Grammar

[TheDeepestDepths]

Does anyone here know grammar? I'm not talking about full stops, capital letters, etc. I'm talking about hard-core grammar like intransitive verbs and complex prepositions. Even more minor things, like when to use semicolons and when commas are not appropriate.

Do you think this type of grammar should be taught in schools as part of English class?

[britishboy]

I dont know what you do in Ireland but it is taught in the uk and were marked for it in tests

[Camazotz]

Yes, grammar should be taught in English class as it's a part of the English language. It's an important foundation to understanding one another, and it's essential when writing serious pieces of work. Even simple things, like punctuation, can change the meaning of an idea. For example...

"Let's eat, Grandpa!"
"Let's eat Grandpa!"

[Origami]

While I am aware of what both a transitive verb and a complex preposition are I was never informed during school of their existence. I'll assume the teacher chose to skip over them since you don't really have to know what either is. We use them subconsciously even when we're unaware of what they are. And yes, we were taught when to properly use a semicolon and a comma. Although, I am quite guilty of using too many commas at times.

That's the good ol' American education system for you though. Letting you down one step at a time.

[Jess]

I thought those were already taught in English class. It was in my high school........

[britishboy]

I thought those were already taught in English class. It was in my high school........

I think they only dont teach it in Ireland

[Abyssal Echo]

While I am aware of what both a transitive verb and a complex preposition are I was never informed during school of their existence. I'll assume the teacher chose to skip over them since you don't really have to know what either is. We use them subconsciously even when we're unaware of what they are. And yes, we were taught when to properly use a semicolon and a comma. Although, I am quite guilty of using too many commas at times.

That's the good ol' American education system for you though. Letting you down one step at a time.

I have to agree with Origami. the education system here in the U.S. kinda sucks or at least some of the teachers do. I'm very weak in English / Grammar skills. I'm guessing it started in 4th grade. I had a Hispanic teacher he taught us Spanish instead of English. Last year (10th grade)I tried to get help from my English teacher all I got was her BS and a failing grade by the end of 1st Quarter. I could go on but, what is the point. Besides its getting off the OP topic.

[Origami]

I thought those were already taught in English class. It was in my high school........

It depends entirely upon the school. I discovered them on my own since my high school never mentioned them to us. Despite being in AP level courses, they still left them out.

[TheDeepestDepths]

I think they only don't teach it in Ireland.

Haha, maybe it is just in my school where we are not taught anything but the basics. We weren't taught much more than when to use full stops and capitals. Most of the hard-core grammar I know was due to personal interest, as opposed to learning it in schools.

If it's taught in schools then why do so many people get it wrong? Not so much in VT but anywhere else on the internet there's an abundance of grammatical errors; is that just due to carelessness if it's not ignorance?

[Origami]

Haha, maybe it is just in my school where we are not taught anything but the basics. We weren't taught much more than when to use full stops and capitals. Most of the hard-core grammar I know was due to personal interest, as opposed to learning it in schools.

If it's taught in schools then why do so many people get it wrong? Not so much in VT but anywhere else on the internet there's an abundance of grammatical errors; is that just due to carelessness if it's not ignorance?

It's generally due to the fact that they just don't care.

[SosbanFach]

I haven't yet covered this stuff in school specifically; we were basically just left to work it out for ourselves. That said, I have to question the importance of being able to name transitive verbs or complex prepositions. Provided a student is able to write in fluent and competent English, and use complex structures, of what advantage is identifying a subjunctive against an indicative?

[britishboy]

Haha, maybe it is just in my school where we are not taught anything but the basics. We weren't taught much more than when to use full stops and capitals. Most of the hard-core grammar I know was due to personal interest, as opposed to learning it in schools.

If it's taught in schools then why do so many people get it wrong? Not so much in VT but anywhere else on the internet there's an abundance of grammatical errors; is that just due to carelessness if it's not ignorance?

lol I think its your school and I think it's people being lazy and then not caring

[TheDeepestDepths]

I haven't yet covered this stuff in school specifically; we were basically just left to work it out for ourselves. That said, I have to question the importance of being able to name transitive verbs or complex prepositions. Provided a student is able to write in fluent and competent English, and use complex structures, of what advantage is identifying a subjunctive against an indicative?

Well I think it could depend on the specific person whether it matters or not. Personally, I like to know the terminology for the different aspects of grammar because it helps me work out whether something is correct or not.

If I think, "Well this series of words in front of me is made up of two independent clauses, joined by a transitional phrase." Then I know that I can't use a comma between the two clauses, and if I want it to be a single sentence I have to use a semicolon.

[Kameraden]

lol I think its your school and I think it's people being lazy and then not caring

And you, as well.

[britishboy]

And you, as well.

yep I have a life

[Kameraden]

yep I have a life

No, you obviously do not.

You're fourteen -- your life right now is to learn and retain all the information offered to you. If you mess around and treat school like a joke, you will regret it when you will not be hired by anyone in the future. People like you make me feel dirty; and, I would expect more from a Briton.

[Jess]

Haha, maybe it is just in my school where we are not taught anything but the basics. We weren't taught much more than when to use full stops and capitals. Most of the hard-core grammar I know was due to personal interest, as opposed to learning it in schools.

If it's taught in schools then why do so many people get it wrong? Not so much in VT but anywhere else on the internet there's an abundance of grammatical errors; is that just due to carelessness if it's not ignorance?

Maybe they forgot some of them?

[britishboy]

No, you obviously do not.

You're fourteen -- your life right now is to learn and retain all the information offered to you. If you mess around and treat school like a joke, you will regret it when you will not be hired by anyone in the future. People like you make me feel dirty; and, I would expect more from a Briton.

I'm confused? How does one's relaxed typing, talking to you, not using full grammar reflect one's English skills? If you was important, a business partner, an employee or an English exam I would be using full English but as my language skills doesn't matter at all, I'm going to continue being relaxed. This is an online forum, one may speak how one wants.

[Stronk Serb]

In my elementary school, I was one of the rare people to fluently read and speak English, so I understand why they did not teach us the more complex stuff, but not to teach it in an area where English is widely spoken is bad. It should be taught at the end of elementary or at the beginning of high school.

[tovaris]

Not for the englis language, but for my own. And since you are asking englis is alredy taught frew gramer (all the continueses and the simples, abd the perfects, than the if clauses and pasive...) so boring, make your head spin.

[Rina]

I think grammar is important and it is taught at my school. I didn't learn much this year, though, because apparently the whole curriculum was just reading books and writing persuasive essays like if my teacher this year had been my teacher earlier, I would be able to write a persuasive essay, but my grammar would be shot.

[saea97]

Godwin's Law invoked alarmingly quickly in this particular thread: lock imminent?

[britishboy]

Already said it, and I use you as my proof.

proof of what? people have better things to do than post on forums as if it was an exam, lol you wanna see how I text my friends!:P

[TheDeepestDepths]

I'm struggling to understand how to two of you have managed to turn a discussion on grammar into a juvenile argument on a horrific and devastating war.


I realise I'm not a Mod but please do not throw about insults like this on a thread I started, especially when the topic was originally supposed to be about grammar. Calling somebody a Nazi in this day and age is shockingly ignorant and callous. You do realise that Kameraden would have had nothing to do with the war and the decisions that were made don't you?

There is no love or respect between the German people and the memory of Adolph Hitler.

A friend of mine lived in Germany once and I was shocked when she told me the length and content of information German school children are taught about Hitler, the Nazis, the Holocaust, and WWII.

Hitler and the Nazis are not just a sore point but a horribly shameful event in their otherwise proud history... a blood mark that will never disappear.

Germans did not tear down or destroy old Nazi structures or monuments, they kept them. Because they are ashamed and horrified at what atrocities were committed, even though they had nothing to do with it.

Do not throw around insults like "Nazi" and bicker about the war - it proves nothing and does not back up your point. This thread is about grammar. Fucking talk about grammar.

[Kameraden]

proof of what? people have better things to do than post on forums as if it was an exam, lol you wanna see how I text my friends!:P

If you paid even the slightest amount of attention during English, you would type with proper English. It's honestly more difficult to use improper English than it is to use proper English.

[Origami]

If you paid even the slightest amount of attention during English, you would type with proper English. It's honestly more difficult to use improper English than it is to use proper English.

False. I know of valedictorians who type with near shit tier grammar. When it comes to an online forum or text messaging it is all about preference. No amount of trolling is going to change that either.

[britishboy]

If you paid even the slightest amount of attention during English, you would type with proper English. It's honestly more difficult to use improper English than it is to use proper English.

you think I write relaxed for the good of my health? im doing it because its quicker

[TheDeepestDepths]

-unnecessary continuation of argument removed. -Emerald Dream

you think I write relaxed for the good of my health? im doing it because its quicker

Honestly, I don't find it quicker. I care about what I'm saying so when I write it's subconscious for me to hit the apostrophe and shift buttons. I find it slower to use bad grammar because I have to think about what I'm typing and consciously leave out buttons. If you thought about grammar and how you came across at the start your grammar would be fine too.

[Emerald Dream]

Please stop with the unnecessary arguing, insults, and nitpicking. Stay on topic or this thread will be locked quickly, and you'll be hearing from me individually.

[FrostWraith]

American schools no longer teach grammar. They'd point out that since we have spell check anyway and content is more important than syntax, knowing complex names of grammatical terms has no practical application. It's like making Latin a mandatory subject; what's the point?

[Origami]

American schools no longer teach grammar. They'd point out that since we have spell check anyway and content is more important than syntax, knowing complex names of grammatical terms has no practical application. It's like making Latin a mandatory subject; what's the point?

Your school might not have, but most schools I know of teach grammar. I was never taught to rely on spell check.

[Capto]

It's nigh impossible to clump 'American schools' into one category.

[CacaoToCacao]

I am a grammar and punctuation fanatic. I have to always use proper grammar or else I would go insane. Not many people I know are as bad about it as I am; I've always used proper English whenever I'm speaking and/or typing.