Arent we all Agnostic Fundamentalists?

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Agnostic Fundamentalists are people who dont know whether there is a higher power or not. Arent we all agnostic fundamentalists then? I mean, all we can really do is guess, speculate, or assume. No-one really knows... What are your opinions on this?

[Sapphire]

By being religious (ie. Catholic) you are saying that you believe in God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit. That you believe God is up there looking down on us and looking after us. So I must say that I disagree with you here. A practicing Christian who goes to church every Sunday and believes the Bible (no matter how literally or abstractly) cannot be agnostic. It is a contradiction in terminology.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

But just because they believe it, doesnt mean they KNOW it, there is a difference.

[Maverick]

Exactly, I agree with Carole. A lot people truly believe that there is a God and some do believe that there isn't one, and there is no doubt in their mind. So to answer your question, no.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Believe! Just becausee you BELIEVE something, doesnt make it real. I am talking about actually KNOWING not BELIEVING. Sorry bout the caps, I wanted to make my point veryyy clear:P

[Maverick]

Believe! Just becausee you BELIEVE something, doesnt make it real. I am talking about actually KNOWING not BELIEVING. Sorry bout the caps, I wanted to make my point veryyy clear:P
People believe that they do know. They believe that it is the truth. It is very real to them. You aren't religious so you can't understand. Atheists are wrong and they are right. They can't comprehend the thought of doubting God because that is their truth.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Alright then, I guess I understand you, but I still say we are all agnostic fundamentalist:P

[Sapphire]

When talking about religion or religious attitudes being able to prove something as a true matter of fact is inconsequential. It is the complete belief in that greater power that makes them Christian, Muslim, Sikh etc. Agnostics are open to the idea but don't have the belief in a set God(s) and as such the thought of being both Agnostic and Christian is not possible.

[Underground_Network]

I want to agree with you Yuri, but I cannot.. There are people who have extremely strong beliefs, and you could never convince them that there is not a higher power, thus in their minds, they are not unsure as to whether or not there is a higher power, they know there is a higher power. Now they don't know in the sense that they have it proven, but they know in the sense that they strongly believe in it and have no doubts.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

yes yes yes, I understand

[byee]

We can always count on Layne to ask probing, provocative questions, demonstrating how sharp he really is! Just what we'd expect from one who enjoys fava beans with his liver.

I think the larger question here is how people, actually determine what their beliefs are. Most inherit their parents religion without giving it a whole lot of thought. Think about it. Why do you believe what you do? Probably because 'you always have' or 'because my family does'.

I think Layne is questioning that process, and it's a highly intelligent question. Because if we actually get beyond the '"because I've always been that way" rationale, none of us really DO know for sure about matters of faith or spirituality, and therefore, the only accpetable answer to his q is agnosticism.

Bravo, Layne. You get an A+!

[Sapphire]

No, that is not so. Absolute faith in a religion, God, spirituality (or the lack of) is just that. An absolute belief. With absolute faith there is no space for uncertainty. If there is no space for uncertainty within an individuals faith then they cannot be an agnostic.

[Underground_Network]

We can always count on Layne to ask probing, provocative questions, demonstrating how sharp he really is! Just what we'd expect from one who enjoys fava beans with his liver.

I think the larger question here is how people, actually determine what their beliefs are. Most inherit their parents religion without giving it a whole lot of thought. Think about it. Why do you believe what you do? Probably because 'you always have' or 'because my family does'.

I think Layne is questioning that process, and it's a highly intelligent question. Because if we actually get beyond the '"because I've always been that way" rationale, none of us really DO know for sure about matters of faith or spirituality, and therefore, the only accpetable answer to his q is agnosticism.

Bravo, Layne. You get an A+!

90% of my friends, and I myself included, believe in religions other than what we were brought up to believe, so yeah, thats not a great argument. :/

[Sapphire]

And just to add another little something. A number of my friends come from atheist families but found religion on their own and have stronger beliefs than anyone I have met from religious households.

[byee]

I'm not necessarily talking about us here, I think we're the exceptions. it's clear we're open minded, free thinkers who question things and arrive at our own conclusions regardless of the status quo. But everyone else..........?

[Maverick]

I'm not necessarily talking about us here, I think we're the exceptions. it's clear we're open minded, free thinkers who question things and arrive at our own conclusions regardless of the status quo. But everyone else..........?
'Everyone' is such a loose term and generalization so to say that makes you sound very ignorant. Instead of blowing off holes to your argument and calling them 'exceptions,' maybe its a better idea to rethink your thoughts as they aren't very good explanations. People are open minded more than you think. You can't automatically assume that just because someone is religious doesn't mean they aren't open minded.

[LateForTheSky]

Agnostic Fundamentalists are people who dont know whether there is a higher power or not. Arent we all agnostic fundamentalists then? I mean, all we can really do is guess, speculate, or assume. No-one really knows... What are your opinions on this?

I think you are right, no one really knows if there is something or indeed someone big and power towering over us. So in a way we all are agnostic but agnostics dont believe in anything inparticular. But as for actual fact we all have a bit of agnostic in us. I dont really know all i know is i believe there is no god. But that dosnt make anything any different.

[Maverick]

I think you are right, no one really knows if there is something or indeed someone big and power towering over us. So in a way we all are agnostic but agnostics dont believe in anything inparticular. But as for actual fact we all have a bit of agnostic in us. I dont really know all i know is i believe there is no god. But that dosnt make anything any different.
How can you claim to be agnostic when you just concluded that there isn't a God? You are not agnostic.

That's like saying if Christianity was 100% truth then we're all Christians. That is not the case. One cannot be agnostic if they believe and know to be true (in their eyes) that God is real. They are just as right as you are.

It is hard to understand the opposite point of view if you are not religious. To religious God is real as it gets.

[Underground_Network]

If you don't believe in God, you are atheist, not agnostic. Anyways, Jackson, this has been stated several times throughout this thread.. there is a difference between knowing there is a higher power and knowing there is a higher power. Now from a scientific point of view, we don't know there is a higher power, but still, to someone who is extremely religious, or even someone who isn't exactly pious, but still takes religion rather seriously, they know there is a higher power, in their minds, no matter what you say or do, there is a higher power, thus, they know there is a higher power.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

But just because in there minds, they KNOW it to be true, doesnt mean It is true in the real world. For example, i may KNOW that there is a pink monster flying around that created everything, but in reality, It is not so.

[Maverick]

But just because in there minds, they KNOW it to be true, doesnt mean It is true in the real world. For example, i may KNOW that there is a pink monster flying around that created everything, but in reality, It is not so.
Of course that's true, but that doesn't make them agnostic.

[TakenAway--x]

Even if I don't know what it is, I know there has to be something out there that is greater than we are. Life did not just come out of nowhere.

I've never understood atheism. I have tried, but it is impossible to believe that nothing actually exists and that this is all one big optical illusion.

Agnosticism is one of the most reasonable beliefs in the universe.

[Camazotz]

Yes, we dont KNOW for sure, but we believe we do know. I know there is because I beleive that much. I have that much faith. Whether other people do or do not is none of my business.