Homosexuality, is it right or no ?

[Harry Smith]

haha but all of the universe happening to fall perfectly into place can happen right...bing bang...i find that a lot harder to believe and the same things that scientists claim can be explained scientifically through events in the bible..

That's doesn't justify believing in a man that you've never seen who told you thousands of years ago to discriminate against homosexuals because a book written by a group of men said so.

I don't give a shit about your God, I give a shit about reality. I care about my rights, and you have no right to deny me my rights based on my sexuality. How would you feel if you were denied the right to marry because you believed in God?

I deserve the same rights, end of.

[steve102998]

im not trying 2 dictate what they wear its just is annoying to see a guy in tight pants 2 me at least

[teen.jpg]

im not trying 2 dictate what they wear its just is annoying to see a guy in tight pants 2 me at least

What does skinny jeans have anything to do with being gay?

[Jasperf]

That's doesn't justify believing in a man that you've never seen who told you thousands of years ago to discriminate against homosexuals because a book written by a group of men said so.

I don't give a shit about your God, I give a shit about reality. I care about my rights, and you have no right to deny me my rights based on my sexuality. How would you feel if you were denied the right to marry because you believed in God?

I deserve the same rights, end of.

If only we could like posts :(
This is amazing

[Jess]

a sin but a very tough and interesting one


haha but all of the universe happening to fall perfectly into place can happen right...bing bang...i find that a lot harder to believe and the same things that scientists claim can be explained scientifically through events in the bible..

merged ~max

Like what? I doubt it. The Bible's full of fairytales. Talking snakes, people rising from the dead...seriously

That's doesn't justify believing in a man that you've never seen who told you thousands of years ago to discriminate against homosexuals because a book written by a group of men said so.

I don't give a shit about your God, I give a shit about reality. I care about my rights, and you have no right to deny me my rights based on my sexuality. How would you feel if you were denied the right to marry because you believed in God?

I deserve the same rights, end of.

Exactly this.

[Origami]

That's doesn't justify believing in a man that you've never seen who told you thousands of years ago to discriminate against homosexuals because a book written by a group of men said so.

False. The Bible never teaches anyone to discriminate against homosexuals. Yes, it says it's wrong but the Bible teaches you to "love thy neighbor."

I don't give a shit about your God, I give a shit about reality. I care about my rights,

You expect a group to respect your rights when you take every chance you get to say their belief isn't real? You're as bad as they are, brother.

and you have no right to deny me my rights based on my sexuality. How would you feel if you were denied the right to marry because you believed in God?

I deserve the same rights, end of.

Maybe the only truth in your post.

[Jasperf]

False. The Bible never teaches anyone to discriminate against homosexuals. Yes, it says it's wrong but the Bible teaches you to "love thy neighbor."

Though it does say that the punishment for homosexual sexual relations is death, and then doesn't it say something about not killing?
The bible is a book of Hypocrisy.

[Origami]

Though it does say that the punishment for homosexual sexual relations is death, and then doesn't it say something about not killing?
The bible is a book of Hypocrisy.

The punishment of sin is death. For all have sinned therefore we all die.

It does not say to kill homosexuals.

[Jasperf]

The punishment of sin is death. For all have sinned therefore we all die.

It does not say to kill homosexuals.

Um, yes it does, check out the Leviticus laws and punishments.

[Origami]

Um, yes it does, check out the Leviticus laws and punishments.

Only two punishments in Leviticus specify the punishment [20:2 and 20:27]. The rest, including homosexuality are unspecified. Often they go to say "their blood shall be upon them." This can be seen as them killing themselves in the spirit of Christ more than in the life of the flesh.

[Jasperf]

Only two punishments in Leviticus specify the punishment [20:2 and 20:27]. The rest, including homosexuality are unspecified. Often they go to say "their blood shall be upon them." This can be seen as them killing themselves in the spirit of Christ more than in the life of the flesh.

Well in every bible I have read

Having sex with a man “as one does with a woman” (18:22) [In 20:13, both are to be put to death]

[Origami]

Well in every bible I have read

Having sex with a man “as one does with a woman” (18:22) [In 20:13, both are to be put to death]

How are they put to death though, finish the verse:

Leviticus 20:13
King James Version (KJV)
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

[saea97]

How are they put to death though, finish the verse:

Leviticus 20:13
King James Version (KJV)
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

I have to admit, I don't understand the distinction that you're giving such heavy weight to. This still seems utterly barbaric to me.

[Origami]

I have to admit, I don't understand the distinction that you're giving such heavy weight to. This still seems utterly barbaric to me.

Their blood shall be upon. Their blood isn't on others. Others don't kill them.

So, as such, "they shall surely be put to death" ...[in Christ.]


Meaning they aren't killed here by man, rather they are dead in spirit and Christ knows them not.

[Jasperf]

How are they put to death though, finish the verse:

Saying that they will be put to death. then saying they will kill themselves, by choice. That totally contradicts itself, noone would kill themselfs by choice, from doing something they chose to do in the first place.

[Origami]

Saying that they will be put to death. then saying they will kill themselves, by choice. That totally contradicts itself, noone would kill themselfs by choice, from doing something they chose to do in the first place.

Let me simplify it.

You really aren't seeing the point. In some religions their are two deaths. Two. Two.

A physical death where the flesh expires. The natural death we all know and experience.
And the spiritual death, where you forsake God or God forsakes you.

It's not saying they're cutting their own heads off.
It is not saying to physically kill homosexuals.

(And for any Christian, it is not saying to deny them marriage.)

[Jasperf]

Let me simplify it.

You really aren't seeing the point. In some religions their are two deaths. Two. Two.

A physical death where the flesh expires. The natural death we all know and experience.
And the spiritual death, where you forsake God or God forsakes you.

It's not saying they're cutting their own heads off.
It is not saying to physically kill homosexuals.

(And for any Christian, it is not saying to deny them marriage.)

Again with the hypocrisy.
For god would never forsake someone...

[saea97]

Their blood shall be upon. Their blood isn't on others. Others don't kill them.

So, as such, "they shall surely be put to death" ...[in Christ.]


Meaning they aren't killed here by man, rather they are dead in spirit and Christ knows them not.

I get that part, but surely this passage is the Bible strongly condemning homosexuality, and as such a Christian who actually believes everything they read would have a strong case to argue against homosexuality?

[Origami]

Again with the hypocrisy.
For god would never forsake someone...

False. Again.

John 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I get that part, but surely this passage is the Bible strongly condemning homosexuality, and as such a Christian who actually believes everything they read would have a strong case to argue against homosexuality?

Refer to my posts earlier in this thread. The reason that I, as a Christian, do no condemn homosexuality is because the Bible condemns same-sex intercourse. Not love. Marriage is built on love and therefore universal.

[saea97]

False. Again.





Refer to my posts earlier in this thread. The reason that I, as a Christian, do no condemn homosexuality is because the Bible condemns same-sex intercourse. Not love. Marriage is built on love and therefore universal.

I appreciate that, and I wish more Christians espoused that last part, but then your approval of homosexuals is conditional on them being celibate forever? That seems a little unfair to me. Or would homosexual intercourse be permissible, but only in the marriage bed?

[Origami]

I appreciate that, and I wish more Christians espoused that last part, but then your approval of homosexuals is conditional on them being celibate forever? That seems a little unfair to me. Or would homosexual intercourse be permissible, but only in the marriage bed?

In Christian faith it is "an abomination."

But most Christian forget this...


There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

The Bible says we aren't to judge others as only God is supposed to. So I am unbiased as to who fucks who, how, and when.

[ImCoolBeans]

What makes you so entitled to having a partner of the opposite sex? Why is this such a "right" but having a partner of the same sex is not? I am not a religious man, I don't live in an oppressive county (or so they say...) and nobody is being hurt by my actions; so why is it so terrible that I like the D?

[Jasperf]

im not trying 2 dictate what they wear its just is annoying to see a guy in tight pants 2 me at least

Well, if the Bible is 100% true, homosexuality is a sin. Your choice to believe the Bible doesn't amount to any evidence at all as to its truth, so there's no reason to believe that homosexuality is a sin. I get that you believe it, but there's no logical reason to.




I don't see how this matters either way, although I do wonder about how depressing it must be for them that their own religion could thoroughly condemn their unchangeable nature which they did not choose.

Find me a verse that says being a homosexual is a sin.

[Harry Smith]

False. The Bible never teaches anyone to discriminate against homosexuals. Yes, it says it's wrong but the Bible teaches you to "love thy neighbor."



You expect a group to respect your rights when you take every chance you get to say their belief isn't real? You're as bad as they are, brother.



Maybe the only truth in your post.

That's the problem with the Bible, it can be interpreted in so many different ways. You had the Dutch reform church using it to justify apartheid. The tension is created by groups actively protesting against my right to marry based on a deity who may or may not exist.

[Origami]

That's the problem with the Bible, it can be interpreted in so many different ways. You had the Dutch reform church using it to justify apartheid. The tension is created by groups actively protesting against my right to marry based on a deity who may or may not exist.

That's the folly of man. Only man would take a book that is littered with promises of love and messes of compassion and use it as a weapon of hatred.

[Harry Smith]

That's the folly of man. Only man would take a book that is littered with promises of love and messes of compassion and use it as a weapon of hatred.

I agree that the core of Christianity is good natured, it teaches skills and qualities that we should all hope to have.

But the book is written by man isn't it?

[Origami]

I agree that the core of Christianity is good natured, it teaches skills and qualities that we should all hope to have.

But the book is written by man isn't it?

Yes, which is why it's more than questionable at times. Being written by men who were influenced by God is a touchy subject, even for a lot of Christians.

[Harry Smith]

Yes, which is why it's more than questionable at times. Being written by men who were influenced by God is a touchy subject, even for a lot of Christians.

I mean from a far back view I see it as a way of men say 2000 years ago trying to impose their will on fellow man. Everything is about power.

They create this book and say if you follow the rules you'll go to heaven, good old fear of the unknown.If you do x then you won't live forever. This stopped people from doing x

I just see the bible as a tool to control people

[Miserabilia]

That's the problem with the Bible, it can be interpreted in so many different ways. You had the Dutch reform church using it to justify apartheid. The tension is created by groups actively protesting against my right to marry based on a deity who may or may not exist.

more history of my country to be proud of... /:

anyway, I aggree,
and often the bible is just used as an excuse for discrimination, and not reason.
Like, I don't blame the bible, just the people.

For example, foreign people were for example in middle ages very strange, not like the people here, very different for the europeans.
So they use what they trust in the most (the bible) as an excuse for discrimination. Same for homosexuality, most of the people discriminating homosexuals are just... afraid of it in some way, because its different then them. So they use their trusted bible as excuse to discriminate, if you know what I mean

[Harry Smith]

more history of my country to be proud of... /:

anyway, I aggree,
and often the bible is just used as an excuse for discrimination, and not reason.
Like, I don't blame the bible, just the people.

For example, foreign people were for example in middle ages very strange, not like the people here, very different for the europeans.
So they use what they trust in the most (the bible) as an excuse for discrimination. Same for homosexuality, most of the people discriminating homosexuals are just... afraid of it in some way, because its different then them. So they use their trusted bible as excuse to discriminate, if you know what I mean

Exactly, the bible should be kept of the courts and the legal system. I'm entitled to my rights no matter what an old book says about me. As I said above it's man tool to oppressive his fellow man

[Origami]

I mean from a far back view I see it as a way of men say 2000 years ago trying to impose their will on fellow man. Everything is about power.

They create this book and say if you follow the rules you'll go to heaven, good old fear of the unknown.If you do x then you won't live forever. This stopped people from doing x

I just see the bible as a tool to control people

Yes, there is no denying that if God doesn't exist that this view is the most likely origin of the Bible. It's not a ridiculous idea to think that any religious scripture could have originated in this way. With the exception of Buddhism, as I don't think they believe in an afterlife or punishment otherwise. [Matty would have to confirm this].

But then again, today the Bible's purpose and usage should fall on the individual. I try my best to remind myself daily of James 4:11-12 which reads:
11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

Personally, I use the Old Testament (such as the oh so common laws of Leviticus) to govern myself. Not the actions of others. Whereas I use the New Testament to remind myself how to treat and act towards others.

I mean, if God is real then we Christians have no place at all to decide who can and can not be wed as the above verse encourages us not to judge others. Unfortunately, most individuals like to overlook verses that teach us not to judge and others that teach us to love and instead like to run around screaming, "God hates gays" (which is also not true).

Exactly, the bible should be kept of the courts and the legal system. I'm entitled to my rights no matter what an old book says about me.

This. Pretty much. The only time when it shouldn't is when deciding laws that directly effect Christians... which a gay marriage bill does not do. So really, who cares what we think on the matter?

[Sugaree]

With the exception of Buddhism, as I don't think they believe in an afterlife or punishment otherwise. [Matty would have to confirm this].

Buddhists believe in reincarnation, where the actions of your life dictate what your next life will be. It's an afterlife, but not in the classical sense of a Heaven and Hell scenario. You're close though.

[Harry Smith]

Yes, there is no denying that if God doesn't exist that this view is the most likely origin of the Bible. It's not a ridiculous idea to think that any religious scripture could have originated in this way. With the exception of Buddhism, as I don't think they believe in an afterlife or punishment otherwise. [Matty would have to confirm this].

But then again, today the Bible's purpose and usage should fall on the individual. I try my best to remind myself daily of James 4:11-12 which reads:


Personally, I use the Old Testament (such as the oh so common laws of Leviticus) to govern myself. Not the actions of others. Whereas I use the New Testament to remind myself how to treat and act towards others.

I mean, if God is real then we Christians have no place at all to decide who can and can not be wed as the above verse encourages us not to judge others. Unfortunately, most individuals like to overlook verses that teach us not to judge and others that teach us to love and instead like to run around screaming, "God hates gays" (which is also not true).



This. Pretty much. The only time when it shouldn't is when deciding laws that directly effect Christians... which a gay marriage bill does not do. So really, who cares what we think on the matter?

I can't argue with that one bit

[Jasperf]

[QUOTE=Origami;2377847 screaming, "God hates gays" (which is also not true).?[/QUOTE]

Yes! God doesn't hate gays, acording to the bible there are only 6 things that god hates, and what the people who are majorly against homosexuality are doing is one of them!

[Achillea]

Yeah, I believe that if Jesus Christ were alive today he would be sticking up for gay people. To be honest, I think people are being ridiculous by interpreting the Bible literally. Not to mention that if you were a GOOD CHRISTIAN you probably should know that Christians don't really think much of the Old Testament (No offence to Jews) INCLUDING The Book of Leviticus which most so called "CHRISTIANS" use as the backbone to their argument that GAY=SIN. Like seriously, Jesus Christ would NEVER EVER treat Gay people, or anyone for that matter ,with the same disrespect that has been shown by "Christians". He made a BIG POINT of embracing people who were looked down on (E.g Lepers) and he tells us that in the Beatitudes these are the people of God. If you shun and hurt gay people, can you honestly say that this is what Jesus Christ wants? Pain, Sorrow, Hate, Shame is not what Jesus Christ died for. He died for LOVE, for everyone (And yes, that means gays.) If a priest in my church EVER said something in hatred of the gays, I would walk right out, in front of everyone. I would expect TRUE believers to follow me, I know that the puppets and non-believers would stay in their seats, for fear that they would be shunned. "Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Think you are a Christian? Show through your actions rather than your words. I am a straight Catholic but I believe that EVERYONE has a right to LOVE. Even if you are not Christian, it is in the UDoHR so I guess you will have to deal. :) By the way I'm not a nun so if anything here is wrong tell me:)

[Origami]

Yeah, I believe that if Jesus Christ were alive today he would be sticking up for gay people. To be honest, I think people are being ridiculous by interpreting the Bible literally. Not to mention that if you were a GOOD CHRISTIAN you probably should know that Christians don't really think much of the Old Testament (No offence to Jews) INCLUDING The Book of Leviticus which most so called "CHRISTIANS" use as the backbone to their argument that GAY=SIN. Like seriously, Jesus Christ would NEVER EVER treat Gay people, or anyone for that matter ,with the same disrespect that has been shown by "Christians". He made a BIG POINT of embracing people who were looked down on (E.g Lepers) and he tells us that in the Beatitudes these are the people of God. If you shun and hurt gay people, can you honestly say that this is what Jesus Christ wants? Pain, Sorrow, Hate, Shame is not what Jesus Christ died for. He died for LOVE, for everyone (And yes, that means gays.) If a priest in my church EVER said something in hatred of the gays, I would walk right out, in front of everyone. I would expect TRUE believers to follow me, I know that the puppets and non-believers would stay in their seats, for fear that they would be shunned. "Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." Think you are a Christian? Show through your actions rather than your words. I am a straight Catholic but I believe that EVERYONE has a right to LOVE. Even if you are not Christian, it is in the UDoHR so I guess you will have to deal. :) By the way I'm not a nun so if anything here is wrong tell me:)

Nope, you hit the nail on the head; give or take individual beliefs.

[Nellerin]

Buddhists believe in reincarnation, where the actions of your life dictate what your next life will be. It's an afterlife, but not in the classical sense of a Heaven and Hell scenario. You're close though.

There is heaven and hell in Buddhism, ( there are six levels of Rebirth ranging from hell realms to ghosts to humans and then to gods)

And your next life is not tied to your current one, it is tied to the accumulation of your thousands of other lives that you have had.

I'm a Spiritual guy so I figured I'd just throw this out there for a better understanding.

[NUGGETMAN1]

I have nothing against homosexuals, as my closest friend is. I personally could not see myself with another man, but who knows? Seasons change, and with it, people. Like I said two of my closest friends are lesbians(I'm pretty sure another guy is, but he denies it whenever people say it to his face, which I would never do). I can't understand why peoplw hate gays, but I believe they're normal people who should have all the same rights as heterosexual couples.

[Miserabilia]

There is heaven and hell in Buddhism, ( there are six levels of Rebirth ranging from hell realms to ghosts to humans and then to gods)

And your next life is not tied to your current one, it is tied to the accumulation of your thousands of other lives that you have had.

I'm a Spiritual guy so I figured I'd just throw this out there for a better understanding.

Depends what type of buddhism, and how far the buddhists go in what they beleive.
Their are christians that dont beleive in hell/heaven too, just in god

[Nellerin]

Depends what type of buddhism, and how far the buddhists go in what they beleive.
Their are christians that dont beleive in hell/heaven too, just in god

True, as far as the main types of Buddhism (Tibetan primarily) that is what they believe, but there are always outlying groups that feel differently.

However, Buddhist heaven and hell are not real places, they are states of consciousness.

[Miserabilia]

True, as far as the main types of Buddhism (Tibetan primarily) that is what they believe, but there are always outlying groups that feel differently.

However, Buddhist heaven and hell are not real places, they are states of consciousness.

exactly! Nice to see someone that understands :)

[dontfiguremeout]

I accept homosexual people, but I don't really support it. Like honestly some of my friends are gay and I accept them. I may not agree on their view, but I accept them. I don't really judge anyone really. I'm not perfect, so why should I judge?!

[Micci]

Being a lesbian, my views are skewed, but whatever.

I think the argument on homosexuality is generally the same as the interracial love argument. Seeing as how, naturally you are more likely to perceive a member of your race more attractive than a member of a different race (a study was done with babies that showed that after 9 months, when given a picture of two attractive people, one of your own race and one of another race, then children would look at the one of their race and ignore the other picture).

So, it might not be natural, but it still happens.

Something I like think, though, is that homosexuals were created to counterbalance the whole overpopulation issue. But, that's probably just me. :)

[Derryck]

I think debate on sexuality is unnecessary and that u should ignore it.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

I know I HAVE posted this point before but I'll reiterate it.
I see no possible way homosexuality could be wrong. I admit there is an extremely slight influence from my own sexuality, but still here's my opinion, from facts like these:

1. Homosexuality in animals- I have observed homosexuality...
once by cows
and
thrice by pigs
firsthand.

2. Homosexuality could be easily incorporated into MLK's "I have a Dream speech"

3. Homosexuality has actually existed for a long time, but only more recently it's been condemned. Nero (a Roman Emperor) actually had married a man (good point however that he was castrated by his own orders.) Also James Buchanan, the 15th US president, was homosexual.

[HowlingSnail]

Who/what other people find attractive is none of my, or anyone else's business.

[thatcountrykid]

Personally i dont think so. I think theres a reason man and woman fit together like a puzzle piece.

[Walter Powers]

Personally? It disgusts me, I'll be honest. But I have no right to stop others from doing it; that's their business.