The Future of Gender and Sex [Archive]

Cicero

April 22nd, 2013, 08:25 PM

I probably have to agree with you, which makes me sick. Now a days, if a guy wears a dress, it's not weird, we should praise him for being "himself". Am I "stuck in the 50s"? Yep. Gender meant something, men were men, and women were women. Women acted/dressed like women and men acted/dressed like men.

I look at it and think "Should I really listen to the people who are saying that I should get out of that mindset? When they take something as important and meaningful as sex, and they degrade it to nothing." Our society, I believe, it starting to lessen in morals and values, something that in the 50s meant a lot.

How will a guy of the future know what is appropriate for a guy to wear and how will women know what is appropriate for a woman to wear? We're already mixing up what it means to be a guy and a girl. We're making it seem "good" that a guy wears a skirt or short shorts, and were making it seem "good" for a girl to dress and act like a guy. I can only imagine how confused our next generation of kids will be, especially when were completely remaking the line between male and female.

I know that when I have kids if my son wanted to express himself like that, I would barely talk to him, looking at him I would find disgust, cause I'm like that with people who cross dress now. I'd be completely embarrassed to say he's my son. But that's the future I'm talking about lol

Anyone who cross dress, I believe, is slapping God in the face saying he made you the wrong gender, when in reality, it's just their head that's messed up because its a disorder.

Pure Innocent Nun

April 22nd, 2013, 08:43 PM

Well we're not in the 50's anymore, times have changed and so have peoples opinion on whats okay, whats "meant" for men and women.

I don't see how this will effect children's view on normal, they would go with whatever you teach them until they're older.

If you truly acted that way towards your child then you're not fit to be a parent. Parents are supposed to be accepting and understanding of their children's choices.

Finally, gender shouldn't be decided by the clothes they wear, how they act, and what they do.

randomnessqueen

April 22nd, 2013, 08:44 PM

i think the societal norms will change to having much more lax views of what gender and sex are. though itll never become entirely one idea all around.
for the time being sex is having less and less meaning, hopefully it wont continue down that road.
we are just getting out of the era where being gay or bi is the fad, and growing more toward everyone having their own thing and thats ok. so itll never be, everyone is one way, but we are certainly getting to the point where you can be whatever sexuality you want and thats ok.

PinkFloyd

April 22nd, 2013, 08:46 PM

StoppingTime

April 22nd, 2013, 08:52 PM

I probably have to agree with you, which makes me sick.

okay.

Now a days, if a guy wears a dress, it's not weird, we should praise him for being "himself".Sure some people will think it's weird. But honestly, so what. He's not doing anything to you, so mind your own business and ignore him if you don't like it.

Am I "stuck in the 50s"? Yep. Gender meant something, men were men, and women were women. Women acted/dressed like women and men acted/dressed like men. We're not in the 50s. We probably won't be again in our lifetimes, if ever. And that's a good thing. Society's moving forward, and it's not going to be held back by views like yours.

I look at it and think "Should I really listen to the people who are saying that I should get out of that mindset? Listen to whomever you want. Really.

When they take something as important and meaningful as sex, Okay since when was sex this /meaningful and important/ thing? Because somehow I'm going to think that you, and many teenagers don't see it as this holy, only-for-child-making-when-you're-married kind of thing, and most of society doesn't.

and they degrade it to nothing." what.

Our society, I believe, it starting to lessen in morals and values, something that in the 50s meant a lot. How exactly? It's changing, and apparently you don't like it because you don't seem to like "weird" people who dress "weirdly." That doesn't make it wrong, it means you don't like it. Let's go with what society is starting to think.

How will a guy of the future know what is appropriate for a guy to wear and how will women know what is appropriate for a woman to wear? They'll wear whatever the fuck they want. Honestly how important is clothing and style, anyway? Does that determine society?

We're already mixing up what it means to be a guy and a girl.
and?

We're making it seem "good" that a guy wears a skirt or short shorts, and were making it seem "good" for a girl to dress and act like a guy. Yes, and? Who honestly gives a fuck. And that's the only way I can put it. There's just no reason to get so hung up on something as small as dress.

I can only imagine how confused our next generation of kids will be, especially when were completely remaking the line between male and female.Okay, right. If you go up to a 7 year old now and say, "You know, two women/men can be married just like a man and a woman can." They'll look at you and say, "okay." They won't be all: GOD DIDN'T WANT THAT; IT'S RUINING SOCIETY. WE WON'T BE THE SAME AGAIN.

I know that when I have kids if my son wanted to express himself like that, I would barely talk to him, looking at him I would find disgust, cause I'm like that with people who cross dress now.Then I'm truly sorry for you.

I'd be completely embarrassed to say he's my son. But that's the future I'm talking about lolyea wow lololol1ol1ol!1 wow that's funny.

Anyone who cross dress, I believe, is slapping God in the face saying he made you the wrong gender, when in reality, it's just their head that's messed up because its a disorder.Good thing everyone believes in /your/ god, isn't it...

_______

And I simply think the future will be more accepting and aware. I doubt everyone will be pansexual/bisexual/casual sex buddies with everyone, to put it simply. People will still be heterosexual like they are now, homosexual like they are now, etc. However, I do think people will look at without the negative stigma some people do now. Sure, some never will, but that's true will all things, really.

Perfect_Insanity

April 22nd, 2013, 08:52 PM

Hmm... I don't really think that's where gender is going. Maybe, but, with all the people who have strict gender and sexuality lines, it seems unlikely. That would be an interesting future, though. But I think (In my ideal imagination) people will be allowed to choose their gender or sexuality, and it will be a normal thing to say that you're gay or born a different gender than the one you feel suits you. I think hating gays and transgenders would be a lot like racism now, where it's generally considered wrong, but some people still practice it.
I think sex will stay the same way as it always has been. Some people do it freely, some with only people they love, and others saving themselves for marriage.
(Pure speculation, I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about it or anything)

Sugaree

April 22nd, 2013, 08:52 PM

I sure hope it's never like that. I mean I'd be devestated if the next time I have sex, it will mean nothing at all. Even though I've done it with the same girl for a while now, that dosn't mean it will lose its spark. I really hoope none of that happens!

Sex is sex. It has nothing to do with gender.

PinkFloyd

April 22nd, 2013, 08:53 PM

Sex is sex. It has nothing to do with gender.

Never said it did. Sorry if it came across that way.

LouBerry

April 22nd, 2013, 08:56 PM

Bethany

April 22nd, 2013, 08:56 PM

Origami

April 22nd, 2013, 08:57 PM

okay.

Sure some people will think it's weird. But honestly, so what. He's not doing anything to you, so mind your own business and ignore him if you don't like it.

We're not in the 50s. We probably won't be again in our lifetimes, if ever. And that's a good thing. Society's moving forward, and it's not going to be held back by views like yours.

Listen to whomever you want. Really.

Okay since when was sex this /meaningful and important/ thing? Because somehow I'm going to think that you, and many teenagers don't see it as this holy, only-for-child-making-when-you're-married kind of thing, and most of society doesn't.

what.

How exactly? It's changing, and apparently you don't like it because you don't seem to like "weird" people who dress "weirdly." That doesn't make it wrong, it means you don't like it. Let's go with what society is starting to think.

They'll wear whatever the fuck they want. Honestly how important is clothing and style, anyway? Does that determine society?

and?

Yes, and? Who honestly gives a fuck. And that's the only way I can put it. There's just no reason to get so hung up on something as small as dress.

Okay, right. If you go up to a 7 year old now and say, "You know, two women/men can be married just like a man and a woman can." They'll look at you and say, "okay." They won't be all: GOD DIDN'T WANT THAT; IT'S RUINING SOCIETY. WE WON'T BE THE SAME AGAIN.

Then I'm truly sorry for you.

yea wow lololol1ol1ol!1 wow that's funny.

Good thing everyone believes in /your/ god, isn't it...

_______

And I simply think the future will be more accepting and aware. I doubt everyone will be pansexual/bisexual/casual sex buddies with everyone, to put it simply. People will still be heterosexual like they are now, homosexual like they are now, etc. However, I do think people will look at without the negative stigma some people do now. Sure, some never will, but that's true will all things, really.

This. A thousand times over, this. Just because you're close minded and judgmental doesn't mean it's "right."

Let's talk religion since you decided to throw it in as a defense. We are taught that no man is to judge another for only God is judge, jury, and executioner. Sorry, but you're sinning buddy-boy! :D

Jess

April 22nd, 2013, 09:00 PM

okay.

Sure some people will think it's weird. But honestly, so what. He's not doing anything to you, so mind your own business and ignore him if you don't like it.

We're not in the 50s. We probably won't be again in our lifetimes, if ever. And that's a good thing. Society's moving forward, and it's not going to be held back by views like yours.

Listen to whomever you want. Really.

Okay since when was sex this /meaningful and important/ thing? Because somehow I'm going to think that you, and many teenagers don't see it as this holy, only-for-child-making-when-you're-married kind of thing, and most of society doesn't.

what.

How exactly? It's changing, and apparently you don't like it because you don't seem to like "weird" people who dress "weirdly." That doesn't make it wrong, it means you don't like it. Let's go with what society is starting to think.

They'll wear whatever the fuck they want. Honestly how important is clothing and style, anyway? Does that determine society?

and?

Yes, and? Who honestly gives a fuck. And that's the only way I can put it. There's just no reason to get so hung up on something as small as dress.

Okay, right. If you go up to a 7 year old now and say, "You know, two women/men can be married just like a man and a woman can." They'll look at you and say, "okay." They won't be all: GOD DIDN'T WANT THAT; IT'S RUINING SOCIETY. WE WON'T BE THE SAME AGAIN.

Then I'm truly sorry for you.

yea wow lololol1ol1ol!1 wow that's funny.

Good thing everyone believes in /your/ god, isn't it...

_______

And I simply think the future will be more accepting and aware. I doubt everyone will be pansexual/bisexual/casual sex buddies with everyone, to put it simply. People will still be heterosexual like they are now, homosexual like they are now, etc. However, I do think people will look at without the negative stigma some people do now. Sure, some never will, but that's true will all things, really.

This this this. We're in the freaking 21st century, we're supposed to be more accepting. Who cares if there are people cross dressing.

Acting like a woman, what does that mean? Does that mean I should stay home and cook and clean instead of playing tennis and baseball? Does that mean I should act be quiet, gentle, and submissive? What does that mean?

I have a question for you about clothing...You think men should wear "men's clothes" and women should wear "women's clothes"...Do you think all women should wear skirts and men should wear pants? What about in cultures such as China, where women traditionally wore pants? Should women in those cultures wear skirts? A kilt is basically a skirt, do you think men wearing kilts are "slapping God in the face"?
And this too.

KidImage

April 22nd, 2013, 09:02 PM

I agree with the whole sex thing. Sex was supposed to be for husband and wife and girls now a days are just giving it up like they owe someone.

Perfect_Insanity

April 22nd, 2013, 09:12 PM

okay.

Sure some people will think it's weird. But honestly, so what. He's not doing anything to you, so mind your own business and ignore him if you don't like it.

We're not in the 50s. We probably won't be again in our lifetimes, if ever. And that's a good thing. Society's moving forward, and it's not going to be held back by views like yours.

Listen to whomever you want. Really.

Okay since when was sex this /meaningful and important/ thing? Because somehow I'm going to think that you, and many teenagers don't see it as this holy, only-for-child-making-when-you're-married kind of thing, and most of society doesn't.

what.

How exactly? It's changing, and apparently you don't like it because you don't seem to like "weird" people who dress "weirdly." That doesn't make it wrong, it means you don't like it. Let's go with what society is starting to think.

They'll wear whatever the fuck they want. Honestly how important is clothing and style, anyway? Does that determine society?

and?

Yes, and? Who honestly gives a fuck. And that's the only way I can put it. There's just no reason to get so hung up on something as small as dress.

Okay, right. If you go up to a 7 year old now and say, "You know, two women/men can be married just like a man and a woman can." They'll look at you and say, "okay." They won't be all: GOD DIDN'T WANT THAT; IT'S RUINING SOCIETY. WE WON'T BE THE SAME AGAIN.

Then I'm truly sorry for you.

yea wow lololol1ol1ol!1 wow that's funny.

Good thing everyone believes in /your/ god, isn't it...

Yes yes yes. This is what we need, not acting like every LGBT person kicked your puppy.

I agree with the whole sex thing. Sex was supposed to be for husband and wife and girls now a days are just giving it up like they owe someone.

Yeah, I sort of agree, but I don't think sex really has to be saved for marriage. I think if you really love someone and you're ready,then you shouldn't be limited by too much commitment (Maybe it's just me, but I don't really want to be promised to one person for forever before I lose my virginity.)

PinkFloyd

April 22nd, 2013, 09:18 PM

For real. I can't imagine ever sleeping with someone besides Seth, or it not meaning anything. In fact, that won't ever happen for me. That's scary to think about.

It really is! I mean sex being an everyday thing... AHHH!

LouBerry

April 22nd, 2013, 09:23 PM

It really is! I mean sex being an everyday thing... AHHH!

I know! This is why 13 year olds are having babies. :/ smh.

PinkFloyd

April 22nd, 2013, 09:38 PM

I know! This is why 13 year olds are having babies. :/ smh.

What has this world come to?

Ryhanna

April 22nd, 2013, 09:55 PM

okay.

Sure some people will think it's weird. But honestly, so what. He's not doing anything to you, so mind your own business and ignore him if you don't like it.

We're not in the 50s. We probably won't be again in our lifetimes, if ever. And that's a good thing. Society's moving forward, and it's not going to be held back by views like yours.

Listen to whomever you want. Really.

Okay since when was sex this /meaningful and important/ thing? Because somehow I'm going to think that you, and many teenagers don't see it as this holy, only-for-child-making-when-you're-married kind of thing, and most of society doesn't.

what.

How exactly? It's changing, and apparently you don't like it because you don't seem to like "weird" people who dress "weirdly." That doesn't make it wrong, it means you don't like it. Let's go with what society is starting to think.

They'll wear whatever the fuck they want. Honestly how important is clothing and style, anyway? Does that determine society?

and?

Yes, and? Who honestly gives a fuck. And that's the only way I can put it. There's just no reason to get so hung up on something as small as dress.

Okay, right. If you go up to a 7 year old now and say, "You know, two women/men can be married just like a man and a woman can." They'll look at you and say, "okay." They won't be all: GOD DIDN'T WANT THAT; IT'S RUINING SOCIETY. WE WON'T BE THE SAME AGAIN.

Then I'm truly sorry for you.

yea wow lololol1ol1ol!1 wow that's funny.

Good thing everyone believes in /your/ god, isn't it...

_______

And I simply think the future will be more accepting and aware. I doubt everyone will be pansexual/bisexual/casual sex buddies with everyone, to put it simply. People will still be heterosexual like they are now, homosexual like they are now, etc. However, I do think people will look at without the negative stigma some people do now. Sure, some never will, but that's true will all things, really.

I love you right now. This post is perfect.

All that's changing is the fact that people are becoming more open-minded and accepting, and that's not a bad thing. People willing to challenge societies previous conceptions of what's 'moral' or 'normal' is a good thing. Through doing this, we make it easier for people to express themselves as they truly are, and to do the things that they want to do without fear of being ostracised.

I don't see sex becoming a more casual thing. People already go to parties and hook up drunk - That's about as casual as it gets. Fuck buddies already exist, we don't have to worry about that. As for people becoming pansexual, probably not. There are always going to be straight and gay people, who have no attraction at all to the other sex. However, as homosexuality becomes more accepted and normal, there will be more people willing to embrace it and try it.

xyzB4D-W0LF

April 22nd, 2013, 09:59 PM

never haad a mom.

Sugaree

April 22nd, 2013, 10:00 PM

Apollo.

April 22nd, 2013, 10:02 PM

Perhaps two male friends can have some casual butt sex and then sit down (no pun intended) and play some video games?

Ok yeah, that sounds fantastic to me haha, really I don't care live and let live, if society is better off with things being that way(I reckon it would be great with less hate) then awesome.

Cicero

April 22nd, 2013, 11:14 PM

Acting like a woman, what does that mean? Does that mean I should stay home and cook and clean instead of playing tennis and baseball? Does that mean I should act be quiet, gentle, and submissive? What does that mean?

I have a question for you about clothing...You think men should wear "men's clothes" and women should wear "women's clothes"...Do you think all women should wear skirts and men should wear pants? What about in cultures such as China, where women traditionally wore pants? Should women in those cultures wear skirts? A kilt is basically a skirt, do you think men wearing kilts are "slapping God in the face"?
No. But it means you shouldn't try to be masculine, who cares what job you have, I'm just saying girls shouldn't be masculine and guys shouldn't be feminine. If a girl wears pants that doesn't mean she's not feminine. If a guy wears a kilt because its tradition, thats fine. But if a guy wears a skirt (skirts and kilts are different) then I believe that's not only wrong, but disgusting.
This. A thousand times over, this. Just because you're close minded and judgmental doesn't mean it's "right."

Let's talk religion since you decided to throw it in as a defense. We are taught that no man is to judge another for only God is judge, jury, and executioner. Sorry, but you're sinning buddy-boy! :D
God also says that if a "brother or sister" has a plank in his eye, you should help him remove it so that he may see. But yes, I'm very judgmental, it's not like that's bad. It makes me opinionated :D

Just because I say it's wrong to cross dress, doesn't mean I'm being judgmental, let alone sinning.

Horatio Nelson

April 22nd, 2013, 11:28 PM

It's always frustrating to me when people say being against homosexuality is "judgemental" but then that's judging us for having an opinion. Who said we had to be conformists?

Origami

April 22nd, 2013, 11:29 PM

No. But it means you shouldn't try to be masculine, who cares what job you have, I'm just saying girls shouldn't be masculine and guys shouldn't be feminine. If a girl wears pants that doesn't mean she's not feminine. If a guy wears a kilt because its tradition, thats fine. But if a guy wears a skirt (skirts and kilts are different) then I believe that's not only wrong, but disgusting.

God also says that if a "brother or sister" has a plank in his eye, you should help him remove it so that he may see. But yes, I'm very judgmental, it's not like that's bad. It makes me opinionated :D

Just because I say it's wrong to cross dress, doesn't mean I'm being judgmental, let alone sinning.

My point, don't use religion as a defense if you don't follow it to a tee.

Cicero

April 22nd, 2013, 11:32 PM

My point, don't use religion as a defense if you don't follow it to a tee.

I said that I believe. Not As a defense

workingatperfect

April 22nd, 2013, 11:35 PM

I don't know about the sexuality thing, but I definitely think gender will become more undefined in the future, and I find that to be a wonderful thing. I don't want my kids to worry about whether or not they'll get bullied for dressing or acting "wrong." I really hope my kids can grow up in society where they can feel safe and secure with being themselves, though I know that's a long shot. Sadly, there's always going to be judgmental people. If not gender roles, they'll find something else to pick at. I mean, guys can look a bit silly in dresses, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't wear them with fucking pride anyway.

I know that when I have kids if my son wanted to express himself like that, I would barely talk to him, looking at him I would find disgust, cause I'm like that with people who cross dress now. I'd be completely embarrassed to say he's my son. But that's the future I'm talking about lol

Wow. I hope for the sake of these hypothetical kids, you don't become a father. Anyone who would practically disown their child over something as trivial as expressing themselves doesn't deserve kids.

Cicero

April 22nd, 2013, 11:39 PM

I don't know about the sexuality thing, but I definitely think gender will become more undefined in the future, and I find that to be a wonderful thing. I don't want my kids to worry about whether or not they'll get bullied for dressing or acting "wrong." I really hope my kids can grow up in society where they can feel safe and secure with being themselves, though I know that's a long shot. Sadly, there's always going to be judgmental people. If not gender roles, they'll find something else to pick at. I mean, guys can look a bit silly in dresses, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't wear them with fucking pride anyway.

Wow. I hope for the sake of these hypothetical kids, you don't become a father. Anyone who would practically disown their child over something as trivial as expressing themselves doesn't deserve kids.

Cross dressing is not expressing oneself, let alone trivial

workingatperfect

April 22nd, 2013, 11:43 PM

Cross dressing is not expressing oneself, let alone trivial

How is not expressing oneself? Al it is is clothing. Clothing is a form of self expression. And it is trivial. You wouldn't disown them for wearing weird shoes would you? There's no difference. At least there shouldn't be, and wouldn't be if not for people like you.

Jess

April 22nd, 2013, 11:49 PM

Cicero

April 22nd, 2013, 11:54 PM

How is not expressing oneself? Al it is is clothing. Clothing is a form of self expression. And it is trivial. You wouldn't disown them for wearing weird shoes would you? There's no difference. At least there shouldn't be, and wouldn't be if not for people like you.
Shoes would be different than a guy wearing a skirt and being all "fabulous".
Explain how it's "disgusting". I see nothing disgusting about it. It's not hurting you.

It's leaving a mental scar. It's disturbing. It's like if you saw a girl touching herself on public and doing other sexual stuff to her, sure, it's not harming you. But it still leaves a mental scar.

workingatperfect

April 23rd, 2013, 12:03 AM

Shoes would be different than a guy wearing a skirt and being all "fabulous".

It's leaving a mental scar. It's disturbing. It's like if you saw a girl touching herself on public and doing other sexual stuff to her, sure, it's not harming you. But it still leaves a mental scar.

But they shouldn't be different. What I find disgusting is that people can be so narrow minded and judgmental.

Well, being bullied and shunned for being yourself is a lot more mentally and emotionally scarring than it would be for you.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 12:07 AM

But they shouldn't be different. What I find disgusting is that people can be so narrow minded and judgmental.

Well, being bullied and shunned for being yourself is a lot more mentally and emotionally scarring than it would be for you.

I only feel bad for people who get bullied if its something they can't really change, like weight (to an extent), voice, physical appearance, etc.

You can change whether or not you dresses like a freak or not.

workingatperfect

April 23rd, 2013, 12:13 AM

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 12:13 AM

You're disgusting.

I don't know why but ok lol

StoppingTime

April 23rd, 2013, 05:33 AM

I only feel bad for people who get bullied if its something they can't really change, like weight (to an extent), voice, physical appearance, etc.

You can change whether or not you dresses like a freak or not.

Then once again, I'm truly sorry for you. Sorry that you have such bigoted judgmental opinions. Sorry that you don't care about other people, and only care what the hell it is they're wearing. Thing is though, people won't care about people like you. They're not going to be held back. So you can march to this twisted logic your whole life, but I think you'll find it'll end you up in a shitty place.

You're disgusting.

Oh, I could have just said it that way, I guess. If you're really going to say your judgment is okay, then whatever, but keep it to yourself.

workingatperfect

April 23rd, 2013, 08:12 AM

I don't know why but ok lol

Why? Because you want to shove people in this little box of what you think is acceptable, and if they don't fit into that box, or don't want to fit, then you think its ok for them to be ridiculed and mistreated and subjected to emotional, mental and physical pain.

Oh, I could have just said it that way, I guess. If you're really going to say your judgment is okay, then whatever, but keep it to yourself.
Was this to him or me? Sorry if my comment was out of line.

Pure Innocent Nun

April 23rd, 2013, 08:38 AM

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 01:32 PM

But yes, I'm very judgmental, it's not like that's bad. It makes me opinionated :D

No, it makes you a giant prick. Being a judgmental person is a bad thing, because it means you're refusing to see anything other than your own view. Being opinionated means you have a diverse view on many different subjects. They're not one in the same. If you're going to be judgmental, why the fuck are you here? No one is here to be judgmental, and you've just admitted that you're very judgmental as a person. Your best bet is to get out before you stir up any MORE trouble than you might already be in.

Horizon

April 23rd, 2013, 02:01 PM

Cross dressing is not expressing oneself, let alone trivial

Let me ask a question, bud.

What do you feel defines self expression?

Before you answer, I'll answer.

Self expression is shown in, what I think, is wonderful way. Art.
Now I am not saying cross dressing is art, but let me get to that first.
Art. It comes in a seemingly infinite form. There are so many ways you can use art to express yourself, there are no limits.
But that is just the thing. There is no limits in art. There is no set of rules, there is no set way of doing something. There are guidelines to help beginners, but there is more than one way to make art.

So why should self expression be limited to just art? Why can't it be the way we dress, the tattoos we get, the hair we dye? We all have our own unique way of dressing, doing our hair, our make up, we are not all the same. Which is why I consider the way we dress as self expression. It should not matter that a guy chooses to wear a dress. It should not matter if a girl shops in a guy clothes store. They are just doing what makes them comfortable. Comfortable.

I probably will never be able to stress that enough. You're judging people on something that makes them comfortable. While making you uncomfortable, it is not your business nor your right to tell them they are wrong, disgusting, or 'weird'. That just makes them uncomfortable with who they are, which leads to insecurities, which leads a huge list of unwanted things.

My point is, the way you dress is self expression.

It's leaving a mental scar. It's disturbing. It's like if you saw a girl touching herself on public and doing other sexual stuff to her, sure, it's not harming you. But it still leaves a mental scar.

It creates a mental scar, if you allow it too.

And please don't try to use public sex and voyeurism as a defense in your argument. Its one thing to dress how it makes you comfortable, but its another to put your genitals on display, let alone sexually stimulating yourself.
Those are two completely different things.

I only feel bad for people who get bullied if its something they can't really change, like weight (to an extent), voice, physical appearance, etc.

You can change whether or not you dresses like a freak or not.

Yeah, but should people honestly have to change the way they dress because they might get bullied, or harassed? Should people have to dress in a way that is deemed normal, even if it makes them uncomfortable, to avoid bullying? I don't think that is right for a single moment, and I am surprised you do.

So pretty much with this post, I am trying to say, you shouldn't be so quick to judge someone and tell them they are wrong. I am pretty sure you don't appreciate it when some does it to you, and tells you that you're 'disgusting' for having the opinions that you have. While I always feel its wrong to make judgement on someone like that, I'd have to adjust the statement to say
Your views on life are disgusting.
Because I don't know you personally, I can't tell you if you're disgusting or not. But I'll have to say, after having read your posts in the past when I first joined, up until now, you have a very, very, close minded way of thinking.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 04:40 PM

Let me ask a question, bud.

What do you feel defines self expression?

Before you answer, I'll answer.

Self expression is shown in, what I think, is wonderful way. Art.
Now I am not saying cross dressing is art, but let me get to that first.
Art. It comes in a seemingly infinite form. There are so many ways you can use art to express yourself, there are no limits.
But that is just the thing. There is no limits in art. There is no set of rules, there is no set way of doing something. There are guidelines to help beginners, but there is more than one way to make art.

So why should self expression be limited to just art? Why can't it be the way we dress, the tattoos we get, the hair we dye? We all have our own unique way of dressing, doing our hair, our make up, we are not all the same. Which is why I consider the way we dress as self expression. It should not matter that a guy chooses to wear a dress. It should not matter if a girl shops in a guy clothes store. They are just doing what makes them comfortable. Comfortable.

I probably will never be able to stress that enough. You're judging people on something that makes them comfortable. While making you uncomfortable, it is not your business nor your right to tell them they are wrong, disgusting, or 'weird'. That just makes them uncomfortable with who they are, which leads to insecurities, which leads a huge list of unwanted things.

My point is, the way you dress is self expression.

It creates a mental scar, if you allow it too.

And please don't try to use public sex and voyeurism as a defense in your argument. Its one thing to dress how it makes you comfortable, but its another to put your genitals on display, let alone sexually stimulating yourself.
Those are two completely different things.

Yeah, but should people honestly have to change the way they dress because they might get bullied, or harassed? Should people have to dress in a way that is deemed normal, even if it makes them uncomfortable, to avoid bullying? I don't think that is right for a single moment, and I am surprised you do.

So pretty much with this post, I am trying to say, you shouldn't be so quick to judge someone and tell them they are wrong. I am pretty sure you don't appreciate it when some does it to you, and tells you that you're 'disgusting' for having the opinions that you have. While I always feel its wrong to make judgement on someone like that, I'd have to adjust the statement to say
Your views on life are disgusting.
Because I don't know you personally, I can't tell you if you're disgusting or not. But I'll have to say, after having read your posts in the past when I first joined, up until now, you have a very, very, close minded way of thinking.
If they choose to dress weird, I won't pity them for getting made fun of. I'm not into fulfilling someone else's self pity. I do believe clothes are an expression of yourself, that's why I would never be friends with a person who cross dresses. I would have nothing in common with him.

Did you just wake up as a terrible person?
that's pretty rude.
Then once again, I'm truly sorry for you. Sorry that you have such bigoted judgmental opinions. Sorry that you don't care about other people, and only care what the hell it is they're wearing. Thing is though, people won't care about people like you. They're not going to be held back. So you can march to this twisted logic your whole life, but I think you'll find it'll end you up in a shitty place.

Oh, I could have just said it that way, I guess. If you're really going to say your judgment is okay, then whatever, but keep it to yourself.
Well, apparently I am judgmental, cause everyone on here is saying I am (which it's not judgmental thinking a guy wearing a skirt is a freak) I don't care about what people wear, I just don't want them looking weird. I wouldn't ever have a friend who cross dresses cause it's weird, that's not bigoted of me. Most of my friends don't wear what I wear (mostly due to their finances), it doesn't mean I'm not gonna be friends with them. But the moment my friend starts cross dressing, wearing makeup, etc. thats when I'm gonna step away from him. If you're gay and you wanna wear a pink shirt, I don't care, if you wanna having a earring, I don't really care much, but the minute that you start wearing booty shorts and cross dressing, that's the minute I'm gonna step away and leave you to your life.
Why? Because you want to shove people in this little box of what you think is acceptable, and if they don't fit into that box, or don't want to fit, then you think its ok for them to be ridiculed and mistreated and subjected to emotional, mental and physical pain.

Was this to him or me? Sorry if my comment was out of line.

So if you saw a guy wearing short shorts or a skirt or dress, you wouldn't think he's weird or a freak? Hmmm. That's weird, cause I sure would. When people get mocked for something they could easily change, I don't feel bd because they're bringing it on themselves. Just like a person who smokes a pack a day of cigarettes, I wouldn't really feel bad if they got lung cancer. Because they'd be promoting that lung cancer.

It's funny how everyone thinks I'm bigoted for not liking cross dressing. There are people that you would never hangout with, but that doesn't make you people bigoted. Just how it doesn't make me bigoted for never, ever being friends with a cross dresser. You all are just as worse as I am, you're slandering and being judgmental toward me, just as much as I'm being judgmental. If you're made fun of for being gay, having depression, having a high or low pitched voice, or anything like that I feel bad for you. But if it's something that can be changed with ease and you choose not to change, and you are still made fun of, I do not feel bad for you. For some reason, that's bad not feeling bad for someone who chooses to be made fun of.

Rayquaza

April 23rd, 2013, 05:06 PM

If they choose to dress weird, I won't pity them for getting made fun of. I'm not into fulfilling someone else's self pity. I do believe clothes are an expression of yourself, that's why I would never be friends with a person who cross dresses. I would have nothing in common with him.

that's pretty rude.

Well, apparently I am judgmental, cause everyone on here is saying I am (which it's not judgmental thinking a guy wearing a skirt is a freak) I don't care about what people wear, I just don't want them looking weird. I wouldn't ever have a friend who cross dresses cause it's weird, that's not bigoted of me. Most of my friends don't wear what I wear (mostly due to their finances), it doesn't mean I'm not gonna be friends with them. But the moment my friend starts cross dressing, wearing makeup, etc. thats when I'm gonna step away from him. If you're gay and you wanna wear a pink shirt, I don't care, if you wanna having a earring, I don't really care much, but the minute that you start wearing booty shorts and cross dressing, that's the minute I'm gonna step away and leave you to your life.

So if you saw a guy wearing short shorts or a skirt or dress, you wouldn't think he's weird or a freak? Hmmm. That's weird, cause I sure would. When people get mocked for something they could easily change, I don't feel bd because they're bringing it on themselves. Just like a person who smokes a pack a day of cigarettes, I wouldn't really feel bad if they got lung cancer. Because they'd be promoting that lung cancer.

It's funny how everyone thinks I'm bigoted for not liking cross dressing. There are people that you would never hangout with, but that doesn't make you people bigoted. Just how it doesn't make me bigoted for never, ever being friends with a cross dresser. You all are just as worse as I am, you're slandering and being judgmental toward me, just as much as I'm being judgmental.

I think that rather than quoting someone and writing "this^" and "yes yes yes" to iterate my point, I'll write my own view on it.

But yes I've just read posts that have been said here, and the fact of the matter is that you are judgemental. You aren't "apparently" judgmental, you just are.

What does judgmental mean, exactly?

To be judgmental means to be prejudiced towards someone. It sounds bad but effectively it is what you were doing;

The word prejudice refers to prejudgment: i.e. making a decision before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case. In recent times, the word has come to be most often used to refer to preconceived, usually unfavorable, judgments toward people or a person because of gender, social class, age, disability, religion, sexuality, race/ethnicity, language, nationality or other personal characteristics.

And then there's this;

(which it's not judgmental thinking a guy wearing a skirt is a freak) I don't care about what people wear, I just don't want them looking weird.

That is damn right disgraceful, I have to say. Basically, what someone chooses to wear labels their personality hmm? Ok, now let's look at it this way, since that infers someone is weird, if we look at something, say, sexuality, according to your logic we can just label someone gay, straight or bi.

What does that mean for you? Well, all those sexuality posts you made yourself, under your logic, would label you as gay, no matter how in denial. Now, that's just an example, but what I'm trying to show you is that you can't generalise and stereotype one thing with another. And what's your perception of "a freak". A freak of what? Nature? So someone dresses differently, they're a freak of nature, basically. That is a really positive attitude to have(!)

Our society, I believe, it starting to lessen in morals and values, something that in the 50s meant a lot.
Sorry, my date must be wrong. Is the correct year 1956 at the moment? I never noticed.

Morale and Values change over time, you should know that (do you seriously study business studies or were you making that up?). In this day and age, it is acceptable to wear things how you like, just as long as it's not psychologically harming others such as public nudity in a western society.

Anyone who cross dress, I believe, is slapping God in the face saying he made you the wrong gender, when in reality, it's just their head that's messed up because its a disorder.

Do you read what you write or just say whatever? Are YOU God? No. You're just usurping the role of god. It isn't your fucking problem if someone is born one way or another. So what about other disorders? What about Aspergers, MPD, Schizophrenia? Oh the people with them must be freaks too, according to your logic.

Not everyone is as "perfect" as you (however ironic that is). People have issues, and they were created like that. It's not up to you to tell them what they can and cannot do, it's up to the human mind. It isn't your god damn problem if someone dresses differently.

When they take something as important and meaningful as sex,

Sex is just sex alright. Sex is to reproduce. It is our purpose. Our purpose as human beings. Our purpose is to keep reproducing to create the best organism that can live through Earth's changes. Survival of the fittest. But of course since you're too stuck on religion you'll completely blank this paragraph out.

It is indeed people like you that make me lose faith in humanity. Really. You people are so deluded into thinking that your way is right and can never adapt to changes or take criticism. People are people, you are not god and you have no say in what others do. You should care about yourself rather than others, who are you to say what people can and cannot wear? In fact, I said this several times to you and you never answer this or any other question, just go off topic on another tangent.

Society will advance way faster than you do. But by the time you realize that, you'll be the one to be labelled "a freak" as you are still stuck in the mentality of a middle-aged man in the 50's, considering you were not even born in that time.

They aren't being judgmental towards you. They are giving you the facts.

Twilly F. Sniper

April 23rd, 2013, 05:07 PM

Society will turn into many different people with their own unique traits. Everyone will finally be free to be who they are, without criticism.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 05:13 PM

I think that rather than quoting someone and writing "this^" and "yes yes yes" to iterate my point, I'll write my own view on it.

But yes I've just read posts that have been said here, and the fact of the matter is that you are judgemental. You aren't "apparently" judgmental, you just are.

What does judgmental mean, exactly?

To be judgmental means to be prejudiced towards someone. It sounds bad but effectively it is what you were doing;

The word prejudice refers to prejudgment: i.e. making a decision before becoming aware of the relevant facts of a case. In recent times, the word has come to be most often used to refer to preconceived, usually unfavorable, judgments toward people or a person because of gender, social class, age, disability, religion, sexuality, race/ethnicity, language, nationality or other personal characteristics.

And then there's this;

That is damn right disgraceful, I have to say. Basically, what someone chooses to wear labels their personality hmm? Ok, now let's look at it this way, since that infers someone is weird, if we look at something, say, sexuality, according to your logic we can just label someone gay, straight or bi.

What does that mean for you? Well, all those sexuality posts you made yourself, under your logic, would label you as gay, no matter how in denial. Now, that's just an example, but what I'm trying to show you is that you can't generalise and stereotype one thing with another. And what's your perception of "a freak". A freak of what? Nature? So someone dresses differently, they're a freak of nature, basically. That is a really positive attitude to have(!)

Sorry, my date must be wrong. Is the correct year 1956 at the moment? I never noticed.

Morale and Values change over time, you should know that (do you seriously study business studies or were you making that up?). In this day and age, it is acceptable to wear things how you like, just as long as it's not psychologically harming others such as public nudity in a western society.

Do you read what you write or just say whatever? Are YOU God? No. You're just usurping the role of god. It isn't your fucking problem if someone is born one way or another. So what about other disorders? What about Aspergers, MPD, Schizophrenia? Oh the people with them must be freaks too, according to your logic.

Not everyone is as "perfect" as you (however ironic that is). People have issues, and they were created like that. It's not up to you to tell them what they can and cannot do, it's up to the human mind. It isn't your god damn problem if someone dresses differently.

Sex is just sex alright. Sex is to reproduce. It is our purpose. Our purpose as human beings. Our purpose is to keep reproducing to create the best organism that can live through Earth's changes. Survival of the fittest. But of course since you're too stuck on religion you'll completely blank this paragraph out.

It is indeed people like you that make me lose faith in humanity. Really. You people are so deluded into thinking that your way is right and can never adapt to changes or take criticism. People are people, you are not god and you have no say in what others do. You should care about yourself rather than others, who are you to say what people can and cannot wear? In fact, I said this several times to you and you never answer this or any other question, just go off topic on another tangent.

Society will advance way faster than you do. But by the time you realize that, you'll be the one to be labelled "a freak" as you are still stuck in the mentality of a middle-aged man in the 50's, considering you were not even born in that time.

They aren't being judgmental towards you. They are giving you the facts.

I've never heard of this interesting fact: "You're disgusting"

I'm far from perfect. I don't care what people wear, I just said that I would never have a cross dressing friend. I wouldn't be labeled as "a freak" but I might be labeled as "an insensitive jerk" or as others have said "a prick". Making insults is No way to debate, especially when someone's trying to change my opinion

Rayquaza

April 23rd, 2013, 05:21 PM

I've never heard of this interesting fact: "You're disgusting"

That's quite irrelevant.

I'm far from perfect. I don't care what people wear, I just said that I would never have a cross dressing friend. I wouldn't be labeled as "a freak" but I might be labeled as "an insensitive jerk" or as others have said "a prick".

Oh my gosh will you stop feeling sorry for yourself and put a sock in? You just said, numerous times that you are judgmental, you DO care what people wear, otherwise if you didn't, you wouldn't care and you wouldn't label them as freaks. That's such a contradictory thing to say, that you don't care. And yes, you will be labelled that and will continue to until your attitude, specifically, changes fast. If you choose to stay in this mentality, it will get you no where, no relationships and no friends.

Back to the topic, I don't think we will live in a pansexual world. There will always be the attraction between opposite sexes only. I would think (rose-colored glasses on) that equality will come along.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 05:34 PM

That's quite irrelevant.

Oh my gosh will you stop feeling sorry for yourself and put a sock in? You just said, numerous times that you are judgmental, you DO care what people wear, otherwise if you didn't, you wouldn't care and you wouldn't label them as freaks. That's such a contradictory thing to say, that you don't care. And yes, you will be labelled that and will continue to until your attitude, specifically, changes fast. If you choose to stay in this mentality, it will get you no where, no relationships and no friends.

Back to the topic, I don't think we will live in a pansexual world. There will always be the attraction between opposite sexes only. I would think (rose-colored glasses on) that equality will come along.

You said that ppl are giving me facts, yet some of these people are criticizing me and saying I'm disgusting.

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 05:37 PM

You said that ppl are giving me facts, yet some of these people are criticizing me and saying I'm disgusting.

Because that's what you are. You claim to be a Christian, yet are worse than some atheists I know. You're a disgusting individual who wants to shove everyone into what YOU think is right and that there can be no other way. Seriously, get out. Just get out and leave us alone. I'll be more than glad to take your theoretical kids into my home if you ever treat them this way.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 05:43 PM

Because that's what you are. You claim to be a Christian, yet are worse than some atheists I know. You're a disgusting individual who wants to shove everyone into what YOU think is right and that there can be no other way. Seriously, get out. Just get out and leave us alone. I'll be more than glad to take your theoretical kids into my home if you ever treat them this way.

I claim to be a non practicing catholic.

http://i.imgur.com/WUDvObY.png

Sorry I think ^ that is a little weird, freakish, and disgusting, sorry I don't find that to be normal. Cause every guy I know dresses like that weirdo :rolleyes: You guys aren't trying to shove me into what you guys think is right? Cause that's what you're all doing.

StoppingTime

April 23rd, 2013, 05:45 PM

I claim to be a non practicing catholic.

Yet you use the Bible and your god to back you up in all your arguments?

image (http://i.imgur.com/WUDvObY.png)

Sorry I think ^ that is a little weird, freakish, and disgusting, sorry I don't find that to be normal. Cause every guy I know dresses like that thing :rolleyes:

Than think whatever. the. fuck. you. want. Nobody's going to change your opinions, obviously. But it's a simple fact that your opinion is outdated, and nobody (well nobody respectable) is going to do anything to accommodate these opinions. So if you want to disown your hypothetical son because he's a "cross dressing freak", I just hope you don't have kids.

Harry Smith

April 23rd, 2013, 05:46 PM

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 05:47 PM

I claim to be a non practicing catholic.

image (http://i.imgur.com/WUDvObY.png)

Sorry I think ^ that is a little weird, freakish, and disgusting, sorry I don't find that to be normal. Cause every guy I know dresses like that thing :rolleyes: You guys aren't trying to shove me into what you guys think is right? Cause that's what you're all doing.

Don't claim to be something you're obviously not. If you're not going to follow what your God commands, then don't fucking follow that God.

Richard Simmons doesn't represent the cross dressing community. He's a personal trainer, they dress like that. I've had male personal trainers who dress in short shorts and tight shirts. What's wrong with it? Does your masculinity have something to do with it?

Also, we're not trying to force you into what we think is right.

workingatperfect

April 23rd, 2013, 05:52 PM

I've never heard of this interesting fact: "You're disgusting"

Oh get over it. People don't deserve to get bullied because they don't want to conform to your definition of normal. I guess you think scantily clad women are asking for it when they get raped? Basically the same logical there. Should I be bullied because I listen to ICP? That's something I could change if I wanted to. Or how bout because I have blonde hair? I can dye that. I'm not going to apologize for calling you disgusting. That's a pretty heartless view and I do find that to be a gross example of what's wrong with the world. No, I don't think we're judging you. You have very clearly shown what kind of person you are and we're simply pointing it out.

I don't care what people wear

Yet you won't be friends with someone because of what they wear...

Oh, and to answer a question you asked earlier ("So if you saw a guy wearing short shorts or a skirt or dress, you wouldn't think he's weird or a freak?")
No, not really. It's different, I don't think it's weird or freaky. There was a guy on American Idol who wore skirts and heels and stuff. I barely noticed after the first few seconds I saw him.
There's a guy in my town who cross dresses. Sure, I giggle sometimes because aside from his clothes, he's very masculine, but if I passed him walking down the street, I'd give him a hug and tell him I admired his courage. and it does take a lot of fucking courage to dress like that in a world where people like you are WAY too abundant.
And then there's Billie Joe Armstrong, one of my favorite celebrities, I'd even consider him an idol (Oh wait, are girls allowed to have male idols? OR is that wrong too?) and this:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljm6470NGM1qb6hyt.png
Does not change that. Nor do all the other pictures you can find of him in dresses.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 05:54 PM

Yet you use the Bible and your god to back you up in all your arguments?

Than think whatever. the. fuck. you. want. Nobody's going to change your opinions, obviously. But it's a simple fact that your opinion is outdated, and nobody (well nobody respectable) is going to do anything to accommodate these opinions. So if you want to disown your hypothetical son because he's a "cross dressing freak", I just hope you don't have kids.
I said I believe it's a big slap in the face of God. I never used him to back anything up, I just said that its a big slap in the face to him.
It's fine to think it's weird, I can understand you not liking it but isn't disgusting a bit to far? what has someone wearing a dress ever done to you?
Disgusting -profound disapproval aroused by unpleasant and offensive
I find Richard Simmons both offensive and unpleasant.
[QUOTE=Fisk;2242804]Don't claim to be something you're obviously not. If you're not going to follow what your God commands, then don't fucking follow that God.

Richard Simmons doesn't represent the cross dressing community. He's a personal trainer, they dress like that. I've had male personal trainers who dress in short shorts and tight shirts. What's wrong with it? Does your masculinity have something to do with it?

Also, we're not trying to force you into what we think is right. /QUOTE]

Was he a transvestite? Personal trainers I've seen wore shorts or pants with a tank top. Not a dress or booty shorts.

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 05:57 PM

Was he a transvestite? Personal trainers I've seen wore shorts or pants with a tank top. Not a dress or booty shorts.

No, he's not a transvestite. You clearly know nothing of what you're speaking about and, in place of that knowledge, you want to spread your own viciousness. Either learn that shit like this doesn't affect you and that you're dehumanizing people or simply go away.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 05:58 PM

Oh get over it. People don't deserve to get bullied because they don't want to conform to your definition of normal. I guess you think scantily clad women are asking for it when they get raped? Basically the same logical there. Should I be bullied because I listen to ICP? That's something I could change if I wanted to. Or how bout because I have blonde hair? I can dye that. I'm not going to apologize for calling you disgusting. That's a pretty heartless view and I do find that to be a gross example of what's wrong with the world. No, I don't think we're judging you. You have very clearly shown what kind of person you are and we're simply pointing it out.

Yet you won't be friends with someone because of what they wear...

I care what my friends wear to an extent. It doesn't have to be the same brand as me, it just can't look like they're cross dressing. I don't know what icp is. Blonde hair isn't weird.

If a woman walked around the streets basically nude, and she got raped. I would feel bad, I'd think "We'll, she did decide to dress like that. She should've been smarter and dressed more appropriately, especially when walking around the street". It's be sad. But I wouldn't feel to bad.

I don't really care what happens to other people if they aren't close to me or my friends. If someone on here said they were about to commit suicide, I would try to talk them out of it, but I wouldn't lose sleep if they did.

No, he's not a transvestite. You clearly know nothing of what you're speaking about and, in place of that knowledge, you want to spread your own viciousness. Either learn that shit like this doesn't affect you and that you're dehumanizing people or simply go away.

It affects my eyes seeing people like Richard Simmons. It's repulsive and disgusting, especially a guy of that age (who isn't even fit to begin with). How have I dehumanized anyone by saying cross dressing is disgusting? Disney wouldn't hire a cross dresser, news stations wouldn't hire a cross dresser.

Posts Merged.

StoppingTime

April 23rd, 2013, 06:00 PM

I would feel bad, I'd think

It's be sad. But I wouldn't feel bad.

This is why nobody takes you seriously in debates.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 06:04 PM

This is why nobody takes you seriously in debates.

Ohh oops lol.

workingatperfect

April 23rd, 2013, 06:12 PM

I don't know what icp is. Blonde hair isn't weird.

They're a band, but that's not important. The point is, somebody somewhere might think that it's weird, and they might pick on me for it. That doesn't mean I should dye my hair to suit their desires, just to avoid being bullied. Now, I have a feeling you're going to say that what we're doing is trying to change your view to suit us, and that we're bullying you into doing it, but there's a difference between you and my example. My blonde hair, my clothes, my choice in music... Those don't affect anyone but myself. Your attitude and views though, can and will hurt people.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 06:22 PM

They're a band, but that's not important. The point is, somebody somewhere might think that it's weird, and they might pick on me for it. That doesn't mean I should dye my hair to suit their desires, just to avoid being bullied. Now, I have a feeling you're going to say that what we're doing is trying to change your view to suit us, and that we're bullying you into doing it, but there's a difference between you and my example. My blonde hair, my clothes, my choice in music... Those don't affect anyone but myself. Your attitude and views though, can and will hurt people.

No one would make fun of you for listening to a certain band.

Why do my opinions affect people, yet you think yours don't? That seems prejudice.

Harley Quinn

April 23rd, 2013, 06:24 PM

If a woman walked around the streets basically nude, and she got raped. I would feel bad, I'd think "We'll, she did decide to dress like that. She should've been smarter and dressed more appropriately, especially when walking around the street". It's be sad. But I wouldn't feel to bad.

Or you could realise that no one deserves to be raped regardless of how they are dressed. You're basically just stating all the reasons men think rape is an alright thing. It's not about what someone wears, it's about educating people not to rape in the first place. If you really think that being dressed in any way shape of form is a valid, dignified reason why people/you shouldn't feel bad about rape, I won't take you seriously.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 06:25 PM

Or you could realise that no one deserves to be raped regardless of how they are dressed. You're basically just stating all the reasons men think rape is an alright thing. It's not about what someone wears, it's about educating people not to rape in the first place. If you really think that being dressed in any way shape of form is a valid, dignified reason why people/you shouldn't feel bad about rape, I won't take you seriously.

I didn't say they deserved it, I said that I wouldn't be surprised or shocked.

It's like this, I wouldn't be surprised if someone got in a car accident after having 5 shots of tequila with 4 glasses of wine. I wouldn't feel to bad, because they should've been smarter and not have driven under the influence.

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 06:27 PM

It affects my eyes seeing people like Richard Simmons. It's repulsive and disgusting, especially a guy of that age (who isn't even fit to begin with). How have I dehumanized anyone by saying cross dressing is disgusting? Disney wouldn't hire a cross dresser, news stations wouldn't hire a cross dresser.

At least some companies, unlike you, show common courtesy to their employees. You discriminate based on looks, which is just flat out wrong. Do you know what the fuck you're doing? Do you even fucking CARE? No one takes you seriously in debates like this because you defend the side full of bigots and narrow-minded retards. Also, if it hurts your eyes so much, why don't you just look away? If you see a cross dresser, what stops you from looking away?

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 06:31 PM

At least some companies, unlike you, show common courtesy to their employees. You discriminate based on looks, which is just flat out wrong. Do you know what the fuck you're doing? Do you even fucking CARE? No one takes you seriously in debates like this because you defend the side full of bigots and narrow-minded retards. Also, if it hurts your eyes so much, why don't you just look away? If you see a cross dresser, what stops you from looking away?

I do. But it inconveniences me because I have to turn away vs looking around.

I don't discriminate based on looks, if I see a fat person, I'm not rude. If I see a hillbilly, I'm not rude, if I see a hobo, I'm not rude.

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 06:34 PM

I do. But it inconveniences me because I have to turn away vs looking around.

I don't discriminate based on looks, if I see a fat person, I'm not rude. If I see a hillbilly, I'm not rude, if I see a hobo, I'm not rude.

Yet you can't help but be rude about people who decide to wear panties instead of underwear or a skirt instead of a pair of pants. What's the difference? If it doesn't affect you, why do you take such a high level of offense at it? Face it, you're a two faced bigot.

workingatperfect

April 23rd, 2013, 06:43 PM

No one would make fun of you for listening to a certain band.

Why do my opinions affect people, yet you think yours don't? That seems prejudice.

Oh really? That's funny because I have been called names for music I listen to. A lot of my friends actually get made fun of for being emo based on band shirts they wear.

Because my opinions here are based around people being able to feel comfortable and safe being themselves, while yours are basically that anyone who doesn't fit your definition of normal deserves to be disrespected.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 06:52 PM

Yet you can't help but be rude about people who decide to wear panties instead of underwear or a skirt instead of a pair of pants. What's the difference? If it doesn't affect you, why do you take such a high level of offense at it? Face it, you're a two faced bigot.

I don't know the difference between panties and underwear.

Why would I take offensive to it? Because its disturbing. A few weeks ago I posted a picture of a woman in a bikini and a side mark that said "You know you're not the first, but do you really care? Aston Martin Pre-Owned." And that picture got removed cause someone took offense to it. Why do I take offense to cross dressing? The same reason why someone else got offended by a woman in a bikini advertising for Preowned Aston Martins.

I know many girls/guys would take offense to this:
http://i.imgur.com/PldMySm.jpg

Which is the same reason why I take offense to this:
http://i.imgur.com/vd382JIl.jpg
^that may be normal in your world, hell, your dad might be like that. But never have I met, let alone seen something like that. That may be acceptably normal to you, but it sure as hell is not normal to me.

Oh really? That's funny because I have been called names for music I listen to. A lot of my friends actually get made fun of for being emo based on band shirts they wear.

Because my opinions here are based around people being able to feel comfortable and safe being themselves, while yours are basically that anyone who doesn't fit your definition of normal deserves to be disrespected.

Whats an "emo" band? Manson? Asking Alexandra? Lady GaGa?

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 06:58 PM

I don't know the difference between panties and underwear.

Why would I take offensive to it? Because its disturbing. A few weeks ago I posted a picture of a woman in a bikini and a side mark that said "You know you're not the first, but do you really care? Aston Martin Pre-Owned." And that picture got removed cause someone took offense to it. Why do I take offense to cross dressing? The same reason why someone else got offended by a woman in a bikini advertising for Preowned Aston Martins.

I know many girls/guys would take offense to this:
image (http://i.imgur.com/PldMySm.jpg)

Which is the same reason why I take offense to this:
image (http://i.imgur.com/vd382JIl.jpg)
^that may be normal in your world, hell, your dad might be like that. But never have I met, let alone seen something like that. That may be acceptably normal to you, but it sure as hell is not normal to me.

And this is the core of your problem. Viewing things that are not normal to you with disgust breeds ignorance and hate. Sure, it might not be normal to you, but why should you care so much about it? It doesn't threaten your masculinity to know someone who cross dresses, just like it wouldn't affect your masculinity if you took pleasure in wearing a bra under your shirt. Your problem stems around the fact that you were never exposed to this in a proper fashion and, thus, don't understand it.

StoppingTime

April 23rd, 2013, 06:58 PM

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 07:05 PM

And this is the core of your problem. Viewing things that are not normal to you with disgust breeds ignorance and hate. Sure, it might not be normal to you, but why should you care so much about it? It doesn't threaten your masculinity to know someone who cross dresses, just like it wouldn't affect your masculinity if you took pleasure in wearing a bra under your shirt. Your problem stems around the fact that you were never exposed to this in a proper fashion and, thus, don't understand it.
Never exposed to that thing properly? Parents who ever expose their kids to that obviously hate their kids. People like that freak of a guy are weird freaks, who I literally despise. I do not understand how anyone can find that normal and good. I was watching a show that had dads like that, and I brought it up with my dad saying if you ever thought you wanted to dress like that and get a sex change, I would never talk to you and I would be embarrassed of you (it was the dr oz episode where dads suddenly feel like they are a girl and so they start dressing like that and they wanted to get a sex change). In fact, I find that picture repulsing.

StoppingTime

April 23rd, 2013, 07:08 PM

Virtually naked? Pfft. Not in the slightest, it was appropriate enough to be a national ad. It was no different then being in a bikini.

After checking the content once again (yes, I can do that), her backside was actually exposed, with nothing but a shirt covering her back. Obviously I cannot post the image, so please, drop it and stay and topic

workingatperfect

April 23rd, 2013, 07:16 PM

Never exposed to that thing properly? Parents who ever expose their kids to that obviously hate their kids.

The same could be said about you.

Whats an "emo" band? Manson? Asking Alexandra? Lady GaGa?

How is that relevant? I didn't say anything about an emo band. I said getting called emo for listening to a band. But just for the hell of it, I was wearing a HIM shirt at the time, and knowing my friends, it was probably My Chemical Romance or Black Veil Brides. Point is, you said I would never get made fun of for liking a band, and I have personally heard "Oh, you listen to *band name*? You're so fucking emo. I bet you cut yourself to, don't you?" directed at not only friends, but myself as well.

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 07:17 PM

Never exposed to that thing properly? Parents who ever expose their kids to that obviously hate their kids. People like that freak of a guy are weird freaks, who I literally despise. I do not understand how anyone can find that normal and good. I was watching a show that had dads like that, and I brought it up with my dad saying if you ever thought you wanted to dress like that and get a sex change, I would never talk to you and I would be embarrassed of you (it was the dr oz episode where dads suddenly feel like they are a girl and so they start dressing like that and they wanted to get a sex change). In fact, I find that picture repulsing.

No, if you truly love your children, you'd teach them that things like this exist and that the only thing you can do about it is nothing. Don't try to change them, don't make them feel bad for it; just ignore them.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 07:21 PM

No, if you truly love your children, you'd teach them that things like this exist and that the only thing you can do about it is nothing. Don't try to change them, don't make them feel bad for it; just ignore them.

So how does it make me disgusting for not finding that guy normal? How does it make me narrow minded for finding that disgusting?

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 07:22 PM

So how does it make me disgusting for not finding that guy normal? How does it make me narrow minded for finding that disgusting?

Because you're clearly taking offense at something you can just ignore. It makes you a bigot because you want to do nothing but highlight ONE thing about an entire person. A person is more than the clothes they wear or the gender they identify as; and you clearly can't grasp this concept.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 07:24 PM

Because you're clearly taking offense at something you can just ignore. It makes you a bigot because you want to do nothing but highlight ONE thing about an entire person. A person is more than the clothes they wear or the gender they identify as; and you clearly can't grasp this concept.

I don't care what type of clothes someone wears, as long as its not cross dressing like that guy

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 07:25 PM

I don't care what type of clothes someone wears, as long as its not cross dressing like that guy

Yet early in the thread, you said you find them disgusting and think people should dress their gender. What the fuck man, stop flip flopping.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 07:27 PM

Yet early in the thread, you said you find them disgusting and think people should dress their gender. What the fuck man, stop flip flopping.

I'm not. I don't care if you wear Wal Mart brand clothes, or Gucci brand. I don't care. Just don't dress like that guy or cross dress. There's a difference between the two, you make it sound like I care about the brand someone wears, when I don't. I just don't want anyone I know cross dressing.

So to sum it up. I don't care if you wear Wal Mart brand, or any brand. But I do care if you cross dress, because its revolting.

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 07:29 PM

I'm not. I don't care if you wear Wal Mart brand clothes, or Gucci brand. I don't care. Just don't dress like that guy or cross dress. There's a difference from the two, you make it sound like I care about the brand someone wears, when I don't. I just don't want anyone I know cross dressing.

I'd hate to be acquaintances with you, then. Clearly you're of an authoritarian mindset that EVERYONE has to do what YOU set. Be honest, this is what you're really doing. If you don't like cross dressers, I can only imagine how you feel about furries who dress up to go to conventions. What's the problem? Are you scared of people who do things differently?

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 07:34 PM

I'd hate to be acquaintances with you, then. Clearly you're of an authoritarian mindset that EVERYONE has to do what YOU set. Be honest, this is what you're really doing. If you don't like cross dressers, I can only imagine how you feel about furries who dress up to go to conventions. What's the problem? Are you scared of people who do things differently?

I don't know what a furry is. I've already told you, I find it revolting and offensive. I'm friends with many different people, like metalheads, preps, theatre people, etc. I'm alright with different, I'm different. I'm just not alright with people like that guy and a few other stuff.

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 07:36 PM

I don't know what a furry is. I've already told you, I find it revolting and offensive. I'm friends with many different people, like metalheads, preps, theatre people, etc. I'm alright with different, I'm different. I'm just not alright with people like that guy and a few other stuff.

But WHY?

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 07:39 PM

But WHY?

I find it revolting cause it's gross seeing some middle aged guy dressing like a woman and acting like one, and it's offensive because I BELIEVE it's like slapping God in the face, that's not my defense, thats just why I believe it's offensive.

naglfari

April 23rd, 2013, 07:43 PM

You need to get over it because its none of your business. And God is Santa for adults

Sugaree

April 23rd, 2013, 07:47 PM

I find it revolting cause it's gross seeing some middle aged guy dressing like a woman and acting like one, and it's offensive because I BELIEVE it's like slapping God in the face, that's not my defense, thats just why I believe it's offensive.

Maybe once you get older, you'll realize how foolish this sounds. But I'm done with this debate.

Jess

April 23rd, 2013, 07:47 PM

I find it revolting cause it's gross seeing some middle aged guy dressing like a woman and acting like one, and it's offensive because I BELIEVE it's like slapping God in the face, that's not my defense, thats just why I believe it's offensive.

If women can dress "like men" (aka not wear dresses but wear suits and pants), why can't it be vice versa? And not everyone believes in your god.

You need to get over it because its none of your business. And God is Santa for adults
Exactly this :yes:

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 07:51 PM

If women can dress "like men" (aka not wear dresses but wear suits and pants), why can't it be vice versa? And not everyone believes in your god.

Exactly this :yes:

Ok.I BELIEVE it's like slapping God in the face, that's not my defense, thats just why I believe it's offensive.

Wearing pants, as I've already said, isn't masculine, it's unisex.

naglfari

April 23rd, 2013, 07:53 PM

Besides how would God be on your side Cicero, have you seen what the pope wears?

Pure Innocent Nun

April 23rd, 2013, 10:06 PM

that's pretty rude.

So is all of your "opinions" and about everything you type.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 10:43 PM

Besides how would God be on your side Cicero, have you seen what the pope wears?
What are you talking about? I never said he was or wasn't. http://i.imgur.com/f1WusAA.png
That's what he wears, what about it?
So is all of your "opinions" and about everything you type.

What?

Horizon

April 23rd, 2013, 11:18 PM

I claim to be a non practicing catholic.

image (http://i.imgur.com/WUDvObY.png)

Sorry I think ^ that is a little weird, freakish, and disgusting, sorry I don't find that to be normal. Cause every guy I know dresses like that weirdo :rolleyes: You guys aren't trying to shove me into what you guys think is right? Cause that's what you're all doing.

This is an honest question
How can you be a catholic, if you're 'non practicing' ?

I am too lazy pants to quote you above, but I will say, you as a person I won't say is disgusting, just your very close minded views on life are.

The last thing I will say is, stop worrying about what other people do in their life, and stop telling them they are wrong. It's not cool to do that, and you don't like it when people do it to you.

Cicero

April 23rd, 2013, 11:21 PM

This is an honest question
How can you be a catholic, if you're 'non practicing' ?

I am too lazy pants to quote you above, but I will say, you as a person I won't say is disgusting, just your very close minded views on life are.

The last thing I will say is, stop worrying about what other people do in their life, and stop telling them they are wrong. It's not cool to do that, and you don't like it when people do it to you.

You believe in most of the catholic values, but you don't go to church or anything like that. That's a non practicing catholic.

naglfari

April 23rd, 2013, 11:55 PM

it was a joke, the pope wears some pretty... fabulous looking stuff

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 01:03 AM

it was a joke, the pope wears some pretty... fabulous looking stuff

How? He wears a robe and a cross with a hat. It's pretty boring clothing, nothing special.

Rayquaza

April 24th, 2013, 01:49 AM

You believe in most of the catholic values, but you don't go to church or anything like that. That's a non practicing catholic.

You have an answer for everything, don't you?

You're clearly one of the most contradictory, prejudiced people I've ever met. Seriously, I have read the this thread numerous times and you flip flop and change your argument all the time. A good way of debating is maybe, uh, sticking to your guns?

The pope wears something pretty boring, right. But it's up to society what they consider masculine and feminine. I have pretty much already said this and I know you're going to just ignore all these because you have selective reading and choose to read what you want to read and believe is true.

Imagine if we lived in a world where guys wore girl dresses and vice-versa. Then, you would be saying that it's abnormal for the other way round. You're saying someone is abnormal for the way they choose to dress but they aren't. Abnormality has three definitions. Which one does it fit in? Is it Deviation from Social Norms? Well, not really as cross dressing and wearing makeup isn't viewed as abnomal in our society, apart from bigoted people like you, but you're an insignificant, useless minority.
There's Failure to Function Adequately, another definition of Abnormality, where once again, someone who dresses differently can function perfectly in everyday life. So they can't fit into that either.
And lastly, there's Deviation from Ideal Mental Health. I can probably anticipate you saying that them choosing to wear feminine clothes is not mentally "well" but actually it is, so they don't fit into that either.

Do you see? People that choose to dress how they want are not abnormal and not freaks. And stop being so god-damn facetious in your arguments. You're not being taken seriously and you won't ever be if you're going to write "lol" and post pictures of smileys. If you're getting offended by what people say, maybe you should grow the hell up and realize it's you with the problem, not society.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 06:36 AM

Abnormality has three definitions. Which one does it fit in? Is it Deviation from Social Norms? Well, not really as cross dressing and wearing makeup isn't viewed as abnomal in our society, apart from bigoted people like you, but you're an insignificant, useless minority.

That's actually quite funny. Are you suggesting that to the majority of people a man cross-dressing and wearing makeup would be viewed as normal?

Hunter_Steel

April 24th, 2013, 06:55 AM

Difference between a robe and a skirt:

One looks good (Robes have been worn before pants was invented. I've worn one. Its quite cool, gives freedom of movement. lol)

Other one is gay and meant for girls only.

Ryhanna

April 24th, 2013, 07:46 AM

Jesus, this thread is mess of delusion...

Who the fuck decides what defines masculinity and femininity? Apart from the anatomy, nothing is distinctively male or female. Why should we be forced to look and act a certain way just because we were born with a certain reproductive organ? That's ridiculous. If you like wearing a dress, you like wearing a dress. If you like growing out your leg hair, you like it.

This is exactly why I love androgynous artists like Marilyn Manson and Lady Gaga, who challenge societies perceptions of gender, and blur the lines between male and female. They don't give a flying fuck who thinks their weird, they just do whatever they like and pay dust to anyone who doesn't like it. We should all be like that. Individuality rocks.

Rayquaza

April 24th, 2013, 10:37 AM

That's actually quite funny. Are you suggesting that to the majority of people a man cross-dressing and wearing makeup would be viewed as normal?

http://www.visitwesthollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Priscilla-Queen-of-the-Desert.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S5GExkC4kkI/Tl4kWSxb6_I/AAAAAAAAAnI/-ftWlm4wMFY/s1600/lady-gaga-you-and-i-single-cover-01.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01012/pete-burns_1012468c.jpg

http://www.happyfame.com/wp-content/plugins/WPRobot3/images/a0bd1__justinbieberwearingmakeupmascara.jpg

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2012/1009/grant_getty_pink153368145_640.jpg&w=640&h=360

http://photos.posh24.com/p/1687501/l/hot_news/john_travoltas_secret_crossdressing_life.jpg

http://cdn.pigeonsandplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/David-Bowie-Ziggy-Stardust.jpg

Yes.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 10:54 AM

Yes.

You are mad - big difference between "celebrities" and what real people do.

Try going for a job interview with a male name and turning up in a dress and makeup - what do you think will happen?

workingatperfect

April 24th, 2013, 11:08 AM

naglfari

April 24th, 2013, 11:08 AM

How? He wears a robe and a cross with a hat. It's pretty boring clothing, nothing special.

fabulous hats

workingatperfect

April 24th, 2013, 11:17 AM

Ok.

Wearing pants, as I've already said, isn't masculine, it's unisex.

But it wasn't always. People used to view woman wearing pants exactly how you view women wearing skirts. It was disrespectful, masculine and disgusting. But that changed.

It's terrible that when girls fight their gender roles, they're called strong and are praised, but when a man does it, he's weak and weird and is shunned for it. That is not fair. Why is it ok for a woman to do things that were once view manly, but guys can't do things that are considered womanly.

Rayquaza

April 24th, 2013, 11:22 AM

Why is Pink there? She's a woman, wearing makeup, dressed like a woman...

I was using her to demonstrate a point. The hair and the the leather jackets tend to be stereotyped to men.

You are mad - big difference between "celebrities" and what real people do.

Try going for a job interview with a male name and turning up in a dress and makeup - what do you think will happen?

Well I'm not going to because it's not something I choose to do. It's what other people do, and if it makes them feel happy so be it. However, A job interview? For the sake of this debate, I can easily go into a job interview at a production company and show how comfortable I would be if I were wearing a dress. It would show that I'm not too insecure with my own masculinity and that I would be ok to be like this. What proof has there been in the last couple of years that men wearing makeup or cross-dressing isn't ok?

You're being so narrow minded. All you're caring about is men wearing 'female clothes'. What about females wearing "male" clothing? Are women bound to wearing skirts and tights because it's what is expected, like you see in films? No. Women choose to get tattoos too, which is also seen to be another male art addition to the body.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 11:31 AM

Well I'm not going to because it's not something I choose to do. It's what other people do, and if it makes them feel happy so be it. However, A job interview? For the sake of this debate, I can easily go into a job interview at a production company and show how comfortable I would be if I were wearing a dress.

what kind of production company - as in what do they produce?

Rayquaza

April 24th, 2013, 11:36 AM

what kind of production company - as in what do they produce?

a production company... as in productions.

musical productions.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 11:43 AM

a production company... as in productions.

musical productions.

Ok, well if you do musical productions for a living good luck to you.

You may have noticed most people in the world do "normal" type jobs where the standards of dress are very different

Rayquaza

April 24th, 2013, 11:54 AM

Ok, well if you do musical productions for a living good luck to you.

You may have noticed most people in the world do "normal" type jobs where the standards of dress are very different

Oh, I'm sorry that actors in a theatrical company isn't a "normal" enough job for you.

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 12:34 PM

image (http://www.visitwesthollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Priscilla-Queen-of-the-Desert.jpg)

image (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S5GExkC4kkI/Tl4kWSxb6_I/AAAAAAAAAnI/-ftWlm4wMFY/s1600/lady-gaga-you-and-i-single-cover-01.jpg)

image (http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01012/pete-burns_1012468c.jpg)

image (http://www.happyfame.com/wp-content/plugins/WPRobot3/images/a0bd1__justinbieberwearingmakeupmascara.jpg)

image (http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2012/1009/grant_getty_pink153368145_640.jpg&w=640&h=360)

image (http://photos.posh24.com/p/1687501/l/hot_news/john_travoltas_secret_crossdressing_life.jpg)

image (http://cdn.pigeonsandplanes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/David-Bowie-Ziggy-Stardust.jpg)

Yes.
Guy actors have to wear makeup when performing and on tv because of the light, they're not wearing makeup to look feminine. In fact, you can barey tell they wear makeup. Lady gaga did that as a skit for MTV, she doesn't walk around like that, but she isn't a good example of whats normal. She represents all that's weird and freaky.

fabulous hats

No. It's kinda like what Jews wear.

But it wasn't always. People used to view woman wearing pants exactly how you view women wearing skirts. It was disrespectful, masculine and disgusting. But that changed.

It's terrible that when girls fight their gender roles, they're called strong and are praised, but when a man does it, he's weak and weird and is shunned for it. That is not fair. Why is it ok for a woman to do things that were once view manly, but guys can't do things that are considered womanly.
Masculine dykes aren't accepted well in society. Just how cross dressing feminine guys aren't accepted well in society. You make it sound like the girl counterpart has it easy when in reality they don't, they just have it a tad easier than cross dressing feminine guys. At my school, the masculine dykes are really made fun of, they're looked down upon and are viewed as freaks. I could only imagine what would happen if a guy cross dressed, he would probably get his ass kicked by so many guys.

Metrosexual guys and tomboy girls are accepted well in society. Because they aren't extreme, and because they're not weird.

naglfari

April 24th, 2013, 12:56 PM

dont be obtuse on purpose its a very annoying trait

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 12:57 PM

dont be obtuse on purpose its a very annoying trait

What the fuck are you talking about? You're making no sense and what YOU'RE doing is very annoying

naglfari

April 24th, 2013, 12:59 PM

like the little cap is the only hat a pope ever wears lol

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 01:00 PM

Oh, I'm sorry that actors in a theatrical company isn't a "normal" enough job for you.

You may know that line of work has different dress standards to "normal" factory/office type work

If you want to be an actor then dressing up would be a good thing - if you want a "normal" job it might not be very smart but do try it and tell us how you do :)

Rayquaza

April 24th, 2013, 01:11 PM

Guy actors have to wear makeup when performing and on tv because of the light, they're not wearing makeup to look feminine. In fact, you can barey tell they wear makeup. Lady gaga did that as a skit for MTV, she doesn't walk around like that, but she isn't a good example of whats normal. She represents all that's weird and freaky.

No. It's kinda like what Jews wear.

Masculine dykes aren't accepted well in society. Just how cross dressing feminine guys aren't accepted well in society. You make it sound like the girl counterpart has it easy when in reality they don't, they just have it a tad easier than cross dressing feminine guys. At my school, the masculine dykes are really made fun of, they're looked down upon and are viewed as freaks. I could only imagine what would happen if a guy cross dressed, he would probably get his ass kicked by so many guys.

Metrosexual guys and tomboy girls are accepted well in society. Because they aren't extreme, and because they're not weird.

Ok, firstly do you want to watch your god damn language there, referring to someone as a "dyke" is derogatory and degrading, and basically just shows how your opinion on this matter is useless and irrelevant.

And I wasn't talking about metrosexuals, that's another topic. You were saying how guys that wear makeups are freaks, and you are, once again, contradicting what you say. I'm sure the logic in your brain suffers from really bad memory loss because you seem to forget what you say and what you read. Who actually cares about your school? Your school is a minuscule amount of people compared to the world, and if you and your community think like that, there's no wonder why your logic is so fucked up, but to be honest I think you're being exactly what the poster said above me, you're being obtuse on purpose. It's like you were born with no way of learning.

And they don't have to wear makeup. What affect does light have on make up? Your argument is in a mess, you have absolutely no idea where you're coming from and where you're going to. That guy is saying exactly how it is. Don't go off on one at him just because you are the one making yourself look stupid.

What Jews Wear?
Ok, so now we're coming off what genders wear and now you're stereotyping religions. Awesome. So I'm a Hindu. What do I wear?

I wear clothes that are sold on high street stores in this country. So by your logic you're already incorrect.

Lady Gaga didn't do that as a skit. Jo Calderone is her male counterpart, which was protrayed in the You and I music video. So, want to get your fact straight?

You say you're a "non-practicing catholic" (whatever stupidness non practicing even means), under your logic, that means you just wear white clothes like the pope.

You may know that line of work has different dress standards to "normal" factory/office type work

If you want to be an actor then dressing up would be a good thing - if you want a "normal" job it might not be very smart but do try it and tell us how you do :)

There is no such thing as normal, so try to get out of your mindset what you see as normal is actually known as "conformity." And these remarks aren't at me. I don't want to be an actor, so stop being so flippant.

workingatperfect

April 24th, 2013, 01:15 PM

What the fuck are you talking about? You're making no sense and what YOU'RE doing is very annoying
I believe he's accusing you of being narrow-minded and difficult for the sake of being annoying.

Masculine dykes aren't accepted well in society. Just how cross dressing feminine guys aren't accepted well in society. You make it sound like the girl counterpart has it easy when in reality they don't, they just have it a tad easier than cross dressing feminine guys. At my school, the masculine dykes are really made fun of, they're looked down upon and are viewed as freaks. I could only imagine what would happen if a guy cross dressed, he would probably get his ass kicked by so many guys.

Metrosexual guys and tomboy girls are accepted well in society. Because they aren't extreme, and because they're not weird.

Well your school sucks then. My old school, and many of the ones in my area are really accepting of more masculine girls. Also, I never mentioned lesbians. It's ignorant to assume that all tomboys are "dykes." But I was speaking more of feminism. The majority of people view feminism as a great revolution against oppressive gender roles. But if there was a similar activism group for men, the majority would find it repulsive.

Anyway, keeping to point of this thread. I do believe that one day mindsets like his^ will eventually be a very small minority. It will probably take a long time. It probably won't be in our lifetime. But maybe our kids' or grandkids'. But I doubt that we will all be pansexual. While yes, the genders may be eliminated or seriously blurred, there's still going to be differences, most importantly, well, genitals, and sexual attraction and compatibility plays a big part in who we find attractive.

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 01:37 PM

Ok, firstly do you want to watch your god damn language there, referring to someone as a "dyke" is derogatory and degrading, and basically just shows how your opinion on this matter is useless and irrelevant.

And I wasn't talking about metrosexuals, that's another topic. You were saying how guys that wear makeups are freaks, and you are, once again, contradicting what you say. I'm sure the logic in your brain suffers from really bad memory loss because you seem to forget what you say and what you read. Who actually cares about your school? Your school is a minuscule amount of people compared to the world, and if you and your community think like that, there's no wonder why your logic is so fucked up, but to be honest I think you're being exactly what the poster said above me, you're being obtuse on purpose. It's like you were born with no way of learning.

And they don't have to wear makeup. What affect does light have on make up? Your argument is in a mess, you have absolutely no idea where you're coming from and where you're going to. That guy is saying exactly how it is. Don't go off on one at him just because you are the one making yourself look stupid.

What Jews Wear?
Ok, so now we're coming off what genders wear and now you're stereotyping religions. Awesome. So I'm a Hindu. What do I wear?

I wear clothes that are sold on high street stores in this country. So by your logic you're already incorrect.

Lady Gaga didn't do that as a skit. Jo Calderone is her male counterpart, which was protrayed in the You and I music video. So, want to get your fact straight?

You say you're a "non-practicing catholic" (whatever stupidness non practicing even means), under your logic, that means you just wear white clothes like the pope.

There is no such thing as normal, so try to get out of your mindset what you see as normal is actually known as "conformity." And these remarks aren't at me. I don't want to be an actor, so stop being so flippant.
I wasn't talking to you about the Jew thing, I was talking to that other guy who said something about the popes hat and I said its like what Jews wear. You say there is no such thing as normal, to make yourself feel better. There is such a thing as normal, and you may say there is no such thing as normal because you may not be normal close to normal. How am I being obtuse? From what I know, obtuse means a shape. Sorry, I always thought dyke meant a girl cross dresser. I've only heard that term whenever it came to girl cross dressers. . Why do guy actors wear makeup? To look good? (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090322225141AAenYA9)
I believe he's accusing you of being narrow-minded and difficult for the sake of being annoying.

Well your school sucks then. My old school, and many of the ones in my area are really accepting of more masculine girls. Also, I never mentioned lesbians. It's ignorant to assume that all tomboys are "dykes." But I was speaking more of feminism. The majority of people view feminism as a great revolution against oppressive gender roles. But if there was a similar activism group for men, the majority would find it repulsive.

Anyway, keeping to point of this thread. I do believe that one day mindsets like his^ will eventually be a very small minority. It will probably take a long time. It probably won't be in our lifetime. But maybe our kids' or grandkids'. But I doubt that we will all be pansexual. While yes, the genders may be eliminated or seriously blurred, there's still going to be differences, most importantly, well, genitals, and sexual attraction and compatibility plays a big part in who we find attractive.
I'm not the only one who thinks its gross, many, many others find cross dressing gross and weird, in fact, before they had lgbt, it was lgb, they didn't want to add the t for trans part until the others weren't so discriminated against. Please look at the white part in my other quote to see why I said dyke, it was a misunderstanding.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 02:16 PM

There is no such thing as normal, so try to get out of your mindset what you see as normal is actually known as "conformity." And these remarks aren't at me. I don't want to be an actor, so stop being so flippant.

Ok you did say earlier you were going for interviews with musical production companies.

What are you looking to do that would accept you wearing a dress and makeup?

Rayquaza

April 24th, 2013, 02:44 PM

Ok you did say earlier you were going for interviews with musical production companies.

What are you looking to do that would accept you wearing a dress and makeup?

Oh, I'm sorry you skimmed over what I said and didn't read it fully.

I said, "for the sake of this debate". It's not something I'm actually doing. I was using it to illustrate an argument put forward.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 03:58 PM

Oh, I'm sorry you skimmed over what I said and didn't read it fully.

I said, "for the sake of this debate". It's not something I'm actually doing. I was using it to illustrate an argument put forward.

You're a very strange guy. If you really were an actor who wanted to work in musical production then you'd have had a fair point - obviously in the theatrical world guys dressing as girls is perfectly fine.

As it is you're talking nonsense. The majority of people do not think it's normal for a guy to wear dresses/make up, you're going to have a very difficult life until you realise that.

Pure Innocent Nun

April 24th, 2013, 04:05 PM

You're a very strange guy. If you really were an actor who wanted to work in musical production then you'd have had a fair point - obviously in the theatrical world guys dressing as girls is perfectly fine.

As it is you're talking nonsense. The majority of people do not think it's normal for a guy to wear dresses/make up, you're going to have a very difficult life until you realise that.

Actually a lot of people do, you're just ignorant.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 04:07 PM

Actually a lot of people do, you're just ignorant.

A lot of people do what?

Ace of Spades

April 24th, 2013, 04:10 PM

Pure Innocent Nun

April 24th, 2013, 04:10 PM

A lot of people do what?

A lot of people think it's normal for a guy to wear a dress and makeup.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 04:15 PM

A lot of people think it's normal for a guy to wear a dress and makeup.

Glad to say I've never met any outside of internet fantasy world

If you want to do it good luck to you

Pure Innocent Nun

April 24th, 2013, 04:16 PM

Glad to say I've never met any outside of internet fantasy world

If you want to do it good luck to you

What? People in "real life" also believe that it's normal.

I didn't say I wanted to wear a dress/make up.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 04:20 PM

What? People in "real life" also believe that it's normal.

I didn't say I wanted to wear a dress/make up.

You probably do want to wear a dress/makeup but you're afraid to because people might not think you're "normal" - which proves my point

Ace of Spades

April 24th, 2013, 04:24 PM

You probably do want to wear a dress/makeup but you're afraid to because people might not think you're "normal" - which proves my point

Why are you being so hostile and accusatory? It's being rather counter-productive.

Pure Innocent Nun

April 24th, 2013, 04:25 PM

You probably do want to wear a dress/makeup but you're afraid to because people might not think you're "normal" - which proves my point

Are you stupid? No, I don't want to wear dress/make up because I'm not into wearing make up because it clogs your pores and I think a dress would look frankly dumb on me. Then again most clothes look dumb on me.

Rayquaza

April 24th, 2013, 04:25 PM

You probably do want to wear a dress/makeup but you're afraid to because people might not think you're "normal" - which proves my point

Why do you assume that everyone that argues the truth, that people are accepting of cross dressers, ARE cross dressers?

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 04:34 PM

Why are you being so hostile and accusatory? It's being rather counter-productive.

It was a joke - thought it was obvious.

I do think anyone who imagines a guy wearing a dress is going to be accepted as "normal" is seriously deluded - but good luck to them.

Pure Innocent Nun

April 24th, 2013, 04:35 PM

It was a joke - thought it was obvious.

I do think anyone who imagines a guy wearing a dress is going to be accepted as "normal" is seriously deluded - but good luck to them.

No, they just clearly have a different view on normal then you do.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 04:38 PM

No, they just clearly have a different view on normal then you do.

Obviously.

Do you personally know any guy who wears dresses/makeup and is accepted as perfectly normal?

Pure Innocent Nun

April 24th, 2013, 04:39 PM

Obviously.

Do you personally know any guy who wears dresses/makeup and is accepted as perfectly normal?

Yes, he is treated just like any human being, by most at least.

Ace of Spades

April 24th, 2013, 04:42 PM

Obviously.

Do you personally know any guy who wears dresses/makeup and is accepted as perfectly normal?

Yes. Yes I do.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 04:44 PM

Yes, he is treated just like any human being, by most at least.

But does the dress look good on him :)

Seriously good luck to him, I just don't think society is ready for men dressed as women yet.

Pure Innocent Nun

April 24th, 2013, 04:46 PM

But does the dress look good on him :)

Seriously good luck to him, I just don't think society is ready for men dressed as women yet.

In my opinion he looks pretty snazzy.

Ace of Spades

April 24th, 2013, 04:50 PM

Seriously good luck to him, I just don't think society is ready for men dressed as women yet.

Screw society. Acceptance has to start some time.

Rayquaza

April 24th, 2013, 04:51 PM

But does the dress look good on him :)

Seriously good luck to him, I just don't think society is ready for men dressed as women yet.

Society is ready, it's just the narrow minded individuals such as yourself that are not.

BebeFleur.

April 24th, 2013, 05:01 PM

I wish to quote and make reference to so many things here, but alas, I do not have that much time. ;)

All I have to say is this:
-People can make their own decisions
-Who cares what they wear? It isn't harming you. I mean think about it. Less than a century ago anything more revealing than a high neck, long sleeved, long skirted dress on a woman was considered a definite no by society standards. Now women wear things so short and so low almost nothing is hidden. And this stuff many find attractive. Society is changing. Oh, and remember when men used to wear makeup and wear dresses in plays? That was normal.
-If you are going to go on about what God says is right, then how about this: God made it so that men want to wear skirts. God made it so times changed. If you are going to go on about what God wants, you have to think both ways. And remember, not everyone believes the same things.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 05:19 PM

Society is ready, it's just the narrow minded individuals such as yourself that are not.

Yea right. So do you think a guy going for a job interview wearing a dress when every other applicant is wearing a suit is going to have a fair chance of getting the job?

Rayquaza

April 24th, 2013, 05:26 PM

Yea right. So do you think a guy going for a job interview wearing a dress when every other applicant is wearing a suit is going to have a fair chance of getting the job?

See, once again you're being stereotypical and narrow minded, just get off this "job" thing you keep going on and on about.

No one actually vies a shit what other people wear. It does not affect them and it never will. If people judge at first appearances only then they're pathetic and idiotic.

workingatperfect

April 24th, 2013, 05:28 PM

What people need to realize is that normal does not exist. Your definition of normal does not mean shit. It's like religion; you can live by your religion and that's fine. You can follow it's guidelines and all that. But as soon as you try to push that on other people, you've crossed a line, because it's YOUR religion, not theirs. Now substitute "religion" with "definition of normal." Why should I live by what you think is normal?

For example, Cicero. You said you don't pity victims of bullying who could easily conform to their bully's idea of normal. What if I thought that wearing short shorts was normal for guys and anything else was weird as hell. So, I and a ton of our classmates decided to pick on you for it. Should you conform to our ideas? If you say yes, I feel very sorry for you because that is a poor way to live your life. I can't imagine not dressing the way that made me happy because of other people. People should dress to please themselves and no one else. If they have the courage to do that despite all the hate they receive, they are a billion times stronger than the ones dishing out the hate.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 05:34 PM

No one actually vies a shit what other people wear.

Yea right. Why do you think businessmen/politicians wear suits and ties?

Ryhanna

April 24th, 2013, 06:29 PM

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 07:57 PM

Yea right. Why do you think businessmen/politicians wear suits and ties?

I agree completely, so obviously people care what others dress like, restaurants too. Some restaurants enforce a certain type of dress style.

StoppingTime

April 24th, 2013, 08:02 PM

I agree completely, so obviously people care what others dress like, restaurants too. Some restaurants enforce a certain type of dress style.

They wear suits because they are insructed to look professional. People don't want to be served at a restaurant or see their representatives in beach shorts and a white tee shirt. However, that's completely irrelevant from the point you've been trying to make - which is that cross dressing is "absolutely disgusting' and a "slap in the face" to god

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 08:07 PM

They wear suits because they are insructed to look professional. People don't want to be served at a restaurant or see their representatives in beach shorts and a white tee shirt. However, that's completely irrelevant from the point you've been trying to make - which is that cross dressing is "absolutely disgusting' and a "slap in the face" to god

Businessmen aren't instructed to do anything, most likely, they work for themselves. Alright, thanks for the statement.

But that's not what I was talking about. Rayauezza said people don't care what you wear, then jay said his comment and I agreed with his comment while adding my own

StoppingTime

April 24th, 2013, 08:10 PM

Businessmen aren't instructed to do anything, most likely, they work for themselves. Alright, thanks for the statement.

But that's not what I was talking about. Rayauezza said people don't care what you wear, then jay said his comment and I agreed with his comment.

So... let's say you work for a small business (i.e. a "businessman"). Do you think their boss is really going to allow them to come in wearing shorts? Do you think waiters choose to wear what they do? That argument is completely flawed.

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 08:13 PM

So... let's say you work for a small business (i.e. a "businessman"). Do you think their boss is really going to allow them to come in wearing shorts? Do you think waiters choose to wear what they do? That argument is completely flawed.

A waiter isn't a businessman. Just because you work for a small business doesnt mean youre a businessman. You're making no sense

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 08:13 PM

Why should I live by what you think is normal?

You shouldn't - I don't think anyone is going to care what you do or how you live your life.

Point was if you want to succeed in life you probably need to adhere to what other people think is "normal" - for a guy that means not wearing dresses for a girl it means being somewhat feminine.

Very naive of anyone to think they can just do what they like and not be judged.

StoppingTime

April 24th, 2013, 08:14 PM

A waiter isn't a businessman. You're making no sense

They're separate examples, and I get the feeling you know that.

xXl0sth0peXx

April 24th, 2013, 08:18 PM

I love wearing men's sweatshirts though.. guess that makes me a crossdresser huh.. I'm such a bad person..

Why/how does it harm you if a guy decides to wear something feminine or vice versa?

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 08:20 PM

You shouldn't - I don't think anyone is going to care what you do or how you live your life.

Point was if you want to succeed in life you probably need to adhere to what other people think is "normal" - for a guy that means not wearing dresses for a girl it means being somewhat feminine.

Very naive of anyone to think they can just do what they like and not be judged.

I agree completely. Additionally, if you choose to cross dress, you won't be respected.

I love wearing men's sweatshirts though.. guess that makes me a crossdresser huh.. I'm such a bad person..

Why/how does it harm you if a guy decides to wear something feminine or vice versa?
I think you know what we mean, if you're a girl and decide to cut your hair like a guy and wear everything like a guy and act like a guy, people in the business world just won't respect you as much, first impressions are everything, and the way someone looks is just as important as personality, especially when it comes to first impressions.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 08:21 PM

StoppingTime

April 24th, 2013, 08:23 PM

What about the boss - who tells him what to wear?

Well I guess it depends what you mean by "boss." If you're the overall owner of a cooperation, LLC, whatever honestly, you wear whatever you'd like, I suppose. But likely, you'll find they'll dress professionally as they generally want their employees to do the same.

I think you know what we mean, if you're a girl and decide to cut your hair like a guy and wear everything like a guy and act like a guy, people in the business world just won't respect you as much, first impressions are everything, and the way someone looks is just as important as personality, especially when it comes to first impressions.

You talk as if you're some business professional here. (oh by the way inb4 irl example about how you're surrounded by professional millionaires etc). Not everyone is like you

xXl0sth0peXx

April 24th, 2013, 08:28 PM

I agree completely. Additionally, if you choose to cross dress, you won't be respected.

That's really weird, because I think I'd respect a cross dresser. In fact, I have. By that logic, if you're lgbtq, you aren't respected either because you're not 'the social norm'.

Jay1

April 24th, 2013, 08:28 PM

Well I guess it depends what you mean by "boss." If you're the overall owner of a cooperation, LLC, whatever honestly, you wear whatever you'd like

I hope you realise that the owner of a company does not dress how he likes - he dresses to be taken seriously by clients, employees etc.

You might be the smartest guy in the room but if you're wearing a dress nobody's going to listen to you. Surely you can see that....

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 08:28 PM

Well I guess it depends what you mean by "boss." If you're the overall owner of a cooperation, LLC, whatever honestly, you wear whatever you'd like, I suppose. But likely, you'll find they'll dress professionally as they generally want their employees to do the same.

You talk as if you're some business professional here. (oh by the way inb4 irl example about how you're surrounded by professional millionaires etc). Not everyone is like you

That's what my dad says. What are you talking about millionaires for, I don't get this?

If the boss did cross dress, not only would that give the employees a good laugh, but no one would take him seriously and he would be a joke. Additionally, no one would respect him.

StoppingTime

April 24th, 2013, 08:31 PM

That's what my dad says. What are you talking about millionaires for, I don't get this?

I was generalizing. Get over it; it was an example. It's best not to linger on little things like that in debates :rolleyes:

If the boss did cross dress, not only would that give the employees a good laugh, but no one would take him seriously and he would be a joke. Additionally, no one would respect him.

No, you, and people who (unfortunately) share your opinions would think that - not everyone. And the point I was making is that they dress professionally to avoid people commenting and drawing attention to what they wear, and simply so they look professional.

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 08:31 PM

That's really weird, because I think I'd respect a cross dresser. In fact, I have. By that logic, if you're lgbtq, you aren't respected either because you're not 'the social norm'.

You won't be respected if you're a businessman. You would be a joke to all your employees, you'd be the punch line to many jokes.

I was generalizing. Get over it; it was an example. It's best not to linger on little things like that in debates :rolleyes:

No, you, and people who (unfortunately) share your opinions would think that - not everyone. And the point I was making is that they dress professionally to avoid people commenting and drawing attention to what they wear, and simply so they look professional.
Exactly, they'd be a joke and employees wouldn't respect him, he'd want to look professional and be respected. Not a joke, like most cross dressing businessmen would be.

StoppingTime

April 24th, 2013, 08:35 PM

Exactly, they'd be a joke and employees wouldn't respect him, he'd want to look professional and be respected. Not a joke, like most cross dressing businessmen would be.

Yes - to you and anyone else with your opinions. And yes, if you want me to say cross dressing can be seen as unprofessional, sure,I guess it could be.

Lol I'm done with this excuse of a debate. have fun

Cicero

April 24th, 2013, 08:37 PM

Yes - to you and anyone else with your opinions. And yes, if you want me to say cross dressing can be seen as unprofessional, sure,I guess it could be.

Lol I'm done with this excuse of a debate. have fun

Which is most businessmen (ie Donald Trump). Most business men are conservative republicans, so good luck in the real world :rolleyes:

Rayquaza

April 25th, 2013, 01:49 AM

I hope you realise that the owner of a company does not dress how he likes - he dresses to be taken seriously by clients, employees etc.

You might be the smartest guy in the room but if you're wearing a dress nobody's going to listen to you. Surely you can see that....

What are you? Cicero v2.0?

Regarding this waiter issue (which you still can't seem to get out of the mindset of just jobs), of course they don't cross-dress. It's called uniform, it's what they HAVE to wear. And those aren't the only jobs in the world. Some jobs don't even need interviews. You just think a job is like one in an office, but there are many other jobs out there. People can be self employed.

Which is most businessmen (ie Donald Trump). Most business men are conservative republicans, so good luck in the real world :rolleyes:

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Lol, I think you just want to get the last word in, no matter how idiotic it makes you look. I think it's rich that someone like you, someone who is too shy in the real world and lacks friends like you say in your threads, as well as a relationship is telling other people "good luck in the real world", considering it's mainly your beliefs that are affecting your social life.

Cross dressing =/= Conservative Republicans.
Businessman =/= Conservative Republicans.

You can't generalise one thing with another. Not everyone is like you. In fact, it's only a very small minority; the same people that can't deal with change.

Ryhanna

April 25th, 2013, 02:26 AM

What on Earth does this have to do with business people? Horrible example. Of course businessmen aren't going to show up to work in dresses, they have to dress professionally.

Business wear and casual clothing are completely separate things.

xmojox

April 25th, 2013, 02:30 PM

I don't think gender is blurring. I think we are, hopefully, becoming more accepting of differences. Gender stereotypes are blurring, one would hope, to the point of eventual disappearance. There will always be guys and girls, though.

I don't think everyone will become pan or bisexual, either. Again, I think acceptance will grow, and with that acceptance may come the illusion that more people are not straight, as more people decide to be honest about their sexuality.

Stryker125

April 25th, 2013, 03:03 PM

It actually hurt reading this thread.

So in our society the very definition of gender is changing. If it continues down it's current path, what do you think the future will be like? Do think we will live in a society where gender doesn't even exist, one where everyone is pansexual? Do you think the seriousness of sex will be degraded to nothingness? Perhaps two male friends can have some casual butt sex and then sit down (no pun intended) and play some video games? I'm not condoning or condemning any of the fore mentioned things. Where do you see our societies stance on gender/sex in the future?

To answer the questions, no I don't think we'll live in a world where gender doesn't exist. There's always gonna be guys and girls. I do think that eventually the stereotypical view of what a man/woman should or shouldn't wear, like, do, etc. will eventually go away. I also think that sexual preference isn't going to be as taboo as it is now, and that the stigma that comes along with certain sexual preferences will go away, and I'm cool with that. Maybe more people will be comfortable enough with themselves that they won't feel the need to lie or overcompensate when someone asks them if they're straight or not. And I think that's pretty cool.

As far as the sex thing, it does make me a little sad that sex isn't really taken as seriously as it probably should.

PerpetualImperfexion

April 25th, 2013, 04:17 PM

Hmmm I personally don't care what people wear. On the other hand it is an expression of their personality. Based on that, people who dye their hair, wear dresses, and paint their nails are going to have a much different personality than me and as a result I likely would not get along very well with them. I suppose that is in some sense judgmental, but I have a hard time believing we would be interested in the same things. Again I don't think they should be made fun of, excluded, or discriminated against, but I just don't see myself getting along with an individual who cross-dresses, etc.

Cicero

April 25th, 2013, 05:03 PM

What are you? Cicero v2.0?

Regarding this waiter issue (which you still can't seem to get out of the mindset of just jobs), of course they don't cross-dress. It's called uniform, it's what they HAVE to wear. And those aren't the only jobs in the world. Some jobs don't even need interviews. You just think a job is like one in an office, but there are many other jobs out there. People can be self employed.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Lol, I think you just want to get the last word in, no matter how idiotic it makes you look. I think it's rich that someone like you, someone who is too shy in the real world and lacks friends like you say in your threads, as well as a relationship is telling other people "good luck in the real world", considering it's mainly your beliefs that are affecting your social life.

Cross dressing =/= Conservative Republicans.
Businessman =/= Conservative Republicans.

You can't generalise one thing with another. Not everyone is like you. In fact, it's only a very small minority; the same people that can't deal with change.

It's not my beliefs that are affecting it, cause most people who I'm not friends with agree with me on stuff like this. And they even discriminate against gays. It's not my beliefs, but it's my shyness and my self confidence that affects my social life.

Most people I know agree with my political and social views. I said the majority of businessmen are republican, most people on Wall Street didn't want Obama. The majority of the 1% of America is republican/conservative. The 1% that has power and does matter to the world is republican/conservative.

Pure Innocent Nun

April 25th, 2013, 05:50 PM

It's not my beliefs that are affecting it, cause most people who I'm not friends with agree with me on stuff like this. And they even discriminate against gays.

That's not helping your case.

Cicero

April 25th, 2013, 06:10 PM

That's not helping your case.

How? I said they agree with my social and political views and they even discriminate against gays, so they're even more extreme than me.

Bethany

April 25th, 2013, 06:16 PM

I said the majority of businessmen are republican, most people on Wall Street didn't want Obama. The majority of the 1% of America is republican/conservative. The 1% that has power and does matter to the world is republican/conservative.

So...you think we should all do what republican/conservatives want because that's what the wealthiest people want us to do?

Rayquaza

April 25th, 2013, 06:18 PM

How? I said they agree with my social and political views and they even discriminate against gays, so they're even more extreme than me.

We're not even discussion homosexuality here, it's irrelevant and off topic. It's not about what people you know believe, it's about society as a whole. And society as a whole is accepting of gay people and it's you that needs to change. I feel like I've repeated myself 3/4 times now, and I have. Your argument is flawed, invalid and unimportant.

Cicero

April 25th, 2013, 07:14 PM

We're not even discussion homosexuality here, it's irrelevant and off topic. It's not about what people you know believe, it's about society as a whole. And society as a whole is accepting of gay people and it's you that needs to change. I feel like I've repeated myself 3/4 times now, and I have. Your argument is flawed, invalid and unimportant.

You said that there was no wonder why I didn't have many friends and relationships and etc. and I was saying how most of my community agrees with my opinions.

"I think it's rich that someone like you, someone who is too shy in the real world and lacks friends like you say in your threads, as well as a relationship is telling other people "good luck in the real world", considering it's mainly your beliefs that are affecting your social life."

That's what you said.

Here's what I said

"It's not my beliefs that are affecting it, cause most people who I'm not friends with agree with me on stuff like this. And they even discriminate against gays. It's not my beliefs, but it's my shyness and my self confidence that affects my social life."

Your opinion is no more important than mine is.

StoppingTime

April 25th, 2013, 07:39 PM

Your opinion is no more important than mine is.

When you fail to grasp (not agree with necessarily) and actually post in a way that shows us you understand our replies (rather than just repeating yourself and going on off topic tangents) your opinions and "rebuttals" aren't really important. Why? Because they're usually off topic, or completely disregard the actual post you're supposed to be replying to.

Cicero

April 25th, 2013, 07:47 PM

When you fail to grasp (not agree with necessarily) and actually post in a way that shows us you understand our replies (rather than just repeating yourself and going on off topic tangents) your opinions and "rebuttals" aren't really important. Why? Because they're usually off topic, or completely disregard the actual post you're supposed to be replying to.
.
"I think it's rich that someone like you, someone who is too shy in the real world and lacks friends like you say in your threads, as well as a relationship is telling other people "good luck in the real world", considering it's mainly your beliefs that are affecting your social life."

Reply
"It's not my beliefs that are affecting it, cause most people who I'm not friends with agree with me on stuff like this. And they even discriminate against gays. It's not my beliefs, but it's my shyness and my self confidence that affects my social life."

PerpetualImperfexion

April 25th, 2013, 07:54 PM

This is turning into a huge cluster-fuck of barely on topic/derogatory posts. Cicero's last two posts have almost been exactly the same. At this point we're trying to convince Cicero that his view of the world is flawed. I honestly wonder how many people have said the exact same thing to him or how many times the arguments have gone in a full circle. 120 posts ago people were trying to convince Cicero he was wrong. 120 posts later not even a dent has been made in his opinion and the last like two pages of posts are only loosely on topic. Just saying.

Rayquaza

April 26th, 2013, 01:33 AM

Yeah, just cause I think cross dressing is gross. Sorry I don't get turned on by guys dressing like women like you do, sorry I'm not a cross dressing "little monster" like the one many of you seem to worship. Sorry I dress and appear normal :rolleyes: Just shows how closed minded most of you are, if you were truly open minded, you would respect and accept my beliefs, Instead of persecuting them and calling me names, you all probably pick on me (being the minority of this site) because you get/you have gotten picked on for your own beliefs/freakiness. So you assume I'm just like the kids who picked on you. Most of the world is accepting toward gays, not cross dressers.

Seriously, what the fuck? Are you tripping on acid?

"Little monster", firstly, we only mentioned Lady Gaga to prove a point, we don't all love her. That was irrelevant and off topic.

There is no such thing as normal as I've said. This is the third god damn time I've had to repeat myself to you but now it's just talking to a brick wall.

Seriously, how dare you call us close minded, when you're the one thats close minded, bigoted and prejudiced. Everyone that reads this thread will see that. And if you even think about editing your posts with "...." don't bother because I've quoted each one I've replied to.

Having a debate is about being open to change and giving VALID reason why you are correct, not irrelevant off topic reasons that have nothing to do with it whatsoever, being completely obtuse on purpose and repeating yourself because people have to repeat themselves to you,and all you do is dodge each post and reply with a stupid one that shows you haven't even bothered to read it.

Homosexuality DOES NOT EQUAL Cross dressing. Stop bringing up these irrelevant points.

Cicero

April 26th, 2013, 01:48 AM

Seriously, what the fuck? Are you tripping on acid?

"Little monster", firstly, we only mentioned Lady Gaga to prove a point, we don't all love her. That was irrelevant and off topic.

There is no such thing as normal as I've said. This is the third god damn time I've had to repeat myself to you but now it's just talking to a brick wall.

Seriously, how dare you call us close minded, when you're the one thats close minded, bigoted and prejudiced. Everyone that reads this thread will see that. And if you even think about editing your posts with "...." don't bother because I've quoted each one I've replied to.

Having a debate is about being open to change and giving VALID reason why you are correct, not irrelevant off topic reasons that have nothing to do with it whatsoever, being completely obtuse on purpose and repeating yourself because people have to repeat themselves to you,and all you do is dodge each post and reply with a stupid one that shows you haven't even bothered to read it.

Homosexuality DOES NOT EQUAL Cross dressing. Stop bringing up these irrelevant points.
Alright, keep telling yourself there's no such thing as normal :rolleyes:

I never claim to be open minded, all of you do claim to be "open minded".

I simply said my opinion. My opinion doesn't have to have a solid fact because its an opinion, my opinion is that cross dressing is gross, fact is, cross dressing isn't normal (normal- conforming to a standard. Cross dressing isn't a standard.).

Never said it was. I just said that gays are accepted, whereas cross dressers aren't accepted (whereas you think they are).

Rayquaza

April 26th, 2013, 01:52 AM

Alright, keep telling yourself there's no such thing as normal :rolleyes:

I never claim to be open minded, all of you do claim to be "open minded".

I simply said my opinion. My opinion doesn't have to have a solid fact because its an opinion, my opinion is that cross dressing is gross, fact is, cross dressing isn't normal (normal- conforming to a standard. Cross dressing isn't a standard.).

Never said it was. I just said that gays are accepted, whereas cross dressers aren't accepted (whereas you think they are).

Ok, that's a perfectly fine answer and argument and I think we're getting somewhere at last. But I don't need to believe normal exists because I know that "normal" is just conforming to normative social influence. And none of us said we were open minded.

Cross dressing isn't a standard, but nothing is considered a standard in society.

Ryhanna

April 26th, 2013, 02:15 AM

Yeah, just cause I think cross dressing is gross. Sorry I don't get turned on by guys dressing like women like you do, sorry I'm not a cross dressing "little monster" like the one many of you seem to worship. Sorry I dress and appear normal :rolleyes: Just shows how closed minded most of you are, if you were truly open minded, you would respect and accept my beliefs, Instead of persecuting them and calling me names, you all probably pick on me (being the minority of this site) because you get/you have gotten picked on for your own beliefs/freakiness. So you assume I'm just like the kids who picked on you. Most of the world is accepting toward gays, not cross dressers.

-Why do you assume that anyone who isn't opposed to cross dressers has some kind of strange sexual fetish for them? Has it ever crossed your mind that we might just be accepting of other peoples differences?

-What does the idea that anyone here might be a Lady Gaga fan have to do with this? Have you seriously brought this debate to the point where you're attacking people's musical taste to 'prove' your point?

-No one has a problem with you dressing normal. We're not asking you to dress as a woman.

-We are open minded. Why should we be expected not to argue against your opinion when you continue to argue against ours? Being open minded doesn't mean that we have to be submissive.

-Why do you assume that we're all freaks who get bullied for not having an issue with cross-dressers? You say this shit and expect people not to call you a bigot?

-People weren't always accepting of black people, or gay people. A lot of the world currently isn't all that accepting of transgendered people or cross-dressers. This will change, eventually. Just like people became more accepting of black people and gay people.

Pure Innocent Nun

April 26th, 2013, 01:48 PM