What is it good for? Absolutly nothing.

[tovaris]

NATO it does nothing but harm. Its a war machine.

Go...

[Stronger]

You're only saying this, because you want nothing to do with Western ways. It does good, by trying to maintain peace.

[TheBigUnit]

You're only saying this, because you want nothing to do with Western ways. It does good, by trying to maintain peace.

this ^^^ 'nough said

[britishboy]

NATO it does nothing but harm. Its a war machine.

Go...

it does great and trys extremely hard to create world peace, you just have blind hate towards the west and cant see all the good.

www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_92140.htm

www.nato.int/nato-welcome/index.html

read everything on the second link page, it explains it all

[StoppingTime]

NATO it does nothing but harm. Its a war machine.

Go...

As others said, you created this thread in order to spark useless, no-source arguments simply because you claim to be a communist who hates the West.
Now if you have any actual reasons and sources as to why you believe this, do post. Otherwise you'll find nobody is going to have a fighting match with you.

[General Stark]

War! huh!

[tovaris]

As others said, you created this thread in order to spark useless, no-source arguments simply because you claim to be a communist who hates the West.
Now if you have any actual reasons and sources as to why you believe this, do post. Otherwise you'll find nobody is going to have a fighting match with you.

I created this thread to finaly see some arguments towards suporting a war organisation; I merly wish to see people sensely debate on the subject, that is Why i started it with a contrevertian statement to spark thaughts a bit and make it flow faster.
Many western people are of similar opinions: http://goo.gl/l3etX, (http://goo.gl/l3etX); http://goo.gl/Sr3px,

[Stronk Serb]

Well when talking about peace bringing, the situation on Kosovo did not change. Violence still occurs, but Albanian extremists are doing it and are unpunished, about the Serb ones, yeah they were arrested and are trialed in Hague. Serbs are second-class citizens on Kosovo. Albanian extremists are selling organs from imprisoned Serbs on the black market, our government cannot do anything since Kosovo is under control of it's so-called government and the UN, NATO troops are there maintaining "order". Many decade old crimes against Serbs are not unpunished. A investigation hasn't even been opened. Is it the same what NATO does in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[britishboy]

I created this thread to finaly see some arguments towards suporting a war organisation; I merly wish to see people sensely debate on the subject, that is Why i started it with a contrevertian statement to spark thaughts a bit and make it flow faster.
Many western people are of similar opinions: http://goo.gl/l3etX, (http://goo.gl/l3etX); http://goo.gl/Sr3px,

they have both been written by American conspirators and anyone can write something on the net read this and reply if you have an argument, if you dont ill know you give in as your argument is stupid and floored, and you still have given no sources apart from idiots on the internet
this is a thing they have done recently
www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_92140.htm
and this is why they exist etc
www.nato.int/nato-welcome/index.html

Well when talking about peace bringing, the situation on Kosovo did not change. Violence still occurs, but Albanian extremists are doing it and are unpunished, about the Serb ones, yeah they were arrested and are trialed in Hague. Serbs are second-class citizens on Kosovo. Albanian extremists are selling organs from imprisoned Serbs on the black market, our government cannot do anything since Kosovo is under control of it's so-called government and the UN, NATO troops are there maintaining "order". Many decade old crimes against Serbs are not unpunished. A investigation hasn't even been opened. Is it the same what NATO does in Iraq and Afghanistan?

they are not there because theyre not wanted and thats a police matter not an international armys business, what do you expect them to do, wipe your ass when you hate them?

[Stronk Serb]

they have both been written by American conspirators and anyone can write something on the net read this and reply if you have an argument, if you dont ill know you give in as your argument is stupid and floored, and you still have given no sources apart from idiots on the internet
this is a thing they have done recently
www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_92140.htm
and this is why they exist etc
www.nato.int/nato-welcome/index.html



they are not there because theyre not wanted and thats a police matter not an international armys business, what do you expect them to do, wipe your ass when you hate them?

Haha, I can make a website saying I am the Messiah while I am not.

Serbs there are more afraid from the Albanians. The do not give a shit about NATO forces since they do nothing. They are more focused on staying alive then hating NATO. NATO is also helping to police Iraq and Afghanistan, KFOR (composed of NATO troops) is the main police force on Kosovo, yet they prolong the violence. And why put a terrorist warlord like Thaci to be head of state, when you can make a even, multi-ethnical government with two leaders for each ethnicity? The same thing has been done in Bosnia, but the corruption and infrastructure problems are making it fail.

[britishboy]

Haha, I can make a website saying I am the Messiah while I am not.

Serbs there are more afraid from the Albanians. The do not give a shit about NATO forces since they do nothing. They are more focused on staying alive then hating NATO. NATO is also helping to police Iraq and Afghanistan, KFOR (composed of NATO troops) is the main police force on Kosovo, yet they prolong the violence. And why put a terrorist warlord like Thaci to be head of state, when you can make a even, multi-ethnical government with two leaders for each ethnicity? The same thing has been done in Bosnia, but the corruption and infrastructure problems are making it fail.

several reasons mainly the fact the public wont accept another head of state, also Serbia is not at war and dont threaten world peace, and the Albanians are a matter for the police force, italy and mexico has many mafias but its inappropriate for nato to sort them out

[Southside]

NATO=War Machine
I cant believe people say NATO is a "peacekeeping force", going in and bombing the shit out of peoples countries is nowhere near peacekeeping. The only thing close to a peacekeeping force this world has is the UN, and they dont even do their job right most of the time.

Im not a communist, nor Anti-Western, it's just somethings that are just about war and killing which I do not support.

[Stronk Serb]

several reasons mainly the fact the public wont accept another head of state, also Serbia is not at war and dont threaten world peace, and the Albanians are a matter for the police force, italy and mexico has many mafias but its inappropriate for nato to sort them out

So you put a genocidal terrorist warlord as a head of state? A great way to keep peace. Peace through extermination.

[britishboy]

So you put a genocidal terrorist warlord as a head of state? A great way to keep peace. Peace through extermination.

your from Serbia, you wipe out races and deny a country its independence (and thats why your not allowed in the eu) we let you guys run your own state and your doing an ok job, how would you like it if you had a head of state who was Albanian?

[Harry Smith]

NATO is designed to engage in war, I will agree with that. It's designed to protect Europe from communism in the cold war. But that doesn't mean it's evil.

NATO has never broken international law or breached the peace which means that no it isn't a war machine. Firstly due to the nature of NATO it would be a very bad one, no one country controls it, meaning any gains that NATO make couldn't be kept by one country. NATO acts within international law and it helps uphold the freedom of many western states.

[Southside]

NATO is designed to engage in war, I will agree with that. It's designed to protect Europe from communism in the cold war. But that doesn't mean it's evil.

NATO has never broken international law or breached the peace which means that no it isn't a war machine. Firstly due to the nature of NATO it would be a very bad one, no one country controls it, meaning any gains that NATO make couldn't be kept by one country. NATO acts within international law and it helps uphold the freedom of many western states.

Upholds the freedom of many western states? How? I dont see the point of NATO since the collaspe of the Warsaw Pact. When has "Western Freedom" been threatened since the collaspe of the Communist Bloc? Libya wasnt a threat, nor was Serbia or Bosnia. NATO does not act within international laws, like bombing TV stations and civilian infrastracture. NATO has lost its legitmacy in my eyes since the USSR/Warsaw Pact collasped...Europe has no threats.

[britishboy]

Upholds the freedom of many western states? How? I dont see the point of NATO since the collaspe of the Warsaw Pact. When has "Western Freedom" been threatened since the collaspe of the Communist Bloc? Libya wasnt a threat, nor was Serbia or Bosnia. NATO does not act within international laws, like bombing TV stations and civilian infrastracture. NATO has lost its legitmacy in my eyes since the USSR/Warsaw Pact collasped...Europe has no threats.

the only time article 5 was involved was in 9/11 and its a great alliance protecting eachothers securities

[Southside]

the only time article 5 was involved was in 9/11 and its a great alliance protecting eachothers securities

So 9/11 was a threat to..Oh lets say..Poland? Article 5 is warhawking.

[tovaris]

they have both been written by American conspirators and anyone can write something on the net read this and reply if you have an argument, if you dont ill know you give in as your argument is stupid and floored, and you still have given no sources apart from idiots on the internet
this is a thing they have done recently
www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/topics_92140.htm
and this is why they exist etc
www.nato.int/nato-welcome/index.html



they are not there because theyre not wanted and thats a police matter not an international armys business, what do you expect them to do, wipe your ass when you hate them?

This thread was originaly created for other people to debate.

But if you ensest.
you have just stated sources that contridict your argument. these links are all about how nato makes war all cross the world. You might vant to quote some mor reliable sources than NATO propaganda.

[Harry Smith]

Upholds the freedom of many western states? How? I dont see the point of NATO since the collaspe of the Warsaw Pact. When has "Western Freedom" been threatened since the collaspe of the Communist Bloc? Libya wasnt a threat, nor was Serbia or Bosnia. NATO does not act within international laws, like bombing TV stations and civilian infrastracture. NATO has lost its legitmacy in my eyes since the USSR/Warsaw Pact collasped...Europe has no threats.

Try telling that to the 56 people killed in the July 7th attacks, we're under threat from terrorists who wish to oppress the us and our way of life. Our freedom is at threat from people who will not stop at nothing.

I don't understand how you can A) Be a democrat B) Be an American C) Be a human and yet still defend Colonel Gaddafi. Do you enjoy having human rights?

[TheBigUnit]

threat, nor was Serbia or Bosnia

serbia was no threat to america, but can u really let genocide happen???

[britishboy]

This thread was originaly created for other people to debate.

But if you ensest.
you have just stated sources that contridict your argument. these links are all about how nato makes war all cross the world. You might vant to quote some mor reliable sources than NATO propaganda.

theyre facts, and it was designed to make the west invincible and I think its great, gives us security

[tovaris]

theyre facts, and it was designed to make the west invincible and I think its great, gives us security

securety from what?
And how can a war machine make pece?

[britishboy]

So 9/11 was a threat to..Oh lets say..Poland? Article 5 is warhawking.

thats the point, you could easily invade a small country such as Poland but then have britian, france, germany and america to deal with, I honestly dont see why you think like this

securety from what?
And how can a war machine make pece?

from goldfish, what the fuck do you think, AN INVASION and nato trys to make peace through talks, but sometimes war is unavoidable and thats why nato must be powerful

[Stronk Serb]

your from Serbia, you wipe out races and deny a country its independence (and thats why your not allowed in the eu) we let you guys run your own state and your doing an ok job, how would you like it if you had a head of state who was Albanian?


We do not wipe out races. How can you make such stupid generalizations. Our genocidal leaders are behind bars. Albanian terrorists will probably be if KFOR does it's job.The thing is, both Serbs and Albanians are on Kosovo, and the Serbs are making more than 40% of the population. Yet you could've put an Albanian with a cleaner consience. Thaci has many Serbian lives on his consience. Women, children, elderly, prisoners of war... Maybe give Serbian dominant counties autonomy? No, you chose the worst solution. Install a genocidal warlord and let him butcher innocents with impunity and in return you can have gold, lead, zink, copper and silver reserves under Kosovo. There are lots of those resources on Kosovo.

[britishboy]

We do not wipe out races. How can you make such stupid generalizations. Our genocidal leaders are behind bars. Albanian terrorists will probably be if KFOR does it's job.The thing is, both Serbs and Albanians are on Kosovo, and the Serbs are making more than 40% of the population. Yet you could've put an Albanian with a cleaner consience. Thaci has many Serbian lives on his consience. Women, children, elderly, prisoners of war... Maybe give Serbian dominant counties autonomy? No, you chose the worst solution. Install a genocidal warlord and let him butcher innocents with impunity and in return you can have gold, lead, zink, copper and silver reserves under Kosovo. There are lots of those resources on Kosovo.

nato is not run by 1 country it is run by all members, and the security cancel, they decided what they done would be best, and they were the ones to put the leaders behind bars...

[Stronk Serb]

nato is not run by 1 country it is run by all members, and the security cancel, they decided what they done would be best, and they were the ones to put the leaders behind bars...

Nope. Milosevic was arrested by our police and transferred to Hague. Ratko Mladic also, Radovan Karadzic and Hadzic also. Seselj surrendered to our police and got transferred. You caught nobody.

serbia was no threat to america, but can u really let genocide happen???


The situation on Kosovo:
'90s, civil unrest started. During the end Albanians started an uprising. Army and police went to end the revolt. Genocides started by the Albanians. Our smartass extremists also stsrted genocides. NATO swooped in and bombed us. Violence against Serbs continued, and is to this day and NATO security forces are not doing their job.


-please do not double post. -Emerald Dream

[tovaris]

your from Serbia, you wipe out races and deny a country its independence (and thats why your not allowed in the eu) we let you guys run your own state and your doing an ok job, how would you like it if you had a head of state who was Albanian?

Kosovo never had and has no right to be a country due to historical resons.
A serbian head of state can't be albanian because in order to become the president he has to have serbial nationalety.

thats the point, you could easily invade a small country such as Poland but then have britian, france, germany and america to deal with, I honestly dont see why you think like this

from goldfish, what the fuck do you think, AN INVASION and nato trys to make peace through talks, but sometimes war is unavoidable and thats why nato must be powerful

invaison of whoi buney rabits or is it martiens? Aha dropping bombs, poisoning wather, ading genocide, aproving of USA&Israel... Thats talking? And peceloving?

nato is not run by 1 country it is run by all members, and the security cancel, they decided what they done would be best, and they were the ones to put the leaders behind bars...

Smal countries only have to pay NATO ether money or canonfuter. They dont run it in any way.
NATO put the former Yugoslav nationalistic mental patients behind bars? I dont think so...

serbia was no threat to america, but can u really let genocide happen???

No genocide shouldn't have been aloved to be comitted by the albanians over serbians but it was even aded by natos onesided acts

[Southside]

Try telling that to the 56 people killed in the July 7th attacks, we're under threat from terrorists who wish to oppress the us and our way of life. Our freedom is at threat from people who will not stop at nothing.

I don't understand how you can A) Be a democrat B) Be an American C) Be a human and yet still defend Colonel Gaddafi. Do you enjoy having human rights?

Im not defending Ghaddafi, I'm defending the Libyan People who were victim of the NATO bombings. Has Switzerland even been attacked by terrorist? Has Finland ever been attacked by terrorist? NO! Because they keep to themselves and dont go around bombing countries like their the world police. How was Libya oppressing our freedom? How was Serbia oppressing our freedom? Answer this, do you think 9/11 would have happened if the US just stuck to itself? Not going to fuck with Iraq in the 90's, or supporting to Zionist state of Israel. The truth is, those people only attack countries who go around acting like their the world police. All attacks on civilians are wrong, dont get me wrong, no atrocity committed by Al-Qaeda or any other terrorist group are equal to the atrocities we've(NATO,US,UK,) have committed in the last 10-20 years. Im tired of this whole idea that 9/11 and 7/7 were done because there "jealous of our freedom" or all that BS, they dont like us because of how we've been fucking over the Middle-East all these years. I'm not Anti-West, I just dont like wars, the last LEGITIMATE war US,UK were involved in was the Gulf War and maybe Afghanistan(We shouldnt even be there for this long). Until the day communism comes back to Europe, I will see no point in NATO.

[superstarB]

You're only saying this, because you want nothing to do with Western ways. It does good, by trying to maintain peace.

Amen

[Ace of Spades]

Part of me thinks that the OP only started this thread for one purpose: to rail on NATO and the Western world.

[tovaris]

Part of me thinks that the OP only started this thread for one purpose: to rail on NATO and the Western world.

No this thread was started, as stated previously, to finally see some good arguments for and againced NATO; but apparently...

[Harry Smith]

No this thread was started, as stated previously, to finally see some good arguments for and againced NATO; but apparently...

but apparently your blinded by your hate, we all have and all could present a perfectly sound argument but if you refuse to open your mind and listen then it's pointless

[tovaris]

but apparently your blinded by your hate, we all have and all could present a perfectly sound argument but if you refuse to open your mind and listen then it's pointless

As I wrote previously I had no intention of getting involved in this you people forced my hand. Unfortunately I'm not blinded by hate, my beliefs are based on experience and historical fact.

[Harry Smith]

Im not defending Ghaddafi, I'm defending the Libyan People who were victim of the NATO bombings. Has Switzerland even been attacked by terrorist? Has Finland ever been attacked by terrorist? NO! Because they keep to themselves and dont go around bombing countries like their the world police. How was Libya oppressing our freedom? How was Serbia oppressing our freedom? Answer this, do you think 9/11 would have happened if the US just stuck to itself? Not going to fuck with Iraq in the 90's, or supporting to Zionist state of Israel. The truth is, those people only attack countries who go around acting like their the world police. All attacks on civilians are wrong, dont get me wrong, no atrocity committed by Al-Qaeda or any other terrorist group are equal to the atrocities we've(NATO,US,UK,) have committed in the last 10-20 years. Im tired of this whole idea that 9/11 and 7/7 were done because there "jealous of our freedom" or all that BS, they dont like us because of how we've been fucking over the Middle-East all these years. I'm not Anti-West, I just dont like wars, the last LEGITIMATE war US,UK were involved in was the Gulf War and maybe Afghanistan(We shouldnt even be there for this long). Until the day communism comes back to Europe, I will see no point in NATO.

You say the gulf war was legitimate, yet earlier in your point you critized us for going in.

There's a place called dunblane in scotland, a plane was blown up there killing over 200 people. The person who did it was part of Gaddafi's secret service, he sold arms to the IRA who were killing British soldiers and blowing up shops.

1) By calling Israel Zionist it makes you appear very bias, and such shows your blind hatred towards them. Try and detach yourself from your point.

2)I know both maticek and mike will disagree with me, but we had a UN resolution which allowed NATO to carry out air strikes to stop the brutal ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. The last time we failed to act on a genocide 6 million people died. That's why we went in , to stop women and children getting killed in cold blood because they were born in the wrong area.

3)As I said above Gaddafi was funding terrorism, he was also using tanks and mig's to target innocent civilian protesters, this is why we got involved. He was a brutal, savage dictator who had not only stolen millions, raped his own bodyguards but he was killing his own people. Do you know what it's like to live under fear that one day your door will get broken down and you'll get killed without a second though?

[tovaris]

You say the gulf war was legitimate, yet earlier in your point you critized us for going in.

There's a place called dunblane in scotland, a plane was blown up there killing over 200 people. The person who did it was part of Gaddafi's secret service, he sold arms to the IRA who were killing British soldiers and blowing up shops.

1) By calling Israel Zionist it makes you appear very bias, and such shows your blind hatred towards them. Try and detach yourself from your point.

2)I know both maticek and mike will disagree with me, but we had a UN resolution which allowed NATO to carry out air strikes to stop the brutal ethnic cleansing in Kosovo. The last time we failed to act on a genocide 6 million people died. That's why we went in , to stop women and children getting killed in cold blood because they were born in the wrong area.

3)As I said above Gaddafi was funding terrorism, he was also using tanks and mig's to target innocent civilian protesters, this is why we got involved. He was a brutal, savage dictator who had not only stolen millions, raped his own bodyguards but he was killing his own people. Do you know what it's like to live under fear that one day your door will get broken down and you'll get killed without a second though?

1) Israel is a evil agresor no mather how you look at it.

2) Now i have to reply you mentioned me.
UN is a organisation that strives to prevent war not make it, therefore they contridicted themselves (see this). (http://goo.gl/jfQ8k) Read up on your history, try to see past germanic(that includes anglo-saxons) propaganda, How can you prevent a genocide by ading the peole commiting it? Yes i agre they were being killed because they were serbs born in the land being ocupied by Albanians.

3) Gadafi was a rufled evil dictator no doubt about that. But it was a civil war not to be medledin by foreighn powers.
I know for a fact that Gadafeist forces used more Galeb fighters than migs, just an observation.