Guantánamo Bay

[Atonement]

Ladies and gentlemen, there hasn't been a thread on this for a while, so I thought I'd start the discussion.

What are your thoughts about the continued operation of Guantanamo Bay?


If you want it to close, why? How do you want the prisoners to be dealt with? Who takes them? Who prosecutes them? Who's fault is it that the center isn't closed yet?

If you want to keep it open, why? How do you justify the lack of rights? Why is the military than the civil system at handling the prisoners? Under what circumstances would you support the closure of it?


For the love of whatever deity you believe in, please stay on topic and don't let this turn into a discussion of global power, West vs. Middle East, or a pissing match between military prowess.

[Harry Smith]

It's completely immoral and illegal, it goes against nearly every single foundations that the US stands for. I think that the prisoners should be tried in court, if they can't convict them then they have no right to detain them. They are breaking both the United Nations charter and the Geneva convention by just operating it. They need to close it

[Stronk Serb]

Get the prisoners some lawyers, trial them and shut that shithole down. Obama tried, the Congress denied him, I think.

[Atonement]

Technically speaking, Congress denied funding to transfer the detainees to their countries of origin (or third parties).

Should the prisoners be tried in civilian or military courts?

[Cicero]

I now have more of an understanding, thx

[Atonement]

Keep it. They're the worst of the worst, and when you're a terrorist. I don't believe you deserve any rights. If we were to bring these people over to the main US, were basically allowing them to come inside of our country. Who knows, their terrorist group could organize a huge event to where they plan a huge escape and right there is when we have a problem.

Rights are rights for a reason. I could just as easily say, "You don't have rights because you ran a traffic light." They (allegedly) broke the law. They haven't been proven guilty. It is a (indefinite) detention center, mostly for individuals accused of terrorism but the case lacks enough evidence to try. Therefore, there is no case, there is no justice. People are held without a trial. How is that justice?

Misconception: If detainees were released, few would come to the mainland. Most would be transferred to third parties or their countries of origin for trial. What makes you think Guantánamo is so much safer?

Also, that's a HUGE extrapolation. Move them from Guantánamo and they all get loose and attack the United States? The United States is moreso seen as an unjust regime that detains people because they say they're guilty without trial. How does that make the Untied States better than any dictator's regime? If anything, keeping Guantánamo open ignites armed opposition against the United States for the injustice of indefinite detention.

[Stronk Serb]

Technically speaking, Congress denied funding to transfer the detainees to their countries of origin (or third parties).

Should the prisoners be tried in civilian or military courts?



Both? Maybe make an anti-terrorism court just for terrorists?

[Bethany]

Keep it. They're the worst of the worst, and when you're a terrorist. I don't believe you deserve any rights. If we were to bring these people over to the main US, were basically allowing them to come inside of our country. Who knows, their terrorist group could organize a huge event to where they plan a huge escape and right there is when we have a problem.

They aren't necessarily terrorists. We don't know, considering they haven't been charged or tried. They haven't been convicted of anything - innocent until proven guilty.

I don't think that's an issue. Terrorists can already get inside the country if they want to, and the idea of a mass escape from a high-security prison is unlikely.

[Left Now]

As i suggest,make a real(!)global court from all of the countries and then let them come to that court and then those prisoners in Guantanamo can be identified as criminals or innocents.And by this i mean close that Prison.

[comical]

Guantanamo is really coming out of the dark lately.. You could see protestors multiply by the hour in front of the WH this past weekend. But back on topic..

I find it inhumane. They are holding people prisoner without trial and without charges. Kind of sickening that the detainees had to go on a hunger strike in order for some light to be shed on this situation.

[Stronk Serb]

As i suggest,make a real(!)global court from all of the countries and then let them come to that court and then those prisoners in Guantanamo can be identified as criminals or innocents.And by this i mean close that Prison.

There is a international crime court in Hague. Many officers that took part in the war which tore Yugoslavia apart, from all sides are there. Although, why are they keeping them there, and not convicting them. For some prisoners, it is a decade of captivity, maybe some years more.

[Atonement]

There is a international crime court in Hague. Many officers that took part in the war which tore Yugoslavia apart, from all sides are there. Although, why are they keeping them there, and not convicting them. For some prisoners, it is a decade of captivity, maybe some years more.

1. The International Criminal Court does not try for terrorism. If there isn't enough evidence for a military tribunal, the ICC would never hear it.

2. The United States hasn't ratified the Rome Statute, therefore isn't really a part of the ICC.

3. The International Court of Justice is for conflicts between states, before anyone else brings that up.

[xmojox]

It's a slap in the face to everything the United States is supposed to stand for. Either charge them and try them in civilian court or release them to their countries of origin.

[Harry Smith]

Technically speaking, Congress denied funding to transfer the detainees to their countries of origin (or third parties).

Should the prisoners be tried in civilian or military courts?

They should be tried in Military courts, the majority of the prisoners are actually from Afghanistan rather than the states

[LunarScorpio]

It is a scary place, I once read an article of someone once they got out.

I don't know my opinion, however it has good and bad points.

If it was cleaned up, It would be a strong place, at the moment....

[Stronk Serb]

Try them by military court. Terrorists are paramilitaries to some extent.

[britishboy]

someone pm me on what this prison thing is about I have no clue:p

[Human]

Guantanomo bay should be shut down as soon as possible. I'd guess a good percentage of inmates there are innocent, as they go without trial most of the time.

[Hunter_Steel]

Try the prisoners in a military court, send the guilty back to that hell hole, and send the innocents free. Thats how I see it. If your tried and convicted of terrorism, your rights are effectively null and void. No prisoner that is proven to have committed terrorism should have any rights whatsoever.

Its like saying a murderer that even in a court trial pleaded guilty, and said he enjoyed every minute of killing those people should have rights? Or a serial killer that killed people just cause he could should have rights? Terrorists fall under the same category since they indiscriminately bomb civilian targets and ruin people's lives.

People like that IMO are no longer counted as human and should no longer fall under human rights.

Keeping that prison open, and only sending people to it once they are convicted and proven guilty will act as a deterrent.

~Hunter

[Southside]

Close It, most of the detainees are innocent anyway...

[Sir Suomi]

I'd say we should keep it, for these reasons:
A) 15.8% of the detainees we've released have been confirmed to have gone back to a terrorist group, with another 12.1% being suspected of returning to a terrorist group.
B) Four Dozen of these detainees cannot be prosecuted for various reasons, but they are too dangerous to release.
C) Even if we closed it down, majority of these detainees would simply be relocated to another prison within the United States.

Links: http://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Reports%20and%20Pubs/Reports%20and%20Pubs%202012/Summary%20of%20the%20Reengagement%20of%20Detainees%20Formerly%20Held%20at%20GTMO .pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/opinion/dont-close-guantanamo.html?_r=0

[Stronk Serb]

So you would sorta be like the Catholic Inquisition? Imprisoning people without evidence is way against what the US "stands for", but if it is possible terrorism, why risk it? Imprison a man without evidence. Some people said he was a terrorist, that is enough evidence.

[Krash9]

I'd say we should keep it, for these reasons:
A) 15.8% of the detainees we've released have been confirmed to have gone back to a terrorist group, with another 12.1% being suspected of returning to a terrorist group.
B) Four Dozen of these detainees cannot be prosecuted for various reasons, but they are too dangerous to release.
C) Even if we closed it down, majority of these detainees would simply be relocated to another prison within the United States.



So, even if they cant be tried because the evidence was either obtained illegally (like through torture) or for other reasons. They cannot be tried. Which means they cannot be proved guilty. So wether they are dangerous or not we should just lock them in a hole without trial because we think they are dangerous? Im sorry i thought in america you had a right to a fair and speedy trial or is that just something we talk about in freshman civics?

[Harry Smith]

I'd say we should keep it, for these reasons:
A) 15.8% of the detainees we've released have been confirmed to have gone back to a terrorist group, with another 12.1% being suspected of returning to a terrorist group.
B) Four Dozen of these detainees cannot be prosecuted for various reasons, but they are too dangerous to release.
C) Even if we closed it down, majority of these detainees would simply be relocated to another prison within the United States.

Links: http://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Reports%20and%20Pubs/Reports%20and%20Pubs%202012/Summary%20of%20the%20Reengagement%20of%20Detainees%20Formerly%20Held%20at%20GTMO .pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/11/opinion/dont-close-guantanamo.html?_r=0

The problem is that the US are committing war crimes under the 1929 Geneva convention on the treatment of Prisoners of war, and the wide scale use of torture at Guantanomo bay which is breaking the 7th universal human right

[naglfari]

Obviously we should close it. Anyone who is actually proven to be a terrorist can go to one of our many state side prisons