NATO aggresion continues to this day

[tovaris]

13 years ago NATO bombed Serbija without any right now theyr aggresion has brought to the point where they will pull the last strings to steal the ocupied Kosovo.

Whats your opinion?

P. S. : i will argue with you and tri to make you think

[Harry Smith]

13 years ago NATO bombed Serbija without any right now theyr aggresion has brought to the point where they will pull the last strings to steal the ocupied Kosovo.

Whats your opinion?

P. S. : i will argue with you and tri to make you think

Serbia were committing multiple war crimes in Kosovo, we had to intervene to stop a Genocide by your fascist of a leader Milosevic. We stopped deliberate, systematic efforts at ethnic cleansing and genocide. Under Article 51 and 41 of the united nations charter we had to a right to legally do it. End of

[tovaris]

Serbia were committing multiple war crimes in Kosovo, we had to intervene to stop a Genocide by your fascist of a leader Milosevic. We stopped deliberate, systematic efforts at ethnic cleansing and genocide. Under Article 51 and 41 of the united nations charter we had to a right to legally do it. End of

He was a worst leder but that doesent mean you can bomb hospitals and civilian homes, blow him up. And yes a genocide was being comited in Kosovo by albanians thousends of serbs killed, they plaied footbal with serbian heads and njw serbians are the criminals...

[Harry Smith]

He was a worst leder but that doesent mean you can bomb hospitals and civilian homes, blow him up. And yes a genocide was being comited in Kosovo by albanians thousends of serbs killed, they plaied footbal with serbian heads and njw serbians are the criminals...

We didn't bomb Hospitals or Civilians as targets, they were just the by product of Aerial War, just like in WW2. It's a tough reality but you would still be under the Nazi's if it wasn't for the Bombing raids of WW2. Yes civilians were killed in Serbia from NATO bombing which isn't good but we stopped a Genocide

[tovaris]

We didn't bomb Hospitals or Civilians as targets, they were just the by product of Aerial War, just like in WW2. It's a tough reality but you would still be under the Nazi's if it wasn't for the Bombing raids of WW2. Yes civilians were killed in Serbia from NATO bombing which isn't good but we stopped a Genocide

Hospitals were targeted by gided bombs, outlaw cluster bombs were dropped. We liberated ourselves with a little help from uhe undefetabe Read army not british bomong rades. You merly helped albanians comite genocide which they are still commiting

[Southside]

We didn't bomb Hospitals or Civilians as targets, they were just the by product of Aerial War, just like in WW2. It's a tough reality but you would still be under the Nazi's if it wasn't for the Bombing raids of WW2. Yes civilians were killed in Serbia from NATO bombing which isn't good but we stopped a Genocide

So genocide on genocide is justifiable? Though I forgot, its only OK when NATO kills civilians, soon as some dictator or warlord does it's a big outcry. NATO is a war machine, you make it seem like NATO is some peace organization.

[britishboy]

NATOs good simple it tyrs to create world peace

[Harry Smith]

Hospitals were targeted by gided bombs, outlaw cluster bombs were dropped. We liberated ourselves with a little help from uhe undefetabe Read army not british bomong rades. You merly helped albanians comite genocide which they are still commiting

Do you have a source for that? The read army lost in Afghanistan aswell, we stopped the genocide of Albanians in Kosovo by your own leader and army, if you actually did some research you would see that the bombs missed there original targets of a barracks


So genocide on genocide is justifiable? Though I forgot, its only OK when NATO kills civilians, soon as some dictator or warlord does it's a big outcry. NATO is a war machine, you make it seem like NATO is some peace organization.

Your a Twat, we didn't commit genocide through a bombing raid. Did I ever say it was ok to kill Civilans? please quote me those exact words. NATO isn't a war machine, it had a vote between 27 members whether or not to intervene to stop the Massacre

[tovaris]

Do you have a source for that? The read army lost in Afghanistan aswell, we stopped the genocide of Albanians in Kosovo by your own leader and army, if you actually did some research you would see that the bombs missed there original targets of a barracks




Your a Twat, we didn't commit genocide through a bombing raid. Did I ever say it was ok to kill Civilans? please quote me those exact words. NATO isn't a war machine, it had a vote between 27 members whether or not to intervene to stop the Massacre

Yes i have sources people that lived there and people that shot down NATO planes (radar invisile bombers). Yes cluster bombs have a habit of not hitting the intended target, I also thaught that gided bombs vere ment ho hit one target ans so minimjse civilian casulties notmaximize them by targeting civilians.
NATO may not have commited genjcide in ful sense ot the word bot it enabled the albanians in Kosovo to do so. It is a war machine. And no country has a right to tell a nother what to do or to atack them for any internal reson internal afers are to be handeld by that countries people not some international war lords and wepon industry.

[Harry Smith]

Yes i have sources people that lived there and people that shot down NATO planes (radar invisile bombers). Yes cluster bombs have a habit of not hitting the intended target, I also thaught that gided bombs vere ment ho hit one target ans so minimjse civilian casulties notmaximize them by targeting civilians.
NATO may not have commited genjcide in ful sense ot the word bot it enabled the albanians in Kosovo to do so. It is a war machine. And no country has a right to tell a nother what to do or to atack them for any internal reson internal afers are to be handeld by that countries people not some international war lords and wepon industry.

why does everything thing that weapons are 100% accurate? You were ethnically cleansing the Albanians, you were attempting to commit genocide and you cannot deny that. Massive ethnic cleansing by your leader. We had a right to intervene when your government were committing war crimes, and under article 41 and 51 of the United Nations charter we had a right to do so. We stopped a Genocide by a racist regime

[tovaris]

why does everything thing that weapons are 100% accurate? You were ethnically cleansing the Albanians, you were attempting to commit genocide and you cannot deny that. Massive ethnic cleansing by your leader. We had a right to intervene when your government were committing war crimes, and under article 41 and 51 of the United Nations charter we had a right to do so. We stopped a Genocide by a racist regime

May be agat about a 100 serbd tried to kill theyr albanian neibours but the ral genocide was being commited by the albanians they kille thousendsn of serbs. Your beloved UN was created to prevent wars not start them no country has the right to atack a nother. No genkcide was stopped merly enabled.

[Left Now]

NATO made a lot of countries to ashes by its bombings and its attacks...For example Libya,,,What was the NATO in an argument between people and government while the people had an upper hand in their arguments with government...Why did NATO bombed ports and oil factories...Why did NATO just reduce the responsibility of Libya when people didn't need their help?...NATO members are still looking for cheap and easy oil which Libya has a lot...Why didn't they attack Gadhafi when he was in the top of the power in Libya?,,,Want to forget about NATO members and Gadhafi's trade appointments and oil agreements?...Well i cannot forget them...

[Harry Smith]

May be agat about a 100 serbd tried to kill theyr albanian neibours but the ral genocide was being commited by the albanians they kille thousendsn of serbs. Your beloved UN was created to prevent wars not start them no country has the right to atack a nother. No genkcide was stopped merly enabled.

Your stupid, have you heard of International Law? article 51- do some research

NATO made a lot of countries to ashes by its bombings and its attacks...For example Libya,,,What was the NATO in an argument between people and government while the people had an upper hand in their arguments with government...Why did NATO bombed ports and oil factories...Why did NATO just reduce the responsibility of Libya when people didn't need their help?...NATO members are still looking for cheap and easy oil which Libya has a lot...Why didn't they attack Gadhafi when he was in the top of the power in Libya?,,,Want to forget about NATO members and Gadhafi's trade appointments and oil agreements?...Well i cannot forget them...

Iran can hardly talk about morals can you, you've funded terrorism in Israel, India and Iraq through arms and training. Libya was selling us Oil, we didn't need to invade in order to get it, it was part of the Reagan Doctrine, he was anti communist in the 70's, then when he started supporting state terrorism in Germany and Ireland hence the airstrikes in '86 under article 51 of the united nations charter- all nations have the right to self defense. We bombed Libya's command and control structure and provided an UN backed no fly zone to protect civilians and stop a brutal dictator who was killing protesting civilians. Just like how Iran following the 2009 election there were reports of killing of demonstrators, the torture, rape and killing of detained protesters who wanted to rid there country of a corrupt regime

Double Post Merged~ Red Velvet

[Left Now]

Raping killing torturing injuring...Which one won't you see in US and UK?...Maybe there were something like this in my country during that year(do not agree with raping) but after those tortures we got what is going to happen in 2010 Nourooz celebration...A bombing which was planed by your friends Mojahedin-e-Khalq...
Also you think those rebels were innocent and didn't do anything just protesting...In Shiraz over 10 mosques full of people and children got attacked by green movement...4 study centers 4 public libraries 4 cultural places 3 nursing homes and...And also over 250 people got injured and 18(5 under 10 years kids) killed during the attacks of green movement...After then we asked the police to deal with them because they were not protesting they were destroying...over 5 women got raped by those whom you call them demonstrators before the dealing of police...Only in my City...And also it is your problem with buying cheap oil why do you kill other people because of this?

[britishboy]

stop hating NATO they are not a country they are a group of countries that work together for world peace they vote on stuff

[Left Now]

They have not to decide bombing countries dear Jack...
The path to world peace is not through destroying people and killing them...
After over 7 years of NATO invasion on Afghanistan only civilians didn't get any goods...The people there were just going to get sacrificed because of Taliban aggressions and NATO avarice...

[britishboy]

NATO means good but not always does good and what was we ment to leave Afghanistan alone? it was terrible there no rights for women terrorism everywhere and we are now training there police force! so in that sence it's good.

[Harry Smith]

Raping killing torturing injuring...Which one won't you see in US and UK?...Maybe there were something like this in my country during that year(do not agree with raping) but after those tortures we got what is going to happen in 2010 Nourooz celebration...A bombing which was planed by your friends Mojahedin-e-Khalq...
Also you think those rebels were innocent and didn't do anything just protesting...In Shiraz over 10 mosques full of people and children got attacked by green movement...4 study centers 4 public libraries 4 cultural places 3 nursing homes and...And also over 250 people got injured and 18(5 under 10 years kids) killed during the attacks of green movement...After then we asked the police to deal with them because they were not protesting they were destroying...over 5 women got raped by those whom you call them demonstrators before the dealing of police...Only in my City...And also it is your problem with buying cheap oil why do you kill other people because of this?

We don't torture, kill or rape politcal oppenents over here- we have democracy. You can't condone the torture of rebels, if I was in Iran I would be doing everything possible to get rid of the regime. Do you also have a source to prove the green movement did this?

[Left Now]

Do you have anything to prove you are going to toilet every day?
I myself got injured by metal staff in my head when i was just studying in a library...After going to police the news from every where came to us...When we were sitting on the chairs the polices were acting quickly and telling each other the news from city...Just one day it happened and the next day police smashed the rebels to prevent future transgressions...
And for your democracy...You can say that you are not doing this but how can i believe it when you are saying this?

[tovaris]

stop hating NATO they are not a country they are a group of countries that work together for world peace they vote on stuff

They work together atacking inosents and civilians when they have no right

Your stupid, have you heard of International Law? article 51- do some research


Exactly read it especaly the first part about individual defence in case of an atack. And also the very first paragraf of that particulare document sais the un will protect against war not tell NATO to wage it for no reason.

Double Post Merged~ Red Velvet

[Harry Smith]

Exactly read it especaly the first part about individual defence in case of an atack. And also the very first paragraf of that particulare document sais the un will protect against war not tell NATO to wage it for no reason.

Article 42 states that should the Security Council consider that measures provided for in Article 41 would be inadequate or have proved to be inadequate, it may take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such action may include demonstrations, blockade, and other operations by air, sea, or land forces of Members of the United Nations.

The second specific exception is found in article 51, regarding the right to self-defence. The article states that nothing in the present charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. This was a collective effort of self defense for Kosovo by NATO.

The United Nations also considers NATO to be a "regional arrangement" under UN Article 52, which allows them to deal matters relating to the maintenance of international peace and security as are appropriate for regional action provided that such arrangements or agencies and their activities are consistent with the Purposes and Principles of the United Nations.

[tovaris]

Article 42 states that should the Security Council consider that measures provided for in Article 41 would be inadequate or have proved to be inadequate, it may take such action by air, sea, or land forces as may be necessary to maintain or restore international peace and security. Such action may include demonstrations, blockade, and other operations by air, sea, or land forces of Members of the United Nations.

The second specific exception is found in article 51, regarding the right to self-defence. The article states that nothing in the present charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. This was a collective effort of self defense for Kosovo by NATO.

The United Nations also considers NATO to be a "regional arrangement" under UN Article 52, which allows them to deal matters relating to the maintenance of international peace and security as are appropriate for regional action provided that such arrangements or agencies and their activities are consistent with the Purposes and Principles of the United Nations.

The united nations were cteated to keep pece not wage war.
International pece was not broken the war staied inside of serbijas borders when brave serbian trops faught againced albanian thraters who were suported bi NATO and company. They comited genocide and we defended ourselves they should have bombed albanian positions not serbija civilians.

[Harry Smith]

The united nations were cteated to keep pece not wage war.
International pece was not broken the war staied inside of serbijas borders when brave serbian trops faught againced albanian thraters who were suported bi NATO and company. They comited genocide and we defended ourselves they should have bombed albanian positions not serbija civilians.

The united nations wasn't created to keep peace for all countries, article 51 states that a nation has a right to self defense not matter what the charter says and that the right cannot be taken away. How brave are the Serbian troops when they burnt down villages, raped women and killed children.

-The Bruška massacre took place on 21 December 1991 in Bruška, a small village near the Croatian town of Benkovac when Serbian paramilitaries executed 10 civilians in the hamlet of Marinovići.

-After the town of Erdut was forcefully taken over by the Serb Volunteer Guard and JNA and annexed to the puppet state of Republic of Serbian Krajina during Croatian War of Independence, Croats and other non-Serbs were either expelled or killed, with Serbs repopulating empty villages in the area. From November 1991 until February 1992, there was a series of murders that took the lives of 37 civilians in total.

-Škabrnja and Nadin massacre, was a war crime perpetrated by Serb Army forces during the Croatian War of Independence. On November 18, 1991, Serb paramilitaries, supported by the JNA, captured the village of Škabrnja and killed 7 Prisoners of war and 62 civilians by March 1992. Several people also died when stepping on landmines. In total, 86 people were killed, mostly the women, or the elderly. Škabrnja and Nadin were ethnically cleansed of its non-Serb population and annexed to the Republic of Serbian Krajina.

Does this look like self Defense?

[Southside]

Do you have a source for that? The read army lost in Afghanistan aswell, we stopped the genocide of Albanians in Kosovo by your own leader and army, if you actually did some research you would see that the bombs missed there original targets of a barracks




Your a Twat, we didn't commit genocide through a bombing raid. Did I ever say it was ok to kill Civilans? please quote me those exact words. NATO isn't a war machine, it had a vote between 27 members whether or not to intervene to stop the Massacre

You know, in the 2011 Libya NATO campaign, the term was used "Humanitarian Airstrikes". It's funny how your under the impression that NATO is some relief organization or humanitarian aid, its a murderous war machine. A lot of people in Western countries dont care when a civilian of a enemy country is bombed, its simple "collateral damage'' or a "accident", soon as some foreign dictator or warlord kills civilians everyone is butthurt. Stop believing everything the corperate media tells you.

[Harry Smith]

You know, in the 2011 Libya NATO campaign, the term was used "Humanitarian Airstrikes". NATO isnt some peace organization or humanitarian aid, you have the wrong impression of NATO, it is a war machine. To bring "peace" you need war...

NATO isn't a war machine, if they really were this grand evil group you think they are then would have steam rolled Europe back in the 50's, it's a self defense group which ensures that it's allies are protected from both Internal and external threats and until the Federal European army is created they have to act as Europe police task force against both Terrorism and war crimes

[Southside]

NATO isn't a war machine, if they really were this grand evil group you think they are then would have steam rolled Europe back in the 50's, it's a self defense group which ensures that it's allies are protected from both Internal and external threats and until the Federal European army is created they have to act as Europe police task force against both Terrorism and war crimes

Self defense? Libya wasnt a direct threat to Europe or US, Serbia and Yugoslavia wasnt a direct threat to Europe. When you say self defense you make it seem like Libya and Yugoslavia were launching missiles and airstrikes into NATO countries. Now, this happened a few months ago, Syria shelled cities in Turkey, if NATO would have attacked Syria that would have been legit self defense. What makes NATO & US some world police?

[Harry Smith]

Self defense? Libya wasnt a direct threat to Europe or US, Serbia and Yugoslavia wasnt a direct threat to Europe. When you say self defense you make it seem like Libya and Yugoslavia were launching missiles and airstrikes into NATO countries. Now, this happened a few months ago, Syria shelled cities in Turkey, if NATO would have attacked Syria that would have been legit self defense. What makes NATO & US some world police?

In the early morning hours on Tuesday, a ship carrying two Patriot anti-missile systems set out from the northeastern German seaport Lübeck-Travemü nde for Turkey. A separate convoy of German soldiers was expected to fly later in the day from the Dutch city of Eindhoven, along with Dutch troops, where they will prepare for the defense systems’ arrival in several weeks.

Germany, the Netherlands and the US agreed to deploy the defense systems in reponse to a request for NATO assistance.. .along its border with Syria. They are the only three members of the Western military alliance that have the most advanced models of the Patriots, which are designed to intercept enemy missiles or aircraft.
DW.DE

This is an extract from a speech by Angela Merkel, that's what we did to help protect Turkey, Syria didn't declare war, it was just a border skirmish, if we attacked every time someone shelled our allies we would have had about 10 more world wars.

NATO had an United Nations resolution allowing the action, we purely enforced the No fly zone and launched air strikes to stop the Gaddafi regime from oppressing it's civilians in open conflict. Serbia was a threat to mankind, if we didn't bomb them then there would have been another genocide, another holocaust another smudge on the History books of the west. You can try and picture NATO as the big bad western wolf but I am certain that we stopped systematic rape, torture and killings of innocent women and children targeted because they prayed to the 'wrong' god.

[Southside]

In the early morning hours on Tuesday, a ship carrying two Patriot anti-missile systems set out from the northeastern German seaport Lübeck-Travemü nde for Turkey. A separate convoy of German soldiers was expected to fly later in the day from the Dutch city of Eindhoven, along with Dutch troops, where they will prepare for the defense systems’ arrival in several weeks.

Germany, the Netherlands and the US agreed to deploy the defense systems in reponse to a request for NATO assistance.. .along its border with Syria. They are the only three members of the Western military alliance that have the most advanced models of the Patriots, which are designed to intercept enemy missiles or aircraft.
DW.DE

This is an extract from a speech by Angela Merkel, that's what we did to help protect Turkey, Syria didn't declare war, it was just a border skirmish, if we attacked every time someone shelled our allies we would have had about 10 more world wars.

NATO had an United Nations resolution allowing the action, we purely enforced the No fly zone and launched air strikes to stop the Gaddafi regime from oppressing it's civilians in open conflict. Serbia was a threat to mankind, if we didn't bomb them then there would have been another genocide, another holocaust another smudge on the History books of the west. You can try and picture NATO as the big bad western wolf but I am certain that we stopped systematic rape, torture and killings of innocent women and children targeted because they prayed to the 'wrong' god.

Ok..Libya, was that "self defense"?

[Harry Smith]

Ok..Libya, was that "self defense"?

Libya wasn't a NATO attack, it was a approved measure by the United Nations security council to provide a no fly zone to protect Civilians. United Nations Resolution 1973

[Southside]

Libya wasn't a NATO attack, it was a approved measure by the United Nations security council to provide a no fly zone to protect Civilians. United Nations Resolution 1973

If Libya wasnt a NATO attack who carried out the airstrikes and missile strikes? The UN?

[Harry Smith]

If Libya wasnt a NATO attack who carried out the airstrikes and missile strikes? The UN?

I'm saying it wasn't an Independent attack by the NATO summit, it had a security resolution allowing NATO to enforce it. It was perfectly legal

[tovaris]

The united nations wasn't created to keep peace for all countries, article 51 states that a nation has a right to self defense not matter what the charter says and that the right cannot be taken away. How brave are the Serbian troops when they burnt down villages, raped women and killed children.

-The Bruška massacre took place on 21 December 1991 in Bruška, a small village near the Croatian town of Benkovac when Serbian paramilitaries executed 10 civilians in the hamlet of Marinovići.

-After the town of Erdut was forcefully taken over by the Serb Volunteer Guard and JNA and annexed to the puppet state of Republic of Serbian Krajina during Croatian War of Independence, Croats and other non-Serbs were either expelled or killed, with Serbs repopulating empty villages in the area. From November 1991 until February 1992, there was a series of murders that took the lives of 37 civilians in total.

-Škabrnja and Nadin massacre, was a war crime perpetrated by Serb Army forces during the Croatian War of Independence. On November 18, 1991, Serb paramilitaries, supported by the JNA, captured the village of Škabrnja and killed 7 Prisoners of war and 62 civilians by March 1992. Several people also died when stepping on landmines. In total, 86 people were killed, mostly the women, or the elderly. Škabrnja and Nadin were ethnically cleansed of its non-Serb population and annexed to the Republic of Serbian Krajina.

Does this look like self Defense?

Exactly the serbian nation had to defend itself from the albanian infadors - self defence, and no othem member of the UN had to defend itself by bombing civilian targets with cluster bombs.

As far as the Bosnian tragedies go as stateb before war crimes were commited in Bosnia on ALL sides many in retaliation to others. But remember your own words paramilitari ect. (JLA stopped existing a long time before that the zombie that romed round during the Jugoslavian wars was led by a bunch of jental patients and stafed by fanatics and those forcedly recruted). In the case of Bosnia again the international comunaty made the situation wors by sending troops there, videos exist of UN trucka in Bosnia nd gues what everione hated them and threw stones at them no mather their natiinality Bošnjak, Srb or Hrvat. This was a blody and terible was among brothers that the international community had no biznis interfering.

[Harry Smith]

Exactly the serbian nation had to defend itself from the albanian infadors - self defence, and no othem member of the UN had to defend itself by bombing civilian targets with cluster bombs.

As far as the Bosnian tragedies go as stateb before war crimes were commited in Bosnia on ALL sides many in retaliation to others. But remember your own words paramilitari ect. (JLA stopped existing a long time before that the zombie that romed round during the Jugoslavian wars was led by a bunch of jental patients and stafed by fanatics and those forcedly recruted). In the case of Bosnia again the international comunaty made the situation wors by sending troops there, videos exist of UN trucka in Bosnia nd gues what everione hated them and threw stones at them no mather their natiinality Bošnjak, Srb or Hrvat. This was a blody and terible was among brothers that the international community had no biznis interfering.

self defense doesn't include rape, murder and looting of another region or country

[tovaris]

Libya wasn't a NATO attack, it was a approved measure by the United Nations security council to provide a no fly zone to protect Civilians. United Nations Resolution 1973

Oh stopp it no one has the right to atack a nother country no mathe what it is happening inside in lybija it was a ciwal war their war not to be medeld in by others

self defense doesn't include rape, murder and looting of another region or country

Do you have any prof of that?
All wasr have an element of the above yust loock what the US is doing on foren and eomestick soil in the name of some silly war.

Double Post Merged~ Red Velvet

[Harry Smith]

Do you have any prof of that?
All wasr have an element of the above yust loock what the US is doing on foren and eomestick soil in the name of some silly war.

Foren? eomsetick?

And yes I do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21957487

The prosecution's argument that [...] the allegations made in the three indictments [Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo] were all part of a common scheme, strategy or plan on the part of the accused [Slobodan Milošević] to create a "Greater Serbia", a centralised Serbian state encompassing the Serb-populated areas of Croatia and Bosnia and all of Kosovo, and that this plan was to be achieved by forcibly removing non-Serbs from large geographical areas through the commission of the crime charged in the indictments. Although the events in Kosovo were separated from those in Croatia and Bosnia by more than three years, they were, the prosecution claimed, no more than a continuation of that plan, and they could only be understood completely by reference to what had happened in Croatia and Bosnia.[14]

— Decision of the ICTY Appeals Chamber; 18 April 2002.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vo%C4%87in_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begejci_camp

[tovaris]

Foren? eomsetick?

And yes I do.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21957487

The prosecution's argument that [...] the allegations made in the three indictments [Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo] were all part of a common scheme, strategy or plan on the part of the accused [Slobodan Milošević] to create a "Greater Serbia", a centralised Serbian state encompassing the Serb-populated areas of Croatia and Bosnia and all of Kosovo, and that this plan was to be achieved by forcibly removing non-Serbs from large geographical areas through the commission of the crime charged in the indictments. Although the events in Kosovo were separated from those in Croatia and Bosnia by more than three years, they were, the prosecution claimed, no more than a continuation of that plan, and they could only be understood completely by reference to what had happened in Croatia and Bosnia.[14]

— Decision of the ICTY Appeals Chamber; 18 April 2002.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vo%C4%87in_massacre

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begejci_camp

You shouldent belive everithing in the wersten media.
And yes Milošević is a criminal thats why we sent him to court.
And once again there was no genocide of the albanians in Kosovo there was a genocide ot the Kosovo serbs that continues to this day.
Tha yougoslav cival was was a blody war betven brothers which was caused mqinla by the international comunita and their pupits, there were only loosers no one wou exept the western powers, everione lost and not even an inch of ground exchanged hands.

[Harry Smith]

You shouldent belive everithing in the wersten media.
And yes Milošević is a criminal thats why we sent him to court.
And once again there was no genocide of the albanians in Kosovo there was a genocide ot the Kosovo serbs that continues to this day.
Tha yougoslav cival was was a blody war betven brothers which was caused mqinla by the international comunita and their pupits, there were only loosers no one wou exept the western powers, everione lost and not even an inch of ground exchanged hands.

You shouldn't dismiss all western media, also you used Juxtaposition in your last post. You said that the western powers won but then you say everyone lost? you also seem to have made a number of errors with spelling. In regards to Albanians

1)There were more than 10 000 killed people of which more than 3000 result disappeared and buried in mass graves in Serbia and Montenegro.The most part of this people were civilians and the other Freedom fighter of the UCK.

2)The genocidal assault launched against Kosovo's civilian population in 1998-99 bore many of the hallmarks of the earlier Serb campaigns in Bosnia. From a gender perspective, a strong trend was evident in the expulsion of women, children, and the elderly, the sexual assault of younger Kosovo women, and the systematic targeting of the "battle-age" male population for mass execution, detention, and torture.

3)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C4%8Dak_massacre

[Southside]

You shouldn't dismiss all western media, also you used Juxtaposition in your last post. You said that the western powers won but then you say everyone lost? you also seem to have made a number of errors with spelling. In regards to Albanians

1)There were more than 10 000 killed people of which more than 3000 result disappeared and buried in mass graves in Serbia and Montenegro.The most part of this people were civilians and the other Freedom fighter of the UCK.

2)The genocidal assault launched against Kosovo's civilian population in 1998-99 bore many of the hallmarks of the earlier Serb campaigns in Bosnia. From a gender perspective, a strong trend was evident in the expulsion of women, children, and the elderly, the sexual assault of younger Kosovo women, and the systematic targeting of the "battle-age" male population for mass execution, detention, and torture.

3)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C4%8Dak_massacre


So NATO is a peace/humanitarian organization?

[Stronk Serb]

Do you have a source for that? The read army lost in Afghanistan aswell, we stopped the genocide of Albanians in Kosovo by your own leader and army, if you actually did some research you would see that the bombs missed there original targets of a barracks




Your a Twat, we didn't commit genocide through a bombing raid. Did I ever say it was ok to kill Civilans? please quote me those exact words. NATO isn't a war machine, it had a vote between 27 members whether or not to intervene to stop the Massacre



Ok, proof: Tabacco facory in Nis was leveled, now we only have foreign cigars, Dragisa Misovic hospital was bombed, luckily the evacuation was almost complete on the upper floors where the bomb hit, the building of the national television was destroyed, people were on work when it happened.Targeting BOTH Serbian and Albanian civilian convoys (I am sure about the Serbian ones), installing a puppet government on Kosovo which is comitting violence against Serbs also.

The united nations wasn't created to keep peace for all countries, article 51 states that a nation has a right to self defense not matter what the charter says and that the right cannot be taken away. How brave are the Serbian troops when they burnt down villages, raped women and killed children.

-The Bruška massacre took place on 21 December 1991 in Bruška, a small village near the Croatian town of Benkovac when Serbian paramilitaries executed 10 civilians in the hamlet of Marinovići.

-After the town of Erdut was forcefully taken over by the Serb Volunteer Guard and JNA and annexed to the puppet state of Republic of Serbian Krajina during Croatian War of Independence, Croats and other non-Serbs were either expelled or killed, with Serbs repopulating empty villages in the area. From November 1991 until February 1992, there was a series of murders that took the lives of 37 civilians in total.

-Škabrnja and Nadin massacre, was a war crime perpetrated by Serb Army forces during the Croatian War of Independence. On November 18, 1991, Serb paramilitaries, supported by the JNA, captured the village of Škabrnja and killed 7 Prisoners of war and 62 civilians by March 1992. Several people also died when stepping on landmines. In total, 86 people were killed, mostly the women, or the elderly. Škabrnja and Nadin were ethnically cleansed of its non-Serb population and annexed to the Republic of Serbian Krajina.

Does this look like self Defense?

Those are paramilitaries, psychos hired by the Radical Party leader Seselj, or Vuk Draskovic's paramilitaries. They have no connection with the army, although Milosevic used them as auxiliary troops sometimes. They were an indenpendent army.

Double Post Merged~ Red Velvet

[Stronk Serb]

You shouldn't dismiss all western media, also you used Juxtaposition in your last post. You said that the western powers won but then you say everyone lost? you also seem to have made a number of errors with spelling. In regards to Albanians

1)There were more than 10 000 killed people of which more than 3000 result disappeared and buried in mass graves in Serbia and Montenegro.The most part of this people were civilians and the other Freedom fighter of the UCK.

2)The genocidal assault launched against Kosovo's civilian population in 1998-99 bore many of the hallmarks of the earlier Serb campaigns in Bosnia. From a gender perspective, a strong trend was evident in the expulsion of women, children, and the elderly, the sexual assault of younger Kosovo women, and the systematic targeting of the "battle-age" male population for mass execution, detention, and torture.

3)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C4%8Dak_massacre


The Albanians did the same thing, now Thaci is not in court, but head of state.

NATO means good but not always does good and what was we ment to leave Afghanistan alone? it was terrible there no rights for women terrorism everywhere and we are now training there police force! so in that sence it's good.


As I reccall, women in Iraq had the same rights and served in the army during Saddam's rule, now they are treated like shit. About Afghanistan I do not know.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Abigballofdust]

Those are paramilitaries, psychos hired by the Radical Party leader Seselj, or Vuk Draskovic's paramilitaries. They have no connection with the army, although Milosevic used them as auxiliary troops sometimes. They were an indenpendent army.

Fighting in the name of Serbia. And it pleased Serbia anyways. You had the whole JNA at your orders, Seselja and Draskovic could have been stopped had you wanted it.

[Harry Smith]

So NATO is a peace/humanitarian organization?

Did I ever say it was?

[tovaris]

The Albanians did the same thing, now Thaci is not in court, but head of state.

Not only that his goons killed of all witneses so that he cannot be convicted for his horible crimesl

You shouldn't dismiss all western media, also you used Juxtap osition in your last post. You said that the western powers won but then you say everyone lost? you also seem to have made a number of errors with spelling. In regards to Albanians


Western povers won everione who had to engage in the war lost.


1)There were more than 10 000 killed people of which more than 3000 result disappeared and buried in mass graves in Serbia and Montenegro.The most part of this people were civilians and the other Freedom fighter of the UCK.

„Fredom fighters” realy thats what you are going, with they had all the freedom even so much in facit that they settled there they are not a native population they are invadors.
And if anyone lies in mass unmarked graves it is Serbian civilians who were brutaly murderd by the Albanians, for gods sake they plaied footbal with the heads of Serbijan civilians.

Double Post Merged~ Red Velvet

[Stronk Serb]

Fighting in the name of Serbia. And it pleased Serbia anyways. You had the whole JNA at your orders, Seselja and Draskovic could have been stopped had you wanted it.


Like you did not have blood-ctazed killers among your ranks? Milosevic was an ass. So were Bosnian and Croat opposition leaders. They also had strong nationalism. The Ustashas were reformed, and so were the Chetniks, and so the Mujahedins (don' know how to spell it) were also formed. I personally was not alive, but I would love to have Seselj an Draskovic sentenced to death by firring squad. Milosevic too. He waged war just like Hitler. We are all Slavics, and we butchered eachother. There could at least be killings only between troops of the opposing sides, or no killing at all.

[Abigballofdust]

Like you did not have blood-ctazed killers among your ranks? Milosevic was an ass. So were Bosnian and Croat opposition leaders. They also had strong nationalism. The Ustashas were reformed, and so were the Chetniks, and so the Mujahedins (don' know how to spell it) were also formed. I personally was not alive, but I would love to have Seselj an Draskovic sentenced to death by firring squad. Milosevic too. He waged war just like Hitler. We are all Slavics, and we butchered eachother. There could at least be killings only between troops of the opposing sides, or no killing at all.

I do not deny that there were blood thirsty Croats going to war only to kill anything Serbian. Hell, the UN even had to threaten Croatia with bombings after Oluja to stop them from crossing further into Bosnia. And I also do not deny there have been war crimes from the Croatian side.
What I'm trying to say here is that Serbia wanted the Chetniks to fight, militarily or paramilitarily.
With the direct control over the whole of JNA, Serbia could have easily ordered a restraining for those killing people in the name of Serbia and outside Serbia's territory.

[Harry Smith]

Western povers won everione who had to engage in the war lost.


„Fredom fighters” realy thats what you are going, with they had all the freedom even so much in facit that they settled there they are not a native population they are invadors.
And if anyone lies in mass unmarked graves it is Serbian civilians who were brutaly murderd by the Albanians, for gods sake they plaied footbal with the heads of Serbijan civilians.

You seem to justify the genocide and war crimes committed by the Serbians against the Albanians simply by stating they did it aswell

[tovaris]

You seem to justify the genocide and war crimes committed by the Serbians against the Albanians simply by stating they did it aswell

I do not justify genocide or any kind of murder oc civilians on any side.
But a genocide of the albanian population did not happen, there were killings commited by fanatics but no sistematick genocide like you had on the other sides when albanians would sistematicly destroy serbian civilian population.

[Southside]

You seem to justify the genocide and war crimes committed by the Serbians against the Albanians simply by stating they did it aswell

Your justifying massacre of civilians(NATO) with massacre of civilians by Serbs..Fighting fire with fire?

[Harry Smith]

Your justifying massacre of civilians(NATO) with massacre of civilians by Serbs..Fighting fire with fire?

Massarce is the completely wrong phrase to describe air strikes aimed at command and Control centers. Civilians were not the targets for the air strikes but rather the accidental damage. Have you ever heard of the allies bombing over germany in WW2. Serbians didn't massarce civilans, they committed genocide. Get your facts right

[Southside]

Massarce is the completely wrong phrase to describe air strikes aimed at command and Control centers. Civilians were not the targets for the air strikes but rather the accidental damage. Have you ever heard of the allies bombing over germany in WW2. Serbians didn't massarce civilans, they committed genocide. Get your facts right

Stop defending NATO, cold blood murders, I know civilians werent the targets but doesnt NATO have "smart munitions'' that are suposed to limit civilin deaths? Dont compare WW2 with the Yugoslav NATO intervention, WW2 was a B-17 bombers with unguided bombs dropping on cities or strategic areas, which killed a lot of civilians. Fast forward a couple decades and what about laser guided munitions, satellite guided munitions..Come on man..I know civilian deaths are accident but when its over 300+ and you have "smart" munitions thats kinda pathetic

[Harry Smith]

Stop defending NATO, cold blood murders, I know civilians werent the targets but doesnt NATO have "smart munitions'' that are suposed to limit civilin deaths? Dont compare WW2 with the Yugoslav NATO intervention, WW2 was a B-17 bombers with unguided bombs dropping on cities or strategic areas, which killed a lot of civilians. Fast forward a couple decades and what about laser guided munitions, satellite guided munitions..Come on man..I know civilian deaths are accident but when its over 300+ and you have "smart" munitions thats kinda pathetic

Once again you show your terrible understanding of international law, it wasn't murder. Try and start a civil law suit for murder.... it would get thrown at straight away. I can and will compare it to WW2 because yes weapons have improved but there is still a margin of error especially when your flying at 30,000 ft to avoid flack.

IF WE DIDN'T DO IT THEY WOULD HAVE COMPLETED THE ANNIHILATION OF THE ALBANIANS, WE STOPPED A COLD BLOODED GENOCIDE......

[Stronk Serb]

Once again you show your terrible understanding of international law, it wasn't murder. Try and start a civil law suit for murder.... it would get thrown at straight away. I can and will compare it to WW2 because yes weapons have improved but there is still a margin of error especially when your flying at 30,000 ft to avoid flack.

IF WE DIDN'T DO IT THEY WOULD HAVE COMPLETED THE ANNIHILATION OF THE ALBANIANS, WE STOPPED A COLD BLOODED GENOCIDE......



You directly hit on part of the national television building, killing many employees, when is direct hit at a tabbacco factory called "targeting military objectives", you had to fly at 10000 ft. of height, since the JNA did not have any functional AA systems for targeting planes on bigger heights, targeting a bridge full of civilians, while in range to ID that they truly are civilians is also murder. There are reports of NATO planes targeting Albanian civilian convoys also. And those same Albanians are mistreating the Serbs on Kosovo. Serbs there lived like black people in America before the sixties-seventies, or even worse. You are fighting fire with gasoline.

[tovaris]

Once again you show your terrible understanding of international law, it wasn't murder. Try and start a civil law suit for murder.... it would get thrown at straight away. I can and will compare it to WW2 because yes weapons have improved but there is still a margin of error especially when your flying at 30,000 ft to avoid flack.

IF WE DIDN'T DO IT THEY WOULD HAVE COMPLETED THE ANNIHILATION OF THE ALBANIANS, WE STOPPED A COLD BLOODED GENOCIDE......

There was no genocide of Albanians on Kosovo like there were no wepons of mass destruction in Iraq.
And targeting hospitals is not missing militari targets that shouldent have been atacked in the first place its international terorisem on a mas scale. (The ww2 bombings were also acts of teror even the british sad so).

Massarce is the completely wrong phrase to describe air strikes aimed at command and Control centers. Civilians were not the targets for the air strikes but rather the accidental damage. Have you ever heard of the allies bombing over germany in WW2. Serbians didn't massarce civilans, they committed genocide. Get your facts right

Oh yes drop a bomb on the national television station in the middle of the day and all the civilians killedbin and near it are simply coletoral damage. Targrting hospital centers=accident, targeting civilian industry=accident; how can you belive and spread this lies?
No genocide was being commited by the serbian side.

Double Post Merged~ Red Velvet

[Harry Smith]

There was no genocide of Albanians on Kosovo like there were no wepons of mass destruction in Iraq.
And targeting hospitals is not missing militari targets that shouldent have been atacked in the first place its international terorisem on a mas scale. (The ww2 bombings were also acts of teror even the british sad so).

You need to do your History work, are you actually denying that there wasn't an attempted genocide of the Albanians?

[tovaris]

You need to do your History work, are you actually denying that there wasn't an attempted genocide of the Albanians?

There were extremist fanatic gruos atampting something similar, but the horor of their crimes pales in conpareson to what the inasiv Albanion population commited and is stil doing now.

[Harry Smith]

There were extremist fanatic gruos atampting something similar, but the horor of their crimes pales in conpareson to what the inasiv Albanion population commited and is stil doing now.

Learn to spell, we stopped a Genocide. End of, I don't really care about what you claim to be going on, visit the UN and see what they say, we stopped a genocide, you didn't

[Twilly F. Sniper]

NATO is only aggresive to terrorism. Communism, Fascism and that sort. Because rulers like that are only hurting their country and everyone else for attention.

[tovaris]

Learn to spell, we stopped a Genocide. End of, I don't really care about what you claim to be going on, visit the UN and see what they say, we stopped a genocide, you didn't

Your history is incorect as it that of the western powers, there was no genocide of albaniJans that you could have stopped and you certantly dident stopp the genocide of serbs.

[britishboy]

the Serbs were like Hitler they both tried wiping out a race both had no mercy on innocent civilians and both got fucked up by Great Britian and the United States:D

[Stronk Serb]

the Serbs were like Hitler they both tried wiping out a race both had no mercy on innocent civilians and both got fucked up by Great Britian and the United States:D

Piss off imperialist dog, you do not know shit what happened here.

[Harry Smith]

Your history is incorect as it that of the western powers, there was no genocide of albaniJans that you could have stopped and you certantly dident stopp the genocide of serbs.

Historically that's incorrect, many historians from both east and west value many of the key points of western History, you can't dismiss a source due to it being from the Western Powers. Have you ever done a History paper before?

[Human]

If this discussion doesn't cool down then the thread will have to be locked. Please don't personally insult other members, or flame.

[Stronk Serb]

Historically that's incorrect, many historians from both east and west value many of the key points of western History, you can't dismiss a source due to it being from the Western Powers. Have you ever done a History paper before?

There's an old saying... Oh how it goes... Ah, yes, history is written by the winners. Technically, you won an decided what will enter history. Watc the movie "The Weight if Chains" it is from the Serbian and Eastern side of the story, which is by me far more rational. I am sure maticek did a history paper, and so did I. You look or historical facts from sources whose interests do not match, for example, the Catholic and Orthodox church's records on Slavic people in the Balkans. Or Soviet and US records about the Vietnam War.

If this discussion doesn't cool down then the thread will have to be locked. Please don't personally insult other members, or flame.

I am sorry for my outburst, but I find it very insulting to compare my people with Hitler who killed almost 2 million of my people during WWII.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Harry Smith]

There's an old saying... Oh how it goes... Ah, yes, history is written by the winners. Technically, you won an decided what will enter history. Watc the movie "The Weight if Chains" it is from the Serbian and Eastern side of the story, which is by me far more rational. I am sure maticek did a history paper, and so did I. You look or historical facts from sources whose interests do not match, for example, the Catholic and Orthodox church's records on Slavic people in the Balkans. Or Soviet and US records about the Vietnam War.

Once again you can't use broad generalizations, I've looked at American sources from the anti-war and Pro-war lobbys, I understand how Historical facts. It just annoys me on this forum that we have people debating about something they have clearly no idea about, claiming thatcher killed millions of people through not allowing Health care, half the people on here have no fucking idea what they are talking about.

I can't be asked with this thread anymore, I'm just going to end up upsetting people

[tovaris]

Historically that's incorrect, many historians from both east and west value many of the key points of western History, you can't dismiss a source due to it being from the Western Powers. Have you ever done a History paper before?

No i dont dismiss it soly because it comes from the west i dismis it because its incorect read a history book once in a while, beside who said i suport the estern USSR & PR China generated history. Thow i do agre that the estern werson of history holds mor truth than the western.

[Left Now]

NATO members are still trade allies too so they will do anything to save their trade partners.Even attacking a country without any reason...It is the rule of Business...

[Polansek]

. It just annoys me on this forum that we have people debating about something they have clearly no idea about, claiming thatcher killed millions of people through not allowing Health care, half the people on here have no fucking idea what they are talking about.


Actuly maticek is partly corect on that point Tatcher did not directly disable the helth care sistem, but if we loock at the enfant mortality after she came to power whel after falling for years it stagnated, similar things could be abserved all ower the helth care sistem regarding the pur and so on.

[Harry Smith]

Actuly maticek is partly corect on that point Tatcher did not directly disable the helth care sistem, but if we loock at the enfant mortality after she came to power whel after falling for years it stagnated, similar things could be abserved all ower the helth care sistem regarding the pur and so on.

How is the Infant Mortaility rate anything to do with Thatcher? that is completely different to her personally killing children. So many other factors could of affected that, it's like blaming the government for a Hurricane.

[britishboy]

How is the Infant Mortaility rate anything to do with Thatcher? that is completely different to her personally killing children. So many other factors could of affected that, it's like blaming the government for a Hurricane.

well said haha some people just have no clue.

[Southside]

Learn to spell, we stopped a Genocide. End of, I don't really care about what you claim to be going on, visit the UN and see what they say, we stopped a genocide, you didn't

Question..Was Libya a legit attack? NATO has the right to defend itself(its members), Libya didnt attack members of NATO. NATO bombs civilian targets, lets go back to Libya for a second. A TV station was bombed killing multiple civilians, that was a military target? Come on...

[Harry Smith]

Question..Was Libya a legit attack? NATO has the right to defend itself(its members), Libya didnt attack members of NATO. NATO bombs civilian targets, lets go back to Libya for a second. A TV station was bombed killing multiple civilians, that was a military target? Come on...

Once again you seem to be not understanding international Diplomacy, we had a UN Resolution to enforce a no-fly zone and protect Rebels on the ground, we managed to get rid of a Dictator. It wasn't even a NATO lead Mission, each country e.g France US and Britain all had separate Missions. It wasn't an attack by NATO, there was no deceleration of war- we were simply carrying out the United Nations Restitution

[tovaris]

Once again you seem to be not understanding international Diplomacy, we had a UN Resolution to enforce a no-fly zone and protect Rebels on the ground, we managed to get rid of a Dictator. It wasn't even a NATO lead Mission, each country e.g France US and Britain all had separate Missions. It wasn't an attack by NATO, there was no deceleration of war- we were simply carrying out the United Nations Restitution

The Lybian civil was ras their war not to be meddled in ba others, no mather wtat the UN said. By those actions Lybian sovereignty was vialated it in fact was a war decleration againced Lybia. If only the rebels and Gadafi could have agred to destroy theyr foreighn enymy and then kill echother.
No country should atack another for any internal reson in that country

[Southside]

Once again you seem to be not understanding international Diplomacy, we had a UN Resolution to enforce a no-fly zone and protect Rebels on the ground, we managed to get rid of a Dictator. It wasn't even a NATO lead Mission, each country e.g France US and Britain all had separate Missions. It wasn't an attack by NATO, there was no deceleration of war- we were simply carrying out the United Nations Restitution

Under this "dictator", Libya had the highest GDP in Africa and was a prosperous nation. Free education for all citizens, also less people lived belowed the poverty line than in the Netherlands. I hate how the Western Media portrrays people like Ghaddafi and Hugo Chavez as tyrants or terrorist, though infact they are doing a lot of good for their country, sure they might be dictators but these countrys are thriving.

[britishboy]

Under this "dictator", Libya had the highest GDP in Africa and was a prosperous nation. Free education for all citizens, also less people lived belowed the poverty line than in the Netherlands. I hate how the Western Media portrrays people like Ghaddafi and Hugo Chavez as tyrants or terrorist, though infact they are doing a lot of good for their country, sure they might be dictators but these countrys are thriving.

really being tortured is ok? and it can't be that good HIS OWN PEOPLE kicked him out and killed him

[Harry Smith]

Under this "dictator", Libya had the highest GDP in Africa and was a prosperous nation. Free education for all citizens, also less people lived belowed the poverty line than in the Netherlands. I hate how the Western Media portrrays people like Ghaddafi and Hugo Chavez as tyrants or terrorist, though infact they are doing a lot of good for their country, sure they might be dictators but these countrys are thriving.

You seem to be forgetting the state terrorism, the murders, the corruption, the rape of his own body guards and the fact that he was never voted into office

[Southside]

really being tortured is ok? and it can't be that good HIS OWN PEOPLE kicked him out and killed him

Rebels were Al-Qaeda and Islamic jihadist groups...He was a good dictator..

[Southside]

You seem to be forgetting the state terrorism, the murders, the corruption, the rape of his own body guards and the fact that he was never voted into office

US has done everything except the raping body guards and voting thing.

[Harry Smith]

US has done everything except the raping body guards and voting thing.

haha, so your saying the United States government have murdered there own citizens?

[britishboy]

Rebels were Al-Qaeda and Islamic jihadist groups...He was a good dictator..

then why did his own people kill him?

[Southside]

then why did his own people kill him?

Ok forget the civil war, lets talk about 1977-late 2000's, wasnt Libya pretty prosperous?

[Southside]

haha, so your saying the United States government have murdered there own citizens?

Yeah..9/11?

[Harry Smith]

Ok forget the civil war, lets talk about 1977-late 2000's, wasnt Libya pretty prosperous?

Nope, they funded the IRA and other terrorism groups causing them to face a range of sanctions. Gaddafi still tortured or killed anyone who disagreed with him. You can't use economic stats to show a that a country was a social success

[Southside]

Nope, they funded the IRA and other terrorism groups causing them to face a range of sanctions. Gaddafi still tortured or killed anyone who disagreed with him. You can't use economic stats to show a that a country was a social success

What is your definition of a successful country? Western backed? I judge them on economic stats..

[Harry Smith]

What is your definition of a successful country? Western backed? I judge them on economic stats..

A successful country for me is one with both national economic success and freedom for the people living in it, so what if LIbya was rich. Doesn't the fact that his own people rose up show that Gaddafi was hated?

[britishboy]

A successful country for me is one with both national economic success and freedom for the people living in it, so what if LIbya was rich. Doesn't the fact that his own people rose up show that Gaddafi was hated?

same:) well said that's why I think the western world countries are the best

[Stronk Serb]

A successful country for me is one with both national economic success and freedom for the people living in it, so what if LIbya was rich. Doesn't the fact that his own people rose up show that Gaddafi was hated?



Wasn't it the Al-Qaeda who started the rebellion? Why did the Americans invade Irak? While Saddam was on rule, women had equal rights as the men, they were as free as western women. Now teenage girls are getting burned in a pit for having a boyfriend.

[Left Now]

Who said you about equal rights during saddam reign?
Saddam himself was a real anti-woman active person...Didn't you hear about what he did in Kurdistan to only children and women?i mean after toxin bombings and massacre in Iran..
By all respects i know for you, please do not speak about what you do not know about...

[Ace of Spades]

Yeah..9/11?

You're joking, right? You can't possibly believe that.

[Harry Smith]

Wasn't it the Al-Qaeda who started the rebellion? Why did the Americans invade Irak? While Saddam was on rule, women had equal rights as the men, they were as free as western women. Now teenage girls are getting burned in a pit for having a boyfriend.

That's complete bulsshit, Saddam had used chemical weapons on his own people, he tortured and killed anyone who disagreed with him, people were snatched off the streets. Iraq was not at all free back then...

[TheBigUnit]

That being said, a lot of iraqis prefer his rule over their current situatuion, same in syria where most prefer assad over the rebels

[britishboy]

That being said, a lot of iraqis prefer his rule over their current situatuion, same in syria where most prefer assad over the rebels

doesn't look like that most have either left the country or are trying to kill him. it now looks like he used chemical weapons on his own people

[Stronk Serb]

That's complete bulsshit, Saddam had used chemical weapons on his own people, he tortured and killed anyone who disagreed with him, people were snatched off the streets. Iraq was not at all western-like.


It appears I have misplaced the situation in Iraq with the one in Iran. Broken, what was the situation with the Shah on rule, before Homeini came?

[Southside]

You're joking, right? You can't possibly believe that.

Answer these...

1. Why was Nano-Thermite(Military Grade Explosive) particles found in the Ground Zero dust?

2. How did WTC7 collaspe? It wasnt hit by any planes...

3. Why was the hole in the Pentagon smaller than the Plane that hit it?

[Ace of Spades]

Answer these...

1. Why was Nano-Thermite(Military Grade Explosive) particles found in the Ground Zero dust?

2. How did WTC7 collaspe? It wasnt hit by any planes...

3. Why was the hole in the Pentagon smaller than the Plane that hit it?

1. Provide credible and accurate sources to support your claim.
2. You do know that the Pentagon is built into a large dip in the ground right?
3. The idea that the President, his staff, the Joint Chiefs, military officers, the CIA, and others all plotted and carried out a plan to fool the U.S. into supporting the invasion into Iraq, is just plain retarded.

[Harry Smith]

1. Provide credible and accurate sources to support your claim.
2. You do know that the Pentagon is built into a large dip in the ground right?
3. The idea that the President, his staff, the Joint Chiefs, military officers, the CIA, and others all plotted and carried out a plan to fool the U.S. into supporting the invasion into Iraq, is just plain retarded.

This is golden, pretty much sums up my view on 9/11. Why would they intact some massive grand plan just so they could invade a country 2 years later...

[TheBigUnit]

doesn't look like that most have either left the country or are trying to kill him. it now looks like he used chemical weapons on his own people
Comrade Mike (he posted below you) basically explain why

Answer these...

1. Why was Nano-Thermite(Military Grade Explosive) particles found in the Ground Zero dust?

2. How did WTC7 collaspe? It wasnt hit by any planes...

3. Why was the hole in the Pentagon smaller than the Plane that hit it?

Your kidding right? First of all, Of all the conspiracy stories I heard about 9/11 I never heard thermite being used which is a pretty big deal considering by saying thermite was found majority of conspiracy believers would shout that out loud bc thermite is so powerful,
Really what would be the point of destroying WTC7?
Don't tell me you got all this information from some bozo on youtube

[Harry Smith]

The chemical weapons thing is bull. That is falsified intelligence. The Islamic extremist Sheriat law was substituted with a more western-like law when Saddam rose to power. Women had equal rights, they could dress however they wanted, they could work alongside men. Many people wish his rule back, and are cursing the Americans for killing him. Would a people want to be killed? No, so why do they wish his rule back? The story is full of holes. Saddam did have chemical weapons, they were made using Yugoslavian technology, but he disarmed and terminated those chemical weapons before the Gulf wars, so the US could not find anything so they made falsified intelligence.

There is a difference between falsified intelligence and wrong intelligence. Saddam was a paranoid dictator, he used chemical weapons on his own people, watched his own son kill his valet with a carving knife, had woman snatched off the street, tortured opponents and imprisoned anyone he liked. He was brutal

[they killed kenny]

So genocide on genocide is justifiable? Though I forgot, its only OK when NATO kills civilians, soon as some dictator or warlord does it's a big outcry. NATO is a war machine, you make it seem like NATO is some peace organization.

North Atlantic Treaty Organization. they are peacekeeper, when they keep peace. if there is no peace, they bring it.

[they killed kenny]

the bosnian genocide was between orthodox serbs, and muslim turks, all living in bosnia. it was the serb revenge for a genocide 100 years earlier

[Southside]

This is golden, pretty much sums up my view on 9/11. Why would they intact some massive grand plan just so they could invade a country 2 years later...

So the American Public would support the Middle-East wars, 9/11 became somewhat of a rally cry just like Pearl Harbor did during WW2. I wouldnt consider myself a "truther" I just think its something that the gov. is hiding, but the stuff im putting out there are cold hard facts. Nano Thermite(Military Grade Explosive) particles were found in the Ground Zero dust. The Pentagon Hole was smaller than the plane that hit it. Like i've said in the past to you, it's some ridiculous theories like "No people were inside the World Trade Centers" or "The Twin Towers were holograms" which are disgusting and I dont believe in. The 3 theories/facts I've just presented are cold hard facts.
Also on your Saddam Chemical weapons comment, most of his chemical weapons stock were destroyed during the 90's after the Gulf War. Only thing close to chemical weapons that were found in Iraq during the 03' invasion were a few badly corroded artillery shells filled with mustard gas that buried in the desert that werent even useable. Saddam was brutal but he kept Iraq under control, everytime I turn on the news I hear "80 killed in car bomb attacks in Iraq" or "10 killed in militant shootout in Iraq". Syria was stable before the uprising, dictators are brutal sometimes, but I rather have a country that is controlled with brutal force than a country that is a regional timebomb waiting to explode.

[they killed kenny]

they work together atacking inosents and civilians when they have no right


i dont know what you have heard, nato does not attack innocent civilians. They target rebels.

Exactly read it especaly the first part about individual defence in case of an atack. And also the very first paragraf of that particulare document sais the un will protect against war not tell nato to wage it for no reason.

double post merged~ red velvet

nato

[TheBigUnit]

So the American Public would support the Middle-East wars, 9/11 became somewhat of a rally cry just like Pearl Harbor did during WW2. I wouldnt consider myself a "truther" I just think its something that the gov. is hiding, but the stuff im putting out there are cold hard facts. Nano Thermite(Military Grade Explosive) particles were found in the Ground Zero dust. The Pentagon Hole was smaller than the plane that hit it...

I mean someone knows something the everyday american doesn't, but does it make it a full fledged conspiracy? Don't you think more people would be talking about the thermite? Btw the plane was a 757 I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, but the 757 is a pretty narrow plane

[they killed kenny]

Answer these...

1. Why was Nano-Thermite(Military Grade Explosive) particles found in the Ground Zero dust?

2. How did WTC7 collaspe? It wasnt hit by any planes...

3. Why was the hole in the Pentagon smaller than the Plane that hit it?

Thermite is not an explosive, it is a pyrotechnic excellerant. it burns at an incrediby high temurature, but does not explode

[Southside]

North Atlantic Treaty Organization. they are peacekeeper, when they keep peace. if there is no peace, they bring it.

NATO bombed a TV station in Libya during the 2011 NATO operations killing multiple civilians, thats peacekeeping? Come on....

[Ace of Spades]

NATO bombed a TV station in Libya during the 2011 NATO operations killing multiple civilians, thats peacekeeping? Come on....

Do you expect every single last operation to go off without a hitch? Shit happens.

[Stronk Serb]

So the American Public would support the Middle-East wars, 9/11 became somewhat of a rally cry just like Pearl Harbor did during WW2. I wouldnt consider myself a "truther" I just think its something that the gov. is hiding, but the stuff im putting out there are cold hard facts. Nano Thermite(Military Grade Explosive) particles were found in the Ground Zero dust. The Pentagon Hole was smaller than the plane that hit it. Like i've said in the past to you, it's some ridiculous theories like "No people were inside the World Trade Centers" or "The Twin Towers were holograms" which are disgusting and I dont believe in. The 3 theories/facts I've just presented are cold hard facts.
Also on your Saddam Chemical weapons comment, most of his chemical weapons stock were destroyed during the 90's after the Gulf War. Only thing close to chemical weapons that were found in Iraq during the 03' invasion were a few badly corroded artillery shells filled with mustard gas that buried in the desert that werent even useable. Saddam was brutal but he kept Iraq under control, everytime I turn on the news I hear "80 killed in car bomb attacks in Iraq" or "10 killed in militant shootout in Iraq". Syria was stable before the uprising, dictators are brutal sometimes, but I rather have a country that is controlled with brutal force than a country that is a regional timebomb waiting to explode.


I would rather live under strict rule then under a rule where I could get easily killed everyday. Saddam would not kill obedient citizens. You are saying (Harry) that Saddam was commiting genocide. So are the US or NATO country troops (lost track). But no one is against it. If the US would leave Iraq, car bomb explosions and shootouts would pribably cease.

[Stronk Serb]

Do you expect every single last operation to go off without a hitch? Shit happens.



Just like it did on Kosovo were civilians on both sides were killed, bridges destroyed while civilians were crossing. National television building, Dragisa Misovic hospital, they all took direct hits and there were civilian casualties. There were no troops in the television building. The only troops in the hospital were the ones which were helping evacuate the hospital in case of a bombing raid. A tobacco factory in Nis was hit, directly.

[britishboy]

IN EVERYWAR CIVILIANS DIE, ITS UNAVOIDABLE. as ace of spades said, SHOT HAPPENS:P

[Stronk Serb]

IN EVERYWAR CIVILIANS DIE, ITS UNAVOIDABLE. as ace of spades said, SHIT HAPPENS:P

Yes, especially when deliberately targeting civilian targets.

[Harry Smith]

I would rather live under strict rule then under a rule where I could get easily killed everyday. Saddam would not kill obedient citizens. You are saying (Harry) that Saddam was commiting genocide. So are the US or NATO country troops (lost track). But no one is against it. If the US would leave Iraq, car bomb explosions and shootouts would pribably cease.

Obedient? so as long as you did what he said you would be fine... that's called Dictatorship. NATO has not committed genocide, but please go to the Hague with that and try and charge them with genocide without any evidence. Saddam used Chemical weapons on the Kurd regions, he wanted to get rid of them

[britishboy]

source google:
Iraq under Saddam Hussein
was known for its severe
violations of human rights.
Secret police, torture, mass
murder , rape , deportations,
forced disappearances,
assassinations, chemical
warfare, and the destruction
of southern Iraq's marshes
were some of the methods
the country's Ba'athist
government used to
maintain control. The total
number of deaths related to
torture and murder during
this period are unknown.
Human Rights Watch and
Amnesty International
issued regular reports of
widespread imprisonment
and torture.

NATO does not kill anyone unless nessacery

[Stronk Serb]

Obedient? so as long as you did what he said you would be fine... that's called Dictatorship. NATO has not committed genocide, but please go to the Hague with that and try and charge them with genocide without any evidence. Saddam used Chemical weapons on the Kurd regions, he wanted to get rid of them


Actually, it is quite easy for the US to bail out. They would just say that the civilians killed were there at the wrong time. If the US would evac, car bombs, and shootouts would stop, and Iraq population would not have to worry about dying every day.

[Harry Smith]

Actually, it is quite easy for the US to bail out. They would just say that the civilians killed were there at the wrong time. If the US would evac, car bombs, and shootouts would stop, and Iraq population would not have to worry about dying every day.

The majority of the battles are between the different islamic groups, and the US and UK forces have pulled out the region,we don't have that many combat forces left. It's mostly just Private groups helping rebuild it

[britishboy]

The majority of the battles are between the different islamic groups, and the US and UK forces have pulled out the region,we don't have that many combat forces left. It's mostly just Private groups helping rebuild it

everyone knows that just ignore him he's a annoying troll

[Stronk Serb]

everyone knows that just ignore him he's a annoying troll

Do you even know what a troll is? I am not trolling.

[Stronk Serb]

The majority of the battles are between the different islamic groups, and the US and UK forces have pulled out the region,we don't have that many combat forces left. It's mostly just Private groups helping rebuild it



As I reccall, after Obama got his peace award, he sent 90000 more troops. The Americans have more presence then the UK, IDK what happened with those troops afterwards

[Abigballofdust]

Watc the movie "The Weight if Chains" it is from the Serbian and Eastern side of the story, which is by me far more rational.
The Weight of Chains is very serbocentric.
While some parts may be true, it is to be taken with a big pinch of salt.

And there's no proof in saying Eastern news should be trusted more than Western.
They're both essentially propaganda. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

[Southside]

Do you expect every single last operation to go off without a hitch? Shit happens.

No they DELIBERATELY bombed the Libya State Televison to stop "propaganda", thats a military target? Think of the people who were inside, journalist, cameramen, anchors, those are military threats? Some civilian deaths are avoidable, I understand the casualties of war, but common sense, you got 1 tank on a street that's in a populated area, you dont go in and carpet bomb the whole block just to get one tank. We have helicopters and ground attack aircraft such as the A-10 that can fly low and just get the intended target without damaging surrounding buildings. This is the age of "smart" warfare with lazer guided bombs and satellite guided bombs, you can be thousands of miles away in a air conditioned building somewhere in Virigina or D.C. and score a direct hit on a target in Afghanistan. Come on...

[they killed kenny]

NATO bombed a TV station in Libya during the 2011 NATO operations killing multiple civilians, thats peacekeeping? Come on....

No, that is creatiing peace.

[Harry Smith]

No they DELIBERATELY bombed the Libya State Televison to stop "propaganda", thats a military target? Think of the people who were inside, journalist, cameramen, anchors, those are military threats? Some civilian deaths are avoidable, I understand the casualties of war, but common sense, you got 1 tank on a street that's in a populated area, you dont go in and carpet bomb the whole block just to get one tank. We have helicopters and ground attack aircraft such as the A-10 that can fly low and just get the intended target without damaging surrounding buildings. This is the age of "smart" warfare with lazer guided bombs and satellite guided bombs, you can be thousands of miles away in a air conditioned building somewhere in Virigina or D.C. and score a direct hit on a target in Afghanistan. Come on...

You really don't understand how weapons work, they are not always 100% accurate, they never will be

[Southside]

You really don't understand how weapons work, they are not always 100% accurate, they never will be

NATO stated that the Libyan TV station was the target, so it's not a question of "100% accurate". They bombed a TV station on purpose...

[Harry Smith]

NATO stated that the Libyan TV station was the target, so it's not a question of "100% accurate". They bombed a TV station on purpose...

If the TV station emitted state propaganda which it would, and it is in turn part of the Command and Control section of the Libyan regime then we have every right to bomb it. It was part of the enemy war machine.

Also do you have a source for this?

[Southside]

If the TV station emitted state propaganda which it would, and it is in turn part of the Command and Control section of the Libyan regime then we have every right to bomb it. It was part of the enemy war machine.

Also do you have a source for this?

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=39255&

Since your a big UN & NATO supporter, in a UN Security Council 1738, the UN condemns attack on journalist and media workers. Isnt that a violation by NATO?

[tovaris]

If the TV station emitted state propaganda which it would, and it is in turn part of the Command and Control section of the Libyan regime then we have every right to bomb it. It was part of the enemy war machine.

Also do you have a source for this?

How about fredom of pres you cant bomb them just because you dont like what tzey are transmitimg!
Libian war machine how about NATO war machine should all the pro NATO TV stations be bombed for transmiting NATO propaganda?

[Harry Smith]

How about fredom of pres you cant bomb them just because you dont like what tzey are transmitimg!
Libian war machine how about NATO war machine should all the pro NATO TV stations be bombed for transmiting NATO propaganda?

Freedom of the press is a national right, it is something which is removed during Military occupation. NATO propaganda?

This is the prime reason why I'm getting sick of this website, it's turned into about 5 people from eastern Europe believing that they are the next messiah and that every single thing the west have ever done has been immoral.

They are always innocent causalities in war, we removed an dictator and gave freedom to the people of Libya. End of

[Harry Smith]

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=39255&

Since your a big UN & NATO supporter, in a UN Security Council 1738, the UN condemns attack on journalist and media workers. Isnt that a violation by NATO?

The Council also deplored incitement to violence in the media, further stating that it would take further action against media broadcasts inciting genocide, crimes against humanity and violations of international humanitarian law.

An extract... also do you even have a reliable source to prove that NATO bombed this TV station or like all your other points is it just a stab in a dark?

[tovaris]

Freedom of the press is a national right, it is something which is removed during Military occupation. NATO propaganda?

This is the prime reason why I'm getting sick of this website, it's turned into about 5 people from eastern Europe believing that they are the next messiah and that every single thing the west have ever done has been immoral.

They are always innocent causalities in war, we removed an dictator and gave freedom to the people of Libya. End of

I am not from eastern Europe, check your geography Dražkoše are in ... Europe.
The dictator was to be removed by the nation not foreign powers.

Exactly NATO propaganda (Definition of propaganda
noun
1 [mass noun] information used to promote a political cause or point of view (source: http://oxforddictionaries.com/)

[Stronk Serb]

I am not from estern evrope.
The dictator was to be removed by the nation not foreign powers.

Agreed.