Is Being Gay a Choice?

[teen.jpg]

A simple question, really. I don't see why or how it is a choice, but I don't know. I want your opinion. (The poll will be confidential just in case you don't want anyone to see your choice.)

Btw if this thread gets out of hand I'm going to request it to get locked. You have been warned.

[Mob Boss]

Teen Sexuality :arrow: ROTW

This is bound to turn into a debate. But as the Op has warned, no name-calling or meaningless personal attacks.

[Origami]

I don't think it is a choice for most.

But I do believe sexuality either way can be a choice. The human mind and body are capable of extraordinary things. So I do believe someone, who is determined enough, could choose their sexuality and then mentally make it so.

But I will choose no, as for most I don't believe it is.

[jayh]

A simple question, really. I don't see why or how it is a choice, but I don't know.

There should be 3 choices
every gay person chooses to be gay
no gay person chooses to be gay
some gay people choose to be gay

In which case the last one would be correct

[Brazilianboy]

I think it is genetic. Some people may go through a time of experimentation, but it is not being a gay

[teen.jpg]

There should be 3 choices
every gay person chooses to be gay
no gay person chooses to be gay
some gay people choose to be gay

In which case the last one would be correct

How do you choose to be gay? O.o

[Lost in the Echo]

Nobody chooses their sexuality, it's genetic.

[jayh]

Some people may go through a time of experimentation, but it is not being a gay

But if they experimented and found they liked it they would then be gay. If they experimented and didn't like it they would go back to being straight.

It is a choice.

How do you choose to be gay? O.o

Same way as you choose to be fat/thin rich/poor date fat girls/skinny girls etc.

From your signature you obviously agree with this because you haven't made your mind up which you prefer yet :)


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Origami]

But if they experimented and found they liked it they would then be gay. If they experimented and didn't like it they would go back to being straight.

It is a choice.

Same way as you choose to be fat/thin rich/poor date fat girls/skinny girls etc.

From your signature you obviously agree with this because you haven't made your mind up which you prefer yet :)

Let me go ahead and stop you.

Teens experimenting is not "choosing" what they want. It's discovering what they want. There is a difference.

And you don't choose to be fat/thin rich/poor, a lot of this is based on uncontrollable outside factors. Your argument sucks.

And "Bi" is not the same as "Questioning." Mind you. So because his sig says he's bi does not mean he doesn't know what he likes, it means he likes both.

[Apollo.]

Same way as you choose to be fat/thin rich/poor date fat girls/skinny girls etc.

From your signature you obviously agree with this because you haven't made your mind up which you prefer yet :)

Hahaha, not sure if your serious or your trolling, that is the most hilarious post I've ever seen!

[teen.jpg]

Same way as you choose to be fat/thin rich/poor date fat girls/skinny girls etc.

Being over/underweight is NOT a choice. Many overweight people aim to lose weight, and underweight (like me) want to gain weight.

And choosing who you date based on looks is pretty shallow.

From your signature you obviously agree with this because you haven't made your mind up which you prefer yet :)

You don't really know what bisexual means, do you?

Let me go ahead and stop you.

Teens experimenting is not "choosing" what they want. It's discovering what they want. There is a difference.

And you don't choose to be fat/thin rich/poor, a lot of this is based on uncontrollable outside factors. Your argument sucks.

And "Bi" is not the same as "Questioning." Mind you. So because his sig says he's bi does not mean he doesn't know what he likes, it means he likes both.

:clap:


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[jayh]

You don't really know what bisexual means, do you?

I assumed it meant you find guys and girls equally attractive. Is that not correct?

[Origami]

I assumed it meant you find guys and girls equally attractive. Is that not correct?

That's exactly what it means. But you said it means he doesn't know which he likes which is not so. He likes both. Not knowing is called "Questioning" or in some cases even "curious."

Heterosexuality - You like the opposite sex. Period.
Bisexuality - You like males and females. Period.
Homosexuality - You like the same sex. Period.
Questioning - You don't know which of the three categories you fall into.

[Cygnus]

I do not see why it wouldn't be a choice, your parents were straight so there should not be a gene that says "you're gay". People choose who they like.

[teen.jpg]

I do not see why it wouldn't be a choice, your parents were straight so there should not be a gene that says "you're gay". People choose who they like.

Saying that, I'm guessing you're straight yourself. I'll try to explain it so that you'd understand.

Two people have brown eyes, and when they have a baby, it has blue eyes. How would that be, since both parents don't have blue eyes? It must've been a conscious choice by the baby then!

No, its just a rare chance. Now replace eye color with sexuality, and that's how you know its not a choice.

I assumed it meant you find guys and girls equally attractive. Is that not correct?

It doesn't have to be equal, just that you're capable of liking both a guy or a girl.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[jayh]

Teens experimenting is not "choosing" what they want. It's discovering what they want. There is a difference.

So what would be the point of a guy sleeping with guys and girls to "discover" what he likes if it's already decided by birth he likes guys?

[Origami]

Saying that, I'm guessing you're straight yourself. I'll try to explain it so that you'd understand.

Two people have brown eyes, and when they have a baby, it has blue eyes. How would that be, since both parents don't have blue eyes? It must've been a conscious choice by the baby then!

No, its just a rare chance. Now replace eye color with sexuality, and that's how you know its not a choice.

False. It is due to recessive genes that a baby can have a hair color or eye color not similar to either parents.
If I recall, there was a study saying that homosexuality isn't genetic. Lets face it, if you can't have babies, you can't pass on this gene. But instead, it suggested that homosexuality is decided in the womb due to "markers" being switched. Again, however, this says homosexuality isn't a choice.

So what would be the point of a guy sleeping with guys and girls to "discover" what he likes if it's already decided by birth he likes guys?

You're not necessarily aware of your preference. You'll feel an attraction to the opposite sex but may be unsure if it's natural or a random feeling caused by puberty. Exploring these urges will either leave you feeling awkward (you're probably not into that) or satisfied (well, you know what you like). This is where"questioning" and "curious" come into play.

[Harry Smith]

I do not see why it wouldn't be a choice, your parents were straight so there should not be a gene that says "you're gay". People choose who they like.

Did you pick to be straight then?


So what would be the point of a guy sleeping with guys and girls to "discover" what he likes if it's already decided by birth he likes guys?

You can decide by birth, your sexuality only really translates through puberty, that's when it really develops, many gay guys sleep with women simply to fool them-self and to try and see if they can. Hence why many men in their 40's come out as married

[Cygnus]

Did you pick to be straight then?


No, I was raised that way so I am straight. I see your point, but its because I was raised that way, not because of my genetics.

[britishboy]

I ppersonally believe it mostly is from birth however you do get them wake up gay stories so I believe you can unconsciously chose to be gay

[Harry Smith]

No, I was raised that way so I am straight. I see your point, but its because I was raised that way, not because of my genetics.

I wasn't raised gay... By your theory then all siblings should be either gay or straight

[teen.jpg]

No, I was raised that way so I am straight. I see your point, but its because I was raised that way, not because of my genetics.

How are you raised straight? And how are you raised gay?

[jayh]

You can decide by birth, your sexuality only really translates through puberty, that's when it really develops, many gay guys sleep with women simply to fool them-self and to try and see if they can. Hence why many men in their 40's come out as married

This is what I don't get. Gays always demand "rights" because they say they were born that way - the whole gay rights argument is based on people being born gay with no say in the matter. Agreed?

I would have more respect for gays if they admitted it was a choice

[britishboy]

This is what I don't get. Gays always demand "rights" because they say they were born that way - the whole gay rights argument is based on people being born gay with no say in the matter. Agreed?

I would have more respect for gays if they admitted it was a choice

do you think anyone would chose to be gay? and you would think the millions of gay people might have noticed that they chose to be gay? why would a straight guy chose to be gay?

[Origami]

This is what I don't get. Gays always demand "rights" because they say they were born that way - the whole gay rights argument is based on people being born gay with no say in the matter. Agreed?

I would have more respect for gays if they admitted it was a choice

Because science suggests that it is decided in the womb.


Again, I'll say it can be a choice, but it typically isn't.

[teen.jpg]

This is what I don't get. Gays always demand "rights" because they say they were born that way - the whole gay rights argument is based on people being born gay with no say in the matter. Agreed?

I would have more respect for gays if they admitted it was a choice

Maybe it actually isnt a choice. Have you ever thought of that?

And anyone who thinks they "chose" to be gay was probably already gay in the first place and didn't know it.

[deadpie]

Don't know many people that would say, "Oh I'd love to be gay! I'd have less rights, more people would hate me and my parents would throw me out of the house! Fuck yeah, MEN!"

I'd be straight if I could but it's just not going to happen. I can't force a boner when looking at a girl. Not going to happen. I cannot change my sexuality period.

Also a lot of you people sound like you're eating up the nonsense of conservative news and parents or immature teens your age that babble stupid shit. No, you don't wake up gay one day. I've not met a single person that has chosen to be gay.

Also to the guy who posted "I would have more respect for gays if they admitted it was a choice"

Do you know how stupid and offensive that comment is? As if you know we're faking it? Like kids blow their fucking brains out over being bullied for their sexuality because they want to be? That sounds so much fun! WOOOO!!! 110 percent bet you're straight.

[jayh]

Because science suggests that it is decided in the womb.

That is absolutely ridiculous. The obvious point is science doesn't suggest things they prove things, cause and effect action/reaction etc - that's why it's called science rather than philosophy :)

If science suggested it was decided in the womb science would also suggest WHY it was decided in the womb. Do you know how/why a child could be born gay to straight parents?

[Origami]

That is absolutely ridiculous. The obvious point is science doesn't suggest things they prove things, cause and effect action/reaction etc - that's why it's called science rather than philosophy :)

If science suggested it was decided in the womb science would also suggest WHY it was decided in the womb. Do you know how/why a child could be born gay to straight parents?

http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/668167

[World Eater]

Also to the guy who posted "I would have more respect for gays if they admitted it was a choice"

Do you know how stupid and offensive that comment is? As if you know we're faking it? Like kids blow their fucking brains out over being bullied for their sexuality because they want to be? That sounds so much fun! WOOOO!!! 110 percent bet you're straight.

There it is! Thank you! :clap:

[jayh]

Maybe it actually isnt a choice. Have you ever thought of that?

Of course. If it isn't a choice why do you need to sleep with guys and girls to find out something that was already decided at birth for you?

[deadpie]

Of course. If it isn't a choice why do you need to sleep with guys and girls to find out something that was already decided at birth for you?

Some people experiment before puberty due to curiosity of their body and others. It's not really about sleeping with someone or sex. I think I read 1/3 men have done this and 1/6 women have. Other than that... some people closet themselves so far as to push themselves in relationships they can't commit to and put themselves in sexual situations that they cannot even go through with because of their true sexuality. That's what happens when you're a super closeted guy. Happens when you grow up in front of a lot of homophobia and fear.

[Horizon]

As a gay male I can tell that no, we did not choose it.

And too all the people looking for evidence that we didn't choose:
Where is the evidence we chose to choose? So far you only chose to talk, instead of providing evidence.

[jayh]

http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/668167

Ok but I'm not very bright so i don't understand this
"Our model predicts that homosexuality is part of a wider phenomenon in which recently evolved androgen-influenced traits commonly display gonad-trait discordances at substantial frequency, and that the molecular feature underlying most homosexuality is not DNA polymorphism(s), but epi-marks that evolved to canalize sexual dimorphic development that sometimes carryover across generations and contribute to gonad-trait discordances in opposite-sex descendants."

Can you explain what it means in simple terms?

[Origami]

Ok but I'm not very bright so i don't understand this
"Our model predicts that homosexuality is part of a wider phenomenon in which recently evolved androgen-influenced traits commonly display gonad-trait discordances at substantial frequency, and that the molecular feature underlying most homosexuality is not DNA polymorphism(s), but epi-marks that evolved to canalize sexual dimorphic development that sometimes carryover across generations and contribute to gonad-trait discordances in opposite-sex descendants."

Can you explain what it means in simple terms?

It says that homosexuality is not caused by DNA (killing every "gay is genetic" argument) and instead suggests that it is caused by "Epi-marks." Epi-marks are like on-off switches that help protect a female baby during excessive rises in testosterone and likewise protect a male baby from being feminized in the womb. The essential on-off patterns of epi-marks is instead what determines and individuals sexuality.

[jayh]

It says that homosexuality is not caused by DNA (killing every "gay is genetic" argument) and instead suggests that it is caused by "Epi-marks." Epi-marks are like on-off switches that help protect a female baby during excessive rises in testosterone and likewise protect a male baby from being feminized in the womb. The essential on-off patterns of epi-marks is instead what determines and individuals sexuality.

So is it pure chance if a baby is born gay?

[Walter Powers]

I'm not sure on this one, but I'm leaning one way; I think being gay is a choice. I'm not an expert on the scientific standpoint, but if your gentically either gay or straight, why would anybody be bisexual?

[saea97]

I do not see why it wouldn't be a choice, your parents were straight so there should not be a gene that says "you're gay". People choose who they like.

Both my parents have brown eyes, and yet I have blue eyes. Did you never learn about Mendel's peas? Recessive genes.

Of course, we could both be arguing pointlessly here; Origami's linked article seems pretty plausible in suggesting a different cause than genetics.

[teen.jpg]

Of course. If it isn't a choice why do you need to sleep with guys and girls to find out something that was already decided at birth for you?

Because you wouldn't know it. Society sets up heterosexuality as the norm, so that's what you assume you are until you find out otherwise.

And who said anything about sleeping with guys and girls?

[Origami]

So is it pure chance if a baby is born gay?

Essentially. It's up to how the epi-marks are flipped in the womb which decide a child's sexual orientation.

[teen.jpg]

I don't think we need to find a "cause" because its not a disease. If people thought there was a cause, then they would try to prevent it.

[Origami]

I don't think we need to find a "cause" because its not a disease. If people thought there was a cause, then they would try to prevent it.

Please refer to my link. If there isn't a "cause" to sexuality then it is in fact a choice. Because something causes sexuality differences, it is not a choice. Don't hurt your own argument.

[teen.jpg]

Please refer to my link. If there isn't a "cause" to sexuality then it is in fact a choice. Because something causes sexuality differences, it is not a choice. Don't hurt your own argument.

I didn't say there isnt a cause, but finding that out would lead to people thinking there's a "solution".

[jayh]

Essentially. It's up to how the epi-marks are flipped in the womb which decide a child's sexual orientation.

OK so given
1/ it's pure chance that a person's born gay
2/ all the crap gay's have to deal with in terms of prejudice etc
we should really be treating gays in the same way as people who are born disabled?

[Emerald Dream]

OK so given
1/ it's pure chance that a person's born gay
2/ all the crap gay's have to deal with in terms of prejudice etc
we should really be treating gays in the same way as people who are born disabled?

This has nothing to do with disabled people, and I can not believe you are making this analogy.

Please stay on topic.

[Jess]

It's not a choice. Do straight people choose to be straight? no.

[teen.jpg]

OK so given
1/ it's pure chance that a person's born gay
2/ all the crap gay's have to deal with in terms of prejudice etc
we should really be treating gays in the same way as people who are born disabled?

:eek: Umm ... where did you get THAT idea?

Being gay doesn't affect anybody's life, except for the fact that instead of liking opposite sex people you like same sex people.

Its not anymore complicated then that.

[Origami]

I didn't say there isnt a cause, but finding that out would lead to people thinking there's a "solution".

Well, my link points out a cause. Guess it's time to make a gay vaccination? Oh, wait, nope. They're not trying to cure it. The look for a cause because the heterosexual community wants to know why someone is gay. And some of the LGBT community want to know why it happens themselves. Not everyone is content with "I was born this way."

OK so given
1/ it's pure chance that a person's born gay
2/ all the crap gay's have to deal with in terms of prejudice etc
we should really be treating gays in the same way as people who are born disabled?

No. Sexuality isn't a disability. The prejudices that the LGBT community face are spawned from a lack of acceptance and open mindedness in the community at large. Being bullied and being unable to hear are very different things.

[jayh]

This has nothing to do with disabled people, and I can not believe you are making this analogy.

Please stay on topic.

It's totally on topic.

If gays are born that way and society treats them harshly for something they can't control surely they should be treated as disabled.

What's the difference between being born gay and (say) being born with one leg?

Being gay doesn't affect anybody's life

Have you not heard of anti-gay prejudice? I'd think being gay would affect somebody's life.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Emerald Dream]

It's totally on topic.

If gays are born that way and society treats them harshly for something they can't control surely they should be treated as disabled.

What's the difference between being born gay and (say) being born with one leg?

No, it's not. For the reasons that Origami posted above.

If you continue with this, I will lock it.

Please do not equate disabled people with sexuality, and treatment. This is completely off-base, and ridiculous.

[saea97]

What's the difference between being born gay and (say) being born with one leg?

The difference is that one person likes people of the same gender and the other person is missing a leg. Neither of them chose it, but it's patently obvious that only the person who is missing the limb is disabled. Are you just trying to be abrasive?

[teen.jpg]

Well, my link points out a cause. Guess it's time to make a gay vaccination? Oh, wait, nope. They're not trying to cure it. The look for a cause because the heterosexual community wants to know why someone is gay. And some of the LGBT community want to know why it happens themselves. Not everyone is content with "I was born this way."

And what is the point really? So you can go around and present it as a trivia fact? I don't see the need, to be honest.

And don't underestimate the minds of people, if you thought conversion therapy was bad, they might just try conversion medication and drugs. That's really what I'm scared homophobes will stoop too.

And to jayh, gay people dont need special treatment. The more regular they get treated the better. Why does my sexuality make you think I want special treatment? Not even all disabled people need special treatment either.

Have you not heard of anti-gay prejudice? I'd think being gay would affect somebody's life.

That's not what I meant. Being gay doesn't mean you need help from others.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[jayh]

No, it's not. For the reasons that Origami posted above.

Origami posted some science "proving" that being born gay is basically chance - are you saying that being born disabled in some way is not down to chance?

[Emerald Dream]

Origami posted some science "proving" that being born gay is basically chance - are you saying that being born disabled in some way is not down to chance?


And to jayh, gay people dont need special treatment. The more regular they get treated the better. Why does my sexuality make you think I want special treatment? Not even all disabled people need special treatment either.


The difference is that one person likes people of the same gender and the other person is missing a leg. Neither of them chose it, but it's patently obvious that only the person who is missing the limb is disabled. Are you just trying to be abrasive?


No. Sexuality isn't a disability. The prejudices that the LGBT community face are spawned from a lack of acceptance and open mindedness in the community at large. Being bullied and being unable to hear are very different things.

Maybe you should read a little bit more, and try staying on topic. :)

That's my point.

[Origami]

It's totally on topic.

If gays are born that way and society treats them harshly for something they can't control surely they should be treated as disabled.

What's the difference between being born gay and (say) being born with one leg?

Have you not heard of anti-gay prejudice? I'd think being gay would affect somebody's life.


Origami posted some science "proving" that being born gay is basically chance - are you saying that being born disabled in some way is not down to chance?

Gay people get bullied and lack certain basic rights. That's it.

Someone missing a leg can't climb stairs effectively, can't participate in sports without the use of extra equipment, they aren't as mobile as most of us. They are so very different that your comparing the two has to be the dumbest attempt to pull a counter-argument out of your ass that I've ever seen.

Yes, being gay affects somebody's life: through bullying. This is again different than a disability.

And no, no one is saying that being born disabled isn't down to chance. You're literally trying to pull shit out of thin air at this point.


And what is the point really? So you can go around and present it as a trivia fact? I don't see the need, to be honest.

And don't underestimate the minds of people, if you thought conversion therapy was bad, they might just try conversion medication and drugs. That's really what I'm scared homophobes will stoop too.

So if someone is gay and weren't content with being told "you were born that way" you don't think they are entitled to have the real answer as to why? The point is to help them understand. If anything, if you prove homosexuality isn't a choice then you kill of some homophobia.

[jayh]

Being gay doesn't mean you need help from others.

Of course it does. Anyone who's gay would need the ~90% of people who are not gay to give them the rights they think they're entitled to and teat them with respect/understanding etc.

How do you think gay marriage would ever happen without the help of people who are not gay?

[Origami]

Of course it does. Anyone who's gay would need the ~90% of people who are not gay to give them the rights they think they're entitled to and teat them with respect/understanding etc.

How do you think gay marriage would ever happen without the help of people who are not gay?

Let me rephrase what Myles said. The LGBT community shouldn't need help. It's due to oppression and homophobia that they do. It's a civil rights movement.

[Emerald Dream]

The original point of this thread was "Is being gay a choice?"

This thread is now locked for continuing to stray off-topic, and obviously not going back to what it was. Should have listened, sorry. :locked: