Police kill teen graffiti artist

[Southside]

A Miami Beach teen died Tuesday after being shocked with a taser in the chest after police spotted him painting graffiti on an empty building.

Israel Hernandez, 18, was a skateboarder and artist who "wanted to change the world somehow through art,” his sister, Offir Hernandez, told the Miami Herald.

Miami Beach Police said they spotted Hernandez tagging an abandoned fast-food restaurant just after 5 a.m Tuesday morning near 71st Street at Collins Avenue.

A chase ensued involving "more than half a dozen" officers, according to New Times.

"During the foot pursuit, the subject encountered officers face to face... and ignored officers' commands to stop," MBPD Chief Raymond Martinez said in a statement. "In order to affect his arrest, an officer deployed his conducted electrical weapon (TASER)."

Hernandez's friends Felix Fernandez and Thiago Souza said they were serving as lookouts when he was spotted by police. They told WSVN officers shoved Hernandez against a wall, then high-fived as he lay motionless.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/israel-hernandez-taser_n_3722420.html

Watch the video also, witnesses said the officers were high fiving and congragulating each other as the teen was lying motionless on the ground.

One reason I proudly play the N.W.A song "Fuck The Police" on my phone whenever I see a Cop.

[Lost in the Echo]

That's fucking sick. Makes all police officers look like pathetic pieces of shit. They're disgraceful.

But I don't really agree with you hating on all police officers. There are really good ones out there, who are genuine, and do their job the way they're supposed to.
Lowlifes like the ones you mentioned, just give the whole police force a bad reputation.

[PinkFloyd]

This is an awful story, don't get me wrong, but it really gives the police a bad rep. How often do you hear about the police officers that do good things? You don't because it never gets covered.

[Zelder]

Those police officers should be the ones lying motionless on the ground!

[laurakoller0815]

thats really horrible for the parents and other relatives but in other countries suspects get treaten more brutal then in th us.

[Synyster Shadows]

That's excessive and gives police all over the US a bad name. I mean, sure the teen may have ignored their commands to stop but why would the officers high five? That's just wrong.

[Jess]

That is sick, but it makes all police officers look bad :/

[Vocabulous]

they shouldn't have been congradulating each other and they definitely shouldn't have used a taser but for fucks sake stop when the officers tell you too.

[CharlieHorse]

The police are like legal terrorists in a way.
Of course not all, but this is just sick.

[LouBerry]

This is the world we live in. :/

[Pacaveli]

I see no reason of why the teen got tazed, he didn't even run.

[tovaris]

horible

[Harry Smith]

I saw a article saying that the manufacturer of Taser weapons told the police not to aim at the chest because it can lead to a cardiac arrest

[Camazotz]

This is an awful story, don't get me wrong, but it really gives the police a bad rep. How often do you hear about the police officers that do good things? You don't because it never gets covered.

But I don't really agree with you hating on all police officers. There are really good ones out there, who are genuine, and do their job the way they're supposed to.
Lowlifes like the ones you mentioned, just give the whole police force a bad reputation.

Exactly. These officers are the exception, they don't represent all police officers. This is an unfortunate incident that occurred because of irresponsible people in positions of power.

[teen.jpg]

:( This is sad...

[Sugaree]

One reason I proudly play the N.W.A song "Fuck The Police" on my phone whenever I see a Cop.

http://dump.fm/images/20130620/1371742896360-dumpfm-girlnymph-now-thats-what-I-call-EDGY.png

I'm gonna typecast all cops as being cold blooded killers when only a few are like that! Look at me being a rebel!

[Southside]

image (http://dump.fm/images/20130620/1371742896360-dumpfm-girlnymph-now-thats-what-I-call-EDGY.png)

I'm gonna typecast all cops as being cold blooded killers when only a few are like that! Look at me being a rebel!

Not all police officers are corrupt, your right, but its a few too many.

Im tired of seeing new stories like "Police kill 95 year old war vet armed with walking cane", I'm tired of seeing innocent young lives being taken by people who are trying to "serve and protect". I'm tired of seeing videos of police slamming people to the ground or videos of police pepper spraying 80 year old ladies. I'm tired of walking outside my house and having a massive police camera staring down at me while standing on the corner to catch the bus. I'm tired of being told by police officers that I cant stand on a public sidewalk. I feel more threatened by the police force than I do "terrorism" or "gang members". I do believe its even a statistic that I am more likely to be killed by police brutality than a terrorist attack...

Its too many cases of police brutality, thats all I'm saying...

[marrisa]

I saw the report.He was vandalizing someone elses property.That is a crime.When the police told him to stop,he ran.They used a taser.It is horrible this boy died but it seems like he put himself in that situation.I feel so bad for his family and friends but what were the police supposed to do?

[Southside]

I saw the report.He was vandalizing someone elses property.That is a crime.When the police told him to stop,he ran.They used a taser.It is horrible this boy died but it seems like he put himself in that situation.I feel so bad for his family and friends but what were the police supposed to do?

Yeah but he didnt pose a threat to the police force, your not even supose to aim a taser at someones chest. Also, the police were high fiving and congragulating after the teen was on the ground motionless, thats right?

[handle with care]

this is just saddening

[Stronk Serb]

Bah, two guys got arrested here and beaten up just because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's the same as in the US. But nobody cares about graffiti, I saw a cop almost shooting a corner drug dealer. I ran to cover, not knowing what is going on. Only when I heard "Got you motherfucker!" I got out and saw that the dealer got arrested.

[Professional Russian]

I swear tasers were supposed to be non lethal.

[britishboy]

I dont see the problem
he committed a crime
he ran away
persuaded by police
warned by police
police deployed a non leathel weapon to subdue and arrest him
unfortunately the tazer went wrong, but the police officer was in the right, if anyone was to blame it was the criminal that run!

[Sugaree]

I dont see the problem
he committed a crime
he ran away
persuaded by police
warned by police
police deployed a non leathel weapon to subdue and arrest him
unfortunately the tazer went wrong, but the police officer was in the right, if anyone was to blame it was the criminal that run!

The tazer didn't "go wrong". If it "went wrong", it wouldn't have deployed in the first place. Don't be an idiot.

[britishboy]

The tazer didn't "go wrong". If it "went wrong", it wouldn't have deployed in the first place. Don't be an idiot.

then why did a non leathel weapon kill? something went wrong, thats commonsense and you do now the deployment is different to the thing that gives the shock right?

[Sugaree]

then why did a non leathel weapon kill? something went wrong, thats commonsense and you do now the deployment is different to the thing that gives the shock right?

Why do baseball bats kill people? Why do knives kill people? These are nonlethal weapons, so saying that it "went wrong" because it killed someone is a fallacy.

If a tazer is aimed directly at the chest, what the fuck do you think is gonna happen? DING DONG IT'S GONNA HIT YOUR HEART. And what happens when electrical volts hit your heart? You go into cardiac arrest. Is it really this hard for a modern day 14 year old to understand this?

[Southside]

I dont see the problem
he committed a crime
he ran away
persuaded by police
warned by police
police deployed a non leathel weapon to subdue and arrest him
unfortunately the tazer went wrong, but the police officer was in the right, if anyone was to blame it was the criminal that run!

You act like this teen was committing a murder or assault, he was doing graffiti for gods sake! Your not even suppose to aim a taser at someones chest, even the manufacturers warn against aiming the weapon in the chest area. http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/22/taser.advice/index.html

So the police officer is right for misusing a weapon? Get real man...

[britishboy]

You act like this teen was committing a murder or assault, he was doing graffiti for gods sake! Your not even suppose to aim a taser at someones chest, even the manufacturers warn against aiming the weapon in the chest area. http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/22/taser.advice/index.html

So the police officer is right for misusing a weapon? Get real man...

he was running from police, if the police officer was using it wrong it's his fault but he still should have used the tazer, a gun? no. maybe more warning, in Britain policeman armed with a tazer (most dont even have a tazer) will warn you a stupid amount of times, but your rules are relaxed so the only thing the cop done wrong is incorrect use of a tazer, which could be by accident(aiming a tazer at a running man isn't easy) so the officer shouldnt be held responsible

[Southside]

he was running from police, if the police officer was using it wrong it's his fault but he still should have used the tazer, a gun? no. maybe more warning, in Britain policeman armed with a tazer (most dont even have a tazer) will warn you a stupid amount of times, but your rules are relaxed so the only thing the cop done wrong is incorrect use of a tazer, which could be by accident(aiming a tazer at a running man isn't easy) so the officer shouldnt be held responsible

Why? The teenager was unarmed, how was he a threat to the police? He wasn't throwing any punches or harming the police either. I agree, the teen was wrong for running and spray painting the building but no one deserves to die from police negligence.

[Emerald Dream]

This has turned into a debate, even though it is actually news story. I am moving it over here...

VT Daily Chronicle :arrow: Ramblings Of The Wise

[britishboy]

Why? The teenager was unarmed, how was he a threat to the police? He wasn't throwing any punches or harming the police either. I agree, the teen was wrong for running and spray painting the building but no one deserves to die from police negligence.

no but he was running when warned not to, thats why he was tazered to stop and detain him, he didn't deserve to die, he wasn't ment to, he was ment to have a spasm and go in front of a judge

[Sugaree]

no but he was running when warned not to, thats why he was tazered to stop and detain him, he didn't deserve to die, he wasn't ment to, he was ment to have a spasm and go in front of a judge

Yet to quote you

"I don't see the problem"

Where, then, is the problem? Is the problem with the police officer who should have aimed at an area not including the chest? Is the problem with the teenager who was most likely afraid and, by instinct, ran? Either way, a kid is dead and you don't see anything wrong with it.

[Kameraden]

Am I the only one who feels no pity for him? Hell, I congratulate the police officers responsible for this "poor kids" death. He's a criminal -- stop feeling pity for him. He made his choices, and made them poorly, and died; end of story. I'm so sick of you people sympathizing with criminals and feeling anger when criminals are punished.

[Sugaree]

Am I the only one who feels no pity for him? Hell, I congratulate the police officers responsible for this "poor kids" death. He's a criminal -- stop feeling pity for him. He made his choices, and made them poorly, and died; end of story. I'm so sick of you people sympathizing with criminals and feeling anger when criminals are punished.

He could have been punished differently. I don't agree with what he did, nor am I defending it. But this could have been handled differently. He didn't need to die. That's where my sympathies lie. I don't hold sympathy for criminals just because they're criminals, I hold sympathy for the ones who are not lucky enough to get their day in court. That is where my problem is.

[britishboy]

Yet to quote you

"I don't see the problem"

Where, then, is the problem? Is the problem with the police officer who should have aimed at an area not including the chest? Is the problem with the teenager who was most likely afraid and, by instinct, ran? Either way, a kid is dead and you don't see anything wrong with it.

I'm sure the kid was afraid, being afraid does not mean you should avoid saying hello to a judge

where could he shoot?
where then the head? no, no clothes to latch on to and worse affects if latches on

the arms? no, theyre waving around, hes running as fast as he can

the legs? same as above

the death is unfortunate but no action should and hasent been takern, theyre actually giving more officers in Britain tasers because theyre so good!

Am I the only one who feels no pity for him? Hell, I congratulate the police officers responsible for this "poor kids" death. He's a criminal -- stop feeling pity for him. He made his choices, and made them poorly, and died; end of story. I'm so sick of you people sympathizing with criminals and feeling anger when criminals are punished.

thank god someone said it:D he had appropriate force applied that ended badly

[pieman10]

You people dont understand how tasers work do you?
The amps and voltage affect the human body in totally different ways.

In the UK ( and im guessing this is standard everywhere) the police try to aim the taser at 2 spaced out points, the chest and a limb such as the leg.
This will affect the muscles between these points resulting in the target being brought down.

As for the teens death, its unfortunate but actions have consequences.
The teen ran multiple times when asked to stop by the police, failure to stop results in consequences.

As for the high five, imagine if you just chased down a guy that had been ruining your area, youd finally caught him and arrested him.
Youd feel proud, the police are simply celebrating the fact that teamwork has resulted in bringing a criminal to justice.

Again the death is unfortunate but everyone is overeating with the police " brutality ", things go wrong, the police cant politely walk up to every criminal and say

" hello sir, do you have any medical issues that may prevent me from arresting you using approved police procedures? "

[Sugaree]

I'm sure the kid was afraid, being afraid does not mean you should avoid saying hello to a judge

It's natural instinct to run away when you're frightened. He knew he was doing something against the law, and he knew that if he were caught, it would have been by surprise. Obviously natural instinct overcomes common sense in this situation, as unfortunate as it seems. I'm sure the kid would have had no problem going in front of a judge, but I can certainly see where he was justified in running.

[britishboy]

It's natural instinct to run away when you're frightened. He knew he was doing something against the law, and he knew that if he were caught, it would have been by surprise. Obviously natural instinct overcomes common sense in this situation, as unfortunate as it seems. I'm sure the kid would have had no problem going in front of a judge, but I can certainly see where he was justified in running.

your 19 right? speed right past a cop in your car, ignore him and when your caught tell him 'natural instinct' he will give you the same response

it was stupid to run and actions have consequences, appropriate force was used, shall we give the criminals a hug because they may be scared?

you people
dont understand how tasers work do
you?
The amps and voltage affect the
human body in totally different ways.
In the uk ( and im guessing this is
standard everywhere) the police try
to aim the taser at 2 spaced out
points, the chest and a limb such as
the leg.
This will affect the muscles between
these points resulting in the target
being brought down.
As for the teens death, its
unfortunate but actions have
consequences.
The teen ran multiple times when
asked to stop by the police, failure to
stop results in consequences.
As for the high five, imagine if you
just chased down a guy that had
been ruining your area, youd finally
caught him and arrested him.
Youd feel proud, the police are simply
celebrating the fact that teamwork
has resulted in bringing a criminal to
justice.
Again the death is unfortunate but
everyone is overeating with the police
" brutality ", things go wrong, the
police cant politely walk up to every
criminal and say
" hello sir, do you have any medical
issues that may prevent me from
arresting you using approved police
procedures? "
yes yes yes!!!!

[Sugaree]

your 19 right? speed right past a cop in your car, ignore him and when your caught tell him 'natural instinct' he will give you the same response

That's a completely different situation. Now you're just grasping for some relevance in the debate now. If I sped past a cop car without knowing he was there, how would I defend myself? By being honest and saying I didn't know he was there. Of course, that would be AFTER I pulled myself over to the side of the road.

You see, this is where I don't get you. You bring up completely different situations to try to explain your point, and it doesn't help clarify anything. The situation you just gave was fucking stupid. Pardon my French, but you clearly need to rethink your own debate skills before continuing.

[britishboy]

That's a completely different situation. Now you're just grasping for some relevance in the debate now. If I sped past a cop car without knowing he was there, how would I defend myself? By being honest and saying I didn't know he was there. Of course, that would be AFTER I pulled myself over to the side of the road.

You see, this is where I don't get you. You bring up completely different situations to try to explain your point, and it doesn't help clarify anything. The situation you just gave was fucking stupid. Pardon my French, but you clearly need to rethink your own debate skills before continuing.

its exactly the same concept, use your brain and talk to the police, dont try to run... especially when warned! and btw the police can stop your car by force, why eles would anyone stop
tell me if you agree or disagree with that these are right
1) a man commits an offence
2) the officer should arreste him
3) he decides to try his luck and runs
4) police try to apprehend him and give a warning to stop
5) after failing to stop and the possibly of him escaping justice, the officer deploys a non leathel weapon to subdue him
6) it inconveniently strikes his chest as he couldnt have hit anywhere eles
7) it killes the man running

do you see how the officer was in the right?

Bah, two guys got arrested here and beaten up just because they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. It's the same as in the US. But nobody cares about graffiti, I saw a cop almost shooting a corner drug dealer. I ran to cover, not knowing what is going on. Only when I heard "Got you motherfucker!" I got out and saw that the dealer got arrested.

wow!! do all you cops have guns or is it like Britain? a few highly trained police marksman (armed police)

[Sugaree]

its exactly the same concept, use your brain and talk to the police, dont try to run... especially when warned! and btw the police can stop your car by force, why eles would anyone stop
tell me if you agree or disagree with that these are right
1) a man commits an offence
2) the officer should arreste him
3) he decides to try his luck and runs
4) police try to apprehend him and give a warning to stop
5) after failing to stop and the possibly of him escaping justice, the officer deploys a non leathel weapon to subdue him
6) it inconveniently strikes his chest as he couldnt have hit anywhere eles
7) it killes the man running

do you see how the officer was in the right?


I'm not debating whether or not the officer is in the right or not. In the situation you present, the officer was in the right, yes. However, this topic is looking at the situation in hindsight. That's all we can do until we're actually in the situation ourselves. I wouldn't necessarily run from a police officer unless I knew for a fact I was doing something wrong. But that would be out of fear of then getting a record attached to my name.

[Smeagol]

I don't agree that the policemen ought to have killed the kid. However, a taser is not meant to be lethal... if they had used a gun, that's sick, but a taser is meant to be a safe method of immobilizing a person.

[Sir Suomi]

I'd have to agree with BritishBoy. The police officer used a non-lethal weapon to subdue a subject who would have otherwise avoided the consequence of his illegal activities. It's a shame that the suspect was killed, but it was only due to his own actions. The police officer was simply doing his duty, which is to apprehend individuals, and to use the appropriate tools to make sure that goal is achieved. As for the high-fives, although they may have been "unprofessional", you've got to remember, we're dealing with real people enforcing the law, not a RoboCop or something like that. They're naturally going to feel proud in the fact that they had subdued the individual, but I'm guessing the high-fives stopped after the individual was pronounced dead.

[Gigablue]

Why did the police use a taser in the first place. The suspect was running away, so the logical thing to do is chase him. He was outnumbered, so the police could have caught him quite easily on foot or using their cars.

A taser is a nonlethal weapon, keyword weapon. You don't need to use weapons on a fleeing suspect. They should be saved for suspects who either pose an immediate danger to the police or the public. The police should always try to deescalate the situation, and in this case, they didn't.

In short, the issue is not that they used the taser incorrectly, it's that they used it on a nonviolent suspect, when they could have just chased him instead.

[pieman10]

Why did the police use a taser in the first place. The suspect was running away, so the logical thing to do is chase him. He was outnumbered, so the police could have caught him quite easily on foot or using their cars.

A taser is a nonlethal weapon, keyword weapon. You don't need to use weapons on a fleeing suspect. They should be saved for suspects who either pose an immediate danger to the police or the public. The police should always try to deescalate the situation, and in this case, they didn't.

In short, the issue is not that they used the taser incorrectly, it's that they used it on a nonviolent suspect, when they could have just chased him instead.

How far would you be willing to chase someone? The longer they are running the bigger the chance of them getting away.

The taser was used as a solution to end the chase quickly before the suspect got away or the police got too tired.

[Sugaree]

Why did the police use a taser in the first place. The suspect was running away, so the logical thing to do is chase him. He was outnumbered, so the police could have caught him quite easily on foot or using their cars.

A taser is a nonlethal weapon, keyword weapon. You don't need to use weapons on a fleeing suspect. They should be saved for suspects who either pose an immediate danger to the police or the public. The police should always try to deescalate the situation, and in this case, they didn't.

In short, the issue is not that they used the taser incorrectly, it's that they used it on a nonviolent suspect, when they could have just chased him instead.

Ok, I'll just assume that every police officer I come into contact with is a super human and can run or pursue me for long distances without getting tired.

[Southside]

Am I the only one who feels no pity for him? Hell, I congratulate the police officers responsible for this "poor kids" death. He's a criminal -- stop feeling pity for him. He made his choices, and made them poorly, and died; end of story. I'm so sick of you people sympathizing with criminals and feeling anger when criminals are punished.

Criminal? Stop trying to demonize this young artist.. You make it sound like this kid was going around shooting people and holding up banks. Under Florida law its a couple hundred dollar fine for graffiti, it was a petty crime.

The teen wasn't armed, he wasn't posing a threat to law enforcement, its natural human instinct to run when someone is after you.

Why do you congratulate the police officers for misusing a taser on a unarmed, non violent teenager?

[Kameraden]

Criminal? Stop trying to demonize this young artist.. You make it sound like this kid was going around shooting people and holding up banks. Under Florida law its a couple hundred dollar fine for graffiti, it was a petty crime.

The teen wasn't armed, he wasn't posing a threat to law enforcement, its natural human instinct to run when someone is after you.

Why do you congratulate the police officers for misusing a taser on a unarmed, non violent teenager?

Artist? Please. He's a petty criminal, and if you let him go unscathed, you send a message which rings "crime goes unpunished." There need to b deaths to instill fear and keep the masses in check. There's a fine line between order and revolt, and it's been managed well thus far.

If he run, he makes is choice. He's vandalizing property, and obviously disrespects authority. Perhaps he knows respect now -- oh, wait.

[pieman10]

Criminal? Stop trying to demonize this young artist.. You make it sound like this kid was going around shooting people and holding up banks. Under Florida law its a couple hundred dollar fine for graffiti, it was a petty crime.

The teen wasn't armed, he wasn't posing a threat to law enforcement, its natural human instinct to run when someone is after you.

Why do you congratulate the police officers for misusing a taser on a unarmed, non violent teenager?

He's running isnt he?
For all they knew he could have had a few pistols, rifles, grenades.
Unlikely but possible.

By running he gets himself into deeper trouble, the law demands respect and this teenager gave none.

And for the last time, it wasnt misuse of a taser.

[Jakers61]

A Miami Beach teen died Tuesday after being shocked with a taser in the chest after police spotted him painting graffiti on an empty building.

Israel Hernandez, 18, was a skateboarder and artist who "wanted to change the world somehow through art,” his sister, Offir Hernandez, told the Miami Herald.

Miami Beach Police said they spotted Hernandez tagging an abandoned fast-food restaurant just after 5 a.m Tuesday morning near 71st Street at Collins Avenue.

A chase ensued involving "more than half a dozen" officers, according to New Times.

"During the foot pursuit, the subject encountered officers face to face... and ignored officers' commands to stop," MBPD Chief Raymond Martinez said in a statement. "In order to affect his arrest, an officer deployed his conducted electrical weapon (TASER)."

Hernandez's friends Felix Fernandez and Thiago Souza said they were serving as lookouts when he was spotted by police. They told WSVN officers shoved Hernandez against a wall, then high-fived as he lay motionless.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/07/israel-hernandez-taser_n_3722420.html

Watch the video also, witnesses said the officers were high fiving and congragulating each other as the teen was lying motionless on the ground.

One reason I proudly play the N.W.A song "Fuck The Police" on my phone whenever I see a Cop.



Every one is always on the side of the criminal. It's not the police that were fucked up it was the jackass trying to "change the world" through ILLEGAL graffiti. Graffiti is illegal and is vandalism. Great way to change the world huh? You idiots who are on the side of this stupid fuck. Break the law and get in trouble, that's how it works. When he ran it made police pursue and in order to gain compliance they deployed a taser. It's not their fault he had a medical issue that made the taser kill him. He shouldn't have ran in the first place. Better yet, done anything illegal in the first place. Everyone always thinks the police are in the wrong when really they were doing their job and some fucking degenerate committed a crime and they acted correctly in the situation.

[Southside]

Every one is always on the side of the criminal. It's not the police that were fucked up it was the jackass trying to "change the world" through ILLEGAL graffiti. Graffiti is illegal and is vandalism. Great way to change the world huh? You idiots who are on the side of this stupid fuck. Break the law and get in trouble, that's how it works. When he ran it made police pursue and in order to gain compliance they deployed a taser. It's not their fault he had a medical issue that made the taser kill him. He shouldn't have ran in the first place. Better yet, done anything illegal in the first place. Everyone always thinks the police are in the wrong when really they were doing their job and some fucking degenerate committed a crime and they acted correctly in the situation.

So you think its OK to misuse a taser when the manufacturer clearly warns that taser should not be pointed into the chest area? Come on...

For you and everyone else, I'm not sympathizing the petty criminal, nor am I saying that drawing on buildings is right. I'm saying the police force is wrong for using the taser the wrong way. The amount of force that was used didn't fit the crime, I could see if this teen was going around shooting people or holding up banks but he was simply drawing graffiti on a building.

The newspaper even reported that half a dozen officers were involved in the pursuit, your telling me 5+ law enforcement officers cant stop one teenager?

[pieman10]

So you think its OK to misuse a taser when the manufacturer clearly warns that taser should not be pointed into the chest area? Come on...

For you and everyone else, I'm not sympathizing the petty criminal, nor am I saying that drawing on buildings is right. I'm saying the police force is wrong for using the taser the wrong way. The amount of force that was used didn't fit the crime, I could see if this teen was going around shooting people or holding up banks but he was simply drawing graffiti on a building.

The newspaper even reported that half a dozen officers were involved in the pursuit, your telling me 5+ law enforcement officers cant stop one teenager?

I dont know where youve heard about not being able to shoot tasers at the chest but you can, you shoot one spike in the chest and one in a limb, this makes sure the current goes through the body and affects those muscles that keep the target standing up. Firing a taser at the chest wouldn't affect the heart in 99.9% of cases.
In fact theres no proof the taser caused the death of the teenager.

Your also underestimating the power of teenagers, teens are in their prime, they are naturally fitter than anyone older.
So yeah 5 guys after a teen aint gunna work out.

[Southside]

I dont know where youve heard about not being able to shoot tasers at the chest but you can, you shoot one spike in the chest and one in a limb, this makes sure the current goes through the body and affects those muscles that keep the target standing up. Firing a taser at the chest wouldn't affect the heart in 99.9% of cases.
In fact theres no proof the taser caused the death of the teenager.

Your also underestimating the power of teenagers, teens are in their prime, they are naturally fitter than anyone older.
So yeah 5 guys after a teen aint gunna work out.

Its common sense that a couple hundred volts of electricity to the chest area is potentially lethal, you don't have to be a doctor to know that.

Where did I hear it? From the taser manufacturers! http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/22/taser.advice/

Why does the NYPD warn its officers not to aim in the chest area? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/taser-shots-chest-nypd-order-article-1.385210

I could see if it was 1 or 2 officers, then I would factor in the claim you just made that the teen was "naturally fitter" than the officers. It was 5+ officers, dealing with one unarmed teenager, it doesn't take that much effort to corner him.

[Gigablue]

Ok, I'll just assume that every police officer I come into contact with is a super human and can run or pursue me for long distances without getting tired.

Police officers should be in good general physical health. Also, they have police cars, they don't necessarily have to run on foot. When you have a suspect who poses no danger to the police or the public, using any weapon, lethal or nonlethal, just seems lazy, especially if there are so many police officers.

How far would you be willing to chase someone? The longer they are running the bigger the chance of them getting away.

The taser was used as a solution to end the chase quickly before the suspect got away or the police got too tired.

I would rather have the occasional suspect get away if it prevented cases like these. If the suspect in question is violent or wanted for a very serious crime, then use a taser, but with a graffiti artist, I would rather they escape than die.

[Sugaree]

they have police cars

Cars run on gasoline. Gasoline is not an infinite source. What if the cop crashes his car? What if the suspect runs into an alley way? There's so many variables that you can't just rule on one thing happening.

[pieman10]

Its common sense that a couple hundred volts of electricity to the chest area is potentially lethal, you don't have to be a doctor to know that.

Where did I hear it? From the taser manufacturers! http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/10/22/taser.advice/

Why does the NYPD warn its officers not to aim in the chest area? http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/taser-shots-chest-nypd-order-article-1.385210

I could see if it was 1 or 2 officers, then I would factor in the claim you just made that the teen was "naturally fitter" than the officers. It was 5+ officers, dealing with one unarmed teenager, it doesn't take that much effort to corner him.

Common sense would have you believe that voltage kills.
It does not
Ampage kills.

As for the articles your reading what you want to read.
The company advices taser to not be used on the chest to " avoid controversy "
Not necessarily because it kills the target, because people complain about it.
Boo hoo.

[britishboy]

I'm not debating whether or not the officer is in the right or not. In the situation you present, the officer was in the right, yes. However, this topic is looking at the situation in hindsight. That's all we can do until we're actually in the situation ourselves. I wouldn't necessarily run from a police officer unless I knew for a fact I was doing something wrong. But that would be out of fear of then getting a record attached to my name.

hindsight is a beautiful thing, no charges should be brought against the officer, and no never run, you will be caught even if it takes one of the helicopters and dog units, it will make the punishment worse

[Stronk Serb]

its exactly the same concept, use your brain and talk to the police, dont try to run... especially when warned! and btw the police can stop your car by force, why eles would anyone stop
tell me if you agree or disagree with that these are right
1) a man commits an offence
2) the officer should arreste him
3) he decides to try his luck and runs
4) police try to apprehend him and give a warning to stop
5) after failing to stop and the possibly of him escaping justice, the officer deploys a non leathel weapon to subdue him
6) it inconveniently strikes his chest as he couldnt have hit anywhere eles
7) it killes the man running

do you see how the officer was in the right?



wow!! do all you cops have guns or is it like Britain? a few highly trained police marksman (armed police)

1) Yeah he committed an offence.
2) Yes, not kill him
3) Yeah, I would run too
4) I would not heed that warning also
5) The Serbian police would not shoot me, I would get away, but in the US, a non-lethal weapon would be deployed
6) He could
7) Instead of congratulating, they could have called an ambulance, they could have tried to save him. Instead they were high-fiving, congratulating over giving a teenager a cardiac arrest.

All of our police has guns. We have our police special forces the САЈ, Специјална Антитерористичка Јединица, translated Special Anti-Terrorist Unit. They have the marksmen. We also have the Жандармерија, who are taking part in high-profile arrests, riot suppression, acting as security during sports matches. They are also armed like the САЈ. Last year, I saw footage on the TV how they handled the hooligans who were attacking the Gay Pride parade a few years ago. A good job, but they had the orders to stand down, not pursue. If they pursued the hooligans and beat the crap out of them, another Pride parade could be held next year. Жандар means police constable, the Жандармерија is not the regular police. They are on-par with our infantry in terms of armament, if not better.

[britishboy]

5) The Serbian police would not shoot me, I would get away
thats exactly why the tazer was used! and in Britain they would have done the same apart from more warnings and an ambulance being called, the officer in question was in the right


I could see if it was 1 or 2 officers, then I would factor in the claim you just made that the teen was "naturally fitter" than the officers. It was 5+ officers, dealing with one unarmed teenager, it doesn't take that much effort to corner him.

some 30+ cops who passed the physical 10 years ago and developed a love for donuts would have a real problem with a fit teen

[Magical]

1) Yeah he committed an offence.
2) Yes, not kill him
3) Yeah, I would run too
4) I would not heed that warning also
5) The Serbian police would not shoot me, I would get away, but in the US, a non-lethal weapon would be deployed
6) He could
7) Instead of congratulating, they could have called an ambulance, they could have tried to save him. Instead they were high-fiving, congratulating over giving a teenager a cardiac arrest.

All of our police has guns. We have our police special forces the САЈ, Специјална Антитерористичка Јединица, translated Special Anti-Terrorist Unit. They have the marksmen. We also have the Жандармерија, who are taking part in high-profile arrests, riot suppression, acting as security during sports matches. They are also armed like the САЈ. Last year, I saw footage on the TV how they handled the hooligans who were attacking the Gay Pride parade a few years ago. A good job, but they had the orders to stand down, not pursue. If they pursued the hooligans and beat the crap out of them, another Pride parade could be held next year. Жандар means police constable, the Жандармерија is not the regular police. They are on-par with our infantry in terms of armament, if not better.

What I'm confused at is where you guys have gotten this high-fiving idea from.

We merely have the word of people who were witnesses - read, the guys who were his 'lookouts'. Do you really think they like the police? Graffiti artists/criminals?

I doubt it. I think that, just MAYBE, the witnesses were slightly biased.

[britishboy]

What I'm confused at is where you guys have gotten this high-fiving idea from.

We merely have the word of people who were witnesses - read, the guys who were his 'lookouts'. Do you really think they like the police? Graffiti artists/criminals?

I doubt it. I think that, just MAYBE, the witnesses were slightly biased.

well noted!

[Human]

If he didn't stop when he was told to then they were in their rights to taser him, it's not like they intended to kill him

[Southside]

If he didn't stop when he was told to then they were in their rights to taser him, it's not like they intended to kill him

It their right to misuse the taser by shocking him in the chest? The manufactuer warns again aiming in the chest area..

[britishboy]

It their right to misuse the taser by shocking him in the chest? The manufactuer warns again aiming in the chest area..


where could he shoot?
where then the head? no, no clothes to latch on to and worse affects if latches on

the arms? no, theyre waving around, hes running as fast as he can

the legs? same as above

[Southside]

where could he shoot?
where then the head? no, no clothes to latch on to and worse affects if latches on

the arms? no, theyre waving around, hes running as fast as he can

the legs? same as above

No they had him cornered and they shoved him against the wall according to witnesses..

Your supose to aim at the legs,back, or arms...

[whatsgoinon53]

That's sick. Congratulations you flipping sickos, you just killed an innocent kid.

I hate the fact that no matter what country/continent you're in, no matter how developed, no matter how strict, no matter how filled with laws, rules and regulations, there is still going to be corruption. It's messed up.

[Stronk Serb]

where could he shoot?
where then the head? no, no clothes to latch on to and worse affects if latches on

the arms? no, theyre waving around, hes running as fast as he can

the legs? same as above

It might sound weird, but shoot him in the butt. And they did not call an ambulance.

[britishboy]

No they had him cornered and they shoved him against the wall according to witnesses..

Your supose to aim at the legs,back, or arms...
the witness was a friend and lookout, their statements aren't reliable and did you read what I said, and the manufacturers said it to avoid liability, 57% of tazered people are hit in the chest, it causes few problems and as I said all other shots would have missed!
That's sick. Congratulations you flipping sickos, you just killed an innocent kid.

I hate the fact that no matter what country/continent you're in, no matter how developed, no matter how strict, no matter how filled with laws, rules and regulations, there is still going to be corruption. It's messed up.
it wasn't corruption?....

[Jakers61]

No they had him cornered and they shoved him against the wall according to witnesses..

Your supose to aim at the legs,back, or arms...


Clearly you've never been on the shooting side of a taser. You would never aim at someone's legs or arms. You aim for the back or abdomen. Tasers aren't accurate enlighten to hit a fucking arm. It shoots to probes on a conductive wire. Don't try to push "facts" that you know nothing about.

[Southside]

Clearly you've never been on the shooting side of a taser. You would never aim at someone's legs or arms. You aim for the back or abdomen. Tasers aren't accurate enlighten to hit a fucking arm. It shoots to probes on a conductive wire. Don't try to push "facts" that you know nothing about.

Why does the NYPD and taser manufactuers tell officers to aim in those spots then? I do know they shoot little springy electrical things.. Im not a expert, I'm just informing you guys of what the manufacturers say, but we dont have to listen to the guys who developed these weapons right anyway!

[pieman10]

Why does the NYPD and taser manufactuers tell officers to aim in those spots then? I do know they shoot little springy electrical things.. Im not a expert, I'm just informing you guys of what the manufacturers say, but we dont have to listen to the guys who developed these weapons right anyway!

The manufacturers say not to aim for the chest beacuse people complain, they dont say its dangerous to aim for the chest.

[britishboy]

The manufacturers say not to aim for the chest beacuse people complain, they dont say its dangerous to aim for the chest.
yep
who developed these weapons right anyway!
a guy he didn't like bits of lead/copper flying through people, how mean!

[Human]

It their right to misuse the taser by shocking him in the chest? The manufactuer warns again aiming in the chest area..

In a police chase you couldn't blame someone for not getting a good aim with the taser. I doubt he aimed for it, he just pointed towards him and fired.

[Southside]

The manufacturers say not to aim for the chest beacuse people complain, they dont say its dangerous to aim for the chest.

Really? Why have studies shown that its dangerous for tazers to be aimmed in the chest region then? Why have people gone into cardiac arrest after be shocked by tasers? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/health/research/taser-shot-to-the-chest-can-kill-a-study-warns.html?_r=0

[pieman10]

Really? Why have studies shown that its dangerous for tazers to be aimmed in the chest region then? Why have people gone into cardiac arrest after be shocked by tasers? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/01/health/research/taser-shot-to-the-chest-can-kill-a-study-warns.html?_r=0

It should be noted that the study only focused on 8 people that had suffered cardiac arrest BEFORE the study had even started.
8 people isnt exactly the biggest survey in the world and no doubt the study was biased.

Meanwhile a study has revealed that 100% of studys can be bent by a motive.

Belive me, there are plenty of causes for cardiac arrest, loud noises can set them off...

[Southside]

It should be noted that the study only focused on 8 people that had suffered cardiac arrest BEFORE the study had even started.
8 people isnt exactly the biggest survey in the world and no doubt the study was biased.

Meanwhile a study has revealed that 100% of studys can be bent by a motive.

Belive me, there are plenty of causes for cardiac arrest, loud noises can set them off...

The teen in this story was cornered by multiple officer, the teen was unarmed, so the teen wasnt running while the taser was fired. So that means the officer clearly could have took a shot to the legs, lower abdomen area, or arms..The officers could have even physically arrested the young man, it was 5-6 on 1...

[pieman10]

The teen in this story was cornered by multiple officer, the teen was unarmed, so the teen wasnt running while the taser was fired. So that means the officer clearly could have took a shot to the legs, lower abdomen area, or arms..The officers could have even physically arrested the young man, it was 5-6 on 1...

Have you ever shot a rifle, pistol or any type of firearm? Its not easy to shoot.
Keep in mind that a taser is not even a firearm, it has no barrel, it is ejected out.
You cant finely aim with a taser so even a cornered teen could be a pretty hard shot, im also assuming the teen is going to be jumping around even when cornered.

As for a physical arrest, would you rather risk getting a black eye, busted lip or even a kick in the balls.
Or you could subdue the target with a taser and avoid injury.

A cornered man hyped up on adrenaline is a force to be reckoned with, even against 6 guys.

[Jakers61]

Have you ever shot a rifle, pistol or any type of firearm? Its not easy to shoot.
Keep in mind that a taser is not even a firearm, it has no barrel, it is ejected out.
You cant finely aim with a taser so even a cornered teen could be a pretty hard shot, im also assuming the teen is going to be jumping around even when cornered.

As for a physical arrest, would you rather risk getting a black eye, busted lip or even a kick in the balls.
Or you could subdue the target with a taser and avoid injury.

A cornered man hyped up on adrenaline is a force to be reckoned with, even against 6 guys.


You're exactly right. And not to mention the adrenaline going through the officers involved. You can be in a situation where it turns lethal like this and fire 6 real rounds and you might hit once or twice. There no such thing as aiming in crazy high stress situations.

[Luminous]

There's something wrong here, that's just horrible. Yes the teen was doing something wrong but NO death, no matter the circumstances, deserves high fives on the scene.

[britishboy]

There's something wrong here, that's just horrible. Yes the teen was doing something wrong but NO death, no matter the circumstances, deserves high fives on the scene.

do remember that it was one of his 'lookouts' that claimee they hi fived

[DerBear]

My main question is....

Why did they use a the taser thing when all he did was run away?

I thought those are only deployed if a suspect is armed with a knife or becomes violent, a simple foot chase shouldn't have warranted such action.

[britishboy]

My main question is....

Why did they use a the taser thing when all he did was run away?

I thought those are only deployed if a suspect is armed with a knife or becomes violent, a simple foot chase shouldn't have warranted such action.

thats our law, I think US law is different and if the suspect is getting away, I think its fine if the suspect is getting away, a spasm on the floor is better than him escaping justice!

[DerBear]

thats our law, I think US law is different and if the suspect is getting away, I think its fine if the suspect is getting away, a spasm on the floor is better than him escaping justice!

You are aware with those who have weak hearts or have troubles such asthma or various other medical conditions that being sapped by one of these can be potentially fatal as seen in this case.

If the person was violent or was a danger to the public then by all means but this guy didn't deserve to die and it shows the USA is completely fucked up with logic in terms of when you use force.

In the UK we have methods of apprehending suspects who run without using force and it works just fine.

[Left Now]

Why did he attack him with a electric shock?

[Southside]

Why did he attack him with a electric shock?

Because our police force believes in using unecessary force even when suspects are non violent and unarmed.

[britishboy]

You are aware with those who have weak hearts or have troubles such asthma or various other medical conditions that being sapped by one of these can be potentially fatal as seen in this case.

If the person was violent or was a danger to the public then by all means but this guy didn't deserve to die and it shows the USA is completely fucked up with logic in terms of when you use force.

In the UK we have methods of apprehending suspects who run without using force and it works just fine.
yeah I agree, I also like how our police are unarmed, no issue of police brutality like we see in the US
Why did he attack him with a electric shock?
to apprehend him, a bit harsh

[Left Now]

yeah I agree, I also like how our police are unarmed, no issue of police brutality like we see in the US

to apprehend him, a bit harsh

Sounds like violent!In here the police is only allowed to use sticks,I think in many countries they only use sticks!

[Stronk Serb]

Sounds like violent!In here the police is only allowed to use sticks,I think in many countries they only use sticks!

You mean police batons? In Serbia they do also, but if a police officer is angry, he might pull out his gun and shoot a bullet in the air.

[Left Now]

You mean police batons? In Serbia they do also, but if a police officer is angry, he might pull out his gun and shoot a bullet in the air.

If he was in our country,they could take him to the court;Because most of the police officers here do not have permission to use warm guns even if they do not shoot a person.

[Stronk Serb]

If he was in our country,they could take him to the court;Because most of the police officers here do not have permission to use warm guns even if they do not shoot a person.

You have order inside your police, while the police here is corrupt and undisciplined.

[britishboy]

Sounds like violent!In here the police is only allowed to use sticks,I think in many countries they only use sticks!

same here, but battons instead of sticks, they also have peper spray, if theres a real problem a tazer, dog or armed unit may be called be our everyday police are unarmed

[Jakers61]

Because our police force believes in using unecessary force even when suspects are non violent and unarmed.


You're probably pushing this cuz you're a little fuck who follows in his footsteps and gives every cop a problem.

You don't have to be armed for a cop to hit you with a taser. It's not a law. It's more dangerous to tase someone who his armed because they could shoot the gun, or fall and stab themselves. Tasers are meant to be used on unarmed people. Learn your shit before you push issues of a little graffiti fuck that no one really cared too much for. It's his fault he got tased, you weren't even in the situation so how would you know he's not violent? You don't. The witnesses were family and friends, family and friends will always lie to the police. JUST LIKE TREYVON MARTIN. Another little punk kid.

[Sir Suomi]

Because our police force believes in using unecessary force even when suspects are non violent and unarmed.

They were attempting to apprehend a fleeing suspect, and this suspect, even after repeated warnings, was put down by a non-lethal weapon, where the intent was to stop the individual and take him into custody. Is it their fault that they were simply doing their job? No. Now, it's tragic that he died. I'm not saying that it was a good thing that he did die. But he did bring it upon himself, as soon as he began to flee from the police. I mean, I know your instinct is to run, but that's no excuse for him attempting to flee the scene. He did an illegal act, attempted to avoid the consequences, which provoked the chase, in where the officers had no other choice but to use the taser. The officers couldn't risk the fact that he may escape, may still be armed, or is running to an area that could put them into danger. They did exactly what their training taught them to do, and I will not blame them for his death.

[Southside]

You're probably pushing this cuz you're a little fuck who follows in his footsteps and gives every cop a problem.

You don't have to be armed for a cop to hit you with a taser. It's not a law. It's more dangerous to tase someone who his armed because they could shoot the gun, or fall and stab themselves. Tasers are meant to be used on unarmed people. Learn your shit before you push issues of a little graffiti fuck that no one really cared too much for. It's his fault he got tased, you weren't even in the situation so how would you know he's not violent? You don't. The witnesses were family and friends, family and friends will always lie to the police. JUST LIKE TREYVON MARTIN. Another little punk kid.


I don't care too much for the name calling, I don't know why your stooping down to that level.

Like I said multiple times in previous posts, I'm not defending the young man because he was spray painting on buildings, I'm defending him because he is a victim of police brutality. A taser didn't have to be used, according to the police report multiple officers already had him cornered. Your telling me 5 or so police officers cant arrest a teenager that's already cornered?

You wanna go into the Trayvon Martin conversation? Didn't the police dispatcher tell George Zimmerman NOT to get out of his vehicle? Didn't Zimmerman disobey police orders?

[britishboy]

I don't care too much for the name calling, I don't know why your stooping down to that level.

Like I said multiple times in previous points, I'm not defending the young man because he was spray painting on buildings, I'm defending him because he is a victim of police brutality. A taser didn't have to be used, according to the police report multiple officers already had him cornered. Your telling me 5 or so police officers cant arrest a teenager that's already cornered?

You wanna go into the Trayvon Martin conversation? Didn't the police dispatcher tell George Zimmerman NOT to get out of his vehicle? Didn't Zimmerman disobey police orders?

police brutality is a punch in the face, the use of a non leathel weapon to apprehend a fleeing criminal isn't, thats why no charges are brought

[Stronk Serb]

police brutality is a punch in the face, the use of a non leathel weapon to apprehend a fleeing criminal isn't, thats why no charges are brought

The only way the teenager could run to was the wall. According to the police report, they should have just approached him, and handcuffed him. Police brutality is this. A punch in the face is nothing compared to actual police brutality.

[Harry Smith]

police brutality is a punch in the face, the use of a non leathel weapon to apprehend a fleeing criminal isn't, thats why no charges are brought

Non lethal is sketchy, if you shoot a taser at someone's chest there is a very big risk of them suffering cardiac arrest which could in fact cause them to have a heart attack.

Police Brutality can be both physical or mental, and yes as much as you'll doubt it there are cases of it happening in the UK

[Jakers61]

I don't care too much for the name calling, I don't know why your stooping down to that level.

Like I said multiple times in previous points, I'm not defending the young man because he was spray painting on buildings, I'm defending him because he is a victim of police brutality. A taser didn't have to be used, according to the police report multiple officers already had him cornered. Your telling me 5 or so police officers cant arrest a teenager that's already cornered?

You wanna go into the Trayvon Martin conversation? Didn't the police dispatcher tell George Zimmerman NOT to get out of his vehicle? Didn't Zimmerman disobey police orders?


It's not police brutality. When someone is being chased and has adrenaline rushing though their body, you'd be surprised what they could do. Ever hear of weak people being trapped in a life threatening situation(say a boulder fell on them) and somehow they pull this thousand pound rock off themself. That would be the adrenaline. It's not police brutality, it's officer safety. Why risk getting hurt when there's a safe, usually nonlethal, solution to the problem. It's not their fault he ran, then when they apprehended he died from something.

[Sir Suomi]

Like I said multiple times in previous posts, I'm not defending the young man because he was spray painting on buildings, I'm defending him because he is a victim of police brutality. A taser didn't have to be used, according to the police report multiple officers already had him cornered. Your telling me 5 or so police officers cant arrest a teenager that's already cornered?



Like I've previously stated, refer to my last quote, and you'll see the officer's reasoning behind this incident.

Also, I'm not even going to start on that Zimmerman case. It's confusing as hell, and I don't even want to try and pick a side.