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Nellerin
March 21st, 2013, 07:09 PM
Title is wrong, I mean LSD, typed it wrong in beginning :)


Excerpt from a book I was reading, I completely agree with it and feel that LSD/Shrooms should be made legal, what do you all think?

"I use the term 'psychedelic drugs' to classify those which have the ability to produce alterations in perception and consciousness without also producing disorientation. The most familiar of these drugs are three well-known hallucinogenic drugs: LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide), mescalin and psilocybin. No deaths from direct toxicity of these drugs have been reported. They are believed to be nonaddictive, and to that extent at least it is arguable that a general case for their legalisation is stronger than a case for such addictive drugs as heroin and other opium-based drugs, cocaine or the more recently produced synthetic, methadone. LSD was originally extracted from ergot (a fungus of rye or wheat) and was first produced in Switzerland as a synthetic in 1938. In its pure form it is a crystalline solid. Mescalin in its pure form is the main psychoactive ingredient of the peyote 'button'—the dried crown of the spineless cactus peyote, found in Mexico and western parts of North America.[1] Like LSD, mescalin today can be manufactured synthetically, but it is incomparably more costly to do so. Psilocybin is the effective ingredient of psilocybic mushrooms, affectionately known as 'magic mushrooms', of which there is a large variety growing wild in many parts of the world.[2] Mushroom gatherers are expected to be fairly knowledgeable about local varieties, however, or to carry with them a reliable manual, as many species are also poisonous.
A 'normal' dose of any of these drugs produces in the subject an abnormal state of mind over a period of a few hours—a state referred to by aficionados as 'a trip'. An LSD or mescalin trip lasts for about six to ten hours, although in some circumstances it can last for considerably longer. A psilocybic trip, reputed to be more visual than the LSD or mescalin trip, is somewhat mellower and usually lasts for about three to six hours. Provided that they are taken orally, which is usual, each of these drugs takes effect within about a half-hour to an hour. The intensity of the reaction reaches a peak in about an hour or so from its taking effect; it maintains its potency for a period of one to three hours and gradually, very gradually, wears off.
Where these psychedelic drugs are taken in their natural form, as they were originally and still are in many areas of the world, there can be little cause for anxiety. Morning glory seeds contain lysergic acid amide—an alkaloid derivative, which is very similar to, and about one-tenth as potent as, LSD. South American Indians have long been aware of the morning glory's special powers, and the seeds were used extensively by these civilisations several hundred years ago. Peyote buttons were used as an hallucinogenic sacrament by Mexican Indians long before Europeans arrived there. During the time of the Spanish conquest, worship of the gods through ritual consumption of this plant was widely practiced by the Aztecs and other Indian communities, who also used it for healing purposes and for foretelling the future. Similarly, psilocybic mushrooms were also used by the Aztecs for centuries and in religious rites 3,000 years ago by a number of Central American Indian tribes.[3]


In Summary
To sum up in a paragraph: although medical opinion is by no means the decisive factor in any enlightened dialogue on the subject, it would be impossible on the existing evidence for an honest government to convince an informed public that regular recourse to these nonaddictive hallucinogens would be as pernicious to health as regular recourse to, say, alcohol or tobacco. However, even if they were as pernicious, the power of the state may never be arbitrarily extended, within a libertarian dispensation, to proscribe those activities which the state pronounces to be injurious to the health of the individual. Nor is it enough to point to possible dangers to minors or to the likelihood of injury to third parties. Hundreds of goods on the market today carry some likelihood of injury to third parties. Thus, only if the degree of risk to which third parties are exposed is exceptionally high and in the case of psychedelic drugs it is (notwithstanding highly coloured press reports) remarkably low—may a case be made for state controls. In all other cases the state can best serve the citizen by spreading information and by legislation designed to maintain standards of purity. As for the effects on modern society as a whole of legalising the psychedelic drugs mentioned, the benefits would include a substantial contribution toward the reduction of existing crime, if only by releasing much-needed police resources currently engaged in preventing victimless crimes for the better protection of the public from real crime. Finally, in our technocratic civilisation, in which adjustment to the machine entails becoming like the machine, the hallucinogenic experience is one way of releasing, for a while, the faltering human spirit trapped inside the machine.[34]"

LuciferSam
March 21st, 2013, 07:12 PM
IDK
there are some positive effects, but hallucinogens can have some pretty serious impacts on your mental health.

Also, I hope you know that the thread title says LCD instead of LSD


Double Posts Merged. -StoppingTime

Nellerin
March 21st, 2013, 07:25 PM
Also, I hope you know that the thread title says LCD instead of LSD

Damnit, haha, that's what happens when I type fast.

IDK
there are some positive effects, but hallucinogens can have some pretty serious impacts on your mental health.

When used in the wrong way, yes, but if you do them right all studies show no long term negative effects. Only positive effects.

And LSD doesn't cause hallucinations.



Double Posts Merged. -StoppingTime

workingatperfect
March 21st, 2013, 07:33 PM
And LSD doesn't cause hallucinations.



...... Just curious, have you ever done LSD? I'm assuming not.

Nellerin
March 21st, 2013, 07:36 PM
...... Just curious, have you ever done LSD? I'm assuming not.

Yes I have, why?

workingatperfect
March 21st, 2013, 07:42 PM
Because it does cause hallucinations and anyone that's done it should know that. It may not cause full out like, flying elephants and stuff, but it does cause both visual and auditory hallucinations.

CharlieHorse
March 21st, 2013, 07:58 PM
Screens have a right to be LCD! :p

Apollo.
March 21st, 2013, 08:00 PM
Damnit, haha, that's what happens when I type fast.



When used in the wrong way, yes, but if you do them right all studies show no long term negative effects. Only positive effects.

And LSD doesn't cause hallucinations.



Double Posts Merged. -StoppingTime

LSD doesn't cause hallucinations? It definitely does! Maybe not oh god my dads a lion but it does distort things. I remember turning for a split at a sander van doorn show, and i could swear to god a dog was DJ-ing for that one second, once I blinked it was sander again it was weird thing also you feel although you can see music in my experience. Maybe thats what I get for mixing acid and a whole lot of illegals while at a dance music event though. But I would say acid makes you trip BALLLLS

Twilly F. Sniper
March 21st, 2013, 08:07 PM
Tax it maybe.

Nellerin
March 21st, 2013, 08:09 PM
LSD doesn't cause hallucinations? It definitely does! Maybe not oh god my dads a lion but it does distort things. I remember turning for a split at a sander van doorn show, and i could swear to god a dog was DJ-ing for that one second, once I blinked it was sander again it was weird thing also you feel although you can see music in my experience. Maybe thats what I get for mixing acid and a whole lot of illegals while at a dance music event though. But I would say acid makes you trip BALLLLS

That is not what it does. It stops the normal frontal lobe sensation blockers meanings you take in more color and view things differently but do not create things that are not there.

Apollo.
March 21st, 2013, 08:57 PM
That is not what it does. It stops the normal frontal lobe sensation blockers meanings you take in more color and view things differently but do not create things that are not there.

I had been told by friends that the trip must of been from acid, I can guarantee sander was a dog for second. It may have been a different drug causing that or a mixture of a few but according to my friends that know a lot more about drugs than me acid is the only one that could do that. Seeing the music I hear after some drugs is normal for me thats cause I'm weird I reckon. The dog thing was on ketamine, coke and ecstasy and acid is the only drug I could separate that apparently causes hallucinations. I don't know if things are the same for you as I react different to friends that take the same things. It's not a confrontation just an opinion

Nellerin
March 21st, 2013, 08:58 PM
I had been told by friends that the trip must of been from acid, I can guarantee sander was a dog for second. It may have been a different drug causing that or a mixture of a few but according to my friends that know a lot more about drugs than me acid is the only one that could do that. Seeing the music I hear after some drugs is normal for me thats cause I'm weird I reckon. The dog thing was on ketamine, coke and ecstasy and acid is the only drug I could separate that apparently causes hallucinations. I don't know if things are the same for you as I react different to friends that take the same things. It's not a confrontation just an opinion

Common misunderstanding, until you reach near lethal doses, hallucinations never occur on acid.

Apollo.
March 21st, 2013, 09:02 PM
Common misunderstanding, until you reach near lethal doses, hallucinations never occur on acid.

Out of interest, what drug would of caused that? Again not meant as an awkward question feel free to PM me the response I'm just curious!

Jean Poutine
March 21st, 2013, 11:32 PM
I've had a few shroom trips, have yet to have the pleasure of encountering LSD. It's pretty much dead here in Quebec, labs are much more interested in speed/methbombs because of the huge rave scene :(

I think that weed, shrooms and LSD should all be legalized, but the latter two should be restricted. They can exacerbate mental health problems in afflicted or vulnerable people and I've heard of people becoming utterly uncontrollable on a bad trip and just become batshit insane (moreso on shrooms - the effect is more down to earth than the dreamlike state of LSD).

IMO there should be a psychonaut license which would basically just be a class teaching you to respect what you're taking and basic precautions for the first few times (mood & setting, remove all dangerous objects, open up the area, have a sitter, etc) as well as psychological screening. No shrooms or LSD without the license, weed unrestricted but buyers have to be screened for schizophrenia first.

Out of interest, what drug would of caused that? Again not meant as an awkward question feel free to PM me the response I'm just curious!

Must've been the ketamine. If you took enough to get to a k-hole it can make you see pretty crazy visuals.

Horatio Nelson
March 21st, 2013, 11:51 PM
As said above, I don't think we want a bunch of (excuse my french) people losing their shit.

MrMundane
March 22nd, 2013, 12:16 AM
Common misunderstanding, until you reach near lethal doses, hallucinations never occur on acid.

Uhh... yu can't take a lethal dose, you just permatrip or just go mad. This happens at about 10 tabs or up depend on the person. A common misconception with hallucinations is that people expect pink elephants or the floor changing into liquid. This is only the case when multiple drugs are combined. Most of the time it's just kaleidoscopes in trees or shadows. Whether a person wants to see things or not also is a factor, either you control the drug or it controls you.

CharlieHorse
March 22nd, 2013, 12:24 AM
Uhh... yu can't take a lethal dose, you just permatrip or just go mad.

Everything has a lethal dose.
Every chemical has an LD50 that people should be aware of.

MrMundane
March 22nd, 2013, 12:30 AM
Yes there is a point when you will die from chemicals but your mind will be long gone by then so it doesn't really matter at that point.

Magus
March 22nd, 2013, 01:24 AM
I think all Soft drug should be legalized. Even those which causes delirium, and or just simply making you stoned.

Nellerin
March 22nd, 2013, 05:11 AM
Uhh... yu can't take a lethal dose, you just permatrip or just go mad. This happens at about 10 tabs or up depend on the person. A common misconception with hallucinations is that people expect pink elephants or the floor changing into liquid. This is only the case when multiple drugs are combined. Most of the time it's just kaleidoscopes in trees or shadows. Whether a person wants to see things or not also is a factor, either you control the drug or it controls you.

Erowid is the best place for drug info IMO.

This is from there site http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

Yes, 12,000 UG can cause death.

xmojox
March 22nd, 2013, 10:20 AM
LCD should definitely be legal. Plasma would get an unfair market-share if it weren't legal.

Sorry...aren't typos fun? I saw a screenshot of a text convo between some kid and his mom and he was asking her how to get cum outta his hair. He meant gum...it was funny.

Yeah, LSD-25 should be legal. It was unscheduled until like 1972 I think? Don't hold me to that and correction is most welcome. All reputable research shows that it's essentially harmless if used correctly and responsibly.

I personally think all drugs should be legal, though, because our "war on drugs" drains our economy and fills our prisons with perpetrators of victimless crimes.

Jean Poutine
March 22nd, 2013, 11:55 AM
Erowid is the best place for drug info IMO.

This is from there site http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_dose.shtml

Yes, 12,000 UG can cause death.

You'd have to be really motivated to overdose on LSD if you're using blotters.

MrMundane
March 22nd, 2013, 01:02 PM
so it would take about 300 tabs at 40UG at one time to kill you...please explain how someone could take $3,000 worth of LSD in one sitting. Besides exposer while making the substance or disposing of it.

Korashk
March 22nd, 2013, 01:31 PM
That is not what it does. It stops the normal frontal lobe sensation blockers meanings you take in more color and view things differently but do not create things that are not there.
Hate to break it to you, but that's a hallucination. Hallucination isn't limited to seeing things that aren't there, it's a very broad category that can incorporate any combination of senses. For example, seeing things that are there, but seeing them incorrectly is a hallucination.

Nellerin
March 22nd, 2013, 02:00 PM
Hate to break it to you, but that's a hallucination. Hallucination isn't limited to seeing things that aren't there, it's a very broad category that can incorporate any combination of senses. For example, seeing things that are there, but seeing them incorrectly is a hallucination.

Because guess what, those things that you see (extra colors, distorted images) are actually there, why do you think humans and say a Dog for example see things differently?

A dog is not hallucinating because it sees things different, neither does a person on acid.

You'd have to be really motivated to overdose on LSD if you're using blotters.

A lot of people end up moving past blotters after a few uses because it gets annoying and less convenient.

I'm not saying that amount of LSD is likely to be used but there have been cases where people have used just about that much.

Of course it is not likely, but there is always that potential.

Merged -StoppingTime

Horatio Nelson
March 22nd, 2013, 02:10 PM
So your point in all this?

Korashk
March 22nd, 2013, 03:00 PM
Because guess what, those things that you see (extra colors, distorted images) are actually there, why do you think humans and say a Dog for example see things differently?

A dog is not hallucinating because it sees things different, neither does a person on acid.
Notice how I never said "differently"; I said "incorrectly". Sure, those things you see are there, but the light doesn't reflect off of them differently simply because chemicals are interacting with your brain. The American Psychological Association defines hallucination (http://hallucinations.enacademic.com/81/American_Psychological_Association's_definition_of_hallucinations) as "a false sensory perception that has a compelling sense of reality despite the absence of an external stimulus." Both seeing objects in different colors than normal and seeing them warped and distorted fit that definition.

Just drop it and gracefully accept the fact that you were wrong. Being wrong is okay.

xmojox
March 23rd, 2013, 01:50 PM
Notice how I never said "differently"; I said "incorrectly". Sure, those things you see are there, but the light doesn't reflect off of them differently simply because chemicals are interacting with your brain. The American Psychological Association defines hallucination (http://hallucinations.enacademic.com/81/American_Psychological_Association's_definition_of_hallucinations) as "a false sensory perception that has a compelling sense of reality despite the absence of an external stimulus." Both seeing objects in different colors than normal and seeing them warped and distorted fit that definition.

Just drop it and gracefully accept the fact that you were wrong. Being wrong is okay.

Wouldn't the chemical itself be an external stimulus? I'm sincerely asking, not intending to be a smartass.

Korashk
March 23rd, 2013, 02:26 PM
Wouldn't the chemical itself be an external stimulus? I'm sincerely asking, not intending to be a smartass.
Interesting point, so I looked it up and I think it would be an internal stimulus because the chemical affects the body's homeostasis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulus_(physiology)

xmojox
March 23rd, 2013, 03:09 PM
Interesting point, so I looked it up and I think it would be an internal stimulus because the chemical affects the body's homeostasis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stimulus_(physiology)

Having read that, neither seems to be quite right. Maybe the APA was intending to mean that hallucinations come entirely from within a person's mind with no other cause, as in schizophrenia?

Sordid Saint
March 24th, 2013, 08:59 PM
I had been told by friends that the trip must of been from acid, I can guarantee sander was a dog for second. It may have been a different drug causing that or a mixture of a few but according to my friends that know a lot more about drugs than me acid is the only one that could do that. Seeing the music I hear after some drugs is normal for me thats cause I'm weird I reckon. The dog thing was on ketamine, coke and ecstasy and acid is the only drug I could separate that apparently causes hallucinations. I don't know if things are the same for you as I react different to friends that take the same things. It's not a confrontation just an opinion

It was the mixture of everything. The ketamine and acid together (i've done this too) will make you trip HARD. The dissociation alone from ketamine has made me hallucinate before, at pretty high doses though. I have done this at electronic music festivals and shows before and it is really crazy. You can feel the music, light pulses with the music, you can feel the energy in the air from the music. Anyway. I'm almost positive that it was from those mixing together.

I don't think that it should be made legal. People who want to do LSD and other things will still be able to if they want to. Since when has something being illegal stopped people from getting their drugs? In my opinion, making it legal would put it in the hands of people who can't handle it. It would be available for anyone to just go and get.