What is your opinion on gay marriage?

[naglfari]

I understand, but I explained this in the comment in response to another who stated the opposite, that neither can be natural.

This is a long answer... If you literally hate, not only dislike but hate my response, then you should not have asked, my fair warning to you, okay bring on the critique.

Why is heterosexuality natural and normal whilst homosexuality is unnatural and immoral rather than amoral?

Firstly, the Earth's majority of people identity as heterosexual, well over 90%, that should say something alone as to which is more common.
Secondly, in nature, what do animals mate with? Animals mate with the opposite sex as do humans.
Thirdly, we are all born heterosexual, it's preprogrammed at birth due to natural causes, as to why during puberty males seek females and vice versa. Heterosexual is basic in science too, it is required for procreation as well as how nature just happens to work.


Homosexuality doesn't occur naturally regardless of what others say and this time animals cannot be used as an example. Animals are the way humans should be, most mate for life, and with one of the opposite sex. The only time animals show homo erotic behavior is during times of dominance or lack of animals of the opposite sex, the animal never stays with homosexual tendencies, and no, your dog humping another dog of the same sex does not count. Why can't animals be an example to homosexual behavior? Animals have no free will. The will to pick and the knowledge thereof to discern a sexual practice for life.

Sexuality can be described many ways, but when it is deviant from the norm like homosexuality it is either induced by trauma, choice, or taught as norm and therefore played out.
Not very long ago, homosexuality was deemed as a mental illness until around the turn of the century when the battle of rights switched from race and gender which cannot be chosen to sexuality, more specifically homosexuality which affects all races and both genders yet is by lifestyle choice. A study has even shown the brains of homosexuals to be different both structurally and chemically. As for this study I disagree, we can control how we are, some have brains similar to that of psychopaths, they are not always going to be killers later. Finally aside from all of this scientific to secular stuff, my belief on the matter also goes to personal endeavors, I myself see homosexuality and bisexuality as either the effects of confusion, traumatic ordeals, or learned habits which can be broken and cured. I also find it disgusting regardless of genders involved. Plus, my faith also speaks out against homosexuality, never the homosexual.

I can tolerate homosexuals, bisexuals, etcetera, but in my personal opinion I disagree with their lifestlye as they may do to mine. I feel we can all be equals even though no two people are 100% equal by prowess, body, status, faith, etcetera. I see no problem with two of one gender living together behind closed doors, but I do not agree with calling it gay marriage. Gay used to mean vibrant and happy, homosexuals are only half of that, vibrant at least. Also I know two people who were formally in the LGBT lifestyle before committing to Christ and they regretted their lifestyle horribly. Some say we are taught to be straight, how come when that is natural and the majority?

That enough for you? I feel I left something out... Oh that's right, I do not hate anyone homosexual, in support of the LGBT or one who is confused, the mentioned of Questioning in the new LGBTQ leads to where it must be a choice in the long run anyway. I have my disagreements with people but I never hate them or name call regardless of what they do to me. I attended a Middle School that was very pro-gay, believe it or not, I didn't get the hormone thing since I was too busy focusing in class and being the artist in my classes. This is odd to me; in my Middle School for some reason, anyone Christian was labled as "odd," "deviant," and, "disgusting," by a large percentage of the school, that percentage was LBGT students. Yes, the middle school I went to was predominantly gay, bi, and anti-theistic. No one mentioned religion accept to others like them in private, when heard about, oh no, game over. A friend and I were bullied for two things, being Christian and straight whilst supporting traditional marriage. Call it crazy? I do too, but I never got mad at the kids, they are off doing great things I hope.

Lastly, my definition of marriage: a union sacred or political between a man and a woman that is meant to be until death from love or arrangement, unless rushed into too quickly and thus false.

Anything else? I typed a lot, this should answer things. Need anything I did not mention or have a question, please do not hesitate to ask, bye and have a blessed night! If you wish to respond, please be civil, honest, obedient and all the other good stuff. Okay, Au revoir!

90% of the world is right handed that doesn't mean left handed people are unnatural.

you stupid bigot twat.

[Lovelife090994]

90% of the world is right handed that doesn't mean left handed people are unnatural.

you stupid bigot twat.

Name calling never helps dearie.

[Lovelife090994]

You started off by saying that you don't dislike homosexuals, then your closing statements clearly show that you view homosexuals as immoral perverts. This seems contradictory to your beginning statements.

T'is true, homosexual behavoir is unnatural and ugly, I said why earlier.

[johnsmith1]

This is getting to be one heck of a disagreement. I'm not religeous, and won't pretend to knwo everything in the bible. There was an argument in Eurpoe a few years ago (in which even the pope was questioned) where there were requests for gay preists to be admithed to the catholic church, and it nearly split the church in two. I also don't think people choose to be gay. There was a study on peadophelia (men who liked kids, yes I know this is wrong, and no I'm not saying gay people are peadofiles), in which they put a measuring device to the penis, and measured its size in relation to when the person is shown pictures, and the reaction to them. For all the fact these people knew logically it was wrong, they only got an erection (picked up in measurements) to pics of kids. I would suspect straight people (to pics of women) and gays (to pics of males) would produce the expected results. Basically for all we can logically argue things, we cannot easily govern, or change the way we feel. With the best will in the world, if you are sexually aroused by someone of the same sex, and not of the opposite sex, there is no easy way to change that, whatever you believe. In a perfect world, it would be nice to have happy couples and happy kids, but this is not the case. Also in terms of marrige, theres marrige in the eyes of the law, and marrige in the eyes of the church. In the UK when you marry in a registry office, you sign a bit of paper, and that gives you all your legal rights as a couple. If you marry in a church, you do it in the eyes of God, bit then still have to sign the same bit of paper to have the legal rights as a couple. Weather the church want's to stop gay marriges in churches is one thing, but from a legal point of view, I have no issues with a registry marrage. In my eyes, the most important part is making a commitment to my future partner for her (or him!) in the eyes of the law, not God

[Ace of Spades]

T'is true, homosexual behavoir is unnatural and ugly, I said why earlier.

You can believe what you want, just keep your bigotry to yourself and don't try to legislate your beliefs.

[Lovelife090994]

You can believe what you want, just keep your bigotry to yourself and don't try to legislate your beliefs.

Now, now, calm down! You are calling me a bigot when you legislated your hate by disagreeing with me? Who's the bigger bogot here? Your hatred to me is by my beliefs which many share. Not everyone supports homosexuality. If you are a homosexual, fine by me, I just don't like that lifestyle. Dislike, disagreement, disapproval, doesn't equal hatred, or bigotry. You are the bigot for wanting others to be tolerant of homosexuals and not tolerant of anyone different. I can tolerate homosexuals but I can't accept their ways, d'accord?

[Ace of Spades]

Now, now, calm down! You are calling me a bigot when you legislated your hate by disagreeing with me? Who's the bigger bogot here? Your hatred to me is by my beliefs which many share. Not everyone supports homosexuality. If you are a homosexual, fine by me, I just don't like that lifestyle. Dislike, disagreement, disapproval, doesn't equal hatred, or bigotry. You are the bigot for wanting others to be tolerant of homosexuals and not tolerant of anyone different. I can tolerate homosexuals but I can't accept their ways, d'accord?

How am I legislating hate? The only legislation I want passed is legislation to bring equal rights and opportunities to all people. You are the prejudiced one. You support the oppression of an already oppressed group. I support your right to have different beliefs, but don't you dare try to prevent others from living their lives. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is in the US Constitution to be guaranteed to every American regardless of who or what they are.

[Lovelife090994]

How am I legislating hate? The only legislation I want passed is legislation to bring equal rights and opportunities to all people. You are the prejudiced one. You support the oppression of an already oppressed group. I support your right to have different beliefs, but don't you dare try to prevent others from living their lives. The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is in the US Constitution to be guaranteed to every American regardless of who or what they are.

I don't protest in the streets dearie. I am not an oppressor, I am not a Stalin, I have no political power. I am not hating anyone, when will you get that? So I can disagree but I can't with you? You are oppressing. Oppressing my beliefs and right to have an opinion. I am not stopping people from being homosexual. I love the sinner, hate the sin. I support traditional marriage which I want one day. And pursuit of happiness was to be property earlier, I learned that in government. Pursuit of happiness is fine until it is perverse and protestant, (not the church, that's a word). And if I did protest would you murder me for my thoughts? Go ahead, I'd die a martyr. Why so extreme? They are my beliefs and are rooted in me, this debate changes nothing. I admire your ability to turn a phrase and your way to keep at it, but must we? I could care less what others think of me, I have heard things from both sides of the issue. At least you use reason but reason behind name calling, accusation, and hatred is reasonless.

[Ace of Spades]

I don't protest in the streets dearie. I am not an oppressor, I am not a Stalin, I have no political power. I am not hating anyone, when will you get that? So I can disagree but I can't with you? You are oppressing. Oppressing my beliefs and right to have an opinion. I am not stopping people from being homosexual. I love the sinner, hate the sin. I support traditional marriage which I want one day. And pursuit of happiness was to be property earlier, I learned that in government. Pursuit of happiness is fine until it is perverse and protestant, (not the church, that's a word). And if I did protest would you murder me for my thoughts? Go ahead, I'd die a martyr. Why so extreme? They are my beliefs and are rooted in me, this debate changes nothing.

You would die a fool.
I am not oppressing your oppressive beliefs. I stated earlier that I support your right to disagree with anybody. If you did decide to protest in public, I would certainly not like it, but as long as you were peaceful and non-invasive and did not try to physically prevent someone from living their life, it is your right to protest.
What you perceive as perverse is of no consequence and matters very little to me. I am stating that as soon as you physically try to prevent people from having equal rights or opportunities, either though legislation or force, that is when you have crossed the line.

P.s. drop the pretentious attitude.

[Lovelife090994]

You would die a fool.
I am not oppressing your oppressive beliefs. I stated earlier that I support your right to disagree with anybody. If you did decide to protest in public, I would certainly not like it, but as long as you were peaceful and non-invasive and did not try to physically prevent someone from living their life, it is your right to protest.
What you perceive as perverse is of no consequence and matters very little to me. I am stating that as soon as you physically try to prevent people from having equal rights or opportunities, either though legislation or force, that is when you have crossed the line.

P.s. drop the pretentious attitude.

P.S. drop the pretentious attitude? You missed half of my post! No literally they was more typed than that. No I am not going to physically protest, which is what by the way? I support you but I agree to disgree. I still see it as perverse, the opposition to homosexuality is a natural emotion; disgust. I see it as something that should be behind closed doors. You on the other hand seem very pretentious to me, and very blatant beyond respect of person even yourself.

And you never answered me. Actually no one has without name calling and hate comments.
What is so bad about me not supporting homosexuality?

[Ace of Spades]

P.S. drop the pretentious attitude? You missed half of my post! No literally they was more typed than that. No I am not going to physically protest, which is what by the way? I support you but I agree to disgree. I still see it as perverse, the opposition to homosexuality is a natural emotion; disgust. I see it as something that should be behind closed doors. You on the other hand seem very pretentious to me, and very blatant beyond respect of person even yourself.

And you never answered me. Actually no one has without name calling and hate comments.
What is so bad about me not supporting homosexuality?

You condemn homosexuality. You are a bigot.
I quoted your post before you edited it.

[Lovelife090994]

You condemn homosexuality. You are a bigot.
I quoted your post before you edited it.

I see. Well, if standing by your beliefs and disagreeing makes me bigted so be it in your eyes. I know who I am. I condemn any sin and anything perverse, you may want to rethink condoning something utterly terrible and unnatural. Besides, homosexual has no gain, not sexually, emotionally, scientifically, morally, or by family relations. All homosexuality does is cause trouble like corruption and it gives disease, breeds hatred and causes frivilous debates as this one, all it does it hurt and pervert. I've seen it first hand, it wasn't pretty. Half of my family is very opposed to homosexuality, we have few females in my family and sadly the few we do have disgraced us by being lesbian in the eyes of my cousins, I agree but it caused quite the scandal, I care not though... I know them not. Point is, you can have your views without me calling you a bigot, and I can have my views, deal? I'm done debating. Nothing left to say, you and me both said our reasons, this debate is over by neutrality. By the way, I'm more neutral to the issue anyway, but I have my reasons. Good day.

[Hunter_Steel]

Nothing left to say, you and me both said our reasons, this debate is over by neutrality. By the way, I'm more neutral to the issue anyway, but I have my reasons. Good day.

See. here's the issue, real neutrality is neither hating nor liking something. The position to not participate in or support any oppressive actions of another being, country, religion, ethnicity, sexuality and planet of origin.

Want a look at real neutrality? Let me bring up an example of a fictional non-existant country that have a complete neutral attitude.

Here is their belief: "We will not attack another nation, nor allow another nation to attack us. We will stay out of any world wide conflicts unless we need to defend our borders which we will to the very last man. We won't interfere in another country's affairs and also will not allow other countries to interfere in our affairs."

Real neutrality means keeping to yourself no matter how much you dislike something. Your neutrality is only partially neutral, but you still openly (A forum is openly speaking) speak against homosexuality. But you don't interfere with it. If you were really neutral, you would keep your opinions to yourself, so do not call yourself neutral in this.

~Hunter

[Lovelife090994]

See. here's the issue, real neutrality is neither hating nor liking something. The position to not participate in or support any oppressive actions of another being, country, religion, ethnicity, sexuality and planet of origin.

Want a look at real neutrality? Let me bring up an example of a fictional non-existant country that have a complete neutral attitude.

Here is their belief: "We will not attack another nation, nor allow another nation to attack us. We will stay out of any world wide conflicts unless we need to defend our borders which we will to the very last man. We won't interfere in another country's affairs and also will not allow other countries to interfere in our affairs."

Real neutrality means keeping to yourself no matter how mItuch you dislike something. Your neutrality is only partially neutral, but you still openly (A forum is openly speaking) speak against homosexuality. But you don't interfere with it. If you were really neutral, you would keep your opinions to yourself, so do not call yourself neutral in this.

~Hunter

It is my right to speak and share an opinion especially when questioned, arged, or insulted. I do not sit quiet to rudeness and intolerance like yours. You do know me, I do not protest, I am neutral, but I'm going to speak my mind when asked and falsely accused. Besides, all you supporters seem to do is insult anyone who speaks different, how terrible.

[Hunter_Steel]

Calling you a bigot is in no way an insult, its stating a fact. I used to be, 3 months ago, Anti LGBT. But now I am Pro LGBT. I changed because I could no longer hate and deny what I am.

~Hunter

[Kochanek]

Check the Bible, Leviticus, Proverbs, Romans, all say that homosexuality is a sin, God's words.

What is the Bible?
No doubt the most relevant book in history!
But really God's words? Or a collection of human-made textes?

Although I am a christ, i believe it is a collection of human-made textes.

Textes, that tell us how to live with each other in harmony.

Textes, that give us advice. For example the order not to eat blood saves lives in a hot country like Israel at a time, when the refridgerator was not yet invented ;-)

And the textes in the Bible tell us how people explained themselves the world in a time, when they didn't have the techniques to recognize the real greatness of god's creation. Nowadays we know, it was not six days of work, but only a big bang God needed to bring all this around us on it's way. So you could say God is even greater than the authors of the Bible could imagine!

What, if we would write a new Genesis? A new first book of the Bible, telling about the big bang, how God made all the laws of nature with only one single finger flicking and in this way he (or she?) caused the whole universe, the stars, the planets and finally us to develop.

I guess, in about 5000 years some people would insist that the new Genesis of 2013 tells the words of God, while others reply that science has already gone further... ;-)

[theatreguy]

Saw this in another thread, and thought it could be useful for Christopher to educate himself and stop being so ignorant (or so deep in denial):

" Scientific and medical understanding is that sexual orientation is not a choice, but rather a complex interplay of biological and environmental factors,[1][3] especially with regard to early uterine environment.[4] While there are those who still hold the view that homosexual activity is "unnatural" or "dysfunctional",[5][6] research has shown that homosexuality is an example of a normal and natural variation in human sexuality and is not in and of itself a source of negative psychological effects. "

-Wikipedia


"Is homosexuality a mental disorder?
No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras."

-http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx


"To be specific, the new theory suggests that homosexuality is caused by epigenetic marks, or “epi-marks,” related to sensitivity to hormones in the womb. These are compounds that sit on DNA and regulate how active, or inactive certain genes are, and also control when during development these genes are most prolific."

-http://healthland.time.com/2012/12/13/new-insight-into-the-epigenetic-roots-of-homosexuality/



(I hope it's okay to cross-quote from one thread to another; and many thanks to Snookers for posting it in the first place!)

[Lovelife090994]

Saw this in another thread, and thought it could be useful for Christopher to educate himself and stop being so ignorant (or so deep in denial):





(I hope it's okay to cross-quote from one thread to another; and many thanks to Snookers for posting it in the first place!)

If all you can do is insult and name call, then you point and argument is null and void by default and corrupt intentions. I am keeping my opinion which is not hate but disagreement. And not long ago homosexuality and all the rest was in the same place as other perverted orientations but deemed as a mental illness until the Civil Rights Era died down to the new Gay Rights debate plaguing the world now.

[Lovelife090994]

Calling you a bigot is in no way an insult, its stating a fact. I used to be, 3 months ago, Anti LGBT. But now I am Pro LGBT. I changed because I could no longer hate and deny what I am.

~Hunter

Which is? What are you? If you changed your opinions so abruptly you never had them in the first place. I stand by my opinions and faith, neither shall change. And look up bigot, back then it was at the height if insults like a disgrace or dishonor. I am not necessarily anti, I do not nor would I protest. If gay rights are so right, why all the hype aand name callings in its name? Why all the new heterophobia?

[Harry Smith]

Which is? What are you? If you changed your opinions so abruptly you never had them in the first place. I stand by my opinions and faith, neither shall change. And look up bigot, back then it was at the height if insults like a disgrace or dishonor. I am not necessarily anti, I do not nor would I protest. If gay rights are so right, why all the hype aand name callings in its name? Why all the new heterophobia?

Your whole argument seems to be based on the fact you believe in god and you describe it as a sin. I hate to tell you but God does not exist

[theatreguy]

If all you can do is insult and name call,

That is NOT all I did. I also provided you with information and links so that you might take your head out of your ass and educate yourself. But you ignored that, and instead focused on the subjective part.

Really, I think you're just trolling now.

[Vonn]

>2013
>bible

I swear to God.

[Lovelife090994]

Your whole argument seems to be based on the fact you believe in god and you describe it as a sin. I hate to tell you but God does not exist

I hate to tell you, truly, hate, you cannot disprove God and you do not know. I have seen God's works and am saved and born again. I will keep you in prayer.

[Lovelife090994]

That is NOT all I did. I also provided you with information and links so that you might take your head out of your ass and educate yourself. But you ignored that, and instead focused on the subjective part.

Really, I think you're just trolling now.

Trolling accusation from the trolling one? Priceless. All of this because I support traditional marriage and disagree with homosexuality which I can do.

[Lovelife090994]

Your whole argument seems to be based on the fact you believe in god and you describe it as a sin. I hate to tell you but God does not exist

I noticed a pattern, most homosexuals are fervent antitheistic atheists who hate God and Christians, sad really.

[Vonn]

I hate to tell you, truly, hate, you cannot disprove God and you do not know. I have seen God's works and am saved and born again. I will keep you in prayer.

And I truly hate to tell you, it goes both ways. (I do not actually hate to tell you this.) God's existence cannot be proven and you will never know. There is literally no point to arguing this so we may as well drop it, as far as arguing is concerned.

I noticed a pattern, most homosexuals are fervent antitheistic atheists who hate God and Christians, sad really.

How presumptuous of you.

For the record, what we (or at least I) hate is how shameless some Christians can be when it comes to enforcing their opinions on everybody. Your religion isn't the only one nor is it guaranteed to be the correct one, so please stop acting so superior.

[Lovelife090994]

And I truly hate to tell you, it goes both ways. (I do not actually hate to tell you this.) God's existence cannot be proven and you will never know. There is literally no point to arguing this so we may as well drop it, as far as arguing is concerned.



How presumptuous of you.

For the record, what we (or at least I) hate is how shameless some Christians can be when it comes to enforcing their opinions on everybody. Your religion isn't the only one nor is it guaranteed to be the correct one, so please stop acting so superior.

Fine, forgive me, but if anyone tries to test me or messes with something I said, I will gladly reply. And although presumptuous it is partially true. Many homosexuals can not stand Christians and many are literally anti-theistic, not just anti-religion, but literal antis to anything Christian. You can easily reverse this but Christians doing the opposite are not acting true to their um, supposed faith. Either way, you can't tell me you have not noticed this?

[theatreguy]

If Christians weren't so damned judgmental we wouldn't hate them. Make sense?

[teen.jpg]

If Christians weren't so damned judgmental we wouldn't hate them. Make sense?

I hate to agree with a comment like that, but christians aren't known to be very forgiving.

[Lovelife090994]

If Christians weren't so damned judgmental we wouldn't hate them. Make sense?

Aha, so you admit it, while I do not hate you, you hate me for being what I am. I knew it. That was the point I was trying to make. But it's fine, I have a lot of haters, I only love them though.

[Vonn]

Fine, forgive me, but if anyone tries to test me or messes with something I said, I will gladly reply.

Everybody feels this way. No one will hold it against you. (Unless you're wrong.)

And although presumptuous it is partially true. Many homosexuals can not stand Christians and many are literally anti-theistic, not just anti-religion, but literal antis to anything Christian. You can easily reverse this but Christians doing the opposite are not acting true to their um, supposed faith. Either way, you can't tell me you have not noticed this?

Maybe they can't stand Christians because Christians can be huge jerks? And what makes it worse is that they genuinely believe they are doing the right thing? On top of that, you are making a whole lot of people feel like a steaming shit pile for something that is (a) out of their control; (b) their own business and not yours in any way; and (c) a sin, which (1) may not even exist; and (2) is not something that everyone believes in.

Laws are definitely real. Some laws prevent certain people from enjoying certain rights and that makes them unequal. Then you factor in the harassment and bullying and stereotypes and prejudices and so on and so forth. Some of that bullying pushes non-straight kids to commit suicide. I'm sure you've seen it on the news before. Sounds like fun, right?

It's not that hard to believe that they'd be a little resistant to the idea of God. Religious people taking the (supposed) word of their Lord and using it to keep others from enjoying certain benefits that make them unequal citizens of this country--which wasn't even founded on Christian principals to begin with.

I hope I can at least help you understand how frustrating this is, rather than just yelling at you that your opinion is wrong.

[Lovelife090994]

Everybody feels this way. No one will hold it against you. (Unless you're wrong.)



Maybe they can't stand Christians because Christians can be huge jerks? And what makes it worse is that they genuinely believe they are doing the right thing? On top of that, you are making a whole lot of people feel like a steaming shit pile for something that is (a) out of their control; (b) their own business and not yours in any way; and (c) a sin, which (1) may not even exist; and (2) is not something that everyone believes in.

Laws are definitely real. Some laws prevent certain people from enjoying certain rights and that makes them unequal. Then you factor in the harassment and bullying and stereotypes and prejudices and so on and so forth. Some of that bullying pushes non-straight kids to commit suicide. I'm sure you've seen it on the news before. Sounds like fun, right?

It's not that hard to believe that they'd be a little resistant to the idea of God. Religious people taking the (supposed) word of their Lord and using it to keep others from enjoying certain benefits that make them unequal citizens of this country--which wasn't even founded on Christian principals to begin with.

I hope I can at least help you understand how frustrating this is, rather than just yelling at you that your opinion is wrong.

Well you're talking to someone who's faced bullies from the non-straight as you call it, side of things, and yes I used to be very suicidal, lonely, disturbed, and to the point of where I was almost neurotic, but still I'm here, and no, I'm not changing. I'll apologize for my comments but not for my views.
And you may want to look into your American history old bean, it is lacking.
Plus, many people regardless of sexuality commit suicide, so, not one-sided.
Besides, you just said how I cannot keep my views. Becasue they are mine or not yours? Which is it? Oh well, later!

[Vonn]

Well you're talking to someone who's faced bullies from the non-straight as you call it, side of things, and yes I used to be very suicidal, lonely, disturbed, and to the point of where I was almost neurotic, but still I'm here, and no, I'm not changing. I'll apologize for my comments but not for my views.

That is the best attitude you could possibly have. Thank you. Nobody should bully anybody.

And you may want to look into your American history old bean, it is lacking.

Would you like to provide an actual answer instead of leaving it at a vague "you're wrong"?

Plus, many people regardless of sexuality commit suicide, so, not one-sided.

The way you nonchalantly phrased that implies that it's not a valid reason. Which is it. Sexuality just happens to be one of the major ones, especially recently. (Let's say the last couple of years. I don't watch the news much anymore.)

Besides, you just said how I cannot keep my views. Becasue they are mine or not yours? Which is it? Oh well, later!

I don't really understand your question here.

Later.

[Lovelife090994]

That is the best attitude you could possibly have. Thank you. Nobody should bully anybody.



Would you like to provide an actual answer instead of leaving it at a vague "you're wrong"?



The way you nonchalantly phrased that implies that it's not a valid reason. Which is it. Sexuality just happens to be one of the major ones, especially recently. (Let's say the last couple of years. I don't watch the news much anymore.)



I don't really understand your question here.

Later.


To answer the first part, I was bullied all of my life, thankfully it ended by high school. I was called everything you could be and no, the thing was, I was the bubbly type, not the quiet type. I can say more later if you want... Hmm, I wonder what happened to those bullies... I wonder.... oops, lost in thought!

Second, as sure as I am that you know this, America may not have been founded by Christianity on paper per se, but the first Ameriicans here did want religious freedom, the freedom to worship the message of Christianity in their way, yes a bit scandalous at the time. The Puritans were one such group yet they were a bit one-sided on the views of the church... But I don't want to bore you with the scars.

In the news recently, suicide reports have not been reported where I am as of late, however, I am sure some have taken place. The most recent I remember was by a young teen who was bullied as a just because situation, nothing to do with sexuality at all.

My question. Are my views bad in your eyes because they disagree or because they are not shared by you?

[Vonn]

Sorry, but I cannot read that.

Second, as sure as I am that you know this, America may not have been founded by Christianity on paper per se,

That was my point. It's that piece of paper that gets the final say around here.

but the first Ameriicans here did want religious freedom, the freedom to worship the message of Christianity in their way, yes a bit scandalous at the time. The Puritans were one such group yet they were a bit one-sided on the views of the church... But I don't want to bore you with the scars.

Religious freedom is for everyone. It doesn't matter who wanted it first.

In the news recently, suicide reports have not been reported where I am as of late, however, I am sure some have taken place. The most recent I remember was by a young teen who was bullied as a just because situation, nothing to do with sexuality at all.

In this case, I suppose no news is good news.

My question. Are my views bad in your eyes because they disagree or because they are not shared by you?

Your views are your views and I really don't care about them all that much. It's just that your views happen to be the same views held by people that see no problem with making our lives more difficult than they need to be. Please, disagree with homosexuality all you want. Just don't be a jerk about it (which you haven't been, as far as I can tell from our handful of posts together).

[Bethany]

Second, as sure as I am that you know this, America may not have been founded by Christianity on paper per se, but the first Ameriicans here did want religious freedom, the freedom to worship the message of Christianity in their way, yes a bit scandalous at the time. The Puritans were one such group yet they were a bit one-sided on the views of the church... But I don't want to bore you with the scars.


I can tell from reading this thread that you don't condone homosexuality, but why do you think your religiously-motivated beliefs should be law in a secular country? And, anyways, how does two gay people getting married do ANY harm to you? How does legalizing gay marriage harm you? I'm trying to understand your beliefs. I understand why people oppose homosexuality for religious reasons, but I don't quite understand why people think their personal opinions should dictate other's lives and rights.

[Lovelife090994]

Sorry, but I cannot read that.



That was my point. It's that piece of paper that gets the final say around here.



Religious freedom is for everyone. It doesn't matter who wanted it first.



In this case, I suppose no news is good news.



Your views are your views and I really don't care about them all that much. It's just that your views happen to be the same views held by people that see no problem with making our lives more difficult than they need to be. Please, disagree with homosexuality all you want. Just don't be a jerk about it (which you haven't been, as far as I can tell from our handful of posts together).

Oh no! I had the perfect post and apology and the computer deleted it as I typed! All that hard work :( Oh well, let's begin anew. Okay where was I?
Um, yes, right, well, Snowm8n, I realize how many who have my beliefs and I dare say, my beliefs of Christianity not all are noble or true. Trust me, as a Christian, I have been dogged by some bad Christians, Christians can be the most hateful, judgemental, and self-centered people on the Earth! That is sadly true I regret to say. But one thing any true Christian can say, sorry.

I am asking that you and to EVERYONE ELSE WHICH IS WHY THIS IS CAPS to forgive me for my actions. My heart was sincere, my words were not, my logic was sound, until it was ignored. I am sorry for my hidious display naivete ways and most imbecilic displays previously debuted in this lengthy banter of he said she said. I am truly and sincere sorry. I must make peace, I quote Matthew, "blesses are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God" 5:9. How can I be a beacon of peace if I let my emotions cloud my judgement? Yeah, I agree there too...

To Snowm8n, no hard feelings? Ooh I'm mad now, my previous post before deleted had all the right things to say. I know I'm forgetting something dire!

Oh yes! Snowm8n, you proved my point, that I can disagree without hating someone and wanting them dead and without denying their rights. If a friend of mine had a gay wedding and invited me or better yet had me as a best friend, I'd gladly comply. Just saying. Have a blessed day!

In hindsight someone may reply in minutes... good day then...

[Lovelife090994]

I can tell from reading this thread that you don't condone homosexuality, but why do you think your religiously-motivated beliefs should be law in a secular country? And, anyways, how does two gay people getting married do ANY harm to you? How does legalizing gay marriage harm you? I'm trying to understand your beliefs. I understand why people oppose homosexuality for religious reasons, but I don't quite understand why people think their personal opinions should dictate other's lives and rights.

Have you have met me, you'd see your statement is a little biased and in no way relating to me at all.

[Vonn]

All that apologizing and you went ahead and typed in that shade of blind-me blue again. Sigh.

Oh yes! Snowm8n, you proved my point, that I can disagree without hating someone and wanting them dead and without denying their rights. If a friend of mine had a gay wedding and invited me or better yet had me as a best friend, I'd gladly comply. Just saying. Have a blessed day!

Thank you. It's been fun.

[Ace of Spades]

Oh no! I had the perfect post and apology and the computer deleted it as I typed! All that hard work :( Oh well, let's begin anew. Okay where was I?
Um, yes, right, well, Snowm8n, I realize how many who have my beliefs and I dare say, my beliefs of Christianity not all are noble or true. Trust me, as a Christian, I have been dogged by some bad Christians, Christians can be the most hateful, judgemental, and self-centered people on the Earth! That is sadly true I regret to say. But one thing any true Christian can say, sorry.

I am asking that you and to EVERYONE ELSE WHICH IS WHY THIS IS CAPS to forgive me for my actions. My heart was sincere, my words were not, my logic was sound, until it was ignored. I am sorry for my hidious display naivete ways and most imbecilic displays previously debuted in this lengthy banter of he said she said. I am truly and sincere sorry. I must make peace, I quote Matthew, "blesses are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God" 5:9. How can I be a beacon of peace if I let my emotions cloud my judgement? Yeah, I agree there too...

To Snowm8n, no hard feelings? Ooh I'm mad now, my previous post before deleted had all the right things to say. I know I'm forgetting something dire!

Oh yes! Snowm8n, you proved my point, that I can disagree without hating someone and wanting them dead and without denying their rights. If a friend of mine had a gay wedding and invited me or better yet had me as a best friend, I'd gladly comply. Just saying. Have a blessed day!

In hindsight someone may reply in minutes... good day then...

Part of apologizing is not pushing the blame on other people. A simple "I'm sorry for my behavior" would have been fine. Attempting verbal flamboyancy is overdoing it and it takes away sincerity.

[Lovelife090994]

Part of apologizing is not pushing the blame on other people. A simple "I'm sorry for my behavior" would have been fine. Attempting verbal flamboyancy is overdoing it and it takes away sincerity.

Really? After all that, and you had to say something. Everything was from the heart and sincere. I apologized numorous times. I asked for forgiveness not a critique. But fine, if you don't accept it, oh well. I give up.

[Lovelife090994]

All that apologizing and you went ahead and typed in that shade of blind-me blue again. Sigh.



Thank you. It's been fun.

Thank you for accepting it.

[Ace of Spades]

Really? After all that, and you had to say something. Everything was from the heart and sincere. I apologized numorous times. I asked for forgiveness not a critique. But fine, if you don't accept it, oh well. I give up.

Your apology wasn't legitimate. One more simple apology wouldn't kill you.

[Lovelife090994]

Your apology wasn't legitimate. One more simple apology wouldn't kill you.

How do you know is was not legitimate? What harmed its legitimacy? And yes, fine, I'm sorry for my actions. Will you forgive me? Please say yes!

[Lovelife090994]

Part of apologizing is not pushing the blame on other people. A simple "I'm sorry for my behavior" would have been fine. Attempting verbal flamboyancy is overdoing it and it takes away sincerity.

"Oh no! I had the perfect post and apology and the computer deleted it as I typed! All that hard work :( Oh well, let's begin anew. Okay where was I?
Um, yes, right, well, Snowm8n, I realize how many who have my beliefs and I dare say, my beliefs of Christianity not all are noble or true. Trust me, as a Christian, I have been dogged by some bad Christians, Christians can be the most hateful, judgemental, and self-centered people on the Earth! That is sadly true I regret to say. But one thing any true Christian can say, sorry.

I am asking that you and to EVERYONE ELSE WHICH IS WHY THIS IS CAPS to forgive me for my actions. My heart was sincere, my words were not, my logic was sound, until it was ignored. I am sorry for my hidious display naivete ways and most imbecilic displays previously debuted in this lengthy banter of he said she said. I am truly and sincere sorry. I must make peace, I quote Matthew, "blesses are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God" 5:9. How can I be a beacon of peace if I let my emotions cloud my judgement? Yeah, I agree there too...

To Snowm8n, no hard feelings? Ooh I'm mad now, my previous post before deleted had all the right things to say. I know I'm forgetting something dire!

Oh yes! Snowm8n, you proved my point, that I can disagree without hating someone and wanting them dead and without denying their rights. If a friend of mine had a gay wedding and invited me or better yet had me as a best friend, I'd gladly comply. Just saying. Have a blessed day!

In hindsight someone may reply in minutes... good day then..." Did that mean nothing to you? Just asking, I'm concerned.

[Vonn]

Your apology wasn't legitimate. One more simple apology wouldn't kill you.

Who are you?

[Lovelife090994]

Who are you?

A girl I met earlier, I've been trying to make amends with her for a while... Oh well...

[aline14]

I think, gays is nature's mistake. It's nature against. It's wrong. Do you know, that many self harms made by the gays? Because (if you trust in God) Eve was woman, that is why something other is wrong. How can two gays make happy family? How can they have a baby? Children, who was born in gays' family, grow with injuries. And that isn't only my thoughts.

[Ace of Spades]

I think, gays is nature's mistake. It's nature against. It's wrong. Do you know, that many self harms made by the gays? Because (if you trust in God) Eve was woman, that is why something other is wrong. How can two gays make happy family? How can they have a baby? Children, who was born in gays' family, grow with injuries. And that isn't only my thoughts.

Come back once you have an education.
100% of what you said is grade-A bullshit.
You have no data, no proof, only a poor misconception of something that isn't even reality. You just laid out bullshit claim after bullshit claim while offering nothing to support.
You are a bigot.
According to what you said, being anything other than a woman is wrong.
Take your incoherent bigotry and shove it somewhere else.

[Lovelife090994]

Come back once you have an education.
100% of what you said is grade-A bullshit.
You have no data, no proof, only a poor misconception of something that isn't even reality. You just laid out bullshit claim after bullshit claim while offering nothing to support.
You are a bigot.
According to what you said, being anything other than a woman is wrong.
Take your incoherent bigotry and shove it somewhere else.

I've heard all I need to hear. You argue with anyone who disagrees! Please, stop! You did this to me, do not do this to her.

[Lovelife090994]

I think, gays is nature's mistake. It's nature against. It's wrong. Do you know, that many self harms made by the gays? Because (if you trust in God) Eve was woman, that is why something other is wrong. How can two gays make happy family? How can they have a baby? Children, who was born in gays' family, grow with injuries. And that isn't only my thoughts.

I agree with you, but some people would call you bigoted to think like this.

[Ace of Spades]

I agree with you, but some people would call you bigoted to think like this.

She IS a bigot to believe it. She's a bit more of a bigot than you were. But our argument is done. I will still call out obvious bigotry. She flat out stated that gay people are mistakes and freaks of nature. How is that not hateful???

[teen.jpg]

I think, gays is nature's mistake. It's nature against. It's wrong. Do you know, that many self harms made by the gays? Because (if you trust in God) Eve was woman, that is why something other is wrong. How can two gays make happy family? How can they have a baby? Children, who was born in gays' family, grow with injuries. And that isn't only my thoughts.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[Harry Smith]

I agree with you, but some people would call you bigoted to think like this.

You are a bigot.

You base your views on my life (me being gay) on the fact that an invisible man in the sky told you that it was wrong in a book that he wrote...

[theatreguy]

I thought Christians were supposed to not judge other people?

[johnsmith1]

I think, gays is nature's mistake. It's nature against. It's wrong. Do you know, that many self harms made by the gays? Because (if you trust in God) Eve was woman, that is why something other is wrong. How can two gays make happy family? How can they have a baby? Children, who was born in gays' family, grow with injuries. And that isn't only my thoughts.

Sorry I have to disagree. OK, the real world is FAR from perfect. OK so gay coupls can't physically produce children on their own. Sadly in the real world some straight couples cant either. Sometimes straight couples have children that are sadly ill too (and as an asthiest accept that as a part of just what happens before someone says that God is testing us or whatever). Are there bad gay people? Yes. Are there bad straight people? Yes. But in the real world there also kind and loving people straight or gay. Will gays get the opertunity to marry in a church - probably not. Should they be allowed to marry in the eyes of the law in a registry office, if 2 people love each other then why not? In the UK, 1 in 3 marriges end in divorce, and almost 1/2 kids born now are illigitemate (born outside wedlock). In this real, dark and horrible world, if 2 people want to marry, I'm not one to stop them. If they can adopt and provide a loving home (which some straght couples can't or even worse delebarately don't) do, I would not stop, infact would even encourage it. It may give kids better understanding and tollerance in the world. We have so many other worse things to worry about.

[Lovelife090994]

You are a bigot.

You base your views on my life (me being gay) on the fact that an invisible man in the sky told you that it was wrong in a book that he wrote...
If you are a non believer then you will never understand.

I thought Christians were supposed to not judge other people?

We aren't, but stating what's in the Bible isn't judging.

[Lovelife090994]

I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Please do not do anything rash!

[Lovelife090994]

She IS a bigot to believe it. She's a bit more of a bigot than you were. But our argument is done. I will still call out obvious bigotry. She flat out stated that gay people are mistakes and freaks of nature. How is that not hateful???

He never used the word hate in his statement. And if all you do is name call and point out bigotry then you are now acting bigoting and prejudicial.

[Lovelife090994]

Sorry I have to disagree. OK, the real world is FAR from perfect. OK so gay coupls can't physically produce children on their own. Sadly in the real world some straight couples cant either. Sometimes straight couples have children that are sadly ill too (and as an asthiest accept that as a part of just what happens before someone says that God is testing us or whatever). Are there bad gay people? Yes. Are there bad straight people? Yes. But in the real world there also kind and loving people straight or gay. Will gays get the opertunity to marry in a church - probably not. Should they be allowed to marry in the eyes of the law in a registry office, if 2 people love each other then why not? In the UK, 1 in 3 marriges end in divorce, and almost 1/2 kids born now are illigitemate (born outside wedlock). In this real, dark and horrible world, if 2 people want to marry, I'm not one to stop them. If they can adopt and provide a loving home (which some straght couples can't or even worse delebarately don't) do, I would not stop, infact would even encourage it. It may give kids better understanding and tollerance in the world. We have so many other worse things to worry about.

Tolerance is excellent until it is an opinion and cry for accepting taboo.

[Ace of Spades]

He never used the word hate in his statement. And if all you do is name call and point out bigotry then you are now acting bigoting and prejudicial.

If I said I thought the KKK was a wrong and disgusting group (which I do) would you call me a bigot and prejudicial?

You and others like you are not the oppressed. You ARE the oppressors.

[Vonn]

I'm back, friends.

I think, gays is nature's mistake. It's nature against. It's wrong. Do you know, that many self harms made by the gays? Because (if you trust in God) Eve was woman, that is why something other is wrong. How can two gays make happy family? How can they have a baby? Children, who was born in gays' family, grow with injuries. And that isn't only my thoughts.

Yes, it is only your thoughts. Unless you'd like to provide evidence.

The whole Adam and Eve argument is also something that needs to be dropped. Completely. A man/woman relationship had to be the first one because otherwise there would be no offspring. That isn't the case anymore, given there's billions of us now.

Gays can have a happy family by being nice and not being harassed by religious people just because they ~*believe*~ it is their duty. Gays can have a baby through adoption or surrogacy. Children raised by gay parents can avoid "injuries" by not being bullied.

It's like telling women not to get raped instead of telling rapists to stop raping people. The primary reason children with gay parents get "injured" is because of other people being jerks. How about instead of telling gays how they can and cannot live, we tell everyone else to mind their own business? I like the sound of that.

[teen.jpg]

[QUOTE=Lovelife090994;2262428]If you are a non believer then you will never understand.


Understand what? There isnt anything deeper to understand ...

[Harry Smith]

If you are a non believer then you will never understand.

I understand that religion is pure delusion, your basing your whole life on something you have absolutely no proof for. Your basing bigoted views on the idea that a book which is somehow written by god. Have you seen God? Have you heard God? Have you any evidence that this figure exists?

I'm gay, I don't care what you book says about that. A lot of people write books, it's just opinion without a shred of evidence. I don't give a fuck if your trying to spread the word of said book, what is so bad about me being gay?

[Lovelife090994]

If I said I thought the KKK was a wrong and disgusting group (which I do) would you call me a bigot and prejudicial?

You and others like you are not the oppressed. You ARE the oppressors.

No, because that is just. The KKK has wrought so many wrongs to people based on race and false pretenses!

[Lovelife090994]

[QUOTE=Lovelife090994;2262428]If you are a non believer then you will never understand.


Understand what? There isnt anything deeper to understand ...

There is so much more to undersatnd. I can tell you, but given that you won't listen, it would be a waste of time.

I understand that religion is pure delusion, your basing your whole life on something you have absolutely no proof for. Your basing bigoted views on the idea that a book which is somehow written by god. Have you seen God? Have you heard God? Have you any evidence that this figure exists?

I'm gay, I don't care what you book says about that. A lot of people write books, it's just opinion without a shred of evidence. I don't give a fuck if your trying to spread the word of said book, what is so bad about me being gay?

I have heard God before, religion is crazy, God is not. Christianity really should not be called religion, it is a relationship and lifestyle. One with God. I have evidence but you would never listen to it, since scientific people and atheists such as yourself, denounce anything that cannot be seen even though it can be heard. I have evidence, go to the Bible. If not that, the roots of it, the Torah. What's bad about you being gay is what is wrong with your attitude, it's dirty and very uncouth. Not to mention, a sin, which is another way of saying immoral. There is a reason why most people and why even in nature, males and females go together.

[Lovelife090994]

I understand that religion is pure delusion, your basing your whole life on something you have absolutely no proof for. Your basing bigoted views on the idea that a book which is somehow written by god. Have you seen God? Have you heard God? Have you any evidence that this figure exists?

I'm gay, I don't care what you book says about that. A lot of people write books, it's just opinion without a shred of evidence. I don't give a fuck if your trying to spread the word of said book, what is so bad about me being gay?

And I hope you realize that the God isn't real comments only build faith, not tear it down. Telling someone God isn't real changes nothing.

[johnsmith1]

Tolerance is excellent until it is an opinion and cry for accepting taboo.

Thankfully in the UK Civil parttnerships as they're called are legal, and not taboo (see link below). I don't know if it quite gives the same full legal rights as a "standard" married couple does, but has gone a long way. I've often felt that religion (any religon) seens to give love and understanding towards others, as long as you conform to the rules of that religion.

I accept that you believe in god, and that the idea of gay marriges in church are unlikely to happen any time soon. I accept that civil partnerships are legal in the UK, and that some states in the US have some sort of similar rules. Times are changing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Partnership_Act_2004

[Lovelife090994]

Thankfully in the UK Civil parttnerships as they're called are legal, and not taboo (see link below). I don't know if it quite gives the same full legal rights as a "standard" married couple does, but has gone a long way. I've often felt that religion (any religon) seens to give love and understanding towards others, as long as you conform to the rules of that religion.

I accept that you believe in god, and that the idea of gay marriges in church are unlikely to happen any time soon. I accept that civil partnerships are legal in the UK, and that some states in the US have some sort of similar rules. Times are changing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Partnership_Act_2004

Sir--Is there even a difference in civil partnership versus marriage? When you get married, it's not exactly law-free, civics are still applied.

[Ace of Spades]

No, because that is just. The KKK has wrought so many wrongs to people based on race and false pretenses!

So now you realize why disliking you and your homophobic ideologies is not bigotry

[Harry Smith]

[QUOTE=Shyy_Guii;2262461]

There is so much more to undersatnd. I can tell you, but given that you won't listen, it would be a waste of time.



I have heard God before, religion is crazy, God is not. Christianity really should not be called religion, it is a relationship and lifestyle. One with God. I have evidence but you would never listen to it, since scientific people and atheists such as yourself, denounce anything that cannot be seen even though it can be heard. I have evidence, go to the Bible. If not that, the roots of it, the Torah. What's bad about you being gay is what is wrong with your attitude, it's dirty and very uncouth. Not to mention, a sin, which is another way of saying immoral. There is a reason why most people and why even in nature, males and females go together.

So you have evidence yet you do not wish to share it with me?

Also the bible is not evidence at all, it was a book written by Humans. It does not prove god's existence.

Also being gay is not a sin because I don't follow your little cult. I have a mind for myself, I don't need some old fart in a gown to tell me how to think

[johnsmith1]

Sir--Is there even a difference in civil partnership versus marriage? When you get married, it's not exactly law-free, civics are still applied.

Possibly with the exception of adoption (I'm not sure if cvil partners in the UK can adopt yet or not), civil partnerships and man/ wife marriges are pretty much are the same over here. I've not heard of any civil partnerships happening in churches. Weather that changes at some point is another matter (I'm sure that there are religious people out there that are gay).

If you had a friend or relative that was having a civl partnership ceremony, would you go? I hope that doesn't sound rude - I'm genuinely curious as to weather your religious beliefs would keep you away. I do know one guy, that he said he was gay (he isn't as far as I know), his "born again" Christioan mum would probably disown him, and atheist dad wouldn't bother (probably after winding him up about it).

[Ace of Spades]

[QUOTE=Shyy_Guii;2262461]

There is so much more to undersatnd. I can tell you, but given that you won't listen, it would be a waste of time.



I have heard God before, religion is crazy, God is not. Christianity really should not be called religion, it is a relationship and lifestyle. One with God. I have evidence but you would never listen to it, since scientific people and atheists such as yourself, denounce anything that cannot be seen even though it can be heard. I have evidence, go to the Bible. If not that, the roots of it, the Torah. What's bad about you being gay is what is wrong with your attitude, it's dirty and very uncouth. Not to mention, a sin, which is another way of saying immoral. There is a reason why most people and why even in nature, males and females go together.

You sound like you're schizophrenic.
The Bible is not evidence. The Torah is not evidence. We skeptics will accept ACTUAL EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE. MULTIPLE SOURCES.
Ya know what's dirty? YOU, you are a filthy-minded, cretinous, hatful human being. But even you and all others like you deserve equal rights.

[teen.jpg]

What's bad about you being gay is what is wrong with your attitude, it's dirty and very uncouth. Not to mention, a sin, which is another way of saying immoral. There is a reason why most people and why even in nature, males and females go together.

Let me put this in the simplest terms as possible. This is the TEEN SEXUALITY forum. You came here to tell us that we are dirty and wrong, in the place where we are supposed to help others.

But, oh no. It doesn't stop there. You are expecting us to not be angry about it, even though what you say is hateful, bias, and bigoted.

Nobody will be nice to you if you're going to spew bullshit from the bible. I'm not one to hate others, but you're making it difficult not to.

So next time think before you spread your intolerant messages and false information. I really hope this sinks in; being hateful in a place of peace won't make you any friends.

[AbernathyElkwood]

I agree with you completely. I think it boils down to the fact that someone else's religion and someone else's marriage shouldn't be paired up. Why should anyone else care?

[Lovelife090994]

[QUOTE=Lovelife090994;2262527]

You sound like you're schizophrenic.
The Bible is not evidence. The Torah is not evidence. We skeptics will accept ACTUAL EMPIRICAL SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE. MULTIPLE SOURCES.
Ya know what's dirty? YOU, you are a filthy-minded, cretinous, hatful human being. But even you and all others like you deserve equal rights.

You sound very belliegerent and ignorant. You could at least look and ask where to look you know?

[Lovelife090994]

[QUOTE=Lovelife090994;2262527]

So you have evidence yet you do not wish to share it with me?

Also the bible is not evidence at all, it was a book written by Humans. It does not prove god's existence.

Also being gay is not a sin because I don't follow your little cult. I have a mind for myself, I don't need some old fart in a gown to tell me how to think

You just denounced the evidence I would have gave you if you only asked. And a cult is the KKK, they kill blindly by hatred.

[Ace of Spades]

[QUOTE=Ace of Spades;2262561]

You sound very belliegerent and ignorant. You could at least look and ask where to look you know?

I'm the ignorant one? Look at what everybody else has been saying. READ IT. They'll tell you.

[Lovelife090994]

Let me put this in the simplest terms as possible. This is the TEEN SEXUALITY forum. You came here to tell us that we are dirty and wrong, in the place where we are supposed to help others.

But, oh no. It doesn't stop there. You are expecting us to not be angry about it, even though what you say is hateful, bias, and bigoted.

Nobody will be nice to you if you're going to spew bullshit from the bible. I'm not one to hate others, but you're making it difficult not to.

So next time think before you spread your intolerant messages and false information. I really hope this sinks in; being hateful in a place of peace won't make you any friends.

I have many friends actually and many of my friends would agree with me. Never once did I say I hate homosexuals. I hate homosexuality.

[Ace of Spades]

I have many friends actually and many of my friends would agree with me. Never once did I say I hate homosexuals. I hate homosexuality.

It's pretty damn close to saying the same thing.

[Lovelife090994]

Possibly with the exception of adoption (I'm not sure if cvil partners in the UK can adopt yet or not), civil partnerships and man/ wife marriges are pretty much are the same over here. I've not heard of any civil partnerships happening in churches. Weather that changes at some point is another matter (I'm sure that there are religious people out there that are gay).

If you had a friend or relative that was having a civl partnership ceremony, would you go? I hope that doesn't sound rude - I'm genuinely curious as to weather your religious beliefs would keep you away. I do know one guy, that he said he was gay (he isn't as far as I know), his "born again" Christioan mum would probably disown him, and atheist dad wouldn't bother (probably after winding him up about it).

My father is atheist and really disapproves of my Christianity, but he can't talk, I can count how much I've seen him in life and have a hand left over. My mom, is Christian, an ordained minister and prophetess. She is actually more accepting than most would think. Thanks for answering like a civil person. A bientot!

[Vonn]

If there is going to be insulting, at least try to be more subtle about it.

I really hate how the Bible and other religious texts are treated as if they are correct just because they say so. That's all this whole thing is--an old book that says "because I said so." If I tried that with literally anything else in the world, I would lose the argument. Every single time.

Why. Why? Why can't people just get married? I really could care less about God's blessing, or whatever the sanctity (whispers divorce) of marriage is supposed to be. You can keep it.

[Lovelife090994]

It's pretty damn close to saying the same thing.

No, not really. Homosexuality is not a person.

[Ace of Spades]

I have many friends actually and many of my friends would agree with me. Never once did I say I hate homosexuals. I hate homosexuality.

You are a bad person. Do you not see that what you think is hateful?

[Lovelife090994]

You are a bad person

If being a Christian and supporter of morality not sin, is bad, then you need a dictionary dear.

[johnsmith1]

I feel like I've stumbled on a thread that seems to have started off as a simple question about gay marriage, and ended up a debate between very religious people who take the bible and their belief in God very seriously, and to the other end of the spectrum of atheists and scientists (of which I admitidly fall in to), who don't see the bible (a book adnittedly translated in to more languages than any other - even Klingon!) as a given fact or believe in God. I've had a few debates with religious people before, and hear the pasion from some people that are religious. The views are polar apart. I don't know if it's interesting or scary some of the replies between people, jus because their views are so different! Do I believe that I think I could change the views of someone here that holds their beliefs in God and the bilble as true. No. Will anyone convince me to turn away from the big bang theory, and 5 billion years of the earths development, probably not. Can I appeal for a bit of calm? I'll try!

[teen.jpg]

I have many friends actually and many of my friends would agree with me. Never once did I say I hate homosexuals. I hate homosexuality.

THAT IS THE SAME DAMN THING. If you disagree with homosexuality, then you obviously don't accept them. Tolerance my ass. If any gay "friend" you have read what you posted, they wouldn't feel the same about you that they do now.

Mhm, what happened to being a peaceful christian who didn't hate anyone. Like all overly-religious people, a pure hypocrite at heart. Go back to your bubble and keep your homophobia to yourself.

[Ace of Spades]

If being a Christian and supporter of morality not sin, is bad, then you need a dictionary dear.

If you are a Christian, then I am Jesus. I love playing make-believe, don't you?

[Lovelife090994]

THAT IS THE SAME DAMN THING. If you disagree with homosexuality, then you obviously don't accept them. Tolerance my ass. If any gay "friend" you have read what you posted, they wouldn't feel the same about you that they do now.

Mhm, what happened to being a peaceful christian who didn't hate anyone. Like all overly-religious people, a pure hypocrite at heart. Go back to your bubble and keep your homophobia to yourself.

Look not all my friends are Christian either, do you really think, I feel the least bit scared of them or angry? No, they have their ways, I have mine. They have their reasons, and I have mine. Simple.

How nice of you. Your words speaks volumes about your heart or lack thereof.

You decide.

[Lovelife090994]

If you are a Christian, then I am Jesus. I love playing make-believe, don't you?

You are no Jesus, nor am I, I am not literall Jesus, nor are you. I never play pretense. But I love debating. Keep them coming, the words do not hurt me dear.

[teen.jpg]

Look not all my friends are Christian either, do you really think, I feel the least bit scared of them or angry? No, they have their ways, I have mine. They have their reasons, and I have mine. Simple.

How nice of you. Your words speaks volumes about your heart or lack thereof.

You decide.

Nice of me? Says the one who said they hate everything that homosexual. Nice of me ... You are really funny?

You make other christians look good. Matter of fact, I should probably apologize to other Christians, because none of them has ever been as bad as you have.

I've read most of your posts, and you probably feel this way because you're confused about yourself.

It's not good to hate yourself.

[Ace of Spades]

You are no Jesus, nor am I, I am not literall Jesus, nor are you. I never play pretense. But I love debating. Keep them coming, the words do not hurt me dear.

Do you have a soul, child?

Prove that I'm not Jesus

[Lovelife090994]

Do you have a soul, child?

Prove that I'm not Jesus

Of course I have a soul, you do too. Jesus is loving, you do not seem to be a all by your words, or forgiving, you never once apologized.

[Lovelife090994]

Nice of me? Says the one who said they hate everything that homosexual. Nice of me ... You are really funny?

You make other christians look good. Matter of fact, I should probably apologize to other Christians, because none of them has ever been as bad as you have.

I've read most of your posts, and you probably feel this way because you're confused about yourself.

It's not good to hate yourself.

Not quite, and besides, I love myself, not in a conceited way. You are homosexual, you are not homosexuality, homosexuality is not a person. Surely you are aware of that. Besides. A true Christian will not support homosexuality, like me, they will tolerate homosexuals but not their ways. And I wonder, you are way too young for labels. Your whole life ahead of you and you're confused already, oh cherish the thought! My posts were in defense. I will not let someone bad mouth me and not say something. Who does that? I defend myself always.

[Ace of Spades]

Of course I have a soul, you do too. Jesus is loving, you do not seem to be a all by your words, or forgiving, you never once apologized.

Ever read Timothy? Jesus threw rocks at children.

[Lovelife090994]

Ever read Timothy? Jesus threw rocks at children.

Which verse please? Are you sure they were not demons?

[teen.jpg]

Not quite, and besides, I love myself, not in a conceited way. You are homosexual, you are not homosexuality, homosexuality is not a person. Surely you are aware of that. Besides. A true Christian will not support homosexuality, like me, they will tolerate homosexuals but not their ways. And I wonder, you are way too young for labels. Your whole life ahead of you and you're confused already, oh cherish the thought! My posts were in defense. I will not let someone bad mouth me and not say something. Who does that? I defend myself always.

I don't have a reason to question my sexuality, since I've been sure of that since December. If that is how you plan to attack me, well you just reached a WHOLE new low. I don't think you are aware, but this is VT, more specifically Teen Sexuality. And making me feel worse about my sexuality is probably a big deal. Don't cross the line.

I think your character is unraveling. I told the truth about you, and you are crumbling. I feel uncomfortable continuing this conversation because I'm not sure you can handle it. But I'm sure you're Imaginary god will help you now ... and ignore 7 billion other people for YOUR personal problems. Riiiight.

[Harry Smith]

Which verse please? Are you sure they were not demons?

I actually pity you for believing in your religious crap. One day you'll realise how much of an arrogant self righteous wanker you are.

I don't care if you hate homosexuality because quite frankly homosexuals hate you :P

[Lovelife090994]

I don't have a reason to question my sexuality, since I've been sure of that since December. If that is how you plan to attack me, well you just reached a WHOLE new low. I don't think you are aware, but this is VT, more specifically Teen Sexuality. And making me feel worse about my sexuality is probably a big deal. Don't cross the line.

I think your character is unraveling. I told the truth about you, and you are crumbling. I feel uncomfortable continuing this conversation because I'm not sure you can handle it. But I'm sure you're Imaginary god will help you now ... and ignore 7 billion other people for YOUR personal problems. Riiiight.

Right, and you know this how? I did not attack you. I said the truth, homosexuality isn't a person, it's a gross act. Anyone doing it needs help. Those who do it can be okay people but still they need help.

[Lovelife090994]

I actually pity you for believing in your religious crap. One day you'll realise how much of an arrogant self righteous wanker you are.

I don't care if you hate homosexuality because quite frankly homosexuals hate you :P

I love all, so what's a few haters? Besides, hating me get's you no where.

[Harry Smith]

I love all, so what's a few haters? Besides, hating me get's you no where.

yet you hate homosexuality....

[Lovelife090994]

I don't have a reason to question my sexuality, since I've been sure of that since December. If that is how you plan to attack me, well you just reached a WHOLE new low. I don't think you are aware, but this is VT, more specifically Teen Sexuality. And making me feel worse about my sexuality is probably a big deal. Don't cross the line.

I think your character is unraveling. I told the truth about you, and you are crumbling. I feel uncomfortable continuing this conversation because I'm not sure you can handle it. But I'm sure you're Imaginary god will help you now ... and ignore 7 billion other people for YOUR personal problems. Riiiight.

Second, insults do you no good. You have not once stopped insulting me. First you accuse me of hating you which I don't, then you accuse me of going crazy, then delusional because I'm Christian and you are not, then you say 7 billion will hate me?
Over 1 billion are Christians! And less than 1 billion are gay. To say I will not talk to others is delusional. Haven't you been listening?

[Lovelife090994]

yet you hate homosexuality....

You are not homosexuality, homosexuality is a sin, a demon, a vile act. Why hate me for saying this? Millions would agree, I suppose you hate them too?

[teen.jpg]

Right, and you know this how? I did attack you. I said the truth, homosexuality isn't a person, it's a gross act. Anyone doing it needs help. Those who do it can be okay people but still they need help.

No, YOU need help. You flip flop ideas on every single post. You should be a politician! It's pitiful, really. I think you have no idea what you are talking about, and are just typing just to try to tell yourself that you haven't lost this discussion. Which you have.

I don't even think Christians would agree with what you're saying anymore.

[Lovelife090994]

I actually pity you for believing in your religious crap. One day you'll realise how much of an arrogant self righteous wanker you are.

I don't care if you hate homosexuality because quite frankly homosexuals hate you :P

You may like this: God given talent and a person's recollection, proof of ear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbSMfL5LuSo&list=FLX0eGF6NluOaK46U59SGxOw&index=11

[teen.jpg]

You are not homosexuality, homosexuality is a sin, a demon, a vile act. Why hate me for saying this? Millions would agree, I suppose you hate them too?

So a mass following justifies anything?

Hitler. Nuff said.

[Lovelife090994]

No, YOU need help. You flip flop ideas on every single post. You should be a politician! It's pitiful, really. I think you have no idea what you are talking about, and are just typing just to try to tell yourself that you haven't lost this discussion. Which you have.

I don't even think Christians would agree with what you're saying anymore.


The last post had a terrible typo, And this helps you how? I haven't once accuse you of anything other than what you stated to me and by what I saw. I strongly dislike politicals, strongly. I know I have lost but this isn't a race, nothing to be won anyway. Besides, you do not even know me. Do you even know what a Christian is? If so, ask yourself, "Why do I hate God's followers?" It is showing dear, I fear for you.

[Harry Smith]

You are not homosexuality, homosexuality is a sin, a demon, a vile act. Why hate me for saying this? Millions would agree, I suppose you hate them too?

So what if you think it's a sin, I don't believe in your god... I have a brain

[Lovelife090994]

So what if you think it's a sin, I don't believe in your god... I have a brain

As do I, all humans have a brain. It is a sin, homosexuality. I'm not making this up, it's repeated numorous times in the Bible. If you do not belive in God, not god, there is a difference, that is fine. We are different. That does not mean what's immoral is moral, doesn't work that way. All this taboo, never good.

[johnsmith1]

You are not homosexuality, homosexuality is a sin, a demon, a vile act. Why hate me for saying this? Millions would agree, I suppose you hate them too?

I think this could be part of the problem. I respect that many people do see homsexuality is a sin, and therefor in their eyes, wrong. I, for one, like many, really am not bothered what two consenting people get up to as it's their choice and I really am not impacted by it. I still think many of those who think homsexuality is a sin thinkn Gay people are sinners (by definition homosexuals are the ones that would practice homosexuality) as they won't differenciate between the two.

[Harry Smith]

As do I, all humans have a brain. It is a sin, homosexuality. I'm not making this up, it's repeated numorous times in the Bible. If you do not belive in God, not god, there is a difference, that is fine. We are different. That does not mean what's immoral is moral, doesn't work that way. All this taboo, never good.

haha you believe in the magical man in sky, I'm so scared of you. I don't give a shit what you think about my life, your just some arrogant prick who quite frankly would probably get a right hook if you express these views in public because no-one likes an arrogant cock like you. I actually pity you for believing in something you cannot see... I pity your blind faithless belief. I pity your life

[Lovelife090994]

I think this could be part of the problem. I respect that many people do see homsexuality is a sin, and therefor in their eyes, wrong. I, for one, like many, really am not bothered what two consenting people get up to as it's their choice and I really am not impacted by it. I still think many of those who think homsexuality is a sin thinkn Gay people are sinners (by definition homosexuals are the ones that would practice homosexuality) as they won't differenciate between the two.

Homosexuality is not a person regardless though. Like I am Christian, I am not Christianity, Christianity is my faith not my very being in a sense. I am an artist, art is not literally me, I have artistic talent. I am a heterosexual, I am not heterosexuality itself. See the difference? One is the act, the other is the person. To be honest, homosexuals only bother me when they literally bother me, not just by seeing them, although I do look away.

[teen.jpg]

The last post had a terrible typo, And this helps you how? I haven't once accuse you of anything other than what you stated to me and by what I saw. I strongly dislike politicals, strongly. I know I have lost but this isn't a race, nothing to be won anyway. Besides, you do not even know me. Do you even know what a Christian is? If so, ask yourself, "Why do I hate God's followers?" It is showing dear, I fear for you.

No,you don't fear for me. You fear me. Because you're a homophobe.

[StoppingTime]

As do I, all humans have a brain. It is a sin, homosexuality. I'm not making this up, it's repeated numorous times in the Bible. If you do not belive in God, not god, there is a difference, that is fine. We are different. That does not mean what's immoral is moral, doesn't work that way. All this taboo, never good.

I'm going to make one and only one post in here, seeing as debating gay marriage with religious people rarely turns out well.

According to whatever Bible you believe in (I'm guessing the Christian one), you'd be correct to say that homosexuality and homosexual relationships are depicted as a sin, and a sinful act. That does not, however, mean that it is still a "sin" to those who don't believe in your Bible, your god, etc. Therefore, you cannot judge what is moral or not, nor can anyone, really.

Morality is decided by an individual (or at least it should be) not by a book, or any teachings from thousands of years ago, or from yesterday. You should be the one to decide whether or not something is moral. If it goes against your religious beliefs, fine, you are free to believe it's immoral. But you are not free to dictate and demand these beliefs on others - as you would be restricting them of something which is a right in modern societies - marriage.

And I'm guessing you're thinking, "oh, well their homosexuality is going against [I]my[/I ] rights which dictate that marriage is between a man and a woman. However, there's a difference between these two things. Your "rights" are restricting something that can become meaningless to you if you simply look the other way, while their rights aren't restricting anything.

So yea, that's my rant. Take it as you wish.

[Lovelife090994]

I'm going to make one and only one post in here, seeing as debating gay marriage with religious people rarely turns out well.

According to whatever Bible you believe in (I'm guessing the Christian one), you'd be correct to say that homosexuality and homosexual relationships are depicted as a sin, and a sinful act. That does not, however, mean that it is still a "sin" to those who don't believe in your Bible, your god, etc. Therefore, you cannot judge what is moral or not, nor can anyone, really.

Morality is decided by an individual (or at least it should be) not by a book, or any teachings from thousands of years ago, or from yesterday. You should be the one to decide whether or not something is moral. If it goes against your religious beliefs, fine, you are free to believe it's immoral. But you are not free to dictate and demand these beliefs on others - as you would be restricting them of something which is a right in modern societies - marriage.

And I'm guessing you're thinking, "oh, well their homosexuality is imending on my rights which dictate that marriage is between a man and a woman. However, there's a difference between these two things. Your "rights" are restricting something that can become meaningless to you if you simply look the other way, while their rights aren't restricting anything.

So yea, that's my rant. Take it as you wish.





I take it, but still keeping my opinions. True, non-believers do not believe in the concept of sin, but not everyone knows or can define moraility whether by religion or by teachings. I am restricting anyone, I am not going door to door or protesting in streets, these are my thoughts and opinions.

No,you don't fear for me. You fear me. Because you're a homophobe.

That's absurd! If I was scared of you, I'd stop talking. If I was scared I'd be a psycopath. If I was scared I would care less of you. I do fear for you. besides, look up homophobia or better yet the suffix phobia. You missed something again. I do not want to see anything bad happen to you or sinners so I must tell them my opinion when asked, which was the case in the thread. But someone wanted to negate my very first post here, this this hellfire debate grew.

I am sorry if I offended you, but I'm keeping my opinions, views, faith, and reasoning. Disagreement does not equal hatred. I disagree with your lifestyle dear, but I do not hate you. I notice only homosexuals and supporters use the word homophobia, but as a slur, which you have just used. I am not scared of someone, except maybe a murderer, but I'm not scared of you either.

[teen.jpg]

I'm going to make one and only one post in here, seeing as debating gay marriage with religious people rarely turns out well.

According to whatever Bible you believe in (I'm guessing the Christian one), you'd be correct to say that homosexuality and homosexual relationships are depicted as a sin, and a sinful act. That does not, however, mean that it is still a "sin" to those who don't believe in your Bible, your god, etc. Therefore, you cannot judge what is moral or not, nor can anyone, really.

Morality is decided by an individual (or at least it should be) not by a book, or any teachings from thousands of years ago, or from yesterday. You should be the one to decide whether or not something is moral. If it goes against your religious beliefs, fine, you are free to believe it's immoral. But you are not free to dictate and demand these beliefs on others - as you would be restricting them of something which is a right in modern societies - marriage.

And I'm guessing you're thinking, "oh, well their homosexuality is imending on my rights which dictate that marriage is between a man and a woman. However, there's a difference between these two things. Your "rights" are restricting something that can become meaningless to you if you simply look the other way, while their rights aren't restricting anything.

So yea, that's my rant. Take it as you wish.

I 100% agree with this.


Gotta love the mods!

[johnsmith1]

I'm going to make one and only one post in here, seeing as debating gay marriage with religious people rarely turns out well.

According to whatever Bible you believe in (I'm guessing the Christian one), you'd be correct to say that homosexuality and homosexual relationships are depicted as a sin, and a sinful act. That does not, however, mean that it is still a "sin" to those who don't believe in your Bible, your god, etc. Therefore, you cannot judge what is moral or not, nor can anyone, really.

Morality is decided by an individual (or at least it should be) not by a book, or any teachings from thousands of years ago, or from yesterday. You should be the one to decide whether or not something is moral. If it goes against your religious beliefs, fine, you are free to believe it's immoral. But you are not free to dictate and demand these beliefs on others - as you would be restricting them of something which is a right in modern societies - marriage.

And I'm guessing you're thinking, "oh, well their homosexuality is imending on my rights which dictate that marriage is between a man and a woman. However, there's a difference between these two things. Your "rights" are restricting something that can become meaningless to you if you simply look the other way, while their rights aren't restricting anything.

So yea, that's my rant. Take it as you wish.

I 100% agree with this.


Gotta love the mods!

Yes, I have to go with the mod too

[teen.jpg]

I take it, but still keeping my opinions. True, non-believers do not believe in the concept of sin, but not everyone knows or can define moraility whether by religion or by teachings. I am restricting anyone, I am not going door to door or protesting in streets, these are my thoughts and opinions.

Yes, but believing that one should not live as they please because it is "wrong" IS restrictive.

[Vonn]

True, non-believers do not believe in the concept of sin, but not everyone knows or can define moraility whether by religion or by teachings.

He just said morality is defined by an individual, for that individual. Morality has a dictionary definition but one person's morals are not always the same as someone else's, as you can see in this thread.

It's really convenient how sin works, isn't it? The threat of eternal suffering after death--a state we cannot consciously comprehend and probably never will--unless you do as I (or this book) says. It's almost a shame we have the ability to be reasonable and logical and yet so many people are told to abandon all of it in favor of the beliefs of long-dead whoevers who had little knowledge of how the world worked.

I am restricting anyone, I am not going door to door or protesting in streets, these are my thoughts and opinions.

Great.

Yes, but believing that one should not live as they please because it is "wrong" IS restrictive.

People are restricted by others' actions, not their thoughts.

[Lovelife090994]

Yes, but believing that one should not live as they please because it is "wrong" IS restrictive.

Action restricts, not words. I am not going to argue, you want words? You win what ever this was anyway. I do not wish to argue back and forth. Or debate, whichever it is. Good day for now, God Bless and sorry if I offended you, just sharing thoughts.

[Lovelife090994]

He just said morality is defined by an individual, for that individual. Morality has a dictionary definition but one person's morals are not always the same as someone else's, as you can see in this thread.

It's really convenient how sin works, isn't it? The threat of eternal suffering after death--a state we cannot consciously comprehend and probably never will--unless you do as I (or this book) says. It's almost a shame we have the ability to be reasonable and logical and yet so many people are told to abandon all of it in favor of the beliefs of long-dead whoevers who had little knowledge of how the world worked.

Sin isn't convenient at all. And I am keeping my faith

Great.

I am not restricting



People are restricted by others' actions, not their thoughts.

All I did is share thoughts

[Vonn]

All I did is share thoughts

And I'm sharing mine. Isn't it fun? I'm having fun.

[Lovelife090994]

And I'm sharing mine. Isn't it fun? I'm having fun.

Not really, wel, maybe it is liberating... Not sure. In my home, we seldom talk, and in my family, we seldom discuss. I guess sad right? I was bullied for having my thoughts when asked, I do not care, I'm keeping them. Shy guy had one thing right, I was once bullied, but I am not troubled. Well, troubled by day to day things but not too concerned.

[Ace of Spades]

Not really, wel, maybe it is liberating... Not sure. In my home, we seldom talk, and in my family, we seldom discuss. I guess sad right? I was bullied for having my thoughts when asked, I do not care, I'm keeping them. Shy guy had one thing right, I was once bullied, but I am not troubled. Well, troubled by day to day things but not too concerned.

I'm sorry that you were bullied. I truly am. But being bullied doesn't give you the right to become a bully.

[Lovelife090994]

I'm sorry that you were bullied. I truly am. But being bullied doesn't give you the right to become a bully.

I am not a bully. I'm just a guy, a guy no one cares about at times, but still me. Oh well, thank you for your concern. I've told many people that but aside from my mother you're the first to show some sympathy. Thanks. But look at me, I don't want you to pity me, I'm fine.

[Cicero]

I understand that religion is pure delusion, your basing your whole life on something you have absolutely no proof for. Your basing bigoted views on the idea that a book which is somehow written by god. Have you seen God? Have you heard God? Have you any evidence that this figure exists?

I'm gay, I don't care what you book says about that. A lot of people write books, it's just opinion without a shred of evidence. I don't give a fuck if your trying to spread the word of said book, what is so bad about me being gay?
Then why get so offended by what some "book" says?then Why do lgbt get so offended by some stupid book? Especially when it has "absolutely no proof"?
It's pretty damn close to saying the same thing.

Ummm, no, it's not. You love the person, hate the sin. You love the alcoholic, you hate alcoholism. As you can see, you hate the cause love the victim.

[Cicero]

So now you realize why disliking you and your homophobic ideologies is not bigotry

Pretty rude saying you dislike the person, instead of saying you dislike their ideology. In fact, it is bigoted saying you dislike someone based off of differing ideology. I know you have a tuff time with definitions, so here's the definition of

bigotry- intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself

So you're showing intolerance toward lovelife, for holding a different opinion than you. (Intolerance- unwillingness to accept beliefs, views, or behavior that differ from ones own)

You're a hypocrite.

[Harry Smith]

Then why get so offended by what some "book" says?then Why do lgbt get so offended by some stupid book? Especially when it has "absolutely no proof"?


Because the book is quoted and used by christians as a valuable piece of evidence when it is not. They use the bible to justify extreme and offensive views

[Hunter_Steel]

Which is? What are you? If you changed your opinions so abruptly you never had them in the first place. I stand by my opinions and faith, neither shall change. And look up bigot, back then it was at the height if insults like a disgrace or dishonor. I am not necessarily anti, I do not nor would I protest. If gay rights are so right, why all the hype aand name callings in its name? Why all the new heterophobia?

While God does exist, your somewhat opinions are only justified while using the bible. I hate to tell you this but... Christians aren't supposed to listen to 100% of everything in the bible IMO. I am a reformed Christian, but I am also Bi-sexual. Got a problem with that? Deal with it.

~Hunter

[Lovelife090994]

While God does exist, your somewhat opinions are only justified while using the bible. I hate to tell you this but... Christians aren't supposed to listen to 100% of everything in the bible IMO. I am a reformed Christian, but I am also Bi-sexual. Got a problem with that? Deal with it.

~Hunter

Why'd I have a problem with that? Disagreement is not hatred. The ending is kind of rude. You can think you're Christian but what you just said is contradictory. Sorry, I am just saying, I expect you can see that, yes?

[teen.jpg]

Then why get so offended by what some "book" says?then Why do lgbt get so offended by some stupid book? Especially when it has "absolutely no proof"?


Ummm, no, it's not. You love the person, hate the sin. You love the alcoholic, you hate alcoholism. As you can see, you hate the cause love the victim.

Nobody is a "victim" of homosexuality, because there is nothing wrong with it.

[teen.jpg]

Why'd I have a problem with that? Disagreement is not hatred. The ending is kind of rude. You can think you're Christian but what you just said is contradictory. Sorry, I am just saying, I expect you can see that, yes?

So somebody can't share the same faith as you because of their orientation? So much for loving all people.

[scared_heart]

i think gay marrige is weird and maybe wrong but making it illegal would just be another thing for our government to do to take away our rightd
s as free citizens. im not gay but i thinknits so horrible how everyone treats gay people as like aliens. theyre still fkn people and they still deserve to be treaated with love and respect. if your gay thars they way you are and you shouldnt be ashamed of it. <3

[Hunter_Steel]

This is the kind of Ignorance in Christianity that gives us a bad name...

~Hunter

[Cicero]

So somebody can't share the same faith as you because of their orientation? So much for loving all people.

This is the kind of Ignorance in Christianity that gives us a bad name...

~Hunter

What he was saying, is that if you were a Christian. You'd want to abide by the bible, not go against it. The bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin. Period. To God, all sin is equal.

So, probably, in the eyes of Lovelife. You saying you're bi and a Christian, is like saying you go to a Satanist church but you're Christian. It's probably the same irony.

[teen.jpg]

What he was saying, is that if you were a Christian. You'd want to abide by the bible, not go against it. The bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin. Period. To God, all sin is equal.

So, probably, in the eyes of Lovelife. You saying you're bi and a Christian, is like saying you go to a Satanist church but you're Christian. It's probably the same irony.

Yes, but your sexuality isn't a choice. If someone wants to be a Christian even though they are non-heteor (which I don't see the point of doing, but to each their own) then so be it. Is there a specific reason WHY homosexuality is a sin?

[Cicero]

Yes, but your sexuality isn't a choice. If someone wants to be a Christian even though they are non-heteor (which I don't see the point of doing, but to each their own) then so be it. Is there a specific reason WHY homosexuality is a sin?

Yes, in the bible there is. It's unnatural. The bible says it is a choice. So it's hard to say you are something that the bible calls an Abomination and unnatural. It's like saying "I go to a satanic church, but I'm a Christian" those two just don't mix. Water and oil don't mix, just like Christianity and homosexuality. Don't argue, cause I didn't make the bible or homosexuality. I'm simply telling you what it says, what you say won't change my mind about what the bible says, because I can't just say "Oh you're right, the bible doesn't say that" Because it does. so saying how its wrong to think like that wont change anything, because thats just what the bible says and many people will listen to it. I know many christians who support gay marriage, but they dint agree with it. my grandma doesnt support homosexuality, but my cousin is gay and she treats him like she does with my other cousins. in fact, she would vote for gay marriage cause she believes she shouldnt get in between love. but she just doesnt agree with it. it doesnt mean shes mean to gays, cause shes friends with many gays. I'm not saying you can't change my view about homosexuality, cause I too find guys attractive, I'm not telling you my opinion in these posts, I'm just telling you the facts about what Christianity says about it.

[teen.jpg]

Yes, in the bible there is. It's unnatural. The bible says it is a choice. So it's hard to say you are something that the bible calls an Abomination and unnatural. It's like saying "I go to a satanic church, but I'm a Christian" those two just don't mix. Water and oil don't mix, just like Christianity and homosexuality.

Ok, if it WAS a choice (which it isn't), then why the hell would anyone CHOOSE to be different. Different to the point where you have to lie to everyone you know. Different where you feel like no one is like you and you're alone. Different that you have to either "stay in the closet" or "come out". Who the hell would make that choice?

And why are you letting a book dislike what a person is? Is there something you have personally against homosexuals?

[teen.jpg]

Don't argue, cause I didn't make the bible or homosexuality. I'm simply telling you what it says, what you say won't change my mind about what the bible says, because I can't just say "Oh you're right, the bible doesn't say that". I'm not saying you can't change my view about homosexuality, cause I too find guys attractive, I'm not telling you my opinion in these posts, I'm just telling you the facts about what Christianity says about it.

K, I get what you mean. But if it goes against what you are, and says what you are is wrong, how can you agree with that?

[Cicero]

Ok, if it WAS a choice (which it isn't), then why the hell would anyone CHOOSE to be different. Different to the point where you have to lie to everyone you know. Different where you feel like no one is like you and you're alone. Different that you have to either "stay in the closet" or "come out". Who the hell would make that choice?

And why are you letting a book dislike what a person is? Is there something you have personally against homosexuals?

I've added more to that post, so re-read it.

Also, I already said, don't question me. That's just how Christianity is. It won't change for you or any other gay out there, especially since its been around for thousands of years. They won't change something in the bible to accomodate a popular lifestyle or life decision, whether its something you can or can't control. I have nothing against them, I'm just telling you what the bible says. The bible finds homosexuals an abomination, so you can't be a practicing homosexual and be a Christian at the same time, if you believe you can be, you're delusional. Cause the bible constantly condemns homosexuality. It's like saying "I'm a murderer, but I'm also a Christian". They're opposites

[Vonn]

Also, I already said, don't question me. That's just how Christianity is. It won't change for you or any other gay out there, especially since its been around for thousands of years. They won't change something in the bible to accomodate a popular lifestyle or life decision, whether its something you can or can't control.

Just because it can't be changed doesn't mean we can't ignore it. There are plenty of listed sins that have been ignored ever since the human race gained some sense.

That's another thing I loathe. Ignoring some sins and enforcing others, usually to one's convenience. Technically, nobody is a real Christian anymore, if we're going strictly by the Bible.

I have nothing against them, I'm just telling you what the bible says. The bible finds homosexuals an abomination, so you can't be a practicing homosexual and be a Christian at the same time, if you believe you can be, you're delusional.
so you can't be a practicing homosexual and be a Christian at the same time, if you believe you can be, you're delusional.
if you believe you can be, you're delusional.
you're delusional.
you're delusional.

Help me, I've fallen and I can't get up.

Cause the bible constantly condemns homosexuality. It's like saying "I'm a murderer, but I'm also a Christian". They're opposites

A murderer can repent and become a Christian. A Christian can snap and go on a killing spree. You can be whatever you want. (Except gay 'cause it's not a choice.)

(Please note, Cicero, I'm not trying to argue with you, as you said you are just laying out the facts--I'm just using your post to make a few points.)

[Lovelife090994]

Wow, Cicero, you stated that better than I could. Just a quick message. Shy Guy, please stop, Cicero has been more than kind, the least you can do is offer tact and thank him for his didactic posts.

[dystopianqueen]

That it shouldn't even be a matter of opinion.
Fact #1: They are being denied legal rights.....over a thousand, in fact.That right there should just stop this debate cold, and have IMMEDIATE measures taken to fix it.
Fact #2: Most, if not all, of the arguements against gay marriage are ill- prepared and invalid.
Fact #3: Not gay marriage. Its just marriage.....like any other couple.

[Synyster Shadows]

I think it should be. As people have said, religion and state should be kept separate.

[naglfari]

I've added more to that post, so re-read it.

Also, I already said, don't question me. That's just how Christianity is. It won't change for you or any other gay out there, especially since its been around for thousands of years. They won't change something in the bible to accomodate a popular lifestyle or life decision, whether its something you can or can't control. I have nothing against them, I'm just telling you what the bible says. The bible finds homosexuals an abomination, so you can't be a practicing homosexual and be a Christian at the same time, if you believe you can be, you're delusional. Cause the bible constantly condemns homosexuality. It's like saying "I'm a murderer, but I'm also a Christian". They're opposites

christianity changes with the times constantly lol

[Cicero]

christianity changes with the times constantly lol

Last time I checked, many people on here condemn it for not changing with the times and being 80+ years behind the times.

[naglfari]

Last time I checked, many people on here condemn it for not changing with the times and being 80+ years behind the times.

It doesn't exactly act quickly.but it always gets dragged into the modern age.

Well, catholics anyway. Lots of Christan denominations are progressive

[Krash9]

Wait, I dont get why people care about Civil marriage and the bible. I mean except for some ridiculous rumor in the UK, most countries arent requiring churches to marry gay people. So religious marriage and civil marriage like seem different to me. Right? I mean people dont need a priest get get married. a justice of the peace can do it. Heck even some people in the Catholic church are talking about legal protections for same sex couples.

[tommy100]

have nothing against people who want to get married. It doesn't affect me or anyone so i don't see why so many people care

[crepesuzette]

How would you feel if straight couples had to move to a different state just to get married?

Do you know about "separate but equal" ? It's a false thing, and you might look it up. Same thing applies here.

I would hate it very much. Why can't they get married where they are? That's so ridiculous.

[TheDeepestDepths]

I've been following this debate over the past 10 pages or something like that and I just want to address a few things people have said.

Who's the bigot? You need a dictionary. You are accusing me and denying my religion? For shame, besides, God is real, his works are all around, I've seen it. The Bible is none of what you mentioned. Never cherry pick dear, the New Testament justifies this. I notice those like you who bring those up, never read the whole passage nor have you gone to the New Testament, asked a pastor or looked at the symbolism in the Bible. The Bible is full of so much, even history is in it. I am not using God to justify hate, I am stating how in the eye's of God homosexuality is a sin, although he loves the person as Christians do and should do. Me? Of course I love all, even life, hence my name lovelife. Lastly, I am still praying for you. You've been on my mind lately. I notice all your comebacks are insults? Something bothering you? Care to discuss this as an adult in civilness and respect? And yes, I forgive you :) Peace brother! God Bless you! Argue all you want! I love and respect you! I won't turn down a reply and two, arguing and name calling never hurt me, so find something else.

So you're saying that eating shellfish and wearing clothes with two different types of fabrics was a sin but isn't anymore because of opinions that changed after the Old Testament was written? So the Old Testament was wrong in it's views, then? Why can't the same be said of Homosexuality and both Old and New Testament? Maybe the New New Testament will disprove that Homosexuality is a sin - it just hasn't been written yet. Once, the Bible was clearly wrong about eating shellfish, why can't it be wrong about Homosexuality now?

No, because that is just. The KKK has wrought so many wrongs to people based on race and false pretenses!

The KKK was a group of people with similar ideals who did terrible things, yes? The same can be said of Christians with only a longer and even more sordid history.

1) Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.

2) Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."

3) The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.

4) Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.

5) Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany.

6) 16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage.

(Had to stick that one in as I'm Irish, myself)

Lastly, you can't even claim that these atrocities were committed too long ago to bother with. Because...

7) Catholic extermination camps
Surprisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practicing Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!
In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian Serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdienst der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The Pope knew about these events and did nothing to prevent them.

If you want more examples they're on this (http://articles.exchristian.net/2002/10/how-many-people-have-been-killed-by.php) website.

I can't remember who said this but:

Heterosexuality, very few cultures have embraced or adorned and accepted homosexuality, only ones that did, they are now gone, like the ways of the Ancient Greeks and Romans.

In Mythology, it wasn't just the Greeks and the Romans who didn't have a problem with people's sexuality. Most, if not all, Mythologies regarded it as normal. It was only when Christianity came around that people started becoming more narrow-minded and prejudiced. Before that no-one cared. And it frustrates me to no end that it has taken humanity over two thousand years - not to advance - but to get back to where we started.

[Lovelife090994]

I've been following this debate over the past 10 pages or something like that and I just want to address a few things people have said.



So you're saying that eating shellfish and wearing clothes with two different types of fabrics was a sin but isn't anymore because of opinions that changed after the Old Testament was written? So the Old Testament was wrong in it's views, then? Why can't the same be said of Homosexuality and both Old and New Testament? Maybe the New New Testament will disprove that Homosexuality is a sin - it just hasn't been written yet. Once, the Bible was clearly wrong about eating shellfish, why can't it be wrong about Homosexuality now?



The KKK was a group of people with similar ideals who did terrible things, yes? The same can be said of Christians with only a longer and even more sordid history.

1) Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.

2) Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469]
According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."

3) The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415.

4) Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded.

5) Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany.

6) 16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde".
Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage.

(Had to stick that one in as I'm Irish, myself)

Lastly, you can't even claim that these atrocities were committed too long ago to bother with. Because...

7) Catholic extermination camps
Surprisingly few know that Nazi extermination camps in World War II were by no means the only ones in Europe at the time. In the years 1942-1943 also in Croatia existed numerous extermination camps, run by Catholic Ustasha under their dictator Ante Paveliç, a practicing Catholic and regular visitor to the then pope. There were even concentration camps exclusively for children!
In these camps - the most notorious was Jasenovac, headed by a Franciscan friar - orthodox-Christian Serbians (and a substantial number of Jews) were murdered. Like the Nazis the Catholic Ustasha burned their victims in kilns, alive (the Nazis were decent enough to have their victims gassed first). But most of the victims were simply stabbed, slain or shot to death, the number of them being estimated between 300,000 and 600,000, in a rather tiny country. Many of the killers were Franciscan friars. The atrocities were appalling enough to induce bystanders of the Nazi "Sicherheitsdienst der SS", watching, to complain about them to Hitler (who did not listen). The Pope knew about these events and did nothing to prevent them.

If you want more examples they're on this (http://articles.exchristian.net/2002/10/how-many-people-have-been-killed-by.php) website.

I can't remember who said this but:



In Mythology, it wasn't just the Greeks and the Romans who didn't have a problem with people's sexuality. Most, if not all, Mythologies regarded it as normal. It was only when Christianity came around that people started becoming more narrow-minded and prejudiced. Before that no-one cared. And it frustrates me to no end that it has taken humanity over two thousand years - not to advance - but to get back to where we started.

Thank you for this lengthy essay, but if there is one thing I can clarify it's the scripture you brought up. To the shellfish, it is unclean literally and God did not want us to eat something unclean he wanted us to be clean of spirit and of body. To the fabric, he wants us to be pure, two or more fabrics are not pure thus not a pure representation. And as a Christian I am offended by your last comment, accusing Christians of wanting to go backwards? Surely no, this was not your goal, but please understand, not everyone who says they are Christian is one entirely but no one is perfect, however, we do not seek to regress but to make progress. As of the past, some of it although all of it is key to know is irrelevant to the main topic here. Do not constantly bring up the past wrongs of Christianity, itt has been tarnished by false-Christians and soothsayers alike. Other groups of people even the Irish have histories are less to be desired. And to the Christian killings, many true Christians have been killed as well across continents and time, or do you write those off as myth?

[TheDeepestDepths]

Thank you for this lengthy essay, but if there is one thing I can clarify it's the scripture you brought up. To the shellfish, it is unclean literally and God did not want us to eat something unclean he wanted us to be clean of spirit and of body. To the fabric, he wants us to be pure, two or more fabrics are not pure thus not a pure representation. And as a Christian I am offended by your last comment, accusing Christians of wanting to go backwards? Surely no, this was not your goal, but please understand, not everyone who says they are Christian is one entirely but no one is perfect, however, we do not seek to regress but to make progress. As of the past, some of it although all of it is key to know is irrelevant to the main topic here. Do not constantly bring up the past wrongs of Christianity, itt has been tarnished by false-Christians and soothsayers alike. Other groups of people even the Irish have histories are less to be desired. And to the Christian killings, many true Christians have been killed as well across continents and time, or do you write those off as myth?

I did not intend for my post to become so long, I was just trying to respond to what people have been saying in the least argumentative way possible. It was only after I posted that I realised how long it had gotten.

I was using the shellfish and fabrics as examples. I realise that there were reasons behind what was said about them. But the reasons were not the purpose of the point. I was just trying to highlight that there are things regarded as 'sins' in the Old Testament that were then negated in the New Testament. And if the Bible was wrong about those - so much so that it goes back on it's word - what's stopping it being wrong about Homosexuality?

I certainly wasn't trying to imply that Christians want to go backwards, although I can see how you got that impression. I was just trying to point out that people were far more open-minded about things such as sexuality and gender before Christianity came along. People, and I will admit that the Greek and Romans are the most famous for this, just didn't care what other people did with their personal sexual lives. They regarded sexuality as a whole as something normal, not even worthy of note. Even the Gods they worshiped flipped between sexuality and gender. I was just pointing out that it has taken us two millennia to begin to become as open-minded as we were back then, and you cannot deny that religion, Christianity in particular, has not helped in this respect. Especially with their view of Homosexuality and Transgender people being disgusting and unnatural sinners.

I have never and never will claim that my country was free of wrong doing. The Irish were just as bloodthirsty and hateful as any other country in history, and made some monumentally stupid decisions. I will never deny that. I merely brought it up because I am from here and have studied it - it had a lot more meaning to me than any of the other points.

As far as I am aware I am the first to bring up Christianity's past faults and did so only in list form - that would hardly be classified as 'keep bringing it up'. I brought them up in an attempt to make the point that Christianity as a whole has been wrong in the past and horrific things have come of it. I'm not trying to say that there's going to be mass slaughter because Christians think Homosexuality is evil but what's to stop Christians being wrong now? As far as I'm aware there are no reasons or arguments against Gay Marriage that aren't religious. Very few non-religious people are against it. The Christian viewpoint is the main thing standing in the way of equality.

Of course I don't disregard Christian deaths as being myths simply because they were Christians. I know Christians have been persecuted by other groups in history but we're not discussing those groups here. It is the Christian viewpoint that is up for debate.

[DVNO]

Alright well I haven't read any of the previous pages, as I don't care for arguing blah blah blah.

This is my opinion on gay marriage:

Marriage was originally a thing of religion, between a man and a woman. I don't think marriage should be something that homosexuals or lesbians should take a part of unless they are religious. I believe more in civil unions, between any sex or gender.

Marriage and politics should not be mixed, just like religion and politics. Benefits for civil unions should be given to any union of any sex/gender combination. Equal rights for everyone no matter what kind of person you fancy.

On the topic of same-sex marriages within a religion, I think that the Christian religion specifically should be accepting of gay marriage and non-discriminatory towards such individuals given that the only mention against homosexuality in the Christian Bible exists in the old testament, along with other practices that are not took to relevance today such as the stoning to death of disobedient children and women who lose their virginity before marriage.

At the end of the day, if you are in a heterosexual relationship or marriage, you shouldn't give any care in the world as to who other people marry, any two people being together is not going to compromise your marriage, or well-being.

[naglfari]

Marriage wasn't invented by Christians lol

[DVNO]

Marriage wasn't invented by Christians lol

I don't believe I said that.

[naglfari]

I don't believe I said that.

christianity is less than 2000 years old. marriage predates recorded history. lol at you forever

[Loreley]

I support gay mariage but not adopting a child.

[TheDeepestDepths]

I support gay mariage but not adopting a child.

What do you have against two people of the same sex adopting? Just out of curiosity, as this isn't the topic of the thread.

[Loreley]

What do you have against two people of the same sex adopting? Just out of curiosity, as this isn't the topic of the thread.

I know, that a child, brings happiness to a couple, whether they are a woman and a man, or two people of the same sex. But, I think, that children must take good "examples" from their family. I really have nothing against gay and lesbians, but if children are raised in a family like this, they will realise that they have two male parents, so, they will consider it as the right and normal thing.
I don't mean that it's not right, but from our nature, men are made to like women and women are made to like men.
I hope I didn't offend someone, it's not my aim.

[Caldwell]

I know, that a child, brings happiness to a couple, whether they are a woman and a man, or two people of the same sex. But, I think, that children must take good "examples" from their family. I really have nothing against gay and lesbians, but if children are raised in a family like this, they will realise that they have two male parents, so, they will consider it as the right and normal thing.
I don't mean that it's not right, but from our nature, men are made to like women and women are made to like men.
I hope I didn't offend someone, it's not my aim.

So basically, this is your argument:

1. You say you don't believe gays are wrong

2. You say that kids shouldn't believe that it's normal

Are you serious? What about all of the gay people who were raised by straight couples? They aren't straight, obviously enough. You don't 'become' gay by being around gay people, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being accepting of LGBT people.

[Loreley]

So basically, this is your argument:

1. You say you don't believe gays are wrong

2. You say that kids shouldn't believe that it's normal

Are you serious? What about all of the gay people who were raised by straight couples? They aren't straight, obviously enough. You don't 'become' gay by being around gay people, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being accepting of LGBT people.

Okay okay, I knew it was wrong to write on this topic, because everyone would misunderstand my opinion.
First of all, I didn't say that I don't accept LGBT people.
Secondly, that which I tried to say, is that if children see their male parents kiss for example, they will consider this standard as right. And in my point of view, children must be raised in a family with a man and a woman, in a "right" family for the social standars.

And after they will take their own decisions for their life.

[DVNO]

christianity is less than 2000 years old. marriage predates recorded history. lol at you forever
Exactly, I never said Christianity started marriage, how do you not understand my last post?

[Joshua2000]

Secondly, that which I tried to say, is that if children see their male parents kiss for example, they will consider this standard as right. And in my point of view, children must be raised in a family with a man and a woman, in a "right" family for the social standars.

And after they will take their own decisions for their life.

What makes the man/woman standard not right? The only reason man and woman are the "right social standard" is because anything else has been crushed by the non-gay, etc, people. It's not anything in nature that has stopped it. If we let nature rule and not dominating people it would be a lot different.

Being gay isnt a "decision" to make. You either are or your not. I have a friend with gay parents and hes like one of the straightest dudes I know. It's not like a virus that you catch if you see two dudes kissing. LOL

[Caldwell]

Okay okay, I knew it was wrong to write on this topic, because everyone would misunderstand my opinion.
First of all, I didn't say that I don't accept LGBT people.
Secondly, that which I tried to say, is that if children see their male parents kiss for example, they will consider this standard as right. And in my point of view, children must be raised in a family with a man and a woman, in a "right" family for the social standars.

And after they will take their own decisions for their life.

Right, except scientific studies show that children do best with TWO parents in a stable home, and that the gender is mostly irrelevant.

You're totally contradicting yourself here. You keep saying being gay isn't right. "If he sees their male parents kiss, they'll think that it's right." What is that supposed to mean? That being a homosexual is wrong?

It's not a matter of me not getting your 'point,' it's a matter of your posts contradicting themselves.

[Lovelife090994]

What makes the man/woman standard not right? The only reason man and woman are the "right social standard" is because anything else has been crushed by the non-gay, etc, people. It's not anything in nature that has stopped it. If we let nature rule and not dominating people it would be a lot different.

Being gay isnt a "decision" to make. You either are or your not. I have a friend with gay parents and hes like one of the straightest dudes I know. It's not like a virus that you catch if you see two dudes kissing. LOL

What! Man and woman, that is how it supposed to be. Male and female. A man finds a woman, of they fall in love and marry and have children it is only natural for them to be together. The tradtional pairing is what brought us to be born; a mother and a father.

[Lovelife090994]

Right, except scientific studies show that children do best with TWO parents in a stable home, and that the gender is mostly irrelevant.

You're totally contradicting yourself here. You keep saying being gay isn't right. "If he sees their male parents kiss, they'll think that it's right." What is that supposed to mean? That being a homosexual is wrong?

It's not a matter of me not getting your 'point,' it's a matter of your posts contradicting themselves.

You hit the nail on the head, but I agree with the original quotation.

[acan1997]

To everyone...arguing is absolutely pointless.
Nobody is going to change anybody's mind.

[Lovelife090994]

Okay okay, I knew it was wrong to write on this topic, because everyone would misunderstand my opinion.
First of all, I didn't say that I don't accept LGBT people.
Secondly, that which I tried to say, is that if children see their male parents kiss for example, they will consider this standard as right. And in my point of view, children must be raised in a family with a man and a woman, in a "right" family for the social standars.

And after they will take their own decisions for their life.

I understnad your point... mine is slightly different but I will not share it here. People only argue here.

[Joshua2000]

What! Man and woman, that is how it supposed to be. Male and female. A man finds a woman, of they fall in love and marry and have children it is only natural for them to be together. The tradtional pairing is what brought us to be born; a mother and a father.

why cant there be both. trust me...theres enough damn babies in this world without every.single.couple ever formed having one. We cant even feed the babies there are now.

Making a baby isnt the only point of a relationship..sheesh

btw theres homosexuality in nature not just humans

[DVNO]

What! Man and woman, that is how it supposed to be. Male and female. A man finds a woman, of they fall in love and marry and have children it is only natural for them to be together. The tradtional pairing is what brought us to be born; a mother and a father.
Same-sex pairings are just as natural as heterosexual ones are.

[xXl0sth0peXx]

This thread has gone way off topic. It no longer serves its original purpose, and it has gone way past any type of possible debate. I'll be locking this thread, as it isn't going anywhere, and it's just turning into a bash fest. :locked: