Cummins vs. Powerstroke vs. Duramax

[The Redlight Bandit]

Just wanted to see if I could get some opinions on which diesel engine some of you guys like out of the three... Ford=Powerstroke Dodge=Cummins Chevy=Duramax... Who perfers what?

[CaliforniaMatt]

I like Chevy diesel trucks because they come with an Allison transmission. I've had good experiences with all three, but I prefer Duramax and Power Stroke over Cummins for some reason.

[PinkFloyd]

http://liftedchevy.com/files/2012/01/Chevrolet-6.6-Allison-Duramax.jpg

[CaliforniaMatt]

That's a douchebag lift. My lift is much more classy :$
When my Vortec goes out, I'm dropping in a Duramax, lifting a bit higher, putting an Allison in, and making custom nerf bars and skid plates.

[PinkFloyd]

That's a douchebag lift. My lift is much more classy :$
When my Vortec goes out, I'm dropping in a Duramax, lifting a bit higher, putting an Allison in, and making custom nerf bars and skid plates.

yeah, I know, I know... I would never do that. It was the frst or second pic on g images...

[The Redlight Bandit]

image (http://liftedchevy.com/files/2012/01/Chevrolet-6.6-Allison-Duramax.jpg)

Looks kind of stupid like that, too much lift for those size tires seems like

[The Redlight Bandit]

That's a douchebag lift. My lift is much more classy :$
When my Vortec goes out, I'm dropping in a Duramax, lifting a bit higher, putting an Allison in, and making custom nerf bars and skid plates.

What year/model is your truck that has the Vortec in it?

[CaliforniaMatt]

I'm butthurt because I saw a truck just like that today at 7 eleven. 5 douchebags got out, threw money at the cashier (poor guy) and walked out. I boxed them, for a lil vengeance.

[The Redlight Bandit]

I'm butthurt because I saw a truck just like that today at 7 eleven. 5 douchebags got out, threw money at the cashier (poor guy) and walked out. I boxed them, for a lil vengeance.

Typical :P

[Wakesetter03]

We had an '08 Silverado. The Duramax was and awesome motor and the Allison it was mated too was great. However when we started to modify the motor for more power (winding banks up, larger exhaust) it was a world of trouble. The Allison transmission had too many fail safes that couldn't be fixed with, say, a flashed ECU (were told by numerous people it would brick the ECU). The problem was, while towing if you had to overtake going up hill, and were flat to the floor as it shifted down, the car went into limp home mode to (apparently) prevent the Allison being ripped apart by the torque. This was told to us by the Allison Transmission specialist it was taken to before he said in the same sentence that the transmission was good for 1500nm of torque. It made no sense to us.

Here in Australia US trucks are imports so we couldn't send it back to Chevy. It went to Allison specialists and our diesel tuners. Still no solution.

A few months back, dad replaced it with a Ram. It took him a while to do this because he REALLY doesn't like Cummin's motors. Whilst general reliability with the Dodge is better (we have similar work done to it to get more power and it doesn't go into limp home mode whenever you use the power) but it still has issues. The motor is renowned for EGR Carbon build up, we have to spray upper engine cleaner through it once every 10,000km (6,000 miles). That, and it doesn't have the same power as the Duramax.

That being said though, for what we use the truck for, the Dodge is better than the Chevy.

Haven't had anything to do with Powerstroke, but I can legitimately say that from a reliability point of view, both Cummins and Duramax/Allison need to pick up their quality. Maybe it's due to the fact that over in the US they are cheap, yet here they are ridiculously priced, but I expected more reliability from a work vehicle.

[CaliforniaMatt]

Why do you chip it? BTW, chipping is illegal in California, any sort of tampering with the ECU is illegal.

[Wakesetter03]

We wanted more power. We tow a fifth wheeler and a ski boat and it's hilly near where we live, dad wanted to be able to sit on 100 going up anything. Standard it was alright but once we chipped it with an exhaust and cleared up the airflow, it was another car plus it improved the fuel economy.

Over here most engine based modification is legal but we can't do nearly the same things with suspension and body mods like you guys :(

[CaliforniaMatt]

I take it the new Ram is a duallie? Why didn't you guys just get a 3500 truck or somethin?

[Wakesetter03]

Nope, 2500 Single. Dually's aren't registerable here. Plus the Ram barely fits in the garage (don't get me started on carparks) so a 3500 would be ridiculous here. Plus with the ridiculous cost of US built trucks here (about 3 times what they are worth in America) the 3500's would probably crack $200k

[CaliforniaMatt]

Really? That fuckin sucks!
Duallys are awesome for towing.
Did your dad need the bed? Or just towing capacity? He could get a used Excursion later on, they're pretty cheap.

[Wakesetter03]

It is ridiculous yeah :/ Paying over $100k for something thats like $50k in the US is a bit of a joke IMO.

He needs the bed and towing capacity. It's a work car, plus the Fifth Wheeler needs a pick up for the gooseneck hitch.

Excursions aren't available here either, but I'd say dad wouldn't buy a Ford though anyway.

[CaliforniaMatt]

I don't see why people care about the type of truck so much. Asian trucks are always the most reliable, and American trucks are always the most powerful. They all have trade offs, but do the same thing at the end of the day- get things done. Ford, Chevy, and Ram are pretty similar reliability-wise, and they excel at different things. None are better than the other, though.

Excursions are the most badass SUVs ever, massive towing capacity and it's HUGE!
Only SUV in it's category that offers a real, truck diesel.

[Wakesetter03]

Different people prefer different brands due to interior quality, reliability and personal preference.

Yeah they are a badass truck but I could see my dad in a lot of other things before a Ford SUV haha.

[CaliforniaMatt]

Do you guys have Consumer Reports over there?
Interior fit and finish is very similar between the brands, and so is reliability. Looks are one of the biggest differences. H

ave you actually ever seen an Excursion up close? Or driven one? One word: manSUV.

[The Redlight Bandit]

Why do you chip it? BTW, chipping is illegal in California, any sort of tampering with the ECU is illegal.

That's pretty much the same situation here in New York... I wanted to mess around with the DPF a little bit on the 550 and my father wouldn't let me becaue he said the state would have a field day with it if I was ever to get stopped and checked. Chances are that he's 100% correct anyway because the environmental cops around here are a bunch of assholes about anything & everything.

[sparkles]

Ford stopped making the excursion like 4 or 5 years ago, maybe more. Chevy used to have a diesel option in the older suburbans, I don't think they sold well so they axed it.

I prefer the Chevy Diesel over the Ford or Dodge. The issues with the 6.0 powerstrokes is enough to make me never want one. The cummins is an amazing engine, but it has nowhere near the towing capability of the ford or chevy.

[The Redlight Bandit]

Ford stopped making the excursion like 4 or 5 years ago, maybe more. Chevy used to have a diesel option in the older suburbans, I don't think they sold well so they axed it.

I prefer the Chevy Diesel over the Ford or Dodge. The issues with the 6.0 powerstrokes is enough to make me never want one. The cummins is an amazing engine, but it has nowhere near the towing capability of the ford or chevy.

Think the Excursion was taken out of production in 2007, it wasn't selling as well as it had when first introduced. The diesel Surbans were popular in the late 80's but essentially fell off the face of the earth once Chevy introduced the mainstream Tahoe into their S.U.V. market.

I have the 6.0 Powerstroke and there's not as many problems as people think. The 6.4 was the real problem, which is why it was only available in 2008 model year trucks. The 6.4 was one of Ford's biggest mistakes since the whole exploding tire situation back in the 90's. The 6.0's been in my family since it was bought in June of 2006 and it's been nothing but good, knock on wood. The Cummins is probably the most proven engine manufacturer, the commercial/industrial market has utilized these engines for years in applications such as Construction Equipment, Fire Apparatus, etc. In the pickup market, you're absolutely right when you say that it does lag when being used for towing.

[Abyssal Echo]

my cousins 91 Dodge has over 500K on it and still running fine. My moms 94 Dodge has 200K on it she hasn't had to do anything to the engine other than maintenance. sooo yeah Cummins all the way :D

[The Redlight Bandit]

my cousins 91 Dodge has over 500K on it and still running fine. My moms 94 Dodge has 200K on it she hasn't had to do anything to the engine other than maintenance. sooo yeah Cummins all the way :D

Yup, I had an '02 Ram 2500 with a 24Valve Cummins at 323,000 miles and it was still going strong when it was sold. Loved that truck, still miss it too.

[Wakesetter03]

Do you guys have Consumer Reports over there?
Interior fit and finish is very similar between the brands, and so is reliability. Looks are one of the biggest differences. H

ave you actually ever seen an Excursion up close? Or driven one? One word: manSUV.

Yeah we do, but as all American trucks are imports they aren't included. I have never driven/ridden in an expedition mainly due to the fact that they don't even import them here. The only American fords we get are Mustangs which, IMO, are buckets of bolts. And I have never been in a Ford truck but I can attest that the Dodge has a much nicer interior than the Chev.

I'd much prefer a Land Cruiser over an Expedition anyway. Similar power, better build quality, more luxurious, they are smaller overall (better for a daily) and they would actually work unlike an American built truck XD

[CaliforniaMatt]

1. It's an Excursion, not.Expedition. Totally different
2. They were discontinued when the economy started to go downhill
3. It's basically a Super Duty

Land cruiser is in a completely different class, Excursion would eat it in towing, capacity, and power. Excursions aren't half bad offroad, either.

[Professional Russian]

Cummins Turbo Diesel for the win

[The Redlight Bandit]

1. It's an Excursion, not.Expedition. Totally different
2. They were discontinued when the economy started to go downhill
3. It's basically a Super Duty

Land cruiser is in a completely different class, Excursion would eat it in towing, capacity, and power. Excursions aren't half bad offroad, either.

No way in hell that a Toyota Land Cruiser could EVER be compared to an Excursion. Two different classes of vehicles in every aspect imaginable. :what:

[CaliforniaMatt]

The Excursion isn't a "luxury" car. A navigation system was never offered lol. It's in the same category as the Crown Victoria: it's meant to do work in decent comfort with a minimal amount of parts to break. Ford's very good when it comes to fleet vehicles: just look at the Ranger Crown Vic!

At the comment that Mustangs are buckets of bolts: The GT500 can go over 200mph has a back seat, is under $100,000, and has a great history. Possibly the most iconic muscle car ever.

[Wakesetter03]

1. It's an Excursion, not.Expedition. Totally different
2. They were discontinued when the economy started to go downhill
3. It's basically a Super Duty

Land cruiser is in a completely different class, Excursion would eat it in towing, capacity, and power. Excursions aren't half bad offroad, either.

Excursion/Expedition my mistake. My point was that they aren't sold here, and there is no way my father would sell the Dodge, which is well equipped, for a second hand rural vehicle. It would be going backwards in many ways. Undoubtedly they have a purpose over there but here the Ram is the best option available. And as I said in a previous, the Ram has impressed all of us with its build quality (better than the Chev) and the motor (coming from an extremely anti-Cummins family).

As for the Land Cruiser, I'm aware they are miles away from each other with their respective purposes for which they were built. However I was saying my opinion that I would prefer a Land Cruiser as, for me, it's the preferable car as an example.

Nothing against the Excursion, its just not my type of car.


The Excursion isn't a "luxury" car. A navigation system was never offered lol. It's in the same category as the Crown Victoria: it's meant to do work in decent comfort with a minimal amount of parts to break. Ford's very good when it comes to fleet vehicles: just look at the Ranger Crown Vic!

At the comment that Mustangs are buckets of bolts: The GT500 can go over 200mph has a back seat, is under $100,000, and has a great history. Possibly the most iconic muscle car ever.

I have my own reasons for disliking the mustang. I love classic mustangs but the new car is rubbish IMO. I will agree that the motor is amazing, but a live axle rear end in a 21st century car? That's ridiculous IMO.
Plus, I am not sold on the reliability/build quality of American cars in general. That being said, there are a few cars that I wish were sold here that are made there.

I am happy to change my mind about the Mustang though if the next generation is much improved, until then I'd prefer an Australian/Japanese/Euro alternative.

That's just me though, not saying everyone has to agree with me. That's just my $0.02.

Car choice is subject to personal opinion and what I posted was my opinion, no offense was intended.

[CaliforniaMatt]

The rear axle is kick ass for drag racing. It's a muscle car, it wasn't meant to be a Nurburgring tourer. I haven't seen too many problems with them: parts are very common, and everything is relatively easy to fix yourself. If you actually drive a GT500 off the line fast, you'll appreciate the beast. The only problem I see with the Mustang are some imposter owners: people who slap Boss, GT500, or SVT logos on them and installing a ricer exhaust.

[Wakesetter03]

The rear axle is kick ass for drag racing. It's a muscle car, it wasn't meant to be a Nurburgring tourer. I haven't seen too many problems with them: parts are very common, and everything is relatively easy to fix yourself. If you actually drive a GT500 off the line fast, you'll appreciate the beast. The only problem I see with the Mustang are some imposter owners: people who slap Boss, GT500, or SVT logos on them and installing a ricer exhaust.

How many of them are actually used for drag racing though? And it doesn't have to be a Nurburgring tourer, but it would at least be nice to have some fun on a windy road. I don't see how many things on a modern car can be easy to fix, particularly the 5.4/5.8's of the Shelby's unless you had the correct ECU cables and software from Ford. Obviously changing a rear diff would be easy because, apart from presumably a few sensors, as I have previously said live axles have been around for decades. Over here, we put the same motor in a four door sedan which would be a faster car on any track with corners. If Ford did similar things with the chassis and suspension on the Mustang, there is a chance I would like them.

However, I would also argue that any car that comes out with stripes on it does not come under my definition of "sleek" or "classy".

As I said though, it's my opinion that I think they are buckets. I have nothing against the people who like or own them, if it makes the owner happy isn't that all that counts?

[CaliforniaMatt]

Most of the Mustang owners I know prefer light-to-light racing and drag racing. I think it handles pretty well. It's nowhere as close to an Audi R8 or Ferrari- but it's not bad either. The engine is surprisingly user serviceable as well, scanners and related parts are out there. You can love it or hate it- but it's a kick ass straight-line car.

Mustangs are 'Murican, you'd understand it more if you were American. Putting down the Mustang is like calling George Bush a woman- blasphemy. It's not a "bucket of bolts." You guys like Utes, so of course our views are different.

[Wakesetter03]

Most of the Mustang owners I know prefer light-to-light racing and drag racing. I think it handles pretty well. It's nowhere as close to an Audi R8 or Ferrari- but it's not bad either. The engine is surprisingly user serviceable as well, scanners and related parts are out there. You can love it or hate it- but it's a kick ass straight-line car.

Mustangs are 'Murican, you'd understand it more if you were American. Putting down the Mustang is like calling George Bush a woman- blasphemy. It's not a "bucket of bolts." You guys like Utes, so of course our views are different.

That's the exact point I was trying (but failing to make). Different cars appeal to different people for different reasons.
A lot of people like Mustangs, personally I think they're ridiculously over the top (yobbo-ish if you will).

Personally, I prefer executive looking/styled cars. Others don't. It doesn't bother me that people don't share my tastes.

Btw, that is a bit of a misconception. Utes over here can be seen as 'bogan' (Australian equivalent of Redneck). Just because we are Australian doesn't me we all throw barbeques, drink excessive beer and like utes. People like that are actually a minority :P

[IAMWILL]

Why do you chip it? BTW, chipping is illegal in California, any sort of tampering with the ECU is illegal.

I'm pretty sure it is legal. I had my truck custom tuned and it passed all registration and smog. As long as your car doesn't throw a code when they check it, its legal, being that it first passes visual and tail emissions.

As for Powerstroke vs Cummins vs Duramax...
I'm going to go for Powerstroke diesels. Cummins either seem to be reliable or horrendously unreliable, I hear both sides a lot. Bottom line though is that most of them are 6 cylinders, so they can only haul so much. Duramax engines are good, but Fords 6.7L Powerstroke diesel gets better gas mileage and is more powerful, and more reliable from what I have seen, so they have the edge there. The transmissions on Fords may need a little work though, my friend has an 08 F250 lifted on 37s and his transmission needed major repair at 100k miles.

[CaliforniaMatt]

All australians throw barbeques, drink excessive beer and like utes.

Allison conversions for Fords are good, too.


My mechanic doesn't pass chipped cars at smog tests, even if no service lights are on. The computer pulls up info regarding a modified ECU, and they have to reset the unit and cycle the car for him to retest.

[Wakesetter03]

All australians throw barbeques, drink excessive beer and like utes.

Allison conversions for Fords are good, too.


My mechanic doesn't pass chipped cars at smog tests, even if no service lights are on. The computer pulls up info regarding a modified ECU, and they have to reset the unit and cycle the car for him to retest.

Hahaha of course, I was seriously just trying to hide our nations secret.

That must suck not being able to do any ECU mods. I have my car ECU flashed (standard ECU, new maps) which changed my car completely. With DBW throttles, an ECU with more aggressive throttle mapping doesn't add much power (particularly with my car being NA) but it makes it a different car to drive. Coupled with other mods, it adds respectable power.

Would they pick up on an ECU flash where you are?

[CaliforniaMatt]

The computer system my mechanic has picks up everything- MUCh more info than the trip computer shows xD
I think there's something going on with the system, though: I know for a fact that a Dinan Stage III flash will NOT come up. However, a custom tune has come up for friends.
I dont want to risk it.

[The Redlight Bandit]

I'm pretty sure it is legal. I had my truck custom tuned and it passed all registration and smog. As long as your car doesn't throw a code when they check it, its legal, being that it first passes visual and tail emissions.

As for Powerstroke vs Cummins vs Duramax...
I'm going to go for Powerstroke diesels. Cummins either seem to be reliable or horrendously unreliable, I hear both sides a lot. Bottom line though is that most of them are 6 cylinders, so they can only haul so much. Duramax engines are good, but Fords 6.7L Powerstroke diesel gets better gas mileage and is more powerful, and more reliable from what I have seen, so they have the edge there. The transmissions on Fords may need a little work though, my friend has an 08 F250 lifted on 37s and his transmission needed major repair at 100k miles.

In most situations, including mine & Matt's, any altering to the system would cause the truck to throw a code when it's hooked up to the computer. It would be risky to modify any major components due to not only wasted money but also time.

[CaliforniaMatt]

I'm happy with what I have lol.
If I need that much power, I'll get a GMC TopKick with a bed and rape all pickups.

[The Redlight Bandit]

I'm happy with what I have lol.
If I need that much power, I'll get a GMC TopKick with a bed and rape all pickups.

They're sick Matt, we got a Chevy Kodiak (Same as TopKick) at the yard that's used to move the tub grinder around and do stumps every now and then. Even though I'm definitely not a fan of anything GM, I have to say that it's a good little rig for it's size. Plus, it's got the same 'creature comforts' of a regular Silverado/Sierra pickup as well, so that's always good... :yeah:

[CaliforniaMatt]

I think the TopKick looks better when customized, especially like the one in Transformers.

http://image.trucktrend.com/f/8568715+w750+st0/163_0708_06z+2007_gmc_c4500_4x4_crew_cab_topKick+transformers_the_movie.jpg

[The Redlight Bandit]

I think the TopKick looks better when customized, especially like the one in Transformers.

image (http://image.trucktrend.com/f/8568715+w750+st0/163_0708_06z+2007_gmc_c4500_4x4_crew_cab_topKick+transformers_the_movie.jpg)

:usflag:

[CaliforniaMatt]

WE ARE AMERICANS AND DAMN PROUD TO BE HERE, AND IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR COUNTRY AND DON’T USE OUR GOD-GIVEN FOSSIL FUEL, DAMMIT!

read it on AutoWeek. 'MURICA FUCK YEA! That thing can tow all of London.

[The Redlight Bandit]

WE ARE AMERICANS AND DAMN PROUD TO BE HERE, AND IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR COUNTRY AND DON’T USE OUR GOD-GIVEN FOSSIL FUEL, DAMMIT!

read it on AutoWeek. 'MURICA FUCK YEA! That thing can tow all of London.

Lmfaooo that's fuckin awesome hahaha ^_^

[BpOlson]

Cummins

[nitrosteve]

whos ready for the upset. FORD OWNS CUMMINS.