Should the world intervene in Syria?

[Atonement]

I haven't seen a post like this, so if there is one already, please merge me. :D

What are your thoughts?

Here are some prompts, but by no means is this a survey:

Who should intervene? Why? How should that intervention be carried out? What forms of intervention would you suggest? Should your government intervene? If we shouldn't intervene now, at what point should we? Feel free to attach some articles. I like more reading.

Here are some articles I've found laying out the problems of the situation:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/26/syria_chemical_weapons_strategy_obama

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/should-the-us-intervene-in-syria-with-military-action

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Really, Yes and No.

Yes, because the rebels are fighting against a tyrannous government.

But, no, because that may cause a chain of alliances and war.

[Left Now]

No,that really seems like a kind of transgression but if there were any support for rebels,why should not there be any support for government?
_I think supporting rebels are not right and we should let their own people change their government if they want...But with sending guns and weapons to Syria for rebels nothing will get fixed and the country will lose its industrial very foundations...However I think it is a political advantage for the west...Because if the Syria's industrial foundations got destroyed they can easily seize that Country...But in my opinion there should not be any foreign support in Syria so other countries won't support the government in the other side neither.

[Atonement]

Really, Yes and No.

Yes, because the rebels are fighting against a tyrannous government.

But, no, because that may cause a chain of alliances and war.

So are you saying yes to support the rebels against the government? What about the chance of weapons falling into extremist hands?

And what alliances and war are you referencing?

No,that really seems like a kind of transgression but if there were any support for rebels,why should not there be any support for government?
_I think supporting rebels are not right and we should let their own people change their government if they want...But with sending guns and weapons to Syria for rebels nothing will get fixed and the country will lose its industrial very foundations...However I think it is a political advantage for the west...Because if the Syria's industrial foundations got destroyed they can easily seize that Country...But in my opinion there should not be any foreign support in Syria so other countries won't support the government in the other side neither.

Why shouldn't someone support the government? Probably because he is murdering his own citizens to maintain his minority government in a state that can often barely feed its own people.

Why support the rebels? Because they are trying to bring forth a democratic revolution against someone who has essentially become a dictator.

"Let the people change their government if they want." - Isn't that exactly what supporting the rebels is doing? The rebels are trying to change their government and country but lack the means to do so since they are rebel militias against a formal army and air force.

"Political advantage for the West" - The West is going to "seize" Syria? You mean like a colony? That can't happen in international law anymore and wouldn't be tolerated. The West doesn't want to control Syria. What is in Syria that the West really wants so bad to launch a war? Not much. The only political advantage is that Syria is an Iranian ally and would therefore limit Iran's access to the sea.

Iran provides the Assad regime with financial and military assistance, and aids in organizing the Alawite militia. In return, Tehran gets a significant forward operating base on the Mediterranean in which Iranian weapons can be modified, manufactured, and sent to their Hezbollah allies in Lebanon. But, equally important, the alliance with Syria strengthens Iran's claim as a leader in the resistance against Israel and a protector of the world's Shiites. Convinced that the West seeks their demise, Iran's ideologically driven leaders are unlikely to take Assad's downfall lightly and will likely become even more aggressive. Source (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/04/24/intervention_syria_russia_china_iran)

[Left Now]

Iran's supported Syria when European countries started to support rebels,and also if you really look for democracy why do not you go to Bahrain and Arabia,are they really democratic?
The people are dying like goats down here and Europe and US are still supporting the Al-Khalifa and Al-Soud...So do not tell me about democracy when you are not accepting it toward all nations....
After all there isn't any expect of democracy from you just when your advantages are noted...Which country support Islamic Revolution in Iran while the people were dying under the heavy attacks of Shah...And also Iran-Iraq war...So first go and fix yourself friend...
Also do you know over 67% of syrian rebels are foreign and from other Arabian countries?

[Twilly F. Sniper]

[QUOTE=Atonement;2247923]So are you saying yes to support the rebels against the government? What about the chance of weapons falling into extremist hands?

That is sort've true. (Should've put that one up)

And what alliances and war are you referencing?

If, for example, a country such as NK supported the government while we supported the rebels. It could cause more motive for those countries to go to war with the US and NATO.

[Southside]

We are already intervening in Syria, just not by airstrikes and missiles.. We've been pumping in weapons and money since the conflict started. CIA,US Military and other Western intelligance agencies have been inside Jordan training the FSA.

[britishboy]

well at the moment we are sending non lethal aid such as body armor medicine and armored cars. I think we should either send troops there and sort it out that way or send no aid at all. that's not really helping. I think we should send troops because so many people are dieing and now they think chemical weapons have been used.

[Sir Suomi]

No. I'm sick of America becoming the world's bigger brother. If people want to eradicate each other from the face of the earth, I'm fine with that, as long as we're not involved. America has lost too much blood fighting in foreign wars, and I'm not willing to go in and waste even more lives. I'm fine with sending medical aid, food, etc, to places like that are in need. But I will sure as hell not repeat another Vietnam, Somalia, Iraq, or Afghanistan.

[TheBigUnit]

I think we have to now, obama said there is a fine line on weapons used and the syrian gov broke it, they are finding sarin in blood, so I believe we must intervene, there's been too much blood shed for over 2 years and the fact that chemical weapons now being used we have to stop it, the major problem is that who exactly are we fighting for? The gov is bad and so are the rebels, we'll have to defeat both and set elections there and in my opinion without influencing any of it and stop israel from bitching of wanting a goodie bag too

[Atonement]

I'll take your statements one by one, if that's okay.

Iran's supported Syria when European countries started to support rebels,

Iran has had a strategic alliance with Syria for a while now. They've both shown military cooperation against "Israel and United States" threats. So, no. I don't believe Iran began to support Syria in response to European interference. They, in the past, were unrelated. They've only been related recently.

and also if you really look for democracy why do not you go to Bahrain and Arabia,are they really democratic?

We typically support democratic movements in an idealist way. Bahrain has a cry for democracy, but it hasn't fallen into a civil war. Therefore, why intervene when they are working on handling it themselves?

As for Saudi Arabia, who is commonly a stabilizing force in the region, they are far from democratic, I won't deny that. However, they are stable. We don't go around overthrowing regimes arbitrarily, especially when it is to our interest that they remain stable.

The people are dying like goats down here and Europe and US are still supporting the Al-Khalifa and Al-Soud...So do not tell me about democracy when you are not accepting it toward all nations.... After all there isn't any expect of democracy from you just when your advantages are noted...Which country support Islamic Revolution in Iran while the people were dying under the heavy attacks of Shah...And also Iran-Iraq war...So first go and fix yourself friend...

In the future of our discussion, please make sure to differentiate between me (Addison) and my government (the United States). I'd appreciate it. I don't always agree with what my government did, has done, does, or will do. Also, I should be clear that what I am saying isn't necessarily my opinion, but rather I'm stimulating conversation.

The United States is no democracy police. However as is the norms of international law, intervention in humanitarian crises and war crimes should be considered. I'd like to mention that I don't agree with the stances of the United States during the Shah's and Saddam Hussein's reigns.


Also do you know over 67% of syrian rebels are foreign and from other Arabian countries?

Do you want to quote a source for that? I find that hard to believe that 2/3 of the rebel forces are foreigners and I haven't heard that before.

[Left Now]

About difference between your government and you yourself,excuse me if there were anythings wrong...
But about the source:
Many of the Syrian rebels are from Al-Qaeda,Arabia,Tunis,Egypt,Libya and UAE:
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/tr/contents/articles/opinion/2013/03/tunisian-jihadists-syria.html
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/13a6316c-a1fa-11e2-8971-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2RgJbDgDk
http://www.assopace.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=489:foreign-fighters-join-syrian-rebels-by-ulrike-putz&catid=95:syria&Itemid=99
http://tribune.com.pk/story/346709/foreign-militants-fighting-in-syria-battlefields/
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2012/08/16/british-mercenaries-fighting-in-syria/
And about supports:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

[Atonement]

About difference between your government and you yourself,excuse me if there were anythings wrong...
But about the source:
Many of the Syrian rebels are from Al-Qaeda,Arabia,Tunis,Egypt,Libya and UAE:
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/tr/contents/articles/opinion/2013/03/tunisian-jihadists-syria.html
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/13a6316c-a1fa-11e2-8971-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2RgJbDgDk
http://www.assopace.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=489:foreign-fighters-join-syrian-rebels-by-ulrike-putz&catid=95:syria&Itemid=99
http://tribune.com.pk/story/346709/foreign-militants-fighting-in-syria-battlefields/
http://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2012/08/16/british-mercenaries-fighting-in-syria/
And about supports:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_involvement_in_the_Syrian_civil_war

I'm well aware that there are foreigners fighting with the rebels. From my superficial review of your links, I don't see where you got "67%" from. I agree there are many, but by no means would I call them a majority. Foreigners fighting with rebel movements is actually rather common.

[Left Now]

67 is coming from near half of the rebels are speaking with not a Syrian accent of Arabic languages.Also,if they are not 67 they are near 50 at least and it means that a half of the Syrian freedom Army is not actually Syrians,They are Salaffi Jihadists who are supported by UAE,Arabia,Qatar,Tunis,Kuwait,Turkey,Egypt and ...
Also they have killed a lot of christians during the civil war...And muslims do not do this just if they are Salaffi Jihadists...

[TheBigUnit]

And this is why we must invade syria, eventually

[Left Now]

Oh come one.You do not have rights to invade a country with your own purposes.After all you cannot face Syria because many countries are still supporting it.Even the rebelion succeeded you are not allowed to invade a country.

[Thunduhbuhlt]

No, for 2 reasons.
1. Vietnam
2. Korea

End of story.

[britishboy]

Oh come one.You do not have rights to invade a country with your own purposes.After all you cannot face Syria because many countries are still supporting it.Even the rebelion succeeded you are not allowed to invade a country.

you do have the right and responsibility when international law is broken. and by the looks of it they have used chemical weapons on its own people.

[Left Now]

There were missiles launching by both sides,rebels and government,so it is not a good reason for invading Syria,Also the chemical weapons are transported from Turkey to Syria.
Also intervening in a country's future has its own consequences.

[Harry Smith]

There were missiles launching by both sides,rebels and government,so it is not a good reason for invading Syria,Also the chemical weapons are transported from Turkey to Syria.
Also intervening in a country's future has its own consequences.

If Assad has committed war crimes then we need to go in

[Left Now]

Then we will too..

[Harry Smith]

Then we will too..

Great just what the west needs, another Islamic republic using religion as a guise for power. If Iran did get involved in Syria by supporting Assad then I reckon you would have b-52 flying over Tehran

[StoppingTime]

Then we will too..

Seeing as Iran has allied with the Syrian government, I'm not really too sure how that's going to happen.

And to the OP, I'm kind of split on it. Of course what Assad is doing should end, but then again, North Korea has virtually been doing the same thing for years, and we never stepped in.

[Left Now]

For Harry...About that aircraft...
Let us hear two words from mother in law...

[Harry Smith]

For Harry...About that aircraft...
Let us hear two words from mother in law...

Have you been drinking?

[Hunter_Steel]

Interfering in foreign affairs that does not concern that country is wrong IMO. I don't stick my nose in someone elses business to try and intervene because it doesn't concern me. Only if they ask for help THEN it should be given.

Also: A B-52 Stratofortress is easily taken down by a long range missile or a fighter squadron. I'd more reckon a B-2 Spirit Bomber would be sent as the B-52 I believe was phased out when more longer range, stealthier and faster bombers were built.

Also: B-52s were originally created to carry nukes. Whether they were missiles or bombs didn't matter. Thats what it's original purpose was for. If a B-52 is sent to bomb an area, you can think it'll do than just carpet bomb a city.

~Hunter

[Human]

I think a peaceful solution should be found as I don't think other countries should mess with other countries.
But something needs to be done as chemical weapons have been used.

[britishboy]

I think a peaceful solution should be found as I don't think other countries should mess with other countries.
But something needs to be done as chemical weapons have been used.

I know but we can't allow that stuff to go on something needs to be done hopefully peaceful but I think that's unlikely

[Southside]

well at the moment we are sending non lethal aid such as body armor medicine and armored cars. I think we should either send troops there and sort it out that way or send no aid at all. that's not really helping. I think we should send troops because so many people are dieing and now they think chemical weapons have been used.

Non-Lethal aid? HA! Dont believe everything BBC or Sky News tells you, we have been sending in Rifles,Anti-Tank Missiles, Ammo, and even training the FSA for almost a year now. Im not a conspiracy theorist, its video evidence of FSA fighters saying they received Western weapons training.

[Harry Smith]

Non-Lethal aid? HA! Dont believe everything BBC or Sky News tells you, we have been sending in Rifles,Anti-Tank Missiles, Ammo, and even training the FSA for almost a year now. Im not a conspiracy theorist, its video evidence of FSA fighters saying they received Western weapons training.

You say that despite the fact you openly support the 9/11 conspiracy theory...

[Southside]

You say that despite the fact you openly support the 9/11 conspiracy theory...

Im not going to go into 9/11..Im just saying, you cant deny that the Syrian Rebels havent been receiving training and weapons. It's been video evidence of FSA fighters saying they've received weapons & tactics training from US and other Western countries in Jordan. It's some Western companies and corperations who've been funding the Syrian Rebels, even a US Government backed website http://syriansupportgroup.org/ who funds them. Most of the Syrian Rebels are Islamic radicals anyway. I'll tell you what, if your so concerned donate to the Syrian Support Group if your that Anti-Assad.

[TheBigUnit]

Oh come one.You do not have rights to invade a country with your own purposes.After all you cannot face Syria because many countries are still supporting it.Even the rebelion succeeded you are not allowed to invade a country.
Let's just wait for another million to be displaced or dead, what countries really? Iran and egypt?

Then we will too..
Well then will NATO, to tell you the truth some countries not just us are looking for an excuse to stop your gov
Especially israel
For Harry...About that aircraft...
Let us hear two words from mother in law...
Your kidding right? If *#@+ hits the fan better hope you guys weren't as suprised as your neighbor

It'll be the f22s and f35s first against your soviet style MiGs then the b2s

Interfering in foreign affairs that does not concern that country is wrong IMO. I don't stick my nose in someone elses business to try and intervene because it doesn't concern me. Only if they ask for help THEN it should be given.

Also: A B-52 Stratofortress is easily taken down by a long range missile or a fighter squadron. I'd more reckon a B-2 Spirit Bomber would be sent as the B-52 I believe was phased out when more longer range, stealthier and faster bombers were built.

Also: B-52s were originally created to carry nukes. Whether they were missiles or bombs didn't matter. Thats what it's original purpose was for. If a B-52 is sent to bomb an area, you can think it'll do than just carpet bomb a city.

~Hunter

Yeah I believe b52s can only carpt bomb, but they carry a lot, the b52h is the newest model made 10 years or so back, b2s are badass

Im not going to go into 9/11..Im just saying, you cant deny that the Syrian Rebels havent been receiving training and weapons. It's been video evidence of FSA fighters saying they've received weapons & tactics training from US and other Western countries in Jordan. It's some Western companies and corperations who've been funding the Syrian Rebels, even a US Government backed website http://syriansupportgroup.org/ who funds them. Most of the Syrian Rebels are Islamic radicals anyway. For all of you who are so Anti-Assad, go ahead and donate to them since your so concerned...

He does have a point

[Southside]

Let's just wait for another million to be displaced or dead, what countries really? Iran and egypt?


Well then will NATO, to tell you the truth some countries not just us are looking for an excuse to stop your gov
Especially israel

Your kidding right? If *#@+ hits the fan better hope you guys weren't as suprised as your neighbor

It'll be the f22s and f35s first against your soviet style MiGs then the b2s



Yeah I believe b52s can only carpt bomb, but they carry a lot, the b52h is the newest model made 10 years or so back, b2s are badass



He does have a point


F-22 & F-35 are havent even seen combat yet, also, remember a year or so ago they grounded the F-22 because of problems, one even crashed in VA. B-2 is way more reliable, Iran has a pretty big air defense system and B-52 is huge target. B-2 on the other hand is stealth capiable...

[TheBigUnit]

F-22 & F-35 are havent even seen combat yet, also, remember a year or so ago they grounded the F-22 because of problems, one even crashed in VA. B-2 is way more reliable, Iran has a pretty big air defense system and B-52 is huge target. B-2 on the other hand is stealth capiable...

Well you'll need the planes to take out the air defense systems, both f35 and f22 are already stealth, and the USAF will use the b2 sparingly against high profile targets, maybe we ll use drone for the first wave

[Southside]

Well you'll need the planes to take out the air defense systems, both f35 and f22 are already stealth, f22 has been in combat I believe, and the USAF will use the b2 sparingly against high profile targets

F-22 has yet to seen any combat..I would want a plane that is combat tested such as the B-2, F-16 or F-15 which have seen atleast 20 years of operational history from the Gulf War to the Libya NATO operations. F-15 & F-16 put up a mean fight against MiG's, they shot down MiGs during the Yugoslav NATO intervention and the Gulf War. It's the anti-air missiles and stuff we'd have to worry about if we went to war with Iran. Those nuke sites are pretty deep underground, so we'd have a tough time getting to them

[Bethany]

I think there should be international intervention. I think about it this way...the Syrian opposition is fighting against an oppressive regime...If your country were in Syria's situation, and you were in the opposition...wouldn't you want outside assistance to overcome an oppressive regime and take back your country?

I support the US government giving training and weapons to the Syrian opposition. However, I don't agree with the idea of the US government's troops marching in and directly fighting...Too risky for relations after the conflict is over.

[TheBigUnit]

Should we support the rebels even? Apparently to many who live there say the rebels are no better than assad

[Hyper]

Yes the WORLD should intervene!

But the world (read countries with big military dicks) only intervene when there is something to gain for themselves.

Reasons are just used to justify war for the low/middle class who are the ones who do 90% of the fighting and dying in any war.

[Magus]

Should we support the rebels even? Apparently to many who live there say the rebels are no better than assad

True, and that's because half of the rebels are affiliated with the Al-Qaeda. .

You don't want to do the same mistake America did when they helped Afghanistan and Iraq in the 80s, now do you?

[britishboy]

I don't think we should help Assad or the rebels we should take out Assad and stop the rebels from taking power.

[britishboy]

Non-Lethal aid? HA! Dont believe everything BBC or Sky News tells you, we have been sending in Rifles,Anti-Tank Missiles, Ammo, and even training the FSA for almost a year now. Im not a conspiracy theorist, its video evidence of FSA fighters saying they received Western weapons training.

maybe training and that is a conspiracy theory. we are not allowed to send lethal aid, Russia has used its power in the g8 and stopped us from sending it.

[Harry Smith]

Im not going to go into 9/11..Im just saying, you cant deny that the Syrian Rebels havent been receiving training and weapons. It's been video evidence of FSA fighters saying they've received weapons & tactics training from US and other Western countries in Jordan. It's some Western companies and corperations who've been funding the Syrian Rebels, even a US Government backed website http://syriansupportgroup.org/ who funds them. Most of the Syrian Rebels are Islamic radicals anyway. I'll tell you what, if your so concerned donate to the Syrian Support Group if your that Anti-Assad.

As it clearly states... aiming for a democratic Free syria. We are helping the people of syria rise up against an oppressive regime

[Left Now]

It is also a kind of aggression.

Still Israel wants to take many parts of the Syria and if Assad get overthrown,its aggressions will last until all Middle East got under the flag of Western countries...

This is not something acceptable for people of Iraq,Iran,Turkey and other Middle Eastern countries.However,maybe some Arab countries do not care about it because US and UK themselves are great allies for them,but the people won't agree with it...

On the other side do you really think nowdays you can challenge with Iran in Middle East?Maybe your great medias filled your minds with the weakness of Iran in military stages,but by remembering the 8 years of war,you can recognize that those days we didn't have anything to fight with,but in this era you are weaker than a mouse in Persian Gulf for Iran.Seriously,remember that intervening in Iran or other ME countries means destruction for your economic,because then your government have to pay a lot more than what they paid for beginning of the War...

Also for Harry;No i am not drunken and watch your mouth about that,What is said means your garbage words is not important for me because that aircraft will fall before reaching Iran's lands...

Also Israel really cannot start a war against Iran nowdays,because a war means destruction of Israel in just one day...

[Harry Smith]

It is also a kind of aggression.

Still Israel wants to take many parts of the Syria and if Assad get overthrown,its aggressions will last until all Middle East got under the flag of Western countries...

This is not something acceptable for people of Iraq,Iran,Turkey and other Middle Eastern countries.However,maybe some Arab countries do not care about it because US and UK themselves are great allies for them,but the people won't agree with it...

On the other side do you really think nowdays you can challenge with Iran in Middle East?Maybe your great medias filled your minds with the weakness of Iran in military stages,but by remembering the 8 years of war,you can recognize that those days we didn't have anything to fight with,but in this era you are weaker than a mouse in Persian Gulf for Iran.Seriously,remember that intervening in Iran or other ME countries means destruction for your economic,because then your government have to pay a lot more than what they paid for beginning of the War...

Also for Harry;No i am not drunken and watch your mouth about that,What is said means your garbage words is not important for me because that aircraft will fall before reaching Iran's lands...

Also Israel really cannot start a war against Iran nowdays,because a war means destruction of Israel in just one day...

The word Islamic Rhetoric comes to mind... The aircraft would not fall, espically if they send in a B-2 stealth bomber. Iran is infamous for a having using a RAF term 'hyped up' air force, believing that they are invincible just like Saddam did. Many turks want to intervene, they are getting shelled on the borders and having to deal with millions of refugees.

You talk about your mighty islamic republic but we could destroy you at the click of a button

[britishboy]

The word Islamic Rhetoric comes to mind... The aircraft would not fall, espically if they send in a B-2 stealth bomber. Iran is infamous for a having using a RAF term 'hyped up' air force, believing that they are invincible just like Saddam did. Many turks want to intervene, they are getting shelled on the borders and having to deal with millions of refugees.

You talk about your mighty islamic republic but we could destroy you at the click of a button

lol I love the uk being a nuclear power:D it means we don't have to wurry about nothing like this:p

[Left Now]

You yourself can be destroyed in just a twinkling of eye.

Also you can test your arms with us just in war,so be in the military challenge with our people to see how terrible you can been defeated...Ah yes there are ways for defeating us.First you can use your beauty stored nuclear weapons and the second you can use one of those micro-chemical stored bombs you have to participate in another massacre...
War with Iran means a real weakness for the west.With a war against Iran your powers will dramatically get decreased,so US and UK will never make it to deal with eastern powers charges on their lands...Even if your governments won the battle against us,You won't survive China and Russia...They are waiting to find a weakness in your powers,and then they will smash you with the ashes.War with Iran will provide this weakness..

[britishboy]

You yourself can be destroyed in just a twinkling of eye.

Also you can test your arms with us just in war,so be in the military challenge with our people to see how terrible you can been defeated...Ah yes there are ways for defeating us.First you can use your beauty stored nuclear weapons and the second you can use one of those micro-chemical stored bombs you have to participate in another massacre...
War with Iran means a real weakness for the west.With a war against Iran your powers will dramatically get decreased,so US and UK will never make it to deal with eastern powers charges on their lands...Even if your governments won the battle against us,You won't survive China and Russia...They are waiting to find a weakness in your powers,and then they will smash you with the ashes.War with Iran will provide this weakness..

do you even know what the g8 is its the top 8 most powerful countries they are not allowed to go to war with eachother. also the USA is the moat powerful country in the world, they are best friends with the UK another powerful country Iran can't touch us I'm actually laughing at this:)

[Harry Smith]

You yourself can be destroyed in just a twinkling of eye.

Also you can test your arms with us just in war,so be in the military challenge with our people to see how terrible you can been defeated...Ah yes there are ways for defeating us.First you can use your beauty stored nuclear weapons and the second you can use one of those micro-chemical stored bombs you have to participate in another massacre...
War with Iran means a real weakness for the west.With a war against Iran your powers will dramatically get decreased,so US and UK will never make it to deal with eastern powers charges on their lands...Even if your governments won the battle against us,You won't survive China and Russia...They are waiting to find a weakness in your powers,and then they will smash you with the ashes.War with Iran will provide this weakness..

We could wipe you off the face of the world... we have over 120 nuclear warheads. Iran could not win alone, Israel could easily take you your nuclear weapons with a couple of f-15's , your army just consists of old men charging into minefields

[Atonement]

Hey everyone, as OP, I'm gonna ask we get back on topic and talk about foreign intervention in Syria, not who would win in a pissing match between NATO and Iran.

BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE

[britishboy]

Hey everyone, as OP, I'm gonna ask we get back on topic and talk about foreign intervention in Syria, not who would win in a pissing match between NATO and Iran.

BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE

I'm gonna make a new thread for it:D

[TheBigUnit]

You yourself can be destroyed in just a twinkling of eye.

Also you can test your arms with us just in war,so be in the military challenge with our people to see how terrible you can been defeated...Ah yes there are ways for defeating us.First you can use your beauty stored nuclear weapons and the second you can use one of those micro-chemical stored bombs you have to participate in another massacre...
War with Iran means a real weakness for the west.With a war against Iran your powers will dramatically get decreased,so US and UK will never make it to deal with eastern powers charges on their lands...Even if your governments won the battle against us,You won't survive China and Russia...They are waiting to find a weakness in your powers,and then they will smash you with the ashes.War with Iran will provide this weakness..

Russia and china will be neutral then join in to sip some of your oil


It is also a kind of aggression.

Still Israel wants to take many parts of the Syria and if Assad get overthrown,its aggressions will last until all Middle East got under the flag of Western countries...

This is not something acceptable for people of Iraq,Iran,Turkey and other Middle Eastern countries.However,maybe some Arab countries do not care about it because US and UK themselves are great allies for them,but the people won't agree with it...

On the other side do you really think nowdays you can challenge with Iran in Middle East?Maybe your great medias filled your minds with the weakness of Iran in military stages,but by remembering the 8 years of war,you can recognize that those days we didn't have anything to fight with,but in this era you are weaker than a mouse in Persian Gulf for Iran.Seriously,remember that intervening in Iran or other ME countries means destruction for your economic,because then your government have to pay a lot more than what they paid for beginning of the War...

Also for Harry;No i am not drunken and watch your mouth about that,What is said means your garbage words is not important for me because that aircraft will fall before reaching Iran's lands...

Also Israel really cannot start a war against Iran nowdays,because a war means destruction of Israel in just one day...

You do know that turkey has been our allies and part of nato for over 40 years
I think I remember in history about 6 arab nations saying the same thing.in 1967

[MisterSix]

I say the 'world' already has.
The FSA have probably already been given more money and weapons than could ever dream of using.
I hope the SAA overthrows the rebels. I've seen some pretty nasty handy cam footage of how the FSA treats civilians.

[britishboy]

stop arguing about who would win in war I've made a thread on that and if international laws are broken we have a responsibility to go in

[MisterSix]

stop arguing about who would win in war I've made a thread on that and if international laws are broken we have a responsibility to go in

The chemical bombs? No one is sure on who let them off, so it would be a big fuck up if they supported the side that used them.

[naglfari]

I don't understand why chemical weapons matter, surely all that maters is that they've killed thousands of their own people

[britishboy]

The chemical bombs? No one is sure on who let them off, so it would be a big fuck up if they supported the side that used them.

I 100% agree we need to be sure first

[Left Now]

As i said once...However it is not wise to intervene in another country's government system...Many people in the world are hostile toward UK and US,Will you accept if they intervene in your country?
However who himself is in Syria in this site?
...We are just barking to each other like dogs here while still people are dying in Syria and no one really knows what the truth is...
So let me suggest you to not discuss something without evidence...

[britishboy]

As i said once...However it is not wise to intervene in another country's government system...Many people in the world are hostile toward UK and US,Will you accept if they intervene in your country?
However who himself is in Syria in this site?
...We are just barking to each other like dogs here while still people are dying in Syria and no one really knows what the truth is...
So let me suggest you to not discuss something without evidence...

no evidence!?

just google it!

[Left Now]

Really think google has reliable and true things for anything?
Just two weeks ago there was a new from a fight in Tehran in google,Which was happened in Shar-Ara town,while i am living in this town and there was no track of fighting in here.
All the medias won't tell the truth or whole of the truth..Even ours i believe.

[britishboy]

Really think google has reliable and true things for anything?
Just two weeks ago there was a new from a fight in Tehran in google,Which was happened in Shar-Ara town,while i am living in this town and there was no track of fighting in here.
All the medias won't tell the truth or whole of the truth..Even ours i believe.

do you honestly believe they are happy in Syria?!

[Left Now]

No,but i've seen a lot of Syrians and Iraqi people in Syria and Iraq during 3 years.
They are most better with their governments than their rebels.Still they are ready to support their government instead of rebels to avoid more long civil war.Like what we have in Iran.Also Assad said he would leave the ruling after this rebelion finished,and will leave the government in the hands of election,If people re-elected him then he will came back to cabinet.

[britishboy]

No,but i've seen a lot of Syrians and Iraqi people in Syria and Iraq during 3 years.
They are most better with their governments than their rebels.Still they are ready to support their government instead of rebels to avoid more long civil war.Like what we have in Iran.Also Assad said he would leave the ruling after this rebelion finished,and will leave the government in the hands of election,If people re-elected him then he will came back to cabinet.

lol the rebels look like theyre gonna won. like the war like in Libya and most are against him or left the country? and Assad only said that to calm people down. lol it would help if he didn't bomb hos own. people's and he's not gonna be re elected

[Left Now]

We cannot tell anything like this.I said your medias are saying something and ours something else.
They are all propaganda!But i have seen somethings myself so my belief won't change...

[Harry Smith]

We cannot tell anything like this.I said your medias are saying something and ours something else.
They are all propaganda!But i have seen somethings myself so my belief won't change...

Isn't your media founded by the state? Doesn't your government rape and kill civilians? Didn't you commit war crimes in the 80-88 war? You live in a rather hostile country, I know you like to pretend it's a garden of Eden with trees and honey but in reality it's just the hybrid between Fascism and Religon

[britishboy]

lol what's he saw? has he seen the nukes:0 lol they aren't that big or are they?... I'm scared now:'(

[Southside]

maybe training and that is a conspiracy theory. we are not allowed to send lethal aid, Russia has used its power in the g8 and stopped us from sending it.

Tell me this then, it's been footage of rebels using Western made Anti-Tank & Anti-Aircraft systems, and I've even saw rebels with M16's and FN FAL's, how do they get that?

[britishboy]

Tell me this then, it's been footage of rebels using Western made Anti-Tank & Anti-Aircraft systems, and I've even saw rebels with M16's and FN FAL's, how do they get that?

gin markets the usa has sooooo many gun companies it's unreal that's how they got the gun.

[Southside]

gin markets the usa has sooooo many gun companies it's unreal that's how they got the gun.

Western companies & countries are shipping that shit in through Jordan & Turkey. They arent stealing these weapons from Assad, he doesnt have M16's, he has AK's. It's no way a rebel can aquire a Western Anti-Missile system that cost thousands of dollars without some type of outside help.

[Left Now]

Isn't your media founded by the state? Doesn't your government rape and kill civilians? Didn't you commit war crimes in the 80-88 war? You live in a rather hostile country, I know you like to pretend it's a garden of Eden with trees and honey but in reality it's just the hybrid between Fascism and Religon
Watch your mouth British man!You are going to be so rude...
Then you will make me to say somethings which will make myself sad too.
In 80-88 wars all the war crimes were on Iran when your great British monarch was supporting Saddam.Haven't you heard about people of Kurdistan in Iran which got poisoned by chemicals of Ba'ath regime in Iraq in just first 4 years of war?Or didn't you see Arab-Iranians who were got slaughtered for supporting the Republic?Or maybe you just want to make another history for yourself to believe in it...
Go and read which country started the war,which one used mass killing weapons during the war and which country was supported by USSR,US,France,UK,Germany and...
It is routine you are going to believe what just your medias are telling you,but i saw what happened four years ago in Iran.You just saw what your government showed you and nothing more from Iranian sites.
You didn't see men were injured in burning and by knife.You didn't see when a Little 8 year-old boy was crying and watching his father while he was under kicks and feet of those Green mushrooms because he only had beard.
You didn't see those Green mushrooms were teasing veiled women and those Green female demonstrators were stripping them in center of the street.Yes you didn't see them ofcourse.
So now go and judge about your own country and never again tell what can make me open my mouth...

[britishboy]

Watch your mouth British man!You are going to be so rude...
Then you will make me to say somethings which will make myself sad too.
In 80-88 wars all the war crimes were on Iran when your great British monarch was supporting Saddam.Haven't you heard about people of Kurdistan in Iran which got poisoned by chemicals of Ba'ath regime in Iraq in just first 4 years of war?Or didn't you see Arab-Iranians who were got slaughtered for supporting the Republic?Or maybe you just want to make another history for yourself to believe in it...
Go and read which country started the war,which one used mass killing weapons during the war and which country was supported by USSR,US,France,UK,Germany and...
It is routine you are going to believe what just your medias are telling you,but i saw what happened four years ago in Iran.You just saw what your government showed you and nothing more from Iranian sites.
You didn't see men were injured in burning and by knife.You didn't see when a Little 8 year-old boy was crying and watching his father while he was under kicks and feet of those Green mushrooms because he only had beard.
You didn't see those Green mushrooms were teasing veiled women and those Green female demonstrators were stripping them in center of the street.Yes you didn't see them ofcourse.
So now go and judge about your own country and never again tell what can make me open my mouth...

what a green mushroom? and no need to insult the monarch or britian...

[Harry Smith]

Watch your mouth British man!You are going to be so rude...
Then you will make me to say somethings which will make myself sad too.
In 80-88 wars all the war crimes were on Iran when your great British monarch was supporting Saddam.Haven't you heard about people of Kurdistan in Iran which got poisoned by chemicals of Ba'ath regime in Iraq in just first 4 years of war?Or didn't you see Arab-Iranians who were got slaughtered for supporting the Republic?Or maybe you just want to make another history for yourself to believe in it...
Go and read which country started the war,which one used mass killing weapons during the war and which country was supported by USSR,US,France,UK,Germany and...
It is routine you are going to believe what just your medias are telling you,but i saw what happened four years ago in Iran.You just saw what your government showed you and nothing more from Iranian sites.
You didn't see men were injured in burning and by knife.You didn't see when a Little 8 year-old boy was crying and watching his father while he was under kicks and feet of those Green mushrooms because he only had beard.
You didn't see those Green mushrooms were teasing veiled women and those Green female demonstrators were stripping them in center of the street.Yes you didn't see them ofcourse.
So now go and judge about your own country and never again tell what can make me open my mouth...

Calm down, I never said that Iraq were innocent did I... I merely stated that your country is also pretty fucked. You can't justify your government using torture just because of civil unrest.

The bottom line is I would be killed in your country for sleeping with a man, that's why the west is better and always will be until you lot learn to come to the 21st century

[Left Now]

Who said this?
You can keep it secret forever even if you have a man to marry with him,the court needs four reliable persons to say that they had seen you while you were doing sexual acts with each other which is impossible to prove but it is illegal to declare it in public.This is what they will do to persons who participate in a non-husband-wife sexual connection.
Also using torture is just for spies and terrorists in our country.Not regular demonstrators,If a person got proved to be a spy or something he or she would get tortured to give the governments about what information he/she has from the system of the government...
Many of the demonstrators were in connection with UK embassy during that year,and it could satisfy the government officials to believe they are spies in Iran not demonstrators.
Also,security police in Tehran is like security police in London and Washington or NYC.
Their duty is to prevent a group to pass their red limits.So they will if that group does this.
However gay and lesbian marriages are not useful for the society.Can a man and a man have a child to raise him/her or teach him?No...
Man and woman will complete each other for all the requirements which raising a child needs.But man and man can't do such a thing like this to each other.
However the lesbians,which those four reliable men assured that they had seen them while doing sex acts, won't get killed by government in Iran,they will receive a hitting punishment in the public.But also it will happen when those four persons can bring evidence for what they've seen.
We are in 21th,but on our own culture not on yours.People also know this acceptable.

Also let us get back to the topic and you can tell me your answers by PM.

[chezhans]

Being an Australian, we are all taught that Syria is their business to deal with but with the situation as it is, I don't see why we are all holding back. We are peace makers and upholders are we not? So why are we not seeing to it that the world is as peaceful and happy as it can possibly be? How we do it though will be up to our army leaders.

[Atonement]

As to hopefully put this conversation back on a track that isn't a pissing match between a Brit and an Iranian about things not concerning Syria:

Here what I would think to be best concerning Syra:

1. Increase nonlethal aid to the rebels. We need to do our best to ensure that no more lives are lost. Since we cannot risk giving weapons to rebels and those weapons potentially falling into the wrong hands (mainly referring to jihadists), nonlethal aid to the rebels would be the best possible options.

2. Increase humanitarian support to various locations. Establish humanitarian zones inside Syria, if possible. We need to support the refugee camps outside of Syria to try to contain the war within the borders of Syria. Destabilizing neighbors of Syria will do no good and has to be minimized. Places like Jordan, who already have enough of their own problems, need to remain stable.

3. President Obama drew a red line at chemical weapons. As is habitual with President Assad's regime, the limit has been slowly pushed in subtler ways. In order to maintain credibility, action must be taken by the United States. However, this action cannot be unilateral. I would never suggest sending group troops to intervene in the conflict. The following points are my suggestion on what everyone should do:

4. Engage in relentless diplomacy to allow UN observers to investigate the alleged use of chemical weapons. If they weren't used, Syria has nothing to hide. If they were used, war crimes has been committed.

5. If Syria refuses the entry of the UN, a multilateral no-fly zone needs to be established to cool of the war, preferably implemented by the Arab states around Syria.. If chemical weapon usage continues, the no-fly zone monitors have reason to eliminate weapons of mess destruction related locations.

6. I don't agree with toppling regimes. I agree with protecting people. Committing war crimes is never a sovereign right, therefore Syria has crossed the line of maintaining sovereignty. Due to this, the international community has a virtual obligation to intervene when war crimes are committed. I don't want to see another Rwanda or Bosnia. With the addition of weapons of mass destruction in the equation, even Russia and China will have a hard time justifying not supporting indirect intervention. Sergey Lavrov has hinted toward that himself.

So, yeah. These are my suggestions. :)

[Left Now]

For non-lethal aids i think it must be for both sides,If a country helped rebels by this aids,Why the people who side with government have not to use anon-lethal aids?
So if the supporting of rebels continues(In both military and non-military aids),the other countries have that right to support Syria with their non-lethal aid at least.
Also,there are videos from rebels which show that they have chemical mass destructive weapons,and from the letters on the packs we can recognize that they are from Turkish sources.So i think UN should search rebels stores for those weapons too if there is any decision to research about Assad's chemical weapons.
Also,until Arab countries like Qatar and UAE and Saudi Arabia are supporting Salaffi Jihadists in Syria,i do not think there would be any chance for negotiations between rebels and the government.

[Atonement]

For non-lethal aids i think it must be for both sides,If a country helped rebels by this aids,Why the people who side with government have not to use anon-lethal aids?
So if the supporting of rebels continues(In both military and non-military aids),the other countries have that right to support Syria with their non-lethal aid at least.
Also,there are videos from rebels which show that they have chemical mass destructive weapons,and from the letters on the packs we can recognize that they are from Turkish sources.So i think UN should search rebels stores for those weapons too if there is any decision to research about Assad's chemical weapons.
Also,until Arab countries like Qatar and UAE and Saudi Arabia are supporting Salaffi Jihadists in Syria,i do not think there would be any chance for negotiations between rebels and the government.

I'm having a hard time understanding your points.
Why aid rebels and not the government? Because the government is allegedly committing war crimes and the rebels deserve the materials that won't become a liability in the future to defend themselves.
Why not aid the government? Because the government already has the means to acquire self-defense.
Concerning rebels with chemical weapons: Cite your source please.
If the rebels have chemical weapons, they have yet to be caught using them, so there has been no crime. NGOs in Syria and international observers track what both sides do, not just the regime. So, if war crimes are committed by either side, they would be reported.
As for Qatar, UAE and Saudi Arabia. I don't understand what you're trying to say.

[Left Now]

Friend you have to first go and read about Salaffi Jihadists.They are fully supported by Persian Gulf Arab countries specially by Qatar and Saudi Arabia.They are joint to rebels against Syria government,also the funny thing here is that the Al-Qaeda is a Salaffi Jihadist group and is a group which US and west are fighting with.
Also your sources are telling you about Syria is committing war crimes,Russia and China and Iran and Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan's medias are telling the rebels are committing war crimes.After all this just people who suffer!Also,many people are siding with government still and they are getting injured by rebels,so it is their right to have this kind of aids too.If you do not help them,We will help them with medical aids and rebuilding support...

[Harry Smith]

Who said this?
You can keep it secret forever even if you have a man to marry with him,the court needs four reliable persons to say that they had seen you while you were doing sexual acts with each other which is impossible to prove but it is illegal to declare it in public.This is what they will do to persons who participate in a non-husband-wife sexual connection.
Also using torture is just for spies and terrorists in our country.Not regular demonstrators,If a person got proved to be a spy or something he or she would get tortured to give the governments about what information he/she has from the system of the government...
Many of the demonstrators were in connection with UK embassy during that year,and it could satisfy the government officials to believe they are spies in Iran not demonstrators.
Also,security police in Tehran is like security police in London and Washington or NYC.
Their duty is to prevent a group to pass their red limits.So they will if that group does this.
However gay and lesbian marriages are not useful for the society.Can a man and a man have a child to raise him/her or teach him?No...
Man and woman will complete each other for all the requirements which raising a child needs.But man and man can't do such a thing like this to each other.
However the lesbians,which those four reliable men assured that they had seen them while doing sex acts, won't get killed by government in Iran,they will receive a hitting punishment in the public.But also it will happen when those four persons can bring evidence for what they've seen.
We are in 21th,but on our own culture not on yours.People also know this acceptable.

Also let us get back to the topic and you can tell me your answers by PM.

You homophobic Sexist bigot, this forum is a fucking joke when you have some fucking twat like this not only support tortue but then condone public beatings for the LGBT Community. Your country is fucking backwards, and your deluded in supporting it.

[Left Now]

You homophobic Sexist bigot, this forum is a fucking joke when you have some fucking twat like this not only support tortue but then condone public beatings for the LGBT Community. Your country is fucking backwards, and your deluded in supporting it.
Aren't you able to read my last part of the post which is in your language?
I said let us just talk about the topic and you can PM me if you want to answer.Also if you continue speaking to me like this i'm gonna complain about you to the site admins!Have some respect at least!

[Harry Smith]

Aren't you able to read my last part of the post which is in your language?
I said let us just talk about the topic and you can PM me if you want to answer.Also if you continue speaking to me like this i'm gonna complain about you to the site admins!Have some respect at least!

Go on complain, tell them that a gay 16 year old from England got offended when someone said that he should be beaten in the street. Please tell them that

[Left Now]

I will and i will include that while i didn't insult you,you are barking at me and insulting me.This is my last warning British man!Also if you are an English in Iran no one will hit you.This rule is just for local people and also as i said it requires 4 reliable men to prove that.Which is impossible to find.So now shut your mouth and PM me instead of polluting the atmosphere of the topic.

[Harry Smith]

I will and i will include that while i didn't insult you,you are barking at me and insulting me.This is my last warning British man!Also if you are an English in Iran no one will hit you.This rule is just for local people and also as i said it requires 4 reliable men to prove that.Which is impossible to find.So now shut your mouth and PM me instead of polluting the atmosphere of the topic.

Don't call me british man... I have a name you idiot

[Atonement]

Gentlemen. That is enough. Suggestion to get the other one to shut up and pull yourselves out of more trouble: Take to the PMing if you wish. He who gets the last word really probably only gets the mod's wrath?

As for Salafi concerns. That's interesting. I haven't heard about that. There's a lot of Islam and the Middle East that I don't know about or really understand. I recognize that. Just from pure strategy, that was the list of plans I had come up with. :)

[britishboy]

stop arguing! harry he is from a different culture leave him alone

[Harry Smith]

stop arguing! harry he is from a different culture leave him alone

so that justifies a hate crime?

[britishboy]

so that justifies a hate crime?

I guess not but again that's our culture and just don't go to Iran and you will be fine:D

[Left Now]

Why not come to Iran?As i said it is not for foreigners and it is just for locals.He is safe in Iran.However i think it would be better if we get back to the topic...

[tovaris]

NO it it a SYRIAN civil war and no mather what no one should ever enterven in a civil war.

[Stronk Serb]

As to hopefully put this conversation back on a track that isn't a pissing match between a Brit and an Iranian about things not concerning Syria:

Here what I would think to be best concerning Syra:

1. Increase nonlethal aid to the rebels. We need to do our best to ensure that no more lives are lost. Since we cannot risk giving weapons to rebels and those weapons potentially falling into the wrong hands (mainly referring to jihadists), nonlethal aid to the rebels would be the best possible options.

2. Increase humanitarian support to various locations. Establish humanitarian zones inside Syria, if possible. We need to support the refugee camps outside of Syria to try to contain the war within the borders of Syria. Destabilizing neighbors of Syria will do no good and has to be minimized. Places like Jordan, who already have enough of their own problems, need to remain stable.

3. President Obama drew a red line at chemical weapons. As is habitual with President Assad's regime, the limit has been slowly pushed in subtler ways. In order to maintain credibility, action must be taken by the United States. However, this action cannot be unilateral. I would never suggest sending group troops to intervene in the conflict. The following points are my suggestion on what everyone should do:

4. Engage in relentless diplomacy to allow UN observers to investigate the alleged use of chemical weapons. If they weren't used, Syria has nothing to hide. If they were used, war crimes has been committed.

5. If Syria refuses the entry of the UN, a multilateral no-fly zone needs to be established to cool of the war, preferably implemented by the Arab states around Syria.. If chemical weapon usage continues, the no-fly zone monitors have reason to eliminate weapons of mess destruction related locations.

6. I don't agree with toppling regimes. I agree with protecting people. Committing war crimes is never a sovereign right, therefore Syria has crossed the line of maintaining sovereignty. Due to this, the international community has a virtual obligation to intervene when war crimes are committed. I don't want to see another Rwanda or Bosnia. With the addition of weapons of mass destruction in the equation, even Russia and China will have a hard time justifying not supporting indirect intervention. Sergey Lavrov has hinted toward that himself.

So, yeah. These are my suggestions. :)


My suggestion: stay the hell out of this. That would be the same as if the Brits intervened on the Confederate side in the American civil war. And the new regime is gonna be the same ad in Iraq, fucked up. Democratic, yes, but the country will become a time bomb. I see a pattern repeating about chemical weapons just like with Iraq in '03, while there were no weapons.

[Left Now]

No people will let foreigners to intervene in their countries.