Consciousness and creation.

[rockNroll]

Have you ever thought about your consciousness? I find it fascinating. A person's mind can go inward infinitely, and I believe that our minds contain a multitude of information that we haven't yet discovered.

What if there is no 'God', as He is portrayed in holy scriptures (such as the Bible), merely a higher 'enlightenment' one can reach within himself? I think that religions mistakenly credit 'God' with the creation of the universe, which takes away peoples' initiative to discover the truth behind it, a truth which may be locked inside of our heads.

I am not familiar with the entire Bible, but I wish to explain one part of it that I am familiar with, the "Seven Days of Creation". I'm not sure exactly when this concept originated in, but it is fair to say that mankind as a whole had even less of a grasp on how the universe and the earth came about. Once you peel back the misinterpretations that come from thousands of years of translations, you arrive at a conceptual understanding which may astound you.


On the first "day" (obviously not actually a day, but a happening in the history of the universe. Time is irrelevant because it is relative to Earth and is a concept known only to the human mind), the sun and universe forms, and with it eventually Earth forms. I do not have a full grasp on how that happened, and I don't think anyone does or ever has. The big bang theory explains a very small portion of it.

On the second and third "days", which could have been literally any amount of time apart, the earth evolves to a point where it is a host to water, solid land and an atmosphere, which we know has happened to other planets.

The fourth day may imply that other planets keep evolving around us.

On the fifth "day", extremely simple organisms began to evolve, eventually into complex 'animals'. There are scientific theories as to how this could have happened, however I am not extremely familiar with them.

The sixth "day" is the evolution of the 'animals' into 'humans'. Humans developed a consciousness, which sets them ahead of the other organisms they share the planet with.

The seventh day, or Sabbath day, could simply mean that during this period humans, with ever-evolving psyches, began to take control of the earth.

I believe in evolution as much as I believe in other things that have mountains of facts and evidence supporting them, which is to say I most definitely believe in it. Even if you believe in a higher power, which I am not opposed to, you must realize that the "Seven Days of Creation" do in fact portray natural evolution and the 'origin' of the universe, in my opinion.

What the Bible says is simply an extremely misinterpreted version of the what really happened, thousands of years before we actually knew what happened. Maybe it's just me, but I find the fact that the subconscious knows things that the conscious doesn't realize for thousands of years amazing.



I apologize for the rambling nature of that, I hope my ideas got across and sparked something with someone. All of this is open to discussion, I'd love to hear everyone's opinions on it.

[Human]

I don't think the bible really hinted towards evolution or anything.

I think consciousness is interesting too, but I think it's caused by electrochemical reactions or similar in the brain

[xxdrakeTxx]

Yes and ur veiws are vary similar to a spirtual satanist. i have learned that most what people say u cant do magic and other stuff they only see it as there religion or media portrays it so they dont enlighten them selves and i am very familliar with my mind and soul and the so called god didnt creat the world since he didnt exist the true creator is lucifer and his demons were gods way before the judeo/christian god .

[removeddddd]

^ That's like...your opinion man!



Conciousness is a interesting topic to discuss and you might be right as the bible has been re-written a lot

[QuantumPhysics]

Conciousness is a very krazy subject. Our whole lives could be a dream. And when we sleep it is real. That is just hypothetical but it is quite scary isn't it? Our friends could be just a figment of our imagination. Parents. Everyone. But that is quite good because evryone tht dies in our lives could still be alive. What about when you die you finally wake up? :confused:

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Consciousness of the body is quite an interesting and really complex topic.
But it certainly has nothing to do with religion.

[sqishy]

I think consciousness is the macroscopic outcome of quantum effects arising from millions of electrochemical reactions that happen to be going in some sort of very helpful arrangement. Quantum mechanics being really weird and having pure probability over causality could explain why consciousness leads us humans, and other conscious life forms, to do everyday things (and other things) that would be almost infinitly improbable to do using pure classical mechanics, such as organizing things and creating an entropy paradox.

On the subject of creation, I current go by the idea which I found on wikipedia months ago. It says that our universe and the big bang happened when pure quantum fluctuations left unhindered in a huge empty-dimension heat-death old universe, by chance, all create this universe out of nothing, when certain fluctuations in the vacuum align. Vacuum-energy. In a universe where nothing happens forever, it's bound to happen eventually, because there's so much time for anything and everything to happen due to pure chance. The same could happen for a chair coming out of nothing due to quantum fluctuations, and a conscious brain, as in the Boltzmann Brain. Perhaps Douglas Adams' Infinite Improbability Drive wasn't so far-fetched.
They say that's probably how this universe will end. So maybe everything is cyclic, hmm....

If I sound stupidly complicated in that I'm trying to say, ask me to rephrase.

[Spook]

Have you ever thought about your consciousness? I find it fascinating. A person's mind can go inward infinitely, and I believe that our minds contain a multitude of information that we haven't yet discovered.

What if there is no 'God', as He is portrayed in holy scriptures (such as the Bible), merely a higher 'enlightenment' one can reach within himself? I think that religions mistakenly credit 'God' with the creation of the universe, which takes away peoples' initiative to discover the truth behind it, a truth which may be locked inside of our heads.

I am not familiar with the entire Bible, but I wish to explain one part of it that I am familiar with, the "Seven Days of Creation". I'm not sure exactly when this concept originated in, but it is fair to say that mankind as a whole had even less of a grasp on how the universe and the earth came about. Once you peel back the misinterpretations that come from thousands of years of translations, you arrive at a conceptual understanding which may astound you.


On the first "day" (obviously not actually a day, but a happening in the history of the universe. Time is irrelevant because it is relative to Earth and is a concept known only to the human mind), the sun and universe forms, and with it eventually Earth forms. I do not have a full grasp on how that happened, and I don't think anyone does or ever has. The big bang theory explains a very small portion of it.

On the second and third "days", which could have been literally any amount of time apart, the earth evolves to a point where it is a host to water, solid land and an atmosphere, which we know has happened to other planets.

The fourth day may imply that other planets keep evolving around us.

On the fifth "day", extremely simple organisms began to evolve, eventually into complex 'animals'. There are scientific theories as to how this could have happened, however I am not extremely familiar with them.

The sixth "day" is the evolution of the 'animals' into 'humans'. Humans developed a consciousness, which sets them ahead of the other organisms they share the planet with.

The seventh day, or Sabbath day, could simply mean that during this period humans, with ever-evolving psyches, began to take control of the earth.

I believe in evolution as much as I believe in other things that have mountains of facts and evidence supporting them, which is to say I most definitely believe in it. Even if you believe in a higher power, which I am not opposed to, you must realize that the "Seven Days of Creation" do in fact portray natural evolution and the 'origin' of the universe, in my opinion.

What the Bible says is simply an extremely misinterpreted version of the what really happened, thousands of years before we actually knew what happened. Maybe it's just me, but I find the fact that the subconscious knows things that the conscious doesn't realize for thousands of years amazing.



I apologize for the rambling nature of that, I hope my ideas got across and sparked something with someone. All of this is open to discussion, I'd love to hear everyone's opinions on it.


I believe what you're saying (and correct me if I'm wrong) that the bible is misinterpreted in the sense that the seven days of creation were not actually seven days, but a long period of time in which each period of change was called a day. (did that make sense?) If that's what you're getting at, I agree.
There are several other things people take so literally in the bible, while in fact it is extremely symbolic. For example, people seem to think that Mary, called the "Virgin Mary" was actually a virgin. I believe that it is technically symbolism to describe Mary as innocent and fair... In reality, I think this man called "Jesus" was actually a product of Mary's reproduction with someone. I mean, is it really believable that a woman could be impregnated by an invisible man? She obviously had to have been impregnated in some way, and after the fact she was referred to as the Virgin mary to showcase her innocence and beauty; maybe even to distract from the fact that Jesus was born from something not-so-pleasant as sweaty sex and semen. Just saying. :yeah:
Aside from this (I've gone a little off topic)
Could you clarify the connection with religion and conciousness?
If you are trying to clarify the thought of "God" giving humans a consciousness while creating us- it kind of cancels out the other argument, "God is mistakenly credited with the creation of the universe."
I think a consciousness is in fact a very complex thing, and the human brain is an infinite maze of thought and emotion. In fact, the human brain is the very thing that leads us to reason out things like the creation of the universe. I believe in the big bang theory. Some people say it's far-fetched that something as large and endless as the universe could be produced from a particle smaller than a grain of rice; and others have said that it's a big leap of faith. But my brain has decided that an invisible man with endless power is a big leap of faith, too.
Really, no matter what our consciousness tells us; whether it tells us that we should be faithful and be worshippers; or whether we should question the universe; none of us have solid proof of how we came to be.
I can't prove there's no god, others cannot prove that the universe evolved from a grain of rice.

[darthearth]

I think consciousness is the macroscopic outcome of quantum effects arising from millions of electrochemical reactions that happen to be going in some sort of very helpful arrangement. Quantum mechanics being really weird and having pure probability over causality could explain why consciousness leads us humans, and other conscious life forms, to do everyday things (and other things) that would be almost infinitly improbable to do using pure classical mechanics, such as organizing things and creating an entropy paradox.

On the subject of creation, I current go by the idea which I found on wikipedia months ago. It says that our universe and the big bang happened when pure quantum fluctuations left unhindered in a huge empty-dimension heat-death old universe, by chance, all create this universe out of nothing, when certain fluctuations in the vacuum align. Vacuum-energy. In a universe where nothing happens forever, it's bound to happen eventually, because there's so much time for anything and everything to happen due to pure chance. The same could happen for a chair coming out of nothing due to quantum fluctuations, and a conscious brain, as in the Boltzmann Brain. Perhaps Douglas Adams' Infinite Improbability Drive wasn't so far-fetched.
They say that's probably how this universe will end. So maybe everything is cyclic, hmm....

If I sound stupidly complicated in that I'm trying to say, ask me to rephrase.

But if there are quantum fluctuations, that is something, not nothing. The Universe cannot come out of true "nothing" and really, no amount of electrochemical reactions can logically produce consciousness. There is no reasoning or physical process where that would be the result.

I believe science will always be at a loss concerning consciousness, and that we are non-physical entities interacting in some way with the physical brain, we "read-out" the brain to produce our experience. To me, this is the only logical conclusion.

[sqishy]

But if there are quantum fluctuations, that is something, not nothing. The Universe cannot come out of true "nothing" and really, no amount of electrochemical reactions can logically produce consciousness. There is no reasoning or physical process where that would be the result.

I believe science will always be at a loss concerning consciousness, and that we are non-physical entities interacting in some way with the physical brain, we "read-out" the brain to produce our experience. To me, this is the only logical conclusion.

Quantum mechanics is not predictable or rational. Everything in it is about wavefunctions and probabilities. It shows that anything is possible to different degrees of chance. I see it as a possibility for consciousness, not the actual root to it. I agree with you. How can I explain the sensation of seeing 'blueness' with an equation? I can't.
Logic and strict reason only goes so far. You could see logic and reason as the 'rules' of this universe/plane etc. Going with the multiverse idea, things from other universes that interact with this one don't apply to our rules, and therefore seem to be paradoxical and impossible. Dark matter might be an example.

[dsi411]

Ugh, I don't even think about it. Makes my brain hurt.