Hell

[Maverick]

What I don't understand or agree with is that, who could possibly be that bad in the world to deserve eternal suffering? Especially over the simple reason of not believing?

[Serenity]

All righty! Short version: according to my branch of Christianity, there are two afterlife options, heaven and hell. To be rewarded with eternal life in heaven, one must believe in God, serve God, and publicly admit that as a human you do and are going to disobey God's commands and that you need His forgiveness and guidance. If you do all that, you go to heaven. If not, hell. Because God gave us the gift of life, we owe literally everything to Him. If you're not willing to dedicate your life to Him then you don't deserve His reward and thus are sent to hell.

[Maverick]

lol I'd answer but that's a whole other debate, isn't it? :P
I thought that after I posted it. Now its another debate. :)

[Underground_Network]

What I don't understand or agree with is that, who could possibly be that bad in the world to deserve eternal suffering? Especially over the simple reason of not believing?

I agree, 'tis why I don't believe in hell... We all just die, we perish into nonexistence, except for the ashes left behind... Anyways, if hell exists, wouldn't we all go to hell? We all sin, nobody's perfect, so yeah, unless there's some random selection process, I don't see how you can decide who deserves to go to hell.. Now there are people I'd like to "rot in hell", but not literally, I mean suffering after death? Isn't death bad enough??

[Serenity]

One of my biggest issues with non-believers is that people don't want it to be true, so they refuse to believe it to be true. There are those who just can't accept that life is in fact not a free ride and the idea that there is a punishment for acting like it is just appalls them so of course it can't really be the way things are.

And as far as shouldn't we all go to hell, no. If you admit that you are a sinner and ask God's forgiveness and strive to make everything you do good and wholesome and dedicated to God then you go to heaven. There's no random selection process.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

What I don't understand or agree with is that, who could possibly be that bad in the world to deserve eternal suffering? Especially over the simple reason of not believing?

1) Apparently, anyone who does not believe in the lord jesus christ will burn in eternal hellfire. From the youngest babies to the oldest women. They are all scarred with sin, and even though god loves us all, regardless of the evils we have committed, we must burn eternally.

2) Not believing in Jesus is enough reason to burn! Once again, in his eyes, all of humanity has sinned! From the second a baby is conceived, it is stricken with sin, and if it is not purified, it shall burn in hell.

That is why i think that If a Christian god does exist, he is a sick individual! Any person/being who thinks that a baby is scarred with sin and must burn if it isnt purified is certainly sick and evil.

[Serenity]

1) Apparently, anyone who does not believe in the lord jesus christ will burn in eternal hellfire. From the youngest babies to the oldest women. They are all scarred with sin, and even though god loves us all, regardless of the evils we have committed, we must burn eternally.

2) Not believing in Jesus is enough reason to burn! Once again, in his eyes, all of humanity has sinned! From the second a baby is conceived, it is stricken with sin, and if it is not purified, it shall burn in hell.

That is why i think that If a Christian god does exist, he is a sick individual! Any person/being who thinks that a baby is scarred with sin and must burn if it isnt purified is certainly sick and evil.

1) Babies are not sent to hell. When you're not yet old enough to understand God and the responsibilities of life, you're still innocent. Old women, yes, if they haven't led a holy life are sent to hell. If they're old they've just had that much more time to live however they choose. God loves us all but he doesn't reward those who are undeserving.

2) Again, babies are innocent. And just like you said, if you're not purified you go to hell. Which is why you have to ask God's forgiveness and His guidance to help you lead a life which he would approve of.

3) Nowhere in the Bible does it say ANYTHING about babies being sent to hell. Nowhere.

[Underground_Network]

I still don't get what could be worse than death? And if you die before you have the chance to sin, aren't you guaranteed to go to heaven? If we choose to believe in hell, we just drag ourselves downward, as we become self-conscious about every move, we don't want to sin, we don't want to make a mistake that could send us to a place where we will rot and burn.. So if you don't believe in hell, you can live life without being so focused on avoiding negative things, and just live life to its fullest, which is what you should really do, live out your life to its fullest potential, do all that you can do in the time that you're alive, rather than worry whats going to happen when you die... Its better to focus on the present, than to focus on the future. You should just take life as it comes.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

(Snapskies) No, it says that all of humainty is immediatly is debt to god, because of adam and eve. So therefore, babies are scarred with sin, and if they dont repent and find Jesus, will go to hell.

[Underground_Network]

^So basically, 100% of the human population goes to hell?

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

According to the bible, if you dont believe in jesus, and you havent repented, yes

[Serenity]

I still don't get what could be worse than death?

What's so bad about death? Death is simply the lack of life. Death in and of itself is nothing at all to worry about because it can't DO anything to you. LIFE and AFTERLIFE is what you should worry about because that's when you personally are at risk to suffering.

Snapskies) No, it says that all of humainty is immediatly is debt to god, because of adam and eve. So therefore, babies are scarred with sin, and if they dont repent and find Jesus, will go to hell.

Yes, all of humanity is in debt to God for the gift of life and his sacrifice of Jesus, his only son, on our behalf. NO a baby will NOT be sent to hell because a baby doesn't know it has to repent. Once you become liable for your own thoughts and actions, THEN you are up for judgement.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Where is that specified Snapskies? (also, apparently, not all babies would go to hell. Only unbaptised babies would go to hell)

[Underground_Network]

Since we have yet to prove that there is an afterlife, why should we even bother worrying about sinning? And why do so many religious figures sin behind OUR backs? I personally don't care if I go to heaven or hell, and if I don't believe in heaven or hell, is it even fair for me to be sent somewhere that I don't believe in?

[Serenity]

Rtas, you'll have to give me some time to look it up, it's a large Bible >_<

Underground, I'm willing to bet that if you found yourself in never ceasing agony you'd care a bit. And yes, it's fair for you to be sent to hell because this is God's world and we are God's creations and thus we must abide by God's rules. That's like saying it's unfair to recieve a detention just because you don't think your principal is real. Rules are still rules. Of course the issue here is that you can't see God and that's where non believers find most of their ammunition.

And as far as religious figures sinning behind our backs, well that's their fate that they're messing with, isn't it? It has nothing whatsoever to do with the rest of ours.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Yay! Isn't the age of innocence like 12 years old? I forget exactly. But it's like you said; how could a baby be sent to hell if it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to know about God, repenting, etc. It's like threatening to kill a blind man if he doesn't read a piece of paper you hand him!

[Underground_Network]

So what happens if a baby dies? Where does it go? 0.o
Is it guaranteed heaven??

[ThatCanadianGuy]

Yes little babies are guarantied heaven, since they of course can't understand God and repentance (how would that be possible?).

[Maverick]

What about people in third world countries and even here who never learn of Christianity? Why should they go to hell because of their ignorance of the religion?

[Underground_Network]

^^ Great point... And if I end up in hell, I'll use mind control, and just repeat, "YOU DON'T EXIST, YOU DON'T EXIST!", and then I'll fade into the abyss... I'm not going to heaven or hell, although, when I die, I'll probably end up going "down", as they'll bury me in a casket, and that is where I will stay, as the only thing inside of me is my organs, muscle, tissue, etc., there's no "soul", and there's no "inner body" or any of that trash, so yeah, I don't see how I'd end up in heaven or hell... Where is heaven anyway? Is it in some other galaxy, 'cuz, hello, we've been up in space, and there ain't no heaven in the Earth's atmosphere... And where the hell is hell? Trust me when I see its not beneath the surface... If you dig deep enough, you won't find hell, you'll find China, and in my opinion, China is not hell... Although to some, it could be.

[Serenity]

In response to Ant, I honestly don't know. Lol 16ish years of church and Sunday school is all I've got :P

In response to Underground, you're thinking too Earthly. Other galaxies are still part of this world, whereas heaven is not. You cannot tell where heaven is, because it's nowhere we can find. As it is with hell. You're taking a very narrow-minded viewpoint on it, which is of course due to your disbelief in God. Heaven isn't some magic land in the clouds, and hell isn't some land of lava deep beneath the surface of the Earth. If you are sent to hell, you can't teleport yourself out into some abyss, you're just stuck. And just like you can't physically find heaven or hell, nor can you physically find a soul or 'inner body.' The biggest issue with nonbelievers is their firm and absolute refusal to accept the idea that there are things that exist beyond our control or comprehension that are entirely apart from this physical world- they refuse to accept the idea that just because we cannot prove its existence doesn't necessarily disprove its existence.

[dem.re.cmd.exe]

Just so you know, I read the first page and thought the other two were full of people agreeing on this topic, .....boring.

I agree, 'tis why I don't believe in hell... We all just die, we perish into nonexistence, except for the ashes left behind... Anyways, if hell exists, wouldn't we all go to hell?

I didn't feel like stating my opinion, so I quoted it! :D






One of my biggest issues with non-believers is that people don't want it to be true, so they refuse to believe it to be true. There are those who just can't accept that life is in fact not a free ride and the idea that there is a punishment for acting like it is just appalls them so of course it can't really be the way things are.

So am I to believe that God, the all forgiving, almighty God, is going to through me into a big pit of firey death for all eternity?? The same God that people pray for to save people from illnesses, and to win sport activities?

I doubt it. ( *opinion*)


There's no random selection process.

lol Do I smell illegal gambling?



So in summary, no, I don't think there is a Hell, but in that case... I don't really believe in Heaven at the moment either. (*almost (100% of) everythihng I say that doesn't have the word "fact" somewhere near it is MY opinion, not to be confused with anyone else's...., and is pretty much always some sort of joke)

[Maverick]

If you don't believe in Hell that is fine. But the existence of hell isn't really what's being debated.

[dem.re.cmd.exe]

Well, that is one thing that I stated there, but I really made my point pretty badly. Basically I just think that in most religions God/God's and/or Godess/Godesses are kind and forgiving. Could a kind anf forgiving person sentance you to an eternity in Hell or however long it is. I really don't care wether or not it exists right now, but saying it does, would the supposedly kind creator really send us to Hell.


lol I just read the second page, it's the best read ever!

[ThatCanadianGuy]

We're all just gonna have to find out for ourselves one day, won't we? Then I'll be glad that I got my fire insurance (J.C.!!! :D).

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Wouldnt hell perhaps be a little more exciting then heaven? Dont you think an eternity of happiness would get boring after awhile?:P

[dem.re.cmd.exe]

Well, it defiinitely depends... because Muslims get 28 virgins, isn't it? Things like that, and unlimited Pepsi... I want to commint suicide just to get rid of the anticipation (not that I should joke about that...)

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Well, you have to think about the 28 virgins. Those would all be proper, muslim virgins, right>? Which would mean that they would all have honor, and therefore, cousins and fathers and uncles to protect that honor by killing anyone who tries to be affectionate with her... Doesnt sound so great now, does it?:P

[dem.re.cmd.exe]

True, but Catholics! lol I bet God could understand, we are made in "His" image...

[Serenity]

So am I to believe that God, the all forgiving, almighty God, is going to through me into a big pit of firey death for all eternity?? The same God that people pray for to save people from illnesses, and to win sport activities?

I doubt it. ( *opinion*)

Yes. God is all-forgiving, but only if you ask for it and deserve it. If you live a life full of sin and don't care, yes you're going to hell. If you live a life of sin and pull a fox-hole please-don't-kill-me-and-I-promise-to-do-good-next-time and then continue your life of sin without care, yes you'll be sent to hell. Just because God loves us and is willing to forgive us anything, doesn't mean he's just gonna let everyone into heaven for the sake of it.

We're all just gonna have to find out for ourselves one day, won't we? Then I'll be glad that I got my fire insurance (J.C.!!! :biggrin2:).

Lol indeed.

Wouldnt hell perhaps be a little more exciting then heaven? Dont you think an eternity of happiness would get boring after awhile?:tongue:

Oh yes, I'm sure I'd rather spend eternity burning mercilessly and without cease or pity rather than an eternity of golden palaces and peace. Mhmm that's the option I'd pick. As for boring, I'm not sure we'd even be capable of feeling boredom...since we would have eternal life time wouldn't mean anything so you wouldn't get bored...erm...it sounds good in my head lol

Aaaaand I know pretty much nothing about Islam lol so yeah.

[dem.re.cmd.exe]

?
Oh yes, I'm sure I'd rather spend eternity burning mercilessly and without cease or pity rather than an eternity of golden palaces and peace. Mhmm that's the option I'd pick. As for boring, I'm not sure we'd even be capable of feeling boredom...since we would have eternal life time wouldn't mean anything so you wouldn't get bored...erm...it sounds good in my head lol


lol Ya. I agree! :D

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

"Oh yes, I'm sure I'd rather spend eternity burning mercilessly and without cease or pity rather than an eternity of golden palaces and peace. Mhmm that's the option I'd pick. As for boring, I'm not sure we'd even be capable of feeling boredom...since we would have eternal life time wouldn't mean anything so you wouldn't get bored...erm...it sounds good in my head lol"

If you didnt notice, I was joking:P

[dem.re.cmd.exe]

Oh, .... lol. Funny, you ruined it now! Thanks. Thanks a lot.

[Serenity]

"Oh yes, I'm sure I'd rather spend eternity burning mercilessly and without cease or pity rather than an eternity of golden palaces and peace. Mhmm that's the option I'd pick. As for boring, I'm not sure we'd even be capable of feeling boredom...since we would have eternal life time wouldn't mean anything so you wouldn't get bored...erm...it sounds good in my head lol"

If you didnt notice, I was joking:P

lol and again I have demonstrated how crippled my speech is by the complete inability to convey sarcasm online :P

[Underground_Network]

It still seems to me that based on what I've heard, if heaven and hell are real, then heaven has less than 1% of all humans who have died, while hell has 99% of all humans who have died, so, since hell is full of so many humans, in the future, it will reach its maximum capacity, and then you can sin all your life and still go to heaven. And if God is real, why doesn't he simply prove to us that he's real? Give us a real sign? If he can show us that he's real, I'll believe in heaven and hell. But even if I end up believing in heaven and hell, I'll still believe that more than 99% of the human population is headed for hell... And what happens to animals after they die? Is there a doggy heaven and a doggy hell?

[Serenity]

It still seems to me that based on what I've heard, if heaven and hell are real, then heaven has less than 1% of all humans who have died, while hell has 99% of all humans who have died, so, since hell is full of so many humans, in the future, it will reach its maximum capacity, and then you can sin all your life and still go to heaven.

You're being too narrow-minded again. Heaven and hell aren't like Earth and don't have Earth's limitations. There's no such thing as maximum capacity in hell. Just like there's no end to eternity. And I suppose your statistic is supposed to relate the exact number of devout, practicing Christians vs everyone else? I'm willing to be it's a bit less dramatic that 1 vs 99.

And if God is real, why doesn't he simply prove to us that he's real? Give us a real sign? If he can show us that he's real, I'll believe in heaven and hell. But even if I end up believing in heaven and hell, I'll still believe that more than 99% of the human population is headed for hell...

Well that's where faith comes in. Any jackass can follow the rules of a leader that stands before you demanding it. It takes real worth of character to simply believe. And God has given REAL signs- ever heard of the stories in the Bible? Miracles? And yes, a large portion of the population is definitely headed for hell because of their stubborn disbelief in/disregard for God and His commandments. No one ever said otherwise- yes, there are people who are going to go to hell. Nothing will change that except the people themselves.

And what happens to animals after they die? Is there a doggy heaven and a doggy hell?

Well now you're just being ridiculous. Animals don't have souls.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

So since animals dont have souls, they dont feel either? I can torture a dog and it wont cry?

[Bobby]

Well now you're just being ridiculous. Animals don't have souls.

I'm not sure I can agree with this. We are the same as dogs in a spiritual way, just not scientifically. Animals have emotions, which means they have a soul.

[Maverick]

Animals don't think and have an imagination though.

[Serenity]

Animals don't think and have an imagination though.

QFT. And it's just insulting my intelligence to say that I would think it's alright to torture an animal, thanks.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

But how does taht mean they dont have souls? Just bcause they are less intelligent!?!

[Bobby]

Animals don't think and have an imagination though.

Is that proven though?

[Maverick]

Has nothing to do with intelligence. Just a biological characteristic of the brain.
Is that proven though?
A human mind and animal mind are not the same. Dogs for example do not think. They are trained to react and respond. Their minds are much simpler than a human.

[Serenity]

Has nothing to do with intelligence. Just a biological characteristic of the brain.

QFT again...:rolleyes:

[Bobby]

Okay, now back onto the main topic :P Hell!

[R_master]

are we talking about hell as in the fiery pit of torture for everyone, or the circles of hell ala Dante's Inferno?

either way i just can't visualize God wanting to torture his children in those fashions. it would make more sense for him to keep us stuck on this hell we call earth :P

it also doesn't make sense to me that we could be tortured and feel pain if our physical body is no longer with us. the soul is immortal so i would assume even if it could be harmed we would eventually start to enjoy the torture in a masochistic way. I mean common being "tortured" for eternity?? it just isn't plausible.

and if humans have souls than other animals most definitely do too, regardless of the bible(s). they are just as unique as you or I, as anyone who's ever cared for an animal would know.

[Underground_Network]

First of all, using the Bible as proof that God exists is not proving anything to me... And what I meant by God giving us a sign, was him giving us a sign in modern times, since we seem to believe he gave signs in the past, I guess, since he hasn't given any signs recently, he must've died or fallen into an eternal slumber... And saying animals don't have souls is ridiculous... My reasoning: humans are animals. Thus, if animals do not have souls, than neither do humans, and if you believe that evolution is at least partially correct, you would be either implying that all of a sudden humans gained souls, or that our great ancestors, which quite possibly could've been primeates, had souls as well. :/ And I did not imply that 99% of people are not christian/catholic, I was implying that 99% of people would go to hell for various reasons, including not believing, as almost everyone sins, and not everyone asks for forgiveness... Btw, my theory is that everyone goes to hell, unless they follow every religion, because if you don't follow Islam, I guess you're going to hell, then if you don't follow Christianity, your going to hell, etc. etc.. Now there are several exceptions, including Judaism, as Jews don't believe in hell, but still, if you go to hell for not being Christian, then you should also go to hell for not following other religions that believe in hell as well.

[dem.re.cmd.exe]

either way i just can't visualize God wanting to torture his children that in those fashions. it would make more sense for him to keep us stuck on this hell we call earth :P


I'm 100% behind that logic. That's basically what I said. :D



First of all, using the Bible as proof that God exists is not proving anything to me...

No, it doesn't prove a thing. "Aesop's Fables are the new bible" okay, Aesop must've been God's disciple back in his day lol.

[Brazdar]

" There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so" by W. Shakespear, i belive that hell is an invention of human kind, and that most of the religions are created by those who want power and they want to get it fast, so they use religions, but there's a good thing in this because some people are hard to control in a society so religions may keep some of them to do things that could harm phisicaly, or psihicaly the other people, but a second thought we all have the freedom to think by ourselves and decide what's good or bad without the help of any religions. Another thing it's that everyone have moments when they need help and don't know who to ask for it, and so they prefer to think that there is a greater power that could give the help needed, things like " God(or whoever it/he/she is) please help me", or many others prays like that one, i don't belive this is a bad thing because it's like when you give yourself suport and power to face the problems you have.