Is feminism actually good?

[Cicero]

.....

[ReginaGeorge]

Feminism is good, feminism is very important. You know with the 'making men look like bumbling idiots', that's not feminism, that's women just being angry, and that's okay too. Not everything a women does or a feminist does will represent feminism.

All the things you listed about the typical house wife, feminism isn't against that. If a woman wants to do that, feminism is like 'fuck yes, go do that, you beautiful women you'. Key word: want.

Feminism is about women having the same opportunities as men, not being exactly the same is every aspect. Some women do want the typical house wife life, and that's totally fine. It's when they're are told they HAVE to do this is what is feminism is against and is all about.

Feminism is the movement pushing for women to be able to do whatever they want, just the same as men can.

[Cicero]

Feminism is good, feminism is very important. You know with the 'making men look like bumbling idiots', that's not feminism, that's women just being angry, and that's okay too. Not everything a women does or a feminist does will represent feminism.

All the things you listed about the typical house wife, feminism isn't against that. If a woman wants to do that, feminism is like 'fuck yes, go do that, you beautiful women you'. Key word: want.

Feminism is about women having the same opportunities as men, not being exactly the same is every aspect. Some women do want the typical house wife life, and that's totally fine. It's when they're are told they HAVE to do this is what is feminism is against and is all about.

Feminism is the movement pushing for women to be able to do whatever they want, just the same as men can.
I'd actually want my wife to be a doctor, or a corporate manager or CEO, not a lawyer though. I don't want to have to worry about getting killed if she sues a gang banger :P lol

[Ryhanna]

Well, for every woman who views men as bumbling idiots, there's probably a man who views women as a walking vagina.

Feminism is good, though. I love that women are actively aiming to be treated as equal to men, because they are equal to men. There are some feminists who completely denounce anything traditional for the hell of it, and crucify women who want to live that way, which I don't agree with.

[Hyper]

You know this feminism being "giving women equal opportunities" could just be called respect

And it should start with the parents, since actually almost everything does, I grew up with a single parent, my mom, and I was taught to be respectful of everyone especially women.

Old school values might not give 100% equal opporrunities but they do provide respect for women, at least they do in my family and in the families of my friends.

But isnt it true feminists dont like "sexism" i.o opening doors, paying the bill, stuff like that? I think thats bs if you ask me I am all for respecting women, giving equal opportunities and also a bit of pampering. You cant change nature men and women are different.

[Jess]

It's good as long as it's doesn't get extreme, like women trying to get us more rights or whatever.

[xmojox]

Everyone is equal. Or it should be that way, regardless of gender, race, age, religion, sexual-orientation...anything else that can be used to make us different. It's sad that human beings have to fight for their equal rights at all, let alone, one group at a time.

[Prodigy17]

It's good as long as it's doesn't get extreme, like women trying to get us more rights or whatever.

But women need more rights to make society equal. As an obvious example most women want to have children at some stage in their life. Obviously having a child will take a woman out of the workplace for a while which would give men a chance to overtake her.

Wouldn't a woman need more rights to make up for the disadvantage of having children?

[Human]

I don't particularly like extreme feminism...
I just don't think it's right that men can be portrayed badly but women often can't be as it's sexism or something.

[randomnessqueen]

the concept of feminism is most certainly good
modern feminism, however, is for the most part corrupted

[Human]

the concept of feminism is most certainly good
modern feminism, however, is for the most part corrupted
Yeah I agree with you
From what I've seen, most of the 'modern' feminism involved taking rights from men instead of adding or improving womens.

[peaceNlove]

Feminism is good because women are making themselves heard so that they came have equal rights as men. Like NotSoSilentHill said, feminists aren't just for women being the head of the house or anything like that. If a women wants to be a house wife than they should just like if women wanted to fight on the battle field in the army they should do that too. And I don't thin that men are the only ones who can run a house hold. Why can't they both have an equal role? Why does one have to be the head?

[Gwen]

In my opinion feminism is a mix of great and bad. Some are feminist because they want to be equal to the male gender who has been mostly dominate for a couple of centuries. Unfortunately we always have those women who don't really protest but just plainly bitch about it. Afterwards these same women don't understand that being equal means the full thing, opening doors, pulling out chairs and being bloody nice in general i.e Not acting like your a Saint among women(I saw a lady who got so worked up about it just because she was a female and I should be courtesy to females. She was one of these "feminists").

[workingatperfect]

Ugh, I completely disagree with what you said about men being the leader of the family. However, I don't think women should be the leader either. I think it should be an entirely equal partnership. That's the problem with feminism, a lot of times it gets to the point where instead of putting out the idea that women are equal, a lot tend to say that women are better. Feminism is good, don't get me wrong, but a lot of feminists go overboard.

But more on this men being the leader thing. That's a ridiculous view to have, because it is basically saying that women are less capable of handling a family. Men were not born to lead any more than women are, they've just been conditioned to think that from hundreds of years of people believing that. If a man ever told be he was going to be the leader of the family, I wouldn't have a family with him. I want my husband/father of my kids to be my equal. Not my superior, not my assistant, but my partner. That's how I think it should be. If a woman wants their marriage to be unequal, that's absolutely fine, but I think it's unfair for a man to expect his wife to sit back while he controls everything. Just as I think it's unfair for the women to expect her husband to bring in the money but let her handle everything.

Also:
Typically, when I see the wife in charge, I notice that the husband is very uninvolved and very, um, quiet and in a way, and weak.

Do you not see this reversed when the man is in charge? A timid wife, kind of weak, not involved in anything important? Why is it ok with you to see a marriage like that, but it's not ok for the man to be timid and less involved? That's the point of feminism. Basically, if it's not ok for a man to have to take that role, it's not ok for a women to have to take it either. If he/she wants to, like I said, that's awesome, but I mean if they're pushed into it.

[PinkFloyd]

I think both people in a marriage shuold be equal in EVERY way. That is my opinion.

[Cicero]

Ugh, I completely disagree with what you said about men being the leader of the family. However, I don't think women should be the leader either. I think it should be an entirely equal partnership. That's the problem with feminism, a lot of times it gets to the point where instead of putting out the idea that women are equal, a lot tend to say that women are better. Feminism is good, don't get me wrong, but a lot of feminists go overboard.

But more on this men being the leader thing. That's a ridiculous view to have, because it is basically saying that women are less capable of handling a family. Men were not born to lead any more than women are, they've just been conditioned to think that from hundreds of years of people believing that. If a man ever told be he was going to be the leader of the family, I wouldn't have a family with him. I want my husband/father of my kids to be my equal. Not my superior, not my assistant, but my partner. That's how I think it should be. If a woman wants their marriage to be unequal, that's absolutely fine, but I think it's unfair for a man to expect his wife to sit back while he controls everything. Just as I think it's unfair for the women to expect her husband to bring in the money but let her handle everything.

Also:


Do you not see this reversed when the man is in charge? A timid wife, kind of weak, not involved in anything important? Why is it ok with you to see a marriage like that, but it's not ok for the man to be timid and less involved? That's the point of feminism. Basically, if it's not ok for a man to have to take that role, it's not ok for a women to have to take it either. If he/she wants to, like I said, that's awesome, but I mean if they're pushed into it.

No, in the marriage I want for my family. The wife is just as involved as the husband, but the wife stays at home with the kids while I'd go and make the money. Whenever you see shows where the husband is the leader, you never see a timid uninvolved wife. You see the wife making decisions just like the man.

i agree with the majority of this (http://www.familylife.com/articles/topics/marriage/staying-married/husbands/what-should-be-the-husbands-role-in-marriage#.UVpmLRG9KSM)
(I know someone's gonna bring it out of context. So here's this little bit According to the New Testament, being head of your wife does not mean being her master, but her servant. )

[peaceNlove]

Ugh, I completely disagree with what you said about men being the leader of the family. However, I don't think women should be the leader either. I think it should be an entirely equal partnership. That's the problem with feminism, a lot of times it gets to the point where instead of putting out the idea that women are equal, a lot tend to say that women are better. Feminism is good, don't get me wrong, but a lot of feminists go overboard.

But more on this men being the leader thing. That's a ridiculous view to have, because it is basically saying that women are less capable of handling a family. Men were not born to lead any more than women are, they've just been conditioned to think that from hundreds of years of people believing that. If a man ever told be he was going to be the leader of the family, I wouldn't have a family with him. I want my husband/father of my kids to be my equal. Not my superior, not my assistant, but my partner. That's how I think it should be. If a woman wants their marriage to be unequal, that's absolutely fine, but I think it's unfair for a man to expect his wife to sit back while he controls everything. Just as I think it's unfair for the women to expect her husband to bring in the money but let her handle everything.

Also:


Do you not see this reversed when the man is in charge? A timid wife, kind of weak, not involved in anything important? Why is it ok with you to see a marriage like that, but it's not ok for the man to be timid and less involved? That's the point of feminism. Basically, if it's not ok for a man to have to take that role, it's not ok for a women to have to take it either. If he/she wants to, like I said, that's awesome, but I mean if they're pushed into it.

Exactly! I agree 100%!

[workingatperfect]

No, in the marriage I want for my family. The wife is just as involved as the husband, but the wife stays at home with the kids while I'd go and make the money. Whenever you see shows where the husband is the leader, you never see a timid uninvolved wife. You see the wife making decisions just like the man.

i agree with the majority of this (http://www.familylife.com/articles/topics/marriage/staying-married/husbands/what-should-be-the-husbands-role-in-marriage#.UVpmLRG9KSM)
(I know someone's gonna bring it out of context. So here's this little bit )

But you said the man should be the leader of the family, not that they should be equal. You can't put that in a good light lol. You can be a working man with a stay at home wife, and both be leaders of the family. There doesn't need to be one leader, that's not fair.

Also, TV shows? Really? Let's look at real life, I'll use my own parents. they're divorced for the very reason we're discussing here. The marriage was not equal. Once they had kids, my dad took over. My mom was no longer his partner, more of a nanny. She cleaned, cooked for him every night, raised his kids, and managed to hold a job. But he made every decision. I remember one year, we had one car, their income tax came and my mom wanted a car of her own so that when my dad was working, she could take us places, or go out if she wanted. Now, even though some of that was money my mom had earned from working, my dad took all of it and bought a motorcycle and redid his pool table. Now, perhaps my family is the only exception, but I think it's a lot more likely that TV is the exception since, you know, it's scripted. That's not how life works. When you have one person as the leader of a group, it's not going to be equal.

[Taurus]

Feminism is the sensible belief that women should have access to EVERY opportunity a man has access to. Feminism is the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

[Cicero]

But you said the man should be the leader of the family, not that they should be equal. You can't put that in a good light lol. You can be a working man with a stay at home wife, and both be leaders of the family. There doesn't need to be one leader, that's not fair.

Also, TV shows? Really? Let's look at real life, I'll use my own parents. they're divorced for the very reason we're discussing here. The marriage was not equal. Once they had kids, my dad took over. My mom was no longer his partner, more of a nanny. She cleaned, cooked for him every night, raised his kids, and managed to hold a job. But he made every decision. I remember one year, we had one car, their income tax came and my mom wanted a car of her own so that when my dad was working, she could take us places, or go out if she wanted. Now, even though some of that was money my mom had earned from working, my dad took all of it and bought a motorcycle and redid his pool table. Now, perhaps my family is the only exception, but I think it's a lot more likely that TV is the exception since, you know, it's scripted. That's not how life works. When you have one person as the leader of a group, it's not going to be equal.

Well TV shows can give a perspective of what was popular during that time.

[workingatperfect]

Well TV shows can give a perspective of what was popular during that time.

I'm still confused on what you want. First you say you think men should be the leader, then you say that they should be equal... You can't have both.

[Cicero]

I'm still confused on what you want. First you say you think men should be the leader, then you say that they should be equal... You can't have both.

You can
#1: Be a leader. The Scriptures provide a clear organizational structure for a marriage. Following are a couple of typical Scriptures:

But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ

(1 Corinthians 11:3). Wives, be subject to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ also is the head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the body. But as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives ought to be to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, because we are members of His body

(Ephesians 5:22-30)

In his commentary on Ephesians, William Hendriksen points out that God "... placed ultimate responsibility with respect to the household on the shoulders of the husband . . . The Lord has assigned the wife the duty of obeying her husband yet . . . this obedience must be a voluntary submission on her part, and that only to her own husband, not to every man."

"Head" does not mean male dominance, where a man lords it over a woman and demands her total obedience to his every wish and command. God never viewed women as second-class citizens. His Word clearly states that we are all equally His children and are of equal value and worth before Him. As Galatians 3:28 tells us, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28).

The teaching of the New Testament clearly shows that women are to be respected, revered, and treated as equals with men. Unfortunately, many husbands have not gotten the message. They degrade their wives by neglect or with insensitive and abusive treatment. One cause of the feminist movement may have been that men abandoned God's design. When God presented Eve to Adam in the Garden, Adam received her as a gift of great value to God and him. When husbands, particularly Christian husbands, do not treat their wives as a precious gift from God and helpmate, they can cause those wives to search for a way to find significance and value as persons, often outside God's will.

Are you a leader? Men who are "natural" leaders have no trouble answering the question, yes. They know how to take over, control, guide, and get things done. Some men are not strong or natural leaders. How can they lead in the home?

Paul says the same to everyone. God has placed the husband in the position of responsibility. It does not matter what kind of personality a man may have. Your wife may be resisting you, fighting you, and spurning your attempts to lead, but it makes no difference. I believe our wives want us and need us to lead. You are not demanding this position; on the contrary, God placed you there. You will not lead her perfectly, but you must care for you wife and family by serving them with perseverance.

Scripture does more than assign leadership in a marriage to the husband, however. Those same passages you just read also provide a model for that leadership. The Apostle Paul says that the husband is head of the wife as Christ is head of the church. "This comparison of the husband with Christ reveals the sense in which a man should be his wife's "head." Hendriksen writes, "He is her head as being vitally interested in her welfare. He is her protector. His pattern is Christ Who, as head of the Church, is its Savior!"

#3: Serve your wife. According to the New Testament, being head of your wife does not mean being her master, but her servant. Again, Christ is our model for this type of leadership. Jesus did not just talk about serving; He demonstrated it when he washed His disciples' feet (John 13:1-17). Christ, the Head of the Church, took on the very nature of a servant when He was made in human likeness (Philippians 2:7).

One of the best ways to serve your wife is to understand her needs and try to meet them. Do you know what your wife's top three needs are right now? If she is a young mother, she has a certain set of basic needs. If your children are grown and gone and you are in the empty nest, your wife has a different set of needs that you should try to meet. What is she worried about? What troubles her? What type of pressure does she feel? Learn the answers to questions like that, and then do what you can to reduce her worries, her troubles, her pressures.

What do you know about your wife's hopes and dreams? I bet she has plenty—do you know what they are? Are you cultivating her gifts? If she has a knack for decorating, do you help her develop that?

Another way to serve your wife is to provide for her. This provision first involves assuming responsibility for meeting the material needs of the family. 1 Timothy 5:8 tells us, "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever."

Providing for your wife also means taking the initiative in helping meet her spiritual needs. You do this by modeling godly character, by praying with her, by spending time together in God's Word, and by looking for ways to encourage her spiritually.

To be a leader, a lover, and a servant is to accommodate your life to the life of the gift God has given you—your wife. Give up your life for hers and, at the Judgment Seat of Christ, He will say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant."

[Jess]

Ugh, I completely disagree with what you said about men being the leader of the family. However, I don't think women should be the leader either. I think it should be an entirely equal partnership. That's the problem with feminism, a lot of times it gets to the point where instead of putting out the idea that women are equal, a lot tend to say that women are better. Feminism is good, don't get me wrong, but a lot of feminists go overboard.

But more on this men being the leader thing. That's a ridiculous view to have, because it is basically saying that women are less capable of handling a family. Men were not born to lead any more than women are, they've just been conditioned to think that from hundreds of years of people believing that. If a man ever told be he was going to be the leader of the family, I wouldn't have a family with him. I want my husband/father of my kids to be my equal. Not my superior, not my assistant, but my partner. That's how I think it should be. If a woman wants their marriage to be unequal, that's absolutely fine, but I think it's unfair for a man to expect his wife to sit back while he controls everything. Just as I think it's unfair for the women to expect her husband to bring in the money but let her handle everything.

Also:


Do you not see this reversed when the man is in charge? A timid wife, kind of weak, not involved in anything important? Why is it ok with you to see a marriage like that, but it's not ok for the man to be timid and less involved? That's the point of feminism. Basically, if it's not ok for a man to have to take that role, it's not ok for a women to have to take it either. If he/she wants to, like I said, that's awesome, but I mean if they're pushed into it.

THIS THIS THIS

OP: I must have completely missed the part where you said men should be the leader of the family...but I definitely disagree with that. It should be equal

[workingatperfect]

You can

OK, I'm not even going to bother reading all that. "Man is the head of a woman" and Bible quotes was all I needed to see. I don't care what some stupid book says, being a leader implies inequality. You have more power over whoever you're leading. And still, as I said before, saying that men should lead their families is basically saying women aren't capable. That is exactly what feminism is against, the belief that men rule over women, when really, it should be equal. Your gender/sex does not determine your ability to lead or importance in the world.

[Cicero]

OK, I'm not even going to bother reading all that. "Man is the head of a woman" and Bible quotes was all I needed to see. I don't care what some stupid book says, being a leader implies inequality. You have more power over whoever you're leading. And still, as I said before, saying that men should lead their families is basically saying women aren't capable. That is exactly what feminism is against, the belief that men rule over women, when really, it should be equal. Your gender/sex does not determine your ability to lead or importance in the world.

We all have leaders. Basically having a president causes inequality, having wealth causes inequality, etc. I stopped reading what you said half way when I saw you misquoting.

being head of your wife does not mean being her master, but her servant

[workingatperfect]

I stopped reading what you said half way
Well that's mature. (Before you say what I said was also immature, I don't accept anything religious as a viable argument, so I'm not going to waste my time.)

No. It just does not work like that. You can not be the head of someone, and their servant. If you're serving your wife, clearly she's more in power than you. Men just can't admit that. My dad would probably say "Well I gave her that power, and can take it away so I am still in charge." Ridiculous.

[Cicero]

Well that's mature. (Before you say what I said was also immature, I don't accept anything religious as a viable argument, so I'm not going to waste my time.)

No. It just does not work like that. You can not be the head of someone, and their servant. If you're serving your wife, clearly she's more in power than you. Men just can't admit that. My dad would probably say "Well I gave her that power, and can take it away so I am still in charge." Ridiculous.

________________________________________________________________
One of the best ways to serve your wife is to understand her needs and try to meet them...Another way to serve your wife is to provide for her... Providing for your wife also means taking the initiative in helping meet her spiritual needs.
The above sounds pretty equal to me. And if you read the whole quote , you'd understand exactly what it meant by being a leader.

Not being rude, but what your dad says isnt what I'm saying. We aren't talking about how your dad is. I believe that the man should be the leader, because when you're a leader, you're supposed to be the protector, the provider, and the servant to your wife and family. You can be a leader and a servant. I even have proof. The president is both the leader of the country, but he's also the servant to the country. He serves us. He represents the majority of us. So he's the servant

#3: Serve your wife. According to the New Testament, being head of your wife does not mean being her master, but her servant. Again, Christ is our model for this type of leadership. Jesus did not just talk about serving; He demonstrated it when he washed His disciples' feet (John 13:1-17). Christ, the Head of the Church, took on the very nature of a servant when He was made in human likeness (Philippians 2:7).

One of the best ways to serve your wife is to understand her needs and try to meet them. Do you know what your wife's top three needs are right now? If she is a young mother, she has a certain set of basic needs. If your children are grown and gone and you are in the empty nest, your wife has a different set of needs that you should try to meet. What is she worried about? What troubles her? What type of pressure does she feel? Learn the answers to questions like that, and then do what you can to reduce her worries, her troubles, her pressures.

What do you know about your wife's hopes and dreams? I bet she has plenty—do you know what they are? Are you cultivating her gifts? If she has a knack for decorating, do you help her develop that?

Another way to serve your wife is to provide for her. This provision first involves assuming responsibility for meeting the material needs of the family. 1 Timothy 5:8 tells us, "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever."

Providing for your wife also means taking the initiative in helping meet her spiritual needs. You do this by modeling godly character, by praying with her, by spending time together in God's Word, and by looking for ways to encourage her spiritually.

To be a leader, a lover, and a servant is to accommodate your life to the life of the gift God has given you—your wife. Give up your life for hers and, at the Judgment Seat of Christ, He will say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant." (I was also editing the paragraph you quoted when you quoted it)


You're also categorizing every man who is a family leader as your dad. Which is wrong. You're making it seem like every man who is a family leader is someone who doesn't give a shit about his family and only cares about himself and his power.

[workingatperfect]

________________________________________________________________

The above sounds pretty equal to me. And if you read the whole quote , you'd understand exactly what it meant by being a leader.

Not being rude, but I don't care what your dad says, cause what your dad says has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I believe that the man should be the leader, because when you're a leader, you're supposed to be the protector, the provider, and the servant to your wife and family. You can be a leader and a servant. I even have proof. The president is both the leader of the country, but he's also the servant to the country. He serves us. He represents the majority of us. So he's the servant

(I was also editing the paragraph you quoted when you quoted it)


You're also categorizing every man who is a family leader as your dad. Which is wrong. You're making it seem like every man who is a family leader is someone who doesn't give a shit about his family and only cares about himself and his power.

The president has power over us though. That is the ultimate thing here. Power. Who cares if you buy your wife nice things and let her sit around all day? You still have power over her, as her leader.

But still, why is it the man's job? That's my only question. Without quoting the bible, tell me why it's the man's job to provide.

I am not categorizing every man as my dad, that's putting words in my mouth. I'm making it seem like men who disapprove of women leading families, say that men should be the leader of any family and then quote something that says "... Man is the head of a woman..." come off as sexist. One last thing, what exactly did I misquote??

[Cicero]

The president has power over us though. That is the ultimate thing here. Power. Who cares if you buy your wife nice things and let her sit around all day? You still have power over her, as her leader.

But still, why is it the man's job? That's my only question. Without quoting the bible, tell me why it's the man's job to provide.

I am not categorizing every man as my dad, that's putting words in my mouth. I'm making it seem like men who disapprove of women leading families, say that men should be the leader of any family and then quote something that says "... Man is the head of a woman..." come off as sexist. One last thing, what exactly did I misquote??

I didnt say you misquoted me. I said if you read the whole quote

"#3: Serve your wife. According to the New Testament, being head of your wife does not mean being her master, but her servant. Again, Christ is our model for this type of leadership. Jesus did not just talk about serving; He demonstrated it when he washed His disciples' feet (John 13:1-17). Christ, the Head of the Church, took on the very nature of a servant when He was made in human likeness (Philippians 2:7).

One of the best ways to serve your wife is to understand her needs and try to meet them. Do you know what your wife's top three needs are right now? If she is a young mother, she has a certain set of basic needs. If your children are grown and gone and you are in the empty nest, your wife has a different set of needs that you should try to meet. What is she worried about? What troubles her? What type of pressure does she feel? Learn the answers to questions like that, and then do what you can to reduce her worries, her troubles, her pressures.

What do you know about your wife's hopes and dreams? I bet she has plenty—do you know what they are? Are you cultivating her gifts? If she has a knack for decorating, do you help her develop that?

Another way to serve your wife is to provide for her. This provision first involves assuming responsibility for meeting the material needs of the family. 1 Timothy 5:8 tells us, "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever."

Providing for your wife also means taking the initiative in helping meet her spiritual needs. You do this by modeling godly character, by praying with her, by spending time together in God's Word, and by looking for ways to encourage her spiritually.

To be a leader, a lover, and a servant is to accommodate your life to the life of the gift God has given you—your wife. Give up your life for hers and, at the Judgment Seat of Christ, He will say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant.""

[workingatperfect]

I didnt say you misquoted me. I said if you read the whole quote

We all have leaders. Basically having a president causes inequality, having wealth causes inequality, etc. I stopped reading what you said half way when I saw you misquoting.

You didn't answer my question. Why is it the man's job to provide for his wife? Why isn't it the other way around? (And again, anything, nothing religious please. I want a real reason)

[Cicero]

You didn't answer my question. Why is it the man's job to provide for his wife? Why isn't it the other way around? (And again, anything, nothing religious please. I want a real reason)

Why isn't the notification center alerting me when you quote me?

A mother should be home with the kids, because a mother is one of the most important figure in a child's life.

[workingatperfect]

Why isn't the notification center alerting me when you quote me?

A mother should be home with the kids, because a mother is one of the most important figure in a child's life.

Don't ask me.

What if the couple doesn't have kids yet? Is your wife still expected to be a stay at home mom? Or, what if you're better with kids than your wife? Would you have a problem then with your wife being the main provider? And I think the father is just as important in a kid's life, not just for a son either, but for daughters as well.

PS. You still haven't told me what I misquoted.

[Cicero]

Don't ask me.

What if the couple doesn't have kids yet? Is your wife still expected to be a stay at home mom? Or, what if you're better with kids than your wife? Would you have a problem then with your wife being the main provider? And I think the father is just as important in a kid's life, not just for a son either, but for daughters as well.

PS. You still haven't told me what I misquoted.

I never said you misquoted anything, I don't know what you're talking about.

If the father wants to stay home. Sure let him. Both parents are important. But when it comes down to it, a mother has a unique bond with her kids that's un comparable. That child was inside of her, growing, she went through the pains of labor to have that child. So yes, the mother is more important when it comes down to it. It's great if a wife is the main provider, but I sure wouldn't want that in my marriage.

My wife would tend to the kids while I work hard. Then, so my wife would get a break, we'd hire a nanny to take care of them (which would probably be during the day).

[workingatperfect]

I never said you misquoted anything, I don't know what you're talking about.

If the father wants to stay home. Sure let him. Both parents are important. But when it comes down to it, a mother has a unique bond with her kids that's un comparable. That child was inside of her, growing, she went through the pains of labor to have that child. So yes, the mother is more important when it comes down to it. It's great if a wife is the main provider, but I sure wouldn't want that in my marriage.

My wife would tend to the kids while I work hard. Then, so my wife would get a break, we'd hire a nanny to take care of them (which would probably be during the day).

My god, go look at not my last post, but the one above that.

So you're ok with a stranger raising your kids, but you wouldn't be a stay at home dad even if you handled the kids better than your wife? I mean, not everyone gets that maternal bond, and not everyone is a great mother. Here's another question, you don't have kids and you're both working, would it bother you if your wife made more money than you?

[Cicero]

My god, go look at not my last post, but the one above that.

So you're ok with a stranger raising your kids, but you wouldn't be a stay at home dad even if you handled the kids better than your wife? I mean, not everyone gets that maternal bond, and not everyone is a great mother. Here's another question, you don't have kids and you're both working, would it bother you if your wife made more money than you?

If I raised my kids better and its something I'd enjoy. Then I'd do it. I'm not that type of person. I want to be the one working for the family and I will be. I would only hire a nanny for 2-3 hours a day (for the morning and afternoon) so that's no even enough for it to be considered raising

It'd only bother me if she flaunted it and bragged about it. But at the end whats mine is hers and hers is mine. But she won't make more than me because of my circumstances

[workingatperfect]

Alright fine. So, do you agree that a woman can do just as good a job leading a family as a man can? Cause that's not what you said in the OP.

And, one last time, cause I'm curious.

I said:
OK, I'm not even going to bother reading all that. "Man is the head of a woman" and Bible quotes was all I needed to see. I don't care what some stupid book says, being a leader implies inequality. You have more power over whoever you're leading. And still, as I said before, saying that men should lead their families is basically saying women aren't capable. That is exactly what feminism is against, the belief that men rule over women, when really, it should be equal. Your gender/sex does not determine your ability to lead or importance in the world.

To which you responded:
We all have leaders. Basically having a president causes inequality, having wealth causes inequality, etc. I stopped reading what you said half way when I saw you misquoting.

Explain? I'm confused because I don't see anything incorrect in what I said.

[Cicero]

Alright fine. So, do you agree that a woman can do just as good a job leading a family as a man can? Cause that's not what you said in the OP.

And, one last time, cause I'm curious.

I said:


To which you responded:


Explain? I'm confused because I don't see anything incorrect in what I said.

It depends. But i think that the father was meant to be the leader, but if the mother does a better job than more power to her.

Edit:
Oh I said you misquote me because you only read that one line that said the men should be the leaders, when it later explained what it meant for the man to be the leader

[workingatperfect]

It depends. But i think that the father was meant to be the leader, but if the mother does a better job than more power to her.

That's what keeps confusing me. Is it a father's job to be the leader because he's a man or simply because women are supposedly better parents?

And you know, it's pretty fucking rude of you to continually, ignore my questions.

[Cicero]

That's what keeps confusing me. Is it a father's job to be the leader because he's a man or simply because women are supposedly better parents?

And you know, it's pretty fucking rude of you to continually, ignore my questions.

Recheck the post.

If the father is a good father, its the fathers job to be the leader. But if the mother is better, than the mother should be the leader. I was saying that women should be home with the kids because they are a more important role in a child's life.

That's what keeps confusing me. Is it a father's job to be the leader because he's a man or simply because women are supposedly better parents?

And you know, it's pretty fucking rude of you to continually, ignore my questions.
Listen from 12:00-14:00 (http://ht.salemweb.net/zcast/focus-on-the-family/2013/03-05/327495/focus-on-the-family_2013-03-05_modern-feminism-and-th_20130304210257.mp3?type=streaming)

listen from 13:20-15:05 and 22:38-25:04 (http://ht.salemweb.net/zcast/focus-on-the-family/2013/03-06/327496/focus-on-the-family_2013-03-06_modern-feminism-and-th_20130305213257.mp3?type=streaming)

That's why I believe the man should be the leader, I condensed 60 minutes worth of podcasts into 6 minutes for you. It does contain a little religion. But I made sure I only included the core parts of why men should be the leaders.


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Harry Smith]

Recheck the post.

If the father is a good father, its the fathers job to be the leader. But if the mother is better, than the mother should be the leader. I was saying that women should be home with the kids because they are a more important role in a child's life.

Haha mate are you trapped in the 1950's, wanting the mother to be at home with the kids because that's her place? that's not only years out of date but it's pretty degrading to women. What about in households that only have one parent? Or gay Families? The father shouldn't be the leader of the family- it's not a military unit. You don't need a leader or dedicated roles. Both my parents work, they both cook on different nights. They both pay the Bills and they are both part of an Equal Relationship.

[workingatperfect]

Recheck the post.

If the father is a good father, its the fathers job to be the leader. But if the mother is better, than the mother should be the leader. I was saying that women should be home with the kids because they are a more important role in a child's life.

That's not what you said early.

Whenever I see parents where the mother is the one in charge, I just disagree and think the husband should be in charge.

So, mothers are better parents so they should stay home, but if the mother IS better she's allowed to be the leader of the family... But ultimately you think the man should be the leader. Make up your mind.

Wow, ok, here's what I got from the first one. Women aren't supposed to ask guys out, because it gives them some kind of empowerment that will inspire them to not let their boyfriend push them around. Also that it's ok for a guy to be controlling, but when a girl is, it creates dysfunction. I'll listen to the second one now.

Alright, so now they're promoting gender roles and the idea that men and women are not created equal. OH my god. Are you kidding me? This is a loose quote, "You may have a job that pay more than your husband and maybe it's more practical for you to earn all the money, but you're going against identity... But God creating men to draw identity from work... God created women to draw identity from relationships." Now it's saying that women need men, and it takes courage for a man to control his wife... "Don't take the leadership, do it god's way."

I just.... I can't even. A little religion? It was nothing but religion spewing a bunch of sexist bullshit about how women are fragile and weak and have to have a strong man in their life in order to live up to their full potential.

[DerBear]

Men and Women are equal in my eyes.

A productive relationship is when they make the decisions together and not just have the man be "the head of the family".

[StoppingTime]

A mother should be home with the kids, because a mother is one of the most important figure in a child's life.

That's 100% opinionated and has no place in a debate, like most of what you said.

To me I don't see a man to be predefined as a "leader" and the woman an inferior - that's bullshit from the past. If you're living in a developed country (as you are, and even if you're not that doesn't make it right but that's a different debate) then you have no logical reason to hold this opinion.

Yes, I said your opinion is invalid. Opinions can be stupid, they can be wrong. Everyone's "entitled" to one, but once that opinion is inflicting upon the lives of others negatively, I don't see why it's okay to have.

[Cicero]

That's not what you said early.



So, mothers are better parents so they should stay home, but if the mother IS better she's allowed to be the leader of the family... But ultimately you think the man should be the leader. Make up your mind.

Wow, ok, here's what I got from the first one. Women aren't supposed to ask guys out, because it gives them some kind of empowerment that will inspire them to not let their boyfriend push them around. Also that it's ok for a guy to be controlling, but when a girl is, it creates dysfunction. I'll listen to the second one now.

Alright, so now they're promoting gender roles and the idea that men and women are not created equal. OH my god. Are you kidding me? This is a loose quote, "You may have a job that pay more than your husband and maybe it's more practical for you to earn all the money, but you're going against identity... But God creating men to draw identity from work... God created women to draw identity from relationships." Now it's saying that women need men, and it takes courage for a man to control his wife... "Don't take the leadership, do it god's way."

I just.... I can't even. A little religion? It was nothing but religion spewing a bunch of sexist bullshit about how women are fragile and weak and have to have a strong man in their life in order to live up to their full potential.

It never said women needed men. It said women draw their identity from relationships. I believe that men and women are made differently. Men don't draw as much of their identity out of their relationships like women.

[StoppingTime]

It said women draw their identity from relationships.


...is one of the more bigoted things I've seen on this forum. Why do you think women "draw their identity" from relationships any more or less than men?

[Cicero]

...is one of the more bigoted things I've seen on this forum. Why do you think women "draw their identity" from relationships any more or less than men?

Men and women are not the same! Generally, men think one way while women think the other. If they were truly the same, they'd have the same testosterone/estrogen, they'd have the same sexual parts, etc.

Equality wise they're the same, but generally, they're different. Like women TEND to be more sensitive than men (although that's changing :rolleyes: but i too am sensitive), while men tend to be more about ego than women.

Anything that is different from your own views will seem outlandish or bigoted.

[Harry Smith]

Men and women are not the same! Generally, men think one way while women think the other. If they were truly the same, they'd have the same testosterone/estrogen, they'd have the same sexual parts, etc.

Equality wise they're the same, but generally, they're different. Like women TEND to be more sensitive than men (although that's changing :rolleyes:), while men tend to be more about ego than women.

Anything that is different from your own views will seem outlandish or bigoted.

Your proposing that women need a relationship in order to shape there identity, that is an extremely out of date and sexist view. Your making gross generalizations above about gender. You seem to want to escape back to a time when women were repressed. Good luck with these views in life

[Harley Quinn]

Men and women are not the same! Generally, men think one way while women think the other. If they were truly the same, they'd have the same testosterone/estrogen, they'd have the same sexual parts, etc.

Equality wise they're the same, but generally, they're different. Like women TEND to be more sensitive than men (although that's changing :rolleyes:), while men tend to be more about ego than women.

Anything that is different from your own views will seem outlandish or bigoted.

Hahahaha. Oh wow, if we go by what you said, I'm a male. I have a massive ego and I'm not sensitive at all, do you see where the problem is there? Men and woman, while yes have different sexual organs (you're right there) are not different at all. You just have a different view of society that is very out-dated and to be frank, belongs back there. I would be shocked if a woman actually had the capability to love you when your opinions of women are so degrading it's unreal.

[Cicero]

Your proposing that women need a relationship in order to shape there identity, that is an extremely out of date and sexist view. Your making gross generalizations above about gender. You seem to want to escape back to a time when women were repressed. Good luck with these views in life

I never said that.

Thanks:) I know my wife will enjoy being home with the kids while I work.

[StoppingTime]

Men and women are not the same!

I never said they were?


Generally, men think one way while women think the other.

Hark, a stereotypical gender role. Wow, that's useful in a debate.


If they were truly the same, they'd have the same testosterone/estrogen, they'd have the same sexual parts, etc.

If you were actually convinced I thought women were genetically the same as men, I'm not sure why I should be trying to debate anything you say.


Equality wise they're the same, but generally, they're different. Like women TEND to be more sensitive than men (although that's changing :rolleyes:), while men tend to be more about ego than women.


Hark, more stereotypical gender roles that have nothing to do with a debate.
It doesn't matter what men and women "generally" act like.


Anything that is different from your own views will seem outlandish or bigoted.

No, any time you try and quote the Bible about sexist beliefs (which is hilarious because in those times men basically controlled women and their lives) or tell me that women "generally" think differently, that's bigoted. It's bigoted to say that women are more this, or men are more that. Sure, some women may be more sensitive, but it's not because they're women. There are men just like that, so that argument is baseless.

And, what is it exactly that you were trying to prove from all that? Because it still sounds like you believe men and women have some kind of predefined role in social life.


I never said that.

Thanks:) I know my wife will enjoy being home with the kids while I work.

If she is, who gives a fuck. What if she wants to work though? Will you not marry her?

[Cicero]

I never said they were?



Hark, a stereotypical gender role. Wow, that's useful in a debate.



If you were actually convinced I thought women were genetically the same as men, I'm not sure why I should be trying to debate anything you say.




Hark, more stereotypical gender roles that have nothing to do with a debate.
It doesn't matter what men and women "generally" act like.



No, any time you try and quote the Bible about sexist beliefs (which is hilarious because in those times men basically controlled women and their lives) or tell me that women "generally" think differently, that's bigoted. It's bigoted to say that women are more this, or men are more that. Sure, some women may be more sensitive, but it's not because they're women. There are men just like that, so that argument is baseless.

And, what is it exactly that you were trying to prove from all that? Because it still sounds like you believe men and women have some kind of predefined role in social life.




If she is, who gives a fuck. What if she wants to work though? Will you not marry her?

She can work when the kids are older. I want her to be hardworking, but when we have kids I want her to take care of them until they're old enough to stay home while she works. But she wouldn't have to work, if she did, it'd only be for fun. I'd prefer her to help with charities and do charity work like Bill Gates wife.

[Harry Smith]

women draw their identity from relationships. I believe that men and women are made differently.

You state that women ' draw their identity from relationships'

I never said that.

yet here you deny it?

Thanks:) I know my wife will enjoy being home with the kids while I work.

haha maybe you can stop by an vote for Eisenhower... it's not the 1950's mate. Women want to work, and that is something that your out of date and bigoted views cannot change. Why do you even assume that your wife wants kid? You can't just assume.

[StoppingTime]

She can work when the kids are older. I want her to be hardworking, but when we have kids I want her to take care of them until they're old enough to stay home while she works. But she wouldn't have to work, if she did, it'd only be for fun. I'd prefer her to help with charities and do charity work like Bill Gates wife.

To be honest I don't care in the least about this hypothetical person. Care to respond to any other points I made?

[Cicero]

You state that women ' draw their identity from relationships'



haha maybe you can stop by an vote for Eisenhower... it's not the 1950's mate. Women want to work, and that is something that your out of date and bigoted views cannot change. Why do you even assume that your wife wants kid? You can't just assume.

She would never be my wife in the first place if she didnt want kids. To bad its not the 1950s, better yet, I'd rather it be the 1920s or 1940s, those are my favorite eras.


To be honest I don't care in the least about this hypothetical person. Care to respond to any other points I made?

No point arguing with someone who is as closed minded as you.

[Harley Quinn]

She can work when the kids are older. I want her to be hardworking, but when we have kids I want her to take care of them until they're old enough to stay home while she works. But she wouldn't have to work, if she did, it'd only be for fun. I'd prefer her to help with charities.

You dictate what a woman does? Oh sweet Jesus. Why can't a women work, are you afraid she might be better than you at something, so you have to control every little thing she does for your own self satisfaction? Please stop. You make yourself look ridiculous. How about we switch the roles here and you do the housework, you look after the children and you help charities. See how much fun that is? Sounds so exciting.

[Jess]

You wouldn't marry a woman just because she doesn't want kids? You wouldn't love her just for her being herself? You just want to marry so you can have kids??

[tovaris]

Feminisem is yust sexisem with a fancy name. Both genders are eqal in rights and duties some of which are mor emphasised in one gender than the other. Even thow the construction of our brains is diferent and minds function diferently there is no leding gender.

[Cicero]

You dictate what a woman does? Oh sweet Jesus. Why can't a women work, are you afraid she might be better than you at something, so you have to control every little thing she does for your own self satisfaction? Please stop. You make yourself look ridiculous. How about we switch the roles here and you do the housework, you look after the children and you help charities. See how much fun that is? Sounds so exciting.
I said she can work if she wanted, but it would only be because its something she likes to do. I will have enough financial security so that she doesn't have to work. But if she wants she can. I just said I'd prefer her doing charity work. Yes, how dreadful is it helping those in need? Ugh, that's just terrible :rolleyes:

You wouldn't marry a woman just because she doesn't want kids? You wouldn't love her just for her being herself? You just want to marry so you can have kids??

Well, I do want kids. If she doesn't want kids, then how else would I have kids? By Divorcing her? My life is shortened due to a terminal illness. If I want kids I have to have them young so I can watch them grow up and such.

[Harry Smith]

She would never be my wife in the first place if she didnt want kids. To bad its not the 1950s, better yet, I'd rather it be the 1920s or 1940s, those are my favorite eras.

What if she was unable to have kids due to an accident. A women's primary role isn't to bring up children. You seem to have such a rigid set of guideline's for women.

[StoppingTime]

] But if she wants she can. I just said I'd prefer her doing charity work. Yes, how dreadful is it helping those in need? Ugh, that's just terrible :rolleyes:

Why don't you do it then? Why make it her role?

[Harley Quinn]

I said she can work if she wanted, but it would only be because its something she likes to do. I will have enough financial security so that she doesn't have to work. But if she wants she can. I just said I'd prefer her doing charity work. Yes, how dreadful is it helping those in need? Ugh, that's just terrible :rolleyes:



Well, I do want kids. If she doesn't want kids, then how else would I have kids? By Divorcing her?

You seem to be into the whole good person deed shit, how about you adopt a kid. That's helping someone in need, but no you want to get a girl pregnant because you want kids. You need to stick your head out of the 1920s and realise if you actually want all the things you're proposing, it won't happen unless you have a change of moral attitude.

[Cicero]

What if she was unable to have kids due to an accident. A women's primary role isn't to bring up children. You seem to have such a rigid set of guideline's for women.
Well I want kids, and there is always a way to have them. Whether we use a surrogate (my sperm and her egg in someone else). My life is shortened, and if I want kids, I have to do it early on, I don't have enough time to wait till I'm 40 or so to have kids, cause I won't watch them get married or grow up or anything.

Why don't you do it then? Why make it her role?

Our whole family will do it. But if she wanted to, she will be doing it the majority. Just like Bill Gates family, he himself participates in charity work, its just that his wife has more time and participates in charity more than he does.

If my wife wants to work and do her dream job, I will support it. But I do want those kids old enough to take care of themselves, then she can go off and do whatever she wanted and I'd support most of it. I can't do it, because I would be to busy with work. I would hire a nanny every few days of the week so she can just relax and do whatever.

You seem to be into the whole good person deed shit, how about you adopt a kid. That's helping someone in need, but no you want to get a girl pregnant because you want kids. You need to stick your head out of the 1920s and realise if you actually want all the things you're proposing, it won't happen unless you have a change of moral attitude.

Some people don't want to adopt kids. Some people want kids of their own flesh and blood. I want a wife I can spend my life with, grow old with, share love with, and have kids with. Not just some baby mama. I want us to be best friends and I want us to be close.

[Jess]

Well, I do want kids. If she doesn't want kids, then how else would I have kids? By Divorcing her? My life is shortened due to a terminal illness. If I want kids I have to have them young so I can watch them grow up and such.

Adopt.

If you two marry and then she tells you she can't have children, and didn't tell you before because she was scared, would you just divorce her?

[StoppingTime]

Okay, we're done talking about your hypothetical 1920's-esque personal life. Everyone please get back on topic of the thread.

Also, you have yet to respond to my question/responses from the previous page.

[Cicero]

Adopt.

If you two marry and then she tells you she can't have children, and didn't tell you before because she was scared, would you just divorce her?

I would divorce her because she lied to me. Lied to me about something very important to me. It's like a transgender person lying to his soon to be wife. If that transgender was originally a girl but then became a guy, but never told his wife cause he was "scared" that wife would probably divorce him because he withheld something so important and crucial. I'd want someone of my own flesh and blood. If I couldn't have kids personally (due to sexual reproduction or whatever) then I would rather have no kids at all.

Okay, we're done talking about your hypothetical 1920's-esque personal life. Everyone please get back on topic of the thread.

Also, you have yet to respond to my question/responses from the previous page.



I said you're not open minded so its pointless trying to convince someone who isn't even open to it, cause after all, that is what a debate is. Trying to persuade the other person to your opinion or point of view. It's not an argument, its a discussion. I just mentioned I liked that era (because that Harry guy brought up me being in the 1920s). Someone else is the one who brought it up

[Harry Smith]

I would divorce her because she lied to me. Lied to me about something very important to me. It's like a transgender person lying to his soon to be wife. If that transgender was originally a girl but then became a guy, but never told his wife cause he was "scared" that wife would probably divorce him because he withheld something so important and crucial. I'd want someone of my own flesh and blood. If I couldn't have kids personally (due to sexual reproduction or whatever) then I would rather have no kids at all.



I said you're not open minded so its pointless trying to convince someone who isn't even open to it, cause after all, that is what a debate is. Trying to persuade the other person to your opinion or point of view. It's not an argument, its a discussion. I just mentioned I liked that era (because that Harry guy brought up me being in the 1920s). Someone else is the one who brought it up

Why does everyone refer to me as ' that Harry guy' I have a name which is very clearly labelled. I really don't understand why you see a woman's primary role as the mother and homemaker of the family. Why can't you share the role of raising your own children?

[Cicero]

Why does everyone refer to me as ' that Harry guy' I have a name which is very clearly labelled. I really don't understand why you see a woman's primary role as the mother and homemaker of the family. Why can't you share the role of raising your own children?

I will! But she would probably do 50% while I'd do 40% cause I'd be working (the nanny would do the other 10% such as driving them to school and helping them on homework, that way my wife wouldn't wake up so early and so she doesn't have to work so hard on useless homework). We'd both make decisions. Both the man and wife I believe should make decisions, but the man should be the leader I BELEIVE. The man should do what he thinks will make the family prosper the most. If the husband believes in spanking but the mother doesn't, then both should come to an agreement such as spanking is used in only the most serious offenses. If the mom wants to get her son a car but the father doesn't, the father and mother should meet somewhere.

Here's the thing, I respect women. I'm going to spoil the living hell out of my wife. She's gonna eat the best quality of food (same as kids and I), I'm going to spoil her with a nice car/SUV, I'm going to buy her the nicest fur coats and a bunch of shoes. I'm gonna treat her like my "princess" that's what my dad does with my step mom. My dads main priorities are me and then my step mom, then himself last. That doesn't sound like my step mom is suffering or it doesn't sound like any wife would be suffering, my dad doesn't want my step mom to work, but if she wanted to, he'd support her. But he's also the leader, the protector and the provider. I have been raised to put your wife on a pedestal, I'd open the doors for my wife, I'd surprise her with random gifts, big and small.

I hate how people think I'd just treat my wife as the mother of my kids and not anything else, people seem to think that I'd beat my wife if my dinner wasn't hot or I'd force her to do something she wouldn't want. But if I were dating a girl and she said shed never want kids, then that girl isn't the one for me. It's not that strange ending a relationship because the other person such as girlfriend doesn't want kids. In fact, on sites like Zoosk and eharmony they ask if you want kids and how important it is to you cause they know that too is a big factor. But as a leader, you should know best. Not every father or mother will be a good leader. But traditionally I believe the man should take up that role and the stresses associated with it. I plan on being best friends with my wife, lovers, parents, etc.

[StoppingTime]

I said you're not open minded so its pointless trying to convince someone who isn't even open to it, cause after all, that is what a debate is.

No, I'm not open to you "persuading me" into seeing women as inferior (which you won't admit but that's exactly what you're describing).

[Cicero]

No, I'm not open to you "persuading me" into seeing women as inferior (which you won't admit but that's exactly what you're describing).

So whats the point of debating with you? Exactly. There isn't. In order to debate, you should be open.

[DerBear]

To give input, I wouldn't be open minded with this type of debate as I see women and men equally as I am not sexist or in anyway, shape or form would ever see women as inferior. This type of attitude is very old fashioned.

[Harry Smith]

So whats the point of debating with you? Exactly. There isn't. In order to debate, you should be open.

Whats the point in debating with someone who strongly implies that woman are inferior?

[Cicero]

Whats the point in debating with someone who strongly implies that woman are inferior?

You didn't even read what I said. from Replying to your post.

[Harry Smith]

I will! But she would probably do 50% while I'd do 40% cause I'd be working (the nanny would do the other 10% such as driving them to school and helping them on homework, that way my wife wouldn't wake up so early and so she doesn't have to work so hard on useless homework). We'd both make decisions. Both the man and wife I believe should make decisions, but the man should be the leader I BELEIVE. The man should do what he thinks will make the family prosper the most. If the husband believes in spanking but the mother doesn't, then both should come to an agreement such as spanking is used in only the most serious offenses. If the mom wants to get her son a car but the father doesn't, the father and mother should meet somewhere.

Here's the thing, I respect women. I'm going to spoil the living hell out of my wife. She's gonna eat the best quality of food (same as kids and I), I'm going to spoil her with a nice car/SUV, I'm going to buy her the nicest fur coats and a bunch of shoes. I'm gonna treat her like my "princess" that's what my dad does with my step mom. My dads main priorities are me and then my step mom, then himself last. That doesn't sound like my step mom is suffering or it doesn't sound like any wife would be suffering, my dad doesn't want my step mom to work, but if she wanted to, he'd support her. But he's also the leader, the protector and the provider. I have been raised to put your wife on a pedestal, I'd open the doors for my wife, I'd surprise her with random gifts, big and small.

I hate how people think I'd just treat my wife as the mother of my kids and not anything else, people seem to think that I'd beat my wife if my dinner wasn't hot or I'd force her to do something she wouldn't want. But if I were dating a girl and she said shed never want kids, then that girl isn't the one for me. It's not that strange ending a relationship because the other person such as girlfriend doesn't want kids. In fact, on sites like Zoosk and eharmony they ask if you want kids and how important it is to you cause they know that too is a big factor. But as a leader, you should know best. Not every father or mother will be a good leader. But traditionally I believe the man should take up that role and the stresses associated with it. I plan on being best friends with my wife, lovers, parents, etc.

This a very different picture to the one that you were portraying before but you seem want the man to be in your words the ' leader' and this is something that I cannot simply agree on. Look at single parents or gay Parents- that family structure lacks a ' male' leader yet they still prosper

[Cicero]

This a very different picture to the one that you were portraying before but you seem want the man to be in your words the ' leader' and this is something that I cannot simply agree on. Look at single parents or gay Parents- that family structure lacks a ' male' leader yet they still prosper

Not all the time. My parents are divorced. There has also been large debates whether or not gay married couples have a bad effect on their kid. It sets the up for bullying at such a young age which could ruin a child's young life
Participants who grew up in intact, traditional families reported the lowest average level of problems in their current life, like drug use, unemployment or depressive moods, the study found. Participants who grew up in nontraditional arrangements — with a single, heterosexual parent, in a stepfamily or in a family with a late divorce, for instance — reported higher levels of such problems as adults.

Those who said they had a parent who had had a same-sex relationship fared somewhat worse than those in other nontraditional families. For instance, 38 percent of those who had a lesbian mother said they were currently on public assistance, compared with 31 percent of those whose parents divorced late and 10 percent of those who grew up in a traditional family.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/12/health/study-examines-effect-of-having-a-gay-parent.html?_r=0


But you're getting off topic with the whole divorce and gay parents thing, cause I wasn't talking about that. But there are studies out there that say being raised by gay parents leaves the child with more disadvantages than ones raised by straight parents. Just so you know.

I Said the man should be the leader, but no one read what I had posted what it means to be a leader so ill post it again!

#3: Serve your wife. According to the New Testament, being head of your wife does not mean being her master, but her servant. Again, Christ is our model for this type of leadership. Jesus did not just talk about serving; He demonstrated it when he washed His disciples' feet (John 13:1-17). Christ, the Head of the Church, took on the very nature of a servant when He was made in human likeness (Philippians 2:7).

One of the best ways to serve your wife is to understand her needs and try to meet them. Do you know what your wife's top three needs are right now? If she is a young mother, she has a certain set of basic needs. If your children are grown and gone and you are in the empty nest, your wife has a different set of needs that you should try to meet. What is she worried about? What troubles her? What type of pressure does she feel? Learn the answers to questions like that, and then do what you can to reduce her worries, her troubles, her pressures.

What do you know about your wife's hopes and dreams? I bet she has plenty—do you know what they are? Are you cultivating her gifts? If she has a knack for decorating, do you help her develop that?

Another way to serve your wife is to provide for her. This provision first involves assuming responsibility for meeting the material needs of the family. 1 Timothy 5:8 tells us, "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever."

Providing for your wife also means taking the initiative in helping meet her spiritual needs. You do this by modeling godly character, by praying with her, by spending time together in God's Word, and by looking for ways to encourage her spiritually.

To be a leader, a lover, and a servant is to accommodate your life to the life of the gift God has given you—your wife. Give up your life for hers and, at the Judgment Seat of Christ, He will say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant."

Thanks to everyone whos saying "Your views are very old fashioned" cause its not like I didn't already say I have old fashioned views (I actually did, this was sarcasm).

[StoppingTime]

There's no point in debating with you. You know why? Because you're not open to modern ideas - you've stated that yourself. Why should I be open to a split, unequal society? It's illogical, while you're not open to it because you're likely afraid it'll make you look bad or something.

[Harry Smith]

Not all the time. My parents are divorced. There has also been large debates whether or not a gay married couple has a bad influence on apt heir kid.


But you're getting off topic with the whole divorce and gay parents thing, cause I wasn't talking about that. But there are studies out there that say being raised by gay parents leaves the child with more disadvantages than ones raised by straight parents. Just so you know.

I Said the man should be the leader, but no one read what I had posted what it means to be a leader so ill post it again!



Thanks to everyone whos saying "Your views are very old fashioned" cause its not like I didn't already say I have old fashioned views (I actually did, this was sarcasm).

Great quote the one very thing which says that I'm an abomination for liking guys. You can't use the bible as a source. Academics never use it in structured debate about the role of women. Also the reports saying that Gay parents are just attempts by the right wing anti-gay Establishment to make sure that they can live in there perverse and sickening bubble. Gay parents are just as capable. I'd much rather have gay parents than a family where the man imposes his will over the wife

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Being feminine Is my favorite thing to do. :3
Oh my gosh!!! I am SOOO FAT!!! :/


But feminism? Is a good concept, it's a peace-loving concept. It dislikes warfare. It likes the hottest stuff, and the hottest people ;)
But when it gets ugly, ladies and the feminine males like myself out there, it becomes materialistic greed.

[Cicero]

Great quote the one very thing which says that I'm an abomination for liking guys. You can't use the bible as a source. Academics never use it in structured debate about the role of women. Also the reports saying that Gay parents are just attempts by the right wing anti-gay Establishment to make sure that they can live in there perverse and sickening bubble. Gay parents are just as capable. I'd much rather have gay parents than a family where the man imposes his will over the wife

What the fuck are you on? I never said your an abomination. I quoted the ny times study on gay marriage effects on kids, then I quoted another source that said what it meant to be a leader. You didn't even fucking read that last quote. It said the man doesn't impose over the wife.

Also, last time I checked, the ny times wasn't anti gay. :lol:



There's no point in debating with you. You know why? Because you're not open to modern ideas - you've stated that yourself. Why should I be open to a split, unequal society? It's illogical, while you're not open to it because you're likely afraid it'll make you look bad or something.
I have no idea what I'd look bad about.

[StoppingTime]

What the fuck are you on? I never said your an abomination. I quoted the ny times study on gay marriage effects on kids, then I quoted another source that said what it meant to be a leader. You didn't even fucking read that last quote. It said the man doesn't impose over the wife.

Also, last time I checked, the ny times wasn't anti gay. :lol:

By quoting the Bible, he's inferring that you support the rest of it. Which makes sense, in a way. If you're going to quote an excerpt from a source, you should agree with the whole source in most cases. Not to mention the bible is a horrible source in debates, anyway.

[Cicero]

By quoting the Bible, he's inferring that you support the rest of it. Which makes sense, in a way. If you're going to quote an excerpt from a source, you should agree with the whole source in most cases. Not to mention the bible is a horrible source in debates, anyway.

I was quoting it because that's wht I believe a leader should do and be. Im apart of the catholic church, im a "member" so whats your point of saying i supprt the bible?

Good for you you think it's a horrible source.

[Harry Smith]

What the fuck are you on? I never said your an abomination. I quoted the ny times study on gay marriage effects on kids, then I quoted another source that said what it meant to be a leader. You didn't even fucking read that last quote. It said the man doesn't impose over the wife.

Also, last time I checked, the ny times wasn't anti gay. :lol:

I was referring to the fact that in the eyes of Bible Homosexuality is not approved and your post included references to the lovely book. I don't understand why you have this need for there to have a leader in the family, it just seems so out of date. The New york times was merely reporting the Research, I haven't read the research or it's findings so I can't comment on it's accuracy I just feel it's a gross generalization to state that LGBT parents are not as stable because they are just as capable

[StoppingTime]

I was quoting it because that's wht I believe a leader should do and be. Good for you you think it's a horrible source.

Oh, it's not just me. Anyone (even most religious people *waves*) agree that the Bible shouldn't be brought into secular debates.

Mostly because it's not a secular book...

[Cicero]

I was referring to the fact that in the eyes of Bible Homosexuality is not approved and your post included references to the lovely book. I don't understand why you have this need for there to have a leader in the family, it just seems so out of date. The New york times was merely reporting the Research, I haven't read the research or it's findings so I can't comment on it's accuracy I just feel it's a gross generalization to state that LGBT parents are not as stable because they are just as capable

Do you read? It never said they're not capable.


Oh, it's not just me. Anyone (even most religious people *waves*) agree that the Bible shouldn't be brought into secular debates.

Mostly because it's not a secular book...
That's amazingly awesome. I just said that's what I believe a leader should be, not a dominating husband like that Harry guy says.

[StoppingTime]

That's amazingly awesome. I just said that's what I believe a leader should be, not a dominating husband like that Harry guy says.

Right, what you believe. And you're not going to change from those unequal beliefs. So why start a debate about it when you're not interested in actually saying, "hmm, maybe that could make some sense," instead of, "no you're wrong I have my opinion and I'm keeping it."

And sure, maybe that's what I'm doing. But at the same time, I'm certainly not one who holds the opinion that men should be the leaders in relationships, and women shouldn't.

[Cicero]

Right, what you believe. And you're not going to change from those unequal beliefs. So why start a debate about it when you're not interested in actually saying, "hmm, maybe that could make some sense," instead of, "no you're wrong I have my opinion and I'm keeping it."

And sure, maybe that's what I'm doing. But at the same time, I'm certainly not one who holds the opinion that men should be the leaders in relationships, and women shouldn't.

So say some girl at school came up to me for no reason and punched me, would it be fair to beat the living shit out of her? Cause if that were a guy, I'd do the same.

I find it funny that women say "We're equal to men! We want equality" yet they think they get a special pass on certain stuff. Like if a girl slapped a guy, she thinks he can't slap her back. Yet what she's actually fighting for, is the permission for him to slap her back. Many women are hypocrites in that way. They think "Well I punched you, but you can't punch me cause I'm a girl" yet they're fighting for that same thing, equality.

That's how my friend is, like she'll hurt me yet I did nothing. That is until she said she's for equality, so when she punched me, I punched her. I also stopped holding the door for her so much, now we just take turns

[StoppingTime]

So say some girl at school came up to me for no reason and punched me, would it be fair to beat the living shit out of her? Cause if that were a guy, I'd do the same.

Then do what you would as if someone punched you. Not as if a guy punched you, not as if a girl did. Just the action itself.


I find it funny that women say
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2353959168/hF236AE6D/

Not all women say what you're about to describe.


"We're equal to men! We want equality" yet they think they get a special pass on certain stuff. Like if a girl slapped a guy, she thinks he can't slap her back. Yet what she's actually fighting for, is the permission for him to slap her back. Many women are hypocrites in that way. They think "Well I punched you, but you can't punch me cause I'm a girl" yet they're fighting for that same thing, equality.

Many guys are hypocrites, too. And I can almost assure you that women (and men) who fight for feminism agree that nobody should have a "special pass." What you just did was make a huge over generalization - that's not good.

[Gigablue]

So say some girl at school came up to me for no reason and punched me, would it be fair to beat the living shit out of her? Cause if that were a guy, I'd do the same.

I find it funny that women say "We're equal to men! We want equality" yet they think they get a special pass on certain stuff. Like if a girl slapped a guy, she thinks he can't slap her back. Yet what she's actually fighting for, is the permission for him to slap her back. Many women are hypocrites in that way. They think "Well I punched you, but you can't punch me cause I'm a girl" yet they're fighting for that same thing, equality.

That's how my friend is, like she'll hurt me yet I did nothing. That is until she said she's for equality, so when she punched me, I punched her. I also stopped holding the door for her so much, now we just take turns

If some girl came up to me and randomly hit me, I would hit her back, but I wouldn't hit a guy back either. I don't think gender has any relevance in that. You shouldn't hit anyone, unless absolutely necessary in self defence. There's no need to give special treatment to either gender.

[Cicero]

[QUOTE=Cicero;2211275]So say some girl at school came up to me for no reason and punched me, would it be fair to beat the living shit out of her? Cause if that were a guy, I'd do the same. [/quote[

Then do what you would as if someone punched you. Not as if a guy punched you, not as if a girl did. Just the action itself.


image (https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/2353959168/hF236AE6D/)

Not all women say what you're about to describe.



Many guys are hypocrites, too. And I can almost assure you that women (and men) who fight for feminism agree that nobody should have a "special pass." What you just did was make a huge over generalization - that's not good.

You're right I did. I take that back.

It's not like I'd lay a hand on a girl negatively (other than my friend), I was just using it as an example.

[Emerald Dream]

This is the debate thread, and different viewpoints and opinions are welcomed and encouraged.

However, what is not acceptable is personal attacks towards other members of VT. It is entirely possible to present your argument or beliefs without including a "shot" at someone else...because they do not agree with you, or that you believe they are ignoring you. This forum is about different views, and not about insulting each other.

If this continues, I will be locking this thread. If I see another personal shot, I will be issuing an infraction.

[Sir Suomi]

On the topic of "Treating Women Right", there's always one thing bugging me(This actually could go with any other person in America). Say a man and a women apply for a job with only one spot available. Both the man and the women could provide the same amount of hard work, have the same credentials, identical except in gender. The man gets the job, and the women could then claim that the employer discriminated against her, just for the fact that she was a women competing against a man.

But besides that, I do believe, as long as they expect the same expectations as men, women should be treated equally.

[Emerald Dream]

Thread locked at OP request. :locked: