Homosexuality, is it right or no ?

[TheRashad]

I accept gays and lesbians but I think homosex isn't the nature we were created for and I think that homosexuality is abnormal.
What about you?

[Magus]

You do realize that gays and lesbians are homosexuals, that in most of the part of their lives, engage in sexual activities with same sex partners?

To me, I don't really care if it is normal or abnormal. If two persons are happy together, then to me, that's more than normal.

We are not pieces of geometric blocks.

[TheRashad]

You do realize that gays and lesbians are homosexuals, that in most of the part of their lives, engage in sexual activities with same sex partners?

To me, I don't really care if it is normal or abnormal. If two persons are happy together, then to me, that's more than normal.

We are not pieces of geometric blocks.

I didn't say ( that in most of the part of their lives, engage in sexual activities with same sex partners) part. I know that homosexuality isnt only about sex , but I don't see that loving a person of the same gender as me isn't the nature of humans.

Also, if they are happy together it's ok but just friends love and let the nature take its flow and marry one from the opposite sex or even don't marry

[Magus]

I didn't say ( that in most of the part of their lives, engage in sexual activities with same sex partners) part.

Yes, I know that you didn't say it. That's why I mentioned it, because you missed the whole point.

I know that homosexuality isnt only about sex , but I don't see that loving a person of the same gender as me isn't the nature of humans.

Don't confuse Gender(Men and Women) and Sex(Male and Female). Those are two different things.

Nature of human is that each one is different. Not everyone is the same, not everyone is a carbon copy of each other.

I am sure you don't feel attracted to people of the same sex as you are. But there are people who are, and their presence is undeniable.

Also, if they are happy together it's ok but just friends love and let the nature take its flow and marry one from the opposite sex or even don't marry

Well, what if they love that person that they want to form a civil union(aka marriage), live together and even engage in sexual acts and even adopt or have a child from a surrogate mother? What if that makes them happy?

[Gwen]

We could say a lot of things about humans and accepting isn't one of them unfortuantly (Majority and Time wise anyways). It's alright to be loving of a person of the same sex, do you really want to stop 2 people being happy because you see it as wrong, they see it as love. My mother said loving someone of a different religion or race is wrong, do you think that? Because sexuality is the same thing, it doesn't make you better or worse, it's just preference.

[Jess]

I accept them and see them like any love relationship and believe they deserve equal rights.

[Harry Smith]

Homosexuality isn't abnormal, there are many cases from the wild where animals engage in gay intercourse. But that is beside the point, I have every right to love who I want and marry who want. If that person happens to be a man then it should not at all make a difference.

[BebeFleur.]

Adding to what has been said above.

Also, homosexuality isn't something some decides out of the blue. It is their genetics. No, it is not what nature intended, as you cannot reproduce, but it was nature that made it so that the are homosexual.

People should be happy with who they are with.

[CountryGuy]

Saying someone is born gay is like saying a thief is born a thief. Theviery is a leanred action, as well as homosexuality. Deal with it, haters.

[StoppingTime]

Saying someone is born gay is like saying a thief is born a thief. Theviery is a leanred action, as well as homosexuality. Deal with it, haters.

That literally made no sense - anyway.

Homosexuality has been proven in many, many scientific studies to be somewhat based in genetics. That's inarguable - it's science. The same way some people are more susceptible to alcohol/drug addictions; some people are more "genetically likely" (according to studies) to be gay, bisexual, etc.

[BebeFleur.]

Saying someone is born gay is like saying a thief is born a thief. Theviery is a leanred action, as well as homosexuality. Deal with it, haters.

That makes no sense. Your logic makes no sense. Are you for or against homosexuality?

[Ace of Spades]

Homosexuality has been documented in over 450 species around the world. Homophobia is found in only one.....................................

..............Think about that

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Homosexuality has been documented in over 450 species around the world. Homophobia is found in only one.....................................

..............Think about that

That is one thing.

Another- Why the fuck can't somebody be who they are?
really. You can't try to make a gay act like today's straight males. ( NPH does such a good job doing that :) )

[Bethany]

Saying someone is born gay is like saying a thief is born a thief. Theviery is a leanred action, as well as homosexuality. Deal with it, haters.

Homosexuality is not an action. You can make the choice "Am I going to steal something or not?" but you don't make the choice "Am I going to be gay or straight?"?

[xmojox]

Saying someone is born gay is like saying a thief is born a thief. Theviery is a leanred action, as well as homosexuality. Deal with it, haters.

At what point in your life did you make the conscious decision to be heterosexual? Just wondering....

[RyanJF1]

I accept gays and lesbians but I think homosex isn't the nature we were created for and I think that homosexuality is abnormal.
What about you?

I was born gay and nothing can change that. Ever since I was little I've always been attracted to the same gender. While being gay might be abnormal to you, it's my normal, and that's all that really matters.

[Magus]

That literally made no sense - anyway.

Homosexuality has been proven in many, many scientific studies to be somewhat based in genetics. That's inarguable - it's science. The same way some people are more susceptible to alcohol/drug addictions; some people are more "genetically likely" (according to studies) to be gay, bisexual, etc.

It's somewhat genetic, but it is, more or less, prenatal. As in, it happens during growing up in the womb, and not from when the gametes fuse.

[Horatio Nelson]

It's not natural that's for sure. I'm completely against it and I couldn't give a rip what anyone says. I hate the sin love the sinner, I will be friends with any homosexual and treat them just like anybody else. Before you go beating me up for saying homosexuality is a sin, we're all sinners, (whether you accept that or not is your decision) and I am chief among them.

[Magus]

It's not natural that's for sure. I'm completely against it and I couldn't give a rip what anyone says. I hate the sin love the sinner, I will be friends with any homosexual and treat them just like anybody else. Before you go beating me up for saying homosexuality is a sin, we're all sinners, (whether you accept that or not is your decision) and I am chief among them.

I have some good news for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1p3vE6aOmA

[Left Now]

It cannot be completely natural.Enviroment and the things around that human are as affective as genetics are.
For example in Iran 0/907565 percent of males are gay and about 1/00231 percent of population are homosexual.
It is something based on the cultural atmosphere of a person and not all genetics.Genetics just can make that feeling happen sooner or later,but that atmosphere can prevent it for always or make it happen sooner.

[Magus]

It cannot be completely natural.Enviroment and the things around that human are as affective as genetics are.
For example in Iran 0/907565 percent of males are gay and about 1/00231 percent of population are homosexual.
It is something based on the cultural atmosphere of a person and not all genetics.Genetics just can make that feeling happen sooner or later,but that atmosphere can prevent it for always or make it happen sooner.

Iran doesn't have gays, because if they identify themselves as gays, they will be executed. No argument there.

And from where did you bring those numbers anyone? Percentage value doesn't work like that.

I disagree and agree. Genetics has a role, and so does the up bringing and the environment.

If you grew up in a tough neighborhood, coming out would surely be difficult for any person. As those people have a primitive idea what a boy or a girl should and shouldn't be.

And if you are in an area where it is acceptable, you get to experiment your preferences.

Even in Saudi Arabia (http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/saudi-journalist-arrested-gay-party280313) where strict rules are applied, always have end up getting Gays in jails. Where does these "gays" come up in these strict nations?

This alone disproves your hypothesis that up bringing, culture or environment has anything to do with attraction.

[chrisawesome]

If the cock is there, just suck it !!!

[Left Now]

Iran doesn't have gays, because if they identify themselves as gays, they will be executed. No argument there.

And from where did you bring those numbers anyone? Percentage value doesn't work like that.

Shocking question!But if you go to some of those porno illegal sites of Iranian managers you will get that they are complaining about why they are low at all.For example one of their biggest one declared that Iranian gay numbers are under 1% and why men do not like to be with men?
Also Iranian men are not like this at all.They hate be something like a woman for a man.
You have told me you are from Iran but nothing know from the culture of your country?
Even ancient Persian people were against it.

[Magus]

Didn't I tell you to put spaces between paragraphs?

But if you go to some of those porno illegal sites of Iranian managers you will get that they are complaining about why they are low at all

I guess the reasons is well known why they are low.

For example one of their biggest one declared that Iranian gay numbers are under 1% and why men do not like to be with men?

I don't know. And I don't know what you are trying to say.

Also Iranian men are not like this at all.They hate be something like a woman for a man.

Gay doesn't mean you have to be a women for a man. There is no such thing as a "women" in a gay relationship. That's an old and decrepit concept.

And how do you know Iranian men aren't like this? They could be the most flamboyant people out there, but do not show for fear of the government.

You have told me you are from Iran but nothing know from the culture of your country? Even ancient Persian people were against it.

Yeah, I am a Beluch. I have my own culture.

And yeah, Ancient Persia were against it because of Zoarastrianism. It isn't any better than Islam when it comes to treatment of Homosexuals.

[Left Now]

Well,During the Shah reign homosexuals were free but even in those time the population of them were under 1%.
Men of Middle East are not westernized at all.Gay and Lesbians were from Roman and Greek culture,the atheist ones i mean.Also from far east.But the majority of middle eastern population were always against this, and by majority i mean over 97% maybe or more,even when Selucid Empire,(From Regions of Alexander of Macedonia)tried to force people accept it.
You have to deal with it people in here and specially Iran cannot accept it.
Even adultery is more acceptable for them than homosexuality.
However i don't have any quarrel with it until it doesn't threat my society.

[CountryGuy]

That makes no sense. Your logic makes no sense. Are you for or against homosexuality?

Against, to put in simple terms.

[Jess]

Saying someone is born gay is like saying a thief is born a thief. Theviery is a leanred action, as well as homosexuality. Deal with it, haters.

Homosexuality is NOT learned. Did you LEARN to be a heterosexual?

[LunarScorpio]

I have no probs with them, and support them

[Harry Smith]

Against, to put in simple terms.

Great, I love how you compared homosexuals to thieves, you appear to say if your sig that your open to ladies, I doubt many will want you if you hold such bigoted and outdated views. It amazes me how anyone can be simply against homosexuality, I'm fine with people being opposed to gay marriage but to simply be against homosexuality is near enough Fascism

[BebeFleur.]

1) Homosexuality is genetic.
2) Depending on society people may LEARN they are homosexual.
3) Depending on society people may not want to expose themselves as homosexual.
4) Homosexual people are people too.
5) Homosexuality is not learned.

6-Somewhat different than rest of topic) Thieving is not necessarily learned. Though for many it is. Like, "I need a new DVD. Ehh, I don't want to pay." For others, though, it IS mental. They don't know that it is wrong, or they don't understand what they are doing.

[Mob Boss]

First of all, it's not really anyone's business what two consenting adults do or who they love. No one is harming you by loving another person. Secondly, if homsexuality was a choice, do you really think people would choose a lifestyle of ridicule? And I'm not just talking about the more socially accepting time we live in now, but all the way back to the late 1800's when homosexuals were a target for psychiatric interventions. The only reason you see more coming out today is because we've become so socially accepting. Though, as obvious by a few certain indiviuals in this thread, there are still those naive people that close their ears to anything they didn't hear from their parents. And as already stated, it's found in many, many speicies of animals - as many as 1,500. If you think homosexuality is simply sexual pleasure by sexual deviants, try to remember that not all animals have sexual intercourse for pleasure, most do it to...well, to reproduce. However, no species has been found in which homosexual behavior has not been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex at all.
Calling it unnatural just because it doesn't benefit the larger cause of the species continuation is pathetic. Some women can't get pregnant. Some men can't get women pregnant. Are they unnatural? Should they not have a partner because they can't reproduce? I mean, after all that's what it's about right, reproducing? Wrong.
And if we're going to refer to the bible and sinning, there are countless, ( some extremely ridicilous) things that are considered a sin in the bible. The Bible strictly forbids eating shellfish, pork, rabbits, blood and certain birds of prey such as eagles and vultures.
"Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee." -- Leviticus 19:19
Uh-oh, can't wear a cloth of wool and linen.
Ye shall not round the corners of your heads." -- Leviticus 19:27
Shaving is apparently a sin as well.
So how about everyone let people love who they want. It certainly isn't hurting you. No one is making threads wondering if heterosexuals choose to be straight, yet there are countless ones about homosexuality. This topic is tired, as well as the half-brained remarks against it.

[CountryGuy]

Homosexuality is NOT learned. Did you LEARN to be a heterosexual?

Yes, actually. I learned I like vagina better than dicks.

[Mob Boss]

Yes, actually. I learned I like vagina better than dicks.

That's called discovering your sexuality, but nice try. Being vulgar isn't getting your point across any better or making you sound anymore intelligent, ya know? Did you teach yourself to like girls? Or did it come naturally? If it's the former, that's just sad. Sorry if I'm being a.."hater", or whatever it is you call normal people with open minds, I'm just seriously interested in how you taught yourself to like the people you like. It's somewhat fascinating.

[StoppingTime]

That's called discovering your sexuality, but nice try. Being vulgar isn't getting your point across any better or making you sound anymore intelligent, ya know? Did you teach yourself to like girls? Or did it come naturally? If it's the former, that's just sad. Sorry if I'm being a.."hater", or whatever it is you call normal people with open minds, I'm just seriously interested in how you taught yourself to like the people you like. It's somewhat fascinating.

Yea, this. And you're not really helping your point by making the assumption that being straight means you "like vagina" and being gay means you don't.

[TheRashad]

The normal thing is to be born hetrosexual and homosexuality is a choice just like being a doctor or engineer.

If you say it is genetic ,According to the law of dominant traits the dominant trait is the normal and the other trait is abnormal and not common

[Sir Suomi]

It's been proven that it's been here since the beginning of human civilization. It's been proven that both the Greeks and Romans were open to homosexuality, and look how they turned out, excluding their eventually endings, which for the most part was an external force instead of an internal. Hell, Jesus himself said nothing was wrong with homosexuality. The only times it's mentioned is in the Old Testament, the same Old Testament that thought stoning a woman to death was perfectly acceptable, and in books written by Peter, who quite easily could have done so for a political motive, as he was the first leader of what we be know as the Christian Church, to gain more power.

[Mob Boss]

The normal thing is to be born hetrosexual and homosexuality is a choice just like being a doctor or engineer.

If you say it is genetic ,According to the law of dominant traits the dominant trait is the normal and the other trait is abnormal and not common

That doesn't mean that trait doesn't exist or is cancelled out becuase it is uncommon. That just means it's......uncommon. -_- You just contradicted yourself by saying the normal thing is to be born heterosexual but homosexuality is a choice, then you go on to talk about traits. Sorry to burst your bubble, but if it is a trait it wouldn't be a choice.

[TheRashad]

Homosexuality is harmful to the body from the Psycholoical and sexual point
Check those

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16173359/

www.thinkchristianly.org/can-gay-people-change-is-it-psychologically-harmful-to-make-them-try/

[Gigablue]

The normal thing is to be born hetrosexual and homosexuality is a choice just like being a doctor or engineer.

Given the stigma associated with homosexuality, why would people choose it? Saying it is a choice just doesn't make sense. People do have the choice as to how they identify themselves, and how they express their sexuality. But their actual sexuality isn't a choice.

If you say it is genetic ,According to the law of dominant traits the dominant trait is the normal and the other trait is abnormal and not common

You clearly don't understand genetics. Dominant traits are not necessarily normal. For example, having five fingers is a recessive trait, while having four is dominant. However, the majority of people have five fingers because the recessive gene is much more common than the dominant one.

Dominance only refers to how a gene is expressed in heterozygotes. The allele that affects the phenotype is the dominant one, and the one that doesn't is the recessive one. Dominance says absolutely nothing about gene frequency, only gene expression.

[theatreguy]

Homosexuality is harmful to the body from the Psycholoical and sexual point
Check those

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16173359/

www.thinkchristianly.org/can-gay-people-change-is-it-psychologically-harmful-to-make-them-try/

Your 1st link is 8 years old. The second one is religious, so doesn't count.

Try again?

[Magus]

Homosexuality is harmful to the body from the Psycholoical and sexual point

Your links are ancient and are not backed up by scientific research, and mostly half-baked opinion. Try again next time.

Gays live happily with the way they are.

[Gigablue]

Homosexuality is harmful to the body from the Psycholoical and sexual point
Check those

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16173359/

www.thinkchristianly.org/can-gay-people-change-is-it-psychologically-harmful-to-make-them-try/

The first link is to a study done by the family research institute, which is a well known anti-gay group. Not exactly a fair study.

The second is just religious propaganda with no scientific data to support its conclusions.

[BebeFleur.]

No one can say what is right or wrong. Homosexuality is who a person is, and by saying you can't be homosexual you are saying they can't be who they are which is criminal.

[Snookers]

Long story short. Some people are born homosexual. It's in their genes. They cannot do nothing about it. Neither can someone else.

[Celtic.]

Yes, actually. I learned I like vagina better than dicks.

i cant stop laughing at this post.

Long story short. Some people are born homosexual. It's in their genes. They cannot do nothing about it. Neither can someone else.no and i dare you to find proof of it.

[Harry Smith]

i cant stop laughing at this post.

no and i dare you to find proof of it.

Yes, believe me I would know

[Celtic.]

nobody is born gay. point blank period. hell your technically born str8 if your a male. You have to get milk from a nipple On a woman which means your sucking a woman's Brest

[Harry Smith]

nobody is born gay. point blank period. hell your technically born str8 if your a male. You have to get milk from a nipple On a woman which means your sucking a woman's Brest

that is the most stupid example I've ever heard. Point blank period you are not only stupid but mental

[Celtic.]

im stupid for not agreeing that people are not born gay? there not. wheres the proof wheres the evidence? are people born Bisexual too? are people born str8 as well? is that why in the 50's and 60's people were more likley to be str8 then gay? did some chemical unbalance turn babies gay?

[Harry Smith]

im stupid for not agreeing that people are not born gay? there not. wheres the proof wheres the evidence? are people born Bisexual too? are people born str8 as well? is that why in the 50's and 60's people were more likley to be str8 then gay? did some chemical unbalance turn babies gay?

Your stupid for using a terrible example such as breast feeding before, a baby doesn't breast feed for sexual reasons, it does it to get milk. Some babies don't even breast feed, proving your example to be useless and pointless.

The reason why they were less 'outed' gays in the 50's was because of the social stigma, that is why there appears to be less gays in records because many men simply hid it.

You really don't understand how sexuality works do you?
Did you choose to be straight?

[Celtic.]

You really don't understand how sexuality works do you?
Did you choose to be straight?
nope but i wasent born that way either.
and why can you not show me proof. Is there no proof?

[Abigballofdust]

im stupid for not agreeing that people are not born gay? there not. wheres the proof wheres the evidence? are people born Bisexual too? are people born str8 as well? is that why in the 50's and 60's people were more likley to be str8 then gay? did some chemical unbalance turn babies gay?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-173878/Boys-big-brothers-likely-gay.html
This is proof that you're ALSO born gay.
I do not deny that you can become gay during your development years, but there's also strong proof that you can be forged gay.
Also, a 7% recurrence of gay people in the total population is also a strong proof for the genetic source of homosexuality.

[Harry Smith]

nope but i wasent born that way either.
and why can you not show me proof. Is there no proof?

So you don't choose to be Straight? It's part of your fundamental identity is it not?

The very nice member above me posted some evidence and he is something that I found.

Gay men and straight women have, on average, equally proportioned brain hemispheres. Lesbian women and straight men have, on average, slightly larger right brain hemispheres

[Celtic.]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-173878/Boys-big-brothers-likely-gay.html
This is proof that you're ALSO born gay.
I do not deny that you can become gay during your development years, but there's also strong proof that you can be forged gay.
Also, a 7% recurrence of gay people in the total population is also a strong proof for the genetic source of homosexuality.
Oh when i read that article all i could shout was Bs. SO there like a gay gene? you serious with this? how is it after all these years NOW you can find this. Is there a str8 gene? is there a Bisexual gene? oh oh if you are only child does that make you more likely to be bisexual?
Gay men and straight women have, on average, equally proportioned brain hemispheres. Lesbian women and straight men have, on average, slightly larger right brain hemispheresohh woooowwwwww what the Hell did this prove?
do bisexual people have equally bigger brain hemispheres. DId this info come from a doctor or SCIENTIST?

[Harry Smith]

Oh when i read that article all i could shout was Bs. SO there like a gay gene? you serious with this? how is it after all these years NOW you can find this. Is there a str8 gene? is there a Bisexual gene? oh oh if you are only child does that make you more likely to be bisexual?
ohh woooowwwwww what the Hell did this prove?

aha the typical give me the evidence.... this evidence doesn't prove anything routine.

But once again back onto the wider picture.

Could you personally sleep with a man?

[Celtic.]

Could you personally sleep with a man?hmm. after thinking about it. Possibly. If the guy was the right size and everything. Well that answer doesn't seem very str8 but its the truth.


but i have a question for you mister harry. You belevie in evolution yes? and monkeys are what 98.8 percent like humans right? if you beleive man can be born gay then were are the gay monkeys. And if there are none How did we magically develop this trait

[Harry Smith]

hmm. after thinking about it. Possibly. If the guy was the right size and everything. Well that answer doesn't seem very str8 but its the truth.


but i have a question for you mister harry. You belevie in evolution yes? and monkeys are what 98.8 percent like humans right? if you beleive man can be born gay then were are the gay monkeys. And if there are none How did we magically develop this trait

Don't belittle me, have some respect.

You sound like some sort of Neo nazi, do monkeys live with each other in houses? Do monkeys have exclusive relationships? Do monkeys have a Geneva convention on Ape rights?

We are more emotionally intelligent than monkeys, once again your just using a very weird and very wrong example to try and twist your own hypothesis.

we have 58% of the same DNA banana and do you want to know something mate, have you ever seen a gay banana? Do you see how stupid your idea is now.

I know that homosexuality is not a chose because I simply cannot choose to be straight. I can't pick and choose. I know that I was born gay. I'm proud of that. Do you really think that some many members of the LGBT would of killed themself if they could simply become straight?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7456588.stm

[Abigballofdust]

Oh when i read that article all i could shout was Bs. SO there like a gay gene? you serious with this? how is it after all these years NOW you can find this. Is there a str8 gene? is there a Bisexual gene? oh oh if you are only child does that make you more likely to be bisexual?

So you're an academic now and have enough knowledge to disprove my links?
I remind you those were researches conducted by strict statistics rules and have recieved acknowledgments by important institutions.
You call bullshit some sheer science, I think further discussion with you is useless.

[Celtic.]

We are more emotionally intelligent than monkeys, once again your just using a very weird and very wrong example to try and twist your own hypothesis. show me that. Show me it.

I know that homosexuality is not a chose because I simply cannot choose to be straight. I can't pick and choose. I know that I was born gay. I'm proud of that. Do you really think that some many members of the LGBT would of killed themself if they could simply become straight?they are a part of lgbt so they cant become str8 if they are already gay

also you can probably choose to like women more than men. but if you want to believe you were born gay then fine.


notice how he ranted and could not answer the below question
if you beleive man can be born gay then were are the gay monkeys. And if there are none How did we magically develop this trait

So you're an academic now and have enough knowledge to disprove my links?
I remind you those were researches conducted by strict statistics rules and have recieved acknowledgments by important institutions.
You call bullshit some sheer science, I think further discussion with you is useless. ok now here comes you. read the article again.....where does it prove you can be Born gay. i just read it 5 times

[Harry Smith]

show me that. Show me it.

they are a part of lgbt so they cant become str8 if they are already gay

also you can probably choose to like women more than men. but if you want to believe you were born gay then fine.


notice how he ranted and could not answer the below question


ok now here comes you. read the article again.....where does it prove you can be Born gay. i just read it 5 times

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7456588.stm

This will shut you up, read it...

This is me answering your question. Please try and argue with this scientific evidence because I'm sure someone as stupid as you will try.

Also you said that 'they are a part of lgbt so they cant become str8 if they are already gay' So by your stupid theory you pick your sexuality and then it's stuck forever?

You have no theory, you have no idea about science and you should not lecture me on my own sexuality... I know a fuck lot more than you do about what I want you arrogant twat

[Celtic.]

was this study tested on an 100% human baby. or on grown men and women?

[Harry Smith]

was this study tested on an 100% human baby. or on grown men and women?

100 percent human baby? I didn't know that they had mastered hybrids yet. This pretty much sums it up, I'm debating with someone who reckons that my theory was tasted on some sort of Frankenstein.

When these results were collected, it was found that lesbians and heterosexual men shared a particular "asymmetry" in their hemisphere size, while heterosexual women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain.
In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.
A further experiment found that in one particular area of the brain, the amygdala, there were other significant differences.
In heterosexual men and gay women, there were more nerve "connections" in the right side of the amygdala, compared with the left.

I quoted it for you, now you don't even have to open up the link.

It says that the genetic structure between straight and gay men is different in the Brain, showing that it is not a choice but that it physically determined by your brain structure something you cannot control

[Celtic.]

so the experiment was not done on a baby as you have proven with random rambling. when it is experimented on a baby with the same results then i'll believe you. otherwise im done

[Harry Smith]

so the experiment was not done on a baby as you have proven with random rambling. when it is experimented on a baby with the same results then i'll believe you. otherwise im done

Have you ever done a science lesson.

All the scientific community say that the date is reliable, yet you seem to think that you know better than someone with a degree. You can't do CT scans on babies for gay research... have you heard of Puberty.

Gay's and straight people have different brain connections, this is the link you were mentioning before. The brain will develop from a baby with the same brain, it just needs to develop. Hence why adults are tested.

A scientist in the report states calle Dr Qazi Rahman, a lecturer in cognitive biology at Queen Mary, University of London, said that he believed that these brain differences were laid down early in foetal development.
"As far as I'm concerned there is no argument any more - if you are gay, you are born gay," he said.

so you think that you know more about brain development than he does? I believe the respected scientist rather than some arrogant nut case on a forum

[Celtic.]

experimented on a baby with the same results then i'll believe you.
if you were born gay the left side of your brain would already be bigger than the right.

[Harry Smith]

experimented on a baby with the same results then i'll believe you.

You should become a scientist.

The whole academic community says that it is not a choice, I provided sources to prove this yet you became obessed with babies. If you want to be a delusional idiot fine by me

[Celtic.]

are you angry because i came with logic that you cant prove wrong or correct? if you were born gay the left side of your brain would already be bigger than your right its that simple.

[Harry Smith]

are you angry because i came with logic that you cant prove wrong or correct? if you were born gay the left side of your brain would already be bigger than your right its that simple.

Logic... you do humor me.

Are you saying that Dr Qazi Rahman is wrong?

[Celtic.]

i like watermelon!
this is me not answering a damn question that could prove me wrong

[StoppingTime]

nobody is born gay. point blank period. hell your technically born str8 if your a male. You have to get milk from a nipple On a woman which means your sucking a woman's Brest

i like watermelon!
this is me not answering a damn question that could prove me wrong

Good, so you've been proven wrong by facts, sources and evidence. And if you can't rebuttal a point (hint: there's no logical way you can) don't post meaninglessly.

[Celtic.]

he has the potential to prove me wrong if he can show me were the test was done on a baby. but he cant.

[Abigballofdust]

he has the potential to prove me wrong if he can show me were the test was done on a baby. but he cant.

The brain size thing is a new finding. You'd need to CT a huge amount of babies and then follow the huge amount of babies through their development and see if they eventually turn gay once they hit puberty.
Since this is way too expensive and long lasting and since structural brain changes are kind of impossible throughout life, it's far easier to find a correlation between brain sizes and sexual orientations and call it pre born than go through the whole hassle of a 15 years long research only to kill the never ending idiocy that I choose to like dick as opposed to being chosen to like dick.

[Snookers]

i cant stop laughing at this post.

no and i dare you to find proof of it.

" Scientific and medical understanding is that sexual orientation is not a choice, but rather a complex interplay of biological and environmental factors,[1][3] especially with regard to early uterine environment.[4] While there are those who still hold the view that homosexual activity is "unnatural" or "dysfunctional",[5][6] research has shown that homosexuality is an example of a normal and natural variation in human sexuality and is not in and of itself a source of negative psychological effects. "

-Wikipedia


"Is homosexuality a mental disorder?
No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras."

-http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx


"To be specific, the new theory suggests that homosexuality is caused by epigenetic marks, or “epi-marks,” related to sensitivity to hormones in the womb. These are compounds that sit on DNA and regulate how active, or inactive certain genes are, and also control when during development these genes are most prolific."

-http://healthland.time.com/2012/12/13/new-insight-into-the-epigenetic-roots-of-homosexuality/

[Human]

Stop the flaming or I will lock this thread

[Jean Poutine]

are you angry because i came with logic that you cant prove wrong or correct? if you were born gay the left side of your brain would already be bigger than your right its that simple.

Your little test would prove nothing at all. A brain develops throughout infancy and puberty and actually is only done by age 20 or so. Being "born gay" could simply mean having the genetic markers necessary so that your brain develops the differences he has mentioned in that timespan. It is still something completely out of your control, like some people are born with the genes necessary for multiple sclerosis to develop. They are still born that way. Your "logic" is faulty and honestly, I hope that you are a troll because nobody else could spout so much nonsense.

By the way, bonobo chimpazees are famous for having fully bisexual monkeys. Homosexual individuals have been reported in every member of the great ape family. Find sources on your own, it's honestly not worth my time to.

Now let the adults speak.

PS : no need for monkeys, rams exhibit exclusive sexual preferences that is conditioned by the development of their brains, all other things being equal : http://endo.endojournals.org/content/145/2/478.full.pdf+html

[StoppingTime]

Just to add on to Connor's warning:


If you're going to be throwing around direct insults, you'll not only find this thread locked, but you'll have infractions too. VT isn't the place for immature name calling. You're expected to actually act mature, so either act it or you'll find yourself with the consequences.

[Rayquaza]

People should respect other people's opinions rather than having to demand for needless sources that may or may not come from somewhere reliable. A source can range anywhere between someone's opinion on the matter all the way to someone actually having findings from an experiment.

I support homosexuality. Why?

-Regardless of any proof being needed, social norms have changed over time, from when it was seen to be unacceptable to acceptable. There will always be a small minority choosing to anti-conform as they would rather stick to "tradition", and even though that minority will continue to exist, the amount of people will decrease. And why wouldn't it? Homosexuality does not affect anyone else. If two women decide to be with each other, what goes on between them is entirely their business, not ours.

-Homosexuality can be supported by people being born gay and discovering it, innate, or people learning it through Psychosexual Development (oral/anal fixation). If it was innate, it means that men and women were MEANT to give birth to gay children and the resulting child should be homosexual. On the other hand, if it was learned, it then demonstrates that no one is actually assigned a sexuality until they have impacts in their life that affect it. This means that heterosexuality may not be "normal" either and that both heterosexuality and homosexuality should always exist.

-Shunning homosexuality serves no actual legal or moral purpose. Society looks down at those who bully. Homosexuality is something that can't be helped, something like skin colour. It's just as bad as racism. Calling someone something that is offensive to their skin colour has the exact some connotations to someone being called a homophobic comment to a homosexual person. And it doesn't serve a legal purpose as there is no benefit of rejecting homosexuals. Even gay marriage being banned supports no real legality. If two guys having sex irritates someone, ignore it. Look at vegetarians, they put up with people everyday with people eating meat and they don't throw vegetables at them. They choose not to follow their lifestyle. And that's what homophobic people should do. If you don't like it, ignore it. Don't penalize them and make them feel like shit.

[AbernathyElkwood]

I don't think it can be catagorized as right or wrong. THAT is wrong. It's just nature.... Some people willbe different than others.

[PinkFloyd]

Labels mean absolutely nothing at all to me. Well unless you're labeled as a serial killer or something...

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Saying someone is born gay is like saying a thief is born a thief. Theviery is a leanred action, as well as homosexuality. Deal with it, haters.

Really? This makes no sense.
If you knew how the fuck people figure out their sexuality, you'd know the illogicality of this statement.

[randomnessqueen]

sexual preference doesnt change a thing to me

[pokedragonS8]

100 percent human baby? I didn't know that they had mastered hybrids yet. This pretty much sums it up, I'm debating with someone who reckons that my theory was tasted on some sort of Frankenstein.

When these results were collected, it was found that lesbians and heterosexual men shared a particular "asymmetry" in their hemisphere size, while heterosexual women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain.
In other words, structurally, at least, the brains of gay men were more like heterosexual women, and gay women more like heterosexual men.
A further experiment found that in one particular area of the brain, the amygdala, there were other significant differences.
In heterosexual men and gay women, there were more nerve "connections" in the right side of the amygdala, compared with the left.

I quoted it for you, now you don't even have to open up the link.

It says that the genetic structure between straight and gay men is different in the Brain, showing that it is not a choice but that it physically determined by your brain structure something you cannot control

This is interesting...

Though do you know how it works for Bi's, Pan's and Asexuals? Do their brains also have different structures?

[GigglyAbby]

Seriously -- most of the things we do can be phased as abnormal but it seems like radicals pick on the lesser of 2 evils -- guys praise guys who get lucky and if a girl does it too much she's a slut -- premarital sex - hooking up - and adultery have higher prevalence than homosexuality or bisexuality but who gets ridiculed more? Life is about achievements and being happy so I'd be in favor of a gay committed couple over a person who has hookups quite often.

[Jasperf]

I accept gays and lesbians but I think homosex isn't the nature we were created for and I think that homosexuality is abnormal.
What about you?

Man you have dug yourself a hole, so deep. Your lucking its late at night, for when I wake up I'm gonna rant.

experimented on a baby with the same results then i'll believe you.
if you were born gay the left side of your brain would already be bigger than the right.

Not necessarily, the brain of a baby, like the baby has barley started growing, you can't look at the baby Nd say that it will be 180 tall, as you have no idea what it's Hight will be.

im stupid for not agreeing that people are not born gay? there not. wheres the proof wheres the evidence? are people born Bisexual too? are people born str8 as well? is that why in the 50's and 60's people were more likley to be str8 then gay? did some chemical unbalance turn babies gay?

No there were more straights then gays because society would not allow homosexuality!

Homosexuality has been documented in over 450 species around the world. Homophobia is found in only one.....................................

..............Think about that

Great post, just what I was gonna say!

It's not natural that's for sure. I'm completely against it and I couldn't give a rip what anyone says. I hate the sin love the sinner, I will be friends with any homosexual and treat them just like anybody else. Before you go beating me up for saying homosexuality is a sin, we're all sinners, (whether you accept that or not is your decision) and I am chief among them.

It cannot be completely natural.Enviroment and the things around that human are as affective as genetics are.
For example in Iran 0/907565 percent of males are gay and about 1/00231 percent of population are homosexual.
It is something based on the cultural atmosphere of a person and not all genetics.Genetics just can make that feeling happen sooner or later,but that atmosphere can prevent it for always or make it happen sooner.


You two, if it's not natural, then why does like every other species do it? It can't not be natural! It's two natural beings doing a natural act... How can this at all be classified as unnatural? Please enlighten me.


-merged multiple posts. -Emerald Dream

[Left Now]

Great post, just what I was gonna say!






You two, if it's not natural, then why does like every other species do it? It can't not be natural! It's two natural beings doing a natural act... How can this at all be classified as unnatural? Please enlighten me.

I said it is not completely natural;i mean the two species which do this,certainly will have sex with their opposite sex mates too.But a gay man,as he says,only chooses to be with his same sex partner and not another opposite sex mate.

Also,maybe it can be natural for other animals,but it may not be natural for humans.For example a mother-gorilla will clean her baby's dick(if it is male) with her mouth and by licking,but will a human mother ever do this to her baby?The answer is certainly NO.

[photojared]

homosexuality is normal, and in every race you have a normal and a abnormal in nature it happens

[britishboy]

homosexuality is normal, and in every race you have a normal and a abnormal in nature it happens

so theyre abnormal, and thats what makes them normal?

[photojared]

think about it

[BrandonA]

I don't support Gay Marriage. God said man and woman, Case closed

[saea97]

I don't support Gay Marriage. God said man and woman, Case closed

-How can you prove God actually said this?
-Why does this give you the power to restrict my human rights?
-What if you're actually just wilfully bigoted?

Case reopened.

[Harry Smith]

I don't support Gay Marriage. God said man and woman, Case closed

Spoiler*God isn't real* Spoiler

Why should a man in the sky have anything to do with my rights, why can't I have the same rights as you?

[Rayquaza]

God said man and woman, Case closed

Proof?

[nice]

Spoiler*God isn't real* Spoiler

Why should a man in the sky have anything to do with my rights, why can't I have the same rights as you?

Where's proof god doesn't exist?

[Rayquaza]

Where's proof god doesn't exist?

Where's proof he/she does?

[nice]

Where's proof he/she does?

If I tried hard enough I could probably find it and your say its not rational or right but everyone who said god isn't real has never given any proof he isn't real. If you can find proof he doesn't first then I'll find counter examples??

[Origami]

Spoiler*God isn't real* Spoiler

Why should a man in the sky have anything to do with my rights, why can't I have the same rights as you?

Cool story, bro.

Proof?

Read the Bible. Every context of marriage is written Man-Woman.

Where's proof he/she does?

Let's not get in this argument. Neither side will win.



;;; On another note. Divine law is not Earthly law. The laws of Earth were made by man and it is for man, not divine deities, to decide their own laws here. If man says gay marriage should be allowed, allow it. You don't have to approve of or support it.

[teen.jpg]

How can you say it's unnatural? Isn't everything we do natural because we're part of nature? No other creature in nature tells each other what's "natural" or not. Why should we?

[saea97]

If I tried hard enough I could probably find it and your say its not rational or right but everyone who said god isn't real has never given any proof he isn't real. If you can find proof he doesn't first then I'll find counter examples??

This is NOT how a burden of proof works. Nobody can prove a negative definitively. Atheists can use science to speculate on the likeliness or unlikeliness of God existing, and a relevant factor towards that is your lack of evidence (as your claim IS measurable by scientific methods, while atheism is simply a rejection of your claim, not a counter-claim, and so there is nothing to apply science to). Therefore back on topic, the lack of evidence for God makes the claim "God says marriage is between a man and a woman" totally redundant with regard to providing a substantive argument against gay marriage.

I'd love to talk more about burden of proof in the "Religion" thread if you have more to say and not derail this particular debate.

[nice]

This is NOT how a burden of proof works. Nobody can prove a negative definitively. Atheists can use science to speculate on the likeliness or unlikeliness of God existing, and a relevant factor towards that is your lack of evidence (as your claim IS measurable by scientific methods, while atheism is simply a rejection of your claim, not a counter-claim, and so there is nothing to apply science to). Therefore back on topic, the lack of evidence for God makes the claim "God says marriage is between a man and a woman" totally redundant with regard to providing a substantive argument against gay marriage"

I'd love to talk more about burden of proof in the "Religion" thread if you have more to say and not derail this particular debate.

Um excuse you I'm not trying to derail this debate one bit so please get your facts straight. I never said I didn't believe in gay marriage if people are in love and want to get married let them. But that still doesn't mean it isn't a sin like lying and sex before marriage is sin. We live in sin daily. So do I support gay marriage?yep. Is it a sin? I don't know for the most part but it might be.

[Yolo2000]

I dont support gay marriage cuz I honestly think that all humans should reproduce in order to keep the Earth going and I think our purpose as humans is to reproduce but I could care less as long as they dont constantly pressure me to endorse gay marriage.

[Capto]

Why would anyone harm you.

[saea97]

Um excuse you I'm not trying to derail this debate one bit so please get your facts straight. I never said I didn't believe in gay marriage if people are in love and want to get married let them. But that still doesn't mean it isn't a sin like lying and sex before marriage is sin. We live in sin daily. So do I support gay marriage?yep. Is it a sin? I don't know for the most part but it might be.

I never said you were trying to derail anything. Quite the contrary; I knew that by posting the reply that I did I would be risking changing the topic of the thread to another God debate, which isn't relevant here. But I thought given your mistake with regard to proving existence, I'd drop in a paragraph on burden of proof. Hence, I added on that anything extra should be said in the other thread.

Anyway, back to it: how do you know that "sin" is even a meaningful word? If God's not real, the judgment that homosexuality is a sin is wrong.

[Yolo2000]

How can you say it's unnatural? Isn't everything we do natural because we're part of nature? No other creature in nature tells each other what's "natural" or not. Why should we?

It's unnatural cuz as humans we are supposed to reproduce in order to keep the human race going. If more and more people became gay then the amount of humans would slowly decline until there were hardly any left.

[Capto]

It's unnatural cuz as humans we are supposed to reproduce in order to keep the human race going. If more and more people became gay then the amount of humans would slowly decline until there were hardly any left.

Now that's just ridiculous. One does not simply 'become gay'.

[World Eater]

It's unnatural cuz as humans we are supposed to reproduce in order to keep the human race going. If more and more people became gay then the amount of humans would slowly decline until there were hardly any left.

Good. Like we really need another damn human wasting resources. Fuck our race.

[Yolo2000]

Why would anyone harm you.

What I meant was if they annoy me about it and constantly pressure me to endorse gay marriage. If they dont I could care less if they were gay or not.

[Origami]

It's unnatural cuz as humans we are supposed to reproduce in order to keep the human race going. If more and more people became gay then the amount of humans would slowly decline until there were hardly any left.

Then I'll argue that it's a natural pesticide to our outrageous population.


Doesn't matter. Right or wrong, let 'em marry.

[Jess]

I dont support gay marriage cuz I honestly think that all humans should reproduce in order to keep the Earth going and I think our purpose as humans is to reproduce but I could care less as long as they dont harm me.

So you'll look down on couples who are sterile or don't want children? They won't reproduce either. Example, me. I NEVER plan to have kids.

[Yolo2000]

So you'll look down on couples who are sterile or don't want children? They won't reproduce either. Example, me. I NEVER plan to have kids.

I'm just saying we should re-produce to keep the human race going. I dont look down on people who dont reproduce so stop making assumptions like that.

[Capto]

I'm just saying we should re-produce to keep the human race going. I dont look down on people who dont reproduce so stop making assumptions like that.

Why do we want more people? The worlds crowded enough as is. :c

[Jess]

The human population won't go into decline because gays will be able to marry. People can't just become "gay". And as Capto said, the world is already overcrowded. We don't really need more people.

[teen.jpg]

It's unnatural cuz as humans we are supposed to reproduce in order to keep the human race going. If more and more people became gay then the amount of humans would slowly decline until there were hardly any left.

1. So anybody who literally CAN'T reproduce are unnatural?

2. Being gay isn't some viral disease that's growing in numbers. People feel more confident being more open about it. So don't worry your pretty little head, you won't be infected by the gay.

3. In what way does anywhere from 1-5% of the world's population lead to the extinction of the human species?

[nice]

I never said you were trying to derail anything. Quite the contrary; I knew that by posting the reply that I did I would be risking changing the topic of the thread to another God debate, which isn't relevant here. But I thought given your mistake with regard to proving existence, I'd drop in a paragraph on burden of proof. Hence, I added on that anything extra should be said in the other thread.

Anyway, back to it: how do you know that "sin" is even a meaningful word? If God's not real, the judgment that homosexuality is a sin is wrong.

But if we just leave out the fact that theirs no proof to prove god real or fake and I choose to believe he's real I've never read the bible but I know enough people that have to tell me somewhere in there it says something about homosexuality being a sin it's a sin. There are plenty of LGBT people that are Christian and even they somewhat have thoughts that it might be sinful.

[Capto]

You might want to drop the paragraph about burden of proof right about meow.

[teen.jpg]

But if we just leave out the fact that theirs no proof to prove god real or fake and I choose to believe he's real I've never read the bible but I know enough people that have to tell me somewhere in there it says something about homosexuality being a sin it's a sin. There are plenty of LGBT people that are Christian and even they somewhat have thoughts that it might be sinful.

Why should it matter whether it's a sin or not? If we want to live happy, fulfilling lives, why should some ancient book ruin that?

[Yolo2000]

1. So anybody who literally CAN'T reproduce are unnatural?

2. Being gay isn't some viral disease that's growing in numbers. People feel more confident being more open about it. So don't worry your pretty little head, you won't be infected by the gay.

3. In what way does anywhere from 1-5% of the world's population lead to the extinction of the human species?

Did you read anything I just wrote? I said if more and more people became gay than the human population would gradually decrease. It's our purpose as humans to reproduce and I dont look down on those who cant.

[Jess]

Did you read anything I just wrote? I said if more and more people became gay than the human population would gradually decrease. It's our purpose as humans to reproduce and I dont look down on those who cant.

People can't become gay

Personally I think the human population needs to decrease.

[World Eater]

Did you read anything I just wrote? I said if more and more people became gay than the human population would gradually decrease. It's our purpose as humans to reproduce and I dont look down on those who cant.

And? There are 7 BILLION people in the world give or take. We don't need anymore.

[Origami]

Why should it matter whether it's a sin or not? If we want to live happy, fulfilling lives, why should some ancient book ruin that?

Assuming God exists (for the sake of argument) then if homosexuality is a sin it is strictly going against divine law. Such would then condemn a person to an eternal damnation. This is why it's important. For those who believe in a religious deity, the grounds of homosexuality being or not being a sin would weigh heavily on their lives and the choices they make.

[teen.jpg]

Did you read anything I just wrote? I said if more and more people became gay than the human population would gradually decrease. It's our purpose as humans to reproduce and I dont look down on those who cant.

Where are you getting this idea from? And who exactly are you to define what our purpose in life is?

[nice]

Why should it matter whether it's a sin or not? If we want to live happy, fulfilling lives, why should some ancient book ruin that?

It doesn't matter everyone sins I just answered a question that I think it's sinful. If I met a guy and we wanted to get married sure I'd do it even if its sinful but that still doesn't mean it's not a sin.

[teen.jpg]

Assuming God exists (for the sake of argument) then if homosexuality is a sin it is strictly going against divine law. Such would then condemn a person to an eternal damnation. This is why it's important. For those who believe in a religious deity, the grounds of homosexuality being or not being a sin would weigh heavily on their lives and the choices they make.

But if it ultimately makes them happy, nothing else matters. Why care what happens after death, when life is the longest and most meaningful thing you have. Don't throw it all away because your religion discourages it.

[nice]

Assuming God exists (for the sake of argument) then if homosexuality is a sin it is strictly going against divine law. Such would then condemn a person to an eternal damnation. This is why it's important. For those who believe in a religious deity, the grounds of homosexuality being or not being a sin would weigh heavily on their lives and the choices they make.

What does the bible say exactly about homosexuality?? If you were a god person wouldn't the good you've done outweigh the "bad" of homosexuality?

[teen.jpg]

It doesn't matter everyone sins I just answered a question that I think it's sinful. If I met a guy and we wanted to get married sure I'd do it even if its sinful but that still doesn't mean it's not a sin.

But if you don't really care why acknowledge it's a sin? Where is that even getting you?

[Origami]

But if it ultimately makes them happy, nothing else matters. Why care what happens after death, when life is the longest and most meaningful thing you have. Don't throw it all away because your religion discourages it.

Christianity for one believes in an afterlife. So no, your life on Earth isn't the longest thing you will have, rather, it's merely a moment in the rest of all of time. I'd rather be a little disgruntled for 100 years than swimming in fire for the rest of eternity, mind you.

[teen.jpg]

What does the bible say exactly about homosexuality?? If you were a god person wouldn't the good you've done outweigh the "bad" of homosexuality?

The current bible is filled with mistranslations and should be taken as literally as a Harry Potter novel ...

[nice]

But if you don't really care why acknowledge it's a sin? Where is that even getting you?

Because its my faith and what I believe in even if I go against it I'm not gonna try to make some loophole around it if its a sin it's a sin.

[teen.jpg]

Christianity for one believes in an afterlife. So no, your life on Earth isn't the longest thing you will have, rather, it's merely a moment in the rest of all of time. I'd rather be a little disgruntled for 100 years than swimming in fire for the rest of eternity, mind you.

Whose to say swimming in fire isn't fun? ;)

But seriously, nobody can prove theirs an afterlife. So you'll spend your whole life living in misery on the off-chance that it gets better after you die?

[Yolo2000]

But if it ultimately makes them happy, nothing else matters. Why care what happens after death, when life is the longest and most meaningful thing you have. Don't throw it all away because your religion discourages it.

As long as it makes them happy then it's a good thing. Afterall, there are high divorce rates in the U.S.A. lately. Like I said before it would be nice if all humans could reproduce but if gays are happily married then its a good thing.

[Origami]

Whose to say swimming in fire isn't fun? ;)

But seriously, nobody can prove theirs an afterlife. So you'll spend your whole life living in misery on the off-chance that it gets better after you die?

For those who don't believe in God, it's no biggy.

For the part of the LGBT community who affiliate themselves with the Christian faith and it's beliefs... to them it could seem very real.

[teen.jpg]

Because its my faith and what I believe in even if I go against it I'm not gonna try to make some loophole around it if its a sin it's a sin.

That makes no sense. Isn't the point of saying it's a sin is to not do it? And why is it a sin? And who is God to tell every person on the planet what's right or wrong?

(From a religious standpoint I probably seem ignorant, but it really doesn't make much sense.)

[Origami]

That makes no sense. Isn't the point of saying it's a sin is to not do it? And why is it a sin? And who is God to tell every person on the planet what's right or wrong?

(From a religious standpoint I probably seem ignorant, but it really doesn't make much sense.)

His point made perfect sense and is exactly what you said. Reread it.

And who is a God to decide? Well, in religion we were made by God... so I'd say he has a pretty big authority.

What does the bible say exactly about homosexuality?? If you were a god person wouldn't the good you've done outweigh the "bad" of homosexuality?

The Bible calls men discarding the natural use of a woman to lay with a man as they would a woman unnatural and an abomination for one...

Cities were burned in fire and brimstone in Biblical lore for giving into "ways of the flesh."

And I don't know. People assume that a God would love everything and everyone and like good people. I don't think it's unfair to say a God would love those who go against his laws.

[nice]

That makes no sense. Isn't the point of saying it's a sin is to not do it? And why is it a sin? And who is God to tell every person on the planet what's right or wrong?

(From a religious standpoint I probably seem ignorant, but it really doesn't make much sense.)

Do you lie??? That's a sin even if its just a tiny lie. Or if you've ever defied your parents that's a sin. And god is (not trying to sound like a religious bitch) the ruler and commander so I try to do what he'd want. As to why do something even if I know it's a sin? Sometimes it's to protect people's feeling sometimes it's just because I do dumb stuff so i don't know I can't answer that really.

[teen.jpg]

Do you lie??? That's a sin even if its just a tiny lie. Or if you've ever defied your parents that's a sin. And god is (not trying to sound like a religious bitch) the ruler and commander so I try to do what he'd want. As to why do something even if I know it's a sin? Sometimes it's to protect people's feeling sometimes it's just because I do dumb stuff so i don't know I can't answer that really.

So then if everyone sins, and it's completely unavoidable not to sin, then why should we care either way?

[nice]

And I don't know. People assume that a God would love everything and everyone and like good people. I don't think it's unfair to say a God would love those who go against his laws.

Yeah I think this would be true because the only perfect human being was Jesus. He died for our sins and if I remember right if you repent and try to live a better life everything would be fine.

[Origami]

So then if everyone sins, and it's completely unavoidable not to sin, then why should we care either way?

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

It's due to the promise of salvation through Christ. We are to aspire to live virtuous lives but it is not unforgivable that we make a mistake.

[nice]

So then if everyone sins, and it's completely unavoidable not to sin, then why should we care either way?

It's due to the promise of salvation through Christ. We are to aspire to live virtuous lives but it is not unforgivable that we make a mistake.

^^ this what he said.

[teen.jpg]

It's due to the promise of salvation through Christ. We are to aspire to live virtuous lives but it is not unforgivable that we make a mistake.

So then why does everyone get so emotional about homosexuality?

[Origami]

So then why does everyone get so emotional about homosexuality?

Personally, I believe we should let others do as they please. I mean, for those of us who believe they'll meet the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah why does it effect us?

People get emotional about homosexuality for whatever number of reasons. I think most Christians get emotional because the Bible says that marriage is namely between a man and a woman over and over and over again as if to beat a dead horse.

[teen.jpg]

Personally, I believe we should let others do as they please. I mean, for those of us who believe they'll meet the same fate as Sodom and Gomorrah why does it effect us?

People get emotional about homosexuality for whatever number of reasons. I think most Christians get emotional because the Bible says that marriage is namely between a man and a woman over and over and over again as if to beat a dead horse.

But that's nearly the only thing that these religious people are talking about anymore. Murder is like the worst thing ever, and it happens everyday, and I never see any Christians condemning them and calling them sinners.

[saea97]

But if we just leave out the fact that theirs no proof to prove god real or fake and I choose to believe he's real I've never read the bible but I know enough people that have to tell me somewhere in there it says something about homosexuality being a sin it's a sin.

Well, if the Bible is 100% true, homosexuality is a sin. Your choice to believe the Bible doesn't amount to any evidence at all as to its truth, so there's no reason to believe that homosexuality is a sin. I get that you believe it, but there's no logical reason to.


There are plenty of LGBT people that are Christian and even they somewhat have thoughts that it might be sinful.

I don't see how this matters either way, although I do wonder about how depressing it must be for them that their own religion could thoroughly condemn their unchangeable nature which they did not choose.

[nice]

Well, if the Bible is 100% true, homosexuality is a sin. Your choice to believe the Bible doesn't amount to any evidence at all as to its truth, so there's no reason to believe that homosexuality is a sin. I get that you believe it, but there's no logical reason to.




I don't see how this matters either way, although I do wonder about how depressing it must be for them that their own religion could thoroughly condemn their unchangeable nature which they did not choose.

Just like theirs no logical reason not to believe it. It's not really that bad you just since some churches accept it you just have to find those kind of churches.

[Origami]

But that's nearly the only thing that these religious people are talking about anymore. Murder is like the worst thing ever, and it happens everyday, and I never see any Christians condemning them and calling them sinners.

Murderers aren't parading the streets for freedom either...

No Christian condones the actions of murders and such and they are considered sinners by all Christians. Murder is against one of the Ten Commandments after all.

[teen.jpg]

Murderers aren't parading the streets for freedom either...


I sense a slightly homophobic type of sarcasm in that statement ...

[saea97]

Just like theirs no logical reason not to believe it.

We're back to the burden of proof, then. There's no scientific evidence that a sentient, invisible teapot orbiting Neptune doesn't dictate all the laws of physics and morality. Just because a claim "could" be true doesn't seem to me to be ample grounds to believe it. It's the positive claim that requires evidence, not the rejection of the claim.

[Origami]

I sense a slightly homophobic type of sarcasm in that statement ...

I'm not homophobic in the least bit. It was a legitimate statement to counter your outrageous comparison.

[Jasperf]

Because its my faith and what I believe in even if I go against it I'm not gonna try to make some loophole around it if its a sin it's a sin.

Okay so do you know where in the bible it says that homosexuality is wrong?

[Capto]

Okay so do you know where in the bible it says that homosexuality is wrong?

Leviticus.

[Jasperf]

I don't support Gay Marriage. God said man and woman, Case closed

Just because there is gay marriage, that doesn't mean that heterosexual couples will suddenly stop existing. Just because god happend to not mention something doent mean you can fill in the gaps with what ever you want to be there.

Leviticus.

Okay great so you know that, do you know what eles it says in Leviticus?


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Capto]

Okay great so you know that, do you know what eles it says in Leviticus?

Why would I? You asked, and I delivered.

[Jasperf]

Why would I? You asked, and I delivered.

Well in Leviticus it says quite a lot of things actually (: so if you think that homosexuality is wrong because Leviticus says so, and therefore homosexuals will go to hell, I've got bad news for you mate.
. Ever wanted something like more money? Your going to hell
. Ever eaten chicken? Going to hell
. Ever worn a wool mix sweater? Going to hell
. Ever ripped a shirt, or pair of jeans? Going to hell
. Ever eaten a piece of steak with some nice fatty juices? Guess what, under your beliefs this means your going to Hell!
Perhaps learn a bit more about what your fighting for before you start fighting.

[Gigablue]

Why would I? You asked, and I delivered.

The laws of leviticus are simply absurd, and I can guarantee you don't follow them all. It bans things like wearing clothes made from different fabrics, planting two types of crops in the same field, and eating seafood. Seeing as no one abides by those ridiculous laws, why should anyone abide by the equally ridiculous law against homosexuality?

[Capto]

Well in Leviticus it says quite a lot of things actually (: so if you think that homosexuality is wrong because Leviticus says so, and therefore homosexuals will go to hell, I've got bad news for you mate.
. Ever wanted something like more money? Your going to hell
. Ever eaten chicken? Going to hell
. Ever worn a wool mix sweater? Going to hell
. Ever ripped a shirt, or pair of jeans? Going to hell
. Ever eaten a piece of steak with some nice fatty juices? Guess what, under your beliefs this means your going to Hell!
Perhaps learn a bit more about what your fighting for before you start fighting.

The laws of leviticus are simply absurd, and I can guarantee you don't follow them all. It bans things like wearing clothes made from different fabrics, planting two types of crops in the same field, and eating seafood. Seeing as no one abides by those ridiculous laws, why should anyone abide by the equally ridiculous law against homosexuality?

I'm not for or against anything. I didn't start fighting. I don't have a strong opinion here. You literally asked where the Bible said homosexuality was wrong, and I answered. Don't be so mad.

[teen.jpg]

The laws of leviticus are simply absurd, and I can guarantee you don't follow them all. It bans things like wearing clothes made from different fabrics, planting two types of crops in the same field, and eating seafood. Seeing as no one abides by those ridiculous laws, why should anyone abide by the equally ridiculous law against homosexuality?

This.

[Jasperf]

The laws of leviticus are simply absurd, and I can guarantee you don't follow them all. It bans things like wearing clothes made from different fabrics, planting two types of crops in the same field, and eating seafood. Seeing as no one abides by those ridiculous laws, why should anyone abide by the equally ridiculous law against homosexuality?

Heha I think you'll like my above post :p

I'm not for or against anything. I didn't start fighting. I don't have a strong opinion here. You literally asked where the Bible said homosexuality was wrong, and I answered. Don't be so mad.

Oh I'm not mad, I though you were preaching a religion, sorry man if I got the wrong idea, but hopefully some churchy guy against homosexuals will see that.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Capto]

The laws of leviticus are simply absurd, and I can guarantee you don't follow them all. It bans things like wearing clothes made from different fabrics, planting two types of crops in the same field, and eating seafood. Seeing as no one abides by those ridiculous laws, why should anyone abide by the equally ridiculous law against homosexuality?

I have no opinion on the subject. Thus, this above post is invalid to me.

Oh I'm not mad, I though you were preaching a religion, sorry man if I got the wrong idea, but hopefully some churchy guy against homosexuals will see that.

Nah, I was just pointing you towards Leviticus. I wasn't meaning to do anything but that.

[Jasperf]

Well, if the Bible is 100% true, homosexuality is a sin. Your choice to believe the Bible doesn't amount to any evidence at all as to its truth, so there's no reason to believe that homosexuality is a sin. I get that you believe it, but there's no logical reason to.




I don't see how this matters either way, although I do wonder about how depressing it must be for them that their own religion could thoroughly condemn their unchangeable nature which they did not choose.

I'm not homophobic in the least bit. It was a legitimate statement to counter your outrageous comparison.

I hope you know where in the bible it says homosexuality is wrong mate
. And if you do then tell me that you haven't done any of the things it says are wrong in that book of ____

Leviticus.

Yeh, I know :p it's a bit of a rhetorical question haha to get Nice to answer me so I could get on to all of the ridiculous things that Leviticus says.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Capto]

Yeh, I know :p it's a bit of a rhetorical question haha to get Nice to answer me so I could get on to all of the ridiculous things that Leviticus says.

No problem. :)

[Origami]

I hope you know where in the bible it says homosexuality is wrong mate
. And if you do then tell me that you haven't done any of the things it says are wrong in that book of ____

I do know. And actually, the majority of the laws in Leviticus I have and do abide by. *Gasp!* Didn't see that one coming, did you? Hot damn.

Anyway. It's obvious no one will follow all of the Biblical laws set forth in Leviticus or any other part of the Old Testament. Read Romans as I posted above, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." However, your claim above of how this instantly damns us to Hell is incorrect. God promises salvation through Christ. You are incorrect to assume God hates sinners. God does not. The common, "God hates gays" slogan is also incorrect. God hates sin, not sinners.

Yes, homosexuality is called an abomination and cities were bathed in fire for committing this and other acts in the Old Testament, but they weren't burned for being impure, they were burned for refusing to try and purge themselves of their sinful ways. The assumption that the LGBT community will go to Hell may or may not be correct as well. The Bible never condemns homosexuals or homosexuality. It does, however, condemn the actions of homosexuals such as same sex intercourse saying that a man should not discard the natural use of a woman and lay with a man as he would a woman.

This "loophole" if you want to call it that, is the only actual reason I don't get irate about homosexual Christians, because TECHNICALLY, they aren't sinning unless they engage in sexual activities with one another. This is also why I'm not against same-sex marriage. I couldn't care less, to be honest.

[Jasperf]

I do know. And actually, the majority of the laws in Leviticus I have and do abide by. *Gasp!* Didn't see that one coming, did you? Hot damn.

Wow :o so you've never even ripped a piece of clothing, or eaten a slow cooked roast, or shaved!


Anyway. It's obvious no one will follow all of the Biblical laws set forth in Leviticus or any other part of the Old Testament. Read Romans as I posted above, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." However, your claim above of how this instantly damns us to Hell is incorrect. God promises salvation through Christ. You are incorrect to assume God hates sinners. God does not. The common, "God hates gays" slogan is also incorrect. God hates sin, not sinners.

I know that there are separate penalties for each of the laws in Leviticus, the reason that said that they all equaled you going to he'll is because in an earlier post someone stated that homosexuals go to hell, when by the laws and consequences in Leviticus, they should only be put to death.
Hope this helps explain my reasoning :)

[nice]

Well in Leviticus it says quite a lot of things actually (: so if you think that homosexuality is wrong because Leviticus says so, and therefore homosexuals will go to hell, I've got bad news for you mate.
. Ever wanted something like more money? Your going to hell
. Ever eaten chicken? Going to hell
. Ever worn a wool mix sweater? Going to hell
. Ever ripped a shirt, or pair of jeans? Going to hell
. Ever eaten a piece of steak with some nice fatty juices? Guess what, under your beliefs this means your going to Hell!
Perhaps learn a bit more about what your fighting for before you start fighting.

If I was informed right those were laws in the old testaments not things god said.

[Origami]

If I was informed right those were laws in the old testaments not things god said.

These were laws created by God for man in the Old Testament delivered to the people of Israel.

Wow :o so you've never even ripped a piece of clothing, or eaten a slow cooked roast, or shaved!

Are you being sarcastic or are you just that dense? You clearily failed to read my post completely. Reread it for your own sake then refer to the following passage from Romans;

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


I know that there are separate penalties for each of the laws in Leviticus, the reason that said that they all equaled you going to he'll is because in an earlier post someone stated that homosexuals go to hell, when by the laws and consequences in Leviticus, they should only be put to death.
Hope this helps explain my reasoning :)

And if you read my post clearly you would see where I said that they are, in fact, incorrect. Homosexuals don't go to Hell. Homosexuality isn't a sin. Homosexual acts are, however. The Bible doesn't condemn same-sex love rather it condemns same-sex lust.




Time to end this thread as far as the Biblical discussion goes;

For Christians who say homosexuals are impure and going to Hell I give you this;
There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

For those who say Homosexuality isn't a sin in the Bible I give you this;
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

And this....

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

You can't debate what the Bible says about homosexuality. It is clear cut. The only thing left to debate in this thread are the laws of man and if it should be legalized on Earth. Divine Law had no place in this thread to begin with.

[Jasperf]

If I was informed right those were laws in the old testaments not things god said.

Timothy 3:16-17 'all scripture is inspired by God.'

Oh and btw god didn't write any of the bible, exept for the Ten Commandments, which he actually didn't write, Moses did...







Are you being sarcastic or are you just that dense? You clearily failed to read my post completely. Reread it for your own sake then refer to the following passage from Romans;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romans 3:22-26
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Well then if you wanna act like any sin can just be forgiven, then people who have homosexual sex just shouldn't worry about it.


And if you read my post clearly you would see where I said that they are, in fact, incorrect. Homosexuals don't go to Hell. Homosexuality isn't a sin. Homosexual acts are, however. The Bible doesn't condemn same-sex love rather it condemns same-sex lust.

I never said that you said homosexuals went to hell, I said that earlier in the thread someone eles had, that is why I put that post into a context where breaking any of the Leviticus laws equal you going to hell. As I said earlier, I know that there are different punishments

[StoppingTime]

Well in Leviticus it says quite a lot of things actually (: so if you think that homosexuality is wrong because Leviticus says so, and therefore homosexuals will go to hell, I've got bad news for you mate.
. Ever wanted something like more money? Your going to hell
. Ever eaten chicken? Going to hell
. Ever worn a wool mix sweater? Going to hell
. Ever ripped a shirt, or pair of jeans? Going to hell
. Ever eaten a piece of steak with some nice fatty juices? Guess what, under your beliefs this means your going to Hell!
Perhaps learn a bit more about what your fighting for before you start fighting.

Okay please. If you knew anything about the New Testament I'm guessing you wouldn't have posted this. These laws are written in Leviticus, which is part of the Old Testament. Most Christians don't bother to follow most of the laws in the Old Testament (especially these, though you didn't even quote them right) so there's no reason for this list.

Leviticus is part of the Old Testament which is the Bible of the Jews. The Orthodox Jews do follow the laws you were alluding to (seeing as you didn't state them correctly), but of course they follow them how they interpret them, not how you falsely translated them.
Also, there's not even a "hell" in Judaism as you're thinking, so this entire post is flawed in argument.

[Jasperf]

Okay please. If you knew anything about the New Testament I'm guessing you wouldn't have posted this. These laws are written in Leviticus, which is part of the Old Testament. Most Christians don't bother to follow most of the laws in the Old Testament (especially these, though you didn't even quote them right) so there's no reason for this list.

Leviticus is part of the Old Testament which is the Bible of the Jews. The Orthodox Jews do follow the laws you were alluding to (seeing as you didn't state them correctly), but of course they follow them how they interpret them, not how you falsely translated them.
Also, there's not even a "hell" in Judaism as you're thinking, so this entire post is flawed in argument.

I wrote this post in such a way so that it established the reduculusness of all homosexuals going to hell(which was posted by someone earlier in the thread) because of the Leviticus laws (:
I've never responded to a mod in a question before Heha it's über intimidating hahaha :D

[Gigablue]

You can't debate what the Bible says about homosexuality. It is clear cut. The only thing left to debate in this thread are the laws of man and if it should be legalized on Earth. Divine Law had no place in this thread to begin with.

The bible's stance is clear, but irrelevant. Since the bible is completely unproven, it has no place is guiding laws. I would argue that since homosexuality does no demonstrable harm to society, there is no reason to discriminate against homosexuals. Unless someone can provide a secular argument against homosexuality, there is no reason for the government to deny same sex couples the right to marry.

[Origami]

The bible's stance is clear, but irrelevant. Since the bible is completely unproven, it has no place is guiding laws. I would argue that since homosexuality does no demonstrable harm to society, there is no reason to discriminate against homosexuals. Unless someone can provide a secular argument against homosexuality, there is no reason for the government to deny same sex couples the right to marry.

Read just a post of mine above. I'm not against same-sex marriage at all, brother. I have never agreed with political parties forcing Biblical laws on others.

[Capto]

The bible's stance is clear, but irrelevant. Since the bible is completely unproven, it has no place is guiding laws. I would argue that since homosexuality does no demonstrable harm to society, there is no reason to discriminate against homosexuals. Unless someone can provide a secular argument against homosexuality, there is no reason for the government to deny same sex couples the right to marry.

Which government.

[Gigablue]

Which government.

Every government in every country should allow same sex marriage.

[Origami]

I wrote this post in such a way so that it established the reduculusness of all homosexuals going to hell(which was posted by someone earlier in the thread) because of the Leviticus laws (:

So you deliberately loaded your statement with incorrect information to try and help your case?

Credibility: Nill.

[Capto]

Every government in every country should allow same sex marriage.

OK. In your opinion. That's fine. Now get every government in every country to allow same-sex marriage.

Get back to me in about fifty years.

[Jasperf]

So you deliberately loaded your statement with incorrect information to try and help your case?

Credibility: Nill.

No I deliberately put quotes from the bible into the same context as the person that the post was for, did earlier.

[Gigablue]

OK. In your opinion. That's fine. Now get every government in every country to allow same-sex marriage.

Get back to me in about fifty years.

I never said it would be easy, but if there are human rights violations taking place, people need to speak out against them. I hope we can eventually reach a time where same sex marriage is legal everywhere, though I recognize that it's unlikely.

[Origami]

No I deliberately put quotes from the bible into the same context as the person that the post was for, did earlier.

And as he did, you did them incorrectly. The ends don't justify the means.

[Capto]

I never said it would be easy, but if there are human rights violations taking place, people need to speak out against them. I hope we can eventually reach a time where same sex marriage is legal everywhere, though I recognize that it's unlikely.

People don't need to do anything. I'm pro same-sex marriage myself, but I know that it's literally impossible to legalize same-sex marriage in every sovereign nation for reason's I'm to lazy to go into right now.

[Jasperf]

And as he did, you did them incorrectly. The ends don't justify the means.

Yes I know! That's why I did it, to show how ridiculous his claim was, and to show that he was quoting something untruthfully,as he said that in Leviticus it says that all homosexuals will go to hell. When it doesn't say that at all :p

[Walter Powers]

OK. In your opinion. That's fine. Now get every government in every country to allow same-sex marriage.

Get back to me in about fifty years.

In some counties they're still beheading people for kissing someone of the same sex. I think he'd need more like 500!

[BrandonA]

Spoiler*God isn't real* Spoiler

Why should a man in the sky have anything to do with my rights, why can't I have the same rights as you?

Hey I'm just putting my input in what I BELIEVE in. Most likely same sex marriage will be legal as it almost is in the UK so there are your rights. Have a nice day!

-How can you prove God actually said this?
-Why does this give you the power to restrict my human rights?
-What if you're actually just wilfully bigoted?

Case reopened.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

It gives me NO power to restrict your human rights for I am a living being as well. I was giving an input in what I believe in :p

Once again I closed the case


Oh and sorry for double posting :/ I had to get it off my chest mods.

[saea97]

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.



Reopening the case by referring back to: How can you prove God said this/that this is in any way true? I questioned the historical providence of (and lack of evidence for the truth of) the Bible, and you responded with a Bible quote? "The Bible is true because the Bible says so" is a circular argument, which isn't going to get you anywhere.

[BrandonA]

Why is the Bible true? Sources:

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/the_study_of_god/how_do_we_know_the_bible_is_true.aspx

http://www.essentialbibleblog.com/2013/03/top-10-reasons-bible-is-true.html?m=1

[saea97]

Some gems I've picked out from your links:

Evidence for the Bible can take many forms. There is, for instance, physical evidence. We have copies of the manuscripts and throughout history these copies show that the Bible has been transmitted accurately.

I don't particularly believe this (there've always been controversies over the providence of the Bible), but even if one allows that the statement is true, it doesn't follow that the Bible is true, merely that it's been transmitted accurately.


If it can be shown that the four Gospels – Matthew, Mark, Luke and John – present an accurate record of the life and ministry of Jesus, then Jesus Himself becomes an argument in support of the truth of the Bible.

Most atheists would agree that a person called Jesus probably existed, so that's not going to get a Christian anywhere. There is no evidence that his "ministry" was anything more than one of many normal people who've always insisted a divine connection. No evidence of his miracles, no evidence of his resurrection. His mere existence is nothing at all with regards to an argument in support of the truth of the Bible.

What does Jesus say about God's Word? He says, "the Scripture cannot be broken" (John 10:35, NIV), thus testifying to the authority of the Bible. In Matthew 5:17, Jesus said, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them," meaning that Jesus believed and trusted in the Old Testament "Law" and "Prophets." Jesus also said, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God'" (Matthew 4:4).

Well gee, look at that. Now that the Bible's been corroborated with Bible quotes, I've completely changed my mind! :yawn:


The cornerstone of Christian belief is the resurrection of Christ. Even Paul the Apostle admitted that if the resurrection did not happen, Christian faith "is futile; you are still in your sins" (1 Corinthians 15:17). In this sense, making a case for the truth of the resurrection also makes a case for the truth claims of Jesus and, in turn, the reliability and truth of the Bible.

I've not cherry-picked the link here: there is absolutely no evidence offered for the resurrection in the whole page (to be fair, that'd be a difficult thing to do, as there is none). So I don't know what this paragraph is trying to say.

There are way more copies of the biblical manuscripts, with remarkable consistency between them, than there are for any of the classics like Plato, Aristotle and Socrates.

Again, even if this were true, it would attest only to reliability and not to truth.

A majority of the greatest leaders and thinkers in history have affirmed the truth and impact of the Bible.

The Bible has had a greater influence on the laws, art, ethics, music and literature of world civilization than any other book in history.

From St. Augustine to Martin Luther to Joni Eareckson Tada to countless everyday men, women and children, the words of the Bible have transformed lives unmistakably and forever.

Simple answer to these three: So? All the statements are true but none of them provide any support for the Bible being true. Evidence is the key.

[Jess]

Why is the Bible true? Sources:

http://www.focusonthefamily.com/faith/the_study_of_god/how_do_we_know_the_bible_is_true.aspx

http://www.essentialbibleblog.com/2013/03/top-10-reasons-bible-is-true.html?m=1
The whole Bible isn't true. For example, Noah's Ark. That most definitely did not happen; it's utterly impossible. And I don't believe in Jesus's "miracles". Nor can people rise from the dead (that'll make them zombies..)

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Spoiler*God isn't real* Spoiler

Why should a man in the sky have anything to do with my rights, why can't I have the same rights as you?

*brohoof*

Yes, God is just a man-made entity because back when he was made (about 2-3 THOUSAND years ago) that was the xplanation of everything

[BrandonA]

The whole Bible isn't true. For example, Noah's Ark. That most definitely did not happen; it's utterly impossible. And I don't believe in Jesus's "miracles". Nor can people rise from the dead (that'll make them zombies..)

Just because You don't believe these events happened does Not mean it isn't true. People from the time witnessed Christs miracles and as a result wrote it down.

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4223639/k.567/Ancient_Evidence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm

[saea97]

People from the time witnessed Christs miracles and as a result wrote it down.


And obviously, that's completely foolproof.

Also, how about some source websites that aren't totally biased by a priori assumptions?

[Origami]

As said before, how about we ignore the whole God is real/fake argument and focus on the topic of homosexuality being moral or immoral, yeah?

[saea97]

As said before, how about we ignore the whole God is real/fake argument and focus on the topic of homosexuality being moral or immoral, yeah?

Given that arguments for homosexuality's immorality tend to come from people on the grounds of their religion (please note I'm saying "most, but by no means all", here), surely the power of the entire argument rests on the truth of the religion?

[Emerald Dream]

Given that arguments for homosexuality's immorality tend to come from people on the grounds of their religion (please note I'm saying "most, but by no means all", here), surely the power of the entire argument rests on the truth of the religion?

The original point of this thread was about rights, not beliefs. There have been plenty of other threads that discuss the religious, or belief, aspect of homosexuality.

Let's try to stay on topic, please.

[Origami]

Given that arguments for homosexuality's immorality tend to come from people on the grounds of their religion (please note I'm saying "most, but by no means all", here), surely the power of the entire argument rests on the truth of the religion?

Not entirely. Notice my argument on if it was wrong or right was based on religion yet I very plainly said that Divine Law had no place in this thread. The Bible tells use not to judge others for only God has the power to do so. So again, this thread should be more of a social / legal debate instead of a religious one.

[Korashk]

Just because You don't believe these events happened does Not mean it isn't true.
He isn't saying that he doesn't believe the events happened. He's saying that a bunch of the events in the Bible couldn't have happened, like the Noah's Ark story. That story literally could not have happened the way the Bible says it did. It defies the laws of physics.

[Jess]

He isn't saying that he doesn't believe the events happened. He's saying that a bunch of the events in the Bible couldn't have happened, like the Noah's Ark story. That story literally could not have happened the way the Bible says it did. It defies the laws of physics.

She, not he :P (Because I'm a she lol :P)

Yeah that's what I mean. Noah's Ark is just...impossible. Seriously, a pair of every single animal kind on the ark?

But yeah...back on topic...

[Camazotz]

Gays should not be discriminated against legally or socially, and should have the same rights heterosexuals have. The fact that this is still an argument decades after the American Civil Rights movement is just pathetic.

[Jasperf]

And obviously, that's completely foolproof.

Also, how about some source websites that aren't totally biased by a priori assumptions?

Just because You don't believe these events happened does Not mean it isn't true. People from the time witnessed Christs miracles and as a result wrote it down.

http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4223639/k.567/Ancient_Evidence_for_Jesus_from_NonChristian_Sources.htm

Well actuall no, the gospels were written over a hundred years after Jesus. Storries change alot overtime, exaduration, ever heard of the game Chinese whispers, same thing.

[Harry Smith]

It doesn't really matter to me whether people think being gay is natural or not, it doesn't change my life if they want to think that. However I do think that you cannot deny someone their basic rights on the basis of homosexuality. It doesn't matter if your holy book tells you that it's wrong, I deserve the same rights as you do

[Jasperf]

It doesn't really matter to me whether people think being gay is natural or not, it doesn't change my life if they want to think that. However I do think that you cannot deny someone their basic rights on the basis of homosexuality. It doesn't matter if your holy book tells you that it's wrong, I deserve the same rights as you do

I agree,
I don't understand how someone could possibly believe that bring gay is unnatural, when it is a natural feeling that you have, between two natural things, and there are plenty of other 'naturual' animals doing the same thing.

I also don't think that anyone can say that homosexuality is wrong because of the bible, and I'm willing to debate with anyone who thinks they could tell me otherwise!

Your right homosexuals should have the same rights, infact it says in the declaration of human rights that any man or woman can marry who ever they want(note, it doesn't say any man can Marry only any woman, or vice versa)

I'm well open for a debate with someone who feels the opposite, or just wants to practice there debating skills, from the other point of view

[TheDeepestDepths]

I always get so confused by the term "unnatural" in these debates, because surely, if it exists then it's natural? If it was unnatural then it wouldn't happen, it wouldn't exist.

A person's sole purpose in life is not to reproduce. It couldn't be or we wouldn't have gay people, or infertile people. Nature wouldn't allow for people or aspects of a species that doesn't add to the balance.

That sounded very hippy-ish, but it wasn't supposed to, it's just the way I interpret nature or the "ways of the world" so to speak.

[steve102998]

i think it is fine 2 be that way just plz dont wear tight pants it annoys me so much and dont try to invole me we can be friends but not anything more

[britishboy]

i think it is fine 2 be that way just plz dont wear tight pants it annoys me so much and dont try to invole me we can be friends but not anything more

wtf? how about you let gay people wear whatever they want, they dont dictate what you can wear! and how does it annoy you?!

[foxtrot.12]

a sin but a very tough and interesting one

She, not he :P (Because I'm a she lol :P)

Yeah that's what I mean. Noah's Ark is just...impossible. Seriously, a pair of every single animal kind on the ark?

But yeah...back on topic...
haha but all of the universe happening to fall perfectly into place can happen right...bing bang...i find that a lot harder to believe and the same things that scientists claim can be explained scientifically through events in the bible..

merged ~max

[DerBear]

I have no problem with it. Each to his or her own...