are legally entitled to that money, but guess what, if things keep going the way we are, you won't be getting much of anything out of SS if there's no change.
-Remove funding from the "Affordable" (yeah right) Care Act.
-Cut wages for federal employees across the board. If the monopolist public employee unions refuse to cooperate, too bad, the employees should be given the choice to either work or be fired if they choose to strike. The future of America can't be lost because greedy union thugs won't cooperate.
-Almost completely defund the post office -sell everything and law off all workers except the resources needed to deliver mail to rural areas where UPS or FedEx won't.
-Defund the Department of Housing -they only create hellholes for poor people to live in.
-Defund the Department of Energy- It's a waste of energy, implementing regulations that hurt our economy.
-Defund the Department of Agriculture - Let the market do it's job! We don't need farm subsidies.
-Develop our sources of energy -We have coal, oil, and natural gas, now is the time to develop and use it!

This is my solution to a very urgent problem. I think it could make at least a good size dent in the shortfall.

I will admit that I am totally stomped on the whole economic issue, I don't know what I would do. I know I'd have riots and shoot-outs on my hands if I cut most of the things that are in your little graph.

Cutting welfare and other social programs were going to have riots on our hands. Look at whats been happening across Europe these last few years, countries are cutting welfare and they are being burnt to the ground by angry citizens, so cutting these programs wouldn't be the smartest decision.

So just because a leader isn't democratically elected that makes them evil? Sorry to get your thread off topic but how do you feel about the Gulf States such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar? the same people we are sucking tons of cock for the oil.

Stop barrowing money from China?

Okay, let's start here:

will admit that I am totally stomped on the whole economic issue, I don't know what I would do. I know I'd have riots and shoot-outs on my hands if I cut most of the things that are in your little graph.

Cutting welfare and other social programs were going to have riots on our hands. Look at whats been happening across Europe these last few years, countries are cutting welfare and they are being burnt to the ground by angry citizens, so cutting these programs wouldn't be the smartest decision.

Well, if you don't have any better ideas, we have to cut these things. Sure, some greedy thugs who can't see the need will riot, and that's why one thing I wouldn't cut is police protection and prison funding!

The bottom line is that eventually if we don't do anything these programs will "cut themselves" so to speak, and then I imagine the riots would be even worse!

So just because a leader isn't democratically elected that makes them evil? Sorry to get your thread off topic but how do you feel about the Gulf States such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Qatar? the same people we are sucking tons of cock for the oil.

I define evil as people who gain personally by making others suffer. Vladimir Putin is a terrible "President" for the Russian people, and so the fact that he fixes the elections so he can continue to do them harm makes him evil, in my book...but that's not the topic of the thread; I don't want to get too sidetracked.

The Gulf States aren't really relevant to the topic at hand. If you wish to discuss them, make a thread and I promise I will comment.

Without cutting any welfare programs, yeah cut defence, stop foreign military aid, pull the troops back from the Middle East. Now why not cut welfare? Because people who work and are on welfare cannot live without it, so they will riot and a revolt might start. And please define the "free world".

Uh, why? Is that really important?

Look at that graph. How in the world are we gonna come close to balancing the budget off of defense cuts! We could eliminate the entire department and we wouldn't be even halfway there! And it's the most important department!

A revolt will start because they'll lose even more of the entitlements if we don't cut them now. As I said above, in this crisis situation I describe they'll "cut themselves". The money will run out! We need these cuts.

Firstly as said it's interesting that countries like Saudi Arabria aren't mentioned as evil enough though they have much worse human rights records than countries like Russia. But sure let's go back to cold war thinking.

Firstly cut foreign aid to any country which has major human rights abuse, a democratization program is the only answer. Abandon fossil fuels, the US need to focus on wind power, solar panels and Nuclear power. If we keep polluting the environment then we're not going to have a world to live in.

I'm not saying big defense cuts, by really get rid of some of the aircraft carriers, they burn cash and really you don't need 12 of them. The US needs to pull out of Afghanistan, your post talks about the ability to defend against attack but the US have started every single war in the last 50 years. Diplomacy is always an option.

Look at Eishenhower's speech about the military industry complex- it's one of the best presidential threads

The US needs to improve their transport, as mentioned above people are using too much petrol and as a result the government are having to spend billions subsiding it. We pay about 3x as much as America do, it's about £1.50 per litre for petrol. Tax cuts for alternative energy is the way forward

Cut Farm subsides for starters, if it's uneconomic to run a farm you shouldn't be running it. The subsides also cause many problems for farmers due to the rather linear way there are issued.

Now onto taxes, protect the lower classes from tax increases and increase the tax for the mega rich corporations who have profited off the recession. Limit the massive bonuses that CEO's of banks get for taking stupid risks that triggered all of this

Firstly as said it's interesting that countries like Saudi Arabria aren't mentioned as evil enough though they have much worse human rights records than countries like Russia. But sure let's go back to cold war thinking.

I mention Russia because they are much more powerful then the Saudis. But yes, the Saudis are run by evil people, too.

Firstly cut foreign aid to any country which has major human rights abuse, a democratization program is the only answer. Abandon fossil fuels, the US need to focus on wind power, solar panels and Nuclear power. If we keep polluting the environment then we're not going to have a world to live in.
I agree with cutting and to countries who don't grant there people the principals of freedom.
I also agree with nuclear power development, but come on, solar power. The last thing we need is to be spending billions and billions of dollars on such inefficient means of power generation. We are talking about how to fix our debt problem, not make it worse!

And come on dude, we have so many fossil fuels here, we might as well use them. It'd put us at a huge disadvantage not to develop them. Also, it could very well help us get out of this situation. Look at the State of Alaska. Because of the oil money there, the only taxes the state has to impose is a tax on oil. Not only that, but there is such a surplus of money in the state treasury every man, women, and child gets a check for over a thousand dollars every year from the government. If we develop oil and even tax it just a little, it could be beneficial for getting us out of this horrible situation!

Drill, baby, drill!

I find it ironic how progressives are always so concerned about the environment but won't give a damn about our economic future. Sorry, I just had to say that. I don't care if my air is crystal clean if me and my family are living in a little hut! And the bottom line is, no matter what we do, countries like China are going to keep pumping things you wouldn't like into our atmosphere.

The US needs to improve their transport, as mentioned above people are using too much petrol and as a result the government are having to spend billions subsiding it. We pay about 3x as much as America do, it's about £1.50 per litre for petrol. Tax cuts for alternative energy is the way forward

Wait, what? You pay three times as much for fuel and you think we should copy you? Wow, you must hate America more then I thought.

Now onto taxes, protect the lower classes from tax increases and increase the tax for the mega rich corporations who have profited off the recession. Limit the massive bonuses that CEO's of banks get for taking stupid risks that triggered all of this

How do you define what "mega-rich" corporations a profited off the recession? Just curious. Seems like we'd need a lot more criminally negligent IRS workers to sort that out.And how much tax increases are we talking about?

So to balance the budget you've suggested "not big" defense cuts, spending tons of money on solar and wind power, stopping the development of the most valuable resources we have, giving more tax cuts for "alternative energy", cutting farm subsidies (one good point there) and raising taxes on our biggest employers. Am I missing something? Because I'm not sure the amount of money these things would save, if any, is even worth mentioning when I asked how we can balance the budget with a $1.1 Trillion deficit. The cuts need to go much, much deeper. Like it or not, our only choice will be to dig into entitlements.

Okay.



As if America is a part of the "free world". I would consider that title well used up by now in North America and I'd be ready to pass it on to the EU.



Okay.



How's that capitalism working out for you?

Isn't it ironic that a nation where a huge part of the population considers small government desirable has the biggest debt in the world? Where have you spent all that money? Given the state of American society, nowhere useful.

And people like you are to blame for giving power to those who have transformed the hitherto reputable American republic into an oligarchy of the worst kind. I've read Alexis de Tocqueville's work on America, shortly after it declared independence. The contrast between then and now (and the predictions!) are very unsettling.



Um, not until Americans need to burn the money because it's so useless it makes a bigger fire than the wood it can buy, like in Hungary. You are an alarmist.



Again, thanks to who? Who thought it was a good idea to run a for-profit country?

About your little jab on Obamacare, I've discussed with you at length how adopting a system like Canada's would actually save money in the long run. The system's administrative costs as it is is ridiculously high.



Okay.



I'm sure you can do without some of that 600 billion you're spending on an army that does nothing of significance to begin with, except invade other countries and meddle in their internal affairs. That's a far cry from "protecting Americans".

Ever consider that maybe the "War on Terrorism" would go a little better if you guys actually had friends instead of being the neighborhood bully?



Again, thanks to who? You guys have been advocating small government for decades. The social security net as it is in America is inferior to almost every developed country's and even some not so developed. Where did all that money go?



Oh, that means other countries will finally be able to perform abortions in their rickety-shack clinics without the American government sticking (again) its head in an ass it does not belong in, putting up conditions making it so abortion clinics receive no funding.

As a percentage of GNI, America contributes 0.2% of that to foreign aid, vastly lower than the likes of the UK (0.52%).



We'll just go to China for our needs instead then.



America can't even pacify remote bumblefuck places like Afghanistan and pulled out of a war against tunnel rats and hookers with razor blades in their vaginas. American military dominance ended eons ago. Where have you been living, man, under a rock?



Your post was actually quite reasonable (at least, as reasonable as I expected of you) until this.

Give me 5 reasons why a reasonable person should consider either Putin or Jinping as "evil dictators".



Snort. Like Americans have any liberty. Rich ones, sure. Poor ones? Maybe the liberty to choose between 3 crappy part-time minimum wage jobs to just survive.



Yeah.

Remove the corporations from power, strip them of their made up "constitutional rights", hike up taxes for the rich and businesses, greater oversight on corruption and backroom deals as well as more accountability to the people. That would be a small start.



Sounds like the typical Western family to me. Not only is public debt spiraling out of control, but private debt is too.



Again, where does all that money go? Why are you guys so socially underdeveloped? Why don't you have what poorer countries (from a GNP standpoint) have? Could it be all the military spending, the crushing debt accumulated by invading foreign countries, all the money given to an apartheid state without any satisfactory reason, the government's repeated attempted bailouts of its American dream capitalist economy because you've finally got people greedy enough to bring down a whole economy to its knees with speculative bubbles?

Could it be that laissez-faire is a bunch of shit and that the magic hand of the free market is too busy fisting Chinese butthole to make some love time for its old American friend?



On that, we agree, albeit for different reasons.

Do you agree that America's debt is a major problem? And if you do, looking at this graph, how would you fix our shortfall to balance the budget and take us out of this nearing crisis? What areas would you cut? Would you raise taxes? If so, what taxes would you raise/implement?

Cut the military, disengage from Japan and Korea, raise taxes on the rich and corps, stop doling out money to Israel for no good reason (can we have some too?), and most importantly, stop being assholes.

As if America is a part of the "free world". I would consider that title well used up by now in North America and I'd be ready to pass it on to the EU

This is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

How's that capitalism working out for you?

Isn't it ironic that a nation where a huge part of the population considers small government desirable has the biggest debt in the world? Where have you spent all that money? Given the state of American society, nowhere useful.

Isn't it ironic that a nation where a huge part of the population considers small government desirable has the biggest debt in the world? Where have you spent all that money? Given the state of American society, nowhere useful.

And people like you are to blame for giving power to those who have transformed the hitherto reputable American republic into an oligarchy of the worst kind. I've read Alexis de Tocqueville's work on America, shortly after it declared independence. The contrast between then and now (and the predictions!) are very unsettling.

I can't believe somebody would have the audacity to suggest that it was our capitalist, conservative principals that accumulated this debt. That frankly is downright idiotic thing to say.Look at the graph of our spending, do Pete's sake! How much of our money is spent on things conservatives like that provide the conditions for a capitalist society to prosper, such as defense, compared to the amount spent on socialist, left wing entitlement programs that you like. The overwhelming majority is spent on the latter. It is things such as welfare and unemployment benefits that you socialists are in favor of that are bankrupting us, those things have increased they're spending the most recently!

As for your second little jab, I don't really understand. We conservatives stand for what America always has. I would elect Thomas Jefferson if he was on the ballot in a heartbeat. I'm not really sure what your trying to say? The people who want to change this country radically are the so-called "progressives".

I favor small government. I also favor elections. That is not an oligarchy unless you are dealing with a bunch of monopolies, which is another problem entirely.

You want oligarchiests? How about the radical leftists head honchos you'd put in charge who'd insure everybody but them was equally miserable?

Um, not until Americans need to burn the money because it's so useless it makes a bigger fire than the wood it can buy, like in Hungary. You are an alarmist.

So you don't agree America's debt is a big problem? You think we can spend, spend, spend, and keep spending and nothing will happen? Give me a break! What kind of fantasy world do you live in? You think we can just keep printing money? Eventually people invested in us will lose confidence and pull out, and we won't have anymore money to print. The value of the dollar will plummet, and so naturally prices will go up.

Since you do not understand the basic economic principal of cash flow and thus cannot see that we can't spend forever, I see no reason to replying to the rest of your post, as this concept is critical to what is being discussed. No point in discussing what should be cut if you don't see the need for it.

[Harry Smith]

I agree with cutting and to countries who don't grant there people the principals of freedom.
I also agree with nuclear power development, but come on, solar power. The last thing we need is to be spending billions and billions of dollars on such inefficient means of power generation. We are talking about how to fix our debt problem, not make it worse!

And come on dude, we have so many fossil fuels here, we might as well use them. It'd put us at a huge disadvantage not to develop them. Also, it could very well help us get out of this situation. Look at the State of Alaska. Because of the oil money there, the only taxes the state has to impose is a tax on oil. Not only that, but there is such a surplus of money in the state treasury every man, women, and child gets a check for over a thousand dollars every year from the government. If we develop oil and even tax it just a little, it could be beneficial for getting us out of this horrible situation!

I'm certain that Nuclear Power is the way forward, along with some help from America in regards to Nuclear Fusion. Wind power can also be very useful on the coastal areas of America. It's about diversifying your Energy because we've only got 40 years left of Fossil fuels.

That's Alaska, the whole of the US doesn't have reserves of that size. You can't invest millions into something that will be gone in 40 years. The US is going to have a problem with it's fuel source in the future.


I find it ironic how progressives are always so concerned about the environment but won't give a damn about our economic future. Sorry, I just had to say that. I don't care if my air is crystal clean if me and my family are living in a little hut! And the bottom line is, no matter what we do, countries like China are going to keep pumping things you wouldn't like into our atmosphere.

So because China does it then it's fine? What's the point in being a superpower if you don't lead on anything, you should really give a damn about the crystal clean air because if sea levels continue to rise it's going to cause havoc for the world. America is going to have to deal with millions of climate change refugees.

Look at Britain, it's predicted that by 2070 more than 150 miles in wards of East Anglia could be under water, we'd have to deal with Flash Floods that would cover the whole of London in 10 ft of water.

Bangladesh would 20% of their land under water, crops wouldn't be able to grow and disease and famine would rapidly increase. I'm concerned about the environment because I don't millions of people do die


Wait, what? You pay three times as much for fuel and you think we should copy you? Wow, you must hate America more then I thought.

Yes, they shouldn't have to subside fuel to such low levels, not only does it cost billions but it's making Americans think that petrol is the way forward when in fact we've know it's pitfalls since 1973

How do you define what "mega-rich" corporations a profited off the recession? Just curious. Seems like we'd need a lot more criminally negligent IRS workers to sort that out.And how much tax increases are we talking about?

The Massive investment banks who continually gambled money they simply didn't have, you've got companies in Britain such as Amazon and google who haven't paid a single pound in tax. Southern Water are based in London and they still haven't paid any corporation tax, I'm simply asking that the big companies pay the tax they have an obligation to pay


B]So to balance the budget you've suggested "not big" defense cuts, spending tons of money on solar and wind power, stopping the development of the most valuable resources we have, giving more tax cuts for "alternative energy", cutting farm subsidies (one good point there) and raising taxes on our biggest employers. Am I missing something? Because I'm sure the amount of money these things would save, if any, is even worth mentioning when I asked how we can balance the budget with a $1.1 Trillion deficit. The cuts need to go much, much deeper. Like it or not, our only choice will be to dig into entitlements.

The most valuable resource is in fact water- have you seen Quantum of Solace?

I think their should be defense cuts for Britain, but I know that the ultra right of America like to have very expensive high tech weapons to help kill an afghan family, but let's just say that helps protect us from the evil Arabs!

I also think their should be a tax increase for the upper tax brackets, I'm honestly not sure on the extract rates or numbers because I'm not an economist and I'm much more aware of how the British tax system works.

The one thing I can ensure you is that I would keep away from anything related to Bush Tax cuts for the rich, something which just didn't deliever. Bush was the only US president (who has served 2 terms) who has failed to have double digit job growth over his two terms

[Southside]

Okay, here's what I think must be done. This is gonna hurt, but it's gonna hurt even more if we don't make these changes. No pain no gain, right?

Here's what we're gonna have to do. Remember, I warned you it wouldn't be popular!
-Reduce the amount of time you can be on unemployment benefits from the years that Obama has extended it to back to the 90 day limit under Bush. Not only would this save tons of money, it'd also motivate people to get a job.
-Gradually begin to increase the Medicare eligibility age to 70. Medicare was established in a time where you didn't have much longer to live after you became 65, we need to update it for the times.
-Begin to lower Social Security benefits. People will say that that's not fair and they are legally entitled to that money, but guess what, if things keep going the way we are, you won't be getting much of anything out of SS if there's no change.
-Remove funding from the "Affordable" (yeah right) Care Act.
-Cut wages for federal employees across the board. If the monopolist public employee unions refuse to cooperate, too bad, the employees should be given the choice to either work or be fired if they choose to strike. The future of America can't be lost because greedy union thugs won't cooperate.
-Almost completely defund the post office -sell everything and law off all workers except the resources needed to deliver mail to rural areas where UPS or FedEx won't.
-Defund the Department of Housing -they only create hellholes for poor people to live in.
-Defund the Department of Energy- It's a waste of energy, implementing regulations that hurt our economy.
-Defund the Department of Agriculture - Let the market do it's job! We don't need farm subsidies.
-Develop our sources of energy -We have coal, oil, and natural gas, now is the time to develop and use it!

This is my solution to a very urgent problem. I think it could make at least a good size dent in the shortfall.



Okay, let's start here:



Well, if you don't have any better ideas, we have to cut these things. Sure, some greedy thugs who can't see the need will riot, and that's why one thing I wouldn't cut is police protection and prison funding!

The bottom line is that eventually if we don't do anything these programs will "cut themselves" so to speak, and then I imagine the riots would be even worse!



I define evil as people who gain personally by making others suffer. Vladimir Putin is a terrible "President" for the Russian people, and so the fact that he fixes the elections so he can continue to do them harm makes him evil, in my book...but that's not the topic of the thread; I don't want to get too sidetracked.

The Gulf States aren't really relevant to the topic at hand. If you wish to discuss them, make a thread and I promise I will comment.



Uh, why? Is that really important?

Look at that graph. How in the world are we gonna come close to balancing the budget off of defense cuts! We could eliminate the entire department and we wouldn't be even halfway there! And it's the most important department!

A revolt will start because they'll lose even more of the entitlements if we don't cut them now. As I said above, in this crisis situation I describe they'll "cut themselves". The money will run out! We need these cuts.





I mention Russia because they are much more powerful then the Saudis. But yes, the Saudis are run by evil people, too.


I agree with cutting and to countries who don't grant there people the principals of freedom.
I also agree with nuclear power development, but come on, solar power. The last thing we need is to be spending billions and billions of dollars on such inefficient means of power generation. We are talking about how to fix our debt problem, not make it worse!

And come on dude, we have so many fossil fuels here, we might as well use them. It'd put us at a huge disadvantage not to develop them. Also, it could very well help us get out of this situation. Look at the State of Alaska. Because of the oil money there, the only taxes the state has to impose is a tax on oil. Not only that, but there is such a surplus of money in the state treasury every man, women, and child gets a check for over a thousand dollars every year from the government. If we develop oil and even tax it just a little, it could be beneficial for getting us out of this horrible situation!



I find it ironic how progressives are always so concerned about the environment but won't give a damn about our economic future. Sorry, I just had to say that. I don't care if my air is crystal clean if me and my family are living in a little hut! And the bottom line is, no matter what we do, countries like China are going to keep pumping things you wouldn't like into our atmosphere.

The US needs to improve their transport, as mentioned above people are using too much petrol and as a result the government are having to spend billions subsiding it. We pay about 3x as much as America do, it's about £1.50 per litre for petrol. Tax cuts for alternative energy is the way forward[/QUOTE]

Wait, what? You pay three times as much for fuel and you think we should copy you? Wow, you must hate America more then I thought.

[/QUOTE]Now onto taxes, protect the lower classes from tax increases and increase the tax for the mega rich corporations who have profited off the recession. Limit the massive bonuses that CEO's of banks get for taking stupid risks that triggered all of this[/QUOTE]

How do you define what "mega-rich" corporations a profited off the recession? Just curious. Seems like we'd need a lot more criminally negligent IRS workers to sort that out.And how much tax increases are we talking about?

So to balance the budget you've suggested "not big" defense cuts, spending tons of money on solar and wind power, stopping the development of the most valuable resources we have, giving more tax cuts for "alternative energy", cutting farm subsidies (one good point there) and raising taxes on our biggest employers. Am I missing something? Because I'm sure the amount of money these things would save, if any, is even worth mentioning when I asked how we can balance the budget with a $1.1 Trillion deficit. The cuts need to go much, much deeper. Like it or not, our only choice will be to dig into entitlements.



[/QUOTE]As if America is a part of the "free world". I would consider that title well used up by now in North America and I'd be ready to pass it on to the EU[/QUOTE]


I guess you werent looking at places like Greece and Italy, they cut social programs and it wasnt "thugs" rioting, it was the normal pissed off citizen..

Doesnt unemployment benefits put money back into the economy? You act like these unemployed people are sitting on the money, no, as soon as they get it they go out and spend it on food,clothing, rent, utilities, car payments, that kind of thing. I dont know what kind of fantasy world you live in, but you act like its THAT EASY to find a job in this economy.A lot of people losing jobs were in the industry sector, working in these plants and factories, they dont have big college degrees, so after they are layed off they are pretty fucked. Most of them settle for minimum wage jobs, you and me both know you can not support a family on 8 or so dollars a hour. It's people working 2-3 minimum wage jobs who STILL cant sustain themselves and their families. Raise the minimum wage!

Dont cut the park rangers salary, dont cut the security guards salary, cut those guys in Congress making $100,000+ a year salary. Cut the Presidents salary, cut these different departments secretary salaries

I notice NOWHERE in your little debt problem solution paragraph did you say cut defense or stop giving BILLIONS to Israel, Egypt,Pakistan, Gulf States. Why dont we stop building massive bases in Korea, Japan, the Middle East? Those cost millions to operate, WE ARE NOT THE WORLD POLICE! We dont need a shit ton of aircraft carriers, we dont need unmanned fighter jets, we dont need million dollar drones to go bomb innocent Pakistanis.. Though I forgot were the protector of the free world! We must save the world from China and Russia!:rolleyes: Get real my friend, the Cold War is over.

I agree with Harry, tax the fuck out of these big oil companies, these defense contractors who gamble on our soldier's lives, these big Wall Street firms, they are partially to blame for this little economic crisis were going through. I dont see the problem with taxing people like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, do you?

When you lay off all those postal workers, where are they going to work? Most of them dont have high level education, so thats just a couple thousand more people on welfare or unemployment! Thats personal for me because I have atleast 4 people in my family who had 20+ years of work in the postal service. My grandfather retired after 30 or so years in the postal office.

I'd say do away with NASA, except for things like those satellites that track hurricanes,storms, earthquakes, that kinda thing. I know they dont get a lot of federal funds anyway, but still, just do away with it until we are out of this economic ditch.

Cut the department of housing? Where are all those people in those "hellholes" going to go now? Let me tell you a little story... In the 90's-early 2000s CHA(Chicago Housing Authority) tore down all the high rise housing projects, the question was, where are all the people going to go now? So, they started handing out thousands of housing vouchers(section 8), now you have gang wars happening in suburbs that were once proud blue collar working suburbs, places that were 90% white 15-20 years ago now are 80% black/Hispanic. You have drug dealings, home invasions happening, you want that to happen in our little sleepy suburban towns? You have to contain the problem my friend.

Thomas Jefferson? I dont know how you can praise any man who owned slaves...

[TheBigUnit]

I really cant give the solutions nor could the rest of us really since I could assume none of us has a degree in economics that being said we need to reignite our congress and government in general there is so much corruption everywhere that eventually will destroy our governments strong base,

I think we should stop giving aid to many countries like pakistan but other nations still should get our aid

Russia sure is really corrupt putin is a maniac

[Jean Poutine]

I can't believe somebody would have the audacity to suggest that it was our capitalist, conservative principals that accumulated this debt. That frankly is downright idiotic thing to say.Look at the graph of our spending, do Pete's sake! How much of our money is spent on things conservatives like that provide the conditions for a capitalist society to prosper, such as defense, compared to the amount spent on socialist, left wing entitlement programs that you like. The overwhelming majority is spent on the latter. It is things such as welfare and unemployment benefits that you socialists are in favor of that are bankrupting us, those things have increased they're spending the most recently!

You seem to like graphs. I've got one for you.

http://zfacts.com/sites/all/files/image/debt/US-national-debt-GDP.png

See a trend here?

With the exception of Eisenhower, all Republican presidents either held the national debt flat or raised it, and with the exception of Obama (who has to clean up Bush's mess and deal with the recession) and Roosevelt (who presided during WW2), all Democrat presidents had it lowered or stabilized.

You are using what's called a false dichotomy. You assume that American capitalism is inherently good for the economy and that a mixed/social-democratic economy is inherently bad, but that's not true. Look at Norway (albeit fueled by oil profits, granted), Sweden, Finland, Germany, hell Canada too...all countries with a much higher level of state intervention in the economy than the US and all in good shape.

BTW here in Canada it was Jean Chrétien (the source of my username), a Liberal left of center prime minister who presided over the biggest drop of the Canadian domestic debt. It was also Stephen Harper, a Conservative right-wing PM who one would almost mistake as an American due to all the ass-kissing he's giving you guys who raised it the most - to its current level.

To your claim that it's the social programs costing so much money, man, do you have any idea how much wars cost and how much you're still paying for it? Gulf, Afghanistan, Iraq. Look at your own graph. Discretionary spending, aka it goes up but rarely down. You guys are all still paying for it. They were all started by Republicans. Defence isn't just the budget they put on the country tab.

Oh, BTW, why do you guys have Medicare and Medicaid? I don't know the difference between the two. Two regimes for the same thing? That's stupidity if I ever saw it.

You are so blinded by dogmatic trust in your chosen ideology that it's almost ridiculous.

[Sir Suomi]

-Stop giving foreign aid to other countries. They can deal with their own problems, while we've got to deal with ours.
-Remove all non-essential costs to our Defense budget. I know it's important to maintain a strong military, but as for the moment, we're fighting Ragheads with RPG's and AK's.
-Focus on building up the Private Sector, while maintaining a reasonable amount of the Federal intact.
-Remove our dependence on foreign non-renewable resource, while remove some(But not all) restrictions on our own non-renewable resources until we can rely mostly on renewable resources.
-Increase tax rates for Americans within the top 5%, and removing loopholes.
-Govern laws that can convince more businesses to not outsource, and make businesses that are majorly outsourcing to pay a tax fee.

[gabzas331]

-Stop giving foreign aid to other countries. They can deal with their own problems, while we've got to deal with ours

I guess the orphan in DR Congo whose parents were tortured and killed can look after himself with that amazing education he's getting!

[Sugaree]

I guess the orphan in DR Congo whose parents were tortured and killed can look after himself with that amazing education he's getting!

Yeah it's unfortunate that shit like this happens, but we're not responsible for it. There's plenty of other countries that can look after each other. The United States can't foot everyone else's bills.

[Southside]

I guess the orphan in DR Congo whose parents were tortured and killed can look after himself with that amazing education he's getting!

He's not just talking about food aid and humanitarian aid. hes talking about giving 30 billion to well developed countries such as Israel that is going towards bombing innocent children in the Gaza Strip. Hes talking about billions going to Egypt which is currently slaughtering people in the streets. Hes talking about the billion dollars going to Saudi Arabia to fund their military.

I'm all for helping those people over in Africa get a decent education or providing them with a sack of corn or rice so they can feed their families.
What I am not for is our American tax dollars going to well developed countries such as Saudi Arabia and Israel.

[conspiracydude]

Someone may have said this already, but there is no possible way to pay off the debt of the USA. This article explains it pretty well.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/it-is-now-mathematically-impossible-to-pay-off-the-u-s-national-debt

[Human]

Personally, I think you should cut your defence budget, and cut aid to places which don't benefit.
We all need to cut foreign aid, what's the point giving to poor countries with high birthrates who just continue the cycle and become dependent on aid? (but that's off topic)

[Sir Suomi]

I guess the orphan in DR Congo whose parents were tortured and killed can look after himself with that amazing education he's getting!

It happens. And I've got no problem with privately ran organizations that deal with those sorts of things. But when it comes to our own government, we need to deal with issues at home, instead of issues happening across the globe.

[Walter Powers]

See below. Sorry I have a slow connection and it posted the same thing three times.

See below.

I'm certain that Nuclear Power is the way forward, along with some help from America in regards to Nuclear Fusion. Wind power can also be very useful on the coastal areas of America. It's about diversifying your Energy because we've only got 40 years left of Fossil fuels.

That's Alaska, the whole of the US doesn't have reserves of that size. You can't invest millions into something that will be gone in 40 years. The US is going to have a problem with it's fuel source in the future.




So because China does it then it's fine? What's the point in being a superpower if you don't lead on anything, you should really give a damn about the crystal clean air because if sea levels continue to rise it's going to cause havoc for the world. America is going to have to deal with millions of climate change refugees.

Look at Britain, it's predicted that by 2070 more than 150 miles in wards of East Anglia could be under water, we'd have to deal with Flash Floods that would cover the whole of London in 10 ft of water.

Bangladesh would 20% of their land under water, crops wouldn't be able to grow and disease and famine would rapidly increase. I'm concerned about the environment because I don't millions of people do die




Yes, they shouldn't have to subside fuel to such low levels, not only does it cost billions but it's making Americans think that petrol is the way forward when in fact we've know it's pitfalls since 1973



The Massive investment banks who continually gambled money they simply didn't have, you've got companies in Britain such as Amazon and google who haven't paid a single pound in tax. Southern Water are based in London and they still haven't paid any corporation tax, I'm simply asking that the big companies pay the tax they have an obligation to pay




The most valuable resource is in fact water- have you seen Quantum of Solace?

I think their should be defense cuts for Britain, but I know that the ultra right of America like to have very expensive high tech weapons to help kill an afghan family, but let's just say that helps protect us from the evil Arabs!

I also think their should be a tax increase for the upper tax brackets, I'm honestly not sure on the extract rates or numbers because I'm not an economist and I'm much more aware of how the British tax system works.

The one thing I can ensure you is that I would keep away from anything related to Bush Tax cuts for the rich, something which just didn't deliever. Bush was the only US president (who has served 2 terms) who has failed to have double digit job growth over his two terms

I'm certain that Nuclear Power is the way forward, along with some help from America in regards to Nuclear Fusion. Wind power can also be very useful on the coastal areas of America. It's about diversifying your Energy because we've only got 40 years left of Fossil fuels.

I agree that nuclear power is probably the future. However, where'd you get this 40 years left of fossil fuels number? I'm pretty sure 40 years ago the tree huggers were telling us it'd be out by now, so I wouldn't trust it. We're always finding ways to better harvest petroleum, coal, and natural gas.

That's Alaska, the whole of the US doesn't have reserves of that size. You can't invest millions into something that will be gone in 40 years. The US is going to have a problem with it's fuel source in the future.

Your right, proportionally the entire country doesn't have the researches that Alaska can. However, I'm not asking for a government investment here at all, just opening the land up for harvest! And let me tell you, the US is going to be better off then most countries in terms of energy.

[/QUOTE]So because China does it then it's fine? What's the point in being a superpower if you don't lead on anything, you should really give a damn about the crystal clean air because if sea levels continue to rise it's going to cause havoc for the world. America is going to have to deal with millions of climate change refugees.[/QUOTE]

No, I'm not saying because China does it it's fine. I'm saying whatever we do will to reduce pollution will be overshadowed by the disgusting amount of things being pumped into the air over that country. The US leads on lots of things, but not if it's not in our interest. I'm not going to sit here and debate "global warming" with you, but I honestly don't think that that much of the world's climate is impacted by humans. The climate has been changing since the beginning of time.

Anyway, back on topic. The things you've suggested here would do nearly nothing, I repeat nothing, to eliminate the economic shortfall.
I also think their should be a tax increase for the upper tax brackets, I'm honestly not sure on the extract rates or numbers because I'm not an economist and I'm much more aware of how the British tax system works.
You could take every penny of personal income made over $250,000 and every penny made by the top 500 American corporations, and it still wouldn't come close to covering the deficit. And then of course in virtually not time flat you'd have turned America into a third world country. As for the defense department, I've already shown how that is a relatively small portion of what we spend, and also the most vital so you can't really make a gigantic cut from it. So do you have a real solution, or not? I've made my suggestion. I think you are ignoring the inevitable; we have to make some big cuts to entitlements. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when.
I guess you werent looking at places like Greece and Italy, they cut social programs and it wasnt "thugs" rioting, it was the normal pissed off citizen..

Doesnt unemployment benefits put money back into the economy? You act like these unemployed people are sitting on the money, no, as soon as they get it they go out and spend it on food,clothing, rent, utilities, car payments, that kind of thing. I dont know what kind of fantasy world you live in, but you act like its THAT EASY to find a job in this economy.A lot of people losing jobs were in the industry sector, working in these plants and factories, they dont have big college degrees, so after they are layed off they are pretty fucked. Most of them settle for minimum wage jobs, you and me both know you can not support a family on 8 or so dollars a hour. It's people working 2-3 minimum wage jobs who STILL cant sustain themselves and their families. Raise the minimum wage!

Dont cut the park rangers salary, dont cut the security guards salary, cut those guys in Congress making $100,000+ a year salary. Cut the Presidents salary, cut these different departments secretary salaries

I notice NOWHERE in your little debt problem solution paragraph did you say cut defense or stop giving BILLIONS to Israel, Egypt,Pakistan, Gulf States. Why dont we stop building massive bases in Korea, Japan, the Middle East? Those cost millions to operate, WE ARE NOT THE WORLD POLICE! We dont need a shit ton of aircraft carriers, we dont need unmanned fighter jets, we dont need million dollar drones to go bomb innocent Pakistanis.. Though I forgot were the protector of the free world! We must save the world from China and Russia! Get real my friend, the Cold War is over.

I agree with Harry, tax the fuck out of these big oil companies, these defense contractors who gamble on our soldier's lives, these big Wall Street firms, they are partially to blame for this little economic crisis were going through. I dont see the problem with taxing people like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates, do you?

When you lay off all those postal workers, where are they going to work? Most of them dont have high level education, so thats just a couple thousand more people on welfare or unemployment! Thats personal for me because I have atleast 4 people in my family who had 20+ years of work in the postal service. My grandfather retired after 30 or so years in the postal office.

I'd say do away with NASA, except for things like those satellites that track hurricanes,storms, earthquakes, that kinda thing. I know they dont get a lot of federal funds anyway, but still, just do away with it until we are out of this economic ditch.

Cut the department of housing? Where are all those people in those "hellholes" going to go now? Let me tell you a little story... In the 90's-early 2000s CHA(Chicago Housing Authority) tore down all the high rise housing projects, the question was, where are all the people going to go now? So, they started handing out thousands of housing vouchers(section 8), now you have gang wars happening in suburbs that were once proud blue collar working suburbs, places that were 90% white 15-20 years ago now are 80% black/Hispanic. You have drug dealings, home invasions happening, you want that to happen in our little sleepy suburban towns? You have to contain the problem my friend.

Thomas Jefferson? I dont know how you can praise any man who owned slaves...

You haven't suggested a way to solve this debt problem that would be even in the ballpark of effective. Until you do, I see no reason to defend my ideas when you haven't put forward any of yours. Give me a comprehensive solution, and then I'll reply to everything you've said here. I promise.

You seem to like graphs. I've got one for you.

image (http://zfacts.com/sites/all/files/image/debt/US-national-debt-GDP.png)

See a trend here?

With the exception of Eisenhower, all Republican presidents either held the national debt flat or raised it, and with the exception of Obama (who has to clean up Bush's mess and deal with the recession) and Roosevelt (who presided during WW2), all Democrat presidents had it lowered or stabilized.

You are using what's called a false dichotomy. You assume that American capitalism is inherently good for the economy and that a mixed/social-democratic economy is inherently bad, but that's not true. Look at Norway (albeit fueled by oil profits, granted), Sweden, Finland, Germany, hell Canada too...all countries with a much higher level of state intervention in the economy than the US and all in good shape.

BTW here in Canada it was Jean Chrétien (the source of my username), a Liberal left of center prime minister who presided over the biggest drop of the Canadian domestic debt. It was also Stephen Harper, a Conservative right-wing PM who one would almost mistake as an American due to all the ass-kissing he's giving you guys who raised it the most - to its current level.

To your claim that it's the social programs costing so much money, man, do you have any idea how much wars cost and how much you're still paying for it? Gulf, Afghanistan, Iraq. Look at your own graph. Discretionary spending, aka it goes up but rarely down. You guys are all still paying for it. They were all started by Republicans. Defence isn't just the budget they put on the country tab.

Oh, BTW, why do you guys have Medicare and Medicaid? I don't know the difference between the two. Two regimes for the same thing? That's stupidity if I ever saw it.

You are so blinded by dogmatic trust in your chosen ideology that it's almost ridiculous.

I could say the same about yourself.

Again, unless your going to put forth a solution to this problem, or attempt to prove the I'm an alarmist and our debt is not a problem, as you've claimed, I see no reason to waste my time. Do that, and I'll respond to your post.

PS: Medicare is for seniors. Medicaid is for poor people, genius.

-Stop giving foreign aid to other countries. They can deal with their own problems, while we've got to deal with ours.
-Remove all non-essential costs to our Defense budget. I know it's important to maintain a strong military, but as for the moment, we're fighting Ragheads with RPG's and AK's.
-Focus on building up the Private Sector, while maintaining a reasonable amount of the Federal intact.
-Remove our dependence on foreign non-renewable resource, while remove some(But not all) restrictions on our own non-renewable resources until we can rely mostly on renewable resources.
-Increase tax rates for Americans within the top 5%, and removing loopholes.
-Govern laws that can convince more businesses to not outsource, and make businesses that are majorly outsourcing to pay a tax fee.

I commend you with being the first to put forth a comprehensive solution! However, I don't agree with some things, but I agree with a lot.

1.) Won't more taxes hurt the private sector? And you do realize that the top 5% is a very big category? It'd encompass a lot of the upper middle class.
2.)We shouldn't discourage outsourcing. I did a report on this. The US is no longer in the Industrial Age; we need to accept that no matter what we do, it'll be cheaper to build things in China and other up and coming LDCs. We need to focus on having an educated workforce that can work in white collar positions. In fact, it's in our best interest to get cheap labor from places like China so American companies can expand there headquarters and business back home. The bottom line is that if these companies don't outsource their industrial jobs, we won't be able to compete with foreign corporations who do.
3.) Don't you think reducing entitlements and social programs is a big part of the solution? They make up the majority of our budget, we have to cut into them.

Someone may have said this already, but there is no possible way to pay off the debt of the USA. This article explains it pretty well.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/it-is-now-mathematically-impossible-to-pay-off-the-u-s-national-debt

1.) It's hard to take a guy called "conspriracydude" seriously, just saying. You aren't one of those people who think 9/11 was a plan of the government, are you?
2.)I'm not asking how to pay off the debt, just balance the budget and thus stop the increase in the debt.

Personally, I think you should cut your defence budget, and cut aid to places which don't benefit.
We all need to cut foreign aid, what's the point giving to poor countries with high birthrates who just continue the cycle and become dependent on aid? (but that's off topic)

That won't even come close to making a dent. Like I said, we need to dig into entitlements.

[Southside]

[QUOTE=Walter Powers;2463055]

I don't have a complete answer to the debt problem..Though I need to hear your opinions on a few things.

How can we have a educated workforce when college is so expensive? We need to make college more affordable so we cant have a educated workforce, don't you agree?

Your always saying how the big industry is now in Science and computers, most likely your local community college cant provide that type of major, you'll have to go to a 4 year university.

How is the Department of Defense the most vital department?

I don't think you understand how much we spend on war..Your telling me this isn't apart of the debt problem ---> http://costofwar.com/ We spend 26.5 cents of every tax dollar on the military.. http://nationalpriorities.org/ Click on "Where your 2012 taxes went". You don't think

Can you tell me how doing away with the Department of Housing would help the debt program? I just gave you a story of what happened here in Chicago...

[Harry Smith]

You haven't suggested a way to solve this debt problem that would be even in the ballpark of effective. Until you do, I see no reason to defend my ideas when you haven't put forward any of yours. Give me a comprehensive solution, and then I'll reply to everything you've said here. I promise.

Geography Excelled B textbook if your interested but that's liberal propaganda by the damn tree hugging hippies.

One word- Kyoto. The US didn't sign it, I see a lot of back peddling above about global warming. The levels of Carbon dioxide speak for them-self but sure you know more than the biased liberal scientists.

The Answer is for the US to stop supporting any government which claims to be pro American. As mentioned before cut off aid to countries like Pakistan and Egypt, this will help bring down the deficit.

I love how you think higher tax rates for the highest bracket would make america a third world country- America has awfully low tax rates compared to European countries. You need to stop big businesses getting away with tax fraud- they should pay what they owe.

I don't have a 101 page report on this because I've had more pressing things on my mind at the moment and I'm much more in tune with our system over here- all you seem to suggest is cuts which are so deep your going to hit an artery

[britishboy]

firstly cut foreign aid! lower welfare dramatically and pump as much oil out of the ground as possible

[Harry Smith]

firstly cut foreign aid! lower welfare dramatically and pump as much oil out of the ground as possible

So make more people unemployed and starving?

Oil isn't the way forward at all, the US simply can't compete with the Saudi's because they can sell it much cheaper on the international market. Pumping fossil fuels like oil is destroying our world, heck it's going to destroy Britain within the next 60 years.

One word- Nuclear

[Sir Suomi]

I commend you with being the first to put forth a comprehensive solution! However, I don't agree with some things, but I agree with a lot.

1.) Won't more taxes hurt the private sector? And you do realize that the top 5% is a very big category? It'd encompass a lot of the upper middle class.
2.)We shouldn't discourage outsourcing. I did a report on this. The US is no longer in the Industrial Age; we need to accept that no matter what we do, it'll be cheaper to build things in China and other up and coming LDCs. We need to focus on having an educated workforce that can work in white collar positions. In fact, it's in our best interest to get cheap labor from places like China so American companies can expand there headquarters and business back home. The bottom line is that if these companies don't outsource their industrial jobs, we won't be able to compete with foreign corporations who do.
3.) Don't you think reducing entitlements and social programs is a big part of the solution? They make up the majority of our budget, we have to cut into them.




1) Although it may effect those upper middle class citizens, I still think that they should have a slightly higher tax rate than the rest of the 95% of Americans. Bottom line, our government is in need of money, and every penny counts. And people on the higher end of the ladder won't be hurt too bad, the only reason that they say it will hurt the private sector is because they're mad that they've got to only buy 15 new vehicles a year instead of the norm of 20, so why not just fire some employees to make up for the deficit. Hell, look at Bill Gates. One of the richest men on the planet, and he's been the only one to demand that he be taxed higher.
2) But sadly many Americans who only have a high school GED are becoming unemployed due to the fact that companies are outsourcing job opportunities to foreign countries such as China, which is helping their economies grow instead of ours. Right now, we are importing more than we are exporting, which is almost never a good thing.
3) To a degree. I do agree we should limit Welfare. I know there are families out there that are hard working, but still are in need of it, but there are many more out that are just too lazy to get off their asses. And that's what we've got to change. Social Security's age limit should be at minimum 70 years of age. In today's world, people are easily living past their 80's, which is putting a bigger strain on Social Security. But I don't want our government to touch our Veterans. They fought and bled for our country, and taking care of their mental and physical needs is the least we can do.

[britishboy]

So make more people unemployed and starving?

Oil isn't the way forward at all, the US simply can't compete with the Saudi's because they can sell it much cheaper on the international market. Pumping fossil fuels like oil is destroying our world, heck it's going to destroy Britain within the next 60 years.

One word- Nuclear

it will motivate the lazy to work, make people work harder to keep jobs, great for the economy and I didnt say get rid of it just tighten it

oil is liquid gold, South American economies are growing fast because of it, oil is worth so much, when its pumping from your ground, sell it!

nuclear power is brilliant, but wont pay of depts

[Harry Smith]

it will motivate the lazy to work, make people work harder to keep jobs, great for the economy and I didnt say get rid of it just tighten it

oil is liquid gold, South American economies are growing fast because of it, oil is worth so much, when its pumping from your ground, sell it!

nuclear power is brilliant, but wont pay of depts

Do you have evidence of that or is it it more fact-less wank? How it is good if people are starving?

Water is actually liquid gold- Quantum of Solace.

You missed my point- look at the North Sea. Not only is it short term but the arabs sell it for much cheaper meaning that western firms don't make any money. What happens when the oil runs out?

[britishboy]

Do you have evidence of that or is it it more fact-less wank?

look at Kenya, people work in sweat shops for hours to get barely anything because they have no welfare

thats extreme and obviously we have workers rights blah blah blah but the fact is, when you have to, people work, benefits are too comfortable

How it is good if people are starving?
obviously not starving, but drastically cut


Water is actually liquid gold- Quantum of Solace.
I love that film! and very very true, you will die without it, are you suggesting rasing British water prices or selling water to Africa?


You missed my point- look at the North Sea. Not only is it short term but the arabs sell it for much cheaper meaning that western firms don't make any money.
theyre making billions!!! and when we have stuff so valuable, why not sell it?

What happens when the oil runs out?

if Scotland goes independent they'll regret it:D but for us as a union, we will lose a income but will survive, its for paying off our depts, not funding our life style so we should be fine

[Harry Smith]

look at Kenya, people work in sweat shops for hours to get barely anything because they have no welfare

thats extreme and obviously we have workers rights blah blah blah but the fact is, when you have to, people work, benefits are too comfortable


obviously not starving, but drastically cut


I love that film! and very very true, you will die without it, are you suggesting rasing British water prices or selling water to Africa?


theyre making billions!!! and when we have stuff so valuable, why not sell it?



if Scotland goes independent they'll regret it:D but for us as a union, we will lose a income but will survive, its for paying off our depts, not funding our life style so we should be fine

Because it's destroying the planet and it's uneconomic, we have to pay more money to extract it then we would by selling it because western wages are much more expensive along with running costs

[Sir Suomi]

One word- Nuclear

If you can safely deposit the unstable radioactive waste, I'm all in. Until then, I'm a little wary of using nuclear energy.

[Harry Smith]

If you can safely deposit the unstable radioactive waste, I'm all in. Until then, I'm a little wary of using nuclear energy.

Land fills all the way- simply bury it 100ft in the ground and concrete it over. But hopefully we'll work out cold fusion by then which would enable us to produce about 10000 time the power of the current nuclear stations without any emissions

[Sir Suomi]

Land fills all the way- simply bury it 100ft in the ground and concrete it over. But hopefully we'll work out cold fusion by then which would enable us to produce about 10000 time the power of the current nuclear stations without any emissions

See, I don't want to be putting that stuff in my ground. That stuff emits highly toxic radioactive shit everywhere if it's not contained, and I think the half life on most of that stuff is a few thousand years, correct me if I'm wrong. And if the concrete would become unstable, and not be able to hold it, then we get major ecological effects on the environment, which is definitely not something I want. But other than that, I am all for the development of nuclear energy.

[Southside]

firstly cut foreign aid! lower welfare dramatically and pump as much oil out of the ground as possible

Why invest in something that's going to be basically gone by the time our kids are about 50-60 years old? I'm not really for nuclear power, its too risky and what are we going to do with all the spent fuel rods? Yes, you can bury it deep below the ground in concrete casings but even those don't do the job for that long.

Contrary to the popular Conservative belief, not everyone on Welfare is a lazy bum. You truly have hard working families out their who just need a little assistance to get by. Raise the minimum wage, I don't think its right that in some places in America, welfare pays more than minimum wage or a teachers salary. That's deterring people from getting into the work force, a lot of these "lazy bums' are saying "Why work and I can sit at home making more money than the minimum wage?".

[Harry Smith]

See, I don't want to be putting that stuff in my ground. That stuff emits highly toxic radioactive shit everywhere if it's not contained, and I think the half life on most of that stuff is a few thousand years, correct me if I'm wrong. And if the concrete would become unstable, and not be able to hold it, then we get major ecological effects on the environment, which is definitely not something I want. But other than that, I am all for the development of nuclear energy.

I'll agree that their is a pitfall within nuclear power. I know that the fuel rods have to be encased in Concrete and steel to begin within to protect against damage. You could always try and recycle the spend fuel, it's just it produces such a high amount of Energy and it we'll be able to do it in 50 years time

[britishboy]

Because it's destroying the planet and it's uneconomic, we have to pay more money to extract it then we would by selling it because western wages are much more expensive along with running costs

forget about hippie crap how is it more
expensive to get out then to sell? can you prove that? the wages are a small dip out of the profit

Why invest in something that's going to be basically gone by the time our kids are about 50-60 years old?
billions profit maybe? trillions of national dept, every little helps!
I'm not really for nuclear power, its too risky and what are we going to do with all the spent fuel rods? Yes, you can bury it deep below the ground in concrete casings but even those don't do the job for that long.
live in a eco house then, power has to come from somewhere! maybe send them into space?
Raise the minimum wage
'cos thats going to help the economy?

[Harry Smith]

forget about hippie crap how is it more
expensive to get out then to sell? can you prove that? the wages are a small dip out of the profit

Wages are the only costs of production, anyone with a grasp of economics knows that. You can call me a hippie as much as you want, it doesn't add anything to your argument- it just makes you look stupid. I'm surprised you didn't call me a liberal

The west has moved away from production in the 1980's, especially the primary sector (extraction of resources).

You end up using 4-5 barrels of water to extract one barrel of oil- we've already got a water crisis. We've reached Peak Oil meaning that extraction is going to go down, with that less high quality oil will be available and prices will soar.

What's the point in investing billions into something that will be gone in 50 years

[britishboy]

Wages are the only costs of production, anyone with a grasp of economics knows that. You can call me a hippie as much as you want, it doesn't add anything to your argument- it just makes you look stupid. I'm surprised you didn't call me a liberal

The west has moved away from production in the 1980's, especially the primary sector (extraction of resources).

You end up using 4-5 barrels of water to extract one barrel of oil- we've already got a water crisis. We've reached Peak Oil meaning that extraction is going to go down, with that less high quality oil will be available and prices will soar.

What's the point in investing billions into something that will be gone in 50 years
because it will gain billions profit! yes less profit than other countries, but theres still loads of profit for us, Scotlands whole independence campaign is biased on the north sea oil!

[Harry Smith]

because it will gain billions profit! yes less profit than other countries, but theres still loads of profit for us, Scotlands whole independence campaign is biased on the north sea oil!

Wait- Scotland's independence campaign is based on giving power to Scotland. I assume you've never been up their because trust me that's not the reason Alex Samond is getting independence- he's getting independence to make Scotland independence. It's not the get Scotland Oil campaign.

Billions profit? Sure. North Sea oil extraction rates have been going down over the last two years, people are dieing trying to get to the rigs and their catching on fire every 3 months. You want to continue this?

If we keep pumping more your going to have flash floods in London, sea levels will rise. Fossil Fuels are not the way forward

[britishboy]

Wait- Scotland's independence campaign is based on giving power to Scotland. I assume you've never been up their because trust me that's not the reason Alex Samond is getting independence- he's getting independence to make Scotland independence. It's not the get Scotland Oil campaign.

Billions profit? Sure. North Sea oil extraction rates have been going down over the last two years, people are dieing trying to get to the rigs and their catching on fire every 3 months. You want to continue this?

If we keep pumping more your going to have flash floods in London, sea levels will rise. Fossil Fuels are not the way forward

yes thats independence, I've been following the debate closely and samond himself has said that their economy will be based on oil, loads of anti English stuff and then that he wants to be like Norway

yes oil runs out, its like selling anything, once its gone its gone, America has tones of oil, and this thread is Americas national dept so do you not think they should extract it?

oh global warming, Britains a bit chilly, it would be nice if ut warmed up;)

[Harry Smith]

yes thats independence, I've been following the debate closely and samond himself has said that their economy will be based on oil, loads of anti English stuff and then that he wants to be like Norway

yes oil runs out, its like selling anything, once its gone its gone, America has tones of oil, and this thread is Americas national dept so do you not think they should extract it?

oh global warming, Britains a bit chilly, it would be nice if ut warmed up;)

You made it sound like the whole Scottish independence debate was about oil- it's about Scotland wanting it's own control over it's country- that includes economy, taxes, education and defense- not just oil.

No, they shouldn't extract anymore. It'd damaging the Earth. I certainly doubt you'll be happy when he have climate change refugees on our doorstep because at this rate over 25% of Bangladesh will be flooded by 2050. We need to move away from our reliance on oil

Try telling that to the people in London or East Anglia when we have to walk through 12ft of water

[Capto]

For reference:

http://vrstudio.buffalo.edu/~depape/warming/100meter.html

:P

[britishboy]

You made it sound like the whole Scottish independence debate was about oil- it's about Scotland wanting it's own control over it's country- that includes economy, taxes, education and defense- not just oil.

No, they shouldn't extract anymore. It'd damaging the Earth. I certainly doubt you'll be happy when he have climate change refugees on our doorstep because at this rate over 25% of Bangladesh will be flooded by 2050. We need to move away from our reliance on oil

Try telling that to the people in London or East Anglia when we have to walk through 12ft of water

oil will be the core of their economy and is high campaign for independence, but they can't think or confirm anything eles, Pound, Euro or own currency, shared military or no military

oil will run out before then and then nuclear power with its waste being shoot into space, everything will be fine, there are plans and theries to mine the moon

[Harry Smith]

oil will be the core of their economy and is high campaign for independence, but they can't think or confirm anything eles, Pound, Euro or own currency, shared military or no military

oil will run out before then and then nuclear power with its waste being shoot into space, everything will be fine, there are plans and theries to mine the moon

Shared military was never a option, Samon is hardly going to reveal his cards now- you don't release your manifesto until you need to

Shoot into space? That's the worst option, it would cost so much. Depleted fuel rods aren't very light and would need a lot of runs to get it all up their

[britishboy]

Shared military was never a option, Samon is hardly going to reveal his cards now- you don't release your manifesto until you need to

Shoot into space? That's the worst option, it would cost so much. Depleted fuel rods aren't very light and would need a lot of runs to get it all up their

actually everything hasn't been decided and is in debate, the vote is coming up and no details I've read is a real problem, people want confidence in a independent Scotland, they also want the pound, the Government and EU has so no, they would have to have the Euro and samond is saying it's a English trick to try and damage their campaign, a shared military is in debate because it weakens the 'stronger together' argument

ok where are these rods going to live once its the main power source?

[Harry Smith]

actually everything hasn't been decided and is in debate, the vote is coming up and no details I've read is a real problem, people want confidence in a independent Scotland, they also want the pound, the Government and EU has so no, they would have to have the Euro and samond is saying it's a English trick to try and damage their campaign, a shared military is in debate because it weakens the 'stronger together' argument

ok where are these rods going to live once its the main power source?

You can recycle the majority as a fuel source, their is still a lot of U235 on them meaning they have value. That's what we do at the moment in the UK. The tiny bit that is left over is simply buried in deep geological storage

[britishboy]

You can recycle the majority as a fuel source, their is still a lot of U235 on them meaning they have value. That's what we do at the moment in the UK.

clever!

The tiny bit that is left over is simply buried in deep geological storage

where? don't ruin the UK.... maybe pay Africa to take it like everything eles, were a too small county to put that rubbish in the ground, building up over time

[Harry Smith]

clever!



where? don't ruin the UK.... maybe pay Africa to take it like everything eles, were a too small county to put that rubbish in the ground, building up over time

Ever heard of Landfills?

[britishboy]

Ever heard of Landfills?

yes horrible things, incinerators are better and stuff as toxic as nuclear waste can't build up in Britain, but sent to Africa, people are moaning about fracking in Sussex, let alone nuclear waste in concrete bunkers!

[Capto]

yes horrible things, incinerators are better and stuff as toxic as nuclear waste can't build up in Britain, but sent to Africa, people are moaning about fracking in Sussex, let alone nuclear waste in concrete bunkers!

Africa's a large place you know. Where in specific would you send it?

As per the initial topic, I think that the OP is nothing more than an unfortunate and unlikely overexaggerated situation.

[britishboy]

Africa's a large place you know. Where in specific would you send it?

As per the initial topic, I think that the OP is nothing more than an unfortunate and unlikely overexaggerated situation.

who cares? somewhere cheap

actually he has a point, things could turn fast, and the dept wont pay itself

[Harry Smith]

who cares? somewhere cheap

actually he has a point, things could turn fast, and the dept wont pay itself

I care.

We've been in debt since 1945

[Capto]

actually he has a point, things could turn fast, and the dept wont pay itself

The China and Russia stuff, though, smells immensely of bullshit. Can't imagine why.

And yeah, 'Africa' won't be happy as just Britain's dumping ground, ya know.

[britishboy]

I care.

We've been in debt since 1945
about Africa more than Britain?

and we lost an empire! hopefully things will change soon, after the cuts I have faith
The China and Russia stuff, though, smells immensely of bullshit. Can't imagine why.

And yeah, 'Africa' won't be happy as just Britain's dumping ground, ya know.

what China and Russia stuff?

they don't care about their country, only the pay check they receive, it will actually be good for their country

[Harry Smith]

about Africa more than Britain?

and we lost an empire! hopefully things will change soon, after the cuts I have faith

I care about doing what is morally right, there's a simple solution- one that Britain and the US have already implement. There is also a floor in your plan- it's very hard to transport spend nuclear fuel rods

[britishboy]

I care about doing what is morally right, there's a simple solution- one that Britain and the US have already implement. There is also a floor in your plan- it's very hard to transport spend nuclear fuel rods

dumping them here is the same as there

true but its harder when a we run out of room for concrete bunkers

[Jean Poutine]

I could say the same about yourself.

Again, unless your going to put forth a solution to this problem, or attempt to prove the I'm an alarmist and our debt is not a problem, as you've claimed, I see no reason to waste my time. Do that, and I'll respond to your post.

PS: Medicare is for seniors. Medicaid is for poor people, genius.

Cute.

I'll remind you that you opened the door wide open for me for this line of argumentation, by setting up that obvious false dichotomy, and when I called you on your bullshit, you now run away crying like a child who doesn't want to share his toys.

Secondly, that question was meant as friendly banter. I could have Googled the answer in two seconds but I chose to ask you to dispel animosity. Instead you come forward with a condescending little remark that frankly, insults you more than me.

It is my time that is lost arguing with you and not the other way around.