Humans are Herbivores (They Should Not Eat Meat)

[Nellerin]

Since my last post (regarding Hunting) was closed down since it got off topic and began to stray into the health effects of eating meat, I decided to make an actual thread regarding Humans and the FACT that they are Herbivores and not Omnivores and definitely not Carnivores.

One you realize this, hunting sort of fixes itself, since there is no need for it (since we should never eat meat.)

Dr. T. Colin Campbell, professor emeritus at Cornell University and author of The China Study, explains that in fact, we only recently (historically speaking) began eating meat, and that the inclusion of meat in our diet came well after we became who we are today. He explains that "the birth of agriculture only started about 10,000 years ago at a time when it became considerably more convenient to herd animals. This is not nearly as long as the time [that] fashioned our basic biochemical functionality (at least tens of millions of years) and which functionality depends on the nutrient composition of plant-based foods." 1

Sure, most of us are "behavioral omnivores"--that is, we eat meat, so that defines us as omnivorous. But our evolution and physiology are herbivorous, and ample science proves that when we choose to eat meat, that causes problems, from decreased energy and a need for more sleep up to increased risk for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. 1

Proof of our Herbivorous Nature


Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.

Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.

Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.

Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.

Fiber. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.

Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.

Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.


It is simply amazing how well the Meat, Egg, and Dairy insustry has changed what people think regarding animals and have (somehow) made people think that eating meat is good even when we know for a fact that it is not.

Not sure how anyone can justify any of these things, will all of the information that we have:


Killing an Animal

Using Animals for Sports (horse racing, dog racing, circus animals)

Eating an Animal


FOR THE FULL REASON WHY YOU SHOULD NOT EAT MEAT, SEE THIS VIDEO (IT HAS OVER 1.7 MILLION VIEWS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

PRIMARY SOURCES:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/09/are-humans-carnivores-or-herbivores-2/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html
http://www.adaptt.org/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

[PinkFloyd]

That was a really well written article. Props on that. As an underweight American I will still never become a vegetarian or vegan...

[Nellerin]

That was a really well written article. Props on that. As an underweight American I will still never become a vegetarian or vegan...

Even though eating meat is the number one cause of Cancer? (not to mention the hundreds of other diseases)

We literally are not even supposed to put meat in our body because it does nothing good. You can gain weight by being a vegan, it is called eating more.

Does not make much sense that you are worried about being underweight when you can gain enough weight with being Vegan AND avoid dying early or having a lower quality of life due to eating meat.

[PinkFloyd]

Even though eating meat is the number one cause of Cancer? (not to mention the hundreds of other diseases)

We literally are not even supposed to put meat in our body because it does nothing good. You can gain weight by being a vegan, it is called eating more.

Does not make much sense that you are worried about being underweight when you can gain enough weight with being Vegan AND avoid dying early or having a lower quality of life due to eating meat.

This is where the whole "Live a fun life instead of a not fun life." comes into play. I would rather eat food I like and possibly knock a few years off my life instead of eating food that to me (primarily) tastes bad to me. I say primarily because Smoothies of all kinds are fricken amazing in my opinion. It's not like I don't eat my fare share of fruits and vegetables though. i really like carrots and broccoli and about 5 or 10 other vegetables. I also like every fruit in existance except for tomatos. I eat some meat some times. I don't eat it all the time like some people that hunt.

Oh, and only two of my family members have had cancer in the past. That cancer was lung cancer because both of them smoked a lot of shit that you should never put into my lungs.

I wouldn't say I'm concerned about being underweight either. I like being this way. Sorry about the confusion. I just didn't want to be called overweight, judging by my country's status on that.

[Nellerin]

This is where the whole "Live a fun life instead of a not fun life." comes into play. I would rather eat food I like and possibly knock a few years off my life instead of eating food that to me (primarily) tastes bad to me. I say primarily because Smoothies of all kinds are fricken amazing in my opinion. It's not like I don't eat my fare share of fruits and vegetables though. i really like carrots and broccoli and about 5 or 10 other vegetables. I also like every fruit in existance except for tomatos. I eat some meat some times. I don't eat it all the time like some people that hunt.

Oh, and only two of my family members have had cancer in the past. That cancer was lung cancer because both of them smoked a lot of shit that you should never put into my lungs.

I wouldn't say I'm concerned about being underweight either. I like being this way. Sorry about the confusion. I just didn't want to be called overweight, judging by my country's status on that.

Considering that there are thousands of vegan products which taste exactly the same as meat, then that also doesn't make much sense. And not only does it bring down how long you live, but you are living with less energy and overall lower health for your whole life.

Not to mention that you spend way more to eat meat.

And it is interesting that you mention smoking, well, diet (eating meat) causes more cancer than smoking. So...

[PinkFloyd]

Considering that there are thousands of vegan products which taste exactly the same as meat, then that also doesn't make much sense. And not only does it bring down how long you live, but you are living with less energy and overall lower health for your whole life.

Not to mention that you spend way more to eat meat.

I'm honestly wondering because I'm interested. What are the vegan products that are common? (Like sold at Wal-mart and Target common.) I don't want to drive a long time to some Co-Op store.

[Nellerin]

I'm honestly wondering because I'm interested. What are the vegan products that are common? (Like sold at Wal-mart and Target common.) I don't want to drive a long time to some Co-Op store.

Since I have less experience that the guy that made the video which I linked to in OP (which I urge you and everyone to watch.)

Here is his "shopping guide/list" of all of the things that are easy to find in stores and taste great: http://www.adaptt.org/shopping.html

[PinkFloyd]

Since I have less experience that the guy that made the video which I linked to in OP (which I urge you and everyone to watch.)

Here is his "shopping guide/list" of all of the things that are easy to find in stores and taste great: http://www.adaptt.org/shopping.html

That's really awesome.

[Silicate Wielder]

We're omnivores, some of us more so than others. Personally I lean towards the herbivore side of things, I like many fruits and veggies and prefer them over meat because they settle better with my stomache.

Even back in the stone-age we were eating meat before we knew how to communicate on a high level, we didn't think about how animals felt, it was just us trying to survive each day. without a mammoth or other wild animal trying to kill us.

[Zarakly]

Do you have any actual proof that meat causes cancer? I have never heard that and that seems highly doubtful in my opinion seeing as cancer is a mutation inside the cell. I would like to see where you got that information.

Also you say herbiviores have 10-12x there height is the lengs of their intestines? So you think our intestines are 50-60ft long? I'm fairly certain they are closer to 30 feet which would be closer to 3-6x the height of humans.

Doesn't matter what you say, I would rather eat meat then vegetables anyday. I don't care what your research says, meat seems to give me more energy rather then less.

[Origami]

Do you have any actual proof that meat causes cancer? I have never heard that and that seems highly doubtful in my opinion seeing as cancer is a mutation inside the cell. I would like to see where you got that information.

Also you say herbiviores have 10-12x there height is the lengs of their intestines? So you think our intestines are 50-60ft long? I'm fairly certain they are closer to 30 feet which would be closer to 3-6x the height of humans.

Doesn't matter what you say, I would rather eat meat then vegetables anyday. I don't care what your research says, meat seems to give me more energy rather then less.

I'll grab a link later, but I can confirm a partial truth in his statement.

Cured meats such as salami and hot dogs are said to attribute to cancer.

[Zarakly]

I'll grab a link later, but I can confirm a partial truth in his statement.

Cured meats such as salami and hot dogs are said to attribute to cancer.

Ah alright, I'll look it up sometime today. I just had never heard of that before and was kind of skeptical.

[Nellerin]

We're omnivores, some of us more so than others. Personally I lean towards the herbivore side of things, I like many fruits and veggies and prefer them over meat because they settle better with my stomache.

Even back in the stone-age we were eating meat before we knew how to communicate on a high level, we didn't think about how animals felt, it was just us trying to survive each day. without a mammoth or other wild animal trying to kill us.

Nope we are not omnivores, it has been proven. Did you read the thing at all? Meat has been in our diet for only thousands of years and we went 99% of our existence without it.

Humans were never supposed to eat meat, that is why our entire body can only take in non-meat products in the right way. We have nothing "carnivorous" in our body meaning we are not omnivores.

Do you have any actual proof that meat causes cancer? I have never heard that and that seems highly doubtful in my opinion seeing as cancer is a mutation inside the cell. I would like to see where you got that information.

Also you say herbiviores have 10-12x there height is the lengs of their intestines? So you think our intestines are 50-60ft long? I'm fairly certain they are closer to 30 feet which would be closer to 3-6x the height of humans.

Doesn't matter what you say, I would rather eat meat then vegetables anyday. I don't care what your research says, meat seems to give me more energy rather then less.

Meat causes cancer: http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/mar/07/cancer-risk-processed-meat-study
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/07/processed-meat-cancer-heart-disease-death-risk_n_2829092.html

But it is not just Processed Meats:

Talk from Professor Colin Campbell who helped conduct some of the largest studies regarding the link between cancer and meat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDXxo5Sussk

Milk is also even worse than actual meat due to the presence of casein protein which is considered a carcinogen (cancer causing substance) by current scientific research.

[Origami]

Ah alright, I'll look it up sometime today. I just had never heard of that before and was kind of skeptical.

Keep in mind that it is, however, considered to very insignificant in it's contribution. Remember, while meat eaters statistically have cancer more often, nations which eat less meat have higher rates of specific cancers such as stomach cancer.

The research done on this has been "debatable" at best with people making most of the results intentionally stacked to one side or the other. If it was anywhere near the need for alarm on either side, there would be a more active press for or against meat by the FDA.

Also, at the OP - What does animal sport have to do with being a herbivore? I doubt making everyone eat plants will suddenly stop racing and circus animals. It's completely unrelated.

Also noting: The China Study is known for it's biased views and stacked studies. Campbell has come under attack by his peers and critics for this in the past.

[Silicate Wielder]

05zhL1YUd8Q
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My opinion has been swayed

[Nellerin]

Keep in mind that it is, however, considered to very insignificant in it's contribution. Remember, while meat eaters statistically have cancer more often, nations which eat less meat have higher rates of specific cancers such as stomach cancer.

The research done on this has been "debatable" at best with people making most of the results intentionally stacked to one side or the other. If it was anywhere near the need for alarm on either side, there would be a more active press for or against meat by the FDA.


It is not debatable, they have looked at thousands of test subjects to show that indeed, people that eat meat have higher rates of diseases and cancers.

Why would the FDA (the same people that approve numerous disease-causing medicines) say anything about meat when it is a multi-billion dollar industry. We kill more than 10 billion land animals each year for food which accounts for 98% of all of the animals abused and killed in the US. http://farmusa.org/statistics11.html

Please explain how the human body is only built to process non-meat products then, if we are supposed to consume meat?

We cannot even chase down animals nor can we rip them apart (two of the most basic requirements for carnivores or omnivores.)

Not to mention the enzymes in our stomach and mouth are only meant for non-meat items.

05zhL1YUd8Q
G6qi3gfIJRA

My opinion has been swayed

Both of those videos are great, the first one is "funny" but it gets the point across very well. Thanks for sharing.

In terms of evolution, humans simply cannot and should not eat meat.


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

[Silicate Wielder]

Both of those videos are great, the first one is "funny" but it gets the point across very well. Thanks for sharing.

In terms of evolution, humans simply cannot and should not eat meat.

I'm going to try and see about eating veggies more. :)

[Nellerin]

I'm going to try and see about eating veggies more. :)

Yep, or only veggies. When you actually look at Vegan food, it is cheaper and there are insane amounts of choices and variety. Not to mention the foods that have been made to taste just like meat for people that really miss dairy/meat products.

[Origami]

It is not debatable, they have looked at thousands of test subjects to show that indeed, people that eat meat have higher rates of diseases and cancers.

Why would the FDA (the same people that approve numerous disease-causing medicines) say anything about meat when it is a multi-billion dollar industry. We kill more than 10 billion land animals each year for food which accounts for 98% of all of the animals abused and killed in the US. http://farmusa.org/statistics11.html

Please explain how the human body is only built to process non-meat products then, if we are supposed to consume meat?

We cannot even chase down animals nor can we rip them apart (two of the most basic requirements for carnivores or omnivores.)

Not to mention the enzymes in our stomach and mouth are only meant for non-meat items.

Slow your horses there partner!

Firstly, I didn't say "diseases." I said "cancers" specifically. There is no debate that the high cholesterol in meats can cause negative effects such as heart disease; however, the actual "evidence" suggesting it leads to cancer isn't spot on. Countries that eat less meat actually don't have a significant difference in their cancer rates. In fact, China is among the highest rates in the world for stomach cancer. I'll acknowledge the disease part, but the statistics on cancer always omit certain details to make it appear true.

And because if the FDA out rules certain drugs, we lose money. If they essentially campaigned against meat, while hurting the meat industry, it would directly benefit Vegan companies. That is kind of obvious here. The money lost in one industry won't exactly disappear. People won't stop eating.

I'm not saying we're not herbivores. I'm not arguing how are body is built. No need throwing that in opposition to me.

And you're right, we can't run down and rip our prey apart. But then again, no other herbivore can fashion spears, knives, and rifles either. We aren't like animals, otherwise we'd be significantly lower on the food chain.

[Harry Smith]

Since my last post (regarding Hunting) was closed down since it got off topic and began to stray into the health effects of eating meat, I decided to make an actual thread regarding Humans and the FACT that they are Herbivores and not Omnivores and definitely not Carnivores.

One you realize this, hunting sort of fixes itself, since there is no need for it (since we should never eat meat.)

Dr. T. Colin Campbell, professor emeritus at Cornell University and author of The China Study, explains that in fact, we only recently (historically speaking) began eating meat, and that the inclusion of meat in our diet came well after we became who we are today. He explains that "the birth of agriculture only started about 10,000 years ago at a time when it became considerably more convenient to herd animals. This is not nearly as long as the time [that] fashioned our basic biochemical functionality (at least tens of millions of years) and which functionality depends on the nutrient composition of plant-based foods." 1

Sure, most of us are "behavioral omnivores"--that is, we eat meat, so that defines us as omnivorous. But our evolution and physiology are herbivorous, and ample science proves that when we choose to eat meat, that causes problems, from decreased energy and a need for more sleep up to increased risk for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. 1

Proof of our Herbivorous Nature


Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.

Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.

Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.

Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.

Fiber. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.

Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.

Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.


It is simply amazing how well the Meat, Egg, and Dairy insustry has changed what people think regarding animals and have (somehow) made people think that eating meat is good even when we know for a fact that it is not.

Not sure how anyone can justify any of these things, will all of the information that we have:


Killing an Animal

Using Animals for Sports (horse racing, dog racing, circus animals)

Eating an Animal


FOR THE FULL REASON WHY YOU SHOULD NOT EAT MEAT, SEE THIS VIDEO (IT HAS OVER 1.7 MILLION VIEWS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

PRIMARY SOURCES:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/09/are-humans-carnivores-or-herbivores-2/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html
http://www.adaptt.org/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

I completely agree, I will now proceed to never eat meat again!

This is just pseudo-science, in regards to the comments about the enezyme. Which one are you mentioning- Amylase or Lipase? Lipase is in fact designed to break down fatty based foods so yes they are in fact designed to break down meat.

I also believe you asked for the thread to be closed before

[Nellerin]

Slow your horses there partner!

Firstly, I didn't say "diseases." I said "cancers" specifically. There is no debate that the high cholesterol in meats can cause negative effects such as heart disease; however, the actual "evidence" suggesting it leads to cancer isn't spot on. Countries that eat less meat actually don't have a significant difference in their cancer rates. In fact, China is among the highest rates in the world for stomach cancer. I'll acknowledge the disease part, but the statistics on cancer always omit certain details to make it appear true.

And because if the FDA out rules certain drugs, we lose money. If they essentially campaigned against meat, while hurting the meat industry, it would directly benefit Vegan companies. That is kind of obvious here. The money lost in one industry won't exactly disappear. People won't stop eating.

I'm not saying we're not herbivores. I'm not arguing how are body is built. No need throwing that in opposition to me.

And you're right, we can't run down and rip our prey apart. But then again, no other herbivore can fashion spears, knives, and rifles either. We aren't like animals, otherwise we'd be significantly lower on the food chain.

Stomach cancer in China = not caused by NOT eating meat. It is caused by them preserving veggies in the wrong way (fermenting is common and that leads to bacteria, leading to cancer)

So therefore there is still no anti-vegan claims that support vegan diets causing cancer.

http://www.tcolincampbell.org/courses-resources/article/stomach-cancer-in-china/category/oncology/?tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=76&cHash=1a87883aec67cddad69dea3a5bc441f3

And simply because we are now capable of killing an animal does not mean much because our bodies still cannot process it. Therefore we are still just as herbivorous as we always have been.

[Origami]

Stomach cancer in China = not caused by NOT eating meat. It is caused by them preserving veggies in the wrong way (fermenting is common and that leads to bacteria, leading to cancer)

So therefore there is still no anti-vegan claims that support vegan diets causing cancer.

http://www.tcolincampbell.org/courses-resources/article/stomach-cancer-in-china/category/oncology/?tx_ttnews%5BbackPid%5D=76&cHash=1a87883aec67cddad69dea3a5bc441f3

And simply because we are now capable of killing an animal does not mean much because our bodies still cannot process it. Therefore we are still just as herbivorous as we always have been.

Now you might get it! You see how my argument doesn't necessarily make yours bad. Like I said before, countries that eat less meat have no significant difference in cancer rates. The only meats that significantly cause cancer are the evil cured meats, but they're not really worth eating to begin with.

From what I gathered, it's like the difference in being exposed to secondhand smoke or not. The health benefits aren't significant enough for me to ever worry about. I live a healthy lifestyle that, for the most part, cancels out most of the toxins my body takes in.

Now, for someone who isn't capable of staying active and fit or just doesn't have the drive to do so, yes, I would consider a low-meat, high-veggy diet.

[Silicate Wielder]

Yep, or only veggies. When you actually look at Vegan food, it is cheaper and there are insane amounts of choices and variety. Not to mention the foods that have been made to taste just like meat for people that really miss dairy/meat products.

I can't go complete vegan at the moment my mom still nags me about needing my protein and my sister refuses to eat fruit and veggies other than apples and bananas, but I'll fit it in where I can. :)

[Nellerin]

I completely agree, I will now proceed to never eat meat again!

This is just pseudo-science, in regards to the comments about the enezyme. Which one are you mentioning- Amylase or Lipase? Lipase is in fact designed to break down fatty based foods so yes they are in fact designed to break down meat.

I also believe you asked for the thread to be closed before

I asked for it to be closed because there were too many complaints regarding me bringing up the "health factors of meat."


To your first point... it is not pseudo-science, show me any study or research that shows we should be eating meat... oh ya.. there is absolutely none.

To call it pseudo-science is absurd these studies have been conducted since the 60's and have looked at thousands of people in the modern world as well as researched how we evolved to eat. We simply are not meant to eat meat. We share no resemblance to carnivores.

Now you might get it! You see how my argument doesn't necessarily make yours bad. Like I said before, countries that eat less meat have no significant difference in cancer rates. The only meats that significantly cause cancer are the evil cured meats, but they're not really worth eating to begin with.

From what I gathered, it's like the difference in being exposed to secondhand smoke or not. The health benefits aren't significant enough for me to ever worry about. I live a healthy lifestyle that, for the most part, cancels out most of the toxins my body takes in.

Now, for someone who isn't capable of staying active and fit or just doesn't have the drive to do so, yes, I would consider a low-meat, high-veggy diet.

I think you are slightly mistaken regarding the health effects of meat, we have no way of processing it, therefore any meat that enters our body will always cause issues (not just toxins, but literally being stuck in our body.)


Vegans have less heart disease

Vegans have more dietary fiber, folic acid, potassium, magnesium, and Vitamin c/e

Dairy milk is the most common cause of osteoporosis and the calcium present in Vegan food actually does far better for bones



I can't go complete vegan at the moment my mom still nags me about needing my protein and my sister refuses to eat fruit and veggies other than apples and bananas, but I'll fit it in where I can. :)

You get the same or more protein from Soy, Hemp, etc. So that is not a big deal.


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

[Origami]

I think you are slightly mistaken regarding the health effects of meat, we have no way of processing it, therefore any meat that enters our body will always cause issues (not just toxins, but literally being stuck in our body.)


Vegans have less heart disease

Vegans have more dietary fiber, folic acid, potassium, magnesium, and Vitamin c/e

Dairy milk is the most common cause of osteoporosis and the calcium present in Vegan food actually does far better for bones


I think you're overlooking the all too obvious.

•We know about heart disease. Meat is high in cholesterol. I've admitted this. You're doing no good bringing it up again. Stop.
•No duh! They eat more items containing these things. Obviously they'd have more. That's like saying a coconut farmer would have more melons than a melon farmer. That's nothing short of common sense and isn't really arguable.
•Dairy milk? We're arguing meat, not dairy products. This is pointless to your cause.

[Harry Smith]

I asked for it to be closed because there were too many complaints regarding me bringing up the "health factors of meat."


To your first point... it is not pseudo-science, show me any study or research that shows we should be eating meat... oh ya.. there is absolutely none.

To call it pseudo-science is absurd these studies have been conducted since the 60's and have looked at thousands of people in the modern world as well as researched how we evolved to eat. We simply are not meant to eat meat. We share no resemblance to carnivores.

So you admit that we didn't close it because of off topic? It was closed and to quote at the 'OP request' not by are doing.

Fragments of a 1.5-million-year-old skull from a child recently found in Tanzania suggest early hominids weren't just occasional carnivores but regular meat eaters, researchers say.

The finding helps build the case that meat-eating helped the human lineage evolve large brains, scientists added.

"I know this will sound awful to vegetarians, but meat made us human," said researcher Manuel Domínguez-Rodrigo, an archaeologist at Complutense University in Madrid.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-11-26/national/35510270_1_vegan-diet-big-brains-brain-size

I also don't understand what your hoping to achieve, I'm not going to stop eating meat because someone on a teen forum told me it was not what humans were not meant to.

Also please Lipase? It's purpose to break down fatty acids

[Walter Powers]

So what, one scientist thinks we're herbivores?

There are some scientists that don't think global warming is impacted by man. I'm sure you probably don't think they're right, considering what you've said about Sarah Palin's stance on the issue? So why should I believe this ONE scientist?

[Hyper]

The claim that we have only eated meat for the last few thousand years is ridiculous beyond belief.

The way this Campbell guy expresses it in the quote in your OP is contradictive at best.

There is plenty of research out there that proves and shows humans have eaten meat for hundreds of thousands of years and in fact many researchers claim that eating meat made our brains evolve. Basically making us who we are today as a species

Also the thing about cancer studies... There are many things which cause cancer to attribute cancer to 1 factor would also require studies barring other factors as possibilities i.e plastics & other chemicals, other foods and god knows what else.

[Nellerin]

Also please Lipase? It's purpose to break down fatty acids

Lipase breaks down fats. Guess what, they mainly break down triglycerides, oh ya:

"It is the main constituent of vegetable oil"

So how does lipase have anything to do with meat. Lipase is in almost all living beings even the ones that we know are HERBIVORES.

The claim that we have only eated meat for the last few thousand years is ridiculous beyond belief.

The way this Campbell guy expresses it in the quote in your OP is contradictive at best.

There is plenty of research out there that proves and shows humans have eaten meat for hundreds of thousands of years and in fact many researchers claim that eating meat made our brains evolve. Basically making us who we are today as a species

Also the thing about cancer studies... There are many things which cause cancer to attribute cancer to 1 factor would also require studies barring other factors as possibilities i.e plastics & other chemicals, other foods and god knows what else.

Einstein: ”Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.” - See more at: http://freefromharm.org/animal-rights/seven-reasons-why-we-have-not-evolved-to-eat-meat/#sthash.0sjKzkOx.dpuf

And that study regarding meat making us smarter was about COOKING MEAT. OF course, if someone ate raw meat as part of their diet and then removed toxins via cooking, they would not be as dumb over time. It has nothing to do with adding meat to their diet.

Not to mention that the original study regarding meat making us evolve was from 1995 and was disproved in 2011. (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v480/n7375/full/nature10629.html)


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

[Hyper]

Einstein: ”Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian diet.” - See more at: http://freefromharm.org/animal-rights/seven-reasons-why-we-have-not-evolved-to-eat-meat/#sthash.0sjKzkOx.dpuf

And that study regarding meat making us smarter was about COOKING MEAT. OF course, if someone ate raw meat as part of their diet and then removed toxins via cooking, they would not be as dumb over time. It has nothing to do with adding meat to their diet.

Not to mention that the original study regarding meat making us evolve was from 1995 and was disproved in 2011. (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v480/n7375/full/nature10629.html)

And Einstein was obviously a scientist who studied nutrition and its affects on human beings.

COOKING MEAT? The ACT OF COOKING MEAT? OR THE ACT OF EATING IT.

What exactly does your link disprove?

[RyanCrest]

But we have canine teeth, doesn't that mean we should eat meat?

[Jasperf]

Since my last post (regarding Hunting) was closed down since it got off topic and began to stray into the health effects of eating meat, I decided to make an actual thread regarding Humans and the FACT that they are Herbivores and not Omnivores and definitely not Carnivores.

One you realize this, hunting sort of fixes itself, since there is no need for it (since we should never eat meat.)

Dr. T. Colin Campbell, professor emeritus at Cornell University and author of The China Study, explains that in fact, we only recently (historically speaking) began eating meat, and that the inclusion of meat in our diet came well after we became who we are today. He explains that "the birth of agriculture only started about 10,000 years ago at a time when it became considerably more convenient to herd animals. This is not nearly as long as the time [that] fashioned our basic biochemical functionality (at least tens of millions of years) and which functionality depends on the nutrient composition of plant-based foods." 1

Sure, most of us are "behavioral omnivores"--that is, we eat meat, so that defines us as omnivorous. But our evolution and physiology are herbivorous, and ample science proves that when we choose to eat meat, that causes problems, from decreased energy and a need for more sleep up to increased risk for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. 1

Proof of our Herbivorous Nature


Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.

Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.

Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.

Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.

Fiber. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.

Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.

Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.


It is simply amazing how well the Meat, Egg, and Dairy insustry has changed what people think regarding animals and have (somehow) made people think that eating meat is good even when we know for a fact that it is not.

Not sure how anyone can justify any of these things, will all of the information that we have:


Killing an Animal

Using Animals for Sports (horse racing, dog racing, circus animals)

Eating an Animal


FOR THE FULL REASON WHY YOU SHOULD NOT EAT MEAT, SEE THIS VIDEO (IT HAS OVER 1.7 MILLION VIEWS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

PRIMARY SOURCES:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/09/are-humans-carnivores-or-herbivores-2/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html
http://www.adaptt.org/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

Well no, we are omnivores, I don't know anyone who is a carnivore!

[Nellerin]

But we have canine teeth, doesn't that mean we should eat meat?

Our canine teeth share zero connection with actual canine teeth in meat-eaters. Instead the only benefit they provide are the ability to get through the outside of hard fruits/veggies (apples for example.)

[Harry Smith]

Lipase breaks down fats. Guess what, they mainly break down triglycerides, oh ya:

"It is the main constituent of vegetable oil"

So how does lipase have anything to do with meat. Lipase is in almost all living beings even the ones that we know are HERBIVORES.

Lipase is able to break down the fat which is in turn found in meat, so our body is designed to break down fat.

Anyway I don't understand your point.

Are you hoping that thanks to someone acting rather arrogantly on a forum that we're all going to stop eating meat? Because trust me that's not going to happen

[Nellerin]

Well no, we are omnivores, I don't know anyone who is a carnivore!

Well it is proven that we are NOT omnivores since we cannot digest meat and it harms the body.

Calcium from Milk hurts the body and is useless for it.

Meat from any animal does not make it through the digestive tract in the correct fashion because there is almost nothing breaking it down along the way.

All omnivores and carnivores are capable of actually tearing through flesh, good luck trying to do that as a human.

Simple test to prove you are not an omnivore: Go outside, find a wild dog or even a simple squirrel, chase it, tackle it, rip its flesh off and consume it using just your body.

Lipase is able to break down the fat which is in turn found in meat, so our body is designed to break down fat.

Anyway I don't understand your point.

Are you hoping that thanks to someone acting rather arrogantly on a forum that we're all going to stop eating meat? Because trust me that's not going to happen

Actually yes, someone on the first page said "My opinion has been swayed" and honestly, this info should change your mind about eating it unless you are dense.

And why do herbivores have Lipase? Oh ya!! It's because FAT is not just in meat, what kind of silly idea is that.

We evolved over time to have Lipase which is good at breaking down any plant with fat in it (triglycerides) makes sense to keep that around.

Also why is our body Alkaline, if meat-eaters requite an acidic body??


-double post merged. -Emerald Dream

[Harry Smith]

Actually yes, someone on the first page said "My opinion has been swayed" and honestly, this info should change your mind about eating it unless you are dense.

And why do herbivores have Lipase? Oh ya!! It's because FAT is not just in meat, what kind of silly idea is that.

We evolved over time to have Lipase which is good at breaking down any plant with fat in it (triglycerides) makes sense to keep that around.

Ohh I'm so dense, a dagger in my heart.

What kinda silly idea are you? I'm eating a piece of chicken right now and there's nothing you can do to stop me. But oh wait my body isn't designed to eat this piece of chicken.

it's funny you mention evolution because your argument seems to go back and forth between what we were designed for, you seem to be missing out the fact that the human race has proved that physical ability ( speed, stenght etc can be outweighted by intelligience.

10 humans with flaming sticks against a much larger mammoth, the humans will win. Rather than having to live off a couple of berries they kill the mammoth using tools and then eat all of the meat.

We weren't designed to fly yet we mastered air travel. Your idea about not eating meat because we can't catch in now in our garden is just ridiculous.

We've evolved above the need to be able to hunt

[Nellerin]

Ohh I'm so dense, a dagger in my heart.

What kinda silly idea are you? I'm eating a piece of chicken right now and there's nothing you can do to stop me. But oh wait my body isn't designed to eat this piece of chicken.

it's funny you mention evolution because your argument seems to go back and forth between what we were designed for, you seem to be missing out the fact that the human race has proved that physical ability ( speed, stenght etc can be outweighted by intelligience.

10 humans with flaming sticks against a much larger mammoth, the humans will win. Rather than having to live off a couple of berries they kill the mammoth using tools and then eat all of the meat.

We weren't designed to fly yet we mastered air travel. Your idea about not eating meat because we can't catch in now in our garden is just ridiculous.

We've evolved above the need to be able to hunt

Evolution is not possible that fast, we have only had those tools for 250,000 years and yet humans have been around for 2.2 million years. Guess what, completely anatomically modern humans were around more than 100,00 years before tools were around for people to hunt with.

Therefore they had a plant based diet from what we can tell, evolution has not affected our bodies since then to change what our body is supposed to process.

Not to mention the torture of the chicken that you are eating and the beating and cruelty that it received (but that is a whole different thread of topics.)

[Jess]

Don't we have canine teeth?

Anyways I'm never going to stop eating meat. It's way too good to me to give up. If someone wants to eat meat, why can't they? Nor is there anything wrong with giving it up.

[Nellerin]

Don't we have canine teeth?

Anyways I'm never going to stop eating meat. It's way too good to me to give up. If someone wants to eat meat, why can't they? Nor is there anything wrong with giving it up.

LOL, gotta love when people bring up Canine Teeth. And how is it "too good" when it is the opposite of what you should have and leads to 65% of all diseases in the US.

Compare the top picture of human teeth, to the bottom picture of the canine teeth in a Cat

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/10909378/2/stock-photo-10909378-human-teeth.jpg
http://www.solarnavigator.net/animal_kingdom/animal_images/cat_yawning_canine_teeth.jpg

Good luck chewing threw flesh with our teeth. Just like Gorilla's which are 99% the same as us, we are herbivores. We know for a fact that they primarily are and yet somewhere along the line, people though that Humans were not.

[Harry Smith]

Evolution is not possible that fast, we have only had those tools for 250,000 years and yet humans have been around for 2.2 million years. Guess what, completely anatomically modern humans were around more than 100,00 years before tools were around for people to hunt with.

Therefore they had a plant based diet from what we can tell, evolution has not affected our bodies since then to change what our body is supposed to process.

Not to mention the torture of the chicken that you are eating and the beating and cruelty that it received (but that is a whole different thread of topics.)

It's actually a free range chicken so yeah eat that, I still don't understand why your ranting about this? Seriously there are so many much bigger issues in the world than whether our teeth are desinged to eat meat.

Christ I have christians telling me everyday that being gay is unnatural, does that change my view? So when I have someone telling me that eating meat is apparently unnatural. You're trying to change at least what 1.5 million years history of eating meat, good luck with that. It's a lost battle.

Meat provides us with protein, I can't be asked to take a protein pill every day when a hamburger tastes so nice. Meat has also helped Human long term brain development, meaning without it we probably wouldn't be having this chat.

Also your earlier point Dairy milk is the most common cause of osteoporosis

My mum has osteoporosis, it runs in her family and the doctor told my sister to drink lots of yes diary milk to help prevent it. Straight from the doctors mouth.

Also could you BE anymore arrogant?

[Jess]

It's actually a free range chicken so yeah eat that, I still don't understand why your ranting about this? Seriously there are so many much bigger issues in the world than whether our teeth are desinged to eat meat.

Christ I have christians telling me everyday that being gay is unnatural, does that change my view? So when I have someone telling me that eating meat is apparently unnatural. You're trying to change at least what 1.5 million years history of eating meat, good luck with that. It's a lost battle.

Meat provides us with protein, I can't be asked to take a protein pill every day when a hamburger tastes so nice. Meat has also helped Human long term brain development, meaning without it we probably wouldn't be having this chat.

Also your earlier point

My mum has osteoporosis, it runs in her family and the doctor told my sister to drink lots of yes diary milk to help prevent it. Straight from the doctors mouth.

Also could you BE anymore arrogant?

This.

I also don't believe for a second that milk is bad for us. My mom pesters me about drinking milk everyday.

[Nellerin]

It's actually a free range chicken so yeah eat that, I still don't understand why your ranting about this? Seriously there are so many much bigger issues in the world than whether our teeth are desinged to eat meat.

Christ I have christians telling me everyday that being gay is unnatural, does that change my view? So when I have someone telling me that eating meat is apparently unnatural. You're trying to change at least what 1.5 million years history of eating meat, good luck with that. It's a lost battle.

Meat provides us with protein, I can't be asked to take a protein pill every day when a hamburger tastes so nice. Meat has also helped Human long term brain development, meaning without it we probably wouldn't be having this chat.

Also your earlier point

My mum has osteoporosis, it runs in her family and the doctor told my sister to drink lots of yes diary milk to help prevent it. Straight from the doctors mouth.

Also could you BE anymore arrogant?

Well your doctor has mental issues, because we DO KNOW FOR A FACT that it causes osteoporosis.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/12/13120.aspx
http://saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/12/new-study-increased-milk-intake-does-not-protect-against-osteoporosis-but-does-promote-ovarian-and-p.html

"The myth that osteoporosis is caused by calcium deficiency was created to sell dairy products and calcium supplements. There's no truth to it. American women are among the biggest consumers of calcium in the world, and they still have one of the highest levels of osteoporosis in the world. And eating even more dairy products and calcium supplements is not going to change that fact."

- Dr. John McDougall The McDougall Program for Women (2000)"

Maybe your mom should learn what actually causes these issues... might actually help her instead of causing her to lose more bone density.

Meat provides us with protein, yes. But just like milk protein is bad for us, meat protein is not the most beneficial kind to our body. Plant-based protein (Soy, Hemp, Rice) is actually FAR better than meat protein and provides the correct amount considering that you should only have 50grams of protein a day according to the World Health Organization.

This.

I also don't believe for a second that milk is bad for us. My mom pesters me about drinking milk everyday.

Then you are wrong, see my last post. Sorry. It has indeed been proven, you have simply been lied to.


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

[Harry Smith]

Well your doctor has mental issues, because we DO KNOW FOR A FACT that it causes osteoporosis.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/09/12/13120.aspx
http://saveourbones.com/osteoporosis-milk-myth/
http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/12/new-study-increased-milk-intake-does-not-protect-against-osteoporosis-but-does-promote-ovarian-and-p.html

"The myth that osteoporosis is caused by calcium deficiency was created to sell dairy products and calcium supplements. There's no truth to it. American women are among the biggest consumers of calcium in the world, and they still have one of the highest levels of osteoporosis in the world. And eating even more dairy products and calcium supplements is not going to change that fact."

- Dr. John McDougall The McDougall Program for Women (2000)"

Maybe your mom should learn what actually causes these issues... might actually help her instead of causing her to lose more bone density.

Meat provides us with protein, yes. But just like milk protein is bad for us, meat protein is not the most beneficial kind to our body. Plant-based protein (Soy, Hemp, Rice) is actually FAR better than meat protein and provides the correct amount considering that you should only have 50grams of protein a day according to the World Health Organization.

My doctor doesn't have mental issues, his mother had him tested.

Maybe your mum should learn what causes her issues

[Nellerin]

My doctor doesn't have mental issues, his mother had him tested.

Maybe your mum should learn what causes her issues

She doesn't have any issues. I just proved to you that your doctor is wrong, sorry.

Also, to your protein argument. Too much protein causes a host of issues, and guess what, the normal american breakfast provides you with over 70% of your daily protein. So if you eat meat and dairy throughout the day, you are over the recommendation leading to more issues and stress of the body.

Another reason why Vegan is better, lower protein but JUST the right amount in a day.

[Walter Powers]

Then you are wrong, see my last post. Sorry. It has indeed been proven, you have simply been lied to.

I guess you missed my earlier response:


So what, one scientist thinks we're herbivores?

There are some scientists that don't think global warming is impacted by man. I'm sure you probably don't think they're right, considering what you've said about Sarah Palin's stance on the issue? So why should I believe this ONE scientist?

[Harry Smith]

She doesn't have any issues. I just proved to you that your doctor is wrong, sorry.

Also, to your protein argument. Too much protein causes a host of issues, and guess what, the normal american breakfast provides you with over 70% of your daily protein. So if you eat meat and dairy throughout the day, you are over the recommendation leading to more issues and stress of the body.

Another reason why Vegan is better, lower protein but JUST the right amount in a day.

I'm not American, I have one egg for breakfast every day from our chickens with some mustard.

You didn't prove anything, you posted a couple of links. Sorry

[Nellerin]

I guess you missed my earlier response:


So what, one scientist thinks we're herbivores?

There are some scientists that don't think global warming is impacted by man. I'm sure you probably don't think they're right, considering what you've said about Sarah Palin's stance on the issue? So why should I believe this ONE scientist?

Nope it does not even take a scientist to figure it out. Which are we more similar too, gorillas or Tigers.

If you said Gorilla, you are moderately smart.

Okay, so gorilla's are herbivores and have the same intestinal and bone structures as us. So guess what, we are indeed herbivores.

Meat causes clogged arteries because we cannot digest it fully. If you eat the right diet, the chance of clogged arteries is almost ZERO. Since it is one of the main killers in America, then obviously people are eating the wrong (meat, dairy, eggs) stuff.

[Harry Smith]

Nope it does not even take a scientist to figure it out. Which are we more similar too, gorillas or Tigers.

If you said Gorilla, you are moderately smart.

Okay, so gorilla's are herbivores and have the same intestinal and bone structures as us. So guess what, we are indeed herbivores.

Meat causes clogged arteries because we cannot digest it fully. If you eat the right diet, the chance of clogged arteries is almost ZERO. Since it is one of the main killers in America, then obviously people are eating the wrong (meat, dairy, eggs) stuff.

Ok, people are eating the wrong stuff.

Ashes to Ashes, dust to dust. If heart disease doesn't kill you then cancer must.

I still fail to see the wider impact of your argument, are you saying it's a health risk or against evolution? It seems to be like someone was abused by meat when they were a child.

You still shouldn't take such a militant view, it won't further your cause will it?

[Nellerin]

I'm not American, I have one egg for breakfast every day from our chickens with some mustard.

You didn't prove anything, you posted a couple of links. Sorry

Well the scientists proved it, sorry.

And really, you eat Hen Periods? That's gross...

Your mom needs a different doctor since it is now common knowledge that the body cannot digest calcium from cows milk because it has a high level of sulfur which actually draws calcium out of the bones.

By the way, do you know how they get cows milk?? It is ONLY meant for a newborn calf, so unless you are still a baby then you biologically do not benefit from milk at all.

[saea97]

What's your deal with this thread, anyway? Do you care so much about the health of random VT members that you're trying to talk us out of a gigantic part of the human diet, or do you care so much about animals that you think we're scum for eating them?

[Nellerin]

Ok, people are eating the wrong stuff.

Ashes to Ashes, dust to dust. If heart disease doesn't kill you then cancer must.

I still fail to see the wider impact of your argument, are you saying it's a health risk or against evolution? It seems to be like someone was abused by meat when they were a child.

You still shouldn't take such a militant view, it won't further your cause will it?

Both lol. We are going against evolution because our bodies are not meant to process meat, EVEN when people started to eat meat, it does not mean it was good. Unless people 1.5 million years ago had some amazing medical technology and dietitians around.

Then because it is against evolution, it is a major health risk.

What's your deal with this thread, anyway? Do you care so much about the health of random VT members that you're trying to talk us out of a gigantic part of the human diet, or do you care so much about animals that you think we're scum for eating them?

Nope, it is because there are 10 billion animals killed each year just in the USA for food after they are tortured. So once people realize what is best for their health, they can stop helping the industry which slaughters billions of innocent animals.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Harry Smith]

Well the scientists proved it, sorry.

And really, you eat Hen Periods? That's gross...

Your mom needs a different doctor since it is now common knowledge that the body cannot digest calcium from cows milk because it has a high level of sulfur which actually draws calcium out of the bones.

By the way, do you know how they get cows milk?? It is ONLY meant for a newborn calf, so unless you are still a baby then you biologically do not benefit from milk at all.

Nope, there is absolutely no male involved. The Egg is not a hen, it's like a shop brought egg

[Nellerin]

Nope, there is absolutely no male involved. The Egg is not a hen, it's like a shop brought egg

What does a male have to do with anything? An egg is a HEN'S PERIOD just like a human female period....

They do not get fertilized so every so often the hen discharges and then you eat it.

And ya cows are raped to produce milk.

[Harry Smith]

What does a male have to do with anything? An egg is a HEN'S PERIOD just like a human female period....

They do not get fertilized so every so often the hen discharges and then you eat it.

And ya cows are raped to produce milk.

Oh wow, yes I'm eating hen period. It does taste very nice in a sandwhich. Period.

Cows are raped loooooolll you don't realize how funny you are. But I forgot that your more qualified than my doctor.

Next time I break my arm I have a choice between

A 16 year old who has insulted my intelligence on a teen forum or a qualified doctor who did med school followed by training, such a hard choice

[Nellerin]

Oh wow, yes I'm eating hen period. It does taste very nice in a sandwhich. Period.

Cows are raped loooooolll you don't realize how funny you are. But I forgot that your more qualified than my doctor.

Next time I break my arm I have a choice between

A 16 year old who has insulted my intelligence on a teen forum or a qualified doctor who did med school followed by training, such a hard choice

Well you go to a dumb doctor when he doesn't know where good calcium comes from and is therefore actually hurting your mother.

And what is funny about them being raped? They have the same feeling as you and I do, so not only are they artificially inseminated but once the calf comes out, it is AUTOMATICALLY taken away leaving the mother cow to cry for days on end (no lie they literally do cry forever because their kid is taken away, go to any milk production area... oh ya you probably dont care where your food comes from.)

[saea97]

Nope, it is because there are 10 billion animals killed each year just in the USA for food after they are tortured. So once people realize what is best for their health, they can stop helping the industry which slaughters billions of innocent animals.




I actually almost feel bad for you. There may be a salient point nestled amongst all your passive aggressive comments but essentially you're preaching to people (myself included) who just don't care because they like meat.

[Nellerin]

I actually almost feel bad for you. There may be a salient point nestled amongst all your passive aggressive comments but essentially you're preaching to people who just don't care because they like meat.

They like something that is actually killing them? Seems sort of messed up unless they have a very low IQ. In that case (if they do not care) then they should not be treated as humans because the main difference between humans and animals is that we are capable of providing compassion for all living beings, and yet you don't? Interesting....

[Hyper]

You don't seem to understand that correlation does not equal causation.

You only posted 1 link to an actualy study and the point of posting that study you did not illustrate...

EDIT:

Hens period? Do you really know anything about biology in general?... Or are you ''yo mommas (angry arguing) period''

As for COWS BEING RAPED and CRYING.

First of all posting some PETA style horror videos does not mean every farm is like that.

I've actually worked on a farm, a dairy farm!!! Many summers when I was younger... And...

Cows do not cry due to their offspring being taken away/Some farms do not remove offspring for a certain period of time, sometimes up until the calf is weening

Cows being raped is a bit hilarious, have you ever seen/performed/or assisted in this procedure aka artificial insemination? Well I have and I assure you 95% of our bovine victims were very compliant and probably enjoying their anal and vaginal massage (creepy I know)

I do believe that animals should be treated better and so on BUT that has NOTHING FACTUAL to do with NUTRITION

[Taryn98]

I like meat, it tastes good, so I'll eat meat.

[Origami]

They like something that is actually killing them? Seems sort of messed up unless they have a very low IQ. In that case (if they do not care) then they should not be treated as humans because the main difference between humans and animals is that we are capable of providing compassion for all living beings, and yet you don't? Interesting....

"Cows cry." "Only humans can show compassion." You derped.

I enjoy alcohol, does that mean I have a low IQ for slowly killing myself? You're gonna die anyway, shit. Might as well be able to pick your favorite poison.

[Harry Smith]

Well you go to a dumb doctor when he doesn't know where good calcium comes from and is therefore actually hurting your mother.

Arrogant kid on forum or the Doctor who shall I trust? Damn Doctor hurting my mama, at least he isn't raping her like a cow.

Your out of ideas mate, please your making everyone laugh.

Also no-one likes double posting

[CharlieHorse]

I like bayconz!!! :D
But yeah I should stop eating meats. I am a carnivorous cow. :/

[Nellerin]

Arrogant kid on forum or the Doctor who shall I trust? Damn Doctor hurting my mama, at least he isn't raping her like a cow.

Your out of ideas mate, please your making everyone laugh

Are you that dumb that you bring up raping her like a cow? What does that have to do with anything.

And no I am not out of ideas, I just seem to be slightly more "humane" than you are. Which I do not care about being "above" other people but since being humane is a human characteristic and you do not have it, I guess I win this one.

[Harry Smith]

Are you that dumb that you bring up raping her like a cow? What does that have to do with anything.

And no I am not out of ideas, I just seem to be slightly more "humane" than you are. Which I do not care about being "above" other people but since being humane is a human characteristic and you do not have it, I guess I win this one.

I have the high ground Anakin...

I'm not dumb I can talk

[saea97]

They like something that is actually killing them?

Yup.

unless they have a very low IQ.

If only this had any basis! Wah wah wah.

In that case (if they do not care) then they should not be treated as humans because the main difference between humans and animals is that we are capable of providing compassion for all living beings, and yet you don't? Interesting....

Hate to break it to you champ, but humans are defined by the homo genus. Your definition is just baseless spiritual hokum.

There we have it, folks. Despite all your babble about how you're concerned about the impact of eating meat on the human body, it's really all a facade for a veggie vendetta, isn't it?

This thread is hilarious.

[Nellerin]

I have the high ground Anakin...

I'm not dumb I can talk

How do you have the high ground when you are not human, you are actually quite below...and one of the definitions of dumb is:

"Conspicuously unintelligent; stupid"

So do not lecture me on word choice.

Yup.



If only this had any basis! Wah wah wah.



There we have it, folks. Despite all your babble about how you're concerned about the impact of eating meat on the human body, it's really all a facade for a veggie vendetta, isn't it?

This thread is hilarious.

The thread is hilarious because you have issues. Of course it has basis, if you do something that hurts you, you are therefore very dumb.


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

[Hyper]

Winning a debate that (I think?) started out as a NUTRITIONAL debate by self proclaimed humanism.

This subforums really gone to shite

[Harry Smith]

How do you have the high ground when you are not human, you are actually quite below...and one of the definitions of dumb is:

"Conspicuously unintelligent; stupid"

So do not lecture me on word choice.

It's a quote from star wars, you know episode 3 when obi-wan and anakin duel. It was joke mate.

I am human actually if you don't mind, that's just plain rude. You do I can infract you for bashing since you just quote called me stupid

[Nellerin]

It's a quote from star wars, you know episode 3 when obi-wan and anakin duel. It was joke mate.

I am human actually if you don't mind, that's just plain rude. You do I can infract you for bashing since you just quote called me stupid

You cannot physically be humane if you promote and support things that are not humane.

Humane = Compassion, and you do not have compassion for something that you allow to be tortured.

[Origami]

How do you have the high ground when you are not human, you are actually quite below...and one of the definitions of dumb is:

"Conspicuously unintelligent; stupid"

So do not lecture me on word choice.



The thread is hilarious because you have issues. Of course it has basis, if you do something that hurts you, you are therefore very dumb.


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

You called someone less than human? That's a shame considering he is in fact a human. Just because we can be compassionate doesn't mean we have to. It's the damned beauty of free will.

And you said Sae has issues? Why? Because they find your Veggie Crusade to be a hopeless joke? Hate to burst your bubble, but this thread proves no one cares.

[Harry Smith]

You cannot physically be humane if you promote and support things that are not humane.

Humane = Compassion, and you do not have compassion for something that you allow to be tortured.

I'm like the Nazis of the meat world aren't I.

I don't even know what this has turned into at all, it's just you ranting about everything. Your literally on your own screaming at everyone for 101 different reasons

[saea97]

The thread is hilarious because you have issues. Of course it has basis, if you do something that hurts you, you are therefore very dumb.



Goodness me, all this bleating about intelligence and yet you go and completely misdefine the difference between humans and animals.

How about you just let us all stupidly kill ourselves by eating burgers? It looks to me like we're all fine with that eventuality. Once all of us filthy meat-eaters are dead, you and the veggie crew can have some salad and laugh about it. It'll be great.

[PinkFloyd]

Wow, this thread has gone to shit.... :lol:
I no longer take anyone seriously.

[Sugaree]

What is it with sfsethfitz and trying to convert everyone to HIS point of view? By his logic, I'm not designed to bend to his world view of me apparently not being "designed" to eat a piece of steak.

Seriously though, what's the problem with you? Just by observing this thread, I can tell you didn't come well prepared and are now resorting to worthless tactics to try and win an online debate. You haven't proven your point, and when asked, all you do is argue more. Either prove the point you just made, or don't make the thread.

[kyler]

I like vegetables and stuff like bread and cheese just fine. I think you become a product of you environment to point. If you were fed all things non-meat you wouldn't notice but if meat is what you're used to like most of us it brings on a radical change.

I consider myself a pretty healthy guy but I really lose track and patience for looking up all the "this causes cancer and this causes liver disease" stuff. It seems that most things that have artificial colors or flavors etc have been proven to cause disease so you'd have to live a pretty careful life to steer clear of all things bad for your body.

If my mom was an awesome cook and wanted to make vegetarian things every day and it was filing I wouldn't care too much but it would have been tough when I was younger. I would definitely have cravings for hamburgers before long.

[Professional Russian]

What is it with sfsethfitz and trying to convert everyone to HIS point of view? By his logic, I'm not designed to bend to his world view of me apparently not being "designed" to eat a piece of steak.

Seriously though, what's the problem with you? Just by observing this thread, I can tell you didn't come well prepared and are now resorting to worthless tactics to try and win an online debate. You haven't proven your point, and when asked, all you do is argue more. Either prove the point you just made, or don't make the thread.

Dude he's smarter than us all.and we're stupid if we don't agree with him.

[Sugaree]

Dude he's smarter than us all.and we're stupid if we don't agree with him.

Oh yeah, the whole "I'm right, you're wrong" tactic. Works wonders.

[Professional Russian]

Oh yeah, the whole "I'm right, you're wrong" tactic. Works wonders.

He's always right that's all I'm gonna say

[Magical]

Since my last post (regarding Hunting) was closed down since it got off topic and began to stray into the health effects of eating meat, I decided to make an actual thread regarding Humans and the FACT that they are Herbivores and not Omnivores and definitely not Carnivores.

One you realize this, hunting sort of fixes itself, since there is no need for it (since we should never eat meat.)

Dr. T. Colin Campbell, professor emeritus at Cornell University and author of The China Study, explains that in fact, we only recently (historically speaking) began eating meat, and that the inclusion of meat in our diet came well after we became who we are today. He explains that "the birth of agriculture only started about 10,000 years ago at a time when it became considerably more convenient to herd animals. This is not nearly as long as the time [that] fashioned our basic biochemical functionality (at least tens of millions of years) and which functionality depends on the nutrient composition of plant-based foods." 1

Sure, most of us are "behavioral omnivores"--that is, we eat meat, so that defines us as omnivorous. But our evolution and physiology are herbivorous, and ample science proves that when we choose to eat meat, that causes problems, from decreased energy and a need for more sleep up to increased risk for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. 1

Proof of our Herbivorous Nature


Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.

Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.

Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.

Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.

Fiber. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.

Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.

Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.


It is simply amazing how well the Meat, Egg, and Dairy insustry has changed what people think regarding animals and have (somehow) made people think that eating meat is good even when we know for a fact that it is not.

Not sure how anyone can justify any of these things, will all of the information that we have:


Killing an Animal

Using Animals for Sports (horse racing, dog racing, circus animals)

Eating an Animal


FOR THE FULL REASON WHY YOU SHOULD NOT EAT MEAT, SEE THIS VIDEO (IT HAS OVER 1.7 MILLION VIEWS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

PRIMARY SOURCES:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/09/are-humans-carnivores-or-herbivores-2/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html
http://www.adaptt.org/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

OK, HERE WE GO!

The sad thing is that you're wrong. No one has pointed this out, at least in my brief review of this thread.

Taken from the Wikipedia article on The China Study (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)):

‘The authors conclude that people who eat a plant-based/vegan diet—avoiding animal products such as beef, pork, poultry, fish, eggs, cheese, and milk, and reducing their intake of processed foods and refined carbohydrates—will escape, reduce or reverse the development of chronic diseases. They also recommend adequate amounts of sunshine to maintain sufficient levels of vitamin D, and supplements of vitamin B12 in case of complete avoidance of animal products. They criticize low-carb diets, such as the Atkins diet, which include restrictions on the percentage of calories derived from complex carbohydrates.’

You see, there is a problem: 'They also recommend...supplements of vitamin B12 in case of complete avoidance of animal products.' Do you see the problem?


Taken from here (http://www.bupa.com.au/health-and-wellness/health-information/az-health-information/vitamin-b12-deficiency-anaemia#Symptoms):

‘The symptoms of vitamin B12-deficiency anaemia include:
feeling very tired
breathlessness even after little exercise
heart palpitations
headaches
a reduced appetite
a sore mouth and tongue.

If you have vitamin B12-deficiency anaemia, you may also look pale or jaundiced (have a yellowy tinge to your skin and the whites of your eyes).

As well as the symptoms of anaemia, vitamin B12-deficiency may cause symptoms related to your nerves. This is called vitamin B12 neuropathy. It may affect your movement and sensation, especially in your legs, cause numbness or pins and needles and decrease your sensitivity to touch, vibration or pain. It can also cause confusion, depression, poor concentration and forgetfulness.
These symptoms aren't always due to vitamin B12-deficiency anaemia, but if you have them see your GP.’

So without eating meat products, and without MODERN vitamin B12 supplements, we would be extremely unhealthy. So...how exactly does this support your vegetarian claim?

Just by the way, some links you might like:

I think Myth 10 is the one you'd like. (http://www.theecologist.info/page14.html)

Here. (http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm)

And this you'll love. (http://thisreviewoflife.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/shattering-vegetarian-myth-meat.html)

And your video is... It disabled comments (NO FREE SPEECH WARNING, I THINK PEOPLE CRITICISED THE VIDEO TOO HEAVILY, EH?) and has a huge number of dislikes. For a good YouTube video as it claims to be, it has a large proportion of dislikes.

[Jasperf]

Simple test to prove you are not an omnivore: Go outside, find a wild dog or even a simple squirrel, chase it, tackle it, rip its flesh off and consume it using just your body.


I never said that we are meant to be omnivores, I just corrected you. You said Carnivore, when I don't know you, but I've never met a human who only eats meat...

P.s no squirrels here.

[Nellerin]

Dude he's smarter than us all.and we're stupid if we don't agree with him.

Nope, there is a difference between an opinion and something being fact. It is a fact that meat is not healthy, therefore you cannot think anything else without being stupid (just how the world works.) Just like someone would be stupid if they said the fact of evolution was not real.

He's always right that's all I'm gonna say

In this situation, yep.

OK, HERE WE GO!

The sad thing is that you're wrong. No one has pointed this out, at least in my brief review of this thread.

Taken from the Wikipedia article on The China Study (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)):

‘The authors conclude that people who eat a plant-based/vegan diet—avoiding animal products such as beef, pork, poultry, fish, eggs, cheese, and milk, and reducing their intake of processed foods and refined carbohydrates—will escape, reduce or reverse the development of chronic diseases. They also recommend adequate amounts of sunshine to maintain sufficient levels of vitamin D, and supplements of vitamin B12 in case of complete avoidance of animal products. They criticize low-carb diets, such as the Atkins diet, which include restrictions on the percentage of calories derived from complex carbohydrates.’

You see, there is a problem: 'They also recommend...supplements of vitamin B12 in case of complete avoidance of animal products.' Do you see the problem?


Taken from here (http://www.bupa.com.au/health-and-wellness/health-information/az-health-information/vitamin-b12-deficiency-anaemia#Symptoms):

‘The symptoms of vitamin B12-deficiency anaemia include:
feeling very tired
breathlessness even after little exercise
heart palpitations
headaches
a reduced appetite
a sore mouth and tongue.

If you have vitamin B12-deficiency anaemia, you may also look pale or jaundiced (have a yellowy tinge to your skin and the whites of your eyes).

As well as the symptoms of anaemia, vitamin B12-deficiency may cause symptoms related to your nerves. This is called vitamin B12 neuropathy. It may affect your movement and sensation, especially in your legs, cause numbness or pins and needles and decrease your sensitivity to touch, vibration or pain. It can also cause confusion, depression, poor concentration and forgetfulness.
These symptoms aren't always due to vitamin B12-deficiency anaemia, but if you have them see your GP.’

So without eating meat products, and without MODERN vitamin B12 supplements, we would be extremely unhealthy. So...how exactly does this support your vegetarian claim?

Just by the way, some links you might like:

I think Myth 10 is the one you'd like. (http://www.theecologist.info/page14.html)

Here. (http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm)

And this you'll love. (http://thisreviewoflife.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/shattering-vegetarian-myth-meat.html)

And your video is... It disabled comments (NO FREE SPEECH WARNING, I THINK PEOPLE CRITICISED THE VIDEO TOO HEAVILY, EH?) and has a huge number of dislikes. For a good YouTube video as it claims to be, it has a large proportion of dislikes.

Comments are enabled on all other versions of that video AND in the comments Q&A portion. Of course it has dislikes, MOST people eat meat and would hate the things he is saying.

And you have no understanding of B12 deficiency. As long as you eat Soy and fortified foods that have B12, you are fine. That is why most of the Vegans do not suffer from any issues due to lack of vitamins, and many of them do not need any supplements.

One of your links is from a .blogspot personal blog, since when is that worth looking at?

And the link you gave about myth 10 uses no worthwhile facts to back up their claim. The support for their claim is that we do not have multiple stomachs or chew their own cud, well Elephants and Gorillas (two largest herbivores) do not have multiple stomachs AND Gorilla's do not chew their cud as a regular part of their diet.

I never said that we are meant to be omnivores, I just corrected you. You said Carnivore, when I don't know you, but I've never met a human who only eats meat...

P.s no squirrels here.

What does carnivore have to do with anything? Not sure where you got that from my post about chasing an animal down.

[Jasperf]

What does carnivore have to do with anything? Not sure where you got that from my post about chasing an animal down.

Totally read your first paragraph wrong, whoops

[Nellerin]

Totally read your first paragraph wrong, whoops

Haha ok.

[Sugaree]

Comments are enabled on all other versions of that video AND in the comments Q&A portion. Of course it has dislikes, MOST people eat meat and would hate the things he is saying.

Oh yes, you vegans are so oppressed.

[Nellerin]

Oh yes, you vegans are so oppressed.

Did I say that... nope

[Sugaree]

Did I say that... nope

But you sure as hell act like it, you god damned hippie.

[Nellerin]

But you sure as hell act like it, you god damned hippie.

How is that even remotely hippie-like. Caring about health is bad?

"Hippie - A person of unconventional appearance, typically having long hair and wearing beads"

I have short hair, I wear regular clothes, and have never worn beads. You honestly do not even know what words mean...so sad.

[Origami]

How is that even remotely hippie-like. Caring about health is bad?

"Hippie - A person of unconventional appearance, typically having long hair and wearing beads"

I have short hair, I wear regular clothes, and have never worn beads. You honestly do not even know what words mean...so sad.

If you weren't an arrogant lil' kid who thinks he has some God (or whatever) given right to preach like he's certified in everything under the sun then you'd realize words go beyond their definitions.

You'd realize words suit generalizations. And the generalization is that someone who doesn't eat meat is a "hippy." You're also anti-gun, another "hippy" generalization.

[Sugaree]

How is that even remotely hippie-like. Caring about health is bad?

"Hippie - A person of unconventional appearance, typically having long hair and wearing beads"

I have short hair, I wear regular clothes, and have never worn beads. You honestly do not even know what words mean...so sad.

The dictionary doesn't help you in a debate, you clueless twat. Now either put up or shut up. This shit is getting old.

[Nellerin]

If you weren't an arrogant lil' kid who thinks he has some God (or whatever) given write to preach like he's certified in everything under the sun then you'd realize words go beyond their definitions.

You'd realize words suit generalizations. And the generalization is that someone who doesn't eat meat is a "hippy." You're also anti-gun, another "hippy" generalization.

Then fine I am a hippy. What is wrong with that? Last time I checked the hippies in the 60's did the following:


Promote Peace

Promote Love

Expand their Consciousness


All of those things are good, and something you guys should do more of.

The dictionary doesn't help you in a debate, you clueless twat. Now either put up or shut up. This shit is getting old.

If a dictionary does not help, then using the incorrect word surely does not.

Twat means Female Genitalia. And the only people currently using it as an insult simply are not of the intelligentsia or of any other mental high-class.

[StoppingTime]

Can we try to stay halfway on topic here? You all know what this debate is supposed to be about. (hint: It isn't hippies)

[Magical]

Comments are enabled on all other versions of that video AND in the comments Q&A portion. Of course it has dislikes, MOST people eat meat and would hate the things he is saying.

And you have no understanding of B12 deficiency. As long as you eat Soy and fortified foods that have B12, you are fine. That is why most of the Vegans do not suffer from any issues due to lack of vitamins, and many of them do not need any supplements.

One of your links is from a .blogspot personal blog, since when is that worth looking at?

And the link you gave about myth 10 uses no worthwhile facts to back up their claim. The support for their claim is that we do not have multiple stomachs or chew their own cud, well Elephants and Gorillas (two largest herbivores) do not have multiple stomachs AND Gorilla's do not chew their cud as a regular part of their diet.

OK, just because you infuriate me:

LOOK AT MYTH 2. (http://www.theecologist.info/page14.html)

Alright? So how is this fortified food made? What did the B12 come from?

You can't dismiss analysis. You can't dismiss all that work - and in addition, I quotemine from the article so that you read it: 'In the long term, the consumption of, in particular, red and processed meats is linked to increased risk of cardiovascular disease, certain cancers, and diabetes.'.

Go on, read it.

[Origami]

Then fine I am a hippy. What is wrong with that? Last time I checked the hippies in the 60's did the following:


Promote Peace

Promote Love

Expand their Consciousness


All of those things are good, and something you guys should do more of.

I'm not pro-war. I'm very loving and compassionate towards those around me. And I have a very deep conscious. But eating a dead animal that someone else killed bears no weight on my soul, kid.

Here you go acting like you know everyone again. Sheesh.

EDIT----

Woops. Steven says get on topic. So shall we?

[saea97]

Caring about health is bad?



Don't be all high and mighty and pretend you give the slightest damn about our health. You're on some crusade to make everyone stop eating meat because you judge the treatment of animals to be unfair, you've already stated that. That may well be a noble cause, although your attitude robs you of any respect you may garner from people for it. And you are veeery welcome to take your chosen bits of scientific support and go and not eat meat. You are NOT welcome to dictate (and in such an unpleasant manner) that we must all not eat meat.

[Jasperf]

Haha ok.

Though I could debate your previous thread on you being against hunting, as here it's a necessity

[Nellerin]

OK, just because you infuriate me:

LOOK AT MYTH 2. (http://www.theecologist.info/page14.html)

Alright? So how is this fortified food made? What did the B12 come from?

You can't dismiss analysis. You can't dismiss all that work - and in addition, I quotemine from the article so that you read it: 'In the long term, the consumption of, in particular, red and processed meats is linked to increased risk of cardiovascular disease, certain cancers, and diabetes.'.

Go on, read it.

You sure do not understand what B12 is. B12 is only found in microbes that are generally in the soil and water. Well, polution and stripping the soil with overfarming has led to both animals AND plants having much less B12. Even meat-eaters are now supposed to take B12 supplements and so are vegans because plants used to have TWICE the amount of B12 in them especially with plants like Spinach.

"Vitamin B-12 is synthesized by single-celled microbes (bacteria) that live in the soils of the earth. And long ago when the earth and soils were healthy, before we put all sorts of chemicals on them, the surface of the earth was covered with vitamin B-12. There used to be lots of vitamin B-12 in our lives. Even if you were a pure vegetarian 300 years ago, you could open up the back door of your cottage and outside would be a beautiful organic garden. Every carrot you pulled out of the ground would have little particles of vitamin B-12 sticking to it. When it came time to get your water, you'd take a bucket of water out of the stream, and there too you would find vitamin B-12. There would be B-12 under your finger nails from working in the garden. There would be plenty of B-12 in your life, and since you needed so little of it, concerns about deficiency would not be an issue.

"We've become very isolated from the earth and we've lost our natural sources of B-12. Cows have B-12 in their muscles because they're eating grass all day and their pulling up clumps of dirt that have B-12 producing organisms clinging to the root of the grass. They eat the B-12 producing organisms who produce the B-12, which gets absorbed into their bloodstream, goes out into the muscles, and is deposited into their muscles and livers. But that is bacterial B-12 in the cow's muscle. The cow did not make it, nor did the pig or chicken. "

http://www.vegsource.com/klaper/optimum.htm

I'm not pro-war. I'm very loving and compassionate towards those around me. And I have a very deep conscious. But eating a dead animal that someone else killed bears no weight on my soul, kid.

Here you go acting like you know everyone again. Sheesh.

EDIT----

Woops. Steven says get on topic. So shall we?

There is a difference between eating something because you need to and letting something die (torture) without any actually justification. Some people (like you) are just stuck in the past.

Don't be all high and mighty and pretend you give the slightest damn about our health. You're on some crusade to make everyone stop eating meat because you judge the treatment of animals to be unfair, you've already stated that. That may well be a noble cause, although your attitude robs you of any respect you may garner from people for it. And you are veeery welcome to take your chosen bits of scientific support and go and not eat meat. You are NOT welcome to dictate (and in such an unpleasant manner) that we must all not eat meat.

Simple, do not look at what I post then.

Though I could debate your previous thread on you being against hunting, as here it's a necessity

Okay?


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

[TheMatrix]

You guys are making me so tired with all of this back-and-forth bickering.
Tiredness makes my infract-trigger finger twitch more than usual -- you have been warned.

Are you that dumb that you bring up raping her like a cow? What does that have to do with anything.
Oh puhleeze, you're not even trying.
1/10

If you're after internetz swag, try jumping to a plausible conclusion based on the post, not just taking a sentence fragment and making an obviously false claim on that.

How is that even remotely hippie-like. Caring about health is bad?

"Hippie - A person of unconventional appearance, typically having long hair and wearing beads"

I have short hair, I wear regular clothes, and have never worn beads. You honestly do not even know what words mean...so sad.
0/10


To effectively troll, you must be more subtle. And try not to get the thread locked by straying off-topic ;)

[Nellerin]

You guys are making me so tired with all of this back-and-forth bickering.
Tiredness makes my infract-trigger finger twitch more than usual -- you have been warned.


Oh puhleeze, you're not even trying.
1/10

If you're after internetz swag, try jumping to a plausible conclusion based on the post, not just taking a sentence fragment and making an obviously false claim on that.


0/10


To effectively troll, you must be more subtle. And try not to get the thread locked by straying off-topic ;)

I am not straying off topic, they did, not me. As to your other stuff, stop trying to talk like you are somehow cool and using incorrect wording and grammar with the intention of looking a certain way. You are so foolish and "OFF TOPIC" as you mods always like to jump at stuff about.

[Origami]

There is a difference between eating something because you need to and letting something die (torture) without any actually justification. Some people (like you) are just stuck in the past.

Am I stuck in the past? Aren't you the one who argued that we originally were herbivores? Maybe you should modernize your eating habits.

And I don't "let it die." I don't torture it. I walk into my store and find dead cow. So I eat it. I eat what is available to me that I enjoy. I do not slaughter and torture cows. I do not ask for them to have this done to them. I just eat the shit in the grocery store.

[StoppingTime]

You sure do not understand what B12 is. B12 is only found in microbes that are generally in the soil and water. Well, polution and stripping the soil with overfarming has led to both animals AND plants having much less B12. Even meat-eaters are now supposed to take B12 supplements and so are vegans because plants used to have TWICE the amount of B12 in them especially with plants like Spinach.

copy pasta wall


I like the part where you copy pasta'd all that, it really helped your point.
(http://www.veganforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2189.html)



There is a difference between eating something because you need to and letting something die (torture) without any actually justification. Some people (like you) are just stuck in the past.

Killing something humanely ≠ torture. End of. I'm not entirely sure how you could even compare the to.


I'm still not sure why you're even trying. Here's the thing: Humans, even in their early stages of existence, hunted. They hunted animals as well as plants - it was not one or the other (at least not for too long). So clearly there's an evolutional reason, hm? You can't deny facts by trying to shove some opinions of hippy "save the animals" 'professor' to prove your point. Just quoting random sources is meaningless.

[Nellerin]

Am I stuck in the past? Aren't you the one who argued that we originally were herbivores? Maybe you should modernize your eating habits.

And I don't "let it die." I don't torture it. I walk into my store and find dead cow. So I eat it. I eat what is available to me that I enjoy. I do not slaughter and torture cows. I do not ask for them to have this done to them. I just eat the shit in the grocery store.

Stuck in the past refers to habits. Eating meat is a habit and not a natural function, that would be like telling me to stop breathing because its "in the past."

People ate meat unhealthily out of necessity when they were hunters and gatherers which created bad habits. We no longer need those habits and are finally in a situation that permits us to actually eat in the way that we were intended to be eating which is plant-based and not based in meat.

Once again, we have no way of attaining meat with our bodies, however we are perfectly built for eating and digesting fruits, nuts, veggies, etc.

[TheMatrix]

I am not straying off topic, they did, not me.
Teacher, he started it!
Sound familiar?

As to your other stuff, stop trying to talk like you are somehow cool and using incorrect wording and grammar with the intention of looking a certain way. You are so foolish and "OFF TOPIC" as you mods always like to jump at stuff about.
BWAHAHAHAHAHA that's priceless! :lol3:
You have the honour of appearing in my signature, right underneath our good friend already there. Not something I do very often, as you can see by the year.

Really, though, please just go on with your real debate. :)

[StoppingTime]

Can you please, please, provide a widely accepted source that claims that humans are really herbivores? Otherwise this is a hopelessly lost debate.

(and by widely accepted, I don't mean the ramblings of some "professor")

[Nellerin]

I like the part where you copy pasta'd all that, it really helped your point.
(http://www.veganforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2189.html)




Killing something humanely ≠ torture. End of. I'm not entirely sure how you could even compare the to.


I'm still not sure why you're even trying. Here's the thing: Humans, even in their early stages of existence, hunted. They hunted animals as well as plants - it was not one or the other (at least not for too long). So clearly there's an evolutional reason, hm? You can't deny facts by trying to shove some opinions of hippy "save the animals" 'professor' to prove your point. Just quoting random sources is meaningless.

Actually you are wrong. We went over a million years without hunting, that is quite a long time. And our bodies have no physical way of attaining meat.

How is anything being killed humanely? Tell me where that is happening? Nowhere, and even if it was, it would not matter.

There is ZERO benefit to eating meat and that has been proven. Eating meat was a bad habit created by the need for food in times of scarcity and it became a way for people to receive very fast and large amounts of calories even though they did not realize how it was affecting their health.

Heart disease only appears (more than 95% of the time) in people that have been eating meat. Guess what...

This NEVER happens in animals that are meant to eat meat, when is the last time you heard of a wild tiger or lion getting heart disease from eating meat. Does not happen because they are meant to eat it, not the same story for us.

[Origami]

Stuck in the past refers to habits. Eating meat is a habit and not a natural function, that would be like telling me to stop breathing because its "in the past."

People ate meat unhealthily out of necessity when they were hunters and gatherers which created bad habits. We no longer need those habits and are finally in a situation that permits us to actually eat in the way that we were intended to be eating which is plant-based and not based in meat.

Once again, we have no way of attaining meat with our bodies, however we are perfectly built for eating and digesting fruits, nuts, veggies, etc.

You keep saying we have no way of obtaining meat. Let me just tell you to stop. I'm beyond sure I could walk outside, capture an animal, kill it, tear it apart, and consume it like the primal savage I am. As is true in nature, there are more than one way to catch your prey.

Granted, it would be a bitch of a task, it's still possible. So quit with that craptastic excuse of an argument.

[CharlieHorse]

Why can't we just serve both regular and veggie burgers and make everyone happy?

[Origami]

Why can't we just serve both regular and veggie burgers and make everyone happy?

Because >Cow rape.

[Nellerin]

Can you please, please, provide a widely accepted source that claims that humans are really herbivores? Otherwise this is a hopelessly lost debate.

(and by widely accepted, I don't mean the ramblings of some "professor")

Largest (sourced [ with tons of sources ] ) document I have seen regarding the proof that Humans are Herbivores... http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/natural.html

It is from a regular website and regular person however all of the information is from :

Registered Medical Doctor John McDougall
Registered Medical Doctor Milton Mills
Researchers Grand & Leckie (http://veg.ca/1996/11/21/were-early-humans-vegetarian/)
University of California Researchers quoted saying:
"Even when you look at modern human hunter-gatherers, meat is a relatively small fraction of their diet. To think that, two to four million years ago, a small-brained, awkwardly bipedal animal could efficiently acquire meat, even by scavenging, just doesn't make a whole lot of sense."

Registered Medical Doctor Dean Ornish was able to reverse heart disease in patients by feeding them a vegan diet

Combine recent optimal sleep study (http://archives.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/02/14/sleep.study/index.html) findings with omni/carn/herbivore sleep patterns, researchers put humans in the herbivore category because we could only possible fit there. (http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/File:SiegelPhylogeny1.gif)

Plant-eaters are the only ones fitting in with our life span (http://www.wonderquest.com/LifeSpan-MaxMin.htm)

You keep saying we have no way of obtaining meat. Let me just tell you to stop. I'm beyond sure I could walk outside, capture an animal, kill it, tear it apart, and consume it like the primal savage I am. As is true in nature, there are more than one way to catch your prey.

Granted, it would be a bitch of a task, it's still possible. So quit with that craptastic excuse of an argument.

It is actually physically impossible, there are dozens of research articles on the physical side of our ability to hunt with only our bodies.

We do not have the speed, agility, locking flexed joints, digitigrade stance, forward deployed weapons (claws), armored front, or the "torpedo" shape found in basically all carnivores.

Oh ya, and we have a skeletal system to resist gravity like all herbivores, and yet meat-eaters use muscles to resist gravity which we cannot do for any length of time.


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

[Origami]

It is actually physically impossible, there are dozens of research articles on the physical side of our ability to hunt with only our bodies.

We do not have the speed, agility, locking flexed joints, digitigrade stance, forward deployed weapons (claws), armored front, or the "torpedo" shape found in basically all carnivores.

Oh ya, and we have a skeletal system to resist gravity like all herbivores, and yet meat-eaters use muscles to resist gravity which we cannot do for any length of time.

Can I slap you yet? There are predators in this world that TRAP their pray through various means. Something we as humans are perfectly capable of doing. With or without the addition of tools. Claws? I don't need claws to tear an animal apart. Thanks. You've obviously never had to help grandma kill and clean a chicken, huh? ;)

Also, where do you keep getting this "one million years" bullshit. One million years ago was not human. It was pre-human, it was the infamous neanderthal! Humans, you and I, have only been around for 200,000 years and in that time we have predominantly eaten meat.

[StoppingTime]

So all that...just to prove humans are more like herbivores than omnivores? Well I'll be damned; here I thought you were debating the many reasons we shouldn't eat meat...interesting.

Also, I'm not really sure how many times I'm going to need to repeat this, but humans don't need to be like animals. We are animals, yes, but we are so much more advanced than any animal is that comparing the two in this argument is stupid.

To you, "humans never should have decided to eat meat." Here's the thing: We did. We did, we do, and we will. If you want to play the "it shouldn't have" game, allow me.

Humans shouldn't pollute because animals don't - we do.
Humans shouldn't tap the Earth's resources because animals don't - we do.
Humans shouldn't discover things and learn more about what to eat and why it may be good for us because animals don't - we do.

I can go on.

[Nellerin]

So all that...just to prove humans are more like herbivores than omnivores? Well I'll be damned; here I thought you were debating the many reasons we shouldn't eat meat...interesting.

Also, I'm not really sure how many times I'm going to need to repeat this, but humans don't need to be like animals. We are animals, yes, but we are so much more advanced than any animal is that comparing the two in this argument is stupid.

To you, "humans never should have decided to eat meat." Here's the thing: We did. We did, we do, and we will. If you want to play the "it shouldn't have" game, allow me.

Humans shouldn't pollute because animals don't - we do.
Humans shouldn't tap the Earth's resources because animals don't - we do.
Humans shouldn't discover things and learn more about what to eat and why it may be good for us because animals don't - we do.

I can go on.

Haha. We should live how we evolved to live.

I will put it this way:

When doctors look to figure out how a person's diet should be, they give that animal certain foods.

Well, when giving humans any meat product whether it is eggs, milk or actual meat, they have negative side effects. However, when giving someone plants they do not have negative side effects (under the right conditions, meaning they get the right amount of each plant) and only receive benefits included reduced risk of numerous diseases and cancer as well as the benefit of living longer.

So, meat=no benefits whereas it is the opposite for plants.

Without any scientific research or professor saying anything, you can conclude as a human being, that we are supposed to eat the thing that is good for us. That is indeed, plants.

[Origami]

Haha. We should live how we evolved to live.


We evolved with the power of ingenuity! We, through invention, became predators! We became masters of the Earth through the evolution of our brains. We can think and therefore we can do.

[StoppingTime]

Haha. We should live how we evolved to live.


Man + gathering = herbivore
Evolution......
Man + weapon = omnivore



You've proven my point, thank you good sir.

[Nellerin]

We evolved with the power of ingenuity! We, through invention, became predators! We became masters of the Earth through the evolution of our brains. We can think and therefore we can do.

What does that have to do with anything. Our insides still cannot process or use meat and it screws up when we give it meat through disease and cancer.

While I agree than we are capable of killing animals and putting them into our mouths, what happens afterwards is still completely herbivorous. Just like if you gave an Elephant some chicken, it could not process it and would become progressively less healthy, we are the same way.

Man + gathering = herbivore
Evolution......
Man + weapon = omnivore



You've proven my point, thank you good sir.

Just like I said above, being able to digest something and use it without negative effects is just as important as being able to attain the food in the first place. While we can attain the meat, we cannot process and digest it correctly in any fashion.

[Magical]

You sure do not understand what B12 is. B12 is only found in microbes that are generally in the soil and water. Well, polution and stripping the soil with overfarming has led to both animals AND plants having much less B12. Even meat-eaters are now supposed to take B12 supplements and so are vegans because plants used to have TWICE the amount of B12 in them especially with plants like Spinach.

"Vitamin B-12 is synthesized by single-celled microbes (bacteria) that live in the soils of the earth. And long ago when the earth and soils were healthy, before we put all sorts of chemicals on them, the surface of the earth was covered with vitamin B-12. There used to be lots of vitamin B-12 in our lives. Even if you were a pure vegetarian 300 years ago, you could open up the back door of your cottage and outside would be a beautiful organic garden. Every carrot you pulled out of the ground would have little particles of vitamin B-12 sticking to it. When it came time to get your water, you'd take a bucket of water out of the stream, and there too you would find vitamin B-12. There would be B-12 under your finger nails from working in the garden. There would be plenty of B-12 in your life, and since you needed so little of it, concerns about deficiency would not be an issue.

"We've become very isolated from the earth and we've lost our natural sources of B-12. Cows have B-12 in their muscles because they're eating grass all day and their pulling up clumps of dirt that have B-12 producing organisms clinging to the root of the grass. They eat the B-12 producing organisms who produce the B-12, which gets absorbed into their bloodstream, goes out into the muscles, and is deposited into their muscles and livers. But that is bacterial B-12 in the cow's muscle. The cow did not make it, nor did the pig or chicken. "

http://www.vegsource.com/klaper/optimum.htm

Thank you for educating me on that. NOW you can go and address my other point.

Thank you.

[Origami]

What does that have to do with anything. Our insides still cannot process or use meat and it screws up when we give it meat through disease and cancer.

While I agree than we are capable of killing animals and putting them into our mouths, what happens afterwards is still completely herbivorous. Just like if you gave an Elephant some chicken, it could not process it and would become progressively less healthy, we are the same way.

And we as humans have learned to develop healthy lifestyles to, guess what, counter act those harmful effects. While it may not absolutely negate them, it does hinder their negative aspects. If it was that bad for us, we'd be dying off far quicker than we do.

[Nellerin]

Thank you for educating me on that. NOW you can go and address my other point.

Thank you.

Okay so I proved your first point incorrect. What was the other one?

And we as humans have learned to develop healthy lifestyles to, guess what, counter act those harmful effects. While it may not absolutely negate them, it does hinder their negative aspects. If it was that bad for us, we'd be dying off far quicker than we do.

1,000,000 people die each year from Cancer and Heart Disease just in the United States. 800,000 of those are preventable through eating the correct way, please tell your "we can negate them" theory to the people that have lost someone to one of these issues because there is an 80% chance that it is diet that caused their death.

[StoppingTime]

1,000,000 people die each year from Cancer and Heart Disease just in the United States. 800,000 of those are preventable through eating the correct way, please tell your "we can negate them" theory to the people that have lost someone to one of these issues because there is an 80% chance that it is diet that caused their death.



You realize other things cause heart disease, yes? (http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/hdw/causes.html)

There is not an 80% chance that eating meat will give you a form of heart disease.

[Origami]

1,000,000 people die each year from Cancer and Heart Disease just in the United States. 800,000 of those are preventable through eating the correct way, please tell your "we can negate them" theory to the people that have lost someone to one of these issues because there is an 80% chance that it is diet that caused their death.

You likely got this from the opinion's of general nutritionists. General nutritionists are not in direct and absolute opposition to the consumption of meat, only the excess. So do not assume that "eating the correct way" means your lovely ideology of an anti-meat world. A large portion of that isn't meat prepared correctly. We're talking fast food, high-grease restaurant food, preservatives, non-meat foods such as caffeinated beverages, high sugars, excess sodium, etc.

Please, go somewhere else with that poor assumption.

[Nellerin]

80% of disease is preventable with diet changes primarily. Obviously you should change to a good diet, and the only diet suited for our body is vegan.

As far as evidence:

This study showed "Vegetarians had a 32% lower risk (HR: 0.68; 95% CI: 0.58, 0.81) of IHD than did nonvegetarians"

And that was just for one specific type of disease.

You likely got this from the opinion's of general nutritionists. General nutritionists are not in direct and absolute opposition to the consumption of meat, only the excess. So do not assume that "eating the correct way" means your lovely ideology of an anti-meat world. A large portion of that isn't meat prepared correctly. We're talking fast food, high-grease restaurant food, preservatives, non-meat foods such as caffeinated beverages, high sugars, excess sodium, etc.

Please, go somewhere else with that poor assumption.

Uhm, more than 80% of the meat currently in America is not prepared correctly. So that is not much of an argument. Since it is virtually impossible to find meat correctly prepared and treated, then going to a vegan diet makes sense especially since there are more health benefits with it.

[Origami]

80% of disease is preventable with diet changes primarily. Obviously you should change to a good diet, and the only diet suited for our body is vegan.

As far as evidence:

This study showed "Vegetarians had a 32% lower risk (HR: 0.68; 95% CI: 0.58, 0.81) of IHD than did nonvegetarians"

And that was just for one specific type of disease.

"With diet changes." Most people's diets consist of poorly prepared meals that are high in fats, grease, sugars, and salts. What about that don't you get? And until eating all veggies STOPS a disease, you can count me out.

Honestly. 120+ replies in a day. You've gotten nowhere so far, why keep trying? You're not convincing anyone to start a garden in their back yard and surrender their meat.

[Nellerin]

"With diet changes." Most people's diets consist of poorly prepared meals that are high in fats, grease, sugars, and salts. What about that don't you get? And until eating all veggies STOPS a disease, you can count me out.

Honestly. 120+ replies in a day. You've gotten nowhere so far, why keep trying? You're not convincing anyone to start a garden in their back yard and surrender their meat.

It pretty much does stop many diseases. And like I said 80% of meat in America is definitely (the number is higher and near 95-98% according to many analysts) is not treated correctly because the animals are not fed the correct nutrients and they are not taken care of in the correct way (yes an animals diet, emotions [stress primarily] and activity) does affect how the meat affects you.

[StoppingTime]

80% of disease is preventable with diet changes primarily. Obviously you should change to a good diet, and the only diet suited for our body is vegan.

As far as evidence:

This study showed "Vegetarians had a 32% lower risk (HR: 0.68; 95% CI: 0.58, 0.81) of IHD than did nonvegetarians"

And that was just for one specific type of disease.



Uhm, more than 80% of the meat currently in America is not prepared correctly. So that is not much of an argument. Since it is virtually impossible to find meat correctly prepared and treated, then going to a vegan diet makes sense especially since there are more health benefits with it.

It's more than just diet, too. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK11795/)

And as Josh said, a "healthy diet" doesn't mean no meat. It means less processed foods, less sugar, salt, etc.

[Nellerin]

It's more than just diet, too. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK11795/)

And as Josh said, a "healthy diet" doesn't mean no meat. It means less processed foods, less sugar, salt, etc.

Like I said, the vast majority of meat in America is not healthy because the animal was not healthy. That is just how it goes, you cannot eat something from an animal that is not healthy and then gain a benefit from it.

[Sugaree]

80% of disease is preventable with diet changes primarily. Obviously you should change to a good diet, and the only diet suited for our body is vegan.

Why are all you vegan types such assholes to other people about the way they live? This is what I've noticed you do the entire thread and your hunting thread:

"Humans shouldn't eat meat because ANIMALS HAVE FEELINGS and if you kill them you're a child killer!"

"Well, you're just wrong because DISEASES come from eating meat."

Follow these two up with generalizations and statistics you are very close to pulling out of your ass like the 80% mark you just posted. And more from you, in terms maybe some of us obviously stupid people might understand:

"Vegans are perfect in all ways because they have evolved."

"Vegans are much better than meat eaters because of their evolved stature."

"If you're not a vegan, you're a stupid meat-eater that supports the torture of animals."

And follow these up with even MORE generalizations for people who eat meat.

I eat meat. Does that make me an animal torturer? No! It makes me a meat-eater. I also enjoy eating steamed vegetables with my meat, like potatoes, green beans, corn...even broccoli here and there. But to tell people like me to change my diet so drastically, to take any significant proteins out of my life and expect it to work for me in any general way? No. No, diets don't work like that, you smartass (and I say "smart" against better judgement, you certainly don't show it). Diets need to be a balance of fruits/vegetables, meat, dairy, and wheat. Vegans have it all wrong, because it's like trying to live off of bread and cheese. You'll survive, but just barely. Whether or not these benefits you and your professor friends claim are true, anyone who goes strictly vegan is fucking nuts.

Just because some vegetables have protein does not mean that is enough protein for the human body. If anything, a human body itself is a protein machine. Obviously you have not taken a simple biology course. This is shit I learned in freshman year, while you obviously have yet to evolve to this standard of knowledge (what a surprise, and you seemed like such an intelligent individual).

I don't know very much regarding the science of the human body, but I know enough to safely say that your arguments, or lack thereof, are bullshit and should be regarded as such by everyone who has any lick of common sense and a logical thinking process. So you have two options: Shut the fuck up or get the fuck out. No one needs to hear your whining about this anymore.

[Origami]

It pretty much does stop many diseases. And like I said 80% of meat in America is definitely (the number is higher and near 95-98% according to many analysts) is not treated correctly because the animals are not fed the correct nutrients and they are not taken care of in the correct way (yes an animals diet, emotions [stress primarily] and activity) does affect how the meat affects you.

If you don't have at least and 80% reduction, I don't consider it "pretty much stopped" at all.

And you're right. What animals are fed does influence the meat. As does their emotion. Solution? Stricter regulations on how the animals are slaughtered, fed, and housed. "Sad animals make bad meat, therefore meat is bad" isn't a sound argument.

But you know! You can buy your meat from the place of your choice. You have the option, if you please, to purchase meat from a farm where animals are housed and fed to your wishes! Because guess what! These happy, healthy animal places do exist! While they do need to be more common.

[Nellerin]

Why are all you vegan types such assholes to other people about the way they live? This is what I've noticed you do the entire thread and your hunting thread:

"Humans shouldn't eat meat because ANIMALS HAVE FEELINGS and if you kill them you're a child killer!"

"Well, you're just wrong because DISEASES come from eating meat."

Follow these two up with generalizations and statistics you are very close to pulling out of your ass like the 80% mark you just posted. And more from you, in terms maybe some of us obviously stupid people might understand:

"Vegans are perfect in all ways because they have evolved."

"Vegans are much better than meat eaters because of their evolved stature."

"If you're not a vegan, you're a stupid meat-eater that supports the torture of animals."

And follow these up with even MORE generalizations for people who eat meat.

I eat meat. Does that make me an animal torturer? No! It makes me a meat-eater. I also enjoy eating steamed vegetables with my meat, like potatoes, green beans, corn...even broccoli here and there. But to tell people like me to change my diet so drastically, to take any significant proteins out of my life and expect it to work for me in any general way? No. No, diets don't work like that, you smartass (and I say "smart" against better judgement, you certainly don't show it). Diets need to be a balance of fruits/vegetables, meat, dairy, and wheat. Vegans have it all wrong, because it's like trying to live off of bread and cheese. You'll survive, but just barely. Whether or not these benefits you and your professor friends claim are true, anyone who goes strictly vegan is fucking nuts.

Just because some vegetables have protein does not mean that is enough protein for the human body. If anything, a human body itself is a protein machine. Obviously you have not taken a simple biology course. This is shit I learned in freshman year, while you obviously have yet to evolve to this standard of knowledge (what a surprise, and you seemed like such an intelligent individual).

I don't know very much regarding the science of the human body, but I know enough to safely say that your arguments, or lack thereof, are bullshit and should be regarded as such by everyone who has any lick of common sense and a logical thinking process. So you have two options: Shut the fuck up or get the fuck out. No one needs to hear your whining about this anymore.

Someone's a little mad today.

First off, the 80% stat is not bullshit, from the Washington Post: "Today, four corporations slaughter 80 percent of the cattle in the United States." Do I really need to show you what goes on it the slaughterhouses and "farms" of those four companies.

I never said Vegans evolved, that does not even make sense?

Animals do have feelings that are identical to humans in most ways, can you dispute that.

Anyone with common sense would listen to me. Also, I am not just shouting random shit. I am not saying anything that PHD's, professors, MD's and other researchers have not found to be true.

If you don't have at least and 80% reduction, I don't consider it "pretty much stopped" at all.

And you're right. What animals are fed does influence the meat. As does their emotion. Solution? Stricter regulations on how the animals are slaughtered, fed, and housed. "Sad animals make bad meat, therefore meat is bad" isn't a sound argument.

But you know! You can buy your meat from the place of your choice. You have the option, if you please, to purchase meat from a farm where animals are housed and fed to your wishes! Because guess what! These happy, healthy animal places do exist! While they do need to be more common.

Actually, those places are rare. This is a place that is a regular family-owned farm which people considered good. But you are never allowed to see what happens behind the scenes, well, someone got in and did.

-inappropriate video removed. -Emerald Dream

Merged. -StoppingTime

[Origami]

Actually, those places are rare. This is a place that is a regular family-owned farm which people considered good. But you are never allowed to see what happens behind the scenes, well, someone got in and did.
-inappropriate video removed. -Emerald Dream

I never said they were common, but thanks for confirming public knowledge, kiddo. I even said they need to be more common. Meat needs to be healthier than it currently is, we all know this.

You act shocked! Any idiot who believes a company who hides it's processes deserve to be deceived. I mean, really.

Also, I love how you ignored my comment earlier about how your "humans at plants 1 million years ago" was a load of crap.

[Professional Russian]

Then fine I am a hippy. What is wrong with that? Last time I checked the hippies in the 60's did the following:


Promote Peace

Promote Love

Expand their Consciousness


All of those things are good, and something you guys should do more of.



If a dictionary does not help, then using the incorrect word surely does not.

Twat means Female Genitalia. And the only people currently using it as an insult simply are not of the intelligentsia or of any other mental high-class.

Fuck your mental high class. You act like you know everything under the sun. You don't. Get over it. And while I'm at it. If you don't like the meat can buy go shoot your own. If it lived in woods it didn't have any of that bullshit in them like you say

[Skyline]

I noticed that you listed things that differ from Carnivores to Herbivores.. But what about fucking omnivores? You know... both carnivore and herbivore...

[Nellerin]

I never said they were common, but thanks for confirming public knowledge, kiddo. I even said they need to be more common. Meat needs to be healthier than it currently is, we all know this.

You act shocked! Any idiot who believes a company who hides it's processes deserve to be deceived. I mean, really.

Also, I love how you ignored my comment earlier about how your "humans at plants 1 million years ago" was a load of crap.

From Scientific American and their quotes and cites of recent studies:

"If you want to return to your ancestral diet, the one our ancestors ate when most of the features of our guts were evolving, you might reasonably eat what our ancestors spent the most time eating during the largest periods of the evolution of our guts, fruits, nuts, and vegetables—especially fungus-covered tropical leaves."

"We have special immune systems, special brains, even special hands, but our guts are ordinary and for tens of millions of years those ordinary guts have tended to be filled with fruit, leaves, and the occasional delicacy of a raw hummingbird4."

"A paper out just this month suggests that even Neanderthals–our north country cousins and mates– may have eaten much more plant material than previously suspected."

As far as who ate what when, it varied by region and no one has a definitive answer but that is what is currently being thrown around quite often, however it may have been later. It could have easily been 4.5 million years ago that everyone was vegan. It doesn't change much since we have not evolved to eat differently since then.

I noticed that you listed things that differ from Carnivores to Herbivores.. But what about fucking omnivores? You know... both carnivore and herbivore...

Of course...

"Carnivores sleep the most, herbivores the least, and omnivores in the middle. Guess which group our own sleep correlates with.
Here are some charts from an article in Nature. They have stuck us (and other primates) in the omnivore group but notice that we’re at the extreme end of that chart, with nearly every other single omnivore sleeping more than we do. However, we fit nicely in the herbivore chart. A prominent dot for humans is added to the herbivore chart to show how we fit in at eight hours a night."

"Dean Ornish, M.D. was the first person to prove that heart disease can be reversed, and he did so by feeding his patients a vegetarian diet. John McDougall, M.D. has also written extensively about how animal foods cause disease, and how people can regain their health by eating vegan instead. The esteemed T. Colin Campbell oversaw the most massive study of the relationship between diet and disease, the China Study, which the New York Times called “the grand prix of epidemiology.” His conclusions are the same as the other experts: we’re not designed to eat animal foods, because we get sick when we do."

"A carnivore’s or omnivore’s small intestine is 3 to 6 times the length of its trunk. This is designed for rapid elimination of food that rots quickly. An herbivore’s small intestine is 10 to 12 times the length of its trunk, and winds itself back and forth in random directions. This is designed for keeping food in it for long enough periods of time to extract all the valuable nutrients and minerals before the food enters the large intestine....Care to guess which type of intestines we have? (Hint: Human small intestines are about 10 times our torso length and our large intestines are puckered.)"\

There are many more, but everything puts us in the herbivore and not omnivore category.

[Magical]

Okay so I proved your first point incorrect. What was the other one?


'You can't dismiss analysis. You can't dismiss all that work - and in addition, I quotemine from the article so that you read it: 'In the long term, the consumption of, in particular, red and processed meats is linked to increased risk of cardiovascular disease, certain cancers, and diabetes.'.

Go on, read it.'

This point.

Oh, and here's the link (http://thisreviewoflife.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/shattering-vegetarian-myth-meat.html).

[Nellerin]

'You can't dismiss analysis. You can't dismiss all that work - and in addition, I quotemine from the article so that you read it: 'In the long term, the consumption of, in particular, red and processed meats is linked to increased risk of cardiovascular disease, certain cancers, and diabetes.'.

Go on, read it.'

This point.

Oh, and here's the link (http://thisreviewoflife.blogspot.com.au/2012/04/shattering-vegetarian-myth-meat.html).

Please provide a source that is not someone's personal blog and opinion from a .blogspot site of all things. Cooking meat is the only thing that affected changes in brain function because we were getting even more diseases from raw meat prior to cooking.

[Origami]

From Scientific American and their quotes and cites of recent studies:

"If you want to return to your ancestral diet, the one our ancestors ate when most of the features of our guts were evolving, you might reasonably eat what our ancestors spent the most time eating during the largest periods of the evolution of our guts, fruits, nuts, and vegetables—especially fungus-covered tropical leaves."

"We have special immune systems, special brains, even special hands, but our guts are ordinary and for tens of millions of years those ordinary guts have tended to be filled with fruit, leaves, and the occasional delicacy of a raw hummingbird4."

"A paper out just this month suggests that even Neanderthals–our north country cousins and mates– may have eaten much more plant material than previously suspected."

As far as who ate what when, it varied by region and no one has a definitive answer but that is what is currently being thrown around quite often, however it may have been later. It could have easily been 4.5 million years ago that everyone was vegan. It doesn't change much since we have not evolved to eat differently since then.

"4.5 million years ago" was not modern humans. We evolved from that and around 200,000 years ago when our modern forms developed, guess what, we started eating meat.

Again I ask, why continue a crusade that no one is buying into?

[ImCoolBeans]

You keep on talking about evolution, but you're ignoring the fact that the human diet evolved into containing meat. This was nature's course of action, if the human body isn't 100% built for consuming meat then who is to say that isn't because we aren't done evolving yet. Modern science has not yet had enough time to watch humans develop new, evolutionary traits or characteristics. Maybe you're halting evolution? *gasp* That's counter-productive to mother nature. I don't eat a ton of meat, hardly any in fact, but that's a personal choice, neither you nor I can speak for the entire population. Your argument isn't very strong, your sources aren't very credible, you lost before the debate really even started.

[britishboy]

all right because of my food tech classes I cab confirm that protein is needed, and to be honest I think vegetarians are stupid, you have to supplement the protein and 'killing animals' is a pathetic reasons to eat meat, they just animals

[DerBear]

I believe people have the right to choose what they want to eat. If they don't want to eat meat then fair enough, different strokes for different folks.

[Jevon]

I hate how slaughter houses process the meat because the animal is inhumanly killed...infact they aren't quite dead when they start processing them...and I love my fruits and vegetables don't get me wrong but I don't know if I could live with out a cheese burger or a nice rare filet mignion every once in a while they just taste way to good I'm sorry

[Human]

Humans hands were designed for punching and holding tools such as knives, not to type away at a computer. Let's give up keyboards!
Humans forward facing eyes found primarily on predators due to the depth you can see were designed so you could search for fruit. (oh, and watching computer screens)
The shoulder of the human is designed like a slingshot for throwing spears, so we can effectively pursue and take down large trees to chew on their bark.

"Our closest relatives among the apes are the chimpanzees (i.e., anatomically, behaviorally, genetically, and evolutionarily), who frequently kill and eat other mammals (including other primates)."

"The only primates on the list with pure diets were the very small species (which are entirely insectivorous) and the largest (which specialize in vegetarian diet). "

"Nearly all plant eaters have fermenting vats (enlarged chambers where foods sits and microbes attack it). Ruminants like cattle and deer have forward sacs derived from remodeled esophagus and stomach. Horses, rhinos, and colobine monkeys have posterior, hindgut sacs. Humans have no such specializations."

"Interestingly, the primates with the largest canines (gorillas and gelada baboons) both have basically vegetarian diets."

"Humans are classic examples of omnivores in all relevant anatomical traits. There is no basis in anatomy or physiology for the assumption that humans are pre-adapted to the vegetarian diet. For that reason, the best arguments in support of a meat-free diet remain ecological, ethical, and health concerns."

So that list of quotes basically summed up that we are omnivores, not carnivores.

[Rayquaza]

I'm just going to squeeze this in here

because some people think they know better than actual nutritionists.

http://www.actimel.co.uk/SiteImages/Assets/1/1/EasyPeasyLunches_Foodwheel.jpg

[DarkWingedAngel]

Yep, or only veggies. When you actually look at Vegan food, it is cheaper and there are insane amounts of choices and variety. Not to mention the foods that have been made to taste just like meat for people that really miss dairy/meat products.
I was vegan for a long time, the food is actually more expencive. In fact you say being vegan is healty for you, my doc forced me back on to meat because I was so sick.

What does a male have to do with anything? An egg is a HEN'S PERIOD just like a human female period....

They do not get fertilized so every so often the hen discharges and then you eat it.

And ya cows are raped to produce milk. hahahahHa you are funny. Dude they lay eggs because it is an unborn chick.

Oh wow, yes I'm eating hen period. It does taste very nice in a sandwhich. Period.

Cows are raped loooooolll you don't realize how funny you are. But I forgot that your more qualified than my doctor.

Next time I break my arm I have a choice between

A 16 year old who has insulted my intelligence on a teen forum or a qualified doctor who did med school followed by training, such a hard choice I would not trust this kid with my life lol.

I like meat, it tastes good, so I'll eat meat. I agree with this.

"Cows cry." "Only humans can show compassion." You derped.

I enjoy alcohol, does that mean I have a low IQ for slowly killing myself? You're gonna die anyway, shit. Might as well be able to pick your favorite poison.
Agreed.

[Capto]

Haha. We should live how we evolved to live.

Well this was amusing to read.

[Stronk Serb]

Since my last post (regarding Hunting) was closed down since it got off topic and began to stray into the health effects of eating meat, I decided to make an actual thread regarding Humans and the FACT that they are Herbivores and not Omnivores and definitely not Carnivores.

One you realize this, hunting sort of fixes itself, since there is no need for it (since we should never eat meat.)

Dr. T. Colin Campbell, professor emeritus at Cornell University and author of The China Study, explains that in fact, we only recently (historically speaking) began eating meat, and that the inclusion of meat in our diet came well after we became who we are today. He explains that "the birth of agriculture only started about 10,000 years ago at a time when it became considerably more convenient to herd animals. This is not nearly as long as the time [that] fashioned our basic biochemical functionality (at least tens of millions of years) and which functionality depends on the nutrient composition of plant-based foods." 1

Sure, most of us are "behavioral omnivores"--that is, we eat meat, so that defines us as omnivorous. But our evolution and physiology are herbivorous, and ample science proves that when we choose to eat meat, that causes problems, from decreased energy and a need for more sleep up to increased risk for obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. 1

Proof of our Herbivorous Nature


Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.

Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.

Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.

Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.

Fiber. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.

Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.

Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.


It is simply amazing how well the Meat, Egg, and Dairy insustry has changed what people think regarding animals and have (somehow) made people think that eating meat is good even when we know for a fact that it is not.

Not sure how anyone can justify any of these things, will all of the information that we have:


Killing an Animal

Using Animals for Sports (horse racing, dog racing, circus animals)

Eating an Animal


FOR THE FULL REASON WHY YOU SHOULD NOT EAT MEAT, SEE THIS VIDEO (IT HAS OVER 1.7 MILLION VIEWS)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

PRIMARY SOURCES:

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2005/09/are-humans-carnivores-or-herbivores-2/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kathy-freston/shattering-the-meat-myth_b_214390.html
http://www.adaptt.org/index.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=es6U00LMmC4

My fangs are pretty capable of subduing lesser pray like live chicken, turkey and quite possibly other humans. My nails if left unattended for long can be pretty sharp and can peel of your skin. Thousands of plants are getting killed every day and are eaten by vegetarians, let all of us unite and stop the plant genocide!

[Camazotz]

hahahahHa you are funny. Dude they lay eggs because it is an unborn chick.

Actually, he's right. The chicken eggs that people eat are technically the unfertilized egg of a hen. Obviously there are differences between a human "period" and a chicken egg, but if you get down to the simple definitions of the two, they are both "unfertilized eggs."

Yes, hens also lay eggs that hatch into baby chicks, but the eggs that you buy from the store the unfertilized ones.

[lightPainting]

I was vegan for a long time, the food is actually more expencive. In fact you say being vegan is healty for you, my doc forced me back on to meat because I was so sick.

what were you eating, because you were probably detoxing, not sick

[DarkWingedAngel]

what were you eating, because you were probably detoxing, not sick
No I was sick, I have health problems that require meat to be in my body. Ifi dont eat meat then I get vary sick. I need balance, I cant get iron in my body from anything except meat. Meat is what keeps me alive. Dont try and diagnose what I had thanks, I would know what happened my doc was there. I was at the hospital hooked up to iv and a shit load of different vitimens going into me through the iv.
Your not a doctor. Dont tell me what was happeing.

[lightPainting]

No I was sick, I have health problems that require meat to be in my body. Ifi dont eat meat then I get vary sick. I need balance, I cant get iron in my body from anything except meat. Meat is what keeps me alive. Dont try and diagnose what I had thanks, I would know what happened my doc was there. I was at the hospital hooked up to iv and a shit load of different vitimens going into me through the iv.
Your not a doctor. Dont tell me what was happeing.

Ok, but what were you eating? And you can get iron from dark leafy greens

[britishboy]

Ok, but what were you eating? And you can get iron from dark leafy greens

notice we have sharp incisors and canines, we need meat, and its a very important part of our diet, and I would rather eat the tasty meat(sorry I really dont care about my dinner) than them horrid supplements.
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/1517/r9o8.jpg (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/r9o8.jpg/)

http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/3089/kwrb.jpg (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/kwrb.jpg/)

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/2640/cu1d.jpg (http://img545.imageshack.us/i/cu1d.jpg/)

[Stronk Serb]

notice we have sharp incisors and canines, we need meat, and its a very important part of our diet, and I would rather eat the tasty meat(sorry I really dont care about my dinner) than them horrid supplements.
image (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/r9o8.jpg/)

image (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/kwrb.jpg/)

image (http://img545.imageshack.us/i/cu1d.jpg/)


Meat is mostly in my diet, and I have no health problems. I tried not to eat meat for a week, after three days I was hungry as hell, no matter how much green stuff I ate, I was hungry. I needed red, juicy, delicious meat, got back to normal instantly. And yeah, end the violence and genocide against plants! :D

[Kameraden]

I'm not reading through every page, so sorry if this was already said:

Do you not realize that Homo Sapiens and Neanderthal Man, who evolved from Homo Erectus, are not herbivores. Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals were omnivores (omni means all, and vore means eater, so there you have "all-eaters") The strength of Homo Sapiens and Neanderthal man was not running, nor was it biting nor wrestling -- we have the ability to create weapons, weapons which we used to hack, slash, and maim; using the jaw and tooth shape is a very dated and fallatic argument.

[britishboy]

Meat is mostly in my diet, and I have no health problems. I tried not to eat meat for a week, after three days I was hungry as hell, no matter how much green stuff I ate, I was hungry. I needed red, juicy, delicious meat, got back to normal instantly. And yeah, end the violence and genocide against plants! :D

haha I would be suicidal without meat:P and all them innocent plants killed, no one thinks of them:D

[CharlieHorse]

SHOULD be herbivores?
All the shoulda woulda couldas got scared away by one did.

[lightPainting]

Meat is mostly in my diet, and I have no health problems. I tried not to eat meat for a week, after three days I was hungry as hell, no matter how much green stuff I ate, I was hungry. I needed red, juicy, delicious meat, got back to normal instantly. And yeah, end the violence and genocide against plants! :D

do you have acne and have you ever been sick?{not saying that if you've ever been sick it's because of the meat}

[Kameraden]

You people are ridiculous...

[lightPainting]

notice we have sharp incisors and canines, we need meat, and its a very important part of our diet, and I would rather eat the tasty meat(sorry I really dont care about my dinner) than them horrid supplements.
image (http://img841.imageshack.us/i/r9o8.jpg/)

image (http://img837.imageshack.us/i/kwrb.jpg/)

image (http://img545.imageshack.us/i/cu1d.jpg/)
what does meat have that we need in our diets? {protein: found in fruits and vegetables, B12: found in coconut milk }

[Stronk Serb]

do you have acne and have you ever been sick?{not saying that if you've ever been sick it's because of the meat}


Sick from the meat? Nope, what is acne?

[lightPainting]

where do you guys (who love meat) get your vitamin C or B?

[Kameraden]

You don't understand that no one eats only meat, do you?

[lightPainting]

Sick from the meat? Nope, what is acne?

so you've never had a sick day or been 'under the weather'?
ACNE: pimples or oil on the skin

You don't understand that no one eats only meat, do you?

I understand that. I just want to know were you get your vitamin C and B.

Merged Double Post. -StoppingTime

[Hyper]

From eating fruits and vegetables.

[Kameraden]

I understand that. I just want to know were you get your vitamin C and B.

Fruits and potatoes respectively, why?

[britishboy]

Fruits and potatoes respectively, why?

wait why are you vegetarian, please explain the point of it?
http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/310/3a6.jpg (http://img546.imageshack.us/i/3a6.jpg/)

[Hyper]

He didn't say he is vegetarian. He answered a question.

Reading comprehension /facepalm

[tovaris]

Homans are not herbevors, humns eat meet since this species began and even before that meet got us to this stage and wil hopefuly get us frew it.

[lightPainting]

Fruits and potatoes respectively, why?

From eating fruits and vegetables.

Vitamin B & C are water soluble vitamins, which means that they are NOT stored in our bodys. They are also VERY important for leading a healthy and a joyful life. We need a constant 'flow' of C & B, and fruit and vegetables are rich in them.
Now i'm NOT saying that you need to stop eating meat. That is your right and your choice to eat what you want. I just want to in form about fruits and vegetable. I also want to encourage you to learn about the Raw food community and learn from people like DR Robert Morse.

[Hyper]

Vitamin B & C are water soluble vitamins, which means that they are NOT stored in our bodys. They are also VERY important for leading a healthy and a joyful life. We need a constant 'flow' of C & B, and fruit and vegetables are rich in them.
Now i'm NOT saying that you need to stop eating meat. That is your right and your choice to eat what you want. I just want to in form about fruits and vegetable. I also want to encourage you to learn about the Raw food community and learn from people like DR Robert Morse.

You aren't informing me of anything really.

Nobody here who said they eat meat or objected to a vegan lifestyle proclaimed a total meat based diet.

Infact I have never seen/heard anyone do so. For some reason there is only one extreme of people on one side of the so called spectrum. A spectrum that they simply made themselves with their own extremism.

But if you want to start some sort of discussion on this raw food community or Dr Morse fellow you should make another thread since this ''debate'' has run its awful course.

[lightPainting]

You aren't informing me of anything really.

Nobody here who said they eat meat or objected to a vegan lifestyle proclaimed a total meat based diet.

Infact I have never seen/heard anyone do so. For some reason there is only one extreme of people on one side of the so called spectrum. A spectrum that they simply made themselves with their own extremism.

But if you want to start some sort of discussion on this raw food community or Dr Morse fellow you should make another thread since this ''debate'' has run its awful course.

Did you know that vitamin C is a natural antihistamine & that most americans have a vitamin C deficiency

[Hyper]

Did you know that vitamin C is a natural antihistamine & that most americans have a vitamin C deficiency

First part yes

Second part no. I am not American.

[Emerald Dream]

Please do not bash or insult other members. This will not be tolerated. If you do not have anything to add to the actual topic, then please keep your negativity to yourself.

Please stay on topic.

[DarkWingedAngel]

Ok, but what were you eating? And you can get iron from dark leafy greens no I can not, didnt I just say that I can ONLY get iron from meat products. I have a health condition that requires meat to be in my life. Iron is only one of things, I dont get any nutrients from greens and veg. Dont tell me what I can eat to get nutrients.

[lightPainting]

no I can not, didnt I just say that I can ONLY get iron from meat products. I have a health condition that requires meat to be in my life. Iron is only one of things, I dont get any nutrients from greens and veg. Dont tell me what I can eat to get nutrients.

Oh...ok, so you have a probable with absorption. What is your heath condition called & what were you eating when you were on the vegetarian lifestyle?

[Stronk Serb]

where do you guys (who love meat) get your vitamin C or B?

Bananas, lemonade, orange juice and (when you squeeze the juice out of them, not the juice you buy in a store) and vegetables. I don't eat only meat. I am an omnivore which means I get my needed nutrients from both meat and vegetables. I think that I would hardly survive if I was only eating plants or meat.

[lightPainting]

Bananas, lemonade, orange juice and (when you squeeze the juice out of them, not the juice you buy in a store) and vegetables. I don't eat only meat. I am an omnivore which means I get my needed nutrients from both meat and vegetables. I think that I would hardly survive if I was only eating plants or meat.

I know that no one only eats meat. what Im saying is, what nutritional value does meat have?

[Origami]

I know that no one only eats meat. what Im saying is, what nutritional value does meat have that can't be obtained elsewhere?

I fixed that for you.

But to answer your original question: protein, iron, zinc, magnesium, vitamin E, and B vitamins (thiamine, niacin, and vitamins B6 and B12).

[TheBigUnit]

Meat is not the wprst thibg for you, carbs are (from grains not veggies)

[Caldwell]

More for me

[Origami]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m15qlpLSgj1r68x0io1_500.gif

[TheBigUnit]

More for me

Haha this, heck japan has like the longest average lifespan and their country is based heavily on meat

[britishboy]

alright whos the crazy vegetarian?

[Adam17]

It is not debatable, they have looked at thousands of test subjects to show that indeed, people that eat meat have higher rates of diseases and cancers.

Why would the FDA (the same people that approve numerous disease-causing medicines) say anything about meat when it is a multi-billion dollar industry. We kill more than 10 billion land animals each year for food which accounts for 98% of all of the animals abused and killed in the US. http://farmusa.org/statistics11.html

Please explain how the human body is only built to process non-meat products then, if we are supposed to consume meat?


Both of those videos are great, the first one is "funny" but it gets the point across very well. Thanks for sharing.

In terms of evolution, humans simply cannot and should not eat meat.


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream
Do you know what the purpose of the appendix is? The appendix helps in the digestion of raw meat. Yes it is basically useless now on the human body but that is because we have adapted after humans started cooking food. All carnivorous animals have a appendix for this purpose. So nothing in the human body is for eating meat?