Should gay marriage be legalized in the US?

[Cicero]

This poll is private. No one will see your answers.

Here's 1 Pro and Con based off of the issue:



Pro
Gay marriages can bring financial gain to state and local governments. Revenue from gay marriage comes from marriage licenses, higher income taxes (the so-called "marriage penalty"), and decreases in costs for state benefit programs. [4] The Comptroller for New York City found that legalizing gay marriage would bring $142 million to the City’s economy and $184 million to the State’s economy (127 KB) over three years. [43]

Con
People should not have their tax dollars used to support something they find wrong. Gay marriage would entitle gay couples to typical marriage benefits including claiming a tax exemption for a spouse, receiving social security payments from a deceased spouse, and coverage by a spouse’s health insurance policy. On Dec. 17, 2009, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that the cost to the federal government of extending employment benefits to same-sex domestic partners of certain federal employees (making no mention of additional costs such as Social Security and inheritance taxes) would be $596 million in mandatory spending and $302 million in discretionary spending (28 KB) between 2010 and 2019. [37]

I personally believe that you can support gay rights, yet not accept gay marriage.

[HockeyLovesMe]

i said yes

[Jess]

Of course it should be legalized! It's been legalized in other countries, so why can't the US go the same way?

[Cicero]

Of course it should be legalized! It's been legalized in other countries, so why can't the US go the same way?
That's like saying

Everyone is smoking weed, so why can't I?

[Jess]

I still don't see any negatives to legalizing gay marriage besides that one con you listed.

[britishboy]

I still don't see any negatives to legalizing gay marriage besides that one con you listed.

its just a title so I dont really care and some gays actually dont want it

[Stronger]

Yes of course it should be, but there are also other issues within that realm that need to be fixed besides allowing same sex marriage, a big one is the tax breaks straight couples get but gay couples get hit with horribly high estate taxes, etc.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Of course. The opposition never can come up with anything reasonable other than "It's just wrong" but that's not a reason it shouldn't be really. Except "bandwagon" which makes some sense, but that doesn't mean it IS wrong.

[sixguy6]

i dont know maybe

every body has an opsion

-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[kenoloor]

i dont know maybe

Thank you for your invaluable contribution to this discussion.

every body has an opsion

Could you clarify what you mean by this?

My 2p:

Of course it should be legalized. Duh. My tax dollars are going towards things that I don't support (the military comes readily to mind), so that's a bullshit argument.

A lot of opposition to marriage equality rights tend to come from Christian groups saying that they define marriage as one man and one woman. But the concept of marriage came LONG before anybody thought up Christianity. Therefore, it is not theirs to define.

[Harry Smith]

This poll is private. No one will see your answers.

Here's 1 Pro and Con based off of the issue:



Pro
Gay marriages can bring financial gain to state and local governments. Revenue from gay marriage comes from marriage licenses, higher income taxes (the so-called "marriage penalty"), and decreases in costs for state benefit programs. [4] The Comptroller for New York City found that legalizing gay marriage would bring $142 million to the City’s economy and $184 million to the State’s economy (127 KB) over three years. [43]

Con
People should not have their tax dollars used to support something they find wrong. Gay marriage would entitle gay couples to typical marriage benefits including claiming a tax exemption for a spouse, receiving social security payments from a deceased spouse, and coverage by a spouse’s health insurance policy. On Dec. 17, 2009, the Congressional Budget Office estimated that the cost to the federal government of extending employment benefits to same-sex domestic partners of certain federal employees (making no mention of additional costs such as Social Security and inheritance taxes) would be $596 million in mandatory spending and $302 million in discretionary spending (28 KB) between 2010 and 2019. [37]

I personally believe that you can support gay rights, yet not accept gay marriage.

Why shouldn't I have the same rights as you do?

[Cicero]

Why shouldn't I have the same rights as you do?

Idk

I never said I was against it, did I?

[PinkFloyd]

Yes to the power of a trillion

[Mob Boss]

Yes. If they want to get married, they should be allowed the same opportunities as everyone else. We're not a theocracy, and marriage isn't solely a religious ceremony. Churches aren't forced to perform gay marriage ceremonies. And we certainly shouldn't be implementing religious rules into laws that apply to EVERYone. It's absurd. The U.S. stands under the belief that we're all created equal, with rights such as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That seems hypocritical if we're not allowing two people in love the right to express that love through marriage, if they find that necessary. That seems like one of the biggest forms of discrimination there is, and our government is the one implementing it. And saying it isn't necessary or there is no point is just as naive. It's the principle behind the matter; we're all equal, bottom line. Our government should stand by that, but does a poor job of doing so. This is the 21st century. We aren't all drenched in religious beliefs, so we shouldn't still have such archaic laws that are. I don't care if someone wants to marry a cactus - it might be physically and emotionally painful, but whatever your little heart desires, go for it.

[Harry Smith]

Idk

I never said I was against it, did I?

I know :) I was just trying to express it quite bluntly to dismiss the many sidetracks of this debate

[ImCoolBeans]

Con
People should not have their tax dollars used to support something they find wrong.

If I don't support public schooling, public roadways, social security disability, welfare, or any other public department/program that uses tax revenue then all I can really do about it is bitch and moan.

"I don't support gay marriage because my tax dollars could possibly be going into their welfare checks if they don't have jobs or are going through a hard time!" Come on man... that's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in my life. People are reallllllllyyyy going out on a limb these days as we keep getting closer to equality. It seems like the closer we get to sexuality equality the more out there and ridiculous the reasonings behind halting equality get. It's pathetic, sad and disgusting. And no, that is not me "bashing your beliefs". That is me telling you that oppression is fucking offensive and that those who oppress should sit the fuck down and stop bitching about this (should be)non-issue while people in the LGBTQ community, myself being one, go through humiliation, anxiety, opression, depression, rejection and an innumerable amount of other taxing consequences just because I like to stick my dick in something other than you do. Sorry for being a little different, maybe if I had a redo I'd "pick" something different since you seem to believe I chose to be "this way".

[Cicero]

If I don't support public schooling, public roadways, social security disability, welfare, or any other public department/program that uses tax revenue then all I can really do about it is bitch and moan.

"I don't support gay marriage because my tax dollars could possibly be going into their welfare checks if they don't have jobs or are going through a hard time!" Come on man... that's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in my life. People are reallllllllyyyy going out on a limb these days as we keep getting closer to equality. It seems like the closer we get to sexuality equality the more out there and ridiculous the reasonings behind halting equality get. It's pathetic, sad and disgusting. And no, that is not me "bashing your beliefs". That is me telling you that oppression is fucking offensive and that those who oppress should sit the fuck down and stop bitching about this (should be)non-issue while people in the LGBTQ community, myself being one, go through humiliation, anxiety, opression, depression, rejection and an innumerable amount of other taxing consequences just because I like to stick my dick in something other than you do. Sorry for being a little different, maybe if I had a redo I'd "pick" something different since you seem to believe I chose to be "this way".

I got that from a website.

But here's more showing they aren't all ridiculous

Con

Gay marriage could potentially lead down a "slippery slope” ending with giving people in polygamous, incestuous, bestial, and other nontraditional relationships the right to marry. [10] Glen Lavy, JD, senior counsel with the Alliance Defense Fund, argued in a May 21, 2008 Los Angeles Times Op-Ed, "The movement for polygamy and polyamory is poised to use the successes of same-sex couples as a springboard for further de-institutionalizing marriage." [11]

Same-sex marriage is not a civil right, and conflating the issue with interracial marriage is misleading. Matthew D. Staver, JD, Dean of the Liberty University School of Law, explained: "The unifying characteristics of the protected classes within the Civil Rights Act of 1964 include (1) a history of longstanding, widespread discrimination, (2) economic disadvantage, and (3) immutable characteristics... 'Sexual orientation' does not meet any of the three objective criteria shared by the historically protected civil rights categories." [62]

Pro

If marriage is about reproduction, then infertile couples would not be allowed to marry. Ability or desire to create offspring has never been a qualification for marriage. George Washington, often referred to as "the Father of Our Country,” did not have children with his wife Martha Custis, and neither did four other married US presidents. [9]


Marriage in the US is a secular and dynamic institution that has gone under several major transformations. Interracial marriage was illegal in many US states until a 1967 Supreme Court decision. Coverture, where a woman's legal rights and economic identity were subsumed by her husband upon marriage, was commonplace in 19th century America. No-fault divorce has changed the institution of marriage since its introduction in California on Jan. 1, 1970. Nancy Cott, PhD, testified in Perry v. Schwarzenegger that "[c]ivil law has always been supreme in defining and regulating marriage” (343 KB) and that religious leaders are accustomed to performing marriages only because the state has given them that authority. [41]


I never said yu chose to be gay. I said that I believe genetics can make someone prone to being gay, and environment has a big part with making someone gay.

[ImCoolBeans]

I got that from a website.

Cool, I reflected on it.

[Tucker13]

I said yes. Love has no gender

[Azunite]

It should be legalised of course; but at least 20 years later or so.

US citizens are still not ready for such a thing.

[Korashk]

But here's more showing they aren't all ridiculous
Both of those arguments are ridiculous.

Gay marriage could potentially lead down a "slippery slope” ending with giving people in polygamous, incestuous, bestial, and other nontraditional relationships the right to marry. [10] Glen Lavy, JD, senior counsel with the Alliance Defense Fund, argued in a May 21, 2008 Los Angeles Times Op-Ed, "The movement for polygamy and polyamory is poised to use the successes of same-sex couples as a springboard for further de-institutionalizing marriage." [11]
First of all, the "slippery slope" argument is two things depending on the context it's used. The first is ridiculous because it compares a consenting legal adult to an inanimate object, or not really an objection.

This is a little of both what with comparing gay marriage to bestiality. I shouldn't even have to explain why that's retarded. If a person can't see why for themselves they aren't even worth having a discussion with on the issue.
The second is that why shouldn't some of the other non-traditional types of marriage such as polygamy be legalized? You can't use that as a point against gay marriage because you haven't shown that those themselves are bad.

Same-sex marriage is not a civil right, and conflating the issue with interracial marriage is misleading. Matthew D. Staver, JD, Dean of the Liberty University School of Law, explained: "The unifying characteristics of the protected classes within the Civil Rights Act of 1964 include (1) a history of longstanding, widespread discrimination, (2) economic disadvantage, and (3) immutable characteristics... 'Sexual orientation' does not meet any of the three objective criteria shared by the historically protected civil rights categories." [62]
The only one of those criteria that homosexuals might not fit is "economic disadvantage" because there definitely is a longstanding history of widespread discrimination against them and sexuality is for all practical purposes an immutable characteristic.

[StoppingTime]

I got that from a website.



Then what exactly is the point to this debate? All your reasons and sources are from some external source - they're not even your opinion. And it's not like you don't know how this debate is going to turn out: the vast majority of this forum will unanimously agree that it should be legalized (which it should) and that the other side has no logical arguments (which it really doesn't). What I don't understand is why you choose to bring in random points and argue them here. To me it seems like you're simply arguing for the sake of looking for a fight, and I'm not really sure what the point is.

[teen.jpg]

If I don't support public schooling, public roadways, social security disability, welfare, or any other public department/program that uses tax revenue then all I can really do about it is bitch and moan.

"I don't support gay marriage because my tax dollars could possibly be going into their welfare checks if they don't have jobs or are going through a hard time!" Come on man... that's got to be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in my life. People are reallllllllyyyy going out on a limb these days as we keep getting closer to equality. It seems like the closer we get to sexuality equality the more out there and ridiculous the reasonings behind halting equality get. It's pathetic, sad and disgusting. And no, that is not me "bashing your beliefs". That is me telling you that oppression is fucking offensive and that those who oppress should sit the fuck down and stop bitching about this (should be)non-issue while people in the LGBTQ community, myself being one, go through humiliation, anxiety, opression, depression, rejection and an innumerable amount of other taxing consequences just because I like to stick my dick in something other than you do. Sorry for being a little different, maybe if I had a redo I'd "pick" something different since you seem to believe I chose to be "this way".

PREACH!

No, but really. It's sad to think that this is still an issue, when we've come so far as a people. You don't have to support it, but who are YOU to prevent someone to get married. Go on, I'm waiting ...

[britishboy]

PREACH!

No, but really. It's sad to think that this is still an issue, when we've come so far as a people. You don't have to support it, but who are YOU to prevent someone to get married. Go on, I'm waiting ...

who are you to tell people what they can do?! everyone has an opinion

[Harry Smith]

who are you to tell people what they can do?! everyone has an opinion

he was saying why should you stand in the way of other people doing something which doesn't affect you at all

[teen.jpg]

who are you to tell people what they can do?! everyone has an opinion

Sure, but when your opinion stands in the way of someone's rights, then it's a problem. And don't act like you have no idea what I'm talking about.

[britishboy]

he was saying why should you stand in the way of other people doing something which doesn't affect you at all

so? you cant insult someone because of what they believe but personally I agree if it dont affect you dobt get involved

[teen.jpg]

so? you cant insult someone because of what they believe but personally I agree if it dont affect you dobt get involved

Don't be a hypocrite. I'm sure we all remember how much you flip-flopped ideas in the last gay marriage discussion we had.

[britishboy]

Don't be a hypocrite. I'm sure we all remember how much you flip-flopped ideas in the last gay marriage discussion we had.

im pro gay rights idiot just in my opinion its not natural and do I give a fuck what you think?

[teen.jpg]

im pro gay rights idiot just in my opinion its not natural and do I give a fuck what you think?

o.O Who are you getting angry at? I can see your intolerance showing. Better keep that under wraps before everyone sees the real you!

And, care to explain how it is not natural?

[britishboy]

o.O Who are you getting angry at? I can see your intolerance showing. Better keep that under wraps before everyone sees the real you!

And, care to explain how it is not natural?

the real me? haha your so laim and ive already explained it and I was just saying you have no right to insult imcoolbeans opinions

[teen.jpg]

the real me? haha your so laim and ive already explained it and I was just saying you have no right to insult imcoolbeans opinions

What are you even saying? I agree with everything ImCoolBeans said. But I guess you'd say anything to make yourself look better, huh?

And no, you haven't explained it. Because you've changed your opinion so many times it's not even consistent.

[britishboy]

What are you even saying? I agree with everything ImCoolBeans said. But I guess you'd say anything to make yourself look better, huh?

And no, you haven't explained it. Because you've changed your opinion so many times it's not even consistent.

god your annoying what on earth is wrong with you? its not natural because they cant naturally reproduce but should have rights to father a child and to marry

[teen.jpg]

god your annoying what on earth is wrong with you? its not natural because they cant naturally reproduce but should have rights to father a child and to marry

And what exactly is your definition of natural?

From thefreedictionary.com
nat·u·ral *(nchr-l, nchrl)
adj.
1. Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl.
2. Of, relating to, or concerning nature: a natural environment.
3. Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature: a natural death.

1. Homosexuality is present in many other animals, including Horses, Giraffes, Cats, Bears, and many others.
2. If heterosexuality is natural and happens in nature, then so is homosexuality.
3. Majority of humans are hetero, but for other animals, a majority of the population may be homosexual. Both of which is natural.

Now that I've provided all that, how is it NOT natural?

[britishboy]

And what exactly is your definition of natural?

From thefreedictionary.com
nat·u·ral *(nchr-l, nchrl)
adj.
1. Present in or produced by nature: a natural pearl.
2. Of, relating to, or concerning nature: a natural environment.
3. Conforming to the usual or ordinary course of nature: a natural death.

1. Homosexuality is present in many other animals, including Horses, Giraffes, Cats, Bears, and many others.
2. If heterosexuality is natural and happens in nature, then so is homosexuality.
3. Majority of humans are hetero, but for other animals, a majority of the population may be homosexual. Both of which is natural.

Now that I've provided all that, how is it NOT natural?

do you not study? this is opinion and will never be fact its the same as Wayne Rooney looking like shreck

[teen.jpg]

do you not study? this is opinion and will never be fact its the same as Wayne Rooney looking like shreck

You're just saying that because you're in denial and have no other arguement to support your opinion.

[britishboy]

You're just saying that because you're in denial and have no other arguement to support your opinion.

denial of what? stop attention seeking and ITS A FUCKING OPINION GROW UP

[StoppingTime]

do you not study? this is opinion and will never be fact its the same as Wayne Rooney looking like shreck

firstly, that analogy makes no sense. Second, you seriously need to stop with name calling. You're the only one who finds it necessary to yell at people and insult others, so knock it off. If it continues you'll be infracted; you've been warned plenty of times.

Oh, and if you can't support your opinion with anything other than "FUCK YOU IT'S MY OPINION" please don't post it here

[britishboy]

firstly, that analogy makes no sense. Second, you seriously need to stop with name calling. You're the only one who finds it necessary to yell at people and insult others, so knock it off. If it continues you'll be infracted; you've been warned plenty of times.

Oh, and if you can't support your opinion with anything other than "FUCK YOU IT'S MY OPINION" please don't post it here

people treat me like a kid and talk down to me lol and gay being natural is a matter of opinion as it cant be proved?

[StoppingTime]

people treat me like a kid and talk down to me lol and gay being natural is a matter of opinion as it cant be proved?

People treat you like you don't know what you're taking about because:
1. You don't use anything near proper English when posting and use virtually no punctuation
2. Your opinions change from one thread to the next
3. You never back up anything you say.

I'm not saying that they're right or you're right, rather, stating why people treat you the way you do. If you want them to stop looking down on your posts, then try to address some of those points above.

And there have been countless scientific studies that suggest that homosexuality is not only natural (as it's been observed in many other species) but that it is in fact not a choice. Sure, I think that your environment can influence sexuality, but it's not something you can actively choose.

[teen.jpg]

people treat me like a kid and talk down to me lol and gay being natural is a matter of opinion as it cant be proved?

Because you act like a kid? And no, it is NOT an opinion, you arguing with fact is an opinion. I don't think you understand how ridiculous you sound.

denial of what? stop attention seeking and ITS A FUCKING OPINION GROW UP

Yes, because typing that in all caps isn't attention seeking? And I'm the one who needs to grow up, even though you resort to name-calling to get a point across?

Your arguement is invalid and flawed. You flip-flop opinions constantly. You scream and yell to get an opinion across.

Need I say more?

[britishboy]

Because you act like a kid? And no, it is NOT an opinion, you arguing with fact is an opinion. I don't think you understand how ridiculous you sound.



Yes, because typing that in all caps isn't attention seeking? And I'm the one who needs to grow up, even though you resort to name-calling to get a point across?

Your arguement is invalid and flawed. You flip-flop opinions constantly. You scream and yell to get an opinion across.

Need I say more?

its an opinion thats a fact ive been studying this also I'm nit repling anymore, I have no interest in this topic lol lets agree to disagree

[Harry Smith]

do you not study? this is opinion and will never be fact its the same as Wayne Rooney looking like shreck

Your comparing a footballer to a cartoon character? That really shows off your intellect

its an opinion thats a fact ive been studying this also I'm nit repling anymore, I have no interest in this topic lol lets agree to disagree

that's what you say when you realize you've got your back to the wall, your part of the rapidly forming axis of Idiocy on this forum. You can't even make up your mind about anything, you just keep saying stuff like it's an opinion or whatever. I don't understand how you can say being gay isn't natural but claim to be pro rights. That's like me saying black people are inferior but I'm pro black rights. You have no idea what your talking about mate

[teen.jpg]

its an opinion thats a fact ive been studying this also I'm nit repling anymore, I have no interest in this topic lol lets agree to disagree

Abandon the thread as soon as you realize you have no room to argue? Fine. But when this same thread pops up next week and I'm here to provide facts to you again, don't flip-flop ideas.

[britishboy]

Your comparing a footballer to a cartoon character? That really shows off your intellect



that's what you say when you realize you've got your back to the wall, your part of the rapidly forming axis of Idiocy on this forum. You can't even make up your mind about anything, you just keep saying stuff like it's an opinion or whatever. I don't understand how you can say being gay isn't natural but claim to be pro rights. That's like me saying black people are inferior but I'm pro black rights. You have no idea what your talking about mate

I am pro rights because your are people! and I just dont believe your its natural because you cant have sex naturally

[Harry Smith]

I am pro rights because your are people! and I just dont believe your its natural because you cant have sex naturally

Your not pro gay rights, you just claim to be so that you don't get attacked on this forum. Sex isn't the base of a relationship, sex isn't the one factor in a relationship. But please tell me how do you know that gay intercourse is not natural? Is there a big sign floating above earth saying Gay sex is not natural.

I can naturally engage in sex with a man. End of

[britishboy]

Your not pro gay rights, you just claim to be so that you don't get attacked on this forum. Sex isn't the base of a relationship, sex isn't the one factor in a relationship. But please tell me how do you know that gay intercourse is not natural? Is there a big sign floating above earth saying Gay sex is not natural.

I can naturally engage in sex with a man. End of

because you cant have a baby lol but im pro gay because 1) you cant chose it 2) its like hating black people (racist) 3) we are both human and are good members of society and 4) no gay man is the same, the stereotype is that all where pink but sone do fights, crimes and one was even a rugby player, I dont believe being gay is not natural just how you have babies or the fact you cant etc

[Harry Smith]

because you cant have a baby lol but im pro gay because 1) you cant chose it 2) its like hating black people (racist) 3) we are both human and are good members of society and 4) no gay man is the same, the stereotype is that all where pink but sone do fights, crimes and one was even a rugby player, I dont believe being gay is not natural just how you have babies or the fact you cant etc

Yet you discriminate against homosexuals by calling them unnatural implying that it is something out of the ordinary. Your trying to define us as being something separate, albeit it equal but still separate from the a 'Natural straight person like yourself.

So an elderly couple have sex, by your theory it is unnatural because they can't have kids.

Also putting lol next to something doesn't make me feel sympathetic to your opinion, it just makes me think your an idiot

[Jess]

because you cant have a baby lol but im pro gay because 1) you cant chose it 2) its like hating black people (racist) 3) we are both human and are good members of society and 4) no gay man is the same, the stereotype is that all where pink but sone do fights, crimes and one was even a rugby player, I dont believe being gay is not natural just how you have babies or the fact you cant etc

Are you saying it's unnatural just because they can't have kids? That makes sterile people unnatural, same with people who DON'T want kids

[Cicero]

Then what exactly is the point to this debate? All your reasons and sources are from some external source - they're not even your opinion. And it's not like you don't know how this debate is going to turn out: the vast majority of this forum will unanimously agree that it should be legalized (which it should) and that the other side has no logical arguments (which it really doesn't). What I don't understand is why you choose to bring in random points and argue them here. To me it seems like you're simply arguing for the sake of looking for a fight, and I'm not really sure what the point is.

I wanted to see other people's opinion, and show that there is a legit reason why people are pro and con gay marriage.

[Harry Smith]

I wanted to see other people's opinion, and show that there is a legit reason why people are pro and con gay marriage.

I don't think there is a legitimate reason to deny someone their rights

[StoppingTime]

I wanted to see other people's opinion, and show that there is a legit reason why people are pro and con gay marriage.

If you went out on the street and asked 50 people whether they were pro/anti gay marriage, I can almost guarantee they wouldn't say, "oh well I don't want my tax dollars going towards them." Why? Because people's tax dollars go to things they already don't support. So why would they make a big deal over this? They'd say no because it isn't "traditional" it "makes them uncomfortable" it's "not natural because they choose" it "goes against everyone's religion."
You're trying to provide rational arguments that nobody believes in. Those against gay marriage are almost completely irrational in their arguments.

[HowlingSnail]

Well I personally think that it should be legal. People are always coming up with bullshit excuses like "It's not natural" and "They can't reproduce". These arguments have already been refuted to death, so I won't go into those, but there are some others that haven't to my knowledge been mentioned yet, so I'll chip in with my criticisms of those arguments:

"You can't change the definition of marriage"-Why not? We defined marriage in the first place, so we can damn well re-define it. Language isn't set in stone. Words are added to the dictionary all the time to accomodate changes in language, so why can't we alter entries too to accomodate this?

"It's wrong according to (insert religion here)"-Wonderful. Well I'd just like to inform you that not everyone shares your religious beliefs. If you don't like gay marriage, then don't marry someone the same gender as you, but at the same time, don't tell someone else not to.