communism

[britishboy]

Members have no right to ask others to post. Yes it is annoying if people don't respond fully but you simply can't ask people to do something on here. It comes across as rude to tell members to reply to you, it's bordering on harassment.

he didnt mind? and I dont believe it was rude? but sure ok ill politely ask someone to respond to my whole post? and isnt this the backseat moderating you hate so much?;) just joking

and back on topic, communism can only succeed if human nature is changed, something I doubt will happen but again communism should be tried in africa because they have nothing to love, apart from the rich who can move countries

[tovaris]

he didnt mind? and I dont believe it was rude? but sure ok ill politely ask someone to respond to my whole post? and isnt this the backseat moderating you hate so much?;) just joking

and back on topic, communism can only succeed if human nature is changed, something I doubt will happen but again communism should be tried in africa because they have nothing to love, apart from the rich who can move countries

Communism will sucseed when the society evolves.

I admit most of peoples hate is based on false information, looking at the terror and how fast communism falls or becomes evil, however its when people study it closely they actually fear it

Fear it for what?

[britishboy]

Its a saing from roman empire times, give them bread and games.

Whats MEDC and LEDC?
ow sorry I thought you actually ment the government gave us bread:p and more economically developed countries and less economically developed countries, MEDCs are countries which have a high standard of living and a large GDP . LEDCs are countries with a low standard of living and a much lower GDP. Most of the southern hemisphere is less developed, while countries in the northern hemisphere are more developed

Communism will sucseed when the society evolves.



Fear it for what?

maybe when people enjoy working hard for no reward but it still needs a lot of thought and the whole united states of earth ambitions is why your feared lol:p

[tovaris]

ow sorry I thought you actually ment the government gave us bread:p and more economically developed countries and less economically developed countries, MEDCs are countries which have a high standard of living and a large GDP . LEDCs are countries with a low standard of living and a much lower GDP. Most of the southern hemisphere is less developed, while countries in the northern hemisphere are more developed



maybe when people enjoy working hard for no reward but it still needs a lot of thought and the whole united states of earth ambitions is why your feared lol:p


Whel logic tels you thet societies in developed countries are more developed and should therefor transition into communism (sloly) mor esely.

What is so frightrning about a uniter world.

[Walter Powers]

write a complaint, contact the news and papers on their apps it has a section for sending you stories, raise awareness

Haha yeah right. For one, the news media here is dominated by one party (the Democrats) . Second, the idiots in Portland really want this to happen.

[tovaris]

Haha yeah right. For one, the news media here is dominated by one party (the Democrats) . Second, the idiots in Portland really want this to happen.

And thats freedom pf pres for you? Have the pres dominated by one of two parties.

[Walter Powers]

And thats freedom pf pres for you? Have the pres dominated by one of two parties.

It's just because liberals choose to major in the arts more often then conservatives. I believe I heard that 16% of the press identifies are registered Republican whilst over 60% are Democrats.

[tovaris]

It's just because liberals choose to major in the arts more often then conservatives. I believe I heard that 16% of the press identifies are registered Republican whilst over 60% are Democrats.

Howabout we put the ownership in the hands of the people...

[Walter Powers]

And thats freedom pf pres for you? Have the pres dominated by one of two parties.

I'm still free to found a newspaper. And we still have some fair news organizations, such as Fox News and maybe the Wall Street Journal. I bet the news media in your country is the same way; their political leanings are disproportionate to those of the general population.

[tovaris]

I'm still free to found a newspaper. And we still have some fair news organizations, such as Fox News and maybe the Wall Street Journal. I bet the news media in your country is the same way; their political leanings are disproportionate to those of the general population.

not realy both the right and the left hold about the equal amount of strings to pull, sometimes in the same paper.
I was talking about giving the ownership of media conpanies and all other conpanies to the nation.

[britishboy]

not realy both the right and the left hold about the equal amount of strings to pull, sometimes in the same paper.
I was talking about giving the ownership of media conpanies and all other conpanies to the nation.

the nation still have ideas on politics

[tovaris]

the nation still have ideas on politics

so...

and the New-Communism is good for nations like PRC...

Prc isnt communist, you cant call what they are doing communist.

[Left Now]

so...



Prc isnt communist, you cant call what they are doing communist.

The communism which you are talking about is Marxism.PRC's system is not Marxism,but it is still a communist country,this is why i used the word "New-Communism"

[Walter Powers]

not realy both the right and the left hold about the equal amount of strings to pull, sometimes in the same paper.
I was talking about giving the ownership of media conpanies and all other conpanies to the nation.

You want to turn ownership of the press over to the government? I thought you said "communism" had freedom of the press and fair elections! If the government runs the press, the press will print only what the government wants. That's exactly what's happened in North Korea!

How about some advice from our friend Tom?


"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government."

-Thomas Jefferson

[tovaris]

You want to turn ownership of the press over to the government? I thought you said "communism" had freedom of the press and fair elections! If the government runs the press, the press will print only what the government wants. That's exactly what's happened in North Korea!

How about some advice from our friend Tom?


"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government."

-Thomas Jefferson

Not the goverment the people.
You see even your dear tom sais so, inform the people and than they an run and rule stuf.


Like britishboy said, there is a reason "communist" is an insult.

the reson being cold war propaganda, and the ignorance of the person using it as an insult.

[Walter Powers]

Not the goverment the people.
You see even your dear tom sais so, inform the people and than they an run and rule stuf.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Stop being hypocritical. You say you want fair elections yet you also want the government to run the press, which is impossible. That's just asking for abuse on the part of the politicians.

[tovaris]

What the hell is that supposed to mean? Stop being hypocritical. You say you want fair elections yet you also want the government to run the press, which is impossible. That's just asking for abuse on the part of the politicians.

Not the goverment the nation, for avantuly there will be no more institutions of the republick such as goverment, but unfortunatly well be long gone and unable to see that happen

Then what are you going to do when half of the your work force refuse to work in the morning, send in the army?

They will work because they will like what they do and society will be much ,ore evolved.

[Harry Smith]

Not the goverment the nation, for avantuly there will be no more institutions of the republick such as goverment, but unfortunatly well be long gone and unable to see that happen



They will work because they will like what they do and society will be much ,ore evolved.

that's just plain wrong, if your theory was true then there would be much lower employment rates for graduates.

For example in Britain someone goes to university for 4 years and then gets a degree, do they then want to work in McDonald? No so they stay at home and don't go to work.

If your theory was true then we would have all are qualified workforce in jobs. If your introduced communism into Britain tomorrow you would have people refusing to work because humanity can't evolve over night

[tovaris]

that's just plain wrong, if your theory was true then there would be much lower employment rates for graduates.

For example in Britain someone goes to university for 4 years and then gets a degree, do they then want to work in McDonald? No so they stay at home and don't go to work.

If your theory was true then we would have all are qualified workforce in jobs. If your introduced communism into Britain tomorrow you would have people refusing to work because humanity can't evolve over night

Its not about instaling it overnight its about society sloly evolving into it.

true true but when you look at the economics of it, society will come to a stand still

Why would you think so? Remember that economics would be eliminatedfro society.

Your right about that. The country will be so poor they won't have a GDP!

There will be no GDP sincw there will be no money.

"You shouldn't punish people for being poor." What the hell? If you are more successful, you desearve to have the option to purchase better services.

Sucses, Anbition and money oftenndont conect that way, or even emerge.

yes that's pretty much how it works, they both pay taxes so they both get the same standard. You shouldn't punish people for being poor

Ah so you do agre with us on some crutial points.
Your going to need a war for that to happen,I mean Russia had problems but WW1 pretty much confirmed it for them. Back then Lenin and the party thought that communism would spread across the whole of the world but it didn't. A new world order through communism isn't going to occur without ww3

I realy dont think a war is necesary for xapitalismnto be purjet. I meen it has alredy caused two do we realy need a third one? But id WWIII does ocure it will definatly open peoples eies to where capitalism has braught them.

and public support will be needed, something that currently looks impossible

Communism can only originate from the mases.

It would have spread if it was not for Stalin's isolationist policy. Trotsky wanted to spread communism.


Agreed the Russians have just got rid of a anticommunist dictator and than comes another.

[Walter Powers]

Its not about instaling it overnight its about society sloly evolving into it.



Why would you think so? Remember that economics would be eliminatedfro society.



There will be no GDP sincw there will be no money.



Sucses, Anbition and money oftenndont conect that way, or even emerge.



Ah so you do agre with us on some crutial points.


I realy dont think a war is necesary for xapitalismnto be purjet. I meen it has alredy caused two do we realy need a third one? But id WWIII does ocure it will definatly open peoples eies to where capitalism has braught them.



Communism can only originate from the mases.



Agreed the Russians have just got rid of a anticommunist dictator and than comes another.

Even a truly communist society has a net productivity, which is what GDP measures. I'll give you that it would be a very very low number, since a communist society is a poor society.

[britishboy]

Even a truly communist society has a net productivity, which is what GDP measures. I'll give you that it would be a very very low number, since a communist society is a poor society.

they will remove money, and not just poor, impossible to function

[tovaris]

Even a truly communist society has a net productivity, which is what GDP measures. I'll give you that it would be a very very low number, since a communist society is a poor society.

A sommunist society is far richer than a capitalist one im all aspects of life, but the communist world has no money and therefore nothing to mesure"GDP" in (say good by to the all week dolar)

they will remove money, and not just poor, impossible to function

Why would such society fail to function?

[Harry Smith]

A sommunist society is far richer than a capitalist one im all aspects of life, but the communist world has no money and therefore nothing to mesure"GDP" in (say good by to the all week dolar)



Why would such society fail to function?

Because we need money to function, there is a reason nearly every single economist says that we need it. You can't just assume that you know more than them because you can spell a-n-a-r-c-h-i-s-t

[tovaris]

Because we need money to function, there is a reason nearly every single economist says that we need it. You can't just assume that you know more than them because you can spell a-n-a-r-c-h-i-s-t

Economists are taught to work with money, if you eliminate money you eliminate their way of thinking.
Anarchists arent that bad, they would probaby form a coalition with us since we both draw our strength from Marx.

[Amaryllis]

Communism is an ideal that works in theory but due to the nature of human beings, fails to achieve its initial purpose of equality. We are motivated by greed, fear and laziness. There are a multitude of reasons as to why communism does not work in reality, the following being:

1. Reduced incentive to work hard - If everyone receives equal shares of money, food, housing and so on, where is the motivation to work hard? If you have access to the same amount of goods and services no matter how hard you work, why struggle and devote so much of your life to labour?

2. Karl Marx was wrong - Marx's theories revolved around the belief that the price of a good or service is determined by the effort that must be put into producing it. We can see this is not the case as drinks that taste exactly the same as Coca-Cola, produced with the same amount of labour, can be half the price of Coca-Cola. A T-shirt in America can cost triple the price of one in Indonesia. The price of a good or service depends on the demand for it, rather than how much labour is required to produce it.

3. People always want more - Human beings are not content with satisfying only their needs. We have unlimited wants and finite resources. Communism forces everyone to have the same wants and needs satisfied but people always want more, but in communism that is impossible unless you are in a position of power... Which defeats the purpose of communism.

4. They want power - Communism almost always transforms into dictatorship in disguise. The lucky ones reap the benefits of communism. Whilst a majority slave away in the fields with barely enough to eat, a lucky few get the big cars and run the government.

5. Communism is theft - What do you call forcefully taking someone's home and their hard earned wage? Theft. Citizens in a communist state have no choice but to succumb to their "fair" government's rule and when they don't? Mass murder.


Economists are taught to work with money, if you eliminate money you eliminate their way of thinking.
On a side note, economics is not the study of money but the study of how to best satisfy our unlimited wants with our limited resources. Economists attempt to answer the three big economic questions.

1. What goods or services to produce
2. Who to produce it for
3. How it should be produced

Where in capitalist economies, what is produced is determined by what we as consumers demand for using our "dollar votes." In communist communities, this is usually determined by the government. Ultimately, communism controls the way everyone lives. How much you work, your occupation, the goods and services you may have access to and so on are generally determined for you.

[Harry Smith]

Economists are taught to work with money, if you eliminate money you eliminate their way of thinking.
Anarchists arent that bad, they would probaby form a coalition with us since we both draw our strength from Marx.

what? I've found a fault in your grand communist plan, you've got two very unpopular groups.

If it was such a good and popular idea then they would of been elected to the office.

The elecorate doesn't want, the Army doesn't want, the workers don't want, the country doesn't want. Hardly anyone wants communism, it's a flawed plan. You've had it for over 150 years yet no country has been able to follow it because it's unrealistic

[tovaris]

what? I've found a fault in your grand communist plan, you've got two very unpopular groups.

If it was such a good and popular idea then they would of been elected to the office.

The elecorate doesn't want, the Army doesn't want, the workers don't want, the country doesn't want. Hardly anyone wants communism, it's a flawed plan. You've had it for over 150 years yet no country has been able to follow it because it's unrealistic

What unpopular grups?

People who proclamed themselves communist and at first did do communist thinfs were elected to power but they had to mich power that corupted them. We will be electe to ofice just you wait a party will form in two years time and we will be in the next election after that. Even one vote in the parlament is enouth.

[tovaris]

Communism is an ideal that works in theory but due to the nature of human beings, fails to achieve its initial purpose of equality. We are motivated by greed, fear and laziness. There are a multitude of reasons as to why communism does not work in reality, the following being:

1. Reduced incentive to work hard - If everyone receives equal shares of money, food, housing and so on, where is the motivation to work hard? If you have access to the same amount of goods and services no matter how hard you work, why struggle and devote so much of your life to labour?

2. Karl Marx was wrong - Marx's theories revolved around the belief that the price of a good or service is determined by the effort that must be put into producing it. We can see this is not the case as drinks that taste exactly the same as Coca-Cola, produced with the same amount of labour, can be half the price of Coca-Cola. A T-shirt in America can cost triple the price of one in Indonesia. The price of a good or service depends on the demand for it, rather than how much labour is required to produce it.

3. People always want more - Human beings are not content with satisfying only their needs. We have unlimited wants and finite resources. Communism forces everyone to have the same wants and needs satisfied but people always want more, but in communism that is impossible unless you are in a position of power... Which defeats the purpose of communism.

4. They want power - Communism almost always transforms into dictatorship in disguise. The lucky ones reap the benefits of communism. Whilst a majority slave away in the fields with barely enough to eat, a lucky few get the big cars and run the government.

5. Communism is theft - What do you call forcefully taking someone's home and their hard earned wage? Theft. Citizens in a communist state have no choice but to succumb to their "fair" government's rule and when they don't? Mass murder.



On a side note, economics is not the study of money but the study of how to best satisfy our unlimited wants with our limited resources. Economists attempt to answer the three big economic questions.

1. What goods or services to produce
2. Who to produce it for
3. How it should be produced

Where in capitalist economies, what is produced is determined by what we as consumers demand for using our "dollar votes." In communist communities, this is usually determined by the government. Ultimately, communism controls the way everyone lives. How much you work, your occupation, the goods and services you may have access to and so on are dgenerally determined for you.

1. People are taught to be greedy

2. Marx was wrong on certan points, that is why people arent marxist nowerdays.

3. That is not human nature that is hhman colture.

4. Just because the lie to be communist that doesnt meen they are.

5. Communosm promotes choice of work, vocation, etc...

Economist see the world frew the medium of money and removing that they cant seenanything.

[galacticwitch]

socialism rules

[Harry Smith]

What unpopular grups?

People who proclamed themselves communist and at first did do communist thinfs were elected to power but they had to mich power that corupted them. We will be electe to ofice just you wait a party will form in two years time and we will be in the next election after that. Even one vote in the parlament is enouth.

You had a communist party in Britain, it folded at the end of the cold war. One vote isn't enough, for what you want to achieve your going to need to

1) Have control of the British Parliament
2) Have support from the Army
3) Get rid of the royal family

You don't have the first two and it's not going to happen, the army is made up of largely upper class Tories, you haven't got a chance. Your delusional

[Walter Powers]

1. People are taught to be greedy

2. Marx was wrong on certan points, that is why people arent marxist nowerdays.

3. That is not human nature that is hhman colture.

4. Just because the lie to be communist that doesnt meen they are.

5. Communosm promotes choice of work, vocation, etc...

Economist see the world frew the medium of money and removing that they cant seenanything.

1.) Greed is not just human nature, it's animal nature. Believing that even humans are advanced enough to overcome it is ignorant.

2.) Karl Marx is Karl Marx.

3.) Greed is instinct - you want more to better the lives of your family. Even fish have greed!

4.) Not one communist leader has ever benefited less then the general population - unlike with a capitalist society.

5.) Communism promotes unhappiness, inequality on it's greatest level, ZERO real vacation, cheap low end apartments., terrible healthcare, hour waits for groceries, food shortages, oil shortages, mass murder, genocide, and a police state.

Unless of course you are in charge, in which case you re allowed to dictate everything.

Like I've said, for anybody sane to believe in this garbage we need an example of a time communism has worked even half as well as the American capitalist market system.

[tovaris]

You had a communist party in Britain, it folded at the end of the cold war. One vote isn't enough, for what you want to achieve your going to need to

1) Have control of the British Parliament
2) Have support from the Army
3) Get rid of the royal family

You don't have the first two and it's not going to happen, the army is made up of largely upper class Tories, you haven't got a chance. Your delusional

You still have the communist party.
No total control isn't necessary since the change will be gradual.
Support of the army is completely unnecessary since it answers to the institutions of state.
And afcors you need to get rid of the monarch!



1.) Greed is not just human nature, it's animal nature. Believing that even humans are advanced enough to overcome it is ignorant.

2.) Karl Marx is Karl Marx.

3.) Greed is instinct - you want more to better the lives of your family. Even fish have greed!

4.) Not one communist leader has ever benefited less then the general population - unlike with a capitalist society.

5.) Communism promotes unhappiness, inequality on it's greatest level, ZERO real vacation, cheap low end apartments., terrible healthcare, hour waits for groceries, food shortages, oil shortages, mass murder, genocide, and a police state.

Unless of course you are in charge, in which case you re allowed to dictate everything.

Like I've said, for anybody sane to believe in this garbage we need an example of a time communism has worked even half as well as the American capitalist market system.

1. People don't need greed.

2. ?What does that mean?

3. you better the lives of the entire world in communism.

4. Just because the lie to be communist that doesnt meen they are.

5. Where on Earth are you getting this crap?
The People must be happy that is what it is all about. Equalety in all feelds of public life is at the base of communism. What? People must go on vacation to rest from vork. Why would the apartments be crap and low end? If universal free public helthcare is bad than the pope is islamic. Groceries are provided No vaiting. Food is provided why would there be shortages? Oil is not needed (or at lest wil be needed les and les). Murder is againced the communist ideologie, and so is genoside. Also people need to have free choice and free lives a polic state would be againced communisem.
Communism fightes againced dictators and monarchs.
When has the capitalist marked braught freedom happines decent living... to all?

[britishboy]

You still have the communist party.
No total control isn't necessary since the change will be gradual.
Support of the army is completely unnecessary since it answers to the institutions of state.
And afcors you need to get rid of the monarch!



1. People don't need greed.

2. ?What does that mean?

3. you better the lives of the entire world in communism.

4. Just because the lie to be communist that doesnt meen they are.

5. Where on Earth are you getting this crap?
The People must be happy that is what it is all about. Equalety in all feelds of public life is at the base of communism. What? People must go on vacation to rest from vork. Why would the apartments be crap and low end? If universal free public helthcare is bad than the pope is islamic. Groceries are provided No vaiting. Food is provided why would there be shortages? Oil is not needed (or at lest wil be needed les and les). Murder is againced the communist ideologie, and so is genoside. Also people need to have free choice and free lives a polic state would be againced communisem.
Communism fightes againced dictators and monarchs.
When has the capitalist marked braught freedom happines decent living... to all?

the majority of brits want the queen and I cant see her going, but I think its more likely for britian to give in to the republic argument than change the system, and btw the army will not fight for communism, they will either all quit or you have some highly trained and armed people against you

[johnc15]

Communism in human history has been purely a negative thing. However, the ideology of it, with everything divided up equally, could be a good thing in some ways, but it is subject to human fault and greed, and is therefore, a bad thing in human society

[tovaris]

Communism in human history has been purely a negative thing. However, the ideology of it, with everything divided up equally, could be a good thing in some ways, but it is subject to human fault and greed, and is therefore, a bad thing in human society

Whel i see the solution in sloly retaching humankind sloly and after a few generations rech The Communist society.

the majority of brits want the queen and I cant see her going, but I think its more likely for britian to give in to the republic argument than change the system, and btw the army will not fight for communism, they will either all quit or you have some highly trained and armed people against you

why would the army be againced the people?

[britishboy]

Whel i see the solution in sloly retaching humankind sloly and after a few generations rech The Communist society.



why would the army be againced the people?

why would the people be for communism?

[Harry Smith]

Whel i see the solution in sloly retaching humankind sloly and after a few generations rech The Communist society.



why would the army be againced the people?

Will communism help improve your grammar?

[tovaris]

why would the people be for communism?

Why wouldent they be?


Will communism help improve your grammar?

No nothing will or can do that. It will helf future generations however.

[tovaris]

ups.,

[Capto]

Ugh. I can already see just from the previous page that a majority of posts in this thread are complicated by the reputations of failed regimes that followed true communism. Y'all are missing the true purpose of communism.

why would the people be for communism?

Because the basis for a communist society is the empowerment via the transition of ownership and management of capital to proletarian workers' councils. The idea is simple. Workers themselves democratically choose members to such a council, which then empower the proletarians themselves to be able to manage and own their own capital, as opposed to any sort of bourgeois control. Basically, power to the workers and all that stuff. Hoo-rah.

Most of the other views and assumptions about communism are pretty much part of a propaganda-derived weltanshauung developed primarily by the aforementioned 'communist' failed regimes, and also in part by 'anti-communist' nations.

It's honestly quite ridiculous.


Even a truly communist society has a net productivity, which is what GDP measures. I'll give you that it would be a very very low number, since a communist society is a poor society.

Not quite. A communist society, contrary to the stereotypes and assumptions of other people here, does not have a lower GDP than any other nation. This belief stems from the fact that communism is entirely about equality. My distilled key ideology of communism is that it is entirely about granting power over capital to the proletarians. That is all. So a truly communist society compared with a capitalist society will, in essence, assuming that all values of labour, capital, resources, worker distribution, and worker efficiency are the same, will have almost the exact same GDP, with arbitrary differences due to differences in efficiency that originate from the bourgeois/soviet split on capital control.

Though I would agree that a 'true communist' government would have a much lower spending capability, as there'd be no large bourgeois corporations to take advantage of.

EDIT:

there are many many communist states in the world just not you imaginary ones and people only like communism because they are poor and STEAL noney from the wealthy, the most important people in society

Just saw this, and spent a couple of minutes laughing.

I know it's old, but I'll respond with my view.

There's no such thing as a communist state. There is a communist society. To me, any sort of government that takes control of a state and its people is a manifestation of bourgeois power over the proletarian, simply because governments, even capitalist ones, make their money from bourgeois corporations that take unfair advantage of the proletarian society.

Also, saying that the wealthy are the most important people in society confirms your bias against communism, just saying.



And finally, please note that as a nurturing communist, that I am not anti-democratic, merely anti-capitalist. I can't imagine how people got the idea that communism is against democracy as an ideal. Hell, the whole idea of soviets was for a democratically elected body.

[Walter Powers]

Ugh. I can already see just from the previous page that a majority of posts in this thread are complicated by the reputations of failed regimes that followed true communism. Y'all are missing the true purpose of communism.



Because the basis for a communist society is the empowerment via the transition of ownership and management of capital to proletarian workers' councils. The idea is simple. Workers themselves democratically choose members to such a council, which then empower the proletarians themselves to be able to manage and own their own capital, as opposed to any sort of bourgeois control. Basically, power to the workers and all that stuff. Hoo-rah.

Most of the other views and assumptions about communism are pretty much part of a propaganda-derived weltanshauung developed primarily by the aforementioned 'communist' failed regimes, and also in part by 'anti-communist' nations.

It's honestly quite ridiculous.




Not quite. A communist society, contrary to the stereotypes and assumptions of other people here, does not have a lower GDP than any other nation. This belief stems from the fact that communism is entirely about equality. My distilled key ideology of communism is that it is entirely about granting power over capital to the proletarians. That is all. So a truly communist society compared with a capitalist society will, in essence, assuming that all values of labour, capital, resources, worker distribution, and worker efficiency are the same, will have almost the exact same GDP, with arbitrary differences due to differences in efficiency that originate from the bourgeois/soviet split on capital control.

Though I would agree that a 'true communist' government would have a much lower spending capability, as there'd be no large bourgeois corporations to take advantage of.

That's all fine and good, but the bottom line is that there is no example of a wealthy country that is communist, by your definition or any other, anywhere throughout history. However, there are plenty of examples of wealthy capitalist countries throughout history, including the nation of yours truly. The problem is communism is against nature. All animals, including humans, are greedy. Animals, in general, don't want to work for the greater good. Why the hell should I arrive on time to work in the morning if I won't be fired if I don't? Why the hell should I try perfecting this great invention idea if I won't profit off of it? Why the hell should I go to medical school if I'll make the same amountbof money as a janitor? Why the hell should I LIVE if my life is always going to stay relatively the same and is out of my control? You get the idea.

In essence, although your analysis assumes it will stay the same, the values of labor and productivity will drop substantially. That's why communism always becomes poor totalitarianism.

[tovaris]

That's all fine and good, but the bottom line is that there is no example of a wealthy country that is communist, by your definition or any other, anywhere throughout history. However, there are plenty of examples of wealthy capitalist countries throughout history, including the nation of yours truly. The problem is communism is against nature. All animals, including humans, are greedy. Animals, in general, don't want to work for the greater good. Why the hell should I arrive on time to work in the morning if I won't be fired if I don't? Why the hell should I try perfecting this great invention idea if I won't profit off of it? Why the hell should I go to medical school if I'll make the same amountbof money as a janitor? Why the hell should I LIVE if my life is always going to stay relatively the same and is out of my control? You get the idea.

In essence, although your analysis assumes it will stay the same, the values of labor and productivity will drop substantially. That's why communism always becomes poor totalitarianism.

Heyek would have called the sistem you are describing as perfect, as quazy/fake capitalism.
You like the Smurfs? (i dont exactly but its a nice example)
Ants.
Greed is taught not born into the person, general survival drive yes but not greed, and since everething would bprovided for...

Yu should arive to workon time because othervhise you will be fired.
Yu should perfect that invention for the people. What do you think Tesla did do you think he invented for profit or the good of humankind?
You should go to medical school because you want to be a doctor and help people not care about the profit but care about the patients! Isnt that what doctors are about helping people?
Individual life is alvais in control of the individual.
Totalitarism is againce the dommunist idea.

[Capto]

That's all fine and good, but the bottom line is that there is no example of a wealthy country that is communist, by your definition or any other, anywhere throughout history. However, there are plenty of examples of wealthy capitalist countries throughout history, including the nation of yours truly. The problem is communism is against nature. All animals, including humans, are greedy. Animals, in general, don't want to work for the greater good. Why the hell should I arrive on time to work in the morning if I won't be fired if I don't? Why the hell should I try perfecting this great invention idea if I won't profit off of it? Why the hell should I go to medical school if I'll make the same amountbof money as a janitor? Why the hell should I LIVE if my life is always going to stay relatively the same and is out of my control? You get the idea.

In essence, although your analysis assumes it will stay the same, the values of labor and productivity will drop substantially. That's why communism always becomes poor totalitarianism.

Just FYI, I don't believe in the redistribution of wealth, as I believe if that were such, inflation would drive through the roof, currency would be entirely dismantled and devalued, and the economy would more or less cease to function.

No, I don't agree with that, but I believe that wages should be fairly and logically (but not necessarily equally) assigned by a soviet (workers' council, in case anybody for whatever reason associates this with the Union of Not so Socialist Republics).

However, this is where the key problem of communism lies, in my opinion, and this is what I'm pondering on to this day. I invite you to figure out the problem and to present your own view on it.

Also, labor and production I was assuming would remain the same, as on two tabulae rasae nations as described above, there would be no incentive at all for either variable to fluctuate.
EDIT:

I'm also seeing a lot of baseless and unjustified hate on communism that aren't necessary, and are again derivatives of the aforementioned weltanshauung. Come on lads, be civil.

[World Eater]

I'm also seeing a lot of baseless and unjustified hate on communism that aren't necessary, and are again derivatives of the aforementioned weltanshauung. Come on lads, be civil.

Welcome to the debate sections, where most people are anything but civil.

[Capto]

Duly noted, and truly saddened.

[Walter Powers]

Just FYI, I don't believe in the redistribution of wealth, as I believe if that were such, inflation would drive through the roof, currency would be entirely dismantled and devalued, and the economy would more or less cease to function.

No, I don't agree with that, but I believe that wages should be fairly and logically (but not necessarily equally) assigned by a soviet (workers' council, in case anybody for whatever reason associates this with the Union of Not so Socialist Republics).

However, this is where the key problem of communism lies, in my opinion, and this is what I'm pondering on to this day. I invite you to figure out the problem and to present your own view on it.

Also, labor and production I was assuming would remain the same, as on two tabulae rasae nations as described above, there would be no incentive at all for either variable to fluctuate.
EDIT:

I'm also seeing a lot of baseless and unjustified hate on communism that aren't necessary, and are again derivatives of the aforementioned weltanshauung. Come on lads, be civil.

Like I said, the bottom line is that there is no proof "true" communism or any kind of communism for that matter, works. There is overwealming proof capitalism works. What made you want to become a communist in the first place, anyway? What data and cases convinced that's the best way to operate? You sound like a logical person, so I assume there must be some data backing it up. I know I have lots of data that backs up my free market views.

[Capto]

Free-market is irrelevant. I love the idea of the free-market. In principle, it should work internally. What I'm not so keen on is corporations.

Apologies for the short response, but I'm going to bed. I'll have a full response with some quite surprising historical examples probably some time around noon tomorrow.

[britishboy]

Ugh. I can already see just from the previous page that a majority of posts in this thread are complicated by the reputations of failed regimes that followed true communism. Y'all are missing the true purpose of communism.



Because the basis for a communist society is the empowerment via the transition of ownership and management of capital to proletarian workers' councils. The idea is simple. Workers themselves democratically choose members to such a council, which then empower the proletarians themselves to be able to manage and own their own capital, as opposed to any sort of bourgeois control. Basically, power to the workers and all that stuff. Hoo-rah.

Most of the other views and assumptions about communism are pretty much part of a propaganda-derived weltanshauung developed primarily by the aforementioned 'communist' failed regimes, and also in part by 'anti-communist' nations.

It's honestly quite ridiculous.




Not quite. A communist society, contrary to the stereotypes and assumptions of other people here, does not have a lower GDP than any other nation. This belief stems from the fact that communism is entirely about equality. My distilled key ideology of communism is that it is entirely about granting power over capital to the proletarians. That is all. So a truly communist society compared with a capitalist society will, in essence, assuming that all values of labour, capital, resources, worker distribution, and worker efficiency are the same, will have almost the exact same GDP, with arbitrary differences due to differences in efficiency that originate from the bourgeois/soviet split on capital control.

Though I would agree that a 'true communist' government would have a much lower spending capability, as there'd be no large bourgeois corporations to take advantage of.

EDIT:



Just saw this, and spent a couple of minutes laughing.

I know it's old, but I'll respond with my view.

There's no such thing as a communist state. There is a communist society. To me, any sort of government that takes control of a state and its people is a manifestation of bourgeois power over the proletarian, simply because governments, even capitalist ones, make their money from bourgeois corporations that take unfair advantage of the proletarian society.

Also, saying that the wealthy are the most important people in society confirms your bias against communism, just saying.



And finally, please note that as a nurturing communist, that I am not anti-democratic, merely anti-capitalist. I can't imagine how people got the idea that communism is against democracy as an ideal. Hell, the whole idea of soviets was for a democratically elected body.

communism is never ever going to happen and of course im against communism, well done for spotting that and at the end of the day you are horrible unpopular thiefs

[tovaris]

Like I said, the bottom line is that there is no proof "true" communism or any kind of communism for that matter, works. There is overwealming proof capitalism works. What made you want to become a communist in the first place, anyway? What data and cases convinced that's the best way to operate? You sound like a logical person, so I assume there must be some data backing it up. I know I have lots of data that backs up my free market views.

Actually there is lots of evidence that capitalism doesn't work.

communism is never ever going to happen and of course im against communism, well done for spotting that and at the end of the day you are horrible unpopular thiefs

Noon said anything about stealing.

And nobody's willing to wait that long. So how about you start looking for practical solutions to the world's problems and stop pushing for radical change!

Tipical capitalist answer, demand quik revard vithout long term good. You probably have tha fat geen.

north korea is real communism, in the sence it actually exists rather that you impossible, laughable, pure communism dream

There is nothing communist about Korea, sijnce communism in againce tirany, dictatorship of a single person of a smal grup, rule of a slmao grup of family; what part of dictatorship of the ploretaliat isn't clear.

[Walter Powers]

Actually there is lots of evidence that capitalism doesn't work.



Noon said anything about stealing.



Tipical capitalist answer, demand quik revard vithout long term good. You probably have tha fat geen.



There is nothing communist about Korea, sijnce communism in againce tirany, dictatorship of a single person of a smal grup, rule of a slmao grup of family; what part of dictatorship of the ploretaliat isn't clear.

You keep saying you have evidence communism works better then capitalism. Give it up.

[Capto]

Prepare to get Cap-stomped.

Those who say that modern communist ideology is defunct and out of date really have no idea what they're talking about. Marx wrote about the future, first of all, and covered a variety of circumstances. Second of all, communist ideology is evolving with the times. Some people are just too ignorant to see.

Not naming any names, though.

communism is never ever going to happen and of course im against communism, well done for spotting that and at the end of the day you are horrible unpopular thiefs

I'd prefer a real argument, with proper grammar and spelling, but that might be difficult. The thief card doesn't work at all, nor does the unpopular card, at least when dealing with properly educated scholars, as outlined several times previously. So why are you against communism?

Oh, and one more thing.

I don't appreciate sarcasm.

You keep saying you have evidence communism works better then capitalism. Give it up.

No one's ever said that.

Like I said, the bottom line is that there is no proof "true" communism or any kind of communism for that matter, works. There is overwealming proof capitalism works. What made you want to become a communist in the first place, anyway? What data and cases convinced that's the best way to operate? You sound like a logical person, so I assume there must be some data backing it up. I know I have lots of data that backs up my free market views.

Let's discuss capitalism. Not free-market economies, but capitalism. Incidentally, the modern term capitalism was termed by Karl Marx himself. Just a side note. It's also interesting to note the relatively unknown admiration of capitalism's drive of technological innovation and industrial efficiency, as well as his view that capitalism was a necessary historical stage in economic progress, replacing mercantilism, which replaced feudalism. The time has honestly passed for capitalism, and we'll see if this century can realise it.

The basis of capitalism lies with the ability for private persons and corporations to control the distribution and production means of capital assets. Now, what does this mean? This means that it is incredibly easy and simple for any willing proto-bourgeoisie and already existent bourgeoisie to take greater advantage of the proletarians that work for them. Now, you may ask how! Well, this is the single most obvious part. Listen carefully. Giving the bourgeoisie minority power and control over capital assets, means of production, and thus the proletarian labor that forms the majority of people in most any nation-state allows them to take full and unrestricted advantage of the proletarian. Why is this a problem? Think about one of the most basic entities in a capitalist economic society: the corporation. A corporation is an entity of associated bourgeoisie who control a certain amount of proletarian labor for the purpose of their own profit, as well as the minor profit of the proletarian. However, the profit of the proletarian always takes a minor role, taking into account the 'greed' argument that under-educated people like to bring up when arguing against the communist path. Simply put, the new bourgeoisie can use their newfound power over the proletarians to exploit them by lowering wages, having poor working conditions, and can basically disregard the needs of the basic proletarian with little to no consequence at all. But why can't the proletarian worker just leave? Simple. Jobs are a competitive part of society [On a side note, a proto-communist society is no less competitive than a capitalist. There's literally no way to debate this without looking like a fool], and it is favorable to any proletarian to keep the job they have at any cost. Even if they lose their job, there will always be some other person to replace them. So for the bourgeoisie, there is no harm in being cruel to the proletarian under the yoke of their corporation, as they have a generally unending supply of labor, from several sources. Now, in a purely unregulated capitalist society, a corporation can employ proletarians and provide them with no workers' rights, a low wage, and generally treat them poorly, with no negative consequences to the bourgeoisie. They can take full advantage of the general proletarian. Now, let's discuss a regulated capitalist system, like that of the US of A. I'm proud to note that our nation has implemented some measures to the benefit of the proletarian, such as minimum wage, as well as a few anti-trust measures. This does, in principle, provide a higher standard of work to workers employed within the US. However, as you very well know, corporations are entities that defy international borders. The US allows corporations with some minor restrictions, but often corporations are able to outsource their labor to high labor low capital nations: the People's Republic of China, the Republic of Indonesia, the People's Republic of Bangladesh, and the Republic of India all come to mind as high-labor nations with little to no control over foreign investitures and corporations. With the free-market system, as well as corporations taken into account, in an unregulated capitalist society, the rich bourgeoisie become richer, and the poor proletarians become poorer. In a regulated capitalist society, on a side note, the rich bourgeoisie become richer still, but the poor proletarians become richer at a much lower rate, simply due to wage differences and the supply-demand based pricing system of the free-market economy. Also take into account the Phillips Curve for the comparison between unemployment and inflation. If several people are employed, inflation will rise. How much do you think the CEO of a massive corporation makes in comparison to outsourced proletarian workers employed by that corporation?

Now let's discuss macro-economics on a brief sidenote regarding the free-trade policies that come as a direct consequence of capitalism [and which I support, somewhat]. It's common knowledge that 'rich countries impoverish poor ones'. If you don't believe me, for whatever stupid reason, just read about Andre Gunder Frank and the Dependency Theory. Frank said that "Underdevelopment is not due to the survival of archaic institutions and... capital shortage... it is generated by... the development of capitalism itself." Now why is this? Rich western nations were in any circumstance never junior or lesser trading partners to a massive corporate bloc of ridiculously powerful and economically advanced countries, like several undeveloped and poor nations are today. The liberalization of international trade is often extolled by economists as a guaranteed way of helping underdeveloped economies. Nonetheless, the Dependency Theory claims that such free trade policies often lead to situations where richer countries can take advantage of poorer nations. Underdeveloped nations typically are only able to produce raw capital, which are then bought by richer countries [who negotiate the prices, as there's no other alternative for the poor nation to state their own price], who then produce manufactured goods that are sold either internally, or usually between other developed countries. So, what does this mean? This leads to an unbalanced trading system where the majority of poor countries' trade is with richer, more developed nations, while the richer countries' trade is mainly internal or with other developed nations. The Dependency Theory also states that in reality, local resources are usually exploited, workers [employed by corporations within or abroad], and the profits are distributed to foreign shareholders who have a stake in the corporation at hand rather than being reinvested into the local economy. If whoever's reading this has anything in their head close to a brain, they would notice the omnipresent corporation even in this example. It's due to richer countries investing primarily in corporations that belong to those richer countries who outsource labor and buy capital in poorer nations rather than investing in the poorer nations themselves.

Also note that under capitalism, the same 'greed for profit' argument leads to overproduction of goods in regards to demand, for wish of greater profits, devaluing the goods and causing irregular falter in the economy. Thus, the economy will suffer from an endless series of economic crises as prices and employment drastically fluctuate. Interestingly enough, it is in the interest for the capitalist bourgeois to essentially 'arm' his or her workers via the same 'greed' argument. To improve efficiency of a corporation and its proletarian workers, it is in the best interest for a bourgeois head to 'educate' the corporation's workers, in a sense, to provide greater skill and education, which obviously increases efficiency. Capitalism, through aforementioned monopolies and cartels, not only exploit the proletarian worker under corporate yoke, but also consumers. This is obvious enough, through aforementioned reasons. I'd only have to explain this to a fool.

Oh yes, and for an example of the faltering of communism, look at Portugal after 1975. This example is obvious enough, and it's also famous enough such that I don't need to explain it.

That's all for now, class. This took only a couple of hours to write, and I'm disappointed by it quite frankly.

EDIT:
I think they want to work towards making them citizens so that they have more liberal voters.

A little bit old, but this is exactly why Oregon does this. It's always just a game of politics.

In a
free market system, one cannot
offer the bare minimum , cannot
compromise the quality of their
goods , because doing so will drive
them out of business.

Also, the above quote is laughable, and entirely untrue. Monopolies and cartels can and do practice this.


I don't know about where you live, but supporting something without evidence it works doesn't fly in America.

Several American inventions beg to differ. :)

[britishboy]

The thief card doesn't work at all

IT IS THIEF if I dont want to give away my money, can I keep it? NO! with out my concent, taking anything from me is THIEFT!

[Capto]

IT IS THEFT. If I don't want to give away my money, can I keep it? NO! Without my consent, taking anything from me is THEFT!

FTFY. Who said anything about taking money away? Seriously? -_-

[britishboy]

FTFY. Who said anything about taking money away? Seriously? -_-

in commonism money is taken and 'redistributed' to everyone to make everyone all equal

[Capto]

in commonism money is taken and 'redistributed' to everyone to make everyone all equal

Simply untrue. Do some reading please. I can provide you with a plethora of good reading that might help.

[britishboy]

Simply untrue. Do some reading please. I can provide you with a plethora of good reading that might help.

the other communists told me that, how the fuck do you think we will vote you in if you cant even agree how you will fuck up the world

[Capto]

the other communists told me that, how the fuck do you think we will vote you in if you cant even agree how you will fuck up the world

Yes, those are communists. I'm a pseudo-communist, if you didn't know, in that I don't agree with the redistribution of money. Plus, the redistribution of money is something that, if necessary, will need a long time to be properly facilitated.

And finally, if necessary, it will happen based upon the planning of local workers' councils who can slowly redistribute money via transition to capital and standard goods.

And don't talk to me about if we can't agree. For heaven's sake, you're a Brit. You should know of all people about disunity.

[britishboy]

Yes, those are communists. I'm a pseudo-communist, if you didn't know, in that I don't agree with the redistribution of money. Plus, the redistribution of money is something that, if necessary, will need a long time to be properly facilitated.

And finally, if necessary, it will happen based upon the planning of local workers' councils who can slowly redistribute money via transition to capital and standard goods.

And don't talk to me about if we can't agree. For heaven's sake, you're a Brit. You should know of all people about disunity.

look no one wants communism and you try to persuad us when you cant agree!! and tell me what happens to me, im from an upper class family with nice houses what happens to my wealth and houses?

[Capto]

look no one wants communism and you try to persuad us when you cant agree!! and tell me what happens to me, im from an upper class family with nice houses what happens to my wealth and houses?

Nobody agrees on anything. Communism isn't one entity. I'm different from M-L's, and so on. You? Upper class? Nice houses? What happens to your wealth and houses, in my version of a transitional-communist society would be that you have the option to provide some of your several houses for a reimbursement. From then on, there would be no ideal change to your wealth. The only change would be to your income, which would be discussed and settled by a workers' council which you would likely be part of. So I don't get why you're upset.

[britishboy]

Nobody agrees on anything. Communism isn't one entity. I'm different from M-L's, and so on. You? Upper class? Nice houses? What happens to your wealth and houses, in my version of a transitional-communist society would be that you have the option to provide some of your several houses for a reimbursement. From then on, there would be no ideal change to your wealth. The only change would be to your income, which would be discussed and settled by a workers' council which you would likely be part of. So I don't get why you're upset.

im your welcome to your version of communism:) but stiil am happy with how things are

[Harry Smith]

communism is never ever going to happen and of course im against communism, well done for spotting that and at the end of the day you are horrible unpopular thiefs

Lol because capitalism has never been unpopular, you can't just make grand generalizations about an ideology.You need to have a structured argument, you can't just call them horrible and then expect them to back down from their views

[Capto]

Lol because capitalism has never been unpopular, you can't just make grand generalizations about an ideology.You need to have a structured argument, you can't just call them horrible and then expect them to back down from their views

Do my arguments pass your structure tests? :C

[Harry Smith]

Do my arguments pass your structure tests? :C

it just annoys me when people make very flat statements that include a generic insult, I mean it doesn't make your point any better does it?

[Capto]

it just annoys me when people make very flat statements that include a generic insult, I mean it doesn't make your point any better does it?

Exactly. But what annoys me even more is if someone completely ignores one's arguments and just puts forwards their own views without regarding the opposing view.

[tovaris]

You keep saying you have evidence communism works better then capitalism. Give it up.

The meer fact that capitalism doesnt work shouod be evidance enouth.

IT IS THIEF if I dont want to give away my money, can I keep it? NO! with out my concent, taking anything from me is THIEFT!

you just say that because you are greedy. The money wouldnt be taken away by force but redistributed.

[Harry Smith]

The meer fact that capitalism doesnt work shouod be evidance enouth.

Lool it works for me and my family

[Miserabilia]

Lool it works for me and my family

Yes, every system has it flaws but to say capitalism doesn't work is ridicioulous. It works for me and my family and most people I know too.

[tovaris]

Lool it works for me and my family

And the tousands of poor hungry, unemploied, homeles, desesed... people round the world?

[britishboy]

The meer fact that capitalism doesnt work shouod be evidance enouth.



you just say that because you are greedy. The money wouldnt be taken away by force but redistributed.

ok so how about we fix capitalism? rather than implement a untried system? and ok im greed who cares? and it will be takern by force because I wont give it willingly

[Capto]

Capitalism at its root is biased against the proletarian. See my post on the last page.

[tovaris]

ok so how about we fix capitalism? rather than implement a untried system? and ok im greed who cares? and it will be takern by force because I wont give it willingly

QUOTE=britishboy;2367563]ok so how about we fix capitalism? rather than implement a untried system? and ok im greed who cares? and it will be takern by force because I wont give it willingly[/QUOTE]


The communist society requires no force because everione will want to work for the grater good. Besides you will probaby be long dead by the redistribution happens.

Than fix it but i bet that by doing that you will avantuly stumble into socialism that will leed to communism.
www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=183484,

look no one wants communism and you try to persuad us when you cant agree!! and tell me what happens to me, im from an upper class family with nice houses what happens to my wealth and houses?

We dont agre because we arent the same person, diferent people have diferent vievs. This isnt some natzy fashist ideologie that requires people to think the same things because someone sais so. We think alike and that is enouth to start changing the world per better, and than decide what to do with slight disagreements.

[britishboy]

QUOTE=britishboy;2367563]ok so how about we fix capitalism? rather than implement a untried system? and ok im greed who cares? and it will be takern by force because I wont give it willingly


The communist society requires no force because everione will want to work for the grater good. Besides you will probaby be long dead by the redistribution happens.

Than fix it but i bet that by doing that you will avantuly stumble into socialism that will leed to communism.
www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=183484,



We dont agre because we arent the same person, diferent people have diferent vievs. This isnt some natzy fashist ideologie that requires people to think the same things because someone sais so. We think alike and that is enouth to start changing the world per better, and than decide what to do with slight disagreements.[/QUOTE]

but to steal or not to steal is a big disagrement

[Harry Smith]

And the tousands of poor hungry, unemploied, homeles, desesed... people round the world?

Disease isn't related to wealth. Communism wouldn't fix these problems because it's impossible to place it in government.

Also please yes or no, The united States has the worlds biggest economy as of this moment.Did they use capitalism to generate this success? Yes or No?

[Capto]

but to steal or not to steal is a big disagrement

You still think it's theft?

Disease isn't related to wealth. Communism wouldn't fix these problems because it's impossible to place it in government.

Also please yes or no, The united States has the worlds biggest economy as of this moment.Did they use capitalism to generate this success? Yes or No?

Partially. Too lazy to go into it right now.

[tovaris]

Disease isn't related to wealth. Communism wouldn't fix these problems because it's impossible to place it in government.

Also please yes or no, The united States has the worlds biggest economy as of this moment.Did they use capitalism to generate this success? Yes or No?

Communism provides conplet universal helthcare.

Its not sicses of you have starving people, and a overblotearmy. You rely dont get the fact that it isnt about the money dont you.

The communist society requires no force because everione will want to work for the grater good. Besides you will probaby be long dead by the redistribution happens.

Than fix it but i bet that by doing that you will avantuly stumble into socialism that will leed to communism.
www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=183484,



We dont agre because we arent the same person, diferent people have diferent vievs. This isnt some natzy fashist ideologie that requires people to think the same things because someone sais so. We think alike and that is enouth to start changing the world per better, and than decide what to do with slight disagreements.

but to steal or not to steal is a big disagrement[/QUOTE]

who is stealing anithing now?

[Harry Smith]

Communism provides conplet universal helthcare.

Its not sicses of you have starving people, and a overblotearmy. You rely dont get the fact that it isnt about the money dont you.

So does Socialism.

Earlier you said that capitalism doesn't work, yet the worlds most developed economy is the US. And they are capitalist.

So do you accept that in regards to GDP and their wealth it has worked, and do you withdraw your incorrect statement that it doesn't work?

[britishboy]

Communism provides conplet universal helthcare.

Its not sicses of you have starving people, and a overblotearmy. You rely dont get the fact that it isnt about the money dont you.



but to steal or not to steal is a big disagrement

who is stealing anithing now?[/QUOTE]

britian has free health care and we haven't installed a new system and no one is... because your not in power;)

[Capto]

Socialism is on the path to communism.

[tovaris]

So does Socialism.

Earlier you said that capitalism doesn't work, yet the worlds most developed economy is the US. And they are capitalist.

So do you accept that in regards to GDP and their wealth it has worked, and do you withdraw your incorrect statement that it doesn't work?

Socialisn starts solving some problems but not all.
What is with you people and economie and GDP, seriously? Feed the people give them work before saing look at me i have a big useles pile of money i got from taking loans from China...
Lets look at my home country GDP has risen since 1991 to 2008 and jet the unemploiment oevel was much heigher. Similar paterns emerge all over the place because capitaoism, especaly the Heyek version doesnt vork.



britian has free health care and we haven't installed a new system and no one is... because your not in power;)

That statement has nothing to do with what i said. And as i recal this particular redicilous thaught has been taken care of previously.

[Capto]

Phillips Curve might help.

[Harry Smith]

Socialisn starts solving some problems but not all.
What is with you people and economie and GDP, seriously? Feed the people give them work before saing look at me i have a big useles pile of money i got from taking loans from China...
Lets look at my home country GDP has risen since 1991 to 2008 and jet the unemploiment oevel was much heigher. Similar paterns emerge all over the place because capitaoism, especaly the Heyek version doesnt vork.

Why does everyone obsess over employment levels? Half the time when they decrease it's at the decline of the average wage and people are forced to work longer in a job they don't want and they get less money than before.

Also how did you pay for your computer/phone to access the forum?

[tovaris]

Why does everyone obsess over employment levels? Half the time when they decrease it's at the decline of the average wage and people are forced to work longer in a job they don't want and they get less money than before.

Also how did you pay for your computer/phone to access the forum?

Enploiment shovs hom many people can survive on their own.

I paied cash.

[Capto]

Did anyone look at the Phillips Curve? It's quite useful in this discussion. It details the inverse relation between employment levels and inflation.

[Harry Smith]

Enploiment shovs hom many people can survive on their own.

I paied cash.

No, employment doesn't mean you can survive on your own. That's stupid. I'm on the employment register but I can't survive on my own.

Ahh so this terrible pile of money isn't so useless, without capitalism you wouldn't be able to have this debate would you?

[tovaris]

No, employment doesn't mean you can survive on your own. That's stupid. I'm on the employment register but I can't survive on my own.

Ahh so this terrible pile of money isn't so useless, without capitalism you wouldn't be able to have this debate would you?

Les than 600€ of minimum vage and a bit more than 200€ of suport is a big diference, and if the gdp rises jet theenploiment rate drops thats a sine of something going wrong. Minoraty getting rick while majoraty slaves avay for 3 euros an houer.

Unlike the us i have no dept and would share all my acumulated welts with the society at the oment of redistribution.

[Harry Smith]

Les than 600€ of minimum vage and a bit more than 200€ of suport is a big diference, and if the gdp rises jet theenploiment rate drops thats a sine of something going wrong. Minoraty getting rick while majoraty slaves avay for 3 euros an houer.

Unlike the us i have no dept and would share all my acumulated welts with the society at the oment of redistribution.

I can't understand that

[tovaris]

I can't understand that

which part the fact youd rather let people starve to get profit or the one where you would borov extansevly to display positive numbers.

[Capto]

"Less than 600€ for minimum wage and a little more than 200€ for support is a big difference, and if the GDP rises then the employment rate drops. That's a sine of something going wrong. The minority getting rich while the majority slaves away for 3 euros an hour.

Unlike the US, I have no debt and would rather share all my accumulated weallth with the society at the moment of redistribution."

FTFY and Harry Smith.

[Walter Powers]

The meer fact that capitalism doesnt work shouod be evidance enouth.

What is that supposed to mean? If it's so obvious, why can't you produce any eveidence?

[tovaris]

What is that supposed to mean? If it's so obvious, why can't you produce any eveidence?

The starving, and beraly existiong milions are not enouth evidence? Or the fact that 90 per cent welth is held by les than 10 per cent while the rest are left with scraps?

[britishboy]

The starving, and beraly existiong milions are not enouth evidence? Or the fact that 90 per cent welth is held by les than 10 per cent while the rest are left with scraps?

in the west, we have welfare, it supports the poor, if theres a problem with that its a simple change, changing the system isn't, and btw Walter Powers is American haha, they're famous for hating the communist idea:P

[tovaris]

in the west, we have welfare, it supports the poor, if theres a problem with that its a simple change, changing the system isn't, and btw Walter Powers is American haha, they're famous for hating the communist idea:P

Welfere doesnt solve the problem it only puts a little hanzaplast on a woond from a severd limb.

[britishboy]

Welfere doesnt solve the problem it only puts a little hanzaplast on a woond from a severd limb.

people on welfare are treeted the same as a man in communism would be, and Alan Sugars family was on welfare however he is now one of the richest nen in Britian

[tovaris]

people on welfare are treeted the same as a man in communism would be, and Alan Sugars family was on welfare however he is now one of the richest nen in Britian

200€ a month do you inov how much you can buy for that king of money? Keep in mind the prices of neceseties, kWh costs 0,06572 €, a m3 of water 0,686 €, a m3 of gas costs 0,356€, 50€ per meter of firewood, 1kg of flower is 1,5 €.... Try living of that! In communism everething would be provided and free.

[britishboy]

200€ a month do you inov how much you can buy for that king of money? Keep in mind the prices of neceseties, kWh costs 0,06572 €, a m3 of water 0,686 €, a m3 of gas costs 0,356€, 50€ per meter of firewood, 1kg of flower is 1,5 €.... Try living of that! In communism everething would be provided and free.

raise then then, boost the economy, 2 suggestions that are possible;)

[tovaris]

raise then then, boost the economy, 2 suggestions that are possible;)

History teeches us that they way ie the wrong way. Sush a situation was in our little continent in the late 1930s and what folowed? That way has proven to be the wrong way that is why humanety should chose a new better path.

you commies cant make you mind up! first everyone lives off of limited money, then no money at all! do you not study business and economics at your school?! nothing you say is possible!

Why would it be inposible? Because some fat capitalist in a armcher said so?
Afcors a world without money is posible there is nothing imposible about that.

[Capto]

raise then then, boost the economy, 2 suggestions that are possible;)

"Boost the economy" is a ridiculously vague and uninformative statement. It'd be better if you elaborated, but I can't force you, of course.

[Walter Powers]

The starving, and beraly existiong milions are not enouth evidence? Or the fact that 90 per cent welth is held by les than 10 per cent while the rest are left with scraps?

Starving? The developed world is mostly capitalist, and nobody here is actually starving. Top 10 percent may hold the vast majority of the wealth technically, but everybody else is well off because of it. You think we'd have iPhones in a society where nobody was rich enough to invest enough money in the idea to make it practical?

I repeat: if communism is such an obvious way to make the world a better place, why can't you find one way to support your argument other then throwing out unsupported ideas?


200€ a month do you inov how much you can buy for that king of money? Keep in mind the prices of neceseties, kWh costs 0,06572 €, a m3 of water 0,686 €, a m3 of gas costs 0,356€, 50€ per meter of firewood, 1kg of flower is 1,5 €.... Try living of that! In communism everething would be provided and free.

So things will just appear out of thin air without having to work for them? I don't think so...

And I'm as curious as jack. Have you taken any economics or business classes? Do you read the Wall Street Journal like I do?


"Boost the economy" is a ridiculously vague and uninformative statement. It'd be better if you elaborated, but I can't force you, of course.

You too Capto. Economics classes? Read the WSJ?

[Capto]

The developed world is mostly capitalist, and nobody here is actually starving.

Excuse me? Nobody?

What kind of person told you that!?

[Walter Powers]

Excuse me? Nobody?

What kind of person told you that!?

Are you starving? Nobody at school is ever starving. Most beggers are lazy fakers: Investigative reporters have followed them home to McMansions. And for Pete's sake, we have food stamps and welfare! How in the world can you starve with programs like that at your disposal?

[tovaris]

Starving? The developed world is mostly capitalist, and nobody here is actually starving. Top 10 percent may hold the vast majority of the wealth technically, but everybody else is well off because of it. You think we'd have iPhones in a society where nobody was rich enough to invest enough money in the idea to make it practical?

I repeat: if communism is such an obvious way to make the world a better place, why can't you find one way to support your argument other then throwing out unsupported ideas?




So things will just appear out of thin air without having to work for them? I don't think so...

You obvoiusly have a twisted wiew of society. Look out tze window i a major coty in the all „mighty” usa. And tel me there are no starving people.
What part of a world without money cant you understand. There is no inveatment of miney because there is no money.

This seems almost to stupid to reply to... All the arguments from conplet, universal free heltgcare, redistribution of welth to united world... Seem to have gon right past you.

Afcors things dont aper this isnt a magic shov you get all you need without need for any kind of curency.

Are you starving? Nobody at school is ever starving. Most beggers are lazy fakers: Investigative reporters have followed them home to McMansions. And for Pete's sake, we have food stamps and welfare! How in the world can you starve with programs like that at your disposal?

Are you serious? Are you gong to go on the street and tel people they dont have to eat no mor, are you going to tel them they can simly lieve if read cros pakages?



And I'm as curious as jack. Have you taken any economics or business classes? Do you read the Wall Street Journal like I do?




You too Capto. Economics classes? Read the WSJ?

No i dont read that propaganda rag.

[saea97]

Most beggers are lazy fakers: Investigative reporters have followed them home to McMansions.

Contemporary estimates (source: http://www.endhomelessness.org/library/entry/the-state-of-homelessness-2013) suggest that there are upwards of 600,000 people in the US who are homeless (and so would be in a position to be begging). How many cases of private investigators following beggars home to McMansions can you cite that qualifies you to make such an alarming, disparaging and thoughtless statement?

According to a study in the journal of the Canadian Medical Association, "(70%) [of beggars] stated that they would prefer a minimum-wage job, typically citing a desire for a 'steady income' or 'getting off the street.' However, many felt they could not handle conventional jobs because of mental illness, physical disability or lack of skills." And you're painting those three reasons as "lazy fakers"? Crikey, you're as right-wing as any a person I've ever met.

[Capto]

Are you starving? Nobody at school is ever starving. Most beggers are lazy fakers: Investigative reporters have followed them home to McMansions. And for Pete's sake, we have food stamps and welfare! How in the world can you starve with programs like that at your disposal?

No wonder. You're from Portland.

EDIT:

You too Capto. Economics classes? Read the WSJ?

Yep. Take economic classes at a local college. Do a lot of theoretical economic research too. Don't pay too much attention to the Wall Street Journal though.

[Walter Powers]

No wonder. You're from Portland.

EDIT:



Yep. Take economic classes at a local college. Do a lot of theoretical economic research too. Don't pay too much attention to the Wall Street Journal though.

I'm from Portland so...? What? If your trying to imply Portland isn't a partly capitalist place, you are wrong. We just have lots of hippies who like Obama and their free stuff. And I actually live in a suburb of Portland, about half ours drive from the city center depending on traffic (the hippies decided light rail no one rides is more important then a good highway system).

To every one else: I'll respond I promise, but right now I need sleep.

[britishboy]

History teeches us that they way ie the wrong way. Sush a situation was in our little continent in the late 1930s and what folowed? That way has proven to be the wrong way that is why humanety should chose a new better path.



Why would it be inposible? Because some fat capitalist in a armcher said so?
Afcors a world without money is posible there is nothing imposible about that.

the soviet union was formed with communist intentions, north vietnam fought for them but both failed, because humans are not ants and we want to have hope and try to improve ourselves

[tovaris]

the soviet union was formed with communist intentions, north vietnam fought for them but both failed, because humans are not ants and we want to have hope and try to improve ourselves

USSR was formed on communist interests but made many mistakes which took them avay from acheving their goal, the fist big mistake being the one party sistem.
As i recal N Vietnam von...

Communism builds upon enproving the world, on peoples hope of a better world. Why would You take these things avay? (tipical capitalst evil)

Communism is about stealing money from people who earned it. That doesn't sound very free to me.

No stealing! (How many times does this need to be said to get it into your head?)
I fail to understand how you get your statement of no freedom from conplet free choice, movement etc...

[britishboy]

USSR was formed on communist interests but made many mistakes which took them avay from acheving their goal, the fist big mistake being the one party sistem.
As i recal N Vietnam von...

Communism builds upon enproving the world, on peoples hope of a better world. Why would You take these things avay? (tipical capitalst evil)



No stealing! (How many times does this need to be said to get it into your head?)
I fail to understand how you get your statement of no freedom from conplet free choice, movement etc...

so it failed? and theh did win but failed to create pure communism, same with cuba and what you want to do meets the definition of stealing

[Stronk Serb]

USSR was formed on communist interests but made many mistakes which took them avay from acheving their goal, the fist big mistake being the one party sistem.
As i recal N Vietnam von...

Communism builds upon enproving the world, on peoples hope of a better world. Why would You take these things avay? (tipical capitalst evil)



No stealing! (How many times does this need to be said to get it into your head?)
I fail to understand how you get your statement of no freedom from conplet free choice, movement etc...


Stealing for Walter means bringing equality to the workers, so that they are equal to their employers.

[tovaris]

so it failed? and theh did win but failed to create pure communism, same with cuba and what you want to do meets the definition of stealing

We learned from history and know what mistakes not to repeet.
Fidel Castro was never communist neder did he clame to be.
And again what part of a perfect world of equals with no money, is stealing?

[britishboy]

We learned from history and know what mistakes not to repeet.
Fidel Castro was never communist neder did he clame to be.
And again what part of a perfect world of equals with no money, is stealing?

look, communism has practically no support and wont get it unless it can prove stuff

[tovaris]

look, communism has practically no support and wont get it unless it can prove stuff

It has suport, Whole partyes worth of suport worldwide.
Prove stuf like vhat? That capitalism sucks? That humanety is in desperet need of a new sistem? That equalety would bring pece?

[Capto]

look, communism has practically no support and wont get it unless it can prove stuff

Practically no support is incorrect.

There's a substantial American Communist Party, and I'm sure a similar one in the UK as well.

[britishboy]

Practically no support is incorrect.

There's a substantial American Communist Party, and I'm sure a similar one in the UK as well.

yes but tiny compared to other party's abd have no seets im parliament

[tovaris]

yes but tiny compared to other party's abd have no seets im parliament

Partyes strole in and out of parlament all the time.
And communist parties have seets in parlaments and asembelies acros the world, and from these seets they are sloly turning the wheels to a better worls one grain of sand on top of a nother and sloly there is a palace.

[Harry Smith]

Partyes strole in and out of parlament all the time.
And communist parties have seets in parlaments and asembelies acros the world, and from these seets they are sloly turning the wheels to a better worls one grain of sand on top of a nother and sloly there is a palace.

Do you understand politics or are you just delusional?

Communism is a thing of the past, the cold war is over. Communism had it's change back in the 1970's and the 1980's to come across in a Democratic way but the bottom line is that the electorate don't want communism

[tovaris]

Do you understand politics or are you just delusional?

Communism is a thing of the past, the cold war is over. Communism had it's change back in the 1970's and the 1980's to come across in a Democratic way but the bottom line is that the electorate don't want communism

Do you understand politich history and plane ideological fact at all?
The cold war haf nothing to do with communism, it was a batle for dominence between two blocs (admitingly one did later on lean towards socialism but the cold war stil zad nothing to do with communism).
If the people dont want dommunism, and a mor social state; than why are they waving read flags, flags with the fivepointed read star, singing the international and all kinds of other revolutionary songs in the streets?

[Harry Smith]

Do you understand politich history and plane ideological fact at all?
The cold war haf nothing to do with communism, it was a batle for dominence between two blocs (admitingly one did later on lean towards socialism but the cold war stil zad nothing to do with communism).
If the people dont want dommunism, and a mor social state; than why are they waving read flags, flags with the fivepointed read star, singing the international and all kinds of other revolutionary songs in the streets?

Are you saying the cold war wasn't to with communism?

Definition of the Eastern block

[QUOTE]The term Eastern Bloc or Communist Bloc refers to the former communist states of Central and Eastern Europe, generally the Soviet Union and the countries of the Warsaw Pact.[QUOTE]

People aren't waving red flags in Britain, they aren't singing the international and there is not a sign of revolution. Once again your argument is based on waffle

[tovaris]

Are you saying the cold war wasn't to with communism?

Definition of the Eastern block
The term Eastern Bloc or Communist Bloc refers to the former communist states of Central and Eastern Europe, generally the Soviet Union and the countries of the Warsaw Pact.

People aren't waving red flags in Britain, they aren't singing the international and there is not a sign of revolution. Once again your argument is based on waffle

Do we realy need to go ower the „communist” country debate AGAIN? You know hwhat the facts are, you know what the both sides propaganda was. And you have been what communism is abot. Why do you keep pushing these redicilous ideas? Cold war was a war between Moscow and Washington for world dominence, not about ideological diferences.

The mases were careing around the fivepointed star jist on the 25th June. (Not in britan, the world is round after all).

www.drugisvet.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/vseslovenska_vstaja2.jpg

www.lublana.si/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/2013-01-13-2.-Vseslovenska-Ljudska-Vstaja-in-Protestival-016.jpeg

[Harry Smith]

Do we realy need to go ower the „communist” country debate AGAIN? You know hwhat the facts are, you know what the both sides propaganda was. And you have been what communism is abot. Why do you keep pushing these redicilous ideas? Cold war was a war between Moscow and Washington for world dominence, not about ideological diferences.

The mases were careing around the fivepointed star jist on the 25th June. (Not in britan, the world is round after all).

www.drugisvet.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/vseslovenska_vstaja2.jpg

www.lublana.si/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/2013-01-13-2.-Vseslovenska-Ljudska-Vstaja-in-Protestival-016.jpeg

2 photo's doesn't prove anything, by your theory the Nazis are still popular. lol the world is round? Both your photo's are from the balkans

Your just a revonist,it's classic. It's how politcs survive. You denounce the person before you to avoid the blame, it's clear with blairites and brownites in Britain.

You're just separating yourself from the cold war because communism lost and your trying to move away from that ideology.

[tovaris]

2 photo's doesn't prove anything, by your theory the Nazis are still popular. lol the world is round? Both your photo's are from the balkans

Your just a revonist,it's classic. It's how politcs survive. You denounce the person before you to avoid the blame, it's clear with blairites and brownites in Britain.

You're just separating yourself from the cold war because communism lost and your trying to move away from that ideology.

Two photos are to give you a little taste.
Balkans are a mountin range and a penincila and some georaphers would say that they werent even taken on the penincila some would disagre, but they would agre about the mountins and that it wasent anywhere neer them. Anyway, why does it mather its Europe, its Earth.
I never said the Natzy are stil widly popular, but if you folow the news you will se that there are stil scumbags that folow that ideologie.

I am seperatimg my self from the cold was for obwious resons... It has nothind to do with a certan ideologie! And besides your people were up to their necks in the cold war dung while my people (and by that i an NOT refering to parties that called themselves communist) stered far away.

[Harry Smith]

Two photos are to give you a little taste.
Balkans are a mountin range and a penincila and some georaphers would say that they werent even taken on the penincila some would disagre, but they would agre about the mountins and that it wasent anywhere neer them. Anyway, why does it mather its Europe, its Earth.
I never said the Natzy are stil widly popular, but if you folow the news you will se atat there are stil scumbags that folow that ideologie.

I am seperatimg my self from the cold was for obwious resons... It has nothind to do with a certan ideologie! And besides your people were uo to their nechs in the cold war dung while my people (and by that i an NOT refering to parties that called themselves communist) stered far away.

what's a nechs?

[tovaris]

what's a nechs?

¿?¿?

[Harry Smith]

! And besides your people were up to their necks in the cold war dung while my people (and by that i an NOT refering to parties that called themselves communist) stered far away.

¿?¿?

this

[tovaris]

this

Yes neck...

[Harry Smith]

Yes neck...

you said nechs

[tovaris]

you said nechs

whi cares,
if you stil have a point plese present it or admit that communism is better

[Harry Smith]

whi cares,
if you stil have a point plese present it or admit that communism is better

That's above Ironic.

Communism isn't better, capitalism suits me perfectly fine. I'm protected in the work place by several laws, I pay tax to support the infrastructure of my country and I'm happy to have freedom of speech, something communism would need to remove otherwise it would end up splintering

[britishboy]

whi cares,
if you stil have a point plese present it or admit that communism is better
theres nothing wrong with western capitalism, the poor are protected and theres a few problems with capitalism so communism is obviously right is no argument
That's above Ironic.

Communism isn't better, capitalism suits me perfectly fine. I'm protected in the work place by several laws, I pay tax to support the infrastructure of my country and I'm happy to have freedom of speech, something communism would need to remove otherwise it would end up splintering
this exactly

[tovaris]

That's above Ironic.

Communism isn't better, capitalism suits me perfectly fine. I'm protected in the work place by several laws, I pay tax to support the infrastructure of my country and I'm happy to have freedom of speech, something communism would need to remove otherwise it would end up splintering

communism builds upon freedom of speeck, of educatiin, of work, of movement etc...
And imagine a world without taxes, a world controled by the people insted of coroparet interest.


theres nothing wrong with western capitalism, the poor are protected and theres a few problems with capitalism so communism is obviously right is no argument

this exactly

Tge poor are protected... How exactly? By being given the right to be poor and beroy exist?

Capitalism obviously doesnt work, if you think you can thing of something better than modern communism go ahed, but plese see frew the dirty wale of caputalism.

[Harry Smith]

Sommunism builds upon freedom of speeck, of educatiin, of work, of movement etc...
And imagine a world without taxes, a world controled by the people insted of coroparet interest.

Sommunism? That sounds like a drug. All I see above is Rhetoric, Rhetoric and more rhetoric

[tovaris]

Sommunism? That sounds like a drug. All I see above is Rhetoric, Rhetoric and more rhetoric

the s and c are close on the iee board what do you vant from me...

If you find any spelling mistakes or typographical errors in my posts please report them to me immediately so that I can correct them.

[Harry Smith]

the s and c are close on the iee board what do you vant from me...

If you find any spelling mistakes or typographical errors in my posts please report them to me immediately so that I can correct them.

Rhetoric Rhetoric Rhetoric

[tovaris]

Rhetoric Rhetoric Rhetoric

so you have run out of actual arguments and have now resorted to trying to undermine an argument on acaunt of a single letter tipo? You think your vane rhetoric practice of repetin rhetoric ower and ower again will do you and your sily arguments any good?

And what about that post is empty rhetoric? I simpoy corected a typograhical eror.

[Harry Smith]

so you have run out of actual arguments and have now resorted to trying to undermine an argument on acaunt of a single letter tipo? You think your vane rhetoric practice of repetin rhetoric ower and ower again will do you and your sily arguments any good?

And what about that post is empty rhetoric? I simpoy corected a typograhical eror.

Lool this is going to go around in circles, if anything you've ran out of arguments. All you say is

Communism will be good for everyone because it will be a land of milk and honey etc. Your world theory is so weak it's laughable, it ignores religion,culture, business and the armed forces

[tovaris]

Lool this is going to go around in circles, if anything you've ran out of arguments. All you say is

Communism will be good for everyone because it will be a land of milk and honey etc. Your world theory is so weak it's laughable, it ignores religion,culture, business and the armed forces

I dont recal mentioning dery or bee products...?

What point exactly is in your opinion week, because you seem to simply dismis communism without thinking about it?

Religion is a free choice of a individual, colture is a thing of a nation and comunity and isnt efected by social sistem change, buisnis should bring welth TO people not take it avay from the mases, and most inportantly the army serves the nation not some out of date sistem if the nation wants something its army has no say in it.

[Harry Smith]

I dont recal mentioning dery or bee products...?

What point exactly is in your opinion week, because you seem to simply dismis communism without thinking about it?

Religion is a free choice of a individual, colture is a thing of a nation and comunity and isnt efected by social sistem change, buisnis should bring welth TO people not take it avay from the mases, and most inportantly the army serves the nation not some out of date sistem if the nation wants something its army has no say in it.

It was me referencing something from Tony Blair and whole facade of new labour.

Your idea of having universal communism very much affects culture, for example many arabic cultures oppose communism and many catholics oppose communism.

Your Business idea is as I said before rhetoric, business draws on the different skills, creates Jobs and trade and pays their workers based on skills.

The Army does have a say in it because the Army is part of the nation

[tovaris]

It was me referencing something from Tony Blair and whole facade of new labour.

Your idea of having universal communism very much affects culture, for example many arabic cultures oppose communism and many catholics oppose communism.

Your Business idea is as I said before rhetoric, business draws on the different skills, creates Jobs and trade and pays their workers based on skills.

The Army does have a say in it because the Army is part of the nation

Many arabic countries atempted and even sucseeded in instaling socialsm. (taht sould be encouragment enouth to take the next step)
I dont see why catolics opose communism, i meen the good book tels them to work together help echother and kee avay from money.

In the Socialist world republic there will be no pay because there would be no money, and yes in a way buisnis will be changed.

The army is the nations tool, and when on duty solders act as orderd to. Becide why would such a smal portion of the nation be againced change yust because they work as solders?

[Harry Smith]

Many arabic countries atempted and even sucseeded in instaling socialsm. (taht sould be encouragment enouth to take the next step)
I dont see why catolics opose communism, i meen the good book tels them to work together help echother and kee avay from money.

In the Socialist world republic there will be no pay because there would be no money, and yes in a way buisnis will be changed.

The army is the nations tool, and when on duty solders act as orderd to. Becide why would such a smal portion of the nation be againced change yust because they work as solders?

We're talking about communism, not socialism. Very very different.

The Good book also tells them not to touch up boys doesn't it?

What's the point in business if there is no money? You'll force a skilled workforce out of a job. I can tell you that the British Army wouldn't support communism in a million years

[tovaris]

We're talking about communism, not socialism. Very very different.

The Good book also tells them not to touch up boys doesn't it?

What's the point in business if there is no money? You'll force a skilled workforce out of a job. I can tell you that the British Army wouldn't support communism in a million years

Socialism is the first step of many.

That is their internal mather, and they also shouldnt eat shelfish make war etc...

Everione will have jobs dont wory about that. The whole point is that avantuly we have a world without any courenc.
The british army would stil be supbordenate to the british people. (in a republis, lime my, the people shose the head of state who is also the head of the armed forces, therefore the people control tha army which has no say in their decisions). And even if the army (as an organisation) doesnt suport the peoples choice for change, what are they going to do about it?

[Harry Smith]

Socialism is the first step of many.

That is their internal mather, and they also shouldnt eat shelfish make war etc...

Everione will have jobs dont wory about that. The whole point is that avantuly we have a world without any courenc.
The british army would stil be supbordenate to the british people. (in a republis, lime my, the people shose the head of state who is also the head of the armed forces, therefore the people control tha army which has no say in their decisions). And even if the army (as an organisation) doesnt suport the peoples choice for change, what are they going to do about it?

The people do not control an Army in a republic, that's just plain stupid. The people do not give the orders, the generals do

[tovaris]

The people do not control an Army in a republic, that's just plain stupid. The people do not give the orders, the generals do

So what! They stil cant do anithong to stop the peoples will!

[britishboy]

communism builds upon freedom of speeck, of educatiin, of work, of movement etc...
And imagine a world without taxes, a world controled by the people insted of coroparet interest.




Tge poor are protected... How exactly? By being given the right to be poor and beroy exist?

Capitalism obviously doesnt work, if you think you can thing of something better than modern communism go ahed, but plese see frew the dirty wale of caputalism.

your confused with Africa, read these, thay are British but the Americans and rest of Europe have similar rights

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_rights_at_work_e/basic_rights_at_work.htm

[tovaris]

your confused with Africa, read these, thay are British but the Americans and rest of Europe have similar rights

www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_rights_at_work_e/basic_rights_at_work.htm

What are you triing to say

[britishboy]

What are you triing to say

that our workers are protected and so communism will not help anyone in that sence

[tovaris]

that our workers are protected and so communism will not help anyone in that sence

protected to stay poor? Capitalosm is pathetis saing they alter it to protect paople whrn infact they only make the rich richer and the poor porer.

[Harry Smith]

protected to stay poor? Capitalosm is pathetis saing they alter it to protect paople whrn infact they only make the rich richer and the poor porer.

No. No.NO

It doesn't do this.

Many rich people go bankrupt and became poor

Many poor work hard and become richer.

Your old saying is rather wrong mate

[britishboy]

protected to stay poor? Capitalosm is pathetis saing they alter it to protect paople whrn infact they only make the rich richer and the poor porer.

No. No.NO

It doesn't do this.

Many rich people go bankrupt and became poor

Many poor work hard and become richer.

Your old saying is rather wrong mate

exactly what harry said and look at alan sugar for god sake, born on welfare and now very rich!

[tovaris]

No. No.NO

It doesn't do this.

Many rich people go bankrupt and became poor

Many poor work hard and become richer.

Your old saying is rather wrong mate

Exeptions prove the rule...
It stil doesnt change the fact that most of our society is poor whila smal grupof people are out enjoing themselves on mountins of cash.

exactly what harry said and look at alan sugar for god sake, born on welfare and now very rich!

look at the mases in favelas slums, tousands of people sleeping in benches train stations, so many houngryk so many ill

[Harry Smith]

Exeptions prove the rule...
It stil doesnt change the fact that most of our society is poor whila smal grupof people are out enjoing themselves on mountins of cash.

So will you stop using that stupid saying?

Most of our society is actually middle class, we have a very high GDP in Britain along with low levels of poverty, we have a welfare system which protects poorer people

[britishboy]

look at the mases in favelas slums, tousands of people sleeping in benches train stations, so many houngryk so many ill

is that britians problem? or americas? no, maybe africa may like communism but we dont need it, thanks but no thanks

[tovaris]

So will you stop using that stupid saying?

Most of our society is actually middle class, we have a very high GDP in Britain along with low levels of poverty, we have a welfare system which protects poorer people

I'm not about to discus your particular flaued sistem because there is a whole World out there, not just blody Britan, a planet of humans that need and deserve a better life.

Whel great if most people are middle clas than the diference will be hardly noticable once you decide to enbark on the path of communism.

is that britians problem? or americas? no, maybe africa may like communism but we dont need it, thanks but no thanks

Would you stop thinking so narely, there is a World we all shere there is not only Britan.

[Harry Smith]

Im not about to discus your particular flaued sistem because thre is a while World out there, not just britan, a plante of humans that need and deserve a better life.

Whel great if most people are middle slas than the diference will be ahrdly noticable once you decide to enbark on the path of communism.

This is getting nearly unbearable, I respect that English isn't your first language but I simply can't understand what you mean.

[britishboy]

Im not about to discus your particular flaued sistem because thre is a while World out there, not just britan, a plante of humans that need and deserve a better life.

Whel great if most people are middle slas than the diference will be ahrdly noticable once you decide to enbark on the path of communism.

you remind me of the british nazi party, you think your gonna rise up and succeed, try africa, not the most developed countries
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4931/fg0.png (http://img401.imageshack.us/i/fg0.png/)


Would you stop thinking so nerely, there is a world we all shere there is not only Britan.

but why the fuck would britian fuck up our country for the chance it might help africa and our enemy countries?

[tovaris]

This is getting nearly unbearable, I respect that English isn't your first language but I simply can't understand what you mean.

read again plese, and reread my signature if you would be soking.

Thank you.

you remind me of the british nazi party, you think your gonna rise up and succeed, try africa, not the most developed countries
image (http://img401.imageshack.us/i/fg0.png/)

but why the fuck would britian fuck up our country for the chance it might help africa and our enemy countries?

The people need to chose we only present them with a choice.

Communism didnt kill a single person, since it is againce that.

What is your obesesion with Africa today?

The developed countries should be at the core of the revolution.

Britan, how about tze world, how about the humanety. And besides britav would only be enproving its sistems not frowing them out the window NO fucking up going on there.

I disagree. The world needs it's classes and money. It's just how things work and it keeps order. Should their be as large of a gap as their is between classes? No. But there is no changing it, so the best thing to do is accept the facts.

Classes didnt alvais exisit you know... Neder did capitalism. Avantuly there wil be no clases no money and we will all be economicly and in the volumen of opetunities equal.

I was referring to the Parliamentary Democracy, and how it's more up to date with today's world than Communism. Seriously, Communism is dead. Ever wonder why the Iron Curtain came crashing down? It's because Communism is a corrupt system of government, who preaches good intentions, but ends in total crack down upon it's populations. It's an evil thing, something that I hope can be utterly crushed to the point of no return.

No, I'm not going to hold a grudge against the United Kingdom for events that happen over 200 years ago. Hell, our two countries for the last 100 years have had one of the strongest relationships with each other than any other country in the present world.

Are you asking if I was part of a Fascist military organization? Hell no. Fascists are as corrupt as Commies. I'll stick to having my freedom, thank you very much.

ok now mr head case general (im referning to patton not you persnaly)

Monarchies belong to the middle ages not a modern society.

How can communism be dead? It is alive now more than ever.

He Ion curtin had nothing to do with communism.

Communism isnt s corupt model of goverment since it is for the full rule of The People. Absolutly nothing evil about it.


But your peopl are so good at holding grudges, and making up reasons to do so. So why didnt you satay a part of their enpire?

Of yyou eint black your white(political colours you seem to b, evil political sides those who identify with these colours i might ad.)

[AyVannah]

Classes didnt alvais exisit you know... Neder did capitalism. Avantuly there wil be no clases no money and we will all be economicly and in the volumen of opetunities equal.
1. I didn't even POST on this thread so don't drag me into this! Dx
And two, there was always some form of separation between the people (like men higher than women, men worked, women cooked and took care of children and whatnot in BC era and stuff). Like in ancient tribes, there were people like elders who were higher and stuff and considered respected. Hence a social class. Then there is also means of trade. Even in BC times there was money. Money is a very important part of society and it is too late to change that now. Even in trading, something would have to be worth more than something else like if I wanted to get a cow or something from you I would not give you a bean for it. I would offer up something like silver or something (Without standard money).
Also, I imagine that without social classes, people would have very little respect for elders, teachers, adults, people who work harder than they do or anything! And if money was still an important hong and everyone got paid the same, how is that fair to someone who built a company from the ground up compared to someone who works at a fast food restaurant? (Not to say that that is not a difficult job. Trust me, I know how difficult that can be )

[Sir Suomi]

read again plese, and reread my signature if you would be soking.

Thank you.



The people need to chose we only present them with a choice.

Communism didnt kill a single person, since it is againce that.

What is your obesesion with Africa today?

The developed countries should be at the core of the revolution.

Britan, how about tze world, how about the humanety. And besides britav would only be enproving its sistems not frowing them out the window NO fucking up going on there.



Classes didnt alvais exisit you know... Neder did capitalism. Avantuly there wil be no clases no money and we will all be economicly and in the volumen of opetunities equal.



ok now mr head case general (im referning to patton not you persnaly)

Monarchies belong to the middle ages not a modern society.

How can communism be dead? It is alive now more than ever.

He Ion curtin had nothing to do with communism.

Communism isnt s corupt model of goverment since it is for the full rule of The People. Absolutly nothing evil about it.


But your peopl are so good at holding grudges, and making up reasons to do so. So why didnt you satay a part of their enpire?

Of yyou eint black your white(political colours you seem to b, evil political sides those who identify with these colours i might ad.)

I'll let you know, Patton was our best damn General to ever visit the modern day battlefield. If he not died in his fatal car accident, he would have marched our men right up to Moscow and would've dealt with you Reds, who were already planning to stab us in the back the first chance you got. If you've got a problem with him, you most certainly have a problem with me.

Did you not read what I said? I was referring to a Democratic Parliamentary government, not a Monarchy. The U.K is a Democratic Parliamentary style of government. The Royal family serves no other purpose than to be a symbol of the government. They have no real power, which means they are not a fucking Monarchy.

Tell me, when in all of recorded history, has a country used Communism, and is still a major world power today? Exactly. The Iron Curtain was the symbol of the boundary of Communist oppression. When it fell, Communism fell. It. Is. Dead.

We revolted due to us being bullheaded, and not wishing to pay a higher amount of tax, and not having our voice in the opinion. I personally think we could have avoided the entire conflict if both sides would not have been so arrogant. But there's nothing I can do about it, and I'm sure as hell not going to be mad at the Brits for a war we technically started. They were just defending what they thought was there's.

I've not a clue what you said there. Maybe try again.

[tovaris]

I'll let you know, Patton was our best damn General to ever visit the modern day battlefield. If he not died in his fatal car accident, he would have marched our men right up to Moscow and would've dealt with you Reds, who were already planning to stab us in the back the first chance you got. If you've got a problem with him, you most certainly have a problem with me.

Did you not read what I said? I was referring to a Democratic Parliamentary government, not a Monarchy. The U.K is a Democratic Parliamentary style of government. The Royal family serves no other purpose than to be a symbol of the government. They have no real power, which means they are not a fucking Monarchy.

Tell me, when in all of recorded history, has a country used Communism, and is still a major world power today? Exactly. the iron curtain was the symbol of the boundary of Communist oppression. When it fell, Communism fell. It. Is. Dead.

We revolted due to us being bullheaded, and not wishing to pay a higher amount of tax, and not having our voice in the opinion. I personally think we could have avoided the entire conflict if both sides would not have been so arrogant. But there's nothing I can do about it, and I'm sure as hell not going to be mad at the Brits for a war we technically started. They were just defending what they thought was there's.

I've not a clue what you said there. Maybe try again.

You may get to Moscow but none can concord it.

The monarch is still born into the power but that belongs to another thread.

When in recorded history do you have a country that installed communism (Lenin tried it in Russia, but his efforts were ruined by Stalin)?
The iron curtain had nothing to do with communism!

You are white guard waving a black flag the worst kind... Is what I said.

Dude, you're talking to a communist. You think he cares what the people want?

Oh on the centenary my comrade communism builds on the peoples choice.

[britishboy]

You may get to Moscow but none can concord it.

The monarch is still born into the power but that belongs to another thread.

When in recorded history do you have a country that installed communism (Lenin tried it in Russia, but his efforts were ruined by Stalin)?
The iron curtain had nothing to do with communism!

You are white guard waving a black flag the worst kind... Is what I said.



Oh on the centenary my comrade communism builds on the peoples choice.

let's not get into another debate on a monarchy you no nothing about!

oh in communism I have so much choice:D but wait... I cant...
earn money
have a job I like
choice what I live in
be unique
have fun
dislike the leader
dislike communism....
thats not freedom thats a dictatorship!

[tovaris]

let's not get into another debate on a monarchy you no nothing about!


i agree lets stop talking about monarchies in this thread


earn money

There would be no money.


have a job I like

The whole point is that one would like their job.


choice what I live in

I see no reson why one couldn't chose the place of their living.


be unique

Every individual is unique.


have fun

Party all night...


dislike the leader

Why not?


dislike communism....

I see no reson for disliking it but there would be noone stopping you.


thats not freedom thats a dictatorship!
Dictatorship of who? Your countryman? The People?

[britishboy]

The whole point is that one would like their job.


really? dustbin man? the men who work in sewers?

[tovaris]

really? dustbin man? the men who work in sewers?

Some pouple like simple ocupations, besides we have machines to do drodge work.

[britishboy]

Some pouple like simple ocupations, besides we have machines to do drodge work.

yes but not thousands that are needed
whats the point of trying if theres no point?

[tovaris]

yes but not thousands that are needed
whats the point of trying if theres no point?

Machines.

I don't understand that question plese refraze.

[Sir Suomi]

You may get to Moscow but none can concord it.

The monarch is still born into the power but that belongs to another thread.

When in recorded history do you have a country that installed communism (Lenin tried it in Russia, but his efforts were ruined by Stalin)?
The iron curtain had nothing to do with communism!

You are white guard waving a black flag the worst kind... Is what I said.


Oh I do believe that the combined forces of The United States, The United Kingdom, France, and all of the other allies would have easily crushed the Reds. With ease, actually. And I think most people here would agree with me, the world would have been a much better place if Communism would have been eradicated at that point.

What power?! They have no fucking power in the government. All they do is serve as a figurehead for the United Kingdom! Jesus Christ do you even listen.

Look at a history book from 1945 to 1991. The Soviet scum tried expanding their corrupt sense of government all around the world. And all of these countries have either fallen, or are now shambles of countries, including your beloved Russia. The collapse of the Iron Wall symbolized the collapse of Communism's reign of power in the world.

And the only flag I'm waving is the flag of the free world, which had to fight you damn Commies just to stay alive.

[britishboy]

Oh I do believe that the combined forces of The United States, The United Kingdom, France, and all of the other allies would have easily crushed the Reds. With ease, actually. And I think most people here would agree with me, the world would have been a much better place if Communism would have been eradicated at that point.

What power?! They have no fucking power in the government. All they do is serve as a figurehead for the United Kingdom! Jesus Christ do you even listen.

Look at a history book from 1945 to 1991. The Soviet scum tried expanding their corrupt sense of government all around the world. And all of these countries have either fallen, or are now shambles of countries, including your beloved Russia. The collapse of the Iron Wall symbolized the collapse of Communism's reign of power in the world.

And the only flag I'm waving is the flag of the free world, which had to fight you damn Commies just to stay alive.

yep agree with everything!

[tovaris]

I'll



Look at a history book from 1945 to 1991. The Soviet scum tried expanding their corrupt sense of government all around the world. And all of these countries have either fallen, or are now shambles of countries, including your beloved Russia. The collapse of the Iron Wall symbolized the collapse of Communism's reign of power in the world.
And the only flag I'm waving is the flag of the free world, which had to fight you damn Commies just to stay alive.


The iron curtin had, has nothing to do with communism.


And the only flag I'm waving is the flag of the free world, which had to fight you damn Commies just to stay alive.

Communism fights for freedom of all people and peoples of the world.



Oh I do believe that the combined forces of The United States, The United Kingdom, France, and all of the other allies would have easily crushed the Reds. With ease, actually. And I think most people here would agree with me, the world would have been a much better place if Communism would have been eradicated at that point.
What power?! They have no fucking power in the government. All they do is serve as a figurehead for the United Kingdom! Jesus Christ do you even listen.


I an not going to comment on the points about WWIII or monarchs since i dont feel they belonge in this thread.

yep agree with everything!

That goes to you too.

That was to be one of the worst metaphors I've ever heard. And I don't see how communism will rid the world of poverty. Unless it involves forcing people to get a job or killing them, which is inhumane.
Communism would solve quite a few problems including poverty, because it doesnt tolerate it.
Why would everione today want to kill people its imoral you know? And afaince the communist idea.

[britishboy]

for communism to work, every single person out of 6.9 billion people must think like a ant and that is impossible

[Harry Smith]

The iron curtin had, has nothing to do with communism.



Communism fights for freedom of all people and peoples of the world.





I an not going to comment on the points about WWIII or monarchs since i dont feel they belonge in this thread.



That goes to you too.


Communism would solve quite a few problems including poverty, because it doesnt tolerate it.
Why would everione today want to kill people its imoral you know? And afaince the communist idea.

Fights for freedom? Don't my parents have the freedom to keep the house they worked for

[Walter Powers]

The iron curtin had, has nothing to do with communism.



Communism fights for freedom of all people and peoples of the world.

I AM TIRED OF THIS DEBATE! I'm not going to spend my entire day trying to reason with a radical commie who completely refuses to accept fact, logic, and reason! Communism has been tried! It never works! Capitalism has also been tried, and it usually does! That's the bottom line! Communism is theft and abusive of the people...always! So stop with the same old propaganda talking points!

[tovaris]

for communism to work, every single person out of 6.9 billion people must think like a ant and that is impossible

No they must think like an indeendant human being.

Fights for freedom? Don't my parents have the freedom to keep the house they worked for

The freedon ot thaught, the freedom of mind the freedom of spech of movement,....etc...
The hous is not theirs it belonges to The People.

I AM TIRED OF THIS DEBATE! I'm not going to spend my entire day trying to reason with a radical commie who completely refuses to accept fact, logic, and reason! Communism has been tried! It never works! Capitalism has also been tried, and it usually does! That's the bottom line! Communism is theft and abusive of the people...always! So stop with the same old propaganda talking points!

have you ever plaied Monopoly?
Whel communism is like that exeptthere isno moneyor private property. While capitalism is like that exeptone plaier plaies with two dice theother with one one gets 50 when passing go the other 500...

[Harry Smith]

The freedon ot thaught, the freedom of mind the freedom of spech of movement,....etc...
The hous is not theirs it belonges to The People.

So they don't have the freedom of keeping what they earned, great!

You talk about freedom thought, you are aware that not a single government in the world has elected a communist leader or government

[tovaris]

So they don't have the freedom of keeping what they earned, great!

You talk about freedom thought, you are aware that not a single government in the world has elected a communist leader or government

They cant own anithing or ern money... Noone can in communism.

Actuly they have but unfortunatly they failed in instituting a communist sistem due to the fact the spciety wasnt developed enouth.

[Harry Smith]

They cant own anithing or ern money... Noone can in communism.

Actuly they have but unfortunatly they failed in instituting a communist sistem due to the fact the spciety wasnt developed enouth.

So if society isn't developed why are you bothering

[tovaris]

So if society isn't developed why are you bothering

You arent too bright.

TO DEVELOP THE SOCIETY, TO MAKE THEM REALIZE.... TO SHOW THEM WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL.

[britishboy]

You arent too bright.

TO DEVELOP THE SOCIETY, TO MAKE THEM REALIZE.... TO SHOW THEM WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE GOAL.

ok what will happen to me? I know everything will be stolen off of me, but what will happen because I wont work as an ant? torture? imprisonment? firing squad?

[Walter Powers]

No they must think like an indeendant human being.



The freedon ot thaught, the freedom of mind the freedom of spech of movement,....etc...
The hous is not theirs it belonges to The People.



have you ever plaied Monopoly?
Whel communism is like that exeptthere isno moneyor private property. While capitalism is like that exeptone plaier plaies with two dice theother with one one gets 50 when passing go the other 500...

1) If people are having Independant thoughts it would cause a communist society to collapse, because living under communism sucks.
2) You obviously have never played monopoly if you think the amount of money you get for passing GO varies. It's always $200.
3) Monopoly would be very boring if it was based on a communist society...you couldn't win!

[tovaris]

1) If people are having Independant thoughts it would cause a communist society to collapse, because living under communism sucks.
2) You obviously have never played monopoly if you think the amount of money you get for passing GO varies. It's always $200.
3) Monopoly would be very boring if it was based on a communist society...you couldn't win!

1 no it doesnt
2 i said the game was riged (menin unequal oportuneties)
3 actuly you couldnt lose

[Sugaree]

2 i said the game was riged (menin unequal oportuneties)
3 actuly you couldnt lose

There is no such thing as unequal opportunity in Monopoly. Everyone starts out with the same amount of cash in the beginning and whoever is smart enough to invest as much as possible and maintain a positive cash flow wins. It has nothing to do with it being rigged. If Monopoly was rigged, player one would start with $200 dollars while player two would start with $500 dollars. THAT is a rigged game.

Also, do you have no concept of what investments mean? By your logic, investment and owning a large business/property is an unequal opportunity. It's not. Most people get to where they are now through hard work. My parents wouldn't have been able to buy off this home had they not worked their way up. They used to live in a townhouse, now they're on a few thousand square foot property with a fence, deck, and a shitload of other amenities they couldn't previously afford.

Communism takes that away and gives it to people who don't deserve it because they haven't worked for it. No one has the right to take a hard worker's pay simply because it's not fair to the bum across the street that you happen to be working for a paycheck. Get your head out of your ass and realize that Communism is not the perfect solution, nor is it the only solution, to economic woes. And by all means, Capitalism isn't perfect either, but there are flaws in every economic system. Communism doesn't redistribute wealth, just as Capitalism doesn't always increase wealth. They are both good in theory, but in practice, can lead to harmful actions. Either get that through your head or just stop while you're still behind.

[tovaris]

There is no such thing as unequal opportunity in Monopoly. Everyone starts out with the same amount of cash in the beginning and whoever is smart enough to invest as much as possible and maintain a positive cash flow wins. It has nothing to do with it being rigged. If Monopoly was rigged, player one would start with $200 dollars while player two would start with $500 dollars. THAT is a rigged game.

Also, do you have no concept of what investments mean? By your logic, investment and owning a large business/property is an unequal opportunity. It's not. Most people get to where they are now through hard work. My parents wouldn't have been able to buy off this home had they not worked their way up. They used to live in a townhouse, now they're on a few thousand square foot property with a fence, deck, and a shitload of other amenities they couldn't previously afford.

Communism takes that away and gives it to people who don't deserve it because they haven't worked for it. No one has the right to take a hard worker's pay simply because it's not fair to the bum across the street that you happen to be working for a paycheck. Get your head out of your ass and realize that Communism is not the perfect solution, nor is it the only solution, to economic woes. And by all means, Capitalism isn't perfect either, but there are flaws in every economic system. Communism doesn't redistribute wealth, just as Capitalism doesn't always increase wealth. They are both good in theory, but in practice, can lead to harmful actions. Either get that through your head or just stop while you're still behind.

I used the riged monopoly game to explane the situation in the real world.

People who dont deserve it! Seriously? The working nation that has worked all their lives does not deserve to be the master Of their fate but the ruling one percent of the one percent of the rich do? Is this how you think? Horible, You would condem those that create all and are forced to the botom by an unfar sistem to ions of suffering? While the ruling few weald the fortune and vips...

[britishboy]

I used the riged monopoly game to explane the situation in the real world.

People who dont deserve it! Seriously? The working nation that has worked all their lives does not deserve to be the master Of their fate but the ruling one percent of the one percent of the rich do? Is this how you think? Horible, You would condem those that create all and are forced to the botom by an unfar sistem to ions of suffering? While the ruling few weald the fortune and vips...

but its the rich thwt invest and create stuff... you think the average working class man could run international businesses anyway?

[tovaris]

but its the rich thwt invest and create stuff... you think the average working class man could run international businesses anyway?

The workers create everething and are conpletly capable of runing themselves. We alredy seethis concept implicated in more and more conpanoes.

it will be changed when theres no doctors:rolleyes: and the surgeons who do boob jobs dont amputate/ sort out amputated legs;)

Why wouldent there be no doctors.

[Sugaree]

I used the riged monopoly game to explane the situation in the real world.

People who dont deserve it! Seriously? The working nation that has worked all their lives does not deserve to be the master Of their fate but the ruling one percent of the one percent of the rich do? Is this how you think? Horible, You would condem those that create all and are forced to the botom by an unfar sistem to ions of suffering? While the ruling few weald the fortune and vips...

lol nice job putting words into my mouth. You clearly don't understand what I said. I never said that the rich are the ones who deserve everything good out of life. I said that, if you work hard enough and feel that you can go further, then absolutely go do it. Communism doesn't do that. It keeps everyone under the idea that they are all "equal" and, therefor, saying that it inspires workers to be the masters of their own world is wrong.

Most people get to where they are through hard work, dedication, and patience. We can agree on that much, right? Then why don't you say that Capitalism, though it has its flaws, which promotes this idea that you can become what you WANT to become, is something to believe in? Sure, some people get to where they are based on inheritance, but they're such a small percentage that it doesn't matter what they think. The vast majority of people work for their bread and milk, they pay their bills, they send their kids to school, and are often lucky enough to have money left over after all that.

Communism does not allow you to think freely. It does not allow you to act freely. Communism forces you into this bullshit "equality" idea that is absolutely impossible to practice. Until some nation takes the theory of Communism - and that's all it is, a theory because, according to you, it has never been put into practice - and makes it exactly how it looks on paper, then you're never going to convince me that Communism is better than free market Capitalism.

[Walter Powers]

lol nice job putting words into my mouth. You clearly don't understand what I said. I never said that the rich are the ones who deserve everything good out of life. I said that, if you work hard enough and feel that you can go further, then absolutely go do it. Communism doesn't do that. It keeps everyone under the idea that they are all "equal" and, therefor, saying that it inspires workers to be the masters of their own world is wrong.

Most people get to where they are through hard work, dedication, and patience. We can agree on that much, right? Then why don't you say that Capitalism, though it has its flaws, which promotes this idea that you can become what you WANT to become, is something to believe in? Sure, some people get to where they are based on inheritance, but they're such a small percentage that it doesn't matter what they think. The vast majority of people work for their bread and milk, they pay their bills, they send their kids to school, and are often lucky enough to have money left over after all that.

Communism does not allow you to think freely. It does not allow you to act freely. Communism forces you into this bullshit "equality" idea that is absolutely impossible to practice. Until some nation takes the theory of Communism - and that's all it is, a theory because, according to you, it has never been put into practice - and makes it exactly how it looks on paper, then you're never going to convince me that Communism is better than free market Capitalism.

Very well said.

[tovaris]

lol nice job putting words into my mouth. You clearly don't understand what I said. I never said that the rich are the ones who deserve everything good out of life. I said that, if you work hard enough and feel that you can go further, then absolutely go do it. Communism doesn't do that. It keeps everyone under the idea that they are all "equal" and, therefor, saying that it inspires workers to be the masters of their own world is wrong.



No they dont work at all because most of them inherit their welth.
Afcors workers can be their own masters, many conpanies have been baught up by their workers (implicating the idea os selfmanagment even in this hostile enviorment)
Communism encourages everione to sucseed and to dotheir best...


Most people get to where they are through hard work, dedication, and patience. We can agree on that much, right? Then why don't you say that Capitalism, though it has its flaws, which promotes this idea that you can become what you WANT to become, is something to believe in? Sure, some people get to where they are based on inheritance, but they're such a small percentage that it doesn't matter what they think. The vast majority of people work for their bread and milk, they pay their bills, they send their kids to school, and are often lucky enough to have money left over after all that.


Most people at the top have been there all the time, they didnt get there threw hard work. People cant become anithing the wiah because often dont have hre resources that are in the hands of the few.
Those with money have power and push out the power of the comon man.


Communism does not allow you to think freely. It does not allow you to act freely. Communism forces you into this bullshit "equality" idea that is absolutely impossible to practice. Until some nation takes the theory of Communism - and that's all it is, a theory because, according to you, it has never been put into practice - and makes it exactly how it looks on paper, then you're never going to convince me that Communism is better than free market Capitalism.


Communism not only alowes but encourages free thaught for it is built upon it. I realy dont see why people couldnt act freely in communism. There is nothing imposible about equalety.

I have a strong suspition that the USA will suport some fashist militia in such a country to stop the human evolution.

Very well said.

Read above.

I'm not being patriotic. I'm being reasonable. Communism never works, and it betrays good honest work, and being rewarded for such work. The government always destroys it's own people, and it spreads like wildfire, causing it to spread it's reaches beyond it's borders.

Communism actuly builds on LABOR.
The people are the goverment.
The ultimate goal is a world republic.

however when that opinion involves essentially taking away all human rights, they don't desearve any respect.

You do realice human rights are what communism builds on and defends...

Maybe if you'd open your eyes, open up a history book, you'd learn that Communism has never worked, and will never worked, and has threatened the free world multiple times. It's because of you Reds that we almost had a nuclear holocaust. That is why I will never support Communism.

That is wht we are triing to convince you OPEN YOUR EIES, ooen a history book and you will see there is nothing bad about communism.
Im not even going to start explaning how wrong the second part of that post is...
Im not triing to convince you to suport communism(thow it would be nice) the first step is to realise that there is nothing bad about it the second step is realising how good it is and than the rest folows.


No. The whole point of Communism is to spread until every nation adopts it. And the only way the will happen is if you Commies start busting down doors and overthrowing governments in countries where you have no place being.

Afcors it spreads and the NATIONS adapt it.
There is no forcefull owertake of power needen unles democracie in being forcefilly represed. (frowing down democraticly elected goverments by force is more in the domane of us suported fashist gverilas in S/mezo America.)

Look at Stalin. His only goal was complete dominance of the World, and to achieve that, he invaded peaceful nations, and cracked down on his citizens to the point where they became nothing more than machines.

Salins goal wasnt the spread of communism but hio own power.


I wouldn't blame them. I mean, if I went to Law school for many years to become a lawyer, work my ass off, and then realize I'm being paid as much as the high school dropout working as a garbageman, I'd refuse to work. It's absolute thievery, and unfair. And you say that there "are no social classes", but look at who's managing where all that money goes. What's stopping them from taking an extra share of it to spend on themselves and their families? Nothing. That's why you saw the %1 of the Reds actually having a decent life, while the rest of the population was living in poverty.

In true communism any curency is avantuly eliminated.
Wt you are talking about there is oast abuse of the term communism.


Seriously, how in the hell is that even remotely fair? That's why Capitalism embodies freedom.


capitalism gives yu a well painted ilusion of freedom while communism gives you true freedom.


It's your choices that decide where you go in life.

why couldnt you do that

Unlike Communism, where you can't speak against your government, you can't get anywhere in life, and you are simply a machine, doing as your master instructs you to do.

Why couldnt you speak againced the curent goverment and parlament in communism? That is one of their roles to be made fun of... FREEDOM OF SPEACH (communism isnt Usa)
Afcors you acn advance in life a pesents son cam become a astronaut. Etc... Posibilities are limetles when there is no welth diferences to slow you down.
In communism everione is expected to think with their own head...

[Sir Suomi]

That is wht we are triing to convince you OPEN YOUR EIES, ooen a history book and you will see there is nothing bad about communism.
Im not even going to start explaning how wrong the second part of that post is...
Im not triing to convince you to suport communism(thow it would be nice) the first step is to realise that there is nothing bad about it the second step is realising how good it is and than the rest folows.


Afcors it spreads and the NATIONS adapt it.
There is no forcefull owertake of power needen unles democracie in being forcefilly represed. (frowing down democraticly elected goverments by force is more in the domane of us suported fashist gverilas in S/mezo America.)



Salins goal wasnt the spread of communism but hio own power.



In true communism any curency is avantuly eliminated.
Wt you are talking about there is oast abuse of the term communism.



capitalism gives yu a well painted ilusion of freedom while communism gives you true freedom.


why couldnt you do that



Why couldnt you speak againced the curent goverment and parlament in communism? That is one of their roles to be made fun of... FREEDOM OF SPEACH (communism isnt Usa)
Afcors you acn advance in life a pesents son cam become a astronaut. Etc... Posibilities are limetles when there is no welth diferences to slow you down.
In communism everione is expected to think with their own head...

Oh trust me, my eyes are wide open. And guess what? I'm already on a similar 2 step program, that maybe you should follow. First, realize how much Communism screws almost everyone involved. Second, realize how much of a mistake you are making, by supporting Communism, and maybe come to the smart side of the world.

Yet he used the principles of Communism, and that is, as I've already stated, overthrow every other nations, and force them to adopt Communism.

So now we're back to the Caveman days of bartering? Oh boy, doesn't that sound like an advancement in evolution.

No. With Capitalism, I have the right to work hard, and to advance in society, while with Communism, that right is taken away. How the hell is that freedom?

Because with Communism, the government is telling me what I'm going to do, and how I'm going to do it. I'm sure as hell not going to let that happen to me.

Bullshit. Look at Russia. I didn't see too many people climbing the ladders there, with the exception of those with personal ties to those in power.

So as you can see, Communism is absolute horseshit. I'd hope you come to realize this, and stop this Commie crap. But hey, if you wanna keep living the lie, going ahead.

[Stronk Serb]

Oh trust me, my eyes are wide open. And guess what? I'm already on a similar 2 step program, that maybe you should follow. First, realize how much Communism screws almost everyone involved. Second, realize how much of a mistake you are making, by supporting Communism, and maybe come to the smart side of the world.

Yet he used the principles of Communism, and that is, as I've already stated, overthrow every other nations, and force them to adopt Communism.

So now we're back to the Caveman days of bartering? Oh boy, doesn't that sound like an advancement in evolution.

No. With Capitalism, I have the right to work hard, and to advance in society, while with Communism, that right is taken away. How the hell is that freedom?

Because with Communism, the government is telling me what I'm going to do, and how I'm going to do it. I'm sure as hell not going to let that happen to me.

Bullshit. Look at Russia. I didn't see too many people climbing the ladders there, with the exception of those with personal ties to those in power.

So as you can see, Communism is absolute horseshit. I'd hope you come to realize this, and stop this Commie crap. But hey, if you wanna keep living the lie, going ahead.

It's funny that you have the wrong term for that kind of society. It is Stalinist/Kim-Jongist, not Communist. In true communism you can still advance. Stop looking at the Soviet Union as a prime example of Communism, it failed even in the school of socialism. If you still don't know what communism is about, I will gladly send you thsources so you can learn.

lol nice job putting words into my mouth. You clearly don't understand what I said. I never said that the rich are the ones who deserve everything good out of life. I said that, if you work hard enough and feel that you can go further, then absolutely go do it. Communism doesn't do that. It keeps everyone under the idea that they are all "equal" and, therefor, saying that it inspires workers to be the masters of their own world is wrong.

Most people get to where they are through hard work, dedication, and patience. We can agree on that much, right? Then why don't you say that Capitalism, though it has its flaws, which promotes this idea that you can become what you WANT to become, is something to believe in? Sure, some people get to where they are based on inheritance, but they're such a small percentage that it doesn't matter what they think. The vast majority of people work for their bread and milk, they pay their bills, they send their kids to school, and are often lucky enough to have money left over after all that.

Communism does not allow you to think freely. It does not allow you to act freely. Communism forces you into this bullshit "equality" idea that is absolutely impossible to practice. Until some nation takes the theory of Communism - and that's all it is, a theory because, according to you, it has never been put into practice - and makes it exactly how it looks on paper, then you're never going to convince me that Communism is better than free market Capitalism.

Communism allows you to think freely. Stop mistaking it for Stalinism or Kim-Jongism, they failed in the school of socialism, they more fascist, not communist


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[tovaris]

Oh trust me, my eyes are wide open.


Think are they realy?


Oh trust me, my eyes are wide open. And guess what? I'm already on a similar 2 step program, that maybe you should follow. First, realize how much Communism screws almost everyone involved. Second, realize how much of a mistake you are making, by supporting Communism, and maybe come to the smart side of the world.


There is no skrewing people up involveb...¿


Yet he used the principles of Communism, and that is, as I've already stated, overthrow every other nations, and force them to adopt Communism.

Stali abused the vord communism, he never used the principle of it.
The USSR never had communism, and the only thing they forced upon their satalite countris was total Soviet control.


So now we're back to the Caveman days of bartering? Oh boy, doesn't that sound like an advancement in evolution.

There will be no need for curency or trade because everione will be provided for.



No. With Capitalism, I have the right to work hard, and to advance in society, while with Communism, that right is taken away. How the hell is that freedom?


Why would communism take any of those rights avay, when it builds in them? Why would it take away freedom, when one of the basic arguments of commu ism is freedom?



Because with Communism, the government is telling me what I'm going to do, and how I'm going to do it. I'm sure as hell not going to let that happen to me.


No. You decide what you want to do. Nd the onky one telling anyone what to do are the people teeling that to the goverment.



Bullshit. Look at Russia. I didn't see too many people climbing the ladders there, with the exception of those with personal ties to those in power.


Who is talking about the Russian Federation, or the USSR for tgat mather?

[CommunistMetalhead]

I am a communist. I believe that for communism to be implemented there needs to be workers council control over the means of production and total social and political freedom Basically close to anarchy.

[Harry Smith]

I am a communist. I believe that for communism to be implemented there needs to be workers council control over the means of production and total social and political freedom Basically close to anarchy.

Workers council, you seem to not understand the basics of western economic advancement, we've moved away from the industrial age and we now mainly offer a service based economy with jobs coming from officers rather than factories.

Political freedom wouldn't work because you'd have a revolution within days.

[CommunistMetalhead]

Workers council, you seem to not understand the basics of western economic advancement, we've moved away from the industrial age and we now mainly offer a service based economy with jobs coming from officers rather than factories.

Political freedom wouldn't work because you'd have a revolution within days.

Workers council work the same in offices as they do in factories. There are still tons of factories in the world. Americans are just alienated from were most goods come from.

[Harry Smith]

Workers council work the same in offices as they do in factories. There are still tons of factories in the world. Americans are just alienated from were most goods come from.

Workers councils don't do any good, they only care about the lower classes and in doing that it would drive away business from large companies who would simply move abroad due to the stupid demands from workers councils.

Commuism was set up to protect low level workers in countries like Russia and Cuba where they weren't any rights, in the UK workers have brilliant protection from both the state and from their employees.

[CommunistMetalhead]

Workers councils don't do any good, they only care about the lower classes and in doing that it would drive away business from large companies who would simply move abroad due to the stupid demands from workers councils.

Commuism was set up to protect low level workers in countries like Russia and Cuba where they weren't any rights, in the UK workers have brilliant protection from both the state and from their employees.

You clearly know nothing about communism then. There aren't "lower classes" there is the proletariat, the petty bourgeoisie, and the bourgeoisie.

Workers councils are just a form of workers self management. It is a system usable for any workplace.

http://libcom.org/thought/council-communism-an-introduction


-merged multiple posts. -Emerald Dream

[Harry Smith]

You clearly know nothing about communism then. There aren't "lower classes" there is the proletariat, the petty bourgeoisie, and the bourgeoisie.

This proves my case more than anything, communism is built for the 19th Century. I'm sorry that I use the British class system rather than something out of a Marxist's journal from the 19th Century

[pieman10]

You have to remember that there is a massive difference between communism in theory and communism in practice.

[CommunistMetalhead]

You have to remember that there is a massive difference between communism in theory and communism in practice.

There is no communism in practice yet. Only state capitalism.

[pieman10]

There is no communism in practice yet. Only state capitalism.

Thats because communism in practice is IMPOSSIBLE.

To distribute all the wealth among the people, someone needs to have the wealth and power to do so.
Therefore that person has more power and the perfect communism idea has already died.

This is before dictatorships even factor into the equation!

[CommunistMetalhead]

Thats because communism in practice is IMPOSSIBLE.

To distribute all the wealth among the people, someone needs to have the wealth and power to do so.
Therefore that person has more power and the perfect communism idea has already died.

This is before dictatorships even factor into the equation!

No you simply manage the means of production democratically and everything is decentralized.

[pieman10]

No you simply manage the means of production democratically and everything is decentralized.

So how is law and order kept?
How are criminals tried?
How are the national borders protected?
How is healthcare delivered?
How are funds distributed locally?

How is this all achived while making sure everyone is equal and no one has more power than anyone else?

[CommunistMetalhead]

So how is law and order kept?
How are criminals tried?
How are the national borders protected?
How is healthcare delivered?
How are funds distributed locally?

How is this all achived while making sure everyone is equal and no one has more power than anyone else?
There is obviously going to be people with more power than other people. Delegates who are elected would be instantly recallable to make sure they uphold the things the group they are from agrees on. This way there would be nothing imposed from the top down. Criminals would be tried in courts of law as usual but the system of justice would focus on rehabilitation and there would be no restrictions on drugs, sex, etc. National borders would be severely limited as this would have to be a global system. Hospitals and other health care would be state run and free for everyone.

[pieman10]

There is obviously going to be people with more power than other people. Delegates who are elected would be instantly recallable to make sure they uphold the things the group they are from agrees on. This way there would be nothing imposed from the top down. Criminals would be tried in courts of law as usual but the system of justice would focus on rehabilitation and there would be no restrictions on drugs, sex, etc. National borders would be severely limited as this would have to be a global system. Hospitals and other health care would be state run and free for everyone.

But by electing local delegates your already straying from the path of communism.
It would take a delegate to gather a few supporters and then he could reamain in power and do what he wants, its a slippery slope from there to a dictatorship.

How exactly would the armed forces work?