Against gay marriage!

[Jasperf]

Hey is there anyone on here that is against gay marriage, and if so why? I would really like to hear your side if the storey.
I was wondering where I should put this, and because I wanna discuss the topic rather then get an answer I put it here instead of realtionships and dating :)

[Emerald Dream]

This is more of a debate than anything.

The White Padded Room :arrow: Ramblings of the Wise

[teen.jpg]

Be warned - this topic WILL turn into a debate.

[Jasperf]

This is more of a debate than anything.

The White Padded Room :arrow: Ramblings of the Wise
Okay sweet (:
Be warned - this topic WILL turn into a debate.

That's the plan! :p

[Walter Powers]

The argument against gay marriage is that Christians view marriage as holy and obviously that directly contradicts with homosexuality, which is a sin. I can see how they would be offended by it. I can also see how homosexuals may feel they are being denied a right.

First, let me just say this should be a state issue. This isn't the federal governments business. Second, I think that the best solution for a state to enact is a compromise where marriage, straight or gay, isn't officially recodinized. "Civil unions" for everyone. How does that idea sound?

[Jasperf]

First, let me just say this should be a state issue. This isn't the federal governments business.
Well I live in NZ so this post actually has not much to do with the recent law change in America (: it's how people feel toward gay marriage personally

[Stronger]

The argument against gay marriage is that Christians view marriage as holy and obviously that directly contradicts with homosexuality, which is a sin. I can see how they would be offended by it. I can also see how homosexuals may feel they are being denied a right.

First, let me just say this should be a state issue. This isn't the federal governments business. Second, I think that the best solution for a state to enact is a compromise where marriage, straight or gay, isn't officially recodinized. "Civil unions" for everyone. How does that idea sound?

Why though?

[Gigablue]

First, let me just say this should be a state issue. This isn't the federal governments business. Second, I think that the best solution for a state to enact is a compromise where marriage, straight or gay, isn't officially recodinized. "Civil unions" for everyone. How does that idea sound?

It shouldn't be a state issue, or any other type of internal division within a country. It is a basic human rights issue. The federal government of any country in which same sax marriage is illegal should immediately make it legal, otherwise they are violating the basic human rights of citizens.

I don't really see the point in creating a different term for it. Marriage as a word works just fine. However, I wouldn't be against it as long as all people have the same rights. If, for whatever reason, calling all marriages, same sex or otherwise, 'civil unions' would bring more equality then I'd support it.

[Capto]

The federal government of any country in which same sax marriage is illegal should immediately make it legal, otherwise they are violating the basic human rights of citizens.

What basic human rights, if I may ask, do you speak of?

[Camazotz]

Why though?

This ^

If they mean the same thing, what's the point of changing the name? To make more people comfortable? No, it doesn't matter, people will still refer to it as marriage.

[teen.jpg]

What basic human rights, if I may ask, do you speak of?

Marriage.

[Gigablue]

What basic human rights, if I may ask, do you speak of?

Article 16 section 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.


Note that even though it references 'men and women', there is nothing saying that a man can only marry a woman and vice versa. It simply states that all people are entitled to the right to marry.

[Sugaree]

"Civil unions" for everyone. How does that idea sound?

Sounds good on paper, but it doesn't come with the benefits of an actual state-recognized marriage. While it IS a state issue, the federal government should have no problem giving legally married gay couples the same benefits of a married straight couple.

[Troy35216]

The argument against gay marriage is that Christians view marriage as holy and obviously that directly contradicts with homosexuality, which is a sin.
i'm really tired of people saying "Christians believe...." as if every single Christian denomination believes the same thing about this issue. the fact is SOME Christians believe it's wrong. Some Christians believe it's perfectly fine. Just like SOME Jews/Mormons/Muslims/Buddhists think it's wrong and some think it's right. When the supreme court announced their decision a whole bunch of religious leaders had a press conference saying they thought it was about time: http://www.sfbg.com/politics/2013/06/26/religious-leaders-celebrate-supreme-court-decision-upholding-marriage-equality

so Christians are NOT in agreement on this. some think one way and some think another way. Lutherans and Episcopalians even have Gay Bishops!

[Capto]

Article 16 section 1 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.



Note that even though it references 'men and women', there is nothing saying that a man can only marry a woman and vice versa. It simply states that all people are entitled to the right to marry.

Too vague.

[Jasperf]

Too vague.

Haha, but it's the deceleration of human rights :p it doesn't matter if its vague... It's like a universal law :p

[Gigablue]

Too vague.

What exactly is vague? It is clearly stated that marriage is a universal human right.

[Capto]

What exactly is vague? It is clearly stated that marriage is a universal human right.

There should be an addendum specifying same-sex marriage, to deny contention.

[Gigablue]

There should be an addendum specifying same-sex marriage, to deny contention.

There have been declarations made by the UN Human Rights Council that affirm that same sex marriage should be allowed. Additionally, almost 100 member states have voted for a resolution that affirms this.

[Capto]

There have been declarations made by the UN Human Rights Council that affirm that same sex marriage should be allowed. Additionally, almost 100 member states have voted for a resolution that affirms this.

Nonetheless, if the UDHR is 'universal', then there should be an addendum applied to article 16 regardless.

[Jevon]

I just think if two people want to get married then let them...well unless you are related then that's a little to far....but if two people love each other enough I think they should be aloud to get married

[Walter Powers]

i'm really tired of people saying "Christians believe...." as if every single Christian denomination believes the same thing about this issue. the fact is SOME Christians believe it's wrong. Some Christians believe it's perfectly fine. Just like SOME Jews/Mormons/Muslims/Buddhists think it's wrong and some think it's right. When the supreme court announced their decision a whole bunch of religious leaders had a press conference saying they thought it was about time: http://www.sfbg.com/politics/2013/06/26/religious-leaders-celebrate-supreme-court-decision-upholding-marriage-equality

so Christians are NOT in agreement on this. some think one way and some think another way. Lutherans and Episcopalians even have Gay Bishops!

My apoligies. I should have worded that "many Christians believe.."

Why though?

It respects the feelings of those who feel marriage is holy and homosexuality is a sin while also respecting homosexuals rights.


Sounds good on paper, but it doesn't come with the benefits of an actual state-recognized marriage. While it IS a state issue, the federal government should have no problem giving legally married gay couples the same benefits of a married straight couple.

I agree, but what kind of benefits are we talking about here? Just curious.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Jasperf]

I still want someone strongly against it because of religious reasons to start up haha

[Sugaree]

I agree, but what kind of benefits are we talking about here? Just curious.

http://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Family/7-Tax-Advantages-of-Getting-Married-/INF17870.html

http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/personal-income-taxes/5-tax-benefits-of-marriage.htm#page=0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States

These are three links you might interested in. The first two relate to the tax benefits of marriage while the third relates to legal benefits.

[Jasperf]

http://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/tax-tips/Family/7-Tax-Advantages-of-Getting-Married-/INF17870.html

http://money.howstuffworks.com/personal-finance/personal-income-taxes/5-tax-benefits-of-marriage.htm#page=0

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States

These are three links you might interested in. The first two relate to the tax benefits of marriage while the third relates to legal benefits.

What about your personal opinion?

[Walter Powers]

I still want someone strongly against it because of religious reasons to start up haha

Why? You think you'll convert them to Atheism? If you want to start another thread I'd be more then happy to debate why Atheism is totally illogical.

[Jasperf]

Why? You think you'll convert them to Atheism? If you want to start another thread I'd be more then happy to debate why Atheism is totally illogical.

Na, not to get them to convert :P i would never expect someone to abandon their faith. I simply like to make them respect their faith more, and make sure they really know what they think they believe(: because quite often people who are against homosexuality because of the bible, dont actually know what the bible says on homosexuality (:

[foxtrot.12]

please dont attack me anyone but i am against it because i believe what the bible says in Romans chapter 1 verse 27 of the King James Version (oldest translated version) of the bible and that is that it's a sin. i believe it's just a strong feeling to get us in trouble its hard to pick a side when you are young and horny but i really believe that

oh and Pres. Obama doesnt seem to notice that people who don't support it can't voice their opinion in their private business or in public without being sued. sorry but that's a right too ya know and i'd like to live in peace without people telling me im in the kkk and trying to teach my kids a different way


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Quick_Sylver]

please dont attack me anyone but i am against it because i believe what the bible says in Romans chapter 1 verse 27 of the King James Version (oldest translated version) of the bible and that is that it's a sin. i believe it's just a strong feeling to get us in trouble its hard to pick a side when you are young and horny but i really believe that

Alright, alright. Valid opinion, within reason.... But then you gave a reason why it'd be considered invalid.

Isn't that a bit... sacrilegious?

By referring to the Old Testament, and saying it's a sin, you're ignoring the New Testament and the sacrifice of God's kid to say homosexuality and gay marriage is a sin, when Jesus also taught not to judge - http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611_Matthew-7-2/ .

[Jasperf]

please dont attack me anyone but i am against it because i believe what the bible says in Romans chapter 1 verse 27 of the King James Version (oldest translated version) of the bible and that is that it's a sin. i believe it's just a strong feeling to get us in trouble its hard to pick a side when you are young and horny but i really believe that

Okay, but may I just say that the bible does not say that homosexuality is wrong.

[ImCoolBeans]

The argument against gay marriage is that Christians view marriage as holy and obviously that directly contradicts with homosexuality, which is a sin. I can see how they would be offended by it. I can also see how homosexuals may feel they are being denied a right.

First, let me just say this should be a state issue. This isn't the federal governments business. Second, I think that the best solution for a state to enact is a compromise where marriage, straight or gay, isn't officially recodinized. "Civil unions" for everyone. How does that idea sound?

Can you give me one good reason why is should be any kind of issue at all, though? Who is getting hurt? The only people being hurt are the people being denied equality.

[Walter Powers]

Can you give me one good reason why is should be any kind of issue at all, though? Who is getting hurt? The only people being hurt are the people being denied equality.

I'm not saying someone is right and somebody's wrong. I've given a perfectly good compromise option.

[foxtrot.12]

i don't judge people only their actions i still love gay people i just believe it's wrong i wouldn't kill them or something like that

Okay, but may I just say that the bible does not say that homosexuality is wrong.
yes it does i quoted it actually you can look it up...

[Jasperf]

yes it does i quoted it actually you can look it up...

No see your wrong there, the bible only ever says that homosexual sex is wrong.

But then it also says that killing is wrong, but didn't god kill the entire population of the world excepting Noah... Hippocritical.

[Walter Powers]

No see your wrong there, the bible only ever says that homosexual sex is wrong.

But then it also says that killing is wrong, but didn't god kill the entire population of the world excepting Noah... Hippocritical.

You obviously have no understanding of the basic order of events and reason behind them in the Bible. I'm not even Christian and I know that!

[Jasperf]

You obviously have no understanding of the basic order of events and reason behind them in the Bible. I'm not even Christian and I know that!

I don't see how it matters the order that things happend in the bible, I just see that god killed but we aren't aloud to, yet if god tells us to kill, once again it's ok.

And the reasons behind them! I don't think it matters that the whole world was sinning, god still killed them. Killing is killing.

[Origami]

You obviously have no understanding of the basic order of events and reason behind them in the Bible. I'm not even Christian and I know that!

"I'm not even a Christian."

Then don't act like you understand the Bible. Jasper was correct. Homosexual SEX is condemned in the Bible, not the love.

[Walter Powers]

I don't see how it matters the order that things happend in the bible, I just see that god killed but we aren't aloud to, yet if god tells us to kill, once again it's ok.

The Bible recodnizes that in life you have to have priorities. That's all I'm gonna say. I'll let a Christain explain further if they want.

[foxtrot.12]

No see your wrong there, the bible only ever says that homosexual sex is wrong.

But then it also says that killing is wrong, but didn't god kill the entire population of the world excepting Noah... Hippocritical.
i refuse to argue with you but i will counter your points the bible wasn't created for God so yes what he has created he may destroy and if the sex is wrong then what else is there i will quote the old saying God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve there is nowhere in the bible that mentions it is ok to married to another man or another woman. unfortunately the GLBT community has a large voice and reach and can influence people to overlook or erase these facts

God is above Man and always will be if you try to put yourself and your responsibilities or your feelings on a level with Him then you are already in a dark place. I fear for you as Karma is what we call God's work and I have the feeling you'll feel its crunch. I know that sounds radical but I've seen it happen. (No not a lightning strike either I'm not on bath salts)


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Jasperf]

i refuse to argue with you but i will counter your points the bible wasn't created for God so yes what he has created he may destroy and if the sex is wrong then what else is there i will quote the old saying God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve there is nowhere in the bible that mentions it is ok to married to another man or another woman. unfortunately the GLBT community has a large voice and reach and can influence people to overlook or erase these facts

Yes god created a man and a woman, but he never said only Adam and Eve may be in a relationship. Just because god never said something doesn't mean that you can fill in his absence.
Okay so even if we overlook the fact that god killed millions, what about the other times people in the bible have killed.

What is there without homosexual sex? Well a relationship of love, that's what.

[Origami]

God is above Man and always will be if you try to put yourself and your responsibilities or your feelings on a level with Him then you are already in a dark place. I fear for you as Karma is what we call God's work and I have the feeling you'll feel its crunch. I know that sounds radical but I've seen it happen. (No not a lightning strike either I'm not on bath salts)

Let me knock you off your pedestal.

God made Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve? You're right! He did. But he made Eve so that Adam would not walk the garden alone in his absence.

Look at every single reference to homosexuality in the Bible. Every. Single. Time. it references only to lust. Not to love, but to lust. Marriage is not an act of lust, but of love. And lust is too not occur except after marriage.

Also, since you feel the insatiable need to continually judge people, let me leave you with this;

11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

[foxtrot.12]

until Jesus' birth the Israelites were his chosen people so he allowed them to kill others they were like his hand wiping out those that were sinning. After Jesus' birth i direct you to his and Peter's incident when the guards came. As far as your statement of interpretation towards relationships over sex I would call that drawing at straws since being gay involves marriage and sex and a homosexual version of that is condemned.

[Origami]

until Jesus' birth the Israelites were his chosen people so he allowed them to kill others they were like his hand wiping out those that were sinning. After Jesus' birth i direct you to his and Peter's incident when the guards came. As far as your statement of interpretation towards relationships over sex I would call that drawing at straws since being gay involves marriage and sex and a homosexual version of that is condemned.

A relationship does not INVOLVE sex, sex is only an optional attribute of the relationship. Thanks. Bye.

[foxtrot.12]

Let me knock you off your pedestal.

God made Adam and Eve and not Adam and Steve? You're right! He did. But he made Eve so that Adam would not walk the garden alone in his absence.

Look at every single reference to homosexuality in the Bible. Every. Single. Time. it references only to lust. Not to love, but to lust. Marriage is not an act of lust, but of love. And lust is too not occur except after marriage.

Also, since you feel the insatiable need to continually judge people, let me leave you with this;
i feel your anger which is unfortunate because i wasn't looking for that, but you quoted exactly what i meant i don't judge people i judge their actions as they are condemned in the bible feelings aren't condemned actions on those feelings are. i apologize if i am appearing as someone who thinks they are better than others

[Origami]

i feel your anger which is unfortunate because i wasn't looking for that, but you quoted exactly what i meant i don't judge people i judge their actions as they are condemned in the bible feelings aren't condemned actions on those feelings are. i apologize if i am appearing as someone who thinks they are better than others

I'm not angry. I'm a blunt person.

"I'm not judging people, I'm judging their actions." That is an age old excuse for judging people. You are still judging people and let me say, from one Christian to another, that you have no right through God to judge any man that walks this Earth because only God has that authority.

I will say for the one thousandth time on this forum; The Bible only condemns homosexual intercourse, not love. Often we forget the message of the New Testament while we focus so passionately on the anti-gay message in the Old Testament. The Bible is a book of love, compassion, and understanding. It teaches you to love one another and accept each other. It prohibits us from judging our neighbor among other things. If you were truly a Christian you would take no more than a single notion to inform someone of God. Once they are aware, the burden of sin is upon their shoulders alone and choices they make is not between you and them. It is their own choice to make.

From the LGBT perspective, they simply want to be able to love the one their heart yearns for. Christians should not be against this. It does not hurt us unless the law tries to force the church to marry them. Wherein it's the same backwards violation.

[Jasperf]

A relationship does not INVOLVE sex, sex is only an optional attribute of the relationship. Thanks. Bye.

Great we can agree on something :p
A relationship doesn't not NEED marriage nor sex.

[foxtrot.12]

I am done with this so called discussion. No this is not a rage quit this is me leaving before I create worse feelings. I know what I believe and although I may not be the best authority on quoting the Bible, I feel I've made my points. I doubt anyone will be convinced by either sides arguments, but I'll leave you with this: if I am wrong you will have lived your life how you wanted and so will I, but if I am right there is not a lawyer on this Earth that could save you from a very dark eternity. Eat, Think, Speak my friends and live on with God's grace.

[Jasperf]

i feel your anger which is unfortunate because i wasn't looking for that, but you quoted exactly what i meant i don't judge people i judge their actions as they are condemned in the bible feelings aren't condemned actions on those feelings are. i apologize if i am appearing as someone who thinks they are better than others

Well actually no, in the Ten Commandments it specifically states, numbers 1,2,10 feelings of worshiping, idolising and coveting are wrong.

I am done with this so called discussion. No this is not a rage quit this is me leaving before I create worse feelings. I know what I believe and although I may not be the best authority on quoting the Bible, I feel I've made my points. I doubt anyone will be convinced by either sides arguments, but I'll leave you with this: if I am wrong you will have lived your life how you wanted and so will I, but if I am right there is not a lawyer on this Earth that could save you from a very dark eternity. Eat, Think, Speak my friends and live on with God's grace.

Oh and btw god doesn't condem... For remember in your fabulous book it says god loves the world so that he gave his only son for the foregivness of our sins... Our sins have been pre forgiven for us :D


Sorry for the double post

Double Post Merged~ Red Velvet

[Origami]

Oh and btw god doesn't condem... For remember in your fabulous book it says god loves the world so that he gave his only son for the foregivness of our sins... Our sins have been pre forgiven for us :D


Sorry for the double post

False. "For whosoever believeth in him." It's not automatic, brother. God loves everyone, but those who have given in to the ways of the flesh and forsaken the Lord are condemned to damnation for eternity. Might wanna give the Bible a look over before trying to quote it.


Anyway. What's the worst thing that could happen if Gay Marriage is legalized? I mean really, come on. Here, I'll speculate for us all;

http://i.imgur.com/VkMsII0.jpg


THIS IS AS BAD AS IT WILL GET!!!

[Jasperf]

False. "For whosoever believeth in him." It's not automatic, brother. God loves everyone, but those who have given in to the ways of the flesh and forsaken the Lord are condemned to damnation for eternity. Might wanna give the Bible a look over before trying to quote it.


Anyway. What's the worst thing that could happen if Gay Marriage is legalized? I mean really, come on. Here, I'll speculate for us all;

image (http://i.imgur.com/VkMsII0.jpg)


THIS IS AS BAD AS IT WILL GET!!!


Romans 11:32

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.



I may not be a atheist but I sure do question religion.

[Origami]

Romans 11:32

For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.



I may not be a atheist but I sure do question religion.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

7 Remember not the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions: according to thy mercy remember thou me for thy goodness' sake, O LORD.

8 Good and upright [is] the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.

9 The meek will he guide in judgment: and the meek will he teach his way.

God is merciful. But to what extent? Reading Romans 3:22-26...

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

We have ALL sinned and therefore God is merciful on us. Otherwise we'd all be defaulted into Hell when we die. But the Bible mentions countless times that only those who repent their sins and give up their wickedness are saved through the blood of the Lamb and have their names written in The Book of Life.

Have you read the entire Bible? If not, you're likely missing out on the messages and rather just quoting things at random.

Anyway, this thread is going wayyyyy off topic. I'll gladly continue this via PM if you'd life, though.

[Jasperf]

God is merciful. But to what extent? Reading Romans 3:22-26...



We have ALL sinned and therefore God is merciful on us. Otherwise we'd all be defaulted into Hell when we die. But the Bible mentions countless times that only those who repent their sins and give up their wickedness are saved through the blood of the Lamb and have their names written in The Book of Life.

Have you read the entire Bible? If not, you're likely missing out on the messages and rather just quoting things at random.

Anyway, this thread is going wayyyyy off topic. I'll gladly continue this via PM if you'd life, though.

Yes this is WAY off topic now so this will be the last off topic post.
Though you can be saved from your sins by the blood of the lamb, but don't only Catholics and Anglicans drink the blood and eat the bread?

[steve102998]

i dont care if 2 men get married

[Miserabilia]

why exactly would it be wrong for two men to get married

[Jess]

why exactly would it be wrong for two men to get married

(and two women..)

[Miserabilia]

(and two women..)

sorry, that too.

[mUS01]

I'm Ok with that
two man or woman have right marred to each other !!
every one should be happy doesn't matter they are female or male .

[ImCoolBeans]

I'm not saying someone is right and somebody's wrong. I've given a perfectly good compromise option.

Precisely, compromise. I'm asking why does something so unimportant to anybody other than the person getting married need to be a compromise? It really shouldn't.

[Jasperf]

We have ALL sinned and therefore God is merciful on us.

There are the incorrupt bodies...