Why Christians are mainly hypocrites [Archive]

Nellerin

March 8th, 2013, 07:53 PM

Everyday when I talk to people that are "Christian" it becomes obvious that they are actually completely anti-Christian and anti-Bible. I'm willing to say that over 90% of so-called Christians are just using the title of Christian while not actually living their lives to the Bible at all.

Here are my examples of why this is the case

Generally Messed Up

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

"You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)

"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)

"And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)

"Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)

"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

Anti-Children and Anti-Life

Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?

Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?

1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.

Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.

Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.

If you are Christian, you better kill your kids!

Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”

Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.

Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.

Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?

Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.

2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”

So here is my point

Are there Christians that "live by the bible" and go around killing kids that misbehave or offering their daughters to be raped? NO

Therefore people that identify as "Christians" or "Bible-lovers" are lying and overwhelming fakes.

So in the end, if the Christian God is real, he is one messed up idiot that would be too busy causing chaos and murdering/raping people to control a Universe.

Guillermo

March 9th, 2013, 12:59 AM

Everyday when I talk to people that are "Christian" it becomes obvious that they are actually completely anti-Christian and anti-Bible. I'm willing to say that over 90% of so-called Christians are just using the title of Christian while not actually living their lives to the Bible at all.

You have already made a claim that has lost a lot of your credibility.

Here are my examples of why this is the case

Generally Messed Up

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

"Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)

"You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18)

"Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)

"And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)

"Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)

"Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)

"Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18)

All of these verses from the Bible

Anti-Children and Anti-Life

Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?

Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.

Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.

2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?

1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.

Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.

Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.

If you are Christian, you better kill your kids!

Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”

Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.

Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”

Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”

Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.

Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?

Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.

2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.

Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”

So, where do we even start?

1) All of the verses that you have quoted only concentrate on seemingly terrible events and teachings that have been depicted in the Bible. This shows an incredible amount of bias. Honestly, right now, you're no better than Fox News - only showing people a one-sided story.
2) Most of the books that you have within your quotes are from the Old Testament. The Old Testament as a whole is by no means invalid in terms of current times; yet at the same time, the Bible was written in the 1st century and all of it is not meant to be literally taken as the world has indeed modernized. Also, not only being a different time but a different place. Take this example: in the 1600's, it was OK for people to be flogged right in front of a whole city for their crimes. Do you think that's accepted today in modern, developed countries? No. I recommend that you take a look at this (http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/article_law_hays.html).
3) You must not understand all of the good things that Christianity has done for people around the world, since you're concentrating on the horrible acts committed. Complete ignorance if you ask me. Why don't we concentrate on positive results of Christianity? How about maybe education (http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4220739/k.E4FC/The_Social_and_Historical_Impact_of_Christianity.htm)? If it wasn't for the Christian faith, science wouldn't have been able to advance as far as it did. Here are some more positive (http://www.faithfacts.org/christ-and-the-culture/the-impact-of-christianity#education) outcomes that will relate back to the verses that you have quoted and modern times.

So here is my point

Are there Christians that "live by the bible" and go around killing kids that misbehave or offering their daughters to be raped? NO

No, because like civilized people, an overwhelming majority of Christians have updated their beliefs to standards of modern times. Welcome to the 21st century.

Therefore people that identify as "Christians" or "Bible-lovers" are lying and overwhelming fakes.

Another claim that has lost your credibility. And what gives you the factual evidence to claim this? I've seen none so far.

So in the end, if the Christian God is real, he is one messed up idiot that would be too busy causing chaos and murdering/raping people to control a Universe.

I'll be sure to listen to all of your non-existent claims again when I'm half-sober and feel like listening to heavily biased one-sided bullshit.

------------------------------------------

Also, it should be noted that I am in fact not religious, but I'm willing to be outspoken from a different point of view than I would normally take while still remaining impartial -- something that I've seen very little of on this site.

Sugaree

March 9th, 2013, 01:01 AM

SO BRAVE. SO ORIGINAL.

Get over it OP and let people believe what they believe. If they aren't impeding on you, don't impede on them.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 01:28 AM

SO BRAVE. SO ORIGINAL.

Get over it OP and let people believe what they believe. If they aren't impeding on you, don't impede on them.

Then why do we have schools? If people should believe what they want to believe then schools are a waste of time and money since people believing that waves occur because Poseidon is angry should be completely fine?

Wrong, ignorance is not a crime but it is a detriment to society and one of the largest proponents of ignorance is religion and in particular Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Jakers61

March 9th, 2013, 01:32 AM

Too much time here.

Gumleaf

March 9th, 2013, 01:34 AM

This argument has existed for a long time before and a long time to come. Prior to the new testiment, there was a lot of evil stuff going down and that is dipicted in the bible with realistic and symbolic accounts of things that happened. But at the end of the day, the simple message is this:

God is love, he created us in his image. He made himself nothing, took on the nature of a servant and allowed himself to be killed as a sacrifice for the sins of everyone. Believing in God and his sacrifice is the basis of the christian message.

I won't pretend all christians are perfect, far from it. Not one person will ever live up to the standards of God despite our attempts to. We are all sinners and that is the way it is. Some people who say they are christians are certainly not nice people. eg, i know of someone who was a christian going to jail for fraud. But at the end of the day, what i said before is the basis of the christian message and the basis of being a christian. Developing a Christ like attitude to life and living like Him is every christian's aim, but extremely difficult to measure up to.

People are free to argue what they want, but thats not my problem, it yours. I'm happy to tell people about my experiences with God because i believe He is real.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 01:43 AM

You have already made a claim that has lost a lot of your credibility.

So, where do we even start?

1) All of the verses that you have quoted only concentrate on seemingly terrible events and teachings that have been depicted in the Bible. This shows an incredible amount of bias. Honestly, right now, you're no better than Fox News - only showing people a one-sided story.
2) Most of the books that you have within your quotes are from the Old Testament. The Old Testament as a whole is by no means invalid in terms of current times; yet at the same time, the Bible was written in the 1st century and all of it is not meant to be literally taken as the world has indeed modernized. Also, not only being a different time but a different place. Take this example: in the 1600's, it was OK for people to be flogged right in front of a whole city for their crimes. Do you think that's accepted today in modern, developed countries? No. I recommend that you take a look at this (http://www.biblicalstudies.org.uk/article_law_hays.html).
3) You must not understand all of the good things that Christianity has done for people around the world, since you're concentrating on the horrible acts committed. Complete ignorance if you ask me. Why don't we concentrate on positive results of Christianity? How about maybe education (http://www.probe.org/site/c.fdKEIMNsEoG/b.4220739/k.E4FC/The_Social_and_Historical_Impact_of_Christianity.htm)? If it wasn't for the Christian faith, science wouldn't have been able to advance as far as it did. Here are some more positive (http://www.faithfacts.org/christ-and-the-culture/the-impact-of-christianity#education) outcomes that will relate back to the verses that you have quoted and modern times.

1. "Seemingly terrible" no they are not "Seemingly" terrible they are simply horrible acts of violence that are preached over and over again.
2. HAHAHAHAHAHA bro, OK where do I start now. Have you read the New Testament? Things are almost as bad and sometimes WORSE in the New Testament than the Old.

Also, you said the Bible was written in the first century. Ok, really? Are you mentally retarded. The Bible INCLUDES both the old and new testaments therefore it dates back hundreds of centuries before Christ.

3. The link you gave says "Why did science arise in the west and not the east" and then says Christians did it.

That is absolutely arrogant and false. The basis of science comes from the Middle East and Asia not Europe which was a backwater shit-hole for most of its existence.

Science addresses "how" questions, religion addresses "why" questions therefore religion is never needed in order for people to develop scientific theories.

This argument has existed for a long time before and a long time to come. Prior to the new testiment, there was a lot of evil stuff going down and that is dipicted in the bible with realistic and symbolic accounts of things that happened. But at the end of the day, the simple message is this:

God is love, he created us in his image. He made himself nothing, took on the nature of a servant and allowed himself to be killed as a sacrifice for the sins of everyone. Believing in God and his sacrifice is the basis of the christian message.

I won't pretend all christians are perfect, far from it. Not one person will ever live up to the standards of God despite our attempts to. We are all sinners and that is the way it is. Some people who say they are christians are certainly not nice people. eg, i know of someone who was a christian going to jail for fraud. But at the end of the day, what i said before is the basis of the christian message and the basis of being a christian. Developing a Christ like attitude to life and living like Him is every christian's aim, but extremely difficult to measure up to.

People are free to argue what they want, but thats not my problem, it yours. I'm happy to tell people about my experiences with God because i believe He is real.

And your thought on science, is it a bunch of fake stuff? :D Because if you do not think science is completely idiotic then God doesn't really fit in anywhere.

No one can prove God does not exist but I also cannot prove there is not a magical teapot that can transport us to Jupiter, does that mean the teapot is real? No not all.

A "god of the gaps" theory is one of the laziest and most ignorant things to believe in.

Please don't double post. Use the multi-quote button to respond to multiple posts. ~TheMatrix

IAMWILL

March 9th, 2013, 01:43 AM

Ryhanna

March 9th, 2013, 01:44 AM

I think it's very easy to say that Christian people are hypocritical, but I think that's a bit of a generalisation. Just because they don't follow every aspect of the Bible (or in some cases, follow very little), doesn't necessarily make them hypocrites.

People can easily believe in God, but not believe in the Bible, yet still choose to identify as Christian. Having faith in a religion doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with every part of it.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 01:49 AM

Why does everyone think Christians base their entire life on the Bible? That is such an illogical belief. Yes, there are certain sects that do, but the majority don't. The Bible is considered a history book, based on things that happened thousands of years ago. Of course its going to be out of date. Not to mention that a lot of the Bible isn't meant to be taken literally.

In the Catholic Church, which harbors over 1 billion Christians, all teaching is derived from the Natural law, which is basically everything involving faiths and morals, the only thing the Church teaches on, that can be discovered through reason alone. Science teaches everything else.

I'm sorry but I'm sick of the amount of people on this site that attack the Church. I don't post things every day about what wrong things atheists are doing in the world. I've never forced my beliefs on someone here. Yet I sense there is a huge amount of resentment against me and other members of the Church because of immaturity and misconception. There are a lot of people here that think they know everything, but in actually, they have no clue. Sorry, rant over.

And by the way, if we're talking about hypocrisy, I can not begin to count how often I hear atheists say "I swear to God" or start praying when they're going through a crisis.

Uhm Catholics are crazier than most of the others? lol

Ideas like "original sin", "holy trinity" and the idea that the Bible is error free and the revealed word of God are all catholic beliefs.

And all of those beliefs are insane, the only "props" I give to Catholics is that they have accepted evolution for the most part even though they still don't accept the scientific view of the origin of life.

Also, no real atheist has ever or will ever pray to god. Btw I am not an atheist.

I think it's very easy to say that Christian people are hypocritical, but I think that's a bit of a generalisation. Just because they don't follow every aspect of the Bible (or in some cases, follow very little), doesn't necessarily make them hypocrites.

People can easily believe in God, but not believe in the Bible, yet still choose to identify as Christian. Having faith in a religion doesn't necessarily mean that you agree with every part of it.

But if they do not follow the Bible and only believe in God, they are simply theists or agnostics not Christians. That is my whole point.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

Ryhanna

March 9th, 2013, 01:54 AM

But if they do not follow the Bible and only believe in God, they are simply theists or agnostics not Christians. That is my whole point.

That's not necessarily true. A person could identify as Christian, and believe in only parts of Christianity. Hence, they are neither theists nor agnostic. They are Christian.

IAMWILL

March 9th, 2013, 01:55 AM

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 01:56 AM

That's not necessarily true. A person could identify as Christian, and believe in only parts of Christianity. Hence, they are neither theists nor agnostic. They are Christian.

So they are just picking things from everywhere to make a belief that makes them feel good? :rolleyes:

That just shows a mental handicap when someone will believe something just to make themselves feel good.

Ryhanna

March 9th, 2013, 02:01 AM

So they are just picking things from everywhere to make a belief that makes them feel good? :rolleyes:

That just shows a mental handicap when someone will believe something just to make themselves feel good.

That's a fairly ignorant view, actually. They aren't picking things from everywhere, they're agreeing with a religion, but only to a certain extent, which is fine.

Isn't the basis of all religions to make people feel good? To give them hope, and answer unknown questions?

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 02:02 AM

What the hell are you talking about? This is the type of immaturity and misconception I was talking about. Crazy? Okay, sure, I'm not even going to venture there.

Secondly, "everything in the Bible is true". What? Where did you get that?! Did you even read my post or have any understanding of the Catholic Church? You seem to have less understanding of the Catholic Church than I would of something crazy like ophthalmic surgery. You seriously have no idea what you are talking about.

And the Church accepts whatever science says is the origin of life. The Church only teaches on issues of faith and morals, and that's it. Again, I have no idea where you got that from.

No, I think you don't know your own religion. Catholics are fine with evolution as long as they keep God in it. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4761196

The pope literally said (I am paraphrasing of course) "Evolution is fact but do not take out the presence of Godly intervention, as God had to make the leap from apes to humans possible and it could not happen just with science alone."

Yes, the Bible is "the inspired word of God" aka from God http://www.shsu.edu/~org_cath/faq-bible.htm

Please learn your Religion, seems like you do not know as much about it as you think. Guess your going to hell :D (joking of course, heaven and hell aren't real in the christian sense)

That's a fairly ignorant view, actually. They aren't picking things from everywhere, they're agreeing with a religion, but only to a certain extent, which is fine.

Isn't the basis of all religions to make people feel good? To give them hope, and answer unknown questions?

False hope? Ya sure that is all religion gives is false hope that just distracts people from reality.

And if they agree with the Bible at all then "only to a certain extent" is fairly sinful as there is little to no leeway in what people can choose to believe from the bible.

And the bible and religion doesn't answer anything, it only creates large questions.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

Sugaree

March 9th, 2013, 02:08 AM

Then why do we have schools? If people should believe what they want to believe then schools are a waste of time and money since people believing that waves occur because Poseidon is angry should be completely fine?

Wrong, ignorance is not a crime but it is a detriment to society and one of the largest proponents of ignorance is religion and in particular Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Belief is a personal thing for many people. School and teaching is completely different and you just pulled those out of your ass to make a straw argument. Unless the belief of a person is specifically impeding on you and your life, then you should have nothing to say about it being harmful.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 02:10 AM

Belief is a personal thing for many people. School and teaching is completely different and you just pulled those out of your ass to make a straw argument. Unless the belief of a person is specifically impeding on you and your life, then you should have nothing to say about it being harmful.

Last time I checked it has led to thousands if not millions of deaths, religion is easily one of the most harmful things in society.

Just because it doesn't affect ME doesn't mean I shouldn't talk about it.

Ryhanna

March 9th, 2013, 02:11 AM

False hope? Ya sure that is all religion gives is false hope that just distracts people from reality.

And if they agree with the Bible at all then "only to a certain extent" is fairly sinful as there is little to no leeway in what people can choose to believe from the bible.

And the bible and religion doesn't answer anything, it only creates large questions.
It doesn't really matter if it's false hope or not, if they choose to believe that, then they have every right to.

Obviously if they only agree with the religion to an extent, they're not going to give a shit if their choices are sinful or not. I mean, if they're choosing what they believe, they'd already be disobeying the elements of the Bible that they don't agree with.

The questions that religion raises and answers are subjective on one's beliefs. To you, it may raise more questions, to someone of faith, it may answer all the questions they care for.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 02:15 AM

It doesn't really matter if it's false hope or not, if they choose to believe that, then they have every right to.

Obviously if they only agree with the religion to an extent, they're not going to give a shit if their choices are sinful or not. I mean, if they're choosing what they believe, they'd already be disobeying the elements of the Bible that they don't agree with.

The questions that religion raises and answers are subjective on one's beliefs. To you, it may raise more questions, to someone of faith, it may answer all the questions they care for.

To any intelligent person it creates larger questions, in particular.

If God had a role in starting the Universe and creating life, that means an immensely intelligent being (more intelligent than a human) had to be inserted at the beginning of a evolutionary process which is never how things go.

Therefore it makes no sense, and God's origins are now a question whereas if you take God out of it, everything actually makes sense.

But no! Even though it makes sense, absence of God and heaven scares people which is hilarious in itself. That absence is what creates a greater NEED for religion which is sad to put in plainly.

Sugaree

March 9th, 2013, 02:17 AM

Last time I checked it has led to thousands if not millions of deaths, religion is easily one of the most harmful things in society.

Just because it doesn't affect ME doesn't mean I shouldn't talk about it.

But why do you care so damn much? You're 15, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Besides, if you want to go more in depth about religion, we have a thread for that.

I am certainly not disputing your claim, because it's partially true. However, to speak in such a way as to make it sound like another religious massacre will happen because these beliefs still exist is fucking lunacy. Just get a grip and leave people alone. I'm not saying you don't have a right to talk about it, but don't talk about religion and act like it's personally offending you.

Also, there's more religions than Christianity. If you want to talk about religion as a whole, go to the religion thread we have. To say that all religious beliefs lead to idiocy in people is untrue. Please, just calm down a bit and think.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 02:20 AM

But why do you care so damn much? You're 15, there's plenty of other things to worry about. Besides, if you want to go more in depth about religion, we have a thread for that.

I am certainly not disputing your claim, because it's partially true. However, to speak in such a way as to make it sound like another religious massacre will happen because these beliefs still exist is fucking lunacy. Just get a grip and leave people alone. I'm not saying you don't have a right to talk about it, but don't talk about religion and act like it's personally offending you.

The fact that I am 15 should have nothing to do with it. For example why do people like Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins go around preaching against religion and promoting science even though it doesn't affect them at all personally?

They do it because they want to make society at least somewhat intelligent and religion does the opposite.

Seems kind of screwed up that I must have something to personally gain in order for me to have a reason to do something, selfish idea right?

Sugaree

March 9th, 2013, 02:26 AM

The fact that I am 15 should have nothing to do with it. For example why do people like Lawrence Krauss and Richard Dawkins go around preaching against religion and promoting science even though it doesn't affect them at all personally?

They do it because they want to make society at least somewhat intelligent and religion does the opposite.

Seems kind of screwed up that I must have something to personally gain in order for me to have a reason to do something, selfish idea right?

The fact that you're 15 and act like a complete fool when it comes to discussing this. The bottom line is that religion is a big topic with lots of branches; to label all religious people as unintelligent is an insult to them. I've met plenty of intelligent Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, and even Wiccans. The majority of them are very intellectual people who come off much more secular than they do religious. Being religious is just something in their life that is their decision.

Just because you decide to follow a religion doesn't mean you're automatically making yourself unintelligent. What you imply is exactly that. "All religious people are idiots BECAUSE they are religious". This is the attitude people like Richard Dawkins take. They've got their heads just as far up their own asses as some of the most extreme religious people. So why go with one and not the other?

On another hand, I have yet to see any evidence claiming that religious persons are less intelligent than non-religious persons. If you can give some reference points, I might reconsider my argument. But until then, you've got no proof to back up this claim. To say that I, as a Buddhist, am unintelligent because I'm part of an organized religion is an insult on many levels. But it's not my place to judge, so I won't. You're young, you're impressionable, I've been there. So I'm not going to debate further.

Ryhanna

March 9th, 2013, 02:30 AM

Cicero

March 9th, 2013, 02:43 AM

Uhm Catholics are crazier than most of the others? lol

Ideas like "original sin", "holy trinity" and the idea that the Bible is error free and the revealed word of God are all catholic beliefs.

And all of those beliefs are insane, the only "props" I give to Catholics is that they have accepted evolution for the most part even though they still don't accept the scientific view of the origin of life.

Also, no real atheist has ever or will ever pray to god. Btw I am not an atheist.

Not just Catholics believe in the holy trinity, but Christians do. Catholicism is a part of Christianity, there's another half of Christianity that includes the smaller yet still big sides such as baptism and Lutheran.

You're just making a fool out of yourself. Youre just stomping on the beliefs of others for the hell of it. People go to school to learn facts, but people also have the right to believe in an afterlife and they should have that right without assholes like you stomping all over their beliefs. You're pushing your beliefs on people who believe choose to believe in something that gives them piece and comfort. Also, the bible did not advocate rape. Back in the day, arranged marriages were very common and not at all considered rape. Sure God is portrayed has love and such, but back in the Israelites time they learned to fear God on the sense of fearing to sin and use his name in a blasphemous way.

Websites like evilbible have shown verses that have either been written wrong (twisted) or they have been flip flopped (so instead of Revelations 20:12 they would first say Revelations 20:13 then say Revelations 20:12).

People believe in a religion because it gives them comfort knowing that there will be an afterlife, it gives some people a mission in life. So let them be and stop trying to call them stupid and ignorant. You call them ignorant when you're the one whos really ignorant.

IAMWILL

March 9th, 2013, 03:01 AM

No, I think you don't know your own religion. Catholics are fine with evolution as long as they keep God in it. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4761196
You're right, being that I'm not Catholic. I know more about Catholicism than I do about Presbyterianism, which I was baptized as. To the actual point though, yes of course God would have been involved in the creation of the universe, even science cannot explain how the point of singularity of which the Big Bang (theory, that is) came to be. I suggest you look at Thomas Aquina's 5 Proofs for the existence of God. They are very basic and somewhat old, but still solid.

The pope literally said (I am paraphrasing of course) "Evolution is fact but do not take out the presence of Godly intervention, as God had to make the leap from apes to humans possible and it could not happen just with science alone."
The Pope is referencing the Eternal Law of God and the belief that God is omnipotent and all-knowing. God isn't a being. But being that God has a plan for everyone and everything, then yes, God created and made evolution possible, which in the religious sense would make evolution, all science, and the entire universe unable to exist without God.

Yes, the Bible is "the inspired word of God" aka from God http://www.shsu.edu/~org_cath/faq-bible.htm
I never argued this. You said Catholics believe everything in the Bible is true. You should have refined your statement so as to not be so broad, because saying that Catholics believe everything in the Bible is true would include everything in the Bible being literally true, which of course the Church and Catholics does not believe.

Please learn your Religion, seems like you do not know as much about it as you think. Guess your going to hell :D (joking of course, heaven and hell aren't real in the christian sense)
Oh believe me, I know it very well. You are just nit-picking and making incredibly vague, broad statements. And heaven and hell are of no importance to me. I am not a good person because I want to go to heaven, I am a good person because I am made in the image and likeness of God.

Gumleaf

March 9th, 2013, 06:28 AM

In response to the op, i have to say your knowledge of the christian faith seems to be very limited at best and i find many of your claims to be so unreasonable and ignorant i'm beginning to wonder if you are delusional. I don't have time to go into detail, but i will make these points:

- Everyone is entitled to their opinion on whether they believe or not believe in whatever, whether it's God, Alla or a parrot outside your window. But to suggest that one's intelligence is based on their religious beliefs indicates to me a flawed arguement from a delusional person.

- Anyone can quote various parts of the bible to create an agenda. The problem with that is many parts of the bible uses symbolism and metaphors to describe various situations and events that took place. therefore, this indicates that many quotes people use to run an agenda are infact inaccurate when studied more closely and in context.

- The bible is infact a collection of ancient stories all put together to form the one book. It is split into 2 sections for a reason. The first half, the half where all your quotes come from are from the times before Jesus existed, when the world was in ruins. The second half talks about the heart of the christian message. When God essentially said enough was enough and he brought himself to earth, made himself nothing and allowed himself to be effectively murdered himself.

- Finally, the christian faith itself has nothing to do directly with the bible. It's believing in God, believing in his love and beliving he died on the cross for our sins. I've seen enough evidence of God in my life to believe this to be true. So you can call me whatever you want and make whatever claims you want, but when i'm the one in heaven we'll see who is right then.

Twilly F. Sniper

March 9th, 2013, 07:06 AM

Finally somebody got it.

In response to the op, i have to say your knowledge of the christian faith seems to be very limited at best

He provided textual evidence? {point to be refuted later}

- Everyone is entitled to their opinion on whether they believe or not believe in whatever, whether it's God, Alla or a parrot outside your window. But to suggest that one's intelligence is based on their religious beliefs indicates to me a flawed arguement from a delusional person.

This is actually entirely true.

Finally, the christian faith itself has nothing to do directly with the bible. It's believing in God, believing in his love and beliving he died on the cross for our sins. I've seen enough evidence of God in my life to believe this to be true. So you can call me whatever you want and make whatever claims you want, but when i'm the one in heaven we'll see who is right then.

This claim kind've makes you lose credibility. The opening is just about exactly like saying that "school has nothing to do with education." Otherwise, this is opinionated.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

anyone50

March 9th, 2013, 11:36 AM

Nothing posted in this thread will ever change anyones opinion on this subject people believe what they want to. Most Christians today are New Testament Christians and your examples come largley from the Old Testament. I'm not what you call a relgious person by most peoples standards. and i think hypocrites come in many different forms not just the Christians

Harry Smith

March 9th, 2013, 11:52 AM

Religion is such a diverse thing, look at Christianity for example you have Lutherans, Calvinism,Baptists, Methodists, cofe and catholics. You can't tarnish them all with the same brush due to the fact that they strongly differ on a number of points. The OP stated that christians are mainly hypocrites but are you citing the individual or the collective group?

Gigablue

March 9th, 2013, 01:16 PM

- Everyone is entitled to their opinion on whether they believe or not believe in whatever, whether it's God, Alla or a parrot outside your window. But to suggest that one's intelligence is based on their religious beliefs indicates to me a flawed arguement from a delusional person.

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, but those beliefs aren't above criticism. If a beliefs is illogical, someone should be able to point that out.

Also, there have been some studies showing a correlation between religions and intelligence. They tend to show that more intelligent individuals are less religions and vice versa. While you certainly can't predict intelligence based on religion, there is a correlation.

Source (http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201004/why-atheists-are-more-intelligent-the-religious)

- Anyone can quote various parts of the bible to create an agenda. The problem with that is many parts of the bible uses symbolism and metaphors to describe various situations and events that took place. therefore, this indicates that many quotes people use to run an agenda are infact inaccurate when studied more closely and in context.

While the bible is often misquoted, some verses are just horrible. There is no context in which they are acceptable.

- The bible is infact a collection of ancient stories all put together to form the one book. It is split into 2 sections for a reason. The first half, the half where all your quotes come from are from the times before Jesus existed, when the world was in ruins. The second half talks about the heart of the christian message. When God essentially said enough was enough and he brought himself to earth, made himself nothing and allowed himself to be effectively murdered himself.

Jesus specifically stated that he has not come to erase the old law, and that it should still be followed.

- Finally, the christian faith itself has nothing to do directly with the bible. It's believing in God, believing in his love and beliving he died on the cross for our sins.

Christianity has everything to do with the bible. It's the whole basis for the religion. All the teachings of Christianity came out of the bible.

I've seen enough evidence of God in my life to believe this to be true. So you can call me whatever you want and make whatever claims you want, but when i'm the one in heaven we'll see who is right then.

Personal experience is not useful for establishing facts. It is too subjective to be useful. While I can't speak for certain about your specific experience, most religious experiences are simply a product of coincidence or unusual brain phenomena.

Gumleaf

March 9th, 2013, 03:28 PM

Re my last post.... I may have given the impression that the bible has nothing to do with the Christian faith. That's of course incorrect and poorly worded on my part. What I mean is the teaching of Jesus' good news is the main part of the Christian message, however being intimate with bible chapters and stories is definetly not paramount to being a Christian...... I found it interesting from a poster above that the main part of the Christian faith of having a relationship with God and having personal experiences with him is where I lose credibility....... Finally, I don't believe I need to defend my faith and my experiences with God. This is all I'll say on this topic as this argument could go on and on and none of us will change our opinions. But be assured, I will be and continue to be in prayer for my vt friends and am excited to see the changes God continues to make in their lives.

IAMWILL

March 9th, 2013, 04:15 PM

Christianity has everything to do with the bible. It's the whole basis for the religion. All the teachings of Christianity came out of the bible.
This is completely false. In the Catholic Church, as well as many other Christians denominations, all teaching is derived from Natural Law, which is everything that can be known through reason and logic alone. Absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. As I said earlier, the Bible is considered to be a history book, not a rule book. Most of it isn't supposed to be taken literally either, and a lot of it is out of date.

This is by far the largest misconception about Christianity. People think that our religion is based on the Bible, and that everything in the Bible is true and we must follow it. I don't understand why people think that, it is really quite an ignorant belief. If you have studied religion at all, you know that is not the case.

Harry Smith

March 9th, 2013, 04:18 PM

Gigablue

March 9th, 2013, 04:20 PM

This is completely false. In the Catholic Church, as well as many other Christians denominations, all teaching is derived from Natural Law, which is everything that can be known through reason and logic alone. Absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. As I said earlier, the Bible is considered to be a history book, not a rule book. Most of it isn't supposed to be taken literally either, and a lot of it is out of date.

This is by far the largest misconception about Christianity. People think that our religion is based on the Bible, and that everything in the Bible is true and we must follow it. I don't understand why people think that, it is really quite an ignorant belief. If you have studied religion at all, you know that is not the case.

Some denominations do believe that the bible is completely and literally true. Others, like the Catholic Church, don't. I was mostly talking about those who take it literally. However, I don't think the bible is useful for history either. Many events cannot be verified, or are refuted by other, more reliable sources from the same time.

thisisben

March 9th, 2013, 04:29 PM

i do agree with what you are saying and i am only "christian" because my mum decided to get my christened and most of us are actually atheists,so my mother is the one to blame!.

Sir Suomi

March 9th, 2013, 04:45 PM

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 04:48 PM

Listen man, I'm not sure what Christianity did to piss you off, but you've got to lay off. You don't see any of us bagging on any other beliefs.

The bible was written a long time ago. Back then, men didn't treat women like they should. But that's how times were back then. Almost everyone thought like this, whether he be Jew, Christian, Muslim, whatever.

Ya I get that it was written a long time ago, but prejudices against women or gays or whatever are still OK in some peoples minds because the Bible, Torah or Quran said it is OK.

The vast majority of Christians are not living their lives like the people in the Bible, but when they hate on women or gays they tend to use the Bible to back them up, even in modern day society.

Sir Suomi

March 9th, 2013, 04:55 PM

Jinxxy

March 9th, 2013, 04:59 PM

I'm not a Christian, I'm a Spiritualist, but this is the biggest load of bullshit I've ever seen.

Just because somebody is a Christian, does not mean they have to become murderers or rapers just to discipline their misbehaving children.

As humans, we have a right to believe in whatever we want. But to look down upon other's for their beliefs - tear apart and dissect their religion and scrutinise tiny sections of their belief - that is wrong and you have no right to ever do that to anyone, regardless of your beliefs or how culturally diverse they are compared to you.

Stop being such a closed minded bigot and open your eyes to the bigger picture.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 05:02 PM

Well then they are dead wrong. The bible clearly states that you do not hate, instead you show love. It's our human ignorance that keeps us from achieving that.

There are some big contradictions in the Bible though.

"Thou shall not kill" and then God comes down and commands the death of entire groups of people.

Same thing for hate, there are multiple areas in the Bible that do say to kill people if they are homosexual.

They also say that women should not be allowed to speak in the Church.

The gospels and acts of the Apostles (and any other part of the new testament) seems to constantly contradict what they previously said.

Goes from "love" to "hate" very fast. A lot of it seems like the Bible doesn't practice what it preaches.

Sir Suomi

March 9th, 2013, 05:11 PM

There are some big contradictions in the Bible though.

"Thou shall not kill" and then God comes down and commands the death of entire groups of people.

Same thing for hate, there are multiple areas in the Bible that do say to kill people if they are homosexual.

They also say that women should not be allowed to speak in the Church.

The gospels and acts of the Apostles (and any other part of the new testament) seems to constantly contradict what they previously said.

Goes from "love" to "hate" very fast. A lot of it seems like the Bible doesn't practice what it preaches.

Depends on what branch of Christianity you're looking at. You wonder why there's different branches? It's because everyone has their own understanding. It's like putting up a set of vague directions on how to get to a destination. Some people will say, "We should go this way, that's what the directions say" and others saying "No, we need to go this way", different groups seeing it different ways. From what I've been taught, we're taught to love people, even if they are from a different religion, race, sexuality, etc. We're even encouraged to spend time with them, and try to teach them about God. So you see, not ALL Christians hate the homosexuals. Most actually don't. It's just the small majority who make us look like barbarians.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 05:12 PM

Depends on what branch of Christianity you're looking at. You wonder why there's different branches? It's because everyone has their own understanding. It's like putting up a set of vague directions on how to get to a destination. Some people will say, "We should go this way, that's what the directions say" and others saying "No, we need to go this way", different groups seeing it different ways. From what I've been taught, we're taught to love people, even if they are from a different religion, race, sexuality, etc. We're even encouraged to spend time with them, and try to teach them about God. So you see, not ALL Christians hate the homosexuals. Most actually don't. It's just the small majority who make us look like barbarians.

You'd be surprised how many hate gays, http://www.christianpost.com/news/44-percent-of-americans-believe-homosexuality-is-a-sin-survey-says-74758/

Gigablue

March 9th, 2013, 05:13 PM

Well then they are dead wrong. The bible clearly states that you do not hate, instead you show love. It's our human ignorance that keeps us from achieving that.

The bible has many verses with good messages, but also many which promote hate. Unfortunately many people use the hate filled ones to justify discrimination.

Listen man, I'm not sure what Christianity did to piss you off, but you've got to lay off. You don't see any of us bagging on any other beliefs.

The OP has every right to criticize Christianity or any other set of beliefs. It's called free speech.

The bible was written a long time ago. Back then, men didn't treat women like they should. But that's how times were back then. Almost everyone thought like this, whether he be Jew, Christian, Muslim, whatever.

That may be true, but unfortunately people still take those outdated verses to be true and live their lives based on them.

As humans, we have a right to believe in whatever we want. But to look down upon other's for their beliefs - tear apart and dissect their religion and scrutinise tiny sections of their belief - that is wrong and you have no right to ever do that to anyone, regardless of your beliefs or how culturally diverse they are compared to you.

Stop being such a closed minded bigot and open your eyes to the bigger picture.

As humans, everyone has the right to their beliefs, but no one has the right to have their beliefs go unquestioned. OP has every right to criticize Christianity or other religions. If something doesn't make sense, you should question it, even if that may offend people. If a religion can't stand up to scrutiny when questioned, why do people believe it in the first place?

Free speech gives you the right to criticize people and to offend them. As long as you don't spread hatred, you are well within your rights.

Also, how is criticizing religion closed minded? All it is is pointing out flaws in a set of ideas.

Jinxxy

March 9th, 2013, 05:16 PM

There are some big contradictions in the Bible though.

"Thou shall not kill" and then God comes down and commands the death of entire groups of people.

Same thing for hate, there are multiple areas in the Bible that do say to kill people if they are homosexual.

They also say that women should not be allowed to speak in the Church.

The gospels and acts of the Apostles (and any other part of the new testament) seems to constantly contradict what they previously said.

Goes from "love" to "hate" very fast. A lot of it seems like the Bible doesn't practice what it preaches.

Again, the Bible is more about the bigger picture than the tinier details.
Though I don't believe in God and the Bible as most people know it - because I'm a Spiritualist - I know that most Christians believe in loving thy neighbour and helping the sick, the poor and the lonely.

You are trying to make out this group of people are evil when, in reality, they are no more evil than the next group of people. We're all capable of being as evil as each other.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 05:19 PM

Again, the Bible is more about the bigger picture than the tinier details.
Though I don't believe in God and the Bible as most people know it - because I'm a Spiritualist - I know that most Christians believe in loving thy neighbour and helping the sick, the poor and the lonely.

You are trying to make out this group of people are evil when, in reality, they are no more evil than the next group of people. We're all capable of being as evil as each other.

Completely agree that being evil is not limited to religious people (obviously.)

But there is a consistent hateful undertone in the Bible that frequently makes itself prominent by specifically saying "so and so" should die.

Sir Suomi

March 9th, 2013, 05:19 PM

The OP has every right to criticize Christianity or any other set of beliefs. It's called free speech.

So does that mean I can go out and say "I hate all the gays they should go to hell!"

Now, I don't support that, but from what you said, that is acceptable?

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 05:21 PM

So does that mean I can go out and say "I hate all the gays they should go to hell!"

Now, I don't support that, but from what you said, that is acceptable?

Ya look at the Westboro Baptist Church, I hate what they say but it is allowed and "fine" in the United States.

Granted when it becomes threatening it is no longer OK, but simply saying "gays should go to hell" if fine by law.

Gigablue

March 9th, 2013, 05:22 PM

So does that mean I can go out and say "I hate all the gays they should go to hell!"

Now, I don't support that, but from what you said, that is acceptable?

There is a line between free speech and hate speech. Saying you hate a group of people and they should suffer is hate speech. Criticizing a group of people and saying their ideas are wrong is not.

Sir Suomi

March 9th, 2013, 05:25 PM

There is a line between free speech and hate speech. Saying you hate a group of people and they should suffer is hate speech. Criticizing a group of people and saying their ideas are wrong is not.

Well, I was just trying to make a broad generalization there.

How about we all just agree that yes, some Christians are in the wrong. But not ALL are similar in their views?

Gigablue

March 9th, 2013, 05:29 PM

How about we all just agree that yes, some Christians are in the wrong. But not ALL are similar in their views?

I definitely agree that not all Christians are hateful, and most of them are good people. I still don't think Christianity, nor any religion is correct, but I certainly don't hate Christians.

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 05:35 PM

Everyday I talk to sheep

I'm just wondering which site he pulled this from

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 05:38 PM

I'm just wondering which site he pulled this from

What?

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 05:46 PM

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 05:49 PM

Most people here I realize when making rants find all their information on some site and posts it here, I'm not discrediting you but I doubt most people even devouts have that many verses of tht lenght in their head,

And my quote of you, I just deleted most of the paragraphs because it took too much space, changes the entire context when you just pluck stuff out and add no background meaning doesn't it?

Of course I did not know all of those off the top of my head. I've read fairly large portions of the Bible but definitely have not remembered direct quotes for the most part.

Those were taken from an online Bible, and then I searched for specific areas that I knew had "hateful" lines in them.

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 05:53 PM

Alright the thing is though they were taken out of context and had no back ground story
Almost every religon preaches peace

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 05:59 PM

Alright the thing is though they were taken out of context and had no back ground story
Almost every religon preaches peace

Some of them were not though, and in what context does "kill homosexuals" fit that makes it ok?

Harry Smith

March 9th, 2013, 05:59 PM

Almost every religion preaches peace

Yet how come there has been so much bloodshed linked to religion, the Qu'ran stated a need for a jihad.

And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Look at the crusades, look at the pillaging of Africa in the 18th century by the Christian white minority. Look at the Israel conflict, that is based on religion alone. Look at the traditional 17th century battles Britain vs France, Protestant vs Catholic. You can't just make generalizing statements like your above when they are factually wrong

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 07:43 PM

Yet how come there has been so much bloodshed linked to religion, the Qu'ran stated a need for a jihad.

And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Look at the crusades, look at the pillaging of Africa in the 18th century by the Christian white minority. Look at the Israel conflict, that is based on religion alone. Look at the traditional 17th century battles Britain vs France, Protestant vs Catholic. You can't just make generalizing statements like your above when they are factually wrong

I did say most religions, islam in general is a pretty peaceful religion, but like in all things its the way you interpret it and the way you act, it was the actions of men that did all this, the bible never said that christians should be dominant over other christians nor the correct denomination, the colonization of africa was not due to religion, not mainly at least, the crusades were driven by war hungry men,

Cicero

March 9th, 2013, 07:47 PM

Ya I get that it was written a long time ago, but prejudices against women or gays or whatever are still OK in some peoples minds because the Bible, Torah or Quran said it is OK.

The vast majority of Christians are not living their lives like the people in the Bible, but when they hate on women or gays they tend to use the Bible to back them up, even in modern day society.

The bible doesn't teach hate. Some people just like to think that the bible is an excuse to hate on women or gays. The bible teaches tolerance and love, not hate. It may condemn certain acts, but does not say to hate those people. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Jesus himself was nice to the worst of the worst people, like the prostitutes and murderers. You are categorizing all Christians as women hating, gay bashing/hating, hypocrites. When in reality that's a small percentage. Many Christians love and respect women and love and respect gays.

IAMWILL

March 9th, 2013, 08:19 PM

So as a Catholic do you believe in Creationism?
No, of course not. And neither does the Catholic Church. The Church only teaches on issues of faith and morals. Science has shown how the universe was very likely created in the Big Bang theory, and whatever science tells the Church, the Church will accept. I really hope you don't think that all Catholics believe in Creationism, because the Church teaches that science is right.

Some denominations do believe that the bible is completely and literally true. Others, like the Catholic Church, don't. I was mostly talking about those who take it literally. However, I don't think the bible is useful for history either. Many events cannot be verified, or are refuted by other, more reliable sources from the same time.
Fair enough, but remember that the Catholic Church has over 1 billion members, and only an extremely small sect of Christians take the Bible literally and derive their teachings from that. So please be more clear next time.

Before someone else posts, can they please go do some research on Christianity so they know what they are talking about?

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 08:54 PM

The bible doesn't teach hate. Some people just like to think that the bible is an excuse to hate on women or gays. The bible teaches tolerance and love, not hate. It may condemn certain acts, but does not say to hate those people. Love the sinner, hate the sin. Jesus himself was nice to the worst of the worst people, like the prostitutes and murderers. You are categorizing all Christians as women hating, gay bashing/hating, hypocrites. When in reality that's a small percentage. Many Christians love and respect women and love and respect gays.

I specifically have said that I know not all Christians are like that. And does it matter if it says to not hate them, if the Bible still says to kill them, that is way worse than hate in my opinion.

Luckily modern day people do not follow those parts of the Bible.

Cicero

March 9th, 2013, 08:56 PM

I specifically have said that I know not all Christians are like that. And does it matter if it says to not hate them, if the Bible still says to kill them, that is way worse than hate in my opinion.

Luckily modern day people do not follow those parts of the Bible.

Yes, those parts are outdated (when it says kill your children if they're disrespectful constantly).

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 09:07 PM

Yes, those parts are outdated (when it says kill your children if they're disrespectful constantly).

I wouldn't call them outdated because I can't see a time in which they were ever things that made sense.

Cicero

March 9th, 2013, 09:08 PM

I wouldn't call them outdated because I can't see a time in which they were ever things that made sense.

In Jesus' time it wasn't outdated at all and it was in fact used.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 09:11 PM

In Jesus' time it wasn't outdated at all and it was in fact used.

So the people the wrote the Bible though it was fine to kill kids, and yet people today are fine with following a book written by those types of people?

Just trying to get this straight. If it made sense to kill kids in Jesus' time then they were extremely barbaric people and shouldn't continue to have a baring on our lives.

Cicero

March 9th, 2013, 09:14 PM

So the people the wrote the Bible though it was fine to kill kids, and yet people today are fine with following a book written by those types of people?

Just trying to get this straight. If it made sense to kill kids in Jesus' time then they were extremely barbaric people and shouldn't continue to have a baring on our lives.

No. If they were continuously disrespectful and cannot be controlled, then they were killed. It was common for the time, it didnt mean the people who wrote it believed it. We don't know what their values were other than the bibles values.

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 10:25 PM

So the people the wrote the Bible though it was fine to kill kids, and yet people today are fine with following a book written by those types of people?

Just trying to get this straight. If it made sense to kill kids in Jesus' time then they were extremely barbaric people and shouldn't continue to have a baring on our lives.

It was acceptted at the time, heck our world today condems hitting children (a spanking not black&blue child abuse) calling that barbaric, something many households still do and in some schools

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 10:33 PM

No. If they were continuously disrespectful and cannot be controlled, then they were killed. It was common for the time, it didnt mean the people who wrote it believed it. We don't know what their values were other than the bibles values.

Ya and those are in the bible values haha.

It was acceptted at the time, heck our world today condems hitting children (a spanking not black&blue child abuse) calling that barbaric, something many households still do and in some schools

Ya of course it is barbaric, any sort of hitting shows how retarded a parent/teacher is.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

Cicero

March 9th, 2013, 10:34 PM

Ya of course it is barbaric, any sort of hitting shows how retarded a parent/teacher is.

No, that's your opinion. Some parents do believe in spanking.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 10:38 PM

No, that's your opinion. Some parents do believe in spanking.

Ya doesn't make it right. They are mentally retarded for thinking it makes any sense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/21/spanking-is-bad-for-child_n_288989.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1983895,00.html
http://life.familyeducation.com/parenting/spanking/45304.html

It is barbaric and only hurts kids in the long run, AKA bad parents.

From from just an opinion, I speak facts.

Cicero

March 9th, 2013, 10:39 PM

Ya doesn't make it right. They are mentally retarded for thinking it makes any sense.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/21/spanking-is-bad-for-child_n_288989.html
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1983895,00.html
http://life.familyeducation.com/parenting/spanking/45304.html

It is barbaric and only hurts kids in the long run, AKA bad parents.

From from just an opinion, I speak facts.

Saying they're retarded is pretty rude and offensive.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 10:40 PM

Saying their retarded is pretty rude and offensive.

They are hurting and abusing their kids, why should I be nice to an abuser?

That is like being nice to a rapist. And fine, not retarded, mentally challenged better?

They are actively ruining their kids, something is wrong with them.

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 10:41 PM

Ya of course it is barbaric, any sort of hitting shows how retarded a parent/teacher is.

That's just your opinion,

How are they actively ruining their children?

Also I said parents should spank and not full force TKO the kid, you just never been brought up like that and from tht abgle calling it wrong

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 10:42 PM

That's just your opinion,

Look at links I just gave.

Scientifically proven to be horrible to any child. Spanking absolutely ruins kids.

So not an opinion at all. Parents who hit are horrible parents, got science on my side with that.

Cicero

March 9th, 2013, 10:43 PM

They are hurting and abusing their kids, why should I be nice to an abuser?

That is like being nice to a rapist. And fine, not retarded, mentally challenged better?

They are actively ruining their kids, something is wrong with them.

Mentally challenged is still rude. You're basically mocking the mentally retarded/challenged. It's like saying "Those parents are gay" as if gay is a bad thing when its not. The word gay is misused just how you misuse the term mentally retarded/Challenged.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 10:45 PM

Mentally challenged is still rude. You're basically mocking the mentally retarded/challenged. It's like saying "Those parents are gay" as if gay is a bad thing when its not. The word gay is misused just how you misuse the term mentally retarded/Challenged.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Mentally+challenged

There you go, mentally challenged "inability to function normally" aka you are not acting right. And attacking your own kids is not acting right.

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 10:46 PM

They are hurting and abusing their kids, why should I be nice to an abuser?

That is like being nice to a rapist. And fine, not retarded, mentally challenged better?

They are actively ruining their kids, something is wrong with them.

Look at links I just gave.

Scientifically proven to be horrible to any child. Spanking absolutely ruins kids.

So not an opinion at all. Parents who hit are horrible parents, got science on my side with that.

Apparently one of the scientists who proposed grounding and no hitting in school, kid commited suicide

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 10:47 PM

Apparently one of the scientists who proposed grounding and no hitting in school, kid commited suicide

Are you that much of an idiot? Hitting is detrimental to a kids brain, and you use some random ass example of some kid killing himself, when that has nothing to do with anything?

Get a real argument, please, I beg of you.

Cicero

March 9th, 2013, 10:53 PM

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Mentally+challenged

There you go, mentally challenged "inability to function normally" aka you are not acting right. And attacking your own kids is not acting right.

Retard- delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment.

Are you that much of an idiot? Hitting is detrimental to a kids brain, and you use some random ass example of some kid killing himself, when that has nothing to do with anything?

Get a real argument, please, I beg of you.

Actually it's not random, also, you're a jerk for calling him an idiot. Get a better more appropriate vocabulary instead of insulting someone, please, I beg you. Now, please stop quoting me I would like to be done here.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 10:55 PM

Retard- delay or hold back in terms of progress, development, or accomplishment. Please stop quoting me, cause I would like to be done here.

Good be done, you lost its fine, we all lose and win some. Why'd you give a definition of retard when I switched to mentally challenged haha, I win on that argument so you create another one to make it seem like I didn't.

Whatever bro, peace.

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 10:57 PM

The verasimilitude of the matter is, is that ur head is stuck in a morass, no way are you a pundit, right now ur lying all supine making bombastic posts and not assuaging the problem, I said in obloquy that simply a spanking would be more effective than other methods and that also just like some people believe that spanking was alright, so was killing your children if need be unfortunatley, all your doing is being a risible person

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 10:57 PM

Actually it's not random, also, you're a jerk for calling him an idiot. Get a better more appropriate vocabulary instead of insulting someone, please, I beg you. Now, please stop quoting me I would like to be done here.

Idiot makes sense since he doesn't seem to understand that hitting is proven to be bad.

The verasimilitude of the matter is, is that ur head is stuck in a morass, no way are you a pundit, right now ur lying all supine making bombastic posts and not assuaging the problem, I said obloquy that simply a spanking would be more effective than other methods and that also just like some people believe that spanking was alright, so was killing your children if need be unfortunatley, all your doing is being a risible person

LOL spanking is NEVER alright unless you are trying to ruin a kids mental stability. Seriously kid LEARN. There is not ONE situation where spanking is better than grounding a kid.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 11:02 PM

san fransiscoLike I said the guy who proposed grounding and no hitting in school son commited suicide and here you are talking about mental stability, plenty of households still do it, yours obviously doesn't, also tell me what I said about spanking

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 11:07 PM

like i said the guy who proposed grounding and no hitting in school son commited suicide and here you are talking about mental stability, plenty of households still do it, yours obviously doesn't,

there is proof, scientific proof, that it ruins kids mental stability. How can you physically argue that without being a complete imbecile.

Swa19

March 9th, 2013, 11:09 PM

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 11:11 PM

I didn't read the entire thread because it was just a OP being a hypocrite himself. If Christians are supposed to follow every single bit of the bible then you should for "science" or whatever you think people should believe in. Have you ever drove in a car to somewhere that you could have walked? Science shows that cars produce pollution that is bad for the ecosystem, and you could have walked there. So you are a hypocrite by your logic. Also seem to be pretty strong with "mainstream morals/beliefs" for lack of a better term. So why aren't you studying your ass off to become a genius and create the next affordable means of transportation that's faster than a car? I could go on and on.

You're right (whenever you said it a few pages back) you can say whatever the fuck you want, so why can't a christian believe whatever the fuck he/she wants? This is also coming from a "non-believer", purely because you are the kind of idiot that gives people who don't believe in religion the bad name/stereo type of being a complete asshole. You waste not only your time but other people's times to try and take something away from them to "help society" when you are not going to change anyone's mind by being a complete moron and an asshole. So you are currently harming society more than people saying a prayer to a god (real or fake) to help them go to sleep and get up the next morning.

Haha the good names in non-believers are people like Hitchens, Richard Dawkins and Lawrence Krauss who are more outspoken than me.

And yes, in fact, I believe every scientifically proven thing so that little attempt at a dig was pointless.

Like I said the guy who proposed grounding and no hitting in school son commited suicide and here you are talking about mental stability, plenty of households still do it, yours obviously doesn't, also tell me what I said about spanking

Also, this......

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health/shu-spanking-mental-illness
http://family.go.com/parenting/pkg-preschool/article-809883-why-spanking-is-bad-discipline-t/
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/relationships-and-special-occasions/parenting/studies-show-spanking-is-bad-for-the-child-and-the/article_4e0e9daa-679d-11e1-98c4-0019bb30f31a.html
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/spanking/10-reasons-not-hit-your-child
http://www.divinecaroline.com/life-etc/spanking-your-children-good-or-bad

Try and fucking argue with that.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 11:19 PM

sWell they did say you could hit the kid though right?

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 11:20 PM

Well they did say you could hit the kid though right?

No, they directly say that it results in the kids having mental issues and being violent.

Swa19

March 9th, 2013, 11:21 PM

Gigablue

March 9th, 2013, 11:21 PM

Please stay on topic and stop with the insults. I will lock this thread if it gets out of control.

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 11:24 PM

So you take every precaution in your life to be "eco-friendly" and improve not only yourself but everyone around you? Oh wait! You already have shown you don't by trying to put Christians down here! You actually may have some sort of mental disability kid.

But hey, lets have fun with this. If you completely renounce all religion then why do you take such a strong stand on things that you use your morals to "prove"? If we are here for no other reason than the fact that it happened by chance, then why are morals right? Morals are formed off of religion. Things like the ten commandments. "laws" set by a god to tell you what is right or wrong. I can guarantee you that if there was no religion then those wouldn't exist if religion never existed. So essentially you are basing some of your beliefs off of religious based ideas and not science based ideas?

Morals are not formed by religion, it has been proven (once again by science) that evolution sculpted brains to act in certain ways to situations.

Having certain basic morals were favorable and therefore expanded upon via evolution resulting in how we are now. That is why if someone grows up with literally no religion around them, they are not automatically bad people. Morals are part of natural instinct.

Religion only gives a "reason" or "incentive" to be moral.

So you take every precaution in your life to be "eco-friendly" and improve not only yourself but everyone around you? Oh wait! You already have shown you don't by trying to put Christians down here! You actually may have some sort of mental disability kid.

But hey, lets have fun with this. If you completely renounce all religion then why do you take such a strong stand on things that you use your morals to "prove"? If we are here for no other reason than the fact that it happened by chance, then why are morals right? Morals are formed off of religion. Things like the ten commandments. "laws" set by a god to tell you what is right or wrong. I can guarantee you that if there was no religion then those wouldn't exist if religion never existed. So essentially you are basing some of your beliefs off of religious based ideas and not science based ideas?

And I have not tried to put individual christians down, read the Original post. I specifically said that most christians are not actually christians because they are good people lol.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 11:26 PM

h

Well you your source agrees with me

Yes, Acceptable
Noted parenting expert John Rosemond will have none of this. Using a simple term of his own, he calls a ban on parental spanking “hogwash.” Rosemond says there is no credible evidence that spanking is harmful to children, and he doubts any assertion that spanking damages the parent-child relationship. “I talk to people my age who were spanked, some with belts or other devices, by their parents. With very rare exception, they claim to love their parents.”

Giga, my bad the OP is just being very funny

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 11:28 PM

Well you your source agrees with me

Yes, Acceptable
Noted parenting expert John Rosemond will have none of this. Using a simple term of his own, he calls a ban on parental spanking “hogwash.” Rosemond says there is no credible evidence that spanking is harmful to children, and he doubts any assertion that spanking damages the parent-child relationship. “I talk to people my age who were spanked, some with belts or other devices, by their parents. With very rare exception, they claim to love their parents.”

Giga, my bad the OP is just being very funny

I gave you multiple sources each one talks to multiple people, therefore over 90% of professionals in the area say spanking is bad. The actual statistics show it is.

That doctor was giving a personal opinion not based in facts. Therefore it doesn't apply to anything. Look at the stats, kids that are spanked are at higher risks of numerous things.

Not to mention it is considered abuse and you can be arrested when you are adults, why is it fine with young helpless kids?

Well you your source agrees with me

Yes, Acceptable
Noted parenting expert John Rosemond will have none of this. Using a simple term of his own, he calls a ban on parental spanking “hogwash.” Rosemond says there is no credible evidence that spanking is harmful to children, and he doubts any assertion that spanking damages the parent-child relationship. “I talk to people my age who were spanked, some with belts or other devices, by their parents. With very rare exception, they claim to love their parents.”

Giga, my bad the OP is just being very funny

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1983895,00.html

Merged double post. -Gigablue

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 11:32 PM

I like turtles

90% of statistics are made on the spot

Nellerin

March 9th, 2013, 11:33 PM

90% of statistics are made on the spot

Long term studies are not on the spot, and the long term studies show negative effects as the child grows up. That is a fact.

Swa19

March 9th, 2013, 11:38 PM

Morals are not formed by religion, it has been proven (once again by science) that evolution sculpted brains to act in certain ways to situations.

Having certain basic morals were favorable and therefore expanded upon via evolution resulting in how we are now. That is why if someone grows up with literally no religion around them, they are not automatically bad people. Morals are part of natural instinct.

Religion only gives a "reason" or "incentive" to be moral.

You have a pretty good point, but i would like to see proof on that if its true. Saying that the human brain was "sculpted" by evolution sounds VERY much like a conscious being had done it.

Word play aside. If a person was raised without any religious influence they would still have the influence of modern morals wouldn't they? Which MODERN MORALS are based off of religion. The idea that murder is wrong? The 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill.". Cheating on people is wrong? The 7th commandment is "Thou shalt not commit adultery.". I could list the rest but i think that should be enough for now. My point is that those are VERY VERY similar to each other to say that these "morals" are not influenced by religion at all.

It is instinct in nature to do what you need to do to survive. Animals kills other animals of the same species all the time. The ones that don't, do it based off of pure self "desire"(because having another gorilla with them helps them not be threatened by other animals). They do what they do to make sure THEY/THEMSELVES survive, not because they thinks its wrong.

You do have some good points and some info to back it up, but don't take religion away from others. It's very hypocritical regardless of how you try to make it not seem so. Instead of wasting your time disproving religion you should put your efforts towards PROVING your beliefs. Then people will convert.

TheBigUnit

March 9th, 2013, 11:46 PM

Long term studies are not on the spot, and the long term studies show negative effects as the child grows up. That is a fact.

Just like statistics studies aren't always true

Here's a study showing spanking is ok
http://www.thenewamerican.com/culture/family/item/548-new-study-finds-spanking-is-good-for-kids
http://www.parentdish.com/2010/01/05/researcher-says-a-little-spanking-is-good-for-kids/
http://madamenoire.com/40373/8-reasons-to-spank-your-kids/
http://www.ilovebeingadad.com/2009/11/15/positive-parenting-spanking-is-good/

Harry Smith

March 10th, 2013, 06:03 AM

You have a pretty good point, but i would like to see proof on that if its true. Saying that the human brain was "sculpted" by evolution sounds VERY much like a conscious being had done it.

You do have some good points and some info to back it up, but don't take religion away from others. It's very hypocritical regardless of how you try to make it not seem so. Instead of wasting your time disproving religion you should put your efforts towards PROVING your beliefs. Then people will convert.

A conscious being didn't create the human brain, if you look back the origins of earth life comes from sea living bacteria. This bacteria then kept evolving over a period of million's of year. The whole idea that the human race was designed by some-one is fundamentally incorrect and wrong. Look at the peppered moth, that's the perfect example of evolution and survival of the fittest

My beliefs are already backed up by an extremely large percentage of the scientific community, I don't have the funds or the skills to be able to carry out independent research proving Evolution, however I can use evidence already presented as Secondary Research. I wouldn't say I'm wasting my time in try to disprove religion, In fact I think that the spread of knowledge is a positive use of time

TheBigUnit

March 10th, 2013, 07:07 AM

Long term studies are not on the spot, and the long term studies show negative effects as the child grows up. That is a fact.

By the way thanks for the neg rep :)

Gigablue

March 10th, 2013, 08:14 AM

Word play aside. If a person was raised without any religious influence they would still have the influence of modern morals wouldn't they? Which MODERN MORALS are based off of religion. The idea that murder is wrong? The 6th commandment "Thou shalt not kill.". Cheating on people is wrong? The 7th commandment is "Thou shalt not commit adultery.". I could list the rest but i think that should be enough for now. My point is that those are VERY VERY similar to each other to say that these "morals" are not influenced by religion at all.

The idea the modern is wrong is not based off of religion. People have evolved a natural aversion to killing each other, since it would be bad for the species. It benefits our species to punish those who kill others as a deterrent. Look at less religious countries, they tend to have very low crime rates.

Religion based its laws off of innate human morals, not the per way around.

ayelove100

March 10th, 2013, 06:25 PM

To any intelligent person it creates larger questions, in particular.

If God had a role in starting the Universe and creating life, that means an immensely intelligent being (more intelligent than a human) had to be inserted at the beginning of a evolutionary process which is never how things go.

Therefore it makes no sense, and God's origins are now a question whereas if you take God out of it, everything actually makes sense.

But no! Even though it makes sense, absence of God and heaven scares people which is hilarious in itself. That absence is what creates a greater NEED for religion which is sad to put in plainly.

You need to understand God/Allah is not human! This is what causes people to have doubts about religion, because they think there is a human that created us all. No, allah is not human and is the creator of mankind and the universe. Nothing was before him or after him. Maybe you guys are thinking religion is just fairy tales and stuff but no, religion is what shapes your ending and you need to learn more about religion. I know that there are a lot of atheiest here and i hope no one will be offended because we all choose what we want our afterlife to be like. God is mercifull but you have to have an open mind and actually take the chance to learn about religion. I willl tell you this, christianity will make your mind blow because it makes no sense. They believe there is only one god yet they believe there are three (Mariam, Jesus, and God) this makes no sense, GOD IS NOT HUMAN WHY WOULD HE HAVE A CHILD WITH HIS OWN CREATION! Think of this as well. Adam (peace be upon him) was created with no mother or father, Eve was created with no mother, and Jesus was born with no father and born with only a mother. God has the power to do anything at his will. Christianity confuses the hell out of me that is why I converted. Also i am not trying to be rude in any way to all people of all religion. It is our own choice to be whatever religion we want, but its our duty to let people know about Islam. :)

WalkingOnDisaster

March 10th, 2013, 06:46 PM

drew6

March 11th, 2013, 05:50 PM

A lot of the bible is pre-Christian, before Christ. I'd give a whole lot more weight to Christ's teachings than the stuff before he was alive. I view the old testament as to what lead up to Christ living among us. You got me thinking though because is the old testament more of a set of Jewish books? IDK.

I think Christians should focus on Christ's teachings while he was alive and to a smaller amount, what was written after he died and to a much lesser extent what was written before he was alive.

Gotta admit, i've met a bunch of people who call themselves Christians who don't treat people like Christ would have. Kinda makes me cringe.

Granted I don't know a ton, but the things I think are really important are:
Treat others how you would want to be treated.
Treat others as if they were Christ himself instead of who they are (that's hard to do)
Love your enemy with all your heart. (nother hard one)
Spend some quiet time with God every day.
Read a little of the New TEstament every day.
Remember that I will be judged by how I judge others.

I'm sure there are more important things than what I wrote. THat's just off the top of my head, but they are the things I focus on.

I try to be kind and sadly, i have to try or pay attention to do it sometimes. Like when other kids are "bullying" another kid and i force myself to step in even though i'd rather pretend i didn't hear or see what was going on which would be super easy to pretend that.

I think life is hard at different times for people, but steppin up and doing the right thing for someone else becomes more of an instinct as time goes on i hope. Until that happens, i'll just have to work on it.

anyway, nice question/post OP

dontfiguremeout

March 12th, 2013, 08:30 AM

Because so many Christians believe they are the top dog. It's extremely sad, because I am a Christian myself. Most of them just go to Church on Sunday, ask for forgiveness, and sing for the glory of grace, then maybe go to a connection group in the middle of the week, and that's it. The rest they just live a life where they think they are better and everyone must be a Christian if they want to live in Heaven. Now I don't believe that one bit. What they do is complete BS. To be a true Christian you need to live the true meaning of Christ within your community and also yourself. Now to live it in your community means doing random acts of kindness, praying for your enemies and being kind to them too, helping out your community with community service for the goodness of your heart. Now living it for yourself means cleansing yourself from sin by asking for forgiveness, trying not to sin, actually read the scripture to get the true meaning out of it and actually go live it out, not just read because it's the bible and you should be reading it. What good does that make? But not all Christians are bad, you'll come across some that are down to heart! I'm a really good Christian because I don't judge, I respect everyone, and I don't force anyone becoming one. I actually live the true meaning of Christ and I care for everyone. But yes, I do get really mad at those people who call themselves "Christians" and never actually live by Christ. They only do that so they can sin and then they know they can ask for forgiveness.

ayelove100

March 12th, 2013, 03:21 PM

No, they directly say that it results in the kids having mental issues and being violent.

I dont think spanking your kid is a big issue, and no it wont result in a big problem. It only lets your kids learn a lesson. Parents shouldnt spank too hard though, but yes if you dont show your kid some consquences they won't learn a lesson, yelling at a kid doesnt do crap to them. They really dont get affected much by yelling at them. I do believe though spanking should be the last result of a consequence and that you should talk to them first kindly. I dont think that spanking ur kid is a big deal though. In Islam though you cannot leave a mark on your child from the beating so you cant hit your child so hard as to leave marks and bruises. Again this would be religion wise and as well this is a last resort so you should talk to your children first.

Nellerin

March 12th, 2013, 07:46 PM

I dont think spanking your kid is a big issue, and no it wont result in a big problem. It only lets your kids learn a lesson. Parents shouldnt spank too hard though, but yes if you dont show your kid some consquences they won't learn a lesson, yelling at a kid doesnt do crap to them. They really dont get affected much by yelling at them. I do believe though spanking should be the last result of a consequence and that you should talk to them first kindly. I dont think that spanking ur kid is a big deal though. In Islam though you cannot leave a mark on your child from the beating so you cant hit your child so hard as to leave marks and bruises. Again this would be religion wise and as well this is a last resort so you should talk to your children first.

Hmm then why does every bit of evidence show that grounding a kid/ giving them a timeout does far more than spanking them. And why does every bit of research show that spanking leads to multiple emotional issues later in their teenage years?

Your post is false, sorry. Even touching another adult can be assault and an arrest-able offence, yet its ok to hit someone significantly weaker than an adult?

ayelove100

March 12th, 2013, 07:56 PM

Hmm then why does every bit of evidence show that grounding a kid/ giving them a timeout does far more than spanking them. And why does every bit of research show that spanking leads to multiple emotional issues later in their teenage years?

Your post is false, sorry. Even touching another adult can be assault and an arrest-able offence, yet its ok to hit someone significantly weaker than an adult?

By whom was the research founded by. Can you answer that. How many people did they research as well. Hitting very hard leads to very bad things, i can agree on that. But hitting like spanking that does hurt but not very badly is not a big deal. I think you yourself have found some false info about the reserach and all that bull crap. Anyways spanking would be the last consequence after talking to the child and grounding, if those dont work then ur child does need a spanking. Also its not illegal in any way to spank, its not abbuse like throwing ur child and slapping them with a belt, etc.

Nellerin

March 12th, 2013, 07:58 PM

By whom was the research founded by. Can you answer that. How many people did they research as well. Hitting very hard leads to very bad things, i can agree on that. But hitting like spanking that does hurt but not very badly is not a big deal. I think you yourself have found some false info about the reserach and all that bull crap. Anyways spanking would be the last consequence after talking to the child and grounding, if those dont work then ur child does need a spanking. Also its not illegal in any way to spank, its not abbuse like throwing ur child and slapping them with a belt, etc.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health...mental-illness
http://family.go.com/parenting/pkg-p...-discipline-t/
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/r...9bb30f31a.html
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/dis...hit-your-child
http://www.divinecaroline.com/life-e...en-good-or-bad

All fairly legit studies, all of them saying that even spanking causes emotional issues. Why would you ever choose to attack a child?

Seems sort of cruel, especially since we know what it does to a childs brain in most cases.

ayelove100

March 12th, 2013, 08:03 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/02/health...mental-illness
http://family.go.com/parenting/pkg-p...-discipline-t/
http://www.stltoday.com/lifestyles/r...9bb30f31a.html
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/dis...hit-your-child
http://www.divinecaroline.com/life-e...en-good-or-bad

All fairly legit studies, all of them saying that even spanking causes emotional issues. Why would you ever choose to attack a child?

Seems sort of cruel, especially since we know what it does to a childs brain in most cases.

hmmm i see (ur links dont work for some reasons, its page not found). But can you answer this, what if talking, yelling, asking, and even grounding the child does not work? Woulddn't you spank them then? Remember attacking would be hurting and leaving marks/bruises on the child, which is abbusing the child. Religious wise its not permissible. Spanking hard or attacking would cause emotional issues, but spanking isn't a big deal if the child is not affected by grounding, talking, and taking away things.

Nellerin

March 12th, 2013, 08:14 PM

hmmm i see (ur links dont work for some reasons, its page not found). But can you answer this, what if talking, yelling, asking, and even grounding the child does not work? Woulddn't you spank them then? Remember attacking would be hurting and leaving marks/bruises on the child, which is abbusing the child. Religious wise its not permissible. Spanking hard or attacking would cause emotional issues, but spanking isn't a big deal if the child is not affected by grounding, talking, and taking away things.

Nope because never has a widespread study shown that spanking is more effective. Waste of time and hurts the kid even if it doesn't leave a mark.

Sorry I am just not a cruel person. :lol:

ayelove100

March 12th, 2013, 08:18 PM

Nope because never has a widespread study shown that spanking is more effective. Waste of time and hurts the kid even if it doesn't leave a mark.

Sorry I am just not a cruel person. :lol:

I know what you mean, my parents and me arent cruel either and i was spanked at 8-12 years, but guess what spanking didnt affect me. They tried everything but us kids just never listen. :) Anyways you didn't answer my question about what to do if you tried everything but your child doesn't listen. Its okay though, i get your point but i am just trying to let you get mine too.

Nellerin

March 12th, 2013, 08:33 PM

I know what you mean, my parents and me arent cruel either and i was spanked at 8-12 years, but guess what spanking didnt affect me. They tried everything but us kids just never listen. :) Anyways you didn't answer my question about what to do if you tried everything but your child doesn't listen. Its okay though, i get your point but i am just trying to let you get mine too.

Ya I answered that question, I said that I would not spank my kid even if he/she didn't listen. There are other ways to handle your kid.

Spanking is never the answer, and while it might not affect 100% kids the same way, if it has a 80% chance of hurting a kid, I see no reason to do it.

Wanderer_

March 13th, 2013, 04:15 AM

havingfun

March 16th, 2013, 04:38 PM

The majority of Christians are not hypocrites - it's just some of the ignorant vocal ones that people generalize them by
And the Westboro Baptist Church people are not Christians at all - their actions alone show they aren't by going against Jesus and the Bible

Very well said, The ones that give everybody a bad impression of Christians are where the stereotypes come from. A true Christian does not hate anyone, even if they may disagree about their lifestyle and what they do.

Follow what Jesus taught and you can't go wrong. Even if you are not a Christian and follow his teachings, you will help make the world a better place

Sir Suomi

March 17th, 2013, 05:21 AM

On the matter of spanking/getting the belt, to speak quite frankly, kids today need it. I know when I was growing up, if I back talked, cursed, threw a temper tantrum, etc, I would get my butt smacked so hard I wouldn't be able to sit for a week. So what did I learn? DON'T ACT UP OR YOU GET YOU'LL REGRET IT! :P Today, kids are so disrespectful, they have absolutely no respect for their elders. Now, I know that it may not be the prettiest way of dealing with it, but it teaches kids to not act up.

crepesuzette

March 23rd, 2013, 01:38 AM

Yet how come there has been so much bloodshed linked to religion, the Qu'ran stated a need for a jihad.

And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Look at the crusades, look at the pillaging of Africa in the 18th century by the Christian white minority. Look at the Israel conflict, that is based on religion alone. Look at the traditional 17th century battles Britain vs France, Protestant vs Catholic. You can't just make generalizing statements like your above when they are factually wrong

religion is inherently good, but when somebody perverts it, it becomes a problem. it all depends on people's interpretations. if you don't know something, you should ask instead of jumping to conclusions like oh that's bad. where there's a law, there's a loophole.

Harry Smith

March 23rd, 2013, 04:33 AM

I am serious. Why is this a debate? We have the rights to believe what we want. I believe in no afterlife, that 'heaven' is just a spirit realm unreachable by man, we are all equal, Jesus is Gods Son, that God purposed us to make the earth a giant garden/park like deal whwre we all get along, that the Devil is the reason behind our suffering and ailing, that marriage is sacred, and that one day all the bad will be gone.
Is all of that really so bad?
If you can give me one good reason to stop believing all of that... Screw it. I'm believing what I want.

You have the right to believe what you want, but that doesn't make your point anymore valid does it.

1) Prove to me that the Devil Exists?
2) Marriage isn't sacred
3)Yes that is bad, these are believes which lack any sought of evidence and they rely on the fact that you believe them so they must be right.
4) Another interesting question brought up by my science teacher- if some sort of higher power existed why would he be so interested with something as insignificant as us

Taurus

March 23rd, 2013, 03:39 PM

I think that every person is allowed to believe what they want to believe. My objections to beliefs, particularly religious ones, are when those personal beliefs start to interfere with the lives of others. Beliefs should not interfere with the personal lives of others.

Allbutanillusion

March 30th, 2013, 12:00 PM

SO BRAVE. SO ORIGINAL.

Get over it OP and let people believe what they believe. If they aren't impeding on you, don't impede on them.

I agree, I was thinking that same thing.

sprouse530

March 30th, 2013, 12:07 PM

its just a title put on them, some people dont like church and by being dragged there causes them to rebel just a thought idk

xmojox

March 30th, 2013, 12:59 PM

In response to the titular question, I don't know that I would use the qualifier "most", but, I do agree that many people who consider themselves Christian follow a version of Christianity that, quite simply, isn't. They are guided and instructed in their belief by those who either don't themselves understand, or have an agenda outside of Christianity. They are taught that to question what these people tell them is wrong and against God, so, false notions spread unchecked. What kind of a God would have given us the capacity to question and then chastised us for exercising it?

"If Jesus saves, he'd better save himself from the gory glory-seekers who use his name in death." That's a lyric from a Jethro Tull song. I can't remember the title. Hymn 43 maybe.

But, OP, I believe the reason for un-Christian Christians to be the fact that they are taught wrong versions of their religion.

Stryker125

March 30th, 2013, 01:06 PM

The core tenant of Christianity (and most other religions, as far as I know) is 'be good to other people' coupled with 'don't be a cock.' In those exact words.

randomnessqueen

April 17th, 2013, 05:36 PM

youre talking about the old testament. thats the jewish bible. when jesus gave his gospels, it was to replace that. christians arent supposed to follow any of the jewish laws.

PinkFloyd

April 17th, 2013, 05:45 PM

A perfect example is a group that is so anti-Christian, yet claims they are. It it is the ONLY church I want to burn to the ground. I am talking about the Westboro Baptist Church.

Hunter_Steel

April 19th, 2013, 05:55 AM

Okay, I was bored so I read all seven pages of this cluster f*ck for thread mostly against Christianity and religious people and spanking.

I will stick to the topic, there is another thread for spanking.

Now:

I am from the Dutch Reformed Christian Church. We believe that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one in the same being. Three instances of God, but only one God. The fact that Mary gave birth to Jesus doesn't give her the right to be prayed to, she was just an ordinary mortal chosen to give birth to the vessel that would be God in the form of our savior Jesus Christ.

The belief of the Dutch Reformed Church is that ALL prayer should be directed to God. All baptism should be done with the Holy Spirit, and all belief that Jesus is our one and only true savior and that through him we can get into heaven and have our sins forgiven will be the only time we get into heaven. It also means that we have to constantly reform ourselves every day to make a good impression on people.

NO: Religion DOES NOT PROMOTE WAR. Only the people that pervert it to go to war. Religion is like a Gun. On its own, it cannot do anything, but in the hands of a warlike human, can cause the most horrific things on the planet. Religion is the most powerful weapon on the planet aswell. If used wrongly, can have more devastating effects than a nuclear bomb, if used correctly can promote peace, hope and happiness.

I don't give two furry rats asses for an Atheists opinion of my religion. If you hate my religion, I don't hate you. I pity you. Faith is what has kept me going in times where an atheist would commit suicide. So telling me it promotes false hope is complete bullshit. So tell me, should I just sit here, and accept your opinion when it means I have to giveup the very thing that is keeping me from putting a knife to my throat and ending it all? Sorry, but that is a request far more cruel than having the city of Jericho burned to the ground.

Yes, my opinions are based on my personal feelings alone. I do not need fact to tell me my God is real, but faith alone. And saying that religious people are idiots for believing in an entity that can just end your existence by thinking about it, is complete and total bullshit. I am a straight A student in my class, one of the top students and I have a lot of logic and relativity with me. Just because I dismiss your science doesn't make me an idiot. It just means I see the bigger picture that science cannot see.

Also: I do believe that some science is wrong, infact any science that doesn't have some form of religion in it doesn't make sense. I've seen many instances of science where it just left me confused. Many times have there been more questions raised by science that religion answers. So now I ask. Why can't there be a balance?

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."
-Elbert Einstein

"My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind."
-Elbert Einstein

One of the world's greatest scientists found a balance between Religion and Science. So the important thing to ask is:
"Why can't we?"

If someone as intelligent as Einstein was a religious person, and the fact that you said that people are idiots for believing in God, does that mean your are effectively calling one of our greatest minds an idiot too?

Show me where that logic lies.

~Hunter