Rape and Rape Culture

[TheDeepestDepths]

Trigger Warnings: Rape, Rape Culture.

Word of warning before I start, this is a delicate subject and please do not let the comments get out of hand. People, be careful with your comments.

Also something I need to say, I am not in any way trying to say that all men are dangerous (I have plenty of male friends), or that no women are. I am not saying that men are not victim to assault. I am merely using the most common cases of sexual assault.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/shakespeares_sister/shakes6/infographicrapists.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jG9ZK6IILoE/UEgH6DaA6RI/AAAAAAAAB90/dWJ61tKxS14/s1600/one-in-sixteen.jpg
In this image the blue people are women who have been sexually assaulted by non-strangers and the yellow person is someone who has been sexually assaulted by a complete stranger.

There are people, both on this site and in the 'real' world who believe the rape culture doesn't exist, that it's not really a big problem in our society. With this post I want to discuss how damaging this can be and to point out to these people how real it is.

The fact is that if you are talking to a woman, statistically, there is a one in four chance you are talking to someone who has been or will be sexually assaulted in their life. And a third of rape victims develop rape-related PTSD. If you participate in rape culture while talking to one of these people, chances are you will trigger a very traumatic and devastating incident in their past.

According to Wikipedia "Rape culture is a concept which links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society, and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, or even condone rape." This is not just rape, this includes rape jokes, misogynistic insults (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny), and patriarchal attitudes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarchy). It is when someone puts their desires above a woman's right to feel safe.

Statistically something like 4.5% men are rapists (http://amptoons.com/blog/2004/05/05/how-many-men-are-rapists/). That is men who have admitted to forcing women to have sex against their will. In America this translates to over six million men. This is one is 25 people. With all the men you come across in a day, how do I know you are not that one rapist? I don't.

Rape culture is when people act offended or angry when women protect themselves against all men who they do not know mean them no harm. In my experience some men have acted very put off and vaguely offended when I indicate that they are making me uncomfortable with their conversation or their refusal to respect the boundaries I am trying to put up.

Sorry for the rant, but it infuriates me that this exists.

If you want more information and facts check these websites: One (http://msmagazine.com/blog/2011/05/02/25-facts-about-rape-in-america/), Two (http://www.survive.org.uk/truths.html), Three (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States).

[Its Pretty]

Rape honestly should be a death sentence, such a shame that it isn't. And if that means 4.5% of men will be put down for justice, then so be it. Removal of sexual organs is also a viable punishment.

[Gigablue]

Rape honestly should be a death sentence, such a shame that it isn't. And if that means 4.5% of men will be put down for justice, then so be it. Removal of sexual organs is also a viable punishment.

Making rape punishable by death is a terrible idea. It would make things even worse for rape victims. Right now, the penalty for rape is serious, but crimes like murder have a higher sentence. If you punish rape the same way as murder, rapists would just kill their victims to get rid of witnesses. You might reduce the number of rapes, but not significantly, and you would put rape victims in grave danger.

I think the solution is to encourage greater reporting of rape. We as a society need to send the message that rape is unacceptable and that it needs to be punished. If rapes aren't reported, no justice can be done. We need more education for everyone, so that they know what to do in the event of a rape.

Even more important than education, we need to stop blaming the victims. There is a huge stigma associated with rape. If women report it, they are accused of being promiscuous or of having somehow deserved it. If men report it, they may feel emasculated and weak, especially of the perpetrator is female. As long as the blaming of the victim continues, rape will be very seldom reported.

[Harry Smith]

I think the problem in regards to the legal side is that rape is so hard to prove, I mean the male can claim that it was consensual so unless their was a witness or the male has a track record then the court would find it hard to act on it.

However I do agree the police should encourage people to always report it

[Its Pretty]

Making rape punishable by death is a terrible idea. It would make things even worse for rape victims. Right now, the penalty for rape is serious, but crimes like murder have a higher sentence. If you punish rape the same way as murder, rapists would just kill their victims to get rid of witnesses. You might reduce the number of rapes, but not significantly, and you would put rape victims in grave danger.

I think the solution is to encourage greater reporting of rape. We as a society need to send the message that rape is unacceptable and that it needs to be punished. If rapes aren't reported, no justice can be done. We need more education for everyone, so that they know what to do in the event of a rape.

Even more important than education, we need to stop blaming the victims. There is a huge stigma associated with rape. If women report it, they are accused of being promiscuous or of having somehow deserved it. If men report it, they may feel emasculated and weak, especially of the perpetrator is female. As long as the blaming of the victim continues, rape will be very seldom reported. So you're saying we shouldn't rightfully kill the rapist out of fear that he will murder the victim? What kind of chopped logic is this? If we don't issue the punishment out of fear then we are letting the rapists win! The punishment for rape should be 15x more cruel then the rape itself. Criminals should be punished! one thing for sure is that rapists must be permanently removed from society to avoid reincidence.

[Harry Smith]

So you're saying we shouldn't rightfully kill the rapist out of fear that he will murder the victim? What kind of chopped logic is this? If we don't issue the punishment out of fear then we are letting the rapists win! The punishment for rape should be 15x more cruel then the rape itself. Criminals should be punished! one thing for sure is that rapists must be permanently removed from society to avoid reincidence.

Rapists do reform, that's the point of Prison. The fact you want the punishment to be 'cruel' is rather unhinging

[Walter Powers]

Exactly why I support the right of a women to carry a gun or knife to defend herself with.

[TheDeepestDepths]

I think the solution is to encourage greater reporting of rape. We as a society need to send the message that rape is unacceptable and that it needs to be punished. If rapes aren't reported, no justice can be done. We need more education for everyone, so that they know what to do in the event of a rape.

Even more important than education, we need to stop blaming the victims. There is a huge stigma associated with rape. If women report it, they are accused of being promiscuous or of having somehow deserved it. If men report it, they may feel emasculated and weak, especially of the perpetrator is female. As long as the blaming of the victim continues, rape will be very seldom reported.

You're right on track here. You needn't look farther than the Steubenville case to see how rape is viewed by the media and by the people who witness it. There was a huge amount of witnesses to the rape and they just stood on the sidelines and watched - in some cases cheering them on - and the media originally could talk about nothing but the rapists and how their lives were ruined and how they had such bright futures ahead of them.

The problem is that people don't know how to classify rape and don't realise what it is they're doing. Even victims come onto the boards and describe their experiences where they were sexually assaulted to go on and ask "Was this rape?" Chances are that yes, it was rape.

I think the problem in regards to the legal side is that rape is so hard to prove, I mean the male can claim that it was consensual so unless their was a witness or the male has a track record then the court would find it hard to act on it.

Another problem with the courts and the legal system when it comes to rape is that the defendant is usually the one who is favoured. In these cases without some sort of visual evidence or a witness, it comes down to who's side of the story they're going to take.

Exactly why I support the right of a women to carry a gun or knife to defend herself with.

I completely agree that women need to be able to defend themselves somehow, but with something as lethal as a gun would cause problems. Since there is a large percentage of people who are not rapists, there is also a large percentage of people who approach women who quite literally mean them no harm. But the problem here is that most men do not know how threatening they can seem to a woman. This (http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/) post does a wonderful job of highlighting what I mean.

[Harry Smith]

You're right on track here. You needn't look farther than the Steubenville case to see how rape is viewed by the media and by the people who witness it. There was a huge amount of witnesses to the rape and they just stood on the sidelines and watched - in some cases cheering them on - and the media originally could talk about nothing but the rapists and how their lives were ruined and how they had such bright futures ahead of them.

The problem is that people don't know how to classify rape and don't realise what it is they're doing. Even victims come onto the boards and describe their experiences where they were sexually assaulted to go on and ask "Was this rape?" Chances are that yes, it was rape.



Another problem with the courts and the legal system when it comes to rape is that the defendant is usually the one who is favoured. In these cases without some sort of visual evidence or a witness, it comes down to who's side of the story they're going to take.

And the issue is unless the court can prove the defendant committed the crime they can't send them to jail for 10+ years unless they are certain within resonable doubt

[Its Pretty]

Rapists do reform, that's the point of Prison. The fact you want the punishment to be 'cruel' is rather unhinging

Why shouldn't it be cruel? Would you not say that rape is cruel? Humiliating? As I said, the punishment should be 15x as humiliating and cruel as the crime itself, to be fair. An 'eye for an eye' isn't fair because it implies that the guilty criminal deserves as much pain as the innocent victim. If i stole your bike, and the only punishment would be to return the bike, is that fair? Not in the slightest! The same way, simply imprisoning culprits is no justice. Perhaps a randomly timed explosive should be placed in the testicles and penis to surgically remove them at a random point. Such mirrors the humiliation, cruelty, and spontanuity of rape. And no aesthetic should be necessary. And believe me, your wince while reading the punishment should be 15x more pronounced then if you were reading about rape.

[Camazotz]

Making rape punishable by death is a terrible idea. It would make things even worse for rape victims. Right now, the penalty for rape is serious, but crimes like murder have a higher sentence. If you punish rape the same way as murder, rapists would just kill their victims to get rid of witnesses. You might reduce the number of rapes, but not significantly, and you would put rape victims in grave danger.

I think the solution is to encourage greater reporting of rape. We as a society need to send the message that rape is unacceptable and that it needs to be punished. If rapes aren't reported, no justice can be done. We need more education for everyone, so that they know what to do in the event of a rape.

Even more important than education, we need to stop blaming the victims. There is a huge stigma associated with rape. If women report it, they are accused of being promiscuous or of having somehow deserved it. If men report it, they may feel emasculated and weak, especially of the perpetrator is female. As long as the blaming of the victim continues, rape will be very seldom reported.

Like always, I agree with Gigablue. The best way to get rid of rape is to educate people on what rape is, where it occurs (usually non-strangers), and how to prevent it. What OP does by setting boundaries is exactly what needs to be done by everyone; establish what is acceptable and what isn't (sexual flirtation).

So you're saying we shouldn't rightfully kill the rapist out of fear that he will murder the victim?

I think capital punishment is another debate in itself, but I agree with Gigablue's logic that rapists would be more inclined to murder their victims rather than risk being killed themselves.

If we don't issue the punishment out of fear then we are letting the rapists win!

No. Just no.

The punishment for rape should be 15x more cruel then the rape itself.

Nobody deserves something like that. That is considered "cruel and unusual punishment" by law.

Criminals should be punished!

Agreed.

one thing for sure is that rapists must be permanently removed from society to avoid reincidence.

Why? Your stereotypical rapist isn't some guy that sneaks into homes; he's an intoxicated friend/relative more likely to to be a serial criminal than serial rapist.

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-offenders

You're right on track here. You needn't look farther than the Steubenville case to see how rape is viewed by the media and by the people who witness it. There was a huge amount of witnesses to the rape and they just stood on the sidelines and watched - in some cases cheering them on - and the media originally could talk about nothing but the rapists and how their lives were ruined and how they had such bright futures ahead of them.

It's the bystander effect; the more people there, everyone views themselves as less responsible, and no one got the girl help. I think the perception of the media shouldn't say much, though, because there was just as much pity than sympathy. Yes, there was a lot of "these boys just made a mistake that will destroy any future they could've had" but there was also "these men should be locked away forever." I think it's just what you were watching.

Unfortunately, the rape culture has not found a median that everyone can agree with; in the Steubenville case, there are tons of people that blamed the victim (almost as much) as the boys. I think this has to do with a lack of education of how to prevent rape; the victim put herself (unknowingly) in a dangerous and risky situation. Lots of people put blame on her for this, but I think girls need to be taught early on to stay away from these environments (underage drinking, drugs, parties, etc.)

However, I do think after that point, there should be some sort of self-guilt. I don't think you should feel like a victim if you do something dangerous and then suffer the consequences; I wouldn't walk alone through a dark alley in a "shady" neighborhood at night. I'm not blaming rape victims on their clothes/fashion, because obviously by wearing "revealing" clothes isn't "asking for it." But there is just some ignorance by youth (nothing new) that nothing bad could ever happen to them; and when it does, they're surprised.

[StoppingTime]

Perhaps a randomly timed explosive should be placed in the testicles and penis to surgically remove them at a random point.

This is where I decided any kind of logical reply to what you just said is meaningless. This is so ridiculous in so many ways I hope you're trolling.


I agree with Gigablue for the most part. If we remove the stigma that rape is "deserved" or that you're weak for reporting it, we'll be heading in the right direction. Of course it would need to be proven or pleaded, but that's the same as most things, I suppose.

[Its Pretty]

This is where I decided any kind of logical reply to what you just said is meaningless. This is so ridiculous in so many ways I hope you're trolling.


I agree with Gigablue for the most part. If we remove the stigma that rape is "deserved" or that you're weak for reporting it, we'll be heading in the right direction. Of course it would need to be proven or pleaded, but that's the same as most things, I suppose.

The most logical reply would be 'I respect and value your opinion even though I disagree with
it' rather then disrespecting and insulting me and my values by accusing me of 'trolling'. A swift apology is in order.

[Gigablue]

So you're saying we shouldn't rightfully kill the rapist out of fear that he will murder the victim? What kind of chopped logic is this? If we don't issue the punishment out of fear then we are letting the rapists win! The punishment for rape should be 15x more cruel then the rape itself. Criminals should be punished! one thing for sure is that rapists must be permanently removed from society to avoid reincidence.

I'm saying that more serious crimes should have more serious punishments. Rape is a horrible crime, but not quite as bad as murder. Punishing the the same way would not only be unfair, but could put the victim's life in danger. As explained above. I do think a harsher penalty for rape might not be a bad idea, but not on the order that you're suggesting.

Exactly why I support the right of a women to carry a gun or knife to defend herself with.

The problem with this is that the weapon might be turned against the victim. If someone isn't well trained with a knife or firearm, it would be ineffective, and potentially dangerous. I agree with the idea, but the weapons would have to be accompanied with self defence training.

Also, I have a slight problem with the use of lethal force when ones life is not in danger. Perhaps nonlethal weapons like stun guns or pepper spray would be better than knives or guns.

Another problem with the courts and the legal system when it comes to rape is that the defendant is usually the one who is favoured. In these cases without some sort of visual evidence or a witness, it comes down to who's side of the story they're going to take.

The defendant is always somewhat favoured. That's just the way it is in systems with a presumption of innocence.

Why shouldn't it be cruel? Would you not say that rape is cruel? Humiliating? As I said, the punishment should be 15x as humiliating and cruel as the crime itself, to be fair. An 'eye for an eye' isn't fair because it implies that the guilty criminal deserves as much pain as the innocent victim. If i stole your bike, and the only punishment would be to return the bike, is that fair? Not in the slightest! The same way, simply imprisoning culprits is no justice. Perhaps a randomly timed explosive should be placed in the testicles and penis to surgically remove them at a random point. Such mirrors the humiliation, cruelty, and spontanuity of rape. And no aesthetic should be necessary. And believe me, your wince while reading the punishment should be 15x more pronounced then if you were reading about rape.

The purpose of the justice system is not punishment, it's rehabilitation. The penalty for a crime should be chosen to ensure the criminal doesn't reoffend. When rehabilitation is impossible, the criminal should be isolated to ensure the protection of others.

No matter how much you punish the rapist, it won't make the victim's pain disappear. If you do anything beyond what is necessary to ensure the safety of the public and to prevent reoffending, you are simply being cruel.

[StoppingTime]

The most logical reply would be 'I respect and value your opinion even though I disagree with
it' rather then disrespecting and insulting me and my values by accusing me of 'trolling'. A swift apology is in order.

But I don't respect or value that opinion. I don't have to - nobody has to. If you value "explosive[s] should be placed in the testicles and penis to surgically remove them at a random point." then I question your values. Plus it's completely impractical and illogical but I suppose this is a petty argument at this point.

It isn't disrespectful to you for me to "hope" you're trolling; if I said "you're trolling and you've got a shit opinion" that'd be different.

[Its Pretty]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigablue

The purpose of the justice system is not punishment, it's rehabilitation. The penalty for a crime should be chosen to ensure the criminal doesn't reoffend. When rehabilitation is impossible, the criminal should be isolated to ensure the protection of others.

No matter how much you punish the rapist, it won't make the victim's pain disappear. If you do anything beyond what is necessary to ensure the safety of the public and to prevent reoffending, you are simply being cruel.


That's right, it is cruel, and in such a situation, cruelty is needed and just, not to make the victim feel better (although he/she is invited to watch the punishment take place) but to make the criminal 'feel better.' Again with the bike theft analogy, if i stole your bike, would it be fair to just return the bike? No, an added degree of suffering must be applied to the culprit to ensure that he/she understands what he/she has done, that may be permanently removing an object from the culprit's household. Maybe his car will be confiscated, so he will understand how it is to live without transportantion. Obviously the punishment wouldn't be that serious but something similar. The same way the implanted explosive will help the culprit. If one does not think such a 'harsh' punishment is ethical, imagine the pain and suffering experienced by a raped individual, pain that may last a lifetime. Along with that, the person dealing with such pain is more or less innocent, while the culprit is guilty.

[Gigablue]

That's right, it is cruel, and in such a situation, cruelty is needed and just, not to make the victim feel better (although he/she is invited to watch the punishment take place) but to make the criminal 'feel better.'

What do you think the purpose of the justice system is? It's not to punish, it's to rehabilitate. Your insanely harsh punishments aren't any more effective at rehabilitation than a jail sentence (they are probably far less effective), and they are way more cruel. We should try to avoid cruelty, and always give the least severe punishment capable of rehabilitating.

Again with the bike theft analogy, if i stole your bike, would it be fair to just return the bike? No, an added degree of suffering must be applied to the culprit to ensure that he/she understands what he/she has done, that may be permanently removing an object from the culprit's household. Maybe his car will be confiscated, so he will understand how it is to live without transportation. Obviously the punishment wouldn't be that serious but something similar.

If your bike were stolen, it should be returned and the thief should have some kind of penalty which will ensure they won't do it again. The penalty doesn't have to relate to the nature of the crime (i.e. taking something away from a thief). It just has to ensure they don't reoffend.

The same way the implanted explosive will help the culprit. If one does not think such a 'harsh' punishment is ethical, imagine the pain and suffering experienced by a raped individual, pain that may last a lifetime. Along with that, the person dealing with such pain is more or less innocent, while the culprit is guilty.

The solution to pain is not more pain. Your suggestion would cause far more pain than necessary.

Also, don't forget that the criminal still has basic human rights. While they did commit a horrible crime, that doesn't revoke their right to be free from torture or cruel and unusual punishment. Criminal or not, everyone has basic human rights.

[TheDeepestDepths]

Like always, I agree with Gigablue. The best way to get rid of rape is to educate people on what rape is, where it occurs (usually non-strangers), and how to prevent it. What OP does by setting boundaries is exactly what needs to be done by everyone; establish what is acceptable and what isn't (sexual flirtation).

Why? Your stereotypical rapist isn't some guy that sneaks into homes; he's an intoxicated friend/relative more likely to to be a serial criminal than serial rapist.

Educating people on what rape is will solve a lot of the problem because believe it or not a lot of rapists are horrified at the thought of rape. They think forcing someone to have sex with them is terrible but don't equate what they are doing with that. Popular literature and television/film don't help this mindset either. Most rapes portrayed in these forms is where we are exposed to rape and the most common rape portrayed is 'violent things done violently to a woman in a dark alley by a scary-looking stranger'. When most of the time this really isn't the case.

Rape is not always violent. Rape doesn't even mean there was a 'no'. Rape means there wasn't a 'yes'!

Unfortunately, the rape culture has not found a median that everyone can agree with; in the Steubenville case, there are tons of people that blamed the victim (almost as much) as the boys. I think this has to do with a lack of education of how to prevent rape; the victim put herself (unknowingly) in a dangerous and risky situation. Lots of people put blame on her for this, but I think girls need to be taught early on to stay away from these environments (underage drinking, drugs, parties, etc.)

I understand that you are trying hard here to not put blame on the girl for being raped, but it still comes across that way. She went to a party. She got drunk. It happens, especially when you're a teenager. A lack of education both on how not to rape and how to prevent rape can certainly be blamed in this case. But none of this was her fault, she deserved none of what happened to her both that night and everything that happened afterwards.

But something you are saying here is that girls and women cannot and should not do things that boys and men can do for their own safety. And you're right, the chances are far lower that a guy would be raped while unconscious than a girl, but you phrased it in such a way that puts blame on the female.

However, I do think after that point, there should be some sort of self-guilt. I don't think you should feel like a victim if you do something dangerous and then suffer the consequences; I wouldn't walk alone through a dark alley in a "shady" neighborhood at night. I'm not blaming rape victims on their clothes/fashion, because obviously by wearing "revealing" clothes isn't "asking for it." But there is just some ignorance by youth (nothing new) that nothing bad could ever happen to them; and when it does, they're surprised.

I disagree with you here. I understand where you are coming from, but I do disagree. No-one should ever be blamed or feel guilty for their assault. Yes, a girl who walks through a dark alley is taking a risk. She is being reckless and perhaps foolish, but if something bad happens to her it is not her fault. The blame lies with the person who assaulted her. They alone were responsible for their actions. She didn't make them attack her. To say blame lies with her is to take blame away from the rapist. That they weren't in charge of their actions.To say that if a girl flirts and then says no and the guy then 'just can't help himself' is to say that all men are driven by sex and care more about their satisfaction than their morals, which is wrong. Everyone should own their actions, especially when they've done something inherently wrong.

[britishboy]

its not a bloody problem, in India yes, in Europe and North America no

[TheDeepestDepths]

its not a bloody problem, in India yes, in Europe and North America no

Did you just happen to miss the statistics? One in four women are sexually assaulted, if that's not a problem I don't know what is.

But wait ... you're not a woman so it's not worth talking about, right?

[britishboy]

Did you just happen to miss the statistics? One in four women are sexually assaulted, if that's not a problem I don't know what is.

But wait ... you're not a woman so it's not worth talking about, right?

1) men get sexually assaulted too, stop being narrow minded
2) its hardly a culture and women live for 80 years so 1/4 isn't terrible and in the UK sexual assault has gone down
3) I think in the minority of cases its avoidable
4) I think your one of them women that see sexism everywhere for example what do yoy think on this? www.youtube.com/watch?client=mv-google&hl=en-GB&gl=GB&v=zwT6DZCQi9k this has been the center of much debate but in reality is just men liking naked women, thats why its there

[saea97]

2) its hardly a culture and women live for 80 years so 1/4 isn't terrible

Fuckin' wow.

[britishboy]

Fuckin' wow.

its actually 1/5 even less, and women over react to it, I would say only 1/10 is serious and worth talking about

[saea97]

its actually 1/5 even less, and women over react to it, I would say only 1/10 is serious and worth talking about

You're in a position to make these calls how, exactly? Half of sexual assaults, according to you, aren't worth talking about?

[britishboy]

You're in a position to make these calls how, exactly? Half of sexual assaults, according to you, aren't worth talking about?

yep rape is the bad thing

[saea97]

yep rape is the bad thing

Ah right, so anything except non-consensual penetration is totally irrelevant?

Refer back to "fuckin' wow."

[britishboy]

Ah right, so anything except non-consensual penetration is totally irrelevant?

Refer back to "fuckin' wow."

no but most is over reacted and neither is a problem

[TheDeepestDepths]

1) men get sexually assaulted too, stop being narrow minded
2) its hardly a culture and women live for 80 years so 1/4 isn't terrible and in the UK sexual assault has gone down
3) I think in the minority of cases its avoidable
4) I think your one of them women that see sexism everywhere for example what do yoy think on this? www.youtube.com/watch?client=mv-google&hl=en-GB&gl=GB&v=zwT6DZCQi9k this has been the center of much debate but in reality is just men liking naked women, thats why its there

First, I said in the very first post that I know men get raped I was merely concentrating on female rape because 91% of rape victims are female. Don't call me narrow-minded when you are the one who believes that rape isn't a problem.

Second, do you believe that unemployed people are not a part of a culture? How about Jewish people? Because the number of unemployed people and Jewish people in America is less than the amount of rapists. You don't want to believe it's a part of our culture? Six million people have made it a part of our culture. Also, women live to age 80? Fine. But 50% of rapes happen to girls under the age of 18. That means that they will have to live with what happen to them for the next 60 years. It has gone down, yes, but there's still a shocking amount of rape happening.

I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here.

Sexism is everywhere. It's miles better than it was, of course, but it's still there. I don't really care about the video.

its actually 1/5 even less, and women over react to it, I would say only 1/10 is serious and worth talking about

It depends on what statistics you're looking at. I looked up American ones because they seem to be the best researched and because most people on this site are from America. The ones I found varied from one in four to one in six. But guess what, that's still a huge amount of people.

I sincerely hope you're trolling here. You have no right to say how traumatic a woman will find being raped. As I said before, one in three women will develop rape-related PTSD. Are you just going to tell those women that their over reacting and to get over it and they're going to live until their 80 so what's the issue? Lastly, where are you pulling these statistics from? Or are you just making them up to suit your idealized version of the world?

[Gigablue]

2) its hardly a culture and women live for 80 years so 1/4 isn't terrible and in the UK sexual assault has gone down

1/4 is way too many. Rape is so something that should never happen. Saying that 1/4 isn't terrible is making light of the problem. If you were one of those women, I'm sure you would think it was terrible to say the least.

its actually 1/5 even less, and women over react to it, I would say only 1/10 is serious and worth talking about

People don't overreact, they under react. The ideal reaction would be to contact the police immediately, but because of our culture, which blames the victim, and people like you, who trivialize the problem, many victims are too afraid to go to the police.

Also, what constitutes an overreaction? You make it seem like even talking about it is overreacting. Are you seriously suggesting that half of rape victims should just stay silent?

[Camazotz]

its not a bloody problem, in India yes, in Europe and North America no

Rape culture is most certainly a problem in the United States.

I understand that you are trying hard here to not put blame on the girl for being raped, but it still comes across that way. She went to a party. She got drunk. It happens, especially when you're a teenager. A lack of education both on how not to rape and how to prevent rape can certainly be blamed in this case. But none of this was her fault, she deserved none of what happened to her both that night and everything that happened afterwards.

I understand that you are trying hard here to not put blame on the girl for being raped, but it still comes across that way. She went to a party. She got drunk. It happens, especially when you're a teenager. A lack of education both on how not to rape and how to prevent rape can certainly be blamed in this case. But none of this was her fault, she deserved none of what happened to her both that night and everything that happened afterwards.

I completely understand what you're saying, and I do think you're actually right, but I can't honestly say that she is on the same "innocent-level" that other rape victims are. Some rape victims are vulnerable while sober and alert, while she was voluntarily vulnerable by intentionally drinking tons of alcohol around older teenage boys. Yes, she's still a rape victim, and no, it wasn't her fault she was raped, but I feel less sympathetic toward her than I would for a rape victim that was preyed upon solely because they're extremely young/weak compared to the assaulter.

I agree that it's a problem that I (and many others) interpret the case any way other than that she's a victim, but I personally have a problem with teenage drinking and making dumb mistakes because of drugs, alcohol, and peer pressure, which is why I'm less likely to be sympathetic toward her case than other cases. It's the same reason why I'm less sympathetic toward teenager drunk drivers that are killed than the innocent people that are harmed/killed in their accidents. It's the same reason why I'm less sympathetic toward celebrity deaths caused by drugs and alcohol as opposed to any other type of death. That's my own reasoning behind my logic; I know it's not "politically correct" but based on all these things, that's how my opinion was formed on this topic.

[Harry Smith]

1) men get sexually assaulted too, stop being narrow minded
2) its hardly a culture and women live for 80 years so 1/4 isn't terrible and in the UK sexual assault has gone down
3) I think in the minority of cases its avoidable
4) I think your one of them women that see sexism everywhere for example what do yoy think on this? www.youtube.com/watch?client=mv-google&hl=en-GB&gl=GB&v=zwT6DZCQi9k this has been the center of much debate but in reality is just men liking naked women, thats why its there

1) The majority belongs to women.
2) wow, they live for 80 years with PSTD, a fear of men and so many more side effects of rape.
3) That's not an issue, women shouldn't be raped no matter what they wear or do, no-one has a right to commit sexual assault.
4) This isn't relevant at all to the debate about rape, in Britain our police force are so lazy about it, it's a major problem in our society and you can't fog it off as being fine

[FrostWraith]

Unfortunately, the rape culture has not found a median that everyone can agree with; in the Steubenville case, there are tons of people that blamed the victim (almost as much) as the boys. I think this has to do with a lack of education of how to prevent rape; the victim put herself (unknowingly) in a dangerous and risky situation. Lots of people put blame on her for this, but I think girls need to be taught early on to stay away from these environments (underage drinking, drugs, parties, etc.)

However, I do think after that point, there should be some sort of self-guilt. I don't think you should feel like a victim if you do something dangerous and then suffer the consequences; I wouldn't walk alone through a dark alley in a "shady" neighborhood at night. I'm not blaming rape victims on their clothes/fashion, because obviously by wearing "revealing" clothes isn't "asking for it." But there is just some ignorance by youth (nothing new) that nothing bad could ever happen to them; and when it does, they're surprised.

I absolutely agree with this. The issue with rape is that it is so hard to prove; unlike murder, consent is the only difference between something that is completely legal and a major crime. All sexual situations are complicated, and if women send mixed messages (by going to potentially dangerous environments, drinking, wearing revealing clothing), this will vastly increase the chance that men take their actions for consent. Rape is never the fault of the victim, but there are obvious precautions that can/should be taken by potential victims to prevent it, and way too many people don't take these precautions and are sexually assaulted as a result.

[britishboy]

there is no rape culture, the British drinking tea is CULTURE Americans owning guns is CULTURE the Indians liking cricket is CULTURE rape is no culture and to be honest I have no sympathy for those who don't report it and theyre actually allowing the rapist to rape another person and most sexual assault is over reacted

[Jess]

there is no rape culture, the British drinking tea is CULTURE Americans owning guns is CULTURE the Indians liking cricket is CULTURE rape is no culture and to be honest I have no sympathy for those who don't report it and theyre actually allowing the rapist to rape another person and most sexual assault is over reacted

How are most sexual assaults over reacted? I doubt that.

[britishboy]

How are most sexual assaults over reacted? I doubt that.

few are as big as people make them out to be, rape however is

[Harry Smith]

few are as big as people make them out to be, rape however is

Sexual assault no matter what is illegal. They don't make them out to be mad, it's a serous issue and I'm sure if it happened to someone you knew your view would be different.

However I am talking to someone who thinks that 25% of women getting raped isn't a problem..

[Kameraden]

Did you just happen to miss the statistics? One in four women are sexually assaulted, if that's not a problem I don't know what is.

But wait ... you're not a woman so it's not worth talking about, right?

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot -- women are perfect and are always mistreated.

[TheDeepestDepths]

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot -- women are perfect and are always mistreated.

I never said or implied they are perfect. But in the case or rape they are mistreated. When women are raped and when blame for the rape is placed on the woman they are being mistreated, especially when 25% of the female population will face sexual assault. And it's ignorant and plain stupid to say that when one in four women are raped they are 'merely over-reacting'.

[britishboy]

Sexual assault no matter what is illegal. They don't make them out to be mad, it's a serous issue and I'm sure if it happened to someone you knew your view would be different.

However I am talking to someone who thinks that 25% of women getting raped isn't a problem..

its 20% (1 in 5) in britian and ITS NOT OUR CULTURE yes its a problem but so is benefit thiefs and robbers, if they was reported to the police it would be delt with, with the statistics shown on here, most dont report it! allowing the rapist to rape more people! if people reportef it I predict it will be down by at least a 1/3

[Harry Smith]

its 20% (1 in 5) in britian and ITS NOT OUR CULTURE yes its a problem but so is benefit thiefs and robbers, if they was reported to the police it would be delt with, with the statistics shown on here, most dont report it! allowing the rapist to rape more people! if people reportef it I predict it will be down by at least a 1/3

Nice prediction, your pulling numbers out of mid air. where did you get 1/3 from?

There is a general culture of viewing women as sexual objects, people like you seem to encourage sexual assault because it's not serious.

The reason people don't report it is because the police simply don't care, in the past they made victims feel guilty and then when they did stand up the police said their was nothing they could do.

Rape is much much much much much worse than benefit thief, get your priorities right

[TheDeepestDepths]

its 20% (1 in 5) in britian and ITS NOT OUR CULTURE yes its a problem but so is benefit thiefs and robbers, if they was reported to the police it would be delt with, with the statistics shown on here, most dont report it! allowing the rapist to rape more people! if people reported it I predict it will be down by at least a 1/3

The problem is that even when the crime is reported, it is still very unlikely that it will lead to an arrest or prosecution.

http://rainn.org/images/get-information/Statistics/Jailedrapists.jpg

And guess what? Women know this! After being through a traumatic event, the last thing they would want to do is walk into a police station knowing that there is a huge chance they will put themselves through it for nothing.

[britishboy]

Nice prediction, your pulling numbers out of mid air. where did you get 1/3 from?

There is a general culture of viewing women as sexual objects, people like you seem to encourage sexual assault because it's not serious.

The reason people don't report it is because the police simply don't care, in the past they made victims feel guilty and then when they did stand up the police said their was nothing they could do.

Rape is much much much much much worse than benefit thief, get your priorities right

1) I predict on average a rapist will rape 3 people before being reported it sounds logical
2) women are not objects thats an out of date view that few hold
3) I will never encourage sexual assault!
4) no i dont think its the police its because they dont want to talk, are embarrassed, scared or blame themselves however they should still report
5) I never said rape was better?... just that both are crimes and is not a culture

The problem is that even when the crime is reported, it is still very unlikely that it will lead to an arrest or prosecution.

image (http://rainn.org/images/get-information/Statistics/Jailedrapists.jpg)

maybe theres not enough evidence to create a case? thats why thay say tell the police ASAP as they will take DNA samples for evidence

[Harry Smith]

1) I predict on average a rapist will rape 3 people before being reported it sounds logical
2) women are not objects thats an out of date view that few hold
3) I will never encourage sexual assault!
4) no i dont think its the police its because they dont want to talk, are embarrassed, scared or blame themselves however they should still report
5) I never said rape was better?... just that both are crimes and is not a culture

It's not logical, it's hot air. You can't just make up stats like that. What? I know it's an out of date view but western society sexualises women from such a young age, it has push up bras for 11 year girls! Look at the comments of John Inverdale at Wimbledon, high up BBC reported pretty much advocating sexism

You seemed to imply earlier that sexual assault wasn't serious.

and women over react to it, I would say only 1/10 is serious and worth talking about

Look at the Graph provided above, the police are lazy as fuck in dealing with rape- they simply don't care.

Do you really think DNA Proves a Rape case? I thought you had 3 private tutors?

[britishboy]

It's not logical, it's hot air. You can't just make up stats like that. What? I know it's an out of date view but western society sexualises women from such a young age, it has push up bras for 11 year girls! Look at the comments of John Inverdale at Wimbledon, high up BBC reported pretty much advocating sexism

You seemed to imply earlier that sexual assault wasn't serious.



Look at the Graph provided above, the police are lazy as fuck in dealing with rape- they simply don't care.

Do you really think DNA Proves a Rape case? I thought you had 3 private tutors?

1) I said it was my own prediction
2) yes women are sexualized however there is still classy women own there, thats hardly treating women as objects
3)not as serious as rape
4) im sorry lets send the accused rapist to prison because 'she said so' rarely any witnesses DNA and other stuff is needed

[Harry Smith]

1) I said it was my own prediction
2) yes women are sexualized however there is still classy women own there, thats hardly treating women as objects
3)not as serious as rape
4) im sorry lets send the accused rapist to prison because 'she said so' rarely any witnesses DNA and other stuff is needed

That doesn't make it any more valid does it? Classy women? What the fuck are you on about? It's still serouis and just as traumatic, how would you feel if someone touched up your girlfriend, if they touched her sexually, would you feel the same?

Did I say that? No. I was laughing at you for thinking DNA solves a case, Christ all DNA proves it that they had sex-the man can claim it's consensual

[britishboy]

That doesn't make it any more valid does it? Classy women? What the fuck are you on about? It's still serouis and just as traumatic, how would you feel if someone touched up your girlfriend, if they touched her sexually, would you feel the same?

Did I say that? No. I was laughing at you for thinking DNA solves a case, Christ all DNA proves it that they had sex-the man can claim it's consensual

1) haha if you do that to my gf she'll give you a black eye:P she has a lot of pride in herself
2)oh sorry I misinterpreted but of course he will form a defense what I was saying is that the police are not lazy if theres no DNA and litraly nothing eles other than the accusation, they could have just fallen out!

[Harry Smith]

1) haha if you do that to my gf she'll give you a black eye:P she has a lot of pride in herself
2)oh sorry I misinterpreted but of course he will form a defense what I was saying is that the police are not lazy if theres no DNA and litraly nothing eles other than the accusation, they could have just fallen out!

That is why so much rape is un-reported right there

[britishboy]

That is why so much rape is un-reported right there

the longer you wait the less chance you have, I think the first few days is shock... then its too late, its sad but unavoidable legal problem

[TheDeepestDepths]

1) I predict on average a rapist will rape 3 people before being reported it sounds logical
2) women are not objects thats an out of date view that few hold
3) I will never encourage sexual assault!
4) no i dont think its the police its because they dont want to talk, are embarrassed, scared or blame themselves however they should still report
5) I never said rape was better?... just that both are crimes and is not a culture

Women are treated like objects, you need only look at advertisements to see that. Check out the first video on this website (http://www.jeankilbourne.com/videos/), it describes it much better than I could.

By saying that that fact that one in four women are sexually assaulted you are feeding the widespread mindset that sexual assault is not a problem. This is the mindset that rapists feed into. Mindsets like this encourage them to assault women.

According to Wikipedia: "The attitude of the police in many countries often discourages victims from reporting rape: one study in Turkey found that 33% of police officers agreed with the assertion that "some women deserve rape" and 66% agreed that "the physical appearance and behaviors of women tempt men to rape." Women don't report rape because we are conditioned to believe that we will not be believed.

You have been given a definition for rape culture and how it applies to our society. Give evidence to the contrary and maybe we can have a proper debate.

[Its Pretty]

The problem is that even when the crime is reported, it is still very unlikely that it will lead to an arrest or prosecution.

image (http://rainn.org/images/get-information/Statistics/Jailedrapists.jpg)

And guess what? Women know this! After being through a traumatic event, the last thing they would want to do is walk into a police station knowing that there is a huge chance they will put themselves through it for nothing.

How much of the 3% actually gets sufficiently punished? Not much....
People are assholes. They take advantage of each other and they don't recieve punishment due to the virtually useless justice system. If 5% of men are rapists and 25% of women are raped the each rapist rapes an average of 5 women. If, in an ideal society, all the rapists were neutered and jailed then the amount of raped women would decline to 5%. This figure would also slowly decline over time as the rapists have no means to reproduce and spread their genes and the type of sick degenerate that would ever think of rape would slowly disappear...

[Harry Smith]

the longer you wait the less chance you have, I think the first few days is shock... then its too late, its sad but unavoidable legal problem

No, women don't report rape out of fear that they will be accused of being a liar, of having their character dragged through the dirt. You seem to think that women use rape as tool to get back at men, something which could be applied to any crime

[StoppingTime]

the longer you wait the less chance you have, I think the first few days is shock... then its too late, its sad but unavoidable legal problem

lolwut. That's not even true in the least. In the US if a woman (or man, but it's much much less likely) goes to an accredited hospital after being raped, she has two options. She can either report it then and there, or wait. Either way the hospital takes all evidence they can (clothing, samples, etc) and keep it in a Rape Kit. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_kit) After that, I believe the victim has around two years to report the incident and press charges.

[britishboy]

lolwut. That's not even true in the least. In the US if a woman (or man, but it's much much less likely) goes to an accredited hospital after being raped, she has two options. She can either report it then and there, or wait. Either way the hospital takes all evidence they can (clothing, samples, etc) and keep it in a Rape Kit. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_kit) After that, I believe the victim has around two years to report the incident and press charges.

yep but if you walk home get changed have a shower, a week later its a lot harder to build up a case

No, women don't report rape out of fear that they will be accused of being a liar, of having their character dragged through the dirt. You seem to think that women use rape as tool to get back at men, something which could be applied to any crime

I dont think they will be accused of being a liar however peoples respect for them will go down

[Its Pretty]

Women are treated like objects, you need only look at advertisements to see that. Check out the first video on this website (http://www.jeankilbourne.com/videos/), it describes it much better than I could.

By saying that that fact that one in four women are sexually assaulted you are feeding the widespread mindset that sexual assault is not a problem. This is the mindset that rapists feed into. Mindsets like this encourage them to assault women.

According to Wikipedia: "The attitude of the police in many countries often discourages victims from reporting rape: one study in Turkey found that 33% of police officers agreed with the assertion that "some women deserve rape" and 66% agreed that "the physical appearance and behaviors of women tempt men to rape." Women don't report rape because we are conditioned to believe that we will not be believed.

You have been given a definition for rape culture and how it applies to our society. Give evidence to the contrary and maybe we can have a proper debate.
Those figures sound awfully similar to 1/3 and 2/3. How many officers were included in this study? Was it 3? 6? And yes, very revealing clothings and such do tempt men to rape. Why was appealing clothing invented? Because it attracts men. That is not to say they deserve rape or it is their fault. And about that video, it's not just about women, the other sex has it just as bad.

[britishboy]

Women are treated like objects, you need only look at advertisements to see that. Check out the first video on this website (http://www.jeankilbourne.com/videos/), it describes it much better than I could.

By saying that that fact that one in four women are sexually assaulted you are feeding the widespread mindset that sexual assault is not a problem. This is the mindset that rapists feed into. Mindsets like this encourage them to assault women.

According to Wikipedia: "The attitude of the police in many countries often discourages victims from reporting rape: one study in Turkey found that 33% of police officers agreed with the assertion that "some women deserve rape" and 66% agreed that "the physical appearance and behaviors of women tempt men to rape." Women don't report rape because we are conditioned to believe that we will not be believed.

You have been given a definition for rape culture and how it applies to our society. Give evidence to the contrary and maybe we can have a proper debate.

1) I dress nice, I go topless on beaches, why? to show off my self and look nice! if I was single I would be ATTRACTING girls, does that make me an object? you use tgat phrase so loosely, when someone are treated as an object, they are threatened by there partner, abused and have to live their life how the partner wants.
2) Turkey is largely Islamic so will hold that view, what developed countries, and women who dress slutty do attract them, again what happens in Turkey is NOT our society
3) in my country crime is down
m.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales

[Harry Smith]

yep but if you walk home get changed have a shower, a week later its a lot harder to build up a case



I dont think they will be accused of being a liar however peoples respect for them will go down

Once again No. How does it take a week to have a shower? You've got actors at the moment being charged with rape cases from 30 years ago, the time of a crime shouldn't matter one bit

Exactly. And that's 100% wrong, I really hope you don't agree with that sentiment. It's never your fault if your get raped, this is the culture that exists in Britain, the idea the women is at fauly

[britishboy]

Once again No. How does it take a week to have a shower? You've got actors at the moment being charged with rape cases from 30 years ago, the time of a crime shouldn't matter one bit

Exactly. And that's 100% wrong, I really hope you don't agree with that sentiment. It's never your fault if your get raped, this is the culture that exists in Britain, the idea the women is at fauly

1) its harder to build a case
2) no its never ever your fault however if a girl is slutty she must encourage it, I think its more pride in yourself why people dont report it

[Harry Smith]

1) its harder to build a case
2) no its never ever your fault however if a girl is slutty she must encourage it, I think its more pride in yourself why people dont report it

It's really not, the girl doesn't have to care about building a job, that's the job of her lawyer and the courts.Why does it matter if a girl dresses slutty? You can wear whatever you want, you shouldn't feel at risk because of your clothing choices. Men don't have a right to rape, every man can control his body. It's a serious crime which you seem to be encouraging

[britishboy]

It's really not, the girl doesn't have to care about building a job, that's the job of her lawyer and the courts.Why does it matter if a girl dresses slutty? You can wear whatever you want, you shouldn't feel at risk because of your clothing choices. Men don't have a right to rape, every man can control his body. It's a serious crime which you seem to be encouraging

1) not all men are rapists, few are, its giving men a bad name
2) im not encouraging rape
3) loads of cases are dropped for lack of evidence
4) yes it is a crime! what im moaning about is, assuming all men are rapists and its not our culture! its not even indias culture!

[Harry Smith]

assuming all men are rapists and its not our culture! its not even indias culture!

Wow, your stupid. I never said all men are rapists, seriously this whole macho regime is just making you look like a silly little boy. It's our culture to blame women for wearing the wrong clothes, it's our culture to sexualize women.

And please you didn't say that about India, I'm going to ignore it because wow could you be anymore blind? You've got a culture where men feel they have a right to rape women in india, the police don't care about it one bit.

Rape culture is a concept which links rape and sexual violence to the culture of a society,[1] and in which prevalent attitudes and practices normalize, excuse, tolerate, or even condone rape.[2]

It's engraved in India from the bottom, the whole patriarchal society, the idea that men can get away with what they want. The ownership of women is a problem in India, your blind if you think otherwise

[britishboy]

Wow, your stupid. I never said all men are rapists, seriously this whole macho regime is just making you look like a silly little boy. It's our culture to blame women for wearing the wrong clothes, it's our culture to sexualize women.

And please you didn't say that about India, I'm going to ignore it because wow could you be anymore blind? You've got a culture where men feel they have a right to rape women in india, the police don't care about it one bit.



It's engraved in India from the bottom, the whole patriarchal society, the idea that men can get away with what they want. The ownership of women is a problem in India, your blind if you think otherwise

1) just like racism its hardly a problem if ive never seen it etc etc
2) yes we sexualize women but they sexualize men its harmless and many girls still have class
3)definition of culture: the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society
do you still believe its out culture?

[TheDeepestDepths]

Those figures sound awfully similar to 1/3 and 2/3. How many officers were included in this study? Was it 3? 6? And yes, very revealing clothings and such do tempt men to rape. Why was appealing clothing invented? Because it attracts men. That is not to say they deserve rape or it is their fault. And about that video, it's not just about women, the other sex has it just as bad.

To say that a woman's clothing choice is the reason for a rape, you are saying that men are self-gratifying almost animals with no morals. Which is wrong! Many other men who saw that woman managed to, you know, not rape her. You are saying they have no control over their actions which is taking responsibility away from the man for his actions.

They video was merely to show that, yes, women are objectified. I never said men weren't but they certainly aren't to the extent that women are and not in the same way.

1) I dress nice, I go topless on beaches, why? to show off my self and look nice! if I was single I would be ATTRACTING girls, does that make me an object? You use that phrase so loosely, when someone are treated as an object, they are threatened by there partner, abused and have to live their life how the partner wants.
2) Turkey is largely Islamic so will hold that view, what developed countries, and women who dress slutty do attract them, again what happens in Turkey is NOT our society
3) in my country crime is down
m.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales

1) So any woman not in a relationship cannot be treated like an object? Bullshit! When a woman walking down a street and someone across the road makes a lewd comment or wolf whistles. They are making the woman an object! They care little for her feelings, her desire to feel safe on the streets etc. and only care about themselves and being crass. To treat someone like an object is to treat them like anything less than a human, you don't have to know the person to do that.

2) I was just using some statistics to prove that you were wrong when you said that police would always be on the victims side. Because they're not!

3) Fine. Crime is down? Great! Rape is happening less than it did? Fantastic! But it's not gone and the figures are still horrifyingly high.

1) just like racism its hardly a problem if ive never seen it etc etc
2) yes we sexualize women but they sexualize men its harmless and many girls still have class
3)definition of culture: the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society
do you still believe its out culture?

1) Not quite sure what you're trying to say here? If you're saying that it doesn't happen because you haven't seen it, you're wrong. Racism and rape are problems whether or not you're a sheltered privileged asshat.

2) "Many girls still have class" What? That has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Does the sexualisation of men threaten their safety? The video showed how the way women are treated by the media affects their health and safety.

3) Yes! It comes under Social Behaviour. When women are blamed for the actions of men and responsibility is laid on them for a very traumatic event, this is rape culture at work.

[britishboy]

l
1) So any woman not in a relationship cannot be treated like an object? Bullshit! When a woman walking down a street and someone across the road makes a lewd comment or wolf whistles. They are making the woman an object! They care little for her feelings, her desire to feel safe on the streets etc. and only care about themselves and being crass. To treat someone like an object is to treat them like anything less than a human, you don't have to know the person to do that.

2) I was just using some statistics to prove that you were wrong when you said that police would always be on the victims side. Because they're not!

3) Fine. Crime is down? Great! Rape is happening less than it did? Fantastic! But it's not gone and the figures are still horrifyingly high.


1) its called flirting, its not treating them less human, when a girl flirts with me is she treating me like a object? no.

2) depends on the country in question and its legal system

3) you have a point but I prefer to look at the positive side of this

[Harry Smith]

1) just like racism its hardly a problem if ive never seen it etc etc
2) yes we sexualize women but they sexualize men its harmless and many girls still have class
3)definition of culture: the ideas, customs, and social behaviour of a particular people or society
do you still believe its out culture?

Wow, your silly. Just because you can't see it does't mean it's a problem, I haven't seen tiger hunting- it's still a problem, I haven't seen the war in Syria-it's still a problem, I haven't seen poverty in India- it's still a problem. Your mentally retarded if you believe that the only problems are one that you've seen.

Class? What does class have to with a rape debate? Your sounding like a little posh boy mate.

Yes, due to the fact you've shown the classic signs on rape culture.

Victim blaming-if a girl is slutty she must encourage it,
Trivialization-women over react to it, I would say only 1/10 is serious and worth talking about

Examples of behaviors commonly associated with rape culture include victim blaming and trivializing rape

You've proved my point correct, thanks

[britishboy]

Wow, your silly. Just because you can't see it does't mean it's a problem, I haven't seen tiger hunting- it's still a problem, I haven't seen the war in Syria-it's still a problem, I haven't seen poverty in India- it's still a problem. Your mentally retarded if you believe that the only problems are one that you've seen.

Class? What does class have to with a rape debate? Your sounding like a little posh boy mate.

Yes, due to the fact you've shown the classic signs on rape culture.

Victim blaming-
Trivialization-



You've proved my point correct, thanks

1) thats the other side of the planet
2) IT IS NOT OUR CULTURE TO RAP
3) im not blaming my victim but its true that a slutty dressed girl is more likely to get raped, one doesn't have to be a scientist to work that out

[Harry Smith]

1) thats the other side of the planet
2) IT IS NOT OUR CULTURE TO RAP
3) im not blaming my victim but its true that a slutty dressed girl is more likely to get raped, one doesn't have to be a scientist to work that out

okay, I haven't seen mosques getting blown up- that's a problem, I haven't seen muslims getting stabbed-that's a problem. I haven't seen drink drivers- that's a problem.

Your not going to see every problem in the world, your one person.

It's not our culture to rap? I hope you mean rape, I've shown how in fact it is, you've both trivialized and blamed victims of rape, the hallmark of a rape culture

Actually it's not, that's just your way of swifting the blame. Women should be able to wear whatever they wear.

Many women are led to believe that if they are not part of a certain category of women then they are 'safe' from being raped. Women and girls of all ages, classes, culture, ability, sexuality, race and faith are raped. Attractiveness has little significance. Reports show that there is a great diversity in the way targeted women act or dress. Rapists choose women based on their vulnerability not their physical appearance. Only 9% of rapes occur from strangers, this shows that dress doesn't matter- it's the women who matters, if your theory was correct then rape wouldn't happen in the middle east

[britishboy]

okay, I haven't seen mosques getting blown up- that's a problem, I haven't seen muslims getting stabbed-that's a problem. I haven't seen drink drivers- that's a problem.

Your not going to see every problem in the world, your one person.

It's not our culture to rap? I hope you mean rape, I've shown how in fact it is, you've both trivialized and blamed victims of rape, the hallmark of a rape culture

Actually it's not, that's just your way of swifting the blame. Women should be able to wear whatever they wear.

Many women are led to believe that if they are not part of a certain category of women then they are 'safe' from being raped. Women and girls of all ages, classes, culture, ability, sexuality, race and faith are raped. Attractiveness has little significance. Reports show that there is a great diversity in the way targeted women act or dress. Rapists choose women based on their vulnerability not their physical appearance. Only 9% of rapes occur from strangers, this shows that dress doesn't matter- it's the women who matters, if your theory was correct then rape wouldn't happen in the middle east

1) of course not, but its not everywhere is it?
2) ive not blamed victims but I have said thay may have encouraged it
3) they can where whatever
4) but on the day of the rape, what made the rapest want to rape the victim?
5) the middle east is a completely different story

[Harry Smith]

1) of course not, but its not everywhere is it?
2) ive not blamed victims but I have said thay may have encouraged it
3) they can where whatever
4) but on the day of the rape, what made the rapest want to rape the victim?
5) the middle east is a completely different story

Yes, rape occurs all around the world. Encouraged rape? That's like saying if I walk outside with a wallet in my pocket I'm encouraging muggings. 91% of rape is by a friend, acquaintance or family member. This isn't as a result of clothing at all, this is to do with power.

People from the age of 3 to 90 are raped, it's not to do with what they wear- it's to do with the fact they have a vagina.

[britishboy]

Yes, rape occurs all around the world. Encouraged rape? That's like saying if I walk outside with a wallet in my pocket I'm encouraging muggings. 91% of rape is by a friend, aqquitance or family member. This isn't as a result of clothing at all, this is to do with power.

People from the age of 3 to 90 are raped, it's not to do with what they wear- it's to do with the fact they have a vagina.

1)if you wave the wallet around shouting its filled with money, yes you are
2) we must agree to disagree on reasons why as I will only accept you opinion if your a rapist
3) men get raped too, in america a teenaged boy was violently raped by a gay man in the street

[Harry Smith]

1)if you wave the wallet around shouting its filled with money, yes you are
2) we must agree to disagree on reasons why as I will only accept you opinion if your a rapist
3) men get raped too, in america a teenaged boy was violently raped by a gay man in the street

I give up with you, your beyond stupid. You will only accept my view if I'm a rapist? You should become a lawyer, good luck in court.

Are you suggesting that a 90 year old women is raped because of her clothing, or a 3 year old girl.

In countries like Saudi Arabia women are covered up head to toe, if your clothing theory was correct then rape wouldn't exist out there due to lack of 'sexual' esque clothing

[TheDeepestDepths]

1) of course not, but its not everywhere is it?
2) ive not blamed victims but I have said thay may have encouraged it
3) they can where whatever
4) but on the day of the rape, what made the rapest want to rape the victim?
5) the middle east is a completely different story

Your second point is ridiculous. If you say the woman encouraged it than you are blaming her. Any person has the right to back out of a sexual encounter at any time. If she thought she wanted sex and then changed her mind and said "no". If the sex goes ahead it is still rape. The girl made some really stupid decisions but the guy needs to take responsibility for not backing off when he heard the word 'no'.

Not all rapists rape for the same reasons. This is a concept that a lot of people struggle with. The most common and thought of reason is control and power. Sex is usually a secondary desire. But they also do it because they have a warped idea they need to prove their masculinity; they are angry and need to vent their anger on someone and women are easy targets; also because they derived sexual pleasure from inflicting torture. They find the suffering and torment of their victim erotic.

All these different reason mean that each rapist may have a different reason for choosing their particular victim.

Why is India different? Because it tears your carefully idealised argument apart? Because you don't have an argument against it? Because all men in India can't help themselves and act like animals? Give a reason and we'll debate it.

[britishboy]

I give up with you, your beyond stupid. You will only accept my view if I'm a rapist? You should become a lawyer, good luck in court.

Are you suggesting that a 90 year old women is raped because of her clothing, or a 3 year old girl.

In countries like Saudi Arabia women are covered up head to toe, if your clothing theory was correct then rape wouldn't exist out there due to lack of 'sexual' esque clothing

1) I never said every case was like that
2) its a different case there, if one goes up to a gangster and says 'FUCK YOU' and he pulls out a fully automatic rifle and blows you to pieces, the murder is his fault but the person shouting the abuse encouraged it
3) back to my original points, its unfair to blame all men, men are raped themselves and its going down and only a problem for a few

[Sugaree]

Once again No. How does it take a week to have a shower? You've got actors at the moment being charged with rape cases from 30 years ago, the time of a crime shouldn't matter one bit

Actually, it should matter. With a crime like rape, where evidence disappears quickly, there has to be a statue of limitations. Even if the accusation were true, you can't wait 30 years and expect a full conviction without any evidence to back up your claim.

[Harry Smith]

1) I never said every case was like that
2) its a different case there, if one goes up to a gangster and says 'FUCK YOU' and he pulls out a fully automatic rifle and blows you to pieces, the murder is his fault but the person shouting the abuse encouraged it
3) back to my original points, its unfair to blame all men, men are raped themselves and its going down and only a problem for a few

That means nothing in the eyes of law, it doesn't matter if the person swore at them, they have no right to commit murder, it's not your fault if the person using violence to pursue their cause.

Did I blame all men? No. Only a problem for few, 1/4 American women, 1/5 British women. That's not good numbers at all

Actually, it should matter. With a crime like rape, where evidence disappears quickly, there has to be a statue of limitations. Even if the accusation were true, you can't wait 30 years and expect a full conviction without any evidence to back up your claim.

I agree with the premise of that, I just want to see a more active role by the police in every rape case whether the evidence is DNA based or personality based

[britishboy]

That means nothing in the eyes of law, it doesn't matter if the person swore at them, they have no right to commit murder, it's not your fault if the person using violence to pursue their cause.

Did I blame all men? No. Only a problem for few, 1/4 American women, 1/5 British women. That's not good numbers at all

1) completely true
2) no not good numbers but if people reported it they would go down, the police should be encouraging people to report

[StoppingTime]

yep but if you walk home get changed have a shower, a week later its a lot harder to build up a case

Which is exactly why victims of rape should know this is what they should not do. They should go to the hospital, and from there decide if/when to press charges.


you use tgat phrase so loosely, when someone are treated as an object, they are threatened by there partner, abused and have to live their life how the partner wants.

k. When someone says "X person is treated like an object" it means someone is dehumanizing them and treating them as if they are only good for what they provide, not who they are, or anything like that. So no, you're generalizing.


and women who dress slutty do attract them,

and women who dress slutty do attract them,
[COLOR="Red"]
and women who dress slutty do attract them,

Just wanted to make sure everyone saw that. What are you implying?


again what happens in Turkey is NOT our society
3) in my country crime is down
m.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/14/crime-statistics-england-wales

Just because some things don't happen in your country doesn't mean they aren't a problem.

Thousands of people are being murdered in Syria but it's not a problem because it's Syria. Oh that doesn't matter, I don't live there.



I think its more pride in yourself why people dont report it

Then you are one ill-informed person. People don't report rape cases because they are so ashamed of what happened, ashamed they couldn't do fix it themselves, ashamed they were "so weak." Of course it isn't their fault it happened, but that's not something that's easy to understand after the incident. So before you go dictating to people what they feel, sit down and think about it.


1) just like racism its hardly a problem if ive never seen it etc etc

Just like you only care about your own situation youve never seen it etc etc
..


2) yes we sexualize women but they sexualize men its harmless and many girls still have class

What even. No, just, stop

[Harry Smith]

1) completely true
2) no not good numbers but if people reported it they would go down, the police should be encouraging people to report

That's the real problem of society, it's a double edged sword. A women get's called a liar, get's blamed for the rape and has to relieve the experience in court.

[britishboy]

That's the real problem of society, it's a double edged sword. A women get's called a liar, get's blamed for the rape and has to relieve the experience in court.

completly agree and with no witnesses (in most cases) the victim solely relies on the evidence. I think they should advertise it more, the first thing you do is go to hospital and construct a rape kit

[Stronk Serb]

Rape should be punished- by rape. If a man rapes a woman, that same man would be violated in a very similar way, but harder, and more painful. And yes, rape reporting needs to become more common, nobody deserves to be raped.

[britishboy]

Rape should be punished- by rape. If a man rapes a woman, that same man would be violated in a very similar way, but harder. Also add a prison sentence.

no thats some evil communist far right punishment, we should be more civilized

[Stronk Serb]

no thats some evil communist far right punishment, we should be more civilized

Actually, the idea I had was used on prisoners languishing in Turkish dungeons during the Osman rule. But is it civilized for a 50-60 year old man to rape a 15 year old girl? No, it's disgusting, and that man does not just deserve a prison sentence, he deserves to feel how that girl felt, defiled, violated, helpless, the pain... The mental pain...

[britishboy]

Actually, the idea I had was used on prisoners languishing in Turkish dungeons during the Osman rule. But is it civilized for a 50-60 year old man to rape a 15 year old girl? No, it's disgusting, and that man does not just deserve a prison sentence, he deserves to feel how that girl felt, defiled, violated, helpless, the pain... The mental pain...

I agree honestly I do! but how to humanly enforce it? who will do it? and if he turns out to be innocent? I personlly think prisoners should be put to work but humain work not North Korean work

[Stronk Serb]

I agree honestly I do! but how to humanly enforce it? who will do it? and if he turns out to be innocent? I personlly think prisoners should be put to work but humain work not North Korean work

Machines should do the punishing. The investigation should be a lot more thorough before passing the sentence. What are you talking about? North Korean prisoners get their asses worked off, unless it is a political prisoner, he gets tortured and then executed or sent to work.

[britishboy]

Machines should do the punishing. The investigation should be a lot more thorough before passing the sentence. What are you talking about? North Korean prisoners get their asses worked off, unless it is a political prisoner, he gets tortured and then executed or sent to work.

1) thats barbaric and worse than communist torture thats something you would expect if you punchef kim jong un in the face! its barbaric!
2) North Korean prisoners die during their work, I mean good work like harvesting but well fed and givern breaks
3) all punishments should be civil, this is the 21st century

[Stronk Serb]

1) thats barbaric and worse than communist torture thats something you would expect if you punchef kim jong un in the face! its barbaric!
2) North Korean prisoners die during their work, I mean good work like harvesting but well fed and givern breaks
3) all punishments should be civil, this is the 21st century

Why do they deserve to be treated civil?

[britishboy]

Why do they deserve to be treated civil?

because were civil ourselves

[Stronk Serb]

because were civil ourselves

That makes no sense. Just because you were civil enough not to do anything major like rape means that you should treat people who did it the same way? No. I would punish rapists in such a way that it would make the perverted pleasure they got from raping their victims seem like getting killed over one dollar, totally not worth it.

[Harry Smith]

That makes no sense. Just because you were civil enough not to do anything major like rape means that you should treat people who did it the same way? No. I would punish rapists in such a way that it would make the perverted pleasure they got from raping their victims seem like getting killed over one dollar, totally not worth it.

That won't discourage rape at all, these barbaric methods have been tried and failed. We need to reform and educate prisoners, not treat them like sub humans.

Article 5 of the universal deceleration of human rights states that No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. You can't ignore a major treaty