Welfare & Government Assisstance

[Southside]

Do you believe a government should have the responsibility to feed and provide medical service to its citizens? I believe a government should provide assistance to it's citizens who are disadvantaged.Too many people these days think welfare and government assistance are for people who sit at home all day doing nothing. Though I want to ask, what about a single mother who is a waitress or clerk who struggles to feed her child? What about that 70 year old lady who needs to make the decision between eating or buying medicine? Do you agree with Obamacare?

[chrisawesome]

Do I believe that the government should provide welfare for its citizens.
Yes and No
Yes if your an old lady and have to decide between medicine or food

NO If your a no good lazy bum that gets the same benefits as someone who is working to afford healthcare and you just get the same benefits. Definately no because your not even trying to work and your sucking the income off the rich because you think your entitled to another person's salary.

[randomnessqueen]

the government should help make it more accessible
but ones health is all on their own shoulders

[britishboy]

in britian we have free health care:) woop woop

[Sugaree]

It's the state's responsibility to make sure people have access to these programs. However, it is not the state's responsibility to force their programs on the people.

[Cicero]

It's not the governments job to support people or give free healthcare. But it wouldn't be bad if the state provided affordable healthcare at a cost, like, where the people pay money to a government ran hospital. As long as its affordable to those who can't afford much.

But, overall, it should be left to business. The government should encourage competition, not weaken it. I agree with few parts of Obamacare.

We shouldn't be spreading the wealth around, cause the wealthy worked hard for their money. Whether its working hard in terms of blood and sweat, or through stocks. If you say someone inherited their money, it doesn't mean they deserve less of it, it just means someone else worked hard so they could have a better life then they themselves did. Plus, the wealthy support the jobs in America. You don't see a hobo, or a janitor supplying jobs or owning a business.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

It's the government's job to help people live better lives. but not force policies down the throats of their citizens, and leave them to choke to death.

[Taryn98]

In short, I believe in personal responsibility
nobody should get anything for free

If you accept government aid, it should be a loan and you should have to pay it back, and if you can't/don't it should be passed to your heirs to pay and like student loan debt, you shouldn't be able to have it forgiven through backruptcy

[Southside]

In short, I believe in personal responsibility
nobody should get anything for free

If you accept government aid, it should be a loan and you should have to pay it back, and if you can't/don't it should be passed to your heirs to pay and like student loan debt, you shouldn't be able to have it forgiven through backruptcy

So, your against providing healthcare to a elderly lady who cant afford it? Your against helping a single mother who works multiple hours and cant feed her child?

[Sugaree]

So, your against providing healthcare to a elderly lady who cant afford it? Your against helping a single mother who works multiple hours and cant feed her child?

See, now you're projecting. She never said that.

[Southside]

See, now you're projecting. She never said that.

Thats what I interpreted, she said its their "Personal responsibility"

[Sugaree]

Thats what I interpreted, she said its their "Personal responsibility"

Obviously no one is going to say they wouldn't give healthcare to an elderly woman who can't afford the premiums of insurance.

[Harry Smith]

Obviously no one is going to say they wouldn't give healthcare to an elderly woman who can't afford the premiums of insurance.

but that's the very premise of being against universal or if any sort of healthcare, people are very much happy to overlook the personal cases for political gains

[Sugaree]

but that's the very premise of being against universal or if any sort of healthcare, people are very much happy to overlook the personal cases for political gains

True. Though I personally don't see many problems with universal healthcare, I still think that there needs to be a level of personal responsibility involved in it. Otherwise, you're just being put into a nanny state.

[Taryn98]

So, your against providing healthcare to a elderly lady who cant afford it? Your against helping a single mother who works multiple hours and cant feed her child?

why does the elderly lady not have money? you should be saving money towards retirement from the day you start working, nobody should pay for her if she didn't plan

why does the single mother working multiple jobs not have money? maybe she shouldn't have had her child, maybe she should have gotten better education. Those are not my responsibilities.

I've been saving money for college for several years through babysitting and now that I'm 15 I'm planning on getting a summer job to make more. I don't plan on taking student loans and make responsible decisions so I don't have a kid until I'm ready. I can't help stupid or lazy.

If people fail to plan, they plan to fail!
And that is not my problem. I don't want anyone to help me and they shouldn't expect help from anyone either.
If people want to donate to charity, that's great thing and I support that, but you shouldn't be forced by the governemnt to support others for any reason.

[Southside]

why does the elderly lady not have money? you should be saving money towards retirement from the day you start working, nobody should pay for her if she didn't plan

why does the single mother working multiple jobs not have money? maybe she shouldn't have had her child, maybe she should have gotten better education. Those are not my responsibilities.

I've been saving money for college for several years through babysitting and now that I'm 15 I'm planning on getting a summer job to make more. I don't plan on taking student loans and make responsible decisions so I don't have a kid until I'm ready. I can't help stupid or lazy.

If people fail to plan, they plan to fail!
And that is not my problem. I don't want anyone to help me and they shouldn't expect help from anyone either.
If people want to donate to charity, that's great thing and I support that, but you shouldn't be forced by the governemnt to support others for any reason.

People do make responsible decisions, they just fall on hard times. Not every comes from a family where the dad is a lawyer or a high ranking company officer, 60% of college students have student loans. I guess a person who is layed off isnt making a responsible choice by applying for food stamps are they? They should have saved a few thousand dollars...Oh, shame on them. I'll agree with you on this, I wouldnt give welfare to a mother who doesnt work and has 7 kids, thats just plain stupidity on the mother. Though, I would give welfare to a mother with one or two kids who works her ass off to make ends meet. I'd also give it to a person who was been layed off from a job position. Not everyone on welfare is lazy and trying to mooch off the government. It's truly people out there who have fallen on hard times.
You cant plan for everything, ok you save up a few thousand dollars in a rainy day fund, a family easily spends about 100-150 dollars at the grocery store, not to mention utilities and stuff like that.

[Pure Innocent Nun]

why does the elderly lady not have money? you should be saving money towards retirement from the day you start working, nobody should pay for her if she didn't plan

why does the single mother working multiple jobs not have money? maybe she shouldn't have had her child, maybe she should have gotten better education. Those are not my responsibilities.

I've been saving money for college for several years through babysitting and now that I'm 15 I'm planning on getting a summer job to make more. I don't plan on taking student loans and make responsible decisions so I don't have a kid until I'm ready. I can't help stupid or lazy.

If people fail to plan, they plan to fail!
And that is not my problem. I don't want anyone to help me and they shouldn't expect help from anyone either.
If people want to donate to charity, that's great thing and I support that, but you shouldn't be forced by the governemnt to support others for any reason.

My Mother depended on welfare for the first year I was born because my dad decided to fuck her over and leave before I was born, despite having two jobs she couldn't afford to take care of my great grandmother, herself, and I.

People can't see the future, it's hard to plan ahead.

Oh and you're only 15 and you think you know how the world works, why don't you live a little before you start being a judgmental asshole.

[Taryn98]

My Mother depended on welfare for the first year I was born because my dad decided to fuck her over and leave before I was born, despite having two jobs she couldn't afford to take care of my great grandmother, herself, and I.

People can't see the future, it's hard to plan ahead.

Oh and you're only 15 and you think you know how the world works, why don't you live a little before you start being a judgmental asshole.

You should always plan for the worst and hope for the best. I guess your mother made a bad choice to have a child with your dad. Why should that be everyone else responsibility?
If being personally responsible, accountable, and hard working makes me an asshole, I'll take great pride in being the biggest asshole around.

[Pure Innocent Nun]

You should always plan for the worst and hope for the best. I guess your mother made a bad choice to have a child with your dad. Why should that be everyone else responsibility?
If being personally responsible, accountable, and hard working makes me an asshole, I'll take great pride in being the biggest asshole around.

She wasn't planning to have a child, she didn't know my dad would leave her at the last second, and have fun being an ass.

[Taryn98]

She wasn't planning to have a child, she didn't know my dad would leave her at the last second, and have fun being an ass.

You don't like my point of view so you resort to name calling. That speaks volumes about your maturity and lack of character.

And you can't have a child if you make the personal choice not to have sex, but I guess that was someone else's fault.

[Pure Innocent Nun]

You don't like my point of view so you resort to name calling. That speaks volumes about your maturity and lack of character.

And you can't have a child if you make the personal choice not to have sex, but I guess that was someone else's fault.

You're the one who started throwing around the word idiot, I'm not going to be nice to someone like you.

Like I said before, it was a purely an accident.

[Harry Smith]

why does the elderly lady not have money? you should be saving money towards retirement from the day you start working, nobody should pay for her if she didn't plan

why does the single mother working multiple jobs not have money? maybe she shouldn't have had her child, maybe she should have gotten better education. Those are not my responsibilities.

I've been saving money for college for several years through babysitting and now that I'm 15 I'm planning on getting a summer job to make more. I don't plan on taking student loans and make responsible decisions so I don't have a kid until I'm ready. I can't help stupid or lazy.

If people fail to plan, they plan to fail!
And that is not my problem. I don't want anyone to help me and they shouldn't expect help from anyone either.
If people want to donate to charity, that's great thing and I support that, but you shouldn't be forced by the governemnt to support others for any reason.

that is probably the most arrogant thing I've ever read, someone seems to nbe up them self a bit. Luckily not everyone in the world is as twisted as you are, some people care if we see someone who can't afford to feed there children or if an elderly lady can't pay for treatment. Stuff happens in life which means even if you plan it can still go wrong. The NHS in this country saved my life, with out it I would be dead.

[Taryn98]

That's what charity is for, not government forced redistribution. I'm all for charity and actively volunteer through my church but the government shouldnt force people to pay for others if they don't want to.

[Southside]

That's what charity is for, not government forced redistribution. I'm all for charity and actively volunteer through my church but the government shouldnt force people to pay for others if they don't want to.

Your church can feed 46 million(Amount of people on food stamps) every month? Only 4.1% of the US population is on welfare, you make it seem like tax dollars are feeding half of the country. If your damned concerned about tax dollars, write a letter to your senator or congress person telling them to stop giving 2.1 Billion annually to Egypt, 30 billion annually to Israel. Those are the real tax dollar waste, not helping a elderly women afford medicine or a single mother feeding her child. It's sad how third world countries like Cuba(Has of the best health systems in the world) & Venezuela have universal healthcare but the most powerful country in the world doesnt.

[Taryn98]

Your church can feed 46 million(Amount of people on food stamps) every month? Only 4.1% of the US population is on welfare, you make it seem like tax dollars are feeding half of the country. If your damned concerned about tax dollars, write a letter to your senator or congress person telling them to stop giving 2.1 Billion annually to Egypt, 30 billion annually to Israel. Those are the real tax dollar waste, not helping a elderly women afford medicine or a single mother feeding her child. It's sad how third world countries like Cuba(Has of the best health systems in the world) & Venezuela have universal healthcare but the most powerful country in the world doesnt.

I agree with you that the government wastes money on many, many things. That is huge problem with our government, and I'm not just referring to Obama. Both parties have wasted far too much money over the last 50 years. And that waste isn't just on foreign aid. Honestly I think every government agency wastes money.

In response to your tax comment, the problem is that 47% of Americans pay no federal taxes at all. 0%!! The other 53% of Americans have to pay for everything that the governments does. The top 1% pays 38% of all the taxes and the top 10% pays 70% of all federal taxes. Basically, 10% of Americans pay for 70% of America's needs. To me that's messed up. And I know the common response that the top whatever % owns 90% of all the wealth in the country, but we're taxed based on income not wealth.

And I don't feel that what someone makes should effect their tax rate. If you make $1 or $1 billion dollars, you should pay the exact same rate (flat tax with no deductions).

[Harry Smith]

I agree with you that the government wastes money on many, many things. That is huge problem with our government, and I'm not just referring to Obama. Both parties have wasted far too much money over the last 50 years. And that waste isn't just on foreign aid. Honestly I think every government agency wastes money.

In response to your tax comment, the problem is that 47% of Americans pay no federal taxes at all. 0%!! The other 53% of Americans have to pay for everything that the governments does. The top 1% pays 38% of all the taxes and the top 10% pays 70% of all federal taxes. Basically, 10% of Americans pay for 70% of America's needs. To me that's messed up. And I know the common response that the top whatever % owns 90% of all the wealth in the country, but we're taxed based on income not wealth.

And I don't feel that what someone makes should effect their tax rate. If you make $1 or $1 billion dollars, you should pay the exact same rate (flat tax with no deductions).

wow, with a flat rate system you either have to make massive cuts to all public spending because your going to have very low tax rates in order for the poorer people to even pay it. A flat tax would make people homeless, it brought down the Thatcher government over here in the 90's, the idea that a Duke should pay the same amount of Tax as his cleaner is absurd

[Taryn98]

wow, with a flat rate system you either have to make massive cuts to all public spending because your going to have very low tax rates in order for the poorer people to even pay it. A flat tax would make people homeless, it brought down the Thatcher government over here in the 90's, the idea that a Duke should pay the same amount of Tax as his cleaner is absurd

I completely disagree. If our country is based on equality then it should be enforced for everything, not just pick and choose. And I agree that we would need massive cuts, WE DO! We borrow 42 cents of every dollar we spend! THAT"S THE PROBLEM!! If we continue this way we will be bankrupt within 20 years. We will lose social security, medicare, medicaid because we won't be able to pay for them.

The good thing about the flat tax it that the rich can't deduct anything so they can't have a rate lower than the bulk of the middle class, and the poor still have to pay something. Everyone should have to pay something! Nobody should receive assistance from the governement and pay nothing. That is totally absurd to me!

[Harry Smith]

I completely disagree. If our country is based on equality then it should be enforced for everything, not just pick and choose. And I agree that we would need massive cuts, WE DO! We borrow 42 cents of every dollar we spend! THAT"S THE PROBLEM!! If we continue this way we will be bankrupt within 20 years. We will lose social security, medicare, medicaid because we won't be able to pay for them.

The good thing about the flat tax it that the rich can't deduct anything so they can't have a rate lower than the bulk of the middle class, and the poor still have to pay something. Everyone should have to pay something! Nobody should receive assistance from the governement and pay nothing. That is totally absurd to me!

The US tax system differs from the UK's one, I don't understand why Borrowing is seen as so bad in the bad in the states, I mean we've been borrowing money for the last 100 years, I'm not really to fussed about foreign debt. If you have this crippling low tax rates then you might as well get rid of Social Security and Medicare because your not going to be getting any income if taxes are extremely low.

I agree that everyone should pay some form of tax, whether it's VAT on the clothes you buy, tax on your petrol or even council Tax. But many people rely on government welfare and assistance. Yes people abuse it, but the majority need it to survive

[Cicero]

The US tax system differs from the UK's one, I don't understand why Borrowing is seen as so bad in the bad in the states, I mean we've been borrowing money for the last 100 years, I'm not really to fussed about foreign debt. If you have this crippling low tax rates then you might as well get rid of Social Security and Medicare because your not going to be getting any income if taxes are extremely low.

I agree that everyone should pay some form of tax, whether it's VAT on the clothes you buy, tax on your petrol or even council Tax. But many people rely on government welfare and assistance. Yes people abuse it, but the majority need it to survive

And I wonder why no one who's wealthy (as in billionaire status) lives in Britain :rolleyes:

Borrowing is bad because we get charge interest, which means it makes our dollar go down. We then become dependent on other countries.

Your statement is so fucking stupid. It's like saying "Why can't I just borrow more money from the bank and not pay? That's no big deal"

[CallMeMatt]

Speaking of government aid...
I was at Target today, my friend Victoria and I were standing in line. The woman in front of us was paying for her stuff, and she used food stamps to pay. She walked out, and drove off in a brand new Cadillac Escalade. Wtf is this shit America- beat their asses.

[Harry Smith]

And I wonder why no one who's wealthy (as in billionaire status) lives in Britain :rolleyes:

Borrowing is bad because we get charge interest, which means it makes our dollar go down. We then become dependent on other countries.

Your statement is so fucking stupid. It's like saying "Why can't I just borrow more money from the bank and not pay? That's no big deal"

Richard Branson? David and Frederick Barclay? Both Billionaire's who live in the UK. So you were wrong about there being no-one weren't you?

No, my statment was that you shouldn't be opposed to borrowing as a practice

[CallMeMatt]

Branson owns Necker island. He doesn't count on reason of insanity from wealth.

[Cicero]

Richard Branson? David and Frederick Barclay? Both Billionaire's who live in the UK. So you were wrong about there being no-one weren't you?

No, my statment was that you shouldn't be opposed to borrowing as a practice

Ohhh good job, you found 3! I can find 50+ who live in the US. Branson got most of his wealth from the US

Borrowing isn't good when you're $17 trillion in debt. A little country like Britain has no need to worry about big stuff like this, a small country like hours would be 50x easier to manage than the US

[Cygnus]

Should it provide welfare? No.

People most of the time are in unfavourable situations because of their actions, it might lead to unfavourable behaviors for society. Plus, population control.

[Southside]

I completely disagree. If our country is based on equality then it should be enforced for everything, not just pick and choose. And I agree that we would need massive cuts, WE DO! We borrow 42 cents of every dollar we spend! THAT"S THE PROBLEM!! If we continue this way we will be bankrupt within 20 years. We will lose social security, medicare, medicaid because we won't be able to pay for them.

The good thing about the flat tax it that the rich can't deduct anything so they can't have a rate lower than the bulk of the middle class, and the poor still have to pay something. Everyone should have to pay something! Nobody should receive assistance from the governement and pay nothing. That is totally absurd to me!


56 Cents of every tax dollar goes to war/defense industry...

[Taryn98]

56 Cents of every tax dollar goes to war/defense industry...

That's incorrect.
In 2012 the US budget was $3.539 trillion
defense was: $670 billion, or 19%
Medicare/medicade was $802 billion. 23%
Social Security was $768 billion, 22%

but I will correct myself, the 2012 deficit borrowed 31 cents of every dollar

In 2011 we borrowed 42-43 cents of every dollar depending on your source.

[Harry Smith]

And I wonder why no one who's wealthy (as in billionaire status) lives in Britain :rolleyes

Here you state that no billionaire's live in Britain

Ohhh good job, you found 3! I can find 50+ who live in the US. Branson got most of his wealth from the US

Borrowing isn't good when you're $17 trillion in debt. A little country like Britain has no need to worry about big stuff like this, a small country like hours would be 50x easier to manage than the US

I found the first 3 that came up. So will you accept that you were wrong in saying that no billionaire's live in Britain?

And great, bash Britain about being a country with a small land mass, well done :) London is the financial capital of the world, just because we have a small country doesn't mean you can simply dismiss us. Your nationalist arrogance will get you nowhere in life.

For Britain's economy it's pretty much a case of Higher tax rates or more borrowing to improve our economy

[Cicero]

Here you state that no billionaire's live in Britain



I found the first 3 that came up. So will you accept that you were wrong in saying that no billionaire's live in Britain?

And great, bash Britain about being a country with a small land mass, well done :) London is the financial capital of the world, just because we have a small country doesn't mean you can simply dismiss us. Your nationalist arrogance will get you nowhere in life.

For Britain's economy it's pretty much a case of Higher tax rates or more borrowing to improve our economy

I'm wrong, there are 3 billionairs who live in England, while there are over 300+ who live in the US.

Actually, NYC is the most economically powerful city in the world.

[britishboy]

I'm wrong, there are 3 billionairs who live in England, while there are over 300+ who live in the US.

Actually, NYC is the most economically powerful city in the world.

nyc really isnt? and if you were so proud of your country you would be proud of its allies especially its closest allie, its people like you that make people dislike Americans

[Cicero]

nyc really isnt? and if you were so proud of your country you would be proud of its allies especially its closest allie, its people like you that make people dislike Americans

My point was that obviously the wealthy don't lik England's government system of socialism. I'm not really that proud of the US, I'm more patriotic for Italy, strangely. I've never up ported or hated England, even though I'm half English and my family comes from England. But I'm starting to dislike the English more and more thanks to people like you.

And yes, NYC is.

[britishboy]

My point was that obviously the wealthy don't lik England's government system of socialism. I'm not really that proud of the US, I'm more patriotic for Italy, strangely.

And yes, NYC is.

I like Australia best and look,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_centre

and nyc is great and if nyc is the best london is second. like britian has the SAS but you guys are the superpower see what I mean? and were the closest and most powerful allies in the world, be proud of that

[tovaris]

I believe in communism, so basicly everione who can work will work and all people (able or unable to work) should be provided for.

[Harry Smith]

I'm wrong, there are 3 billionairs who live in England, while there are over 300+ who live in the US.

Actually, NYC is the most economically powerful city in the world.

once again your failing to either read or simply understand. I never stated that London was the most powerful city did I? I said it was the Financial capital of the world by the Global Financial Centres Index and the worldwide centres of commerce

[Cicero]

I like Australia best and look,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_centre

and nyc is great and if nyc is the best london is second. like britian has the SAS but you guys are the superpower see what I mean? and were the closest and most powerful allies in the world, be proud of that

Well that Harry guy is acting arrogant about it, I don't have anything against Britain or anything like that. But you guys are acting like since whatever you guys are doing works in Britain, America should do it, and I was saying that obviously, powerful billionairs don't want to be there because of the high taxes and because whatever you are doing isn't encouraging billionaires to live there like they are in America.

[britishboy]

Well that Harry guy is acting arrogant about it, I don't have anything against Britain or anything like that. But you guys are acting like since whatever you guys are doing works in Britain, America should do it, and I was saying that obviously, powerful billionairs don't want to be there because of the high taxes and because whatever you are doing isn't encouraging billionaires to live there like they are in America.

actually America has a higher tax rate:D and its because there is more money to be made in America and us brits love America and its one of my favourate countries, dont judge us because of harry

[Danny_boi 16]

yes the government should provide the general welfare. However, I find that there needs to be moderation of course a government cannot baby their citizens and they can let their citizens entirely defend themselves.

[Southside]

That's incorrect.
In 2012 the US budget was $3.539 trillion
defense was: $670 billion, or 19%
Medicare/medicade was $802 billion. 23%
Social Security was $768 billion, 22%

but I will correct myself, the 2012 deficit borrowed 31 cents of every dollar

In 2011 we borrowed 42-43 cents of every dollar depending on your source.

My source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Os3q2p86Q

Also, I apologize...its not 56 cents, its 53...

[Taryn98]

My source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0Os3q2p86Q

Also, I apologize...its not 56 cents, its 53...

Thanks for providing a source. I got mine from the Congressional Budget Office 2012 report.

[Southside]

Thanks for providing a source. I got mine from the Congressional Budget Office 2012 report.

Regardless..Conservatives and Republicans want a "strong military", I laugh everytime I hear a Republican say something like that. Even if we cut back maybe 10% of our military budget we'd still be the most powerful military on Earth.

[Taryn98]

Regardless..Conservatives and Republicans want a "strong military", I laugh everytime I hear a Republican say something like that. Even if we cut back maybe 10% of our military budget we'd still be the most powerful military on Earth.

I agree with you on that thought. But we are the most targeted country on Earth and nobody can come to our aid, the way we can come to the aid of others. If we don't stay way ahead of the curve, we're doomed for failure in the future. But still, I agree that the military (amongst other things) can be cut. And truthfully, the sequester is cutting defense spending ~15% for the next decade.

[Jean Poutine]

I find a lot of people posting here egotistical to the point of sociopathy.

Government assistance saved my skin in more ways than one by providing me with a stable income when I needed it and publicly funded shrinks and social workers, as well as free/cheap meds, and here I am, paying income tax and contributing in turn for those less fortunate, being able to stand on my own two legs, and very proud of it. I recognize that there is more to the world than my own needs and I think what makes us human is this desire to leave nobody behind. Deers leave the sick to the wolves. We're better than that.

Not everybody is born equal and government welfare is there to redistribute the wealth to make everybody start on an equal footing. Over here, 50% of Quebecers pay no income tax, which I agree is a problem, but a flat tax is completely stupid and has been proven to not work. What needs to be done is to escalate the sliding rate from something like 5% to ~50%. 20% out of an income of 700$/month is much more meaningful from a human perspective than 20% out of 7000$/month. In the first case, the person will have to scrounge to even survive. What will happen to the second, he'll have to wait a little more to be able to afford a Ferrari? Shit. Take 5% of an income of 700$/month and 50% out of 7000$/month. Everybody should pay according to his ability to do so.

I hope that you folks have the courage of your convictions if you ever fall on hard times and do not apply for food stamps/medicaid/welfare. After all, it's your fault alone if you're in a situation where you might need it, right?

It's not the governments job to support people or give free healthcare. But it wouldn't be bad if the state provided affordable healthcare at a cost, like, where the people pay money to a government ran hospital. As long as its affordable to those who can't afford much.

Yeah, that's called publicly-funded health care. You do not really think it's completely free, do you?

But, overall, it should be left to business. The government should encourage competition, not weaken it. I agree with few parts of Obamacare.


The government should encourage competition where competition is warranted. It shouldn't encourage a tiered society and it should definitely not encourage putting a price on lives.

We shouldn't be spreading the wealth around, cause the wealthy worked hard for their money. Whether its working hard in terms of blood and sweat, or through stocks. If you say someone inherited their money, it doesn't mean they deserve less of it, it just means someone else worked hard so they could have a better life then they themselves did. Plus, the wealthy support the jobs in America. You don't see a hobo, or a janitor supplying jobs or owning a business.

The hobo or the janitor could very well become the next Steve Jobs without all the outsourcing to China if only they had a push in the right direction in the form of some help : affordable education, a way to get a temporary stable income, or whatever. The wisest man I've ever met in my life was homeless. I was homeless myself for a spell - I survived thank to, uh, government help, who provided free housing for me until I could get back on my feet, and now I'm in my last year of law school, off to become one of these wealthy assholes you adore. I can't believe you said wealth shouldn't be spread around because people worked for it. What about people that are unable (not unwilling) to work for it? Every life is important and nobody is born on an equal footing. Doesn't everybody deserve an equal shot at life, at least, as equal as we can make it?

Tell you what, the wealthy should pay through the nose, because it is the order brought by fair government that allowed them to amass so much wealth peacefully in the first place. Take the French Revolution, that didn't end well for the aristocracy, did it? Why doesn't it happen in civilized countries with a welfare net? How did France change after they were done cutting the heads off every rich little asshole who worked oh so hard for that money? Liberty, equality and fraternity. France became a welfare state. Everybody deserves freedom, and not having the means to live is a pretty big inhibitor to freedom. Equality, or equal chances, and fraternity, or the spirit of altruism, brotherhood, are the ways to get to true freedom for all. Wait, don't you conservatives always spout out that word, freedom? Why are you so gung-ho against social welfare, again?

why does the elderly lady not have money? you should be saving money towards retirement from the day you start working, nobody should pay for her if she didn't plan

why does the single mother working multiple jobs not have money? maybe she shouldn't have had her child, maybe she should have gotten better education. Those are not my responsibilities.

Or maybe the elderly lady got cancer and the cost of treatment blew through that retirement fund. Maybe the single mother was unable to afford better education due to being born in the wrong womb, or maybe she simply didn't have the capacity to. Maybe the baby was a rape baby and her religious convictions forced her to keep it. You do not know jack shit about what other people go through and it is not your place, thankfully, to judge who is in need and who isn't.

If you believe it is not your responsibility to take care of the weak, get a conscience check. It is the duty of every human being to leave no one behind to the best of his capacities. If it has to be forced upon a class of recalcitrant citizens, so be it.

I've been saving money for college for several years through babysitting and now that I'm 15 I'm planning on getting a summer job to make more. I don't plan on taking student loans and make responsible decisions so I don't have a kid until I'm ready. I can't help stupid or lazy.

Congratulations, you have the capacity to make money, not everybody does. Are their lives worth less than yours? What if you lose all that money you've been saving up for reason X, Y or Z, a reason that was completely out of your control? You seem blissfully unaware that life goes awry and that bills have no pity. The best planning can fail. No offense, but you come through as a snobbish, haughty spoiled brat, whether you are or not makes no difference on that impression.

And that is not my problem. I don't want anyone to help me and they shouldn't expect help from anyone either.


Newsflash : if I caught cancer right this minute, I would survive and my life wouldn't be ruined beyond repair by humongous hospital bills. What about you?

If my income tax payments can help you cure your cancer, then I'm glad. Social welfare is my problem. It's everyone's. It's what makes it, you know, social.

If people want to donate to charity, that's great thing and I support that, but you shouldn't be forced by the governemnt to support others for any reason.

The government is the only entity that can reliably administer social welfare. Privatizing social welfare is a non sequitur. It just does not make any kind of sense whatsoever. Every life is equal, everyone deserves a way to live, even the lame, the dumb, the stupid, the infirm. As I said, if some people have to be shoehorned into contributing, then so be it. It's the social contract we all sign in exchange for a relatively easy, secure and peaceful life. Keep in mind you could have easily been any of the people you think aren't your responsibility. You were born lucky.

[Cicero]

I find a lot of people posting here egotistical to the point of sociopathy.

Government assistance saved my skin in more ways than one by providing me with a stable income when I needed it and publicly funded shrinks and social workers, as well as free/cheap meds, and here I am, paying income tax and contributing in turn for those less fortunate, being able to stand on my own two legs, and very proud of it. I recognize that there is more to the world than my own needs and I think what makes us human is this desire to leave nobody behind. Deers leave the sick to the wolves. We're better than that.

Not everybody is born equal and government welfare is there to redistribute the wealth to make everybody start on an equal footing. Over here, 50% of Quebecers pay no income tax, which I agree is a problem, but a flat tax is completely stupid and has been proven to not work. What needs to be done is to escalate the sliding rate from something like 5% to ~50%. 20% out of an income of 700$/month is much more meaningful from a human perspective than 20% out of 7000$/month. In the first case, the person will have to scrounge to even survive. What will happen to the second, he'll have to wait a little more to be able to afford a Ferrari? Shit. Take 5% of an income of 700$/month and 50% out of 7000$/month. Everybody should pay according to his ability to do so.

I hope that you folks have the courage of your convictions if you ever fall on hard times and do not apply for food stamps/medicaid/welfare. After all, it's your fault alone if you're in a situation where you might need it, right?



Yeah, that's called publicly-funded health care. You do not really think it's completely free, do you?



The government should encourage competition where competition is warranted. It shouldn't encourage a tiered society and it should definitely not encourage putting a price on lives.



The hobo or the janitor could very well become the next Steve Jobs without all the outsourcing to China if only they had a push in the right direction in the form of some help : affordable education, a way to get a temporary stable income, or whatever. I can't believe you said wealth shouldn't be spread around because people worked for it. What about people that are unable (not unwilling) to work for it? Every life is important and nobody is born on an equal footing. Doesn't everybody deserve an equal shot at life, at least, as equal as we can make it?

Tell you what, the wealthy should pay through the nose, because it is the order brought by fair government that allowed them to amass so much wealth peacefully in the first place. Take the French Revolution, that didn't end well for the aristocracy, did it? Why doesn't it happen in civilized countries with a welfare net? How did France change after they were done cutting the heads off every rich little asshole who worked oh so hard for that money? Liberty, equality and fraternity. France became a welfare state. Everybody deserves freedom, and not having the means to live is a pretty big inhibitor to freedom. Equality, or equal chances, and fraternity, or the spirit of altruism, brotherhood, are the ways to get to true freedom for all. Wait, don't you conservatives always spout out that word, freedom? Why are you so gung-ho against social welfare, again?



Or maybe the elderly lady got cancer and the cost of treatment blew through that retirement fund. Maybe the single mother was unable to afford better education due to being born in the wrong womb, or maybe she simply didn't have the capacity to. Maybe the baby was a rape baby and her religious convictions forced her to keep it. You do not know jack shit about what other people go through and it is not your place, thankfully, to judge who is in need and who isn't.

If you believe it is not your responsibility to take care of the weak, get a conscience check. It is the duty of every human being to leave no one behind to the best of his capacities. If it has to be forced upon a class of recalcitrant citizens, so be it.



Congratulations, you have the capacity to make money, not everybody does. Are their lives worth less than yours? What if you lose all that money you've been saving up for reason X, Y or Z, a reason that was completely out of your control? You seem blissfully unaware that life goes awry and that bills have no pity. The best planning can fail. No offense, but you come through as a snobbish, haughty spoiled brat, whether you are or not makes no difference on that impression.



Newsflash : if I caught cancer right this minute, I would survive and my life wouldn't be ruined beyond repair by humongous hospital bills. What about you?

If my income tax payments can help you cure your cancer, then I'm glad. Social welfare is my problem. It's everyone's. It's what makes it, you know, social.



The government is the only entity that can reliably administer social welfare. Privatizing social welfare is a non sequitur. It just does not make any kind of sense whatsoever. Every life is equal, everyone deserves a way to live, even the lame, the dumb, the stupid, the infirm. As I said, if some people have to be shoehorned into contributing, then so be it. It's the social contract we all sign in exchange for a relatively easy, secure and peaceful life.

The government didnt give them their money, they earned it through blood and sweat. The wealthy shouldn't be unfairly taxed more than a middle class person just to support the local hobo. Taxing the wealthy more is punishing them, and it's discrimination.

If a wealthy person wants to help save lives for those who have cancer, it should be a choice. It shouldn't be forced. Frankly, if I was wealthy and forced to save other people's lives, I would be to happy. Not only cause I wouldn't get recognition, but because I'm being forced to do it at my own expense, not their family, friends, or roommates expense.

If I want to help save cancer, it shouldnt be the governments choice, but mine. Hell, if I found the cure for cancer, it'd be my right to determine whether or not other people can have the cure, I could either keep it to just my company, and make a butt load of money, or I could send it to other companies to help eradicate the disease. Either way it should be my choice, because it was through MY research, and MY funding (for the record, if such a situation ever arose, I would probably keep the cure to my company only for about 5-10 years, then I'd sell it to other companies, 5-10 years would be long enough for me to make a shit ton of money).

[Jean Poutine]

The government didnt give them their money, they earned it through blood and sweat. The wealthy shouldn't be unfairly taxed more than a middle class person just to support the local hobo. Taxing the wealthy more is punishing them, and it's discrimination.

The government gave them the necessary conditions to amass wealth through order and security to which social welfare programs contribute. Are there a lot of billionaires in Somalia? Millionaires? I didn't think so.

Taxing the wealthy more is making things fair. It's the exact opposite of discrimination. Why should somebody born out of a given womb have a exponentially, incomparably better life than somebody born out of another womb? Give me a single good reason.

If a wealthy person wants to help save lives for those who have cancer, it should be a choice. It shouldn't be forced. Frankly, if I was wealthy and forced to save other people's lives, I would be to happy. Not only cause I wouldn't get recognition, but because I'm being forced to do it at my own expense, not their family, friends, or roommates expense.

Recognition?!? You are an egocentric, selfish asshole. You want to be recognized for your good deeds else you won't do any? Oh my fucking God. How can you even stand checking yourself out in the mirror without puking?

If you had a single strand of moral fiber in you, you would selflessly give a part of your wealth for another who is in need, especially as the more wealth you get, the less of an issue it is to give some away. Unfortunately, moral fiber is often incompatible with becoming wealthy in the first place, hence why people have to be forced.

If I want to help save cancer, it shouldnt be the governments choice, but mine. Hell, if I found the cure for cancer, it'd be my right to determine whether or not other people can have the cure, I could either keep it to just my company, and make a butt load of money, or I could send it to other companies to help eradicate the disease. Either way it should be my choice, because it was through MY research, and MY funding (for the record, if such a situation ever arose, I would probably keep the cure to my company only for about 5-10 years, then I'd sell it to other companies, 5-10 years would be long enough for me to make a shit ton of money).

Or was it, you inconsiderate prick? What entity has made untold sacrifices to ensure that you even get in a position where you can do research for the cure to cancer and with what did it fund it? Hint : the government and the income taxes paid by half the population, genius. You think people pay their own research? You got any idea how much scientific research even costs? See much break-through research being done in Somalia? The government subsidizes your research, your education, which is a form of social welfare and furthermore, scientific organizations can get tax-exempt status through the IRS in the States. You owe society almost fucking everything so give back to the cancer-ridden neighbor who paid 30% of his 40k salary every year to get you where you are.

At this point you're so ignorant that you must be some sort of corporation cock-sucking epic troll. I just can't believe you're for real.

[Cicero]

The government gave them the necessary conditions to amass wealth through order and security to which social welfare programs contribute. Are there a lot of billionaires in Somalia? Millionaires? I didn't think so.

Taxing the wealthy more is making things fair. It's the exact opposite of discrimination. Why should somebody born out of a given womb have a exponentially, incomparably better life than somebody born out of another womb? Give me a single good reason.



Recognition?!? You are an egocentric, selfish asshole. You want to be recognized for your good deeds else you won't do any? Oh my fucking God. How can you even stand checking yourself out in the mirror without puking?

If you had a single strand of moral fiber in you, you would selflessly give a part of your wealth for another who is in need, especially as the more wealth you get, the less of an issue it is to give some away. Unfortunately, moral fiber is often incompatible with becoming wealthy in the first place, hence why people have to be forced.



Or was it, you inconsiderate prick? What entity has made untold sacrifices to ensure that you even get in a position where you can do research for the cure to cancer and with what did it fund it? Hint : the government and the income taxes paid by half the population, genius. You think people pay their own research? You got any idea how much scientific research even costs? See much break-through research being done in Somalia? The government subsidizes your research, your education, which is a form of social welfare and furthermore, scientific organizations can get tax-exempt status through the IRS in the States. You owe society almost fucking everything so give back to the cancer-ridden neighbor who paid 30% of his 40k salary every year to get you where you are.

At this point you're so ignorant that you must be some sort of corporation cock-sucking epic troll. I just can't believe you're for real.
It's discrimination.

If it were fair, everyone would be taxed 15% or whatever. Everyone would be taxed the same percentage. That's what would be fair. Someone who's wealthy owes no one. Except for themselves and business partners and customers. That's it. They don't owe some hobo for becoming a multi million or billionaire, they don't owe you, they owe no one.

Why should somebody born out of a given womb have a exponentially, incomparably better life than somebody born out of another womb?
Because them or their family worked hard so their kid can have a better life, whereas the other family (probably) didnt.

If you had a single strand of moral fiber in you, you would selflessly give a part of your wealth for another who is in need, especially as the more wealth you get, the less of an issue it is to give some away. Unfortunately, moral fiber is often incompatible with becoming wealthy in the first place, hence why people have to be forced.


That's a fucking joke^ :lol:
http://givingpledge.org/
There's ^ a list of all e billionairs who pledge to give away more than 3/4 of their wealth to the world and charities.

It shouldn't be forced to give charities, that's what religion is for. If the government forces the wealthy to give to charity, then they should force the middle class to give money. Of course you wouldn't like that, cause people like you think you middle classers have it so hard and you shouldn't be forced to give to charity.

Do you or your friends give away a part of your income to charities? Probably not. Well, a cording to you. People like you should also give a part of their income to charities.

[Danny_boi 16]

It's discrimination.

If it were fair, everyone would be taxed 15% or whatever. Everyone would be taxed the same percentage. That's what would be fair. Someone who's wealthy owes no one. Except for themselves and business partners and customers. That's it. They don't owe some hobo for becoming a multi million or billionaire, they don't owe you, they owe no one.


Because them or their family worked hard so their kid can have a better life, whereas the other family (probably) didnt.



That's a fucking joke^ :lol:
http://givingpledge.org/
There's ^ a list of all e billionairs who pledge to give away more than 3/4 of their wealth to the world and charities.

It shouldn't be forced to give charities, that's what religion is for. If the government forces the wealthy to give to charity, then they should force the middle class to give money. Of course you wouldn't like that, cause people like you think you middle classers have it so hard and you shouldn't be forced to give to charity.

Do you or your friends give away a part of your income to charities? Probably not. Well, a cording to you. People like you should also give a part of their income to charities.

The middle class already give their money to the federal government. Its called TAX. The wealthy also pay tax; however, they pay at a lower tax rate. And if a person donates to charity they get a tax deduction, I know that because my family does that. And tax deductions are all around for all income tax brackets.

[Jean Poutine]

It's discrimination.

If it were fair, everyone would be taxed 15% or whatever. Everyone would be taxed the same percentage. That's what would be fair. Someone who's wealthy owes no one. Except for themselves and business partners and customers. That's it. They don't owe some hobo for becoming a multi million or billionaire, they don't owe you, they owe no one.

Someone who's wealthy owes the social contract inherent to being born in society for everything they've got, and it is only fair that they pay back for the privilege. You are incredibly brainwashed.

Because them or their family worked hard so their kid can have a better life, whereas the other family (probably) didnt.

Oh yeah? Wanna have a go at that single mother working two jobs, 90 hours a week to put her kid through just a barely average life? Isn't she working hard enough? Tell that to her face, I dare you, I double, triple dare you. Tell her she isn't working hard enough to be wealthy, you twat.

That's a fucking joke^ :lol:
http://givingpledge.org/
There's ^ a list of all e billionairs who pledge to give away more than 3/4 of their wealth to the world and charities.

As if they are not getting a corresponding tax break. You do know giving to charity equals a tax break, right? It's far from selfless. It's a publicity stunt.

BTW, notice how short the list is? Probably not, as blinded by corporate cum as you are. One too many money shots bro, go clean your eyes.

It shouldn't be forced to give charities, that's what religion is for. If the government forces the wealthy to give to charity, then they should force the middle class to give money. Of course you wouldn't like that, cause people like you think you middle classers have it so hard and you shouldn't be forced to give to charity.


Uh, the middle class IS forced. It's called income tax. You do realize income tax is basically institutionalized charity?

You know what the joke is? I'm not even middle class, or from a middle class background. I come from a working class family (raised by...drumroll...a single mother!) and as a student, I am poor enough to fit into the working class. For full disclosure, I pay 16% income tax because I currently have a high salary and it's deducted straight from my paycheck, but it's a contract job meaning I won't have it for long. Man, sucks to be you when you assume all this shit, does it?

Do you or your friends give away a part of your income to charities? Probably not. Well, a cording to you. People like you should also give a part of their income to charities.

In addition to paying income tax, I do give to private charity, and furthermore, I do not even ask for a receipt to get a tax break when I do. Kindly stop assuming things about me. I have the courage to uphold my convictions in everyday life. We'll see if you do the same should you fall on hard times. I bet you'll be thanking the stars that people like me exist.

[Cicero]

Someone who's wealthy owes the social contract inherent to being born in society for everything they've got, and it is only fair that they pay back for the privilege. You are incredibly brainwashed.



Oh yeah? Wanna have a go at that single mother working two jobs, 90 hours a week to put her kid through just a barely average life? Isn't she working hard enough? Tell that to her face, I dare you, I double, triple dare you. Tell her she isn't working hard enough to be wealthy, you twat.



As if they are not getting a corresponding tax break. You do know giving to charity equals a tax break, right? It's far from selfless. It's a publicity stunt.

BTW, notice how short the list is? Probably not, as blinded by corporate cum as you are. One too many money shots bro, go clean your eyes.



Uh, the middle class IS forced. It's called income tax. You do realize income tax is basically institutionalized charity?

You know what the joke is? I'm not even middle class, or from a middle class background. I come from a working class family (raised by...drumroll...a single mother!) and as a student, I am poor enough to fit into the working class. For full disclosure, I pay 16% income tax because I currently have a high salary and it's deducted straight from my paycheck, but it's a contract job meaning I won't have it for long. Man, sucks to be you when you assume all this shit, does it?



In addition to paying income tax, I do give to private charity, and furthermore, I do not even ask for a receipt to get a tax break when I do. Kindly stop assuming things about me. I have the courage to uphold my convictions in everyday life. We'll see if you do the same should you fall on hard times. I bet you'll be thanking the stars that people like me exist.

You probably wouldn't get much of a tax break. But it's good you give.

Bill Gates swears that he is going to give the majority of his wealth away, which would probably be $60 billion (he's only give $10 mill to his kids) no tax break in the world could make that big of a donation a financial benefit to the family. They'd probably only get a few hundred thousand dollar tax break (which is small considered he makes hundreds of millions a year). So it's pretty stupid that you think they're giving all their wealth away for some stupid tax break. Paying taxes isn't just for charities. It's for education, government, etc.

You're brainwashed by the working class, most of the working class hate the wealthy, despite the fact that the wealthy provides the majority of the working class Jobs. Which is pretty funny that you people hate the people who employ you so you can keep your houses and cars and crap like that.

To you guys
Rich=evil

To me
Rich=job providers, job creators, geniuses (ex. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Ken Kutagari, etc.)

Just look at what caused the Great Depression, not only was it cause the world was suffering, but because stock holders (who, FYI, consists of the wealthy) all pulled their money out of the stock exchange at once, which caused everything to collapse. I know you are to biased to see why they pulled it out, so I will tell you why, they pulled it out because their stocks went down, by a little bit, so, because it was a new system, they freaked out because they thought they were gonna lose all their money.

[Jean Poutine]

You probably wouldn't get much of a tax break. But it's good you give.

Full amount of the donation.

Bill Gates swears that he is going to give the majority of his wealth away, which would probably be $60 billion (he's only give $10 mill to his kids) no tax break in the world could make that big of a donation a financial benefit to the family. They'd probably only get a few hundred thousand dollar tax break (which is small considered he makes hundreds of millions a year). So it's pretty stupid that you think they're giving all their wealth away for some stupid tax break. Paying taxes isn't just for charities. It's for education, government, etc.

Bill Gates is a rare exception. He is one man. What about all the others?

In Quebec, a charitable donation tax remittance is 53% of the amount up to 75% of your net income. It is a big amount.

It's not just for charity but social welfare programs are institutionalized charities.

You're brainwashed by the working class, most of the working class hate the wealthy, despite the fact that the wealthy provides the majority of the working class Jobs. Which is pretty funny that you people hate the people who employ you so you can keep your houses and cars and crap like that.

Dude, in every fucking topic you've ever posted in, I don't know if you've noticed, but you often come out so nutty that nobody even half-insane could agree with you. It is not very hard to imagine who's brainwashed here. I have never seen anyone, ever, guzzle so much Kool-Aid as you.

Furthermore, I was raised to be, drumroll again, wealthy and successful. I'm the first one to attend university in my family, much less a program like law that I am very good at. I will become wealthy, and once I do I will do everything I've ever believed in. I'm far above hating a person or a class, I'm at a question of principles, and it abhors me when they are violated. You are not wealthy and I dislike what you stand for all the same because it breaks everything I believe in. I dislike you personally because you're a borderline sociopath. See the difference?

Also, I work for the government. The wealthy don't employ me, bud, society does. I can defend my ideals all I want. Ultimate freedom, and I earned it.

To you guys
Rich=evil

To me
Rich=job providers, job creators, geniuses (ex. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Ken Kutagari, etc.)

You are even brainwashed in your perception of my views. It's cute. Since when can a class of people be evil?

Just look at what caused the Great Depression, not only was it cause the world was suffering, but because stock holders (who, FYI, consists of the wealthy) all pulled their money out of the stock exchange at once, which caused everything to collapse. I know you are to biased to see why they pulled it out, so I will tell you why, they pulled it out because their stocks went down, by a little bit, so, because it was a new system, they freaked out because they thought they were gonna lose all their money.

Man, you are rambling and way off topic. Assuming this is true, doesn't it scare you even a little bit that a few assholes have the power to quickly send a whole country into depression, making life miserable for the common folk? Jesus, dude.

[Cicero]

Full amount of the donation.



Bill Gates is a rare exception. He is one man. What about all the others?

It's not just for charity but social welfare programs are institutionalized charities.



Dude, in every fucking topic you've ever posted in, I don't know if you've noticed, but you often come out so nutty that nobody even half-insane could agree with you. It is not very hard to imagine who's brainwashed here. I have never seen anyone, ever, guzzle so much Kool-Aid as you.

Furthermore, I was raised to be, drumroll again, wealthy and successful. I'm the first one to attend university in my family, much less a program like law that I am very good at. I will become wealthy, and once I do I will do everything I've ever believed in. I'm far above hating a person or a class, I'm at a question of principles, and it abhors me when they are violated. You are not wealthy and I dislike what you stand for all the same because it breaks everything I believe in. I dislike you personally because you're a borderline sociopath. See the difference?

Also, I work for the government. The wealthy don't employ me, bud, society does. I can defend my ideals all I want. Ultimate freedom, and I earned it.



You are even brainwashed in your perception of my views. It's cute. Since when can a class of people be evil?



Man, you are rambling and way off topic. Assuming this is true, doesn't it scare you even a little bit that a few assholes have the power to quickly send a whole country into depression, making life miserable for the common folk? Jesus, dude.



So your parents are wealthy and successful? Or you just hope they raised you to be wealthy and successful? There's a big difference between you coming from that type of family, and you hoping you can make that of your family. I'm assuming your parents are middle/lower class, because if they were upper class, I would be shocked that you would say such a thing (the bolded part). Once again, you are so brainwashed you think that everyone who is wealthy is an asshole. Yes, it would scare me that so much power can be held with someone who is corrupt, powerful, and wealthy. But aside from Obama, it isn't (well, he's only the bolded parts of that sentence).

What do you mean by sociopath? Does it mean stuff like compassion? Cause if so, it's good to abide by the "It's not personal, it's only business" saying in business. When you say sociopath, does it mean something like feeling bad for firing a hardworking mother of 4? Or firing a single mom from her only job? Cause if she isn't performing to the standards I have set for the others, her ass would be out of my business and I wouldn't really feel bad. Currently, I would feel bad 25%, but soon, I hope to feel bad 0%.

Everyone else on that list is like bill gates, so it's not a rare exception.

[Jean Poutine]

The majority of people are employed by the wealthy, I never said I was wealthy or not. But since you are condemning me to be of middle class, I'm not, I'm upper class. My family isn't of 1% of America, but my dad makes well over $150,000 a year and has a few million shares in a technology and mining company. I just recently inherited 250,000 shares from my dads company for my birthday. So no, I'm not middle class.

Wow good for you, way to masturbate your ego there. Did I ever make any assumption about your situation? No, I didn't. I never "condemned" you for being middle class, all I said is that you were wrong in me being middle class. That paragraph was entirely free boasting. You're the one throwing assumptions about my economic situation left and right. Did you sleep off reading comprehension or something?

So your parents are wealthy and successful? Or you just hope they raised you to be wealthy and successful? There's a big difference between you coming from that type of family, and you hoping you can make that of your family. I'm assuming your parents are middle/lower class, because if they were upper class, I would be shocked that you would say such a thing (the bolded part). Once again, you are so brainwashed you think that everyone who is wealthy is an asshole. Yes, it would scare me that so much power can be held with someone who is corrupt, powerful, and wealthy. But aside from Obama, it isn't (well, he's only the bolded parts of that sentence).

Not that it is any of your business, but my great-grandfather was a shipping/overseas commerce magnate and my grandfather served as an officer in the army before managing veteran hospitals. I know wealth, it just didn't have the courtesy to trickle down on me. My mother was raised as upper class, raised me as working class. By the time I was born, the family's money was dilapidated by a few irresponsible dickwads. Even so, I never lacked anything, thanks to my mom's business acumen. We lived much better than our income would suggest - having zero debt does that to people.

I was raised to be hardworking, unfailingly honest and with a sense of initiative. The three qualities that are key to success, hence why I am where I am, without riding on anybody's coattails, and I'm only going up, back where I belong. I have nothing against being wealthy per se - what you do with that cash, what most people do with this cash is what gets my goat.

I never said that everybody who was wealthy was an asshole. If so, my grandparents were big assholes. I said you were, and you are, and it has nothing to do with wealth but all about you being a detestable person. Stop putting words in my mouth and stop assuming things about me. This is quickly turning senseless.

What do you mean by sociopath? Does it mean stuff like compassion? Cause if so, it's good to abide by the "It's not personal, it's only business" saying in business. When you say sociopath, does it mean something like feeling bad for firing a hardworking mother of 4? Or firing a single mom from her only job? Cause if she isn't performing to the standards I have set for the others, her ass would be out of my business and I wouldn't really feel bad. Currently, I would feel bad 25%, but soon, I hope to feel bad 0%.

Yes, you are a sociopath. You care about nobody but yourself and your profit margin, that much is self evident from what you post. I still remember that topic you made boasting about the rich that you had closed once you got gang-raped for your archaic, insane and downright clinically stupid views on employee's rights. I have not forgotten. 'twas funny though, having it closed by a mod even if it stayed relatively civil. You don't even have the courage of your convictions.

You know nothing about the situation said single mother is in and why she's performing below par. You'd fire somebody when a kick in the ass and some understanding would do much better? You have no business sense, if you're going to go down that road. Being owed favors is everything. You aren't going to keep a lot of people. BTW, it's illegal to fire people without a gradation of sanctions (at least here, thankfully), so whether you want it or not, you'll have to be human to a degree.

You have to have human understanding to be a good employer. Do you know how's called the degree where you learn to balance the rights and interests of employers and employees? It's not called business, it's called industrial relations, emphasizing the interpersonal. If you want to be a sad little person without the warmth that is compassion, go ahead. You'll be the kind of boss everyone reviles and productivity will go down. In every job I've had where I've had a boss like you, employees did fuck all all day every day and most smoked weed on the job because it was such a fucking shithole to work in. Karma's that bitch, man.

Now excuse me while I go to my public service, unionized job where team leaders actually know how to manage personnel so productivity shoots through the roof.

Everyone else on that list is like bill gates, so it's not a rare exception.

40 names out of thousands and thousands, most doing it I bet for a publicity stunt to grab suckers, and you fell right for it. I rest my case, man.

[britishboy]

Jean Poutine you have no clue, the higher class is needed to invest and create jobs so stop hating us and Cicero your right and did he call you middle class haha:p

[Cicero]

Wow good for you, way to masturbate your ego there. Did I ever make any assumption about your situation? No, I didn't. I never "condemned" you for being middle class, all I said is that you were wrong in me being middle class. That paragraph was entirely free boasting. You're the one throwing assumptions about my economic situation left and right. Did you sleep off reading comprehension or something?



Not that it is any of your business, but my great-grandfather was a shipping/overseas commerce magnate and my grandfather served as an officer in the army before managing veteran hospitals. I know wealth, it just didn't have the courtesy to trickle down on me. My mother was raised as upper class, raised me as working class. By the time I was born, the family's money was dilapidated by a few irresponsible dickwads. Even so, I never lacked anything, thanks to my mom's business acumen. We lived much better than our income would suggest - having zero debt does that to people.

I was raised to be hardworking, unfailingly honest and with a sense of initiative. The three qualities that are key to success, hence why I am where I am, without riding on anybody's coattails, and I'm only going up, back where I belong. I have nothing against being wealthy per se - what you do with that cash, what most people do with this cash is what gets my goat.

I never said that everybody who was wealthy was an asshole. If so, my grandparents were big assholes. I said you were, and you are, and it has nothing to do with wealth but all about you being a detestable person. Stop putting words in my mouth and stop assuming things about me. This is quickly turning senseless.



Yes, you are a sociopath. You care about nobody but yourself and your profit margin, that much is self evident from what you post. I still remember that topic you made boasting about the rich that you had closed once you got gang-raped for your archaic, insane and downright clinically stupid views on employee's rights. I have not forgotten. 'twas funny though, having it closed by a mod even if it stayed relatively civil. You don't even have the courage of your convictions.

You know nothing about the situation said single mother is in and why she's performing below par. You'd fire somebody when a kick in the ass and some understanding would do much better? You have no business sense, if you're going to go down that road. Being owed favors is everything. You aren't going to keep a lot of people. BTW, it's illegal to fire people without a gradation of sanctions (at least here, thankfully), so whether you want it or not, you'll have to be human to a degree.

You have to have human understanding to be a good employer. Do you know how's called the degree where you learn to balance the rights and interests of employers and employees? It's not called business, it's called industrial relations, emphasizing the interpersonal. If you want to be a sad little person without the warmth that is compassion, go ahead. You'll be the kind of boss everyone reviles and productivity will go down. In every job I've had where I've had a boss like you, employees did fuck all all day every day and most smoked weed on the job because it was such a fucking shithole to work in. Karma's that bitch, man.

Now excuse me while I go to my public service, unionized job where team leaders actually know how to manage personnel so productivity shoots through the roof.



40 names out of thousands and thousands, most doing it I bet for a publicity stunt to grab suckers, and you fell right for it. I rest my case, man.

You are not wealthy and I dislike what you stand for all the same because it breaks everything I believe in

You said that, so I responded with what I had said.

doesn't it scare you even a little bit that a few assholes have the power to quickly send a whole country into depression
That's what you said ^ and that insinuates that everyone wealthy is an asshole. What gives you proof that stockholders during the Great Depression were assholes? Exactly, you have no proof. You're just blabbering foolishness.


I know how to encourage high performance by employees, you provide incentives, and if they don't live up to those set standards, you replace them. That's called business, money comes first in business, that's why you're going to be a crappy businessman, you'll care to much about the employees to the point that you'll risk losing profit, I know this is the case by the following
You care about nobody but yourself and your profit margin, that much is self evident from what you post

In business, you're not running a charity, you're running a business that needs to make money. If an employee is lacking in productivity, you get rid of them.

what you do with that cash, what most people do with this cash is what gets my goat

Sorry, but what people do with their wealth is non of your business. If I wanna purchase a $1,000 bottle of wine, I will (which my parents have done), if I wanna spend $10,000 on a piece of art, I will. That exact thinking right there that you have will want to make billionaires and millionaires run for the hills, they don't want anyone telling them how to spend their money and its people like you who will scare them off to other countries that actually favor the wealthy

If you want to be a sad little person without the warmth that is compassion, go ahead
Ill care about people, ill do many things to help people. But when it comes to business, if they're making me lose money, they're out of my business.

The three qualities that are key to success, hence why I am where I am, without riding on anybody's coattails, and I'm only going up, back where I belong
That's cute ^ but things don't always work the way you think. It might workout to favor you, and it might not. Don't get your hopes to high until it actually happens, another thing that you should learn to be someone successful, and another thing that you lack. Good businessman don't talk about or brag about projects that are in the working, they only talk or brag about it once it happens.

You don't know how to run a business, but a charity. As it seems from these posts.

Oh, and ill be nice in business. But I'll also have an HR department to handle most of it, I will provide incentives. I won't be an asshole, I will give someone 1 chance, not 2 or 3 though. But 1. If they're a valuable employee, I might even give them 2 or 3. But at the end, it's about the money.

I was raised to be hardworking, unfailingly honest and with a sense of initiative
You may be surprised to hear this because you live in fairyland. But that isn't exactly the trait of a wealthy, businessman or entrepreneur or anything. To become wealthy and successful, you have to be willing to lie and stomp on feet. You can't be kind, or polite, or honest all the time in business. I'm not saying you can't be kind or polite or nice to employees, but other businessmen, or competitors. How do you think Frank Sinatra came to be? He smashed on people's hopes and dreams, he forced record companies to accept him, sure he was a nice, kind, and polite guy. Yet with his competition and business, he was stone cold and he became one of the most successful artists in history. Bill Gates definitely stole ideas from his competitors and stomped on feet to get where he is.

[britishboy]

You said that, so I responded with what I had said.


That's what you said ^ and that insinuates that everyone wealthy is an asshole. What gives you proof that stockholders during the Great Depression were assholes? Exactly, you have no proof. You're just blabbering foolishness.

ignore him most people in the lower classes think were evil and heartless but were not si dont listen to him

[Cicero]

ignore him most people in the lower classes think were evil and heartless but were not si dont listen to him

People like that are just bitter, it's pretty common here. My one friend says that her dad literally hates cars like Mercedes and Lexus, and he even hates Nike (cause its to big of a brand). If he could afford stuff like that, I can assure you that he wouldn't hate those type of cars.

People like that are bitter about how they can't afford luxuries like that. I'm not saying everyone who is middle or Lower class are like that, it just seems common.

[britishboy]

People like that are just bitter, it's pretty common here. My one friend says that her dad literally hates cars like Mercedes and Lexus, and he even hates Nike (cause its to big of a brand). If he could afford stuff like that, I can assure you that he wouldn't hate those type of cars.

People like that are bitter about how they can't afford luxuries like that. I'm not saying everyone who is middle or Lower class are like that, it just seems common.

exactly and Aston Martins are awesome but Rolls Royces are the daddy:D the middle class understands more as they are more intelligent but still are bitter, its the same reason people support communism

[Sugaree]

ignore him most people in the lower classes think were evil and heartless but were not si dont listen to him

Hey, someone said something to me that I don't like! Better ignore him and keep my nose up!

[britishboy]

Hey, someone said something to me that I don't like! Better ignore him and keep my nose up!

just quit arguing its really off topic

[Jean Poutine]

People like that are just bitter, it's pretty common here. My one friend says that her dad literally hates cars like Mercedes and Lexus, and he even hates Nike (cause its to big of a brand). If he could afford stuff like that, I can assure you that he wouldn't hate those type of cars.

People like that are bitter about how they can't afford luxuries like that. I'm not saying everyone who is middle or Lower class are like that, it just seems common.

Yes, I am bitter because I can't afford luxury cars (hint : I can't drive), or overpriced shoes made by Chinese boys in slave-like labor conditions (but I can afford Asics, whose company at least have the decency to not be publicly caught dealing with Asian slave-masters).

Why would I hate objects? They're just that, objects. I find spending 200k on something that at the end of the day will just rust like any other car and that functions like any other car a little stupid, but that's not my choice to make. Wealthy people can well buy anything they like, after making their just contribution to government coffers, for all the social contract inherent to any society gave them the opportunity to do.

Oh, can you afford luxuries? With your own money, that is, not your family's.

That's what you said ^ and that insinuates that everyone wealthy is an asshole. What gives you proof that stockholders during the Great Depression were assholes? Exactly, you have no proof. You're just blabbering foolishness.

I'll answer that at the end, the irony is too good to be true.

I know how to encourage high performance by employees, you provide incentives, and if they don't live up to those set standards, you replace them. That's called business, money comes first in business, that's why you're going to be a crappy businessman, you'll care to much about the employees to the point that you'll risk losing profit, I know this is the case by the following

If I have to sell my soul to do business, I don't want to do business. Plenty of businesses are successful where the employees are treated nicely and humanely. As I said, I still remember the stupid shit you said about employee's rights. You have absolutely nothing to teach me on that front. You got spanked until your ass was red and you went to the mods to have the topic closed because you were just that embarrassed.

By the by, I missed that part about the wealthy creating jobs. You do know that a majority of people are employed by small to medium businesses, right? Whose owners aren't that wealthy?

In business, you're not running a charity, you're running a business that needs to make money. If an employee is lacking in productivity, you get rid of them.

Not before giving him/her a chance to recover. Employee loyalty is everything. Have fun negotiating with union leaders showing up when your employees are tired of getting treated like shit and gang up on you.

Sorry, but what people do with their wealth is non of your business. If I wanna purchase a $1,000 bottle of wine, I will (which my parents have done), if I wanna spend $10,000 on a piece of art, I will. That exact thinking right there that you have will want to make billionaires and millionaires run for the hills, they don't want anyone telling them how to spend their money and its people like you who will scare them off to other countries that actually favor the wealthy

Their money was earned on the condition of a stable state providing not only welfare to keep the lower classes happy, but the peace and security inherent by policing, the army and the rule of law. We owe everything we have to the existence of regulations and the means to enforce them. If you can't figure out why that means the wealthy should rightly pay more, you're hopeless. It is not anyone's place to decide how the wealthy spend their money, after they've given their contribution.

I like the "which my parents have done". You like to show off, don't you? Show off your own accomplishments, first rule of not being so detestable. It's okay though, I paid 200$ for a pipe (to smoke weed with, ofc) once. I am not devoid of empty luxuries myself.

Ill care about people, ill do many things to help people. But when it comes to business, if they're making me lose money, they're out of my business.

So basically you're going to be a two-faced twat. Charity starts at home.

That's cute ^ but things don't always work the way you think. It might workout to favor you, and it might not. Don't get your hopes to high until it actually happens, another thing that you should learn to be someone successful, and another thing that you lack. Good businessman don't talk about or brag about projects that are in the working, they only talk or brag about it once it happens.


Bro, I'm graduating out of law school with a 3.7 GPA. My future is assured. I've had offers from several big firms. Have your pubic hairs grown out yet?

You don't know how to run a business, but a charity. As it seems from these posts.

And your point is?

Oh, and ill be nice in business. But I'll also have an HR department to handle most of it, I will provide incentives. I won't be an asshole, I will give someone 1 chance, not 2 or 3 though. But 1. If they're a valuable employee, I might even give them 2 or 3. But at the end, it's about the money.

I can't wait for all the labor lawsuits you'll have on your back. Oral warning, written warning, suspension, then getting fired. Firing someone is the capital offense of industrial relations. Courts won't let you do it until you've gone through that so called "gradation of sanctions", unless they've done something serious. You don't know anything 'bout the real world, it seems. It's not all about the money. Never forget that at the end of the day, it is your employees racking up your cash. Without them you are nothing. It behooves you to treat them like humans going through life, not numbers with a file.

You may be surprised to hear this because you live in fairyland. But that isn't exactly the trait of a wealthy, businessman or entrepreneur or anything. To become wealthy and successful, you have to be willing to lie and stomp on feet. You can't be kind, or polite, or honest all the time in business. I'm not saying you can't be kind or polite or nice to employees, but other businessmen, or competitors. How do you think Frank Sinatra came to be? He smashed on people's hopes and dreams, he forced record companies to accept him, sure he was a nice, kind, and polite guy. Yet with his competition and business, he was stone cold and he became one of the most successful artists in history. Bill Gates definitely stole ideas from his competitors and stomped on feet to get where he is.

You are saying this then earlier you said I had no proof for calling stock brokers "assholes". Guess what, lying and stomping on feet is the hallmark of an asshole. There is a reason why almost every wealthy businessman and politicians can be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder. You are willing to sell yourself for the dollar. That's the saddest thing I've ever heard. I kinda pity you.

You seem to have a habit of shooting yourself in the foot, another trait not desired by businessmen. You also have a nasty habit of raising strawmen, never directly answering questions and beating down on the strawmen you set up for me instead. During all of this "debate", you have shrimped, changed subjects at least 500 times and only rarely answered anything I directly said to you. You are like a slippery fish, a politician caught red-handed with his hand in the candy bag, or perhaps receiving a sloppy blowjob from an ugly Jewish intern. I won't deny that I've shot a few ad hominems myself, but that is because you are sincerely, in all the time I've spend on this fucking board, about the most unlikable person I've ever seen. You're like one of these fat fish in Jamie Johnson's documentary, exact same mentality. That being said, I am busy actually contributing to society and creating my own coattails for others to ride on instead of burning my father's money. We are done here.

Jean Poutine you have no clue, the higher class is needed to invest and create jobs so stop hating us and Cicero your right and did he call you middle class haha:p

I'm scared, I got told by a 14 year old still buying candy with his mommy's money. Be a classist douchebag when you can stand on your own merit.

This kind of behavior is why people hate you. You're act like little scared pussies and raise up your nose at everybody who has a go at the privileged class, and raise up class friction. This is called classism. Criticism does not equals hate. I am too good to "hate" a class of people. You think I hate the upper class because I advocate that they pay a just part to society? You seriously think this is hate? You get a clue, bro.

[Cicero]

Yes, I am bitter because I can't afford luxury cars (hint : I can't drive), or overpriced shoes made by Chinese boys in slave-like labor conditions (but I can afford Asics, whose company at least have the decency to not be publicly caught dealing with Asian slave-masters).

Why would I hate objects? They're just that, objects. I find spending 200k on something that at the end of the day will just rust like any other car and that functions like any other car a little stupid, but that's not my choice to make. Wealthy people can well buy anything they like, after making their just contribution to government coffers, for all the social contract inherent to any society gave them the opportunity to do.

Oh, can you afford luxuries? With your own money, that is, not your family's.



I'll answer that at the end, the irony is too good to be true.



If I have to sell my soul to do business, I don't want to do business. Plenty of businesses are successful where the employees are treated nicely and humanely. As I said, I still remember the stupid shit you said about employee's rights. You have absolutely nothing to teach me on that front. You got spanked until your ass was red and you went to the mods to have the topic closed because you were just that embarrassed.

By the by, I missed that part about the wealthy creating jobs. You do know that a majority of people are employed by small to medium businesses, right? Whose owners aren't that wealthy?



Not before giving him/her a chance to recover. Employee loyalty is everything. Have fun negotiating with union leaders showing up when your employees are tired of getting treated like shit and gang up on you.



Their money was earned on the condition of a stable state providing not only welfare to keep the lower classes happy, but the peace and security inherent by policing, the army and the rule of law. We owe everything we have to the existence of regulations and the means to enforce them. If you can't figure out why that means the wealthy should rightly pay more, you're hopeless. It is not anyone's place to decide how the wealthy spend their money, after they've given their contribution.

I like the "which my parents have done". You like to show off, don't you? Show off your own accomplishments, first rule of not being so detestable. It's okay though, I paid 200$ for a pipe (to smoke weed with, ofc) once. I am not devoid of empty luxuries myself.



So basically you're going to be a two-faced twat. Charity starts at home.



Bro, I'm graduating out of law school with a 3.7 GPA. My future is assured. I've had offers from several big firms. Have your pubic hairs grown out yet?



And your point is?



I can't wait for all the labor lawsuits you'll have on your back. Oral warning, written warning, suspension, then getting fired. Firing someone is the capital offense of industrial relations. Courts won't let you do it until you've gone through that so called "gradation of sanctions", unless they've done something serious. You don't know anything 'bout the real world, it seems. It's not all about the money. Never forget that at the end of the day, it is your employees racking up your cash. Without them you are nothing. It behooves you to treat them like humans going through life, not numbers with a file.



You are saying this then earlier you said I had no proof for calling stock brokers "assholes". Guess what, lying and stomping on feet is the hallmark of an asshole. There is a reason why almost every wealthy businessman and politicians can be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder. You are willing to sell yourself for the dollar. That's the saddest thing I've ever heard. I kinda pity you.

You seem to have a habit of shooting yourself in the foot, another trait not desired by businessmen. You also have a nasty habit of raising strawmen, never directly answering questions and beating down on the strawmen you set up for me instead. During all of this "debate", you have shrimped, changed subjects at least 500 times and only rarely answered anything I directly said to you. You are like a slippery fish, a politician caught red-handed with his hand in the candy bag, or perhaps receiving a sloppy blowjob from an ugly Jewish intern. I won't deny that I've shot a few ad hominems myself, but that is because you are sincerely, in all the time I've spend on this fucking board, about the most unlikable person I've ever seen. You're like one of these fat fish in Jamie Johnson's documentary, exact same mentality. That being said, I am busy actually contributing to society and creating my own coattails for others to ride on instead of burning my father's money. We are done here.



I'm scared, I got told by a 14 year old still buying candy with his mommy's money. Be a classist douchebag when you can stand on your own merit.

This kind of behavior is why people hate you. You're act like little scared pussies and raise up your nose at everybody who has a go at the privileged class, and raise up class friction. This is called classism. Criticism does not equals hate. I am too good to "hate" a class of people. You think I hate the upper class because I advocate that they pay a just part to society? You seriously think this is hate? You get a clue, bro.

You love living in La la land don't you? There is nothing that is for sure in life. You like to think your life is going to be sorry free because you have law firms requesting you, but life isn't going to be worry free let alone for sure. You don't know whether or not you will be homeless in the future, billionaires have lost all of their money. They out of anyone should've felt the safest and most secure. Billionaires who owned casinos have went from that to owning a small little apartment.

I'd never sell my soul for money (or as the other phrase is "Id never sell my soul to the devil"), I wouldn't sell mine or my families.

Firing someone is the capital offense of industrial relations
I could fire someone for anything I want (that's legit), if they've cost me far to much money (as in mistakes) I can fire them, if I'm doing budget cuts, I can fire them. I just can't fire based off of sexual orientation or race.

But if I did need to fire someone, I could just make up some excuse like I'm trying to cut back the spending budget. If they were to take me to court for that, they'd lose cause they can't fight against needing to save some money. Edit. I do believe you must forewarn that employee and give them a 3 weeks notice saying you're going to fire them, I think that's what you have to do but I'm not sure.


Just because you go to law in Canada doesn't mean their rules apply to the US, every country has different laws, and every state in the US has different laws. So some of which you say may not apply to where I live.

Also, some of the overpriced shoes I wear aren't made in china, but Italy. I could care less who or how they made my Jordan Shoes. The only thing that really matters to me is the price and the material used.

I never said that the wealthy shouldn't pay taxes. I'm saying that there should be a flat percentage for everyone so that it is fair! Middle class or the poor shouldn't be paying 8% taxes while the wealthy pay 30% taxes. They should both equally pay 15% taxes, it should be the same percentage for all, so when taxes for middle class or poor go up, it goes up for the wealthy, if they go up for the wealthy, it should go up for the poor and middle class. What I'm saying is equality. People shouldn't discriminate against the wealthy and force them to pay more in taxes. Financial/economic equality is what I want when it comes to taxes.

I always try to address every point, but sometimes I can't.

[Southside]

You love living in La la land don't you? There is nothing that is for sure in life. You like to think your life is going to be sorry free because you have law firms requesting you, but life isn't going to be worry free let alone for sure. You don't know whether or not you will be homeless in the future, billionaires have lost all of their money. They out of anyone should've felt the safest and most secure. Billionaires who owned casinos have went from that to owning a small little apartment.

I'd never sell my soul for money (or as the other phrase is "Id never sell my soul to the devil"), I wouldn't sell mine or my families.


I could fire someone for anything I want (that's legit), if they've cost me far to much money (as in mistakes) I can fire them, if I'm doing budget cuts, I can fire them. I just can't fire based off of sexual orientation or race.

But if I did need to fire someone, I could just make up some excuse like I'm trying to cut back the spending budget. If they were to take me to court for that, they'd lose cause they can't fight against needing to save some money. Edit. I do believe you must forewarn that employee and give them a 3 weeks notice saying you're going to fire them, I think that's what you have to do but I'm not sure.


Just because you go to law in Canada doesn't mean their rules apply to the US, every country has different laws, and every state in the US has different laws. So some of which you say may not apply to where I live.

Also, some of the overpriced shoes I wear aren't made in china, but Italy. I could care less who or how they made my Jordan Shoes. The only thing that really matters to me is the price and the material used.

I never said that the wealthy shouldn't pay taxes. I'm saying that there should be a flat percentage for everyone so that it is fair! Middle class or the poor shouldn't be paying 8% taxes while the wealthy pay 30% taxes. They should both equally pay 15% taxes, it should be the same percentage for all, so when taxes for middle class or poor go up, it goes up for the wealthy, if they go up for the wealthy, it should go up for the poor and middle class. What I'm saying is equality. People shouldn't discriminate against the wealthy and force them to pay more in taxes. Financial/economic equality is what I want when it comes to taxes.

I always try to address every point, but sometimes I can't.


So a janitorwho makes 700 a month should pay the same as a lawyer 12,000? Please..Im all for equality but come on..

[Sharona]

I believe in a safety net - if you fall it stops you from death but maybe not getting hurt altogether - but it allows you to get back on your feet - you don't STAY in the net with things as good as they always were

Medicare in Australia is great, it works here
But actual Welfare- ridiculously unfair that it funds generations of lazy, hopeless people
If you are an illegal boat person/pretend asylum seeker you get sheltered, fed, educated, medically treated etc and PAID! Their allowance is better than the aged pension retired taxpayers receive, so unfair and stupid

[Sharona]

And don't get me started on the aboriginal welfare systems

[Cicero]

So a janitorwho makes 700 a month should pay the same as a lawyer 12,000? Please..Im all for equality but come on..

No, I never said that. They should both pay something like 15% of their income. A flat line percentage for both, yet both wouldn't pay equally. If you're going to quote me do it right at least. So don't criticize me when you can't even get it right.

So say I was a senator, and I said "Everyone will pay a flat 15% tax". Then after a year of being a janitor and getting paid $700 a month, it adds up to $8,400. 15% of 8400 is 1260. So the janitor would have to pay a $1260 tax. Whereas the lawyer would make $12,000 a month, meaning he makes $240,000 a year. 15% of 240,000 is 36000. So the lawyer would have to pay $36,000 in taxes.

Janitor would pay $1,260
Lawyer would pay $36,000

In no way are those alike. That is what I was suggesting. They both pay the same percentage, not amount, but percentage. That way it's fair for everyone, it'd be fair for the janitor and the lawyer. The janitor isn't technically paying less or more in taxes, just as the lawyer isn't technically paying less or more in taxes. They're both paying 15% in taxes, but it comes up to be different numbers based on their total income.

Of course, it wouldn't be 15%, but that's an example of what I'm talking about. That is fair for EVERYONE.

[Harry Smith]

No, I never said that. They should both pay something like 15% of their income. A flat line percentage for both, yet both wouldn't pay equally. If you're going to quote me do it right at least. So don't criticize me when you can't even get it right.

So say I was a senator, and I said "Everyone will pay a flat 15% tax". Then after a year of being a janitor and getting paid $700 a month, it adds up to $8,400. 15% of 8400 is 1260. So the janitor would have to pay a $1260 tax. Whereas the lawyer would make $12,000 a month, meaning he makes $240,000 a year. 15% of 240,000 is 36000. So the lawyer would have to pay $36,000 in taxes.

Janitor would pay $1,260
Lawyer would pay $36,000

In no way are those alike. That is what I was suggesting. They both pay the same percentage, not amount, but percentage. That way it's fair for everyone, it'd be fair for the janitor and the lawyer. The janitor isn't technically paying less or more in taxes, just as the lawyer isn't technically paying less or more in taxes. They're both paying 15% in taxes, but it comes up to be different numbers based on their total income.

Of course, it wouldn't be 15%, but that's an example of what I'm talking about. That is fair for EVERYONE.

So I assume with these low taxes you would have to make drastic cuts to other front line services due to the fact that the government income through tax is going to greatly drop

[Cody 1324]

I am fine with health care for everyone HOWEVER, I beleve we need stricter welfare. They should not be given a govirnment job not money and an appartment owned by the govornment. Random drug tests should be taken and if they fail they loose the jobe and the home. Home inspections should happen and if they find unnessesary luxuries they should be forced to leave. Welfare is to help someone get out of a hard time not a long term solution.

[Hyper]

I hope Cicero and britishboy are trolling but alas I fear reality is more than I can stomach

[britishboy]

I hope Cicero and britishboy are trolling but alas I fear reality is more than I can stomach

how are we trolling?

[Harry Smith]

how are we trolling?

your acting like a spoilt rich kid who lives off daddy's credit card

[britishboy]

your acting like a spoilt rich kid who lives off daddy's credit card

:/ im 14 I cant work..... who eles is going to buy me stuff

[Harry Smith]

:/ im 14 I cant work..... who eles is going to buy me stuff

then stop acting like you've earned your money, like all 14 years you've done fuck all, don't act like your upper class and better than us mere plebs

[britishboy]

then stop acting like you've earned your money, like all 14 years you've done fuck all, don't act like your upper class and better than us mere plebs

me and my family is upper class, dont be one of them working class people, hating the rich simply because your not, and I have never disrespected you because of your class

[Harry Smith]

me and my family is upper class, dont be one of them working class people, hating the rich simply because your not, and I have never disrespected you because of your class

Your actually not part of the Upper class in Britain, does you dad have a title? Because unless he happens to be a viscount then sorry but at best your middle to upper.

[britishboy]

Your actually not part of the Upper class in Britain, does you dad have a title? Because unless he happens to be a viscount then sorry but at best your middle to upper.

your class is decided on how much wealth you have not titles and most of my families wealth comes from businesses in Australia and we might be going into the oil industry, I am insulted by being called 'middle class' but its ok because you are one of them poor people hating the higher class. my family is in the highest tax bracket by far, that makes us higher or upper class.

[Harry Smith]

your class is decided on how much wealth you have not titles and most of my families wealth comes from businesses in Australia and we might be going into the oil industry, I am insulted by being called 'middle class' but its ok because you are one of them poor people hating the higher class. my family is in the highest tax bracket by far, that makes us higher or upper class.

Damn I wouldn't want to insult you, I also love how you assume that I'm poor

[britishboy]

Damn I wouldn't want to insult you, I also love how you assume that I'm poor

well most other people are ok with it, you hate the fact im upper class and doing well for myself

[Hyper]

So you think being born is an achievement?

Also loving the logical fallacies here... Saying you haven't disrespected someone based on their class then following up with a ad hominem about their class. Purely brilliant.

And to repeat the echoes; you aren't doing anything for yourself. Your parents are.

That's an important point to remember since it applies basically to every kid on the planet wether they are extremely poor or extremely wealthy.

[Harry Smith]

well most other people are ok with it, you hate the fact im upper class and doing well for myself

I never said that did I? Also I thought we already established that your families wealth isn't through your own doing, so it's your family doing well for you?

We just merely disagree on what is the upper class, I mean Kate Middleton's parents are middle class.

Also why did you assume that I was poor?

[britishboy]

I never said that did I? Also I thought we already established that your families wealth isn't through your own doing, so it's your family doing well for you?

We just merely disagree on what is the upper class, I mean Kate Middleton's parents are middle class.

Also why did you assume that I was poor?

haha kate is not now haha shes fucking royalty, thats its own class:D
and I am doing well, my education is going great and I am higher class:/ my family is in the highest tax bracket, and I assumed you were because you cant stand the fact im not

[Harry Smith]

haha kate is not now haha shes fucking royalty, thats its own class:D
and I am doing well, my education is going great and I am higher class:/ my family is in the highest tax bracket, and I assumed you were because you cant stand the fact im not

You shouldn't go up to people and call them working class, you'll get punched. More likely down here you'll get stabbed.

If you want to be Higher class you can be whatever you want :)

[britishboy]

You shouldn't go up to people and call them working class, you'll get punched. More likely down here you'll get stabbed.

If you want to be Higher class you can be whatever you want :)

lol ok:) and stabbed? where do you live Glasgow?;)

[Sugaree]

lol 14 year old acting like he's earned all the money his parents have. Man, this thread has just turned into a comedy sketch.

[britishboy]

lol 14 year old acting like he's earned all the money his parents have. Man, this thread has just turned into a comedy sketch.

jealousy is a horrible thing;)

and lets get back in topic guys

[Harry Smith]

jealousy is a horrible thing;)

and lets get back in topic guys

Backseat modding much ahah

Here in Britain we've had a welfare state for the last 50-100 years, it's part of our national identify. I know that over in america since you have much lower tax rates and many more levels of control e.g local,state,federal then it is much harder to pass any sort of wide reaching agreement. I just think that in regards to the NHS it's a key service which helps everyone in Britain.

[britishboy]

Backseat modding much ahah

Here in Britain we've had a welfare state for the last 50-100 years, it's part of our national identify. I know that over in america since you have much lower tax rates and many more levels of control e.g local,state,federal then it is much harder to pass any sort of wide reaching agreement. I just think that in regards to the NHS it's a key service which helps everyone in Britain.

haha alright:p and yeah 100% agree, i personally think they should subsidie the health care as it is so expensive and maybe even limit the amount of profit they can. take from it, making it cheaper, it should also be noted there are 51 states and all do things differently so putting something like the NHS into action will be hard, I think there should be some reform in the USA as many have problems paying for the health care

[Sugaree]

jealousy is a horrible thing;)

and lets get back in topic guys

Jealous? Far from it. I'm not going to succumb to your level and be jealous of a 14 year old who thinks he knows it all because his parents have been successful.

[britishboy]

Jealous? Far from it. I'm not going to succumb to your level and be jealous of a 14 year old who thinks he knows it all because his parents have been successful.

yeah so so jealous

[Sugaree]

yeah so so jealous

How do you know though? If I were jealous, I wouldn't be responding to you. In fact, responding to this has probably been the only low point of my day so far. Besides, if I were jealous of a 14 year old, that wouldn't make me much of anything. Until you start working for your money and everything else, then we'll talk. Until then, you're still reliant on your parents.

[britishboy]

How do you know though? If I were jealous, I wouldn't be responding to you. In fact, responding to this has probably been the only low point of my day so far. Besides, if I were jealous of a 14 year old, that wouldn't make me much of anything. Until you start working for your money and everything else, then we'll talk. Until then, you're still reliant on your parents.

if you mean do shitty hard labor jobs like poor people because thats how 'real' people earn there money, your sadly mistaken, ive herd all thid before and im proud to be educated and have wealth.

[Sugaree]

if you mean do shitty hard labor jobs like poor people because thats how 'real' people earn there money, your sadly mistaken, ive herd all thid before and im proud to be educated and have wealth.

You're being proud over nothing. Doing hard labor is something at least 95% of the population have to do to earn their living. The supposed "poor" people are what keeps nations and the world turning. If it weren't for the workers, the CEOs and managers wouldn't have anything to make profit. I'm sad to say that if you take this attitude, that doing hard labor is for plebs like me who are just happy to be able to hold a job, then you're not getting far. You can ride mommy and daddy's coattails all day long, but they'll die and you'll only piss away what they've made. But hey, you're not my problem.

[Harry Smith]

if you mean do shitty hard labor jobs like poor people because thats how 'real' people earn there money, your sadly mistaken, ive herd all thid before and im proud to be educated and have wealth.

Well done :)

Don't assume that everyone who does labour work isn't educated. It makes you appear arrogant.

Also it's not your wealth yet

[britishboy]

You're being proud over nothing. Doing hard labor is something at least 95% of the population have to do to earn their living. The supposed "poor" people are what keeps nations and the world turning. If it weren't for the workers, the CEOs and managers wouldn't have anything to make profit. I'm sad to say that if you take this attitude, that doing hard labor is for plebs like me who are just happy to be able to hold a job, then you're not getting far. You can ride mommy and daddy's coattails all day long, but they'll die and you'll only piss away what they've made. But hey, you're not my problem.

I will inherit the buissnesses and I have 3 private tutors and go to private school and will soon be studying business and economics so ill be fine, whereas people like you will be doing hard labor

[StoppingTime]

jealousy is a horrible thing;)


I'm not exactly what you're trying to prove, but I'm going to try and figure that out.

Your main argument over the past few posts is, "Well my parents make a lot of money and they pay a lot of taxes and i thikn that's bad because they earned their money and lol idk why the government is taking it from them xD lmao and stopp hating on us cuzzzz we earned our money upper class uppppper class"


So, that's what I got out of it. Now, let's look for what value (or the absence of value) it has in a debate.

Value:

Absence of Value:
>Proves you have nothing to actually debate about, and instead, boast about your parents' (and your own?) "earned" money.
>>We don't actually know anything about you or your family, other than what you say on this forum. For all we know, nothing you said is true at all.

Also, bragging about money is a surefire way to get people to dislike you. We honestly do not care how much or little your family makes, and I speak for the whole forum, I think.


I will inherit the buissnesses and I have 3 private tutors and go to private school and will soon be studying business and economics so ill be fine, whereas people like you will be doing hard labor


That's idiotic. You do realize all those fancy ass tutors won't do shit for you unless you actually make an effort (judging by your spelling, grammar, and diction, you haven't). Any of us can get into some kind of college and find something we're passionate in. "Lower class' people aren't the janitors and bus drivers like you seem to think. Sure, those people make up the lower class, but some of them could have come from the richest families in the world, for all you know. Stop associating money with everything.


tl;dr. You family's money (or even your own) shoudn't say anything about you other than how much is in your bank account.

[britishboy]

Well done :)

Don't assume that everyone who does labour work isn't educated. It makes you appear arrogant.

Also it's not your wealth yet

well he thinks im gonna move out and be homeless and its realyyyyyyy annoying anyway your right... as usual...:p

I'm not exactly what you're trying to prove, but I'm going to try and figure that out.

Your main argument over the past few posts is, "Well my parents make a lot of money and they pay a lot of taxes and i thikn that's bad because they earned their money and lol idk why the government is taking it from them xD lmao and stopp hating on us cuzzzz we earned our money upper class uppppper class"


So, that's what I got out of it. Now, let's look for what value (or the absence of value) it has in a debate.

Value:

Absence of Value:
>Proves you have nothing to actually debate about, and instead, boast about your parents' (and your own?) "earned" money.
>>We don't actually know anything about you or your family, other than what you say on this forum. For all we know, nothing you said is true at all.

Also, bragging about money is a surefire way to get people to dislike you. We honestly do not care how much or little your family makes, and I speak for the whole forum, I think.

it started in a communist thread when I said 'they will take my money, thats stealing' and everyone now is being a bitch and im defending my self, I personly dont care at all ive only been taking about it for the last few days

[Sugaree]

I will inherit the buissnesses and I have 3 private tutors and go to private school and will soon be studying business and economics so ill be fine, whereas people like you will be doing hard labor

Well, good for you. But why are you so proud and stubborn over the idea of not having to do hard labor? Plenty of rich people got to where they are now by starting out from the very bottom and going to the top. They didn't inherit anything except the skin on their backs and they still made something of themselves. Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, hell, even Billy Mays all started at the bottom and went to the top. They all went to public school too, which says something about getting an education in a non-private school.

I'm fine with doing hard labor. I know that, for at least part of my professional life, that's where I'll be. But if that's how it'll be, that's how it'll be. I wasn't born into fortune, nor do I wish I ever WAS born into it. I'm glad to be working hard for something I can keep. So why are you, born with silver spoon in mouth, so proud and jolly over being something I'm not? You're 14, you haven't experienced anything major in life yet.

[Harry Smith]

I will inherit the buissnesses and I have 3 private tutors and go to private school and will soon be studying business and economics so ill be fine, whereas people like you will be doing hard labor

Your studying Business and Economic yet you were unaware about how a basic EU treaty works. You can have all the private education in the world, your parents can spend as much money as they can but from what I can tell it will most likely be wasted

[Rayquaza]

if you mean do shitty hard labor jobs like poor people because thats how 'real' people earn there money, your sadly mistaken, ive herd all thid before and im proud to be educated and have wealth.

And that is the quote from VT's influential poster of the year 2013

You're an absolute moron, do you know that? Shitty hard labour jobs? All wealth comes from hard labour, you don't just magically earn money. Just because you consider yourself upper class (which I doubt tremendously considering your poor etiquette and lack of common sense), it might mean that you probably don't do a labour job, it means your ancestors had to, to get where your apparent upper class family are now.

You've heard wrong, and you sound uneducated, and you have no wealth. You, as a 14 year old boy have nothing. You sponge off your parents. They pay for your food, wellbeing, everything. You yourself are worthless. I'm sorry it had to be put so bluntly to you, but it seems you're having a hard time understanding what other people are saying.

[britishboy]

Your studying Business and Economic yet you were unaware about how a basic EU treaty works. You can have all the private education in the world, your parents can spend as much money as they can but from what I can tell it will most likely be wasted

bit offensive and ive done the basics, do you think its right we let anyone in? pay everyone benefits? and offer this to 2 really poor 3rd world countrie? and if you were a business owner or manager and you have the decision of what country to invest in, would you decide on a political union? no. only profit. and do we really have to pay billions for a train system in Turkey? when theyre not even members yet!

[Harry Smith]

bit offensive and ive done the basics, do you think its right we let anyone in? pay everyone benefits? and offer this to 2 really poor 3rd world countrie? and if you were a business owner or manager and you have the decision of what country to invest in, would you decide on a political union? no. only profit. and do we really have to pay billions for a train system in Turkey? when theyre not even members yet!

loooooooooooooooooooool

Didn't you hear what I said.... the UK top business owners are saying they want to stay in the EU. I think Richard Branson knows more about economics and business then you do. Immigrants are 70% less likely to claim benefits, and they put more in through taxes than they take out

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/401259/Business-leaders-including-Sir-Richard-Branson-warn-over-cost-of-European-Union-exit

[britishboy]

loooooooooooooooooooool

Didn't you hear what I said.... the UK top business owners are saying they want to stay in the EU. I think Richard Branson knows more about economics and business then you do. Immigrants are 70% less likely to claim benefits, and they put more in through taxes than they take out

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/401259/Business-leaders-including-Sir-Richard-Branson-warn-over-cost-of-European-Union-exit

so because he says so we should? he is saying that because it saves him import and export taxes, and thats still 30% claiming benefits! and what about Romania and Bulgaria? you must agree we cant have an open border policy with them

[Human]

I think welfare like benefits should only be provided to those who can't work. In an ideal world where there are enough jobs for everyone, I think everyone should be able to live self sufficiently, unless they have a disability or something stopping them. The couples who have loads of kids for the benefits should have a cap on the money they're given.

I think things such as free medical care is a priority though and personally I think that all modern governments should have something like the nhs, even if it's basic.

[Southside]

I will inherit the buissnesses and I have 3 private tutors and go to private school and will soon be studying business and economics so ill be fine, whereas people like you will be doing hard labor

What's wrong with hard labor? How do you think your garbage gets picked up? Food gets grown/harvest? CEOs arent what makes the world trade work, its the little guys out in the fields and in the factory. I think you have the impression that all laborers are uneducated failures, not the case. Being rich or "upper class" doesnt always mean your smart, sometimes wealthy people just play their cards right in the stock market or invest in companies that are booming.

[DerBear]

lol ok:) and stabbed? where do you live Glasgow?;)

Dude, what's with the hate on Glasgow?

[britishboy]

Dude, what's with the hate on Glasgow?

high crime rate:p but I actually ment to write Liverpool

[DerBear]

high crime rate:p but I actually ment to write Liverpool

True but its not exactly nice to stereotype as people will live or visit that city regularly so there is no need to insult people's home towns.

[britishboy]

True but its not exactly nice to stereotype as people will live or visit that city regularly so there is no need to insult people's home towns.

dude its a joke, everyone makes fun of Liverpool

[StoppingTime]

dude its a joke, everyone makes fun of Liverpool

>everyone does it

>it therefore must be okay

You'll find yourself in trouble with that mentality :P

[Walter Powers]

I think private charity is better. They tend to give the money to people who really need and and will really benefit it, not spend in on beer and gambling.

me and my family is upper class, dont be one of them working class people, hating the rich simply because your not, and I have never disrespected you because of your class

Totally agree. Harry, seriously, you're worse then President Obama with the class warfare rhetoric.

haha alright:p and yeah 100% agree, i personally think they should subsidie the health care as it is so expensive and maybe even limit the amount of profit they can. take from it, making it cheaper, it should also be noted there are 51 states and all do things differently so putting something like the NHS into action will be hard, I think there should be some reform in the USA as many have problems paying for the health care

51 states? Maybe you should count the stars on our flag...

[sam927]

if you mean do shitty hard labor jobs like poor people because thats how 'real' people earn there money, your sadly mistaken, ive herd all thid before and im proud to be educated and have wealth.

I go to a private school and actual educated people whose parents make well over a million dollars never talk like that. I sense a big load of BS.

Anyways...
My mother does a speciality of medicine called Rheumatology. In the US, to apply for disability, which is sort of like welfare (you get monthly payments and a disabled parking tag, of course) one must first file for it with the government and then see a doctor who will examine them and report the findings back to the government who will approve/deny the persons disability claim. My mother gets a lot of patients requesting disability and she days 95% of the time they are not disabled/are faking that they are just to get the money. Ofcourse, she will write that in the claim if they are faking it so they will get denied-- however, the process of the government even denying claims is costly - they usually pay a doctor $400 per patient - and not only that, sometimes doctors cannot tell if a patient is legitametly disabled or is faking it. We are losing billions of dollars because of this. This system is broken.

[britishboy]

I go to a private school and actual educated people whose parents make well over a million dollars never talk like that. I sense a big load of BS.

Anyways...
My mother does a speciality of medicine called Rheumatology. In the US, to apply for disability, which is sort of like welfare (you get monthly payments and a disabled parking tag, of course) one must first file for it with the government and then see a doctor who will examine them and report the findings back to the government who will approve/deny the persons disability claim. My mother gets a lot of patients requesting disability and she days 95% of the time they are not disabled/are faking that they are just to get the money. Ofcourse, she will write that in the claim if they are faking it so they will get denied-- however, the process of the government even denying claims is costly - they usually pay a doctor $400 per patient - and not only that, sometimes doctors cannot tell if a patient is legitametly disabled or is faking it. We are losing billions of dollars because of this. This system is broken.

actually its fine to talk about what you do, its actual figures you keep private and a nurse? thats not exactly painting the image of higher class... maybe middle? anyway we have a similar system in britian, called benefits, and we too lose billions however

[britishboy]

51 states? Maybe you should count the stars on our flag...

50? Washington DC is a federal district? bloodyhell you americans are confusing;)

[tovaris]

bit offensive and ive done the basics, do you think its right we let anyone in? pay everyone benefits? and offer this to 2 really poor 3rd world countrie? and if you were a business owner or manager and you have the decision of what country to invest in, would you decide on a political union? no. only profit. and do we really have to pay billions for a train system in Turkey? when theyre not even members yet!

Its obvious you invest in your own country, not abrod.

[britishboy]

Its obvious you invest in your own country, not abrod.

hows it investing in other countries by thr government letting everyone in? your confused

[tovaris]

hows it investing in other countries by thr government letting everyone in? your confused

No a responsible buisnis ovner should invest in his home country, not move to china.

[Manjusri]

I'm not even going to bother reading this entire thread, but I'll put my two cents in anyways. These discussions never go anywhere, whether it be in congress, a debate hall, or this forum. There are far too many situational diversities when it comes to health care and government aide.

If someone is poor, and doing everything they can to better their situation, then yes they should have the option to some kind of financial aide. However, if someone is a hopeless drug addict who spends all of their welfare checks on alcohol and continually abuses the whole system, then no they should not receive financial aide.

The problem is there is no way for the government to pick and choose each person based on their situation. There are too many people to look after and not enough people to do the looking. Also the entire manner in which the government is going about giving financial aide is utterly ridiculous.

I'm not going to get into the details on how we could better this system, because once again there is too much situational diversity. At the rate things are going, the government shouldn't even offer financial aide. The people who are abusing the system are just worsening the economic crisis. The USA is stuck in a rut, and quite honestly I don't see us going anywhere anytime soon.

[Walter Powers]

50? Washington DC is a federal district? bloodyhell you americans are confusing;)
Are you kidding? The federal government doesn't desearves it's own state!

[britishboy]

Are you kidding? The federal government doesn't desearves it's own state!

im so confused! and thats what google told me:p

[britishboy]

No a responsible buisnis ovner should invest in his home country, not move to china.

a businessman should move to wherever if nessercary for money anyway I never said you should move to china?

[Walter Powers]

im so confused! and thats what google told me:p

We American's just think that the center of our government should be less important then all the states. We don't view our leaders as superior.

[Walter Powers]

No a responsible buisnis ovner should invest in his home country, not move to china.

Why in the world would anybody above middle class move to China?

[britishboy]

We American's just think that the center of our government should be less important then all the states. We don't view our leaders as superior.

fair enough how many states are there?

[Walter Powers]

fair enough how many states are there?

50! Just count the stars on old glory if you don't believe me.

[britishboy]

50! Just count the stars on old glory if you don't believe me.

I believe u!! and thanks I always thought it was 51

[Walter Powers]

I believe u!! and thanks I always thought it was 51

Wow...what are they teaching you over there?

[britishboy]

Wow...what are they teaching you over there?

they dont teach us it, the only American things we have done is slavey and the civil right movement, why would we need to know how many states there are lol?

[Walter Powers]

they dont teach us it, the only American things we have done is slavey and the civil right movement, why would we need to know how many states there are lol?

I don't know. I had to memorize all of the UKs states... England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland right?

[britishboy]

I don't know. I had to memorize all of the UKs states... England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland right?

theyre countries, its complicated lol we dont have states

[sam927]

actually its fine to talk about what you do, its actual figures you keep private and a nurse? thats not exactly painting the image of higher class... maybe middle? anyway we have a similar system in britian, called benefits, and we too lose billions however

I think you need to fire your three tutors and hire some new ones if you think a speciality of medicine is a nurse. A speciality is a type of doctor who specializes is specific stuff - just like a proctologist specializes in ass.

[britishboy]

I think you need to fire your three tutors and hire some new ones if you think a speciality of medicine is a nurse. A speciality is a type of doctor who specializes is specific stuff - just like a proctologist specializes in ass.

higher middle class my point is you dont know what your talking about

[tovaris]

Why in the world would anybody above middle class move to China?

Operations factories (call centers) are moved to placces with cheeper work force and materials like China (India). The buisnis owners afcors move to their tropical islands.

[britishboy]

Operations factories (call centers) are moved to placces with cheeper work force and materials like China (India). The buisnis owners afcors move to their tropical islands.

the people aren't moving to China, theyre employing people in China to lower costs, please read before quoting

[Walter Powers]

theyre countries, its complicated lol we dont have states

State and Country mean the same thing. The American states started as nations, or states to, but gradually grew together. You would call them seperate countries if it was just a military alliance; In both Britian and America, it's far more then that.

[yviedarling]

(This is where Munchie rants, not lashing out at any one in particular)

Government Assistance isn't free. You know who pays for government assistance? PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY PAY THEIR TAXES. I have no problem with people who REALLY need the help using it, as long as they're working or actually trying to find a job and whatnot. What I do NOT agree with is people who just sit at home, eating all the cheetos they can, watching Jersey Shore and saying they deserve the money for their hard work. I CALL BULL. That is NOT working hard for "your" money, that's using the race/sex/sexual orientation card to get what you want. I'm a minority on all grounds except sexual orientation. But, I only ever EVER signed up for that stuff when I needed it, and it was only the stuff I needed. I paid for my own damn phone. I don't need a free one. AND I had a job. Not to mention I actually took care of my child instead of putting him in some god awful "free daycare" where half the time the person running the place isn't even there. (And don't say those places don't exist because I used to go to one when I was younger. AND IT'S STILL OPEN.)

I don't even want to delve into Obamacare, yo. "EVERYBODY GETS HEALTHCARE! EXCEPT IT'S NOT FREE AND IF YOU DON'T PAY OUR INSANE PRICES THEN YOU HAVE TO PAY AN INSANELY HIGH PRICED FEE."
Obama, please. :mad:

Forgot something: WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. The people we elect work for US, not the other way around! If we want them gone, they're gone! That's the way it is! The only hold they have on us is the amount of hold we give them!!

[Bougainvillea]

I don't even want to delve into Obamacare.

Good because you obviously don't know shit about it.

It's not healthcare, and its not even called Obamacare. It's The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which is a new implementation of laws towards large insurance companies so they can no longer take as much of an advantage of people as they have in the past. Like raising premiums to ridiculous amounts, and for discrimination. It helps with improving healthcare conditions in lower income areas, to make healthcare more available for those who can't afford it.

It doesn't regulate healthcare, it regulates health insurance, and the problems that are caused because of them.

Sure it requires that things like preventive care are to be made more available, but that's good.

What's wrong with a free mammogram, or colonoscopy?

[Walter Powers]

Good because you obviously don't know shit about it.

It's not healthcare, and its not even called Obamacare. It's The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which is a new implementation of laws towards large insurance companies so they can no longer take as much of an advantage of people as they have in the past. Like raising premiums to ridiculous amounts, and for discrimination. It helps with improving healthcare conditions in lower income areas, to make healthcare more available for those who can't afford it.

It doesn't regulate healthcare, it regulates health insurance, and the problems that are caused because of them.

Sure it requires that things like preventive care are to be made more available, but that's good.

What's wrong with a free mammogram, or colonoscopy?

So, curious, how does instituting a medical device tax make healthcare more affordable?

You are aware that one of the main authors, of the unaffordable care act, a Democrat, is calling it a "train wreck," aren't you? Bottom line is no law that long can be good; too many regulations to keep track of. The only people who will be better off because of this are lawyers.

[yviedarling]

Good because you obviously don't know shit about it.

It's not healthcare, and its not even called Obamacare. It's The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which is a new implementation of laws towards large insurance companies so they can no longer take as much of an advantage of people as they have in the past. Like raising premiums to ridiculous amounts, and for discrimination. It helps with improving healthcare conditions in lower income areas, to make healthcare more available for those who can't afford it.

It doesn't regulate healthcare, it regulates health insurance, and the problems that are caused because of them.

Sure it requires that things like preventive care are to be made more available, but that's good.

What's wrong with a free mammogram, or colonoscopy?

So, I looked it up and did some quick research. And guess what? It's actually pretty unpopular. Why? Because it's not free. All Obamacare does is REQUIRE you to have an insurance plan. And it stops insurers from denying you coverage.
Here are a few "glitches" (as our president would like to call them) in the system:
No cancer care at the age of 76 (and that's the age they need the most medical attention, too)
50% of Americans will be reliant on the government (which isn't good to move the economy forward)
Part-time workers (HEY! That includes students!) have to pay for their own medical insurance
Doctor's personal care will become less personal. Which means more waiting time, less face to face time, and it'll be more of a distant relationship instead of close, like it should be.
It leaves 30 million Americans uninsured because a Supreme Court decision ruled states are no longer obligated under Obamacare to expand eligibility for their Medicaid programs
Premiums for families will increase roughly by $2,100. For a family of four, even the cheapest plan "Bronze" for Obamacare is $20,000 a year in 2016. In 2012, the average for a family of four to pay was $15,745
And to top it all off, Obamacare will KILL small businesses because of the Medicare payroll tax hike, the surtax on investment income, the employer mandate, and the individual mandate.

Look it up yourself if you want to.

[Bougainvillea]

Premiums for families will increase roughly by $2,100. For a family of four, even the cheapest plan "Bronze" for Obamacare is $20,000 a year in 2016. In 2012, the average for a family of four to pay was $15,745

That's actually not true. Because the rate is going to be typically 8% or even lower than your reported income per year. And the rates depend on where you live, your health status (like if you smoke or not), age, and how many people in your family work, and how many people are in your family in general. There's so many different things that factor in to what you're paying, that there is not average rate that can be made up. That whole $20000 thing was done on some study using an upper class family, when in reality this pertains to lover, and middle class families, since they make up the general population.

Even then, healthcare insurance providers can still compete with the costs, which hasn't happened yet, so it's still up for speculation.

No cancer care at the age of 76 (and that's the age they need the most medical attention, too)

That's also not true. I used to work at an oncology center, and its generally known that Medicaid provides cancer treatment, or other medically necessary treatments to people no matter what age they are. The ACA also improves the system in which Medicare operates, thus making it easier for Medicare to pay more if its needed. A large part of the ACA pertains to Medicaid, and making it MORE available.

And to top it all off, Obamacare will KILL small businesses because of the Medicare payroll tax hike, the surtax on investment income, the employer mandate, and the individual mandate.

Most "small business" <---- that's a very flexible term btw, already meet the mandates that obamacare requires because a lot of them already provide reasonable insurance plans anyway. In fact those mandates, are almost minimum, and cover 20% less than what my insurance covers. It's really not that much.


I don't know why I'm bothering with your copy-pasted reply from an article written by some cunt who identifies the US Government as a "villain".

And of course it's not free. When the fuck have we ever gotten anything free? Why would you expect it to be free? That's a shitty example for you to use, to explain why it's unpopular.

[tovaris]

the people aren't moving to China, theyre employing people in China to lower costs, please read before quoting

Yes and that is wrong.

[britishboy]

Yes and that is wrong.

hows it? it gives you more profit? how can that possibly be wrong?

[Walter Powers]

Yes and that is wrong.

What's wrong with that? We're giving poor people in China jobs!

Oh yeah, you don't like it when people work.

[tovaris]

hows it? it gives you more profit? how can that possibly be wrong?

How aboit your home nation? Profit isn't everething.

What's wrong with that? We're giving poor people in China jobs!

Oh yeah, you don't like it when people work.

You give work to China while your people workless and homeless wonder the streets in your home country... Some patriot.

[Walter Powers]

How aboit your home nation? Profit isn't everething.



You give work to China while your people workless and homeless wonder the streets in your home country... Some patriot.

I know you've never been to America but I can assure you I'd rather be the poorest sane person in this entire country instead of a Chinese worker. To give you some perspective. And we don't have any real homeless people where I live; we have homeless shelters and food kitchens.

Also, I realize that by maximizing profit margins by lowering labor costs by outsourcing manual jobs, more higher paying jobs high skill will become available at the American Headquarters of a company.

[tovaris]

I know you've never been to America but I can assure you I'd rather be the poorest sane person in this entire country instead of a Chinese worker. To give you some perspective. And we don't have any real homeless people where I live; we have homeless shelters and food kitchens.

Also, I realize that by maximizing profit margins by lowering labor costs by outsourcing manual jobs, more higher paying jobs high skill will become available at the American Headquarters of a company.

Aha and the unemploied mases you threw away on acount of profit deserve to suffer?

[britishboy]

How aboit your home nation? Profit isn't everething.

really? I thought nationalism wasn't so extreme, your purpose of life isnt to serve your country, for fuck sake millions move countries! can I not go on holiday because I am supporting a foreign economy? Hitler had the same views as you on this

[tovaris]

really? I thought nationalism wasn't so extreme, your purpose of life isnt to serve your country, for fuck sake millions move countries! can I not go on holiday because I am supporting a foreign economy? Hitler had the same views as you on this

Im saing take care of milions on your dorstep then go helping the world who cares About the profit.

[Walter Powers]

Aha and the unemploied mases you threw away on acount of profit deserve to suffer?

Dude, when the economy sank they either had to let go of people or declare bankruptcy, then EVERYBODY would lose their job.

[tovaris]

Dude, when the economy sank they either had to let go of people or declare bankruptcy, then EVERYBODY would lose their job.

That is diferent to moving to foreighn lands where workers have les rights and lower pay for the sake of naked profit.

[britishboy]

Im saing take care of milions on your dorstep then go helping the world who cares About the profit.

theres only 66million in britian and we have very little homeless in our country 99% I would say (its a guess) are illegal immigrants and because of this they cant claim benefits (money from government when you dont have enough) and do you know what the first 2 rules are in business? customers and profit, nationalists like you hate this free multicultural world

[Walter Powers]

That is diferent to moving to foreighn lands where workers have les rights and lower pay for the sake of naked profit.

They wouldn't take the job if it made them worse off.

[tovaris]

theres only 66million in britian and we have very little homeless in our country 99% I would say (its a guess) are illegal immigrants and because of this they cant claim benefits (money from government when you dont have enough) and do you know what the first 2 rules are in business? customers and profit, nationalists like you hate this free multicultural world

I dont hate the multicultural world i am saing cleen up your dorstep before going abrod.


Ah whats the use... explaning the social mecanisms of state to a member of the Haeyk kult

[tovaris]

theres only 66million in britian and we have very little homeless in our country 99% I would say (its a guess) are illegal immigrants and because of this they cant claim benefits (money from government when you dont have enough) and do you know what the first 2 rules are in business? customers and profit, nationalists like you hate this free multicultural world

I dont hate the multicultural world i am saing cleen up your dorstep before going abrod.


Ah whats the use... explaning the social mecanisms of state to a member of the Haeyk kult

[britishboy]

I dont hate the multicultural world i am saing cleen up your dorstep before going abrod.


Ah whats the use... explaning the social mecanisms of state to a member of the Haeyk kult

its the governments duty to sort out the country, not the citizens and people dont go to China to clean up the country, they go for profit

[tovaris]

its the governments duty to sort out the country, not the citizens and people dont go to China to clean up the country, they go for profit

Profit is owerrated.

[britishboy]

Profit is owerrated.

ow god... profit = nice holidays, large house, staff and a nice long relaxed life... please dont tell me you actually ment that?

[tovaris]

ow god... profit = nice holidays, large house, staff and a nice long relaxed life... please dont tell me you actually ment that?

Give profit back to the workers.

[Walter Powers]

Give profit back to the workers.
How are you supposed to expand your business and employ more people if your labor costs are outrageously high?

[tovaris]

How are you supposed to expand your business and employ more people if your labor costs are outrageously high?

The answer in the curent sistem is selfmanegment. Seing the workers as the owners ot the conpany.

[britishboy]

Give profit back to the workers.

no they get a wage.... you really dont understand how society works

[Walter Powers]

The answer in the curent sistem is selfmanegment. Seing the workers as the owners ot the conpany.

If it's a publically traded stock, like almost all big American companies you can be an owner of who you work for,easy. I can call a broker on Wall Street in NYC and tell them I want to buy 100 shares of my compainies stock regardless of who I am.

However, I'm certainly not entitled to being given free stock in a company, like you suggest.

[tovaris]

no they get a wage.... you really dont understand how society works

More and more conpanies are being baught up by their workers, that is fact not fiction. Society workes that way, if the firm is sucsesfull the workers get rewarded if it isnt they rwcieve their wages that capitalism.

[britishboy]

More and more conpanies are being baught up by their workers, that is fact not fiction. Society workes that way, if the firm is sucsesfull the workers get rewarded if it isnt they rwcieve their wages that capitalism.

yes and its bonuses like that that make people work hard! unlike in communism

[tovaris]

yes and its bonuses like that that make people work hard! unlike in communism

This anounces the begining of the inbetween perioud of socialism that will avantuly bring us to the ulitimate sistem. Since the workers arebworking for the good of the factory.