Is anyone here against gay marriage?

[xmojox]

I believe a marriage is between a man and woman. I believe a man to lust after another man with emotions is unnatural. Note: I'm not speaking about hormones here, we all understand that can alter the way a teen sees things. I'm speaking about a man, not a Teen or kid.

I am a Christian. I do understand that people will not agree with what I believe because it is not what they want. But, what I don't seem to get is why it matters to them what I believe. I don't hate gays. I've never tried to kill one nor even cursed one. Instead I pray for them, try to give hope for those who are trying to leave it.

I know it is wrong and unnatural to be gay. And please, lol don't pull out the slaves, shrimp and other crazy comments about the Bible trying to down what it says. I know what it says otherwise I wouldn't live by it. I don't get stuck in the old testament I read the new as well. What speaks on matters of the old. But also, if u were to attempt to prove the Bible wrong, does that mean that the whole Bible is wrong?

Anyways haha, back to what was originally asked. I don't agree with gay marriage. Simply put.

If you believe that God is perfect and incapable of making mistakes, then you must accept homosexuality as a natural orientation, or else it wouldn't exist, as God is the source of everything in creation.

[Apollo.]

I'm guessing your not a fan of the Bible.. Just a guess. Let's say it the way u should have. You believe gay is not unnatural, or to put it simple, you believe it is natural. Same way I said I believe it is not. K?

What is the definition of Faith?

People who hate religion do not hate because of people like me, seeing you don't know me how can you judge me? Calling people like me prejudice, and judgemental would make u a big Hippocratic.

*hypocrite I don't usually do that but I could let it go.

No not "K" at all, prove its not natural! I'm living proof that it is.

I can judge you because you have just posted something horribly offensive, prejudiced and bigoted. Yes at least one person hates religion because of people like you, that is me
Do you feel your church has the right to tell me I cannot marry my boyfriend?

[chetbonare]

Did God create sin? No of course not. Hence, Sin is the disobedience of Gods word, Yes? Same way darkness it only where light is not. Because something exist does not mean it is made by God. Catching my drift? God gave man a freewill when he Gave him a choice. When God put the tree with the forbidden fruit on it, he didn't create sin, he created a freewill... A choice. If he did not do that, he would have been forcing man to live without a choice.

[Apollo.]

Did God create sin? No of course not. Hence, Sin is the disobedience of Gods word, Yes? Same way darkness it only where light is not. Because something exist does not mean it is made by God. Catching my drift? God gave man a freewill when he Gave him a choice. When God put the tree with the forbidden fruit on it, he didn't create sin, he created a freewill... A choice. If he did not do that, he would have been forcing man to live without a choice.

Being gay is NOT a choice, I was born gay. Please stop with the bible crap about forbidden fruit and what not, I'd rather teabag the pope and smoke crack with satan than read anymore of that. If your going to debate use fact not fiction.

[chetbonare]

*hypocrite I don't usually do that but I could let it go.

No not "K" at all, prove its not natural! I'm living proof that it is.

I can judge you because you have just posted something horribly offensive, prejudiced and bigoted. Yes at least one person hates religion because of people like you, that is me
Do you feel your church has the right to tell me I cannot marry my boyfriend?

Sorry lol, I'm on a tablet and its hard to type and all. Haha

I see where you are coming from. And really, I never intended to offend you, I said it simply that I don't believe it is natural. And no, that doesn't give you the right to judge someone because its offensive. Same way you dont want me to "judge you"

Why do you question what I believe and attempt to put me on the defense when all I was doing was stating my belief. I can do that on the internet and in America. That is also why the "church" can speak what the Bible says, its Freedom of speech. And yes, I know you can trpurn that around and also say freedom for you as well. And I'm not trying to question what u are, nor did I ever do that. Lol

Being gay is NOT a choice, I was born gay. Please stop with the bible crap about forbidden fruit and what not, I'd rather teabag the pope and smoke crack with satan than read anymore of that. If your going to debate use fact not fiction.

That was for the other guys post with my quote. Sorry.

And you can not state that it is fiction. You have to present facts against every point in the Bible the pronounce it "fiction" otherwise, your judgment is invalid.

And now to end my chatting in this topic..
I believe what I believe. If you don't want me to judge you, dont judge me. You can not pronounce what I believe fake unless you prove everything I believe wrong. If you don't even know what all I believe, then you can not prove me fake, and can not judge me. :)

I do not intend to make a scene nor cause ill feelings.

Bye now, real late here.

Night everyone :) c ya Apollo

Double Post Merged ~Adam

[Apollo.]

That was for the other guys post with my quote. Sorry.

And you can not state that it is fiction. You have to present facts against every point in the Bible the pronounce it "fiction" otherwise, your judgment is invalid.

Oh yes the magic man growing magic fruit on magic trees in magic gardens for magically created people is very believable, you know what I don't give a fuck anymore, I'm sick of vt and sick of half the bastards on it. Your clearly going to stay bigoted so just do that. I'm tired of debating with people like you it's a total waste of time. If your foolish enough to believe half the shit in the bible I feel bad for you more than anything, all I'm going to say now is I hope to fuck one day you snap out of your delusion and see what you are saying is wrong and offensive. I apologise because this has been building for the past few weeks and you are just the straw that broke the camels back so to speak.

[Sir Suomi]

So you hate gays but don't have the balls to admit it?

When the hell did I say I hated gays? Jesus, I said I didn't like it. It's about the same annoyance to me as getting something I didn't want on a burger. I don't really like having it there, but I'm not gonna just throw it away. No, I'll just eat my damn burger.

Austin, I have a hypothetical for you. What if your best-friend were to tell you tomorrow that he's figured out that he's gay?

I wouldn't really like it, but, like I've stated, I wouldn't hate on him. I just wouldn't agree with it.

[chetbonare]

Burgers mmmmm I could go for a BK burger right about now. Lol sorry for being off topic.
Or maybe a milkshake :D

[xmojox]

I wouldn't really like it, but, like I've stated, I wouldn't hate on him. I just wouldn't agree with it.

I was just curious, thanks.

[PinkFloyd]

I am not against it at all.

[Sugaree]

Because I don't preach hate, I dont discriminate against people and my views aren't old fashioned and offensive to people!

Good GOD this thread is full of gold. You liberals constantly preach - yes, PREACH - tolerance and equality, yet you are more than content to oppress your opposition. So you can be offended by someone's contradicting view on a subject, yet they can't be offended by YOUR opinion? This isn't a one way street, and you're being a hypocrite by saying you aren't preaching anything discriminatory when, in fact, you are.

[CharlieHorse]

Why would I be against gay marriage?
It does no harm.
I actually like seeing gay couples. They're cute :)

[Apollo.]

Good GOD this thread is full of gold. You liberals constantly preach - yes, PREACH - tolerance and equality, yet you are more than content to oppress your opposition. So you can be offended by someone's contradicting view on a subject, yet they can't be offended by YOUR opinion? This isn't a one way street, and you're being a hypocrite by saying you aren't preaching anything discriminatory when, in fact, you are.

The only reason I am against the church is because they try and get involved where they are not wanted, they preach hate towards homosexuals and are a narrow minded bunch. When the church stop trying to affect my life then they can believe whatever fucking stories they want and I will have no problem.

With things like http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/24/boris-johnson-anti-gay-ads?mobile-redirect=false that in the news here then why should the church be allowed to continue its campaign. When that is the publicity the church receives then I think they would disgust most decent people!

When the hell did I say I hated gays? Jesus, I said I didn't like it. It's about the same annoyance to me as getting something I didn't want on a burger. I don't really like having it there, but I'm not gonna just throw it away. No, I'll just eat my damn burger.



I wouldn't really like it, but, like I've stated, I wouldn't hate on him. I just wouldn't agree with it.

Your point about "screaming I hate you in someone's face" implied you hate gays. Also thanks for your rep about your foot in my ass talk about a keyboard gangster hahahaha!


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

[Emerald Dream]

Please keep this thread on-topic, and refrain from any bashing or personal attacks.

[Aajj333]

I'm for it

[Sir Suomi]

Your point about "screaming I hate you in someone's face" implied you hate gays. Also thanks for your rep about your foot in my ass talk about a keyboard gangster hahahaha!


-merged double post. -Emerald Dream

Alright, I'm sorry about about the rep thing yesterday. I was very frustrated, and was having one of my depressed/Pissed off as hell days, so I'm sorry for that.

When I was using the example of "Screaming in your face", I was talking about somebody hating their teacher. I never once said I hated gays. I don't hate Gays, I just don't Like the idea of homosexuality. But like I've said, I won't try and change your mind, tell you that your going to hell, etc. I'm just not going to agree with what you think. I think I'm allowed that right, am I correct?

[Prodigy17]

Being gay is NOT a choice, I was born gay.

Is that true of everyone who is gay?

Not trying to make a point, just asking a straight question.

[randomnessqueen]

nothing conflicting. i disagree with tons of beliefs, but i never hate on anything.
im supportive of people following their own religious creeds, and if that is against homosexuality, then who am i to alter it.
but once you turn disagreement into pointless hate then you nolonger have my support, and are clearly wrong.

[Cygnus]

Maybe this might clear up a few things. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jrngYNGNeE)

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Maybe this might clear up a few things. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jrngYNGNeE)

Not at all.
Its actually even worse than the religious argument.

[Sugaree]

Maybe this might clear up a few things. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jrngYNGNeE)

>using a satire video to make a point

:rolleyes:

[RyGar]

Weather or not the government want to admit it but this country was founded upon Christianity ( In God we trust & Under God ) if you want the rights then go to Canada. If you don't like the US whats keeping you here?

But yes the government has become so overly corrupted you would never have guessed that all the founding fathers were Christian.

I disagree, first off the first successful colony was Jamestown, a colony founded for economic prosperity, financed by the Dutch east India tea company. Secondly,in god we trust does not necessarily mean Christianity, to name a few, Jews and Muslims both have a monotheistic religion, the argument can be made that both trust in god. Third, the under god line in the pledge of allegiance which is what I believe to be what you are referring to was added by DDEisenhower during his presidency, and again does not connote Christianity.

Also the verse of the Torah/old testament you refer to is Leviticus 18:1 about line 22, and it says ,"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination". Now the next verse, Leviticus 19 says, "*You shall not render an unjust judgement; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great: with justice you shall judge your neighbour. You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people". Now couple these statements with Genesis 1 which says, "*Then God said, ‘Let us make humankind in our image, according to our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the wild animals of the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.’ " put this together and it comes out to be somewhere along these lines, man is superior to all living things except other men. It is an abomination to lie with a man like one lies with a woman because the act of doing so is dominating, thus this goes against the literal first verse. However, The passage which follows tells us, other humans not to judge, we are equal not superior and cannot pass judgement. We must leave judging to god, a higher power. There is no text in the old testament or Torah which defines marriage, yet these are the words we are told came directly from god. Perhaps god does not define marriage because he does not need to. To love to hold to cherish until final days hour minutes, this is marriage, to judge to define to punish is the role of god. Thus who are we to say homosexuals cannot marry, for they are our equal, if god considered their marriage a sin he/ she would have defined it as one. God only considers placing ones self as above or below another human as a sin. That is the logical conclusion of what we are told directly. If you disagree, go ahead and state so, but religiously, this is how I think we are meant to be guided, pointed, however you want to call it. Sorry for the long read.

[Taurus]

When homosexuality is found in over 450 species around the globe, and homophobia is found in only one, you gotta wonder which one is unnatural.
Fun fact: Male bats have the highest rate of homosexuality found in any species in the world.

[Blueeyes]

*sigh* as I'm a Christian myself, lets not being religion into this.

I'm against gay marriage, not because my religion is against it.. but I personally, feel free to disagree, I think it's wrong.

Sure... lots of people go through the 'curious & experimental' phase growing up... but marriage is a little far IMHO.

[Jess]

*sigh* as I'm a Christian myself, lets not being religion into this.

I'm against gay marriage, not because my religion is against it.. but I personally, feel free to disagree, I think it's wrong.

Sure... lots of people go through the 'curious & experimental' phase growing up... but marriage is a little far IMHO.

Tell me, why do you care what gender another adult marries? How does it hurt you?

[Taurus]

*sigh* as I'm a Christian myself, lets not being religion into this.

I'm against gay marriage, not because my religion is against it.. but I personally, feel free to disagree, I think it's wrong.

Sure... lots of people go through the 'curious & experimental' phase growing up... but marriage is a little far IMHO.


Please, tell us more about when you chose to be straight.


edit: Also, imagine how horrible your words would sound if you were talking about interracial marriage.

Anyone can believe whatever the hell they want. Just don't try to legislate your bigotry or interfere with the progression of society.

Double Post Merged~ Red Velvet

[Blueeyes]

Please, tell us more about when you chose to be straight.


edit: Also, imagine how horrible your words would sound if you were talking about interracial marriage.

I chose to be straight, or rather was born straight. I want to be married someday and have a family with kids... kids who are of my genetics.

Tell me, why do you care what gender another adult marries? How does it hurt you?

What if the entire population was gay? What would be the population... 0. How do you EXPECT the society to 'progress' if the population is nothing. If gay marriage is 'right' how come everyone isn't gay? Why isn't the entire population gay?

Again, this is MY PERSONAL OPINION. I did not say you had to disagree with me, feel free to do so, I don't care. The tread asked if anyone is against gay marriage, therefore I post a reply with MY OPINION on gay marriage. I'm not trying to flame anyone of their beliefs, If I see a gay relationship... I don't tell them in their face that is wrong, they can do whatever the hell they want, as a 'dateing' couple. But to be married? I don't know.

[Sugaree]

What if the entire population was gay? What would be the population... 0. How do you EXPECT the society to 'progress' if the population is nothing. If gay marriage is 'right' how come everyone isn't gay? Why isn't the entire population gay?

Again, this is MY PERSONAL OPINION. I did not say you had to disagree with me, feel free to do so, I don't care. The tread asked if anyone is against gay marriage, therefore I post a reply with MY OPINION on gay marriage. I'm not trying to flame anyone of their beliefs, If I see a gay relationship... I don't tell them in their face that is wrong, they can do whatever the hell they want, as a 'dateing' couple. But to be married? I don't know.

Your population argument is invalid. This has been debunked so many times that I'm not going to bother trying to argue against it. It's not that being gay is right or wrong, but natural. Lions, for example, have homosexual tendencies; but have they suffered because of it? No, because they're being hunted. This is true for many different species of animals that share in homosexual relations with each other, yet their social structures aren't being torn asunder.

The reason everyone isn't gay is simple: genetics. It is statistically proven that if you come from a family of boys, and just so happen to be the youngest, your chances of being gay are much higher than if you were the oldest. If there's a history of homosexuality in your family, again, you have a genetically induced chance of being homosexual yourself because of it. Genetics can never be right or wrong, only natural. So by saying homosexuality is "wrong" is a flawed argument.

Let me ask you something - and I'll state now that I'm not trying to flame or bash you in any way - you believe in heterosexual marriage, correct? By that logic, you must believe that if a man loves a woman or vice-versa, they should be allowed to be married, right? Now let's reverse it. Let's say a man loves another man, in the way he might love a woman; they want to get get married in order to affirm their love as a legal union. But they can't because of laws only recognizing marriage between a man and a woman.

What's wrong with the above picture? If two couples love each other, why can one be married and one not be married? You can't have it both ways. If marriage is about love, why do we not recognize the love between two members of the same sex? If it is wrong to recognize that two men or two women love each other, then why is marriage still in existence? Marriage is about that recognition of love and also the couple affirming that love in a legally binding action. So if it is wrong to recognize THIS love, why do you only recognize the opposite when it comes to marriage?

[Taurus]

I chose to be straight, or rather was born straight. I want to be married someday and have a family with kids... kids who are of my genetics.

What if the entire population was gay? What would be the population... 0. How do you EXPECT the society to 'progress' if the population is nothing. If gay marriage is 'right' how come everyone isn't gay? Why isn't the entire population gay?


LGBTQ people were born LGBTQ. They want to be able to marry and have a family.
Homosexuality is found in over 450 species around the world. Homophobia and bigotry are found in only one species.
Your second paragraph makes absolutely no sense.
Making same-sex marriage legal doesn't turn people LGBTQ.

[Blueeyes]

You both have your opinions, that's perfectly fine. No need to drill me with all this nonsense. If you believe in gay marriage, good for you. The thread just simply asked who was against gay marriage. Let's just end this before it goes any further.

[Stronk Serb]

I would make gays LEGALLY marriable, but not in a religious way ( in a church with the priest saying what he has). A religion can choose it's customs and not have them imposed by a government.

[Mabutati]

^^^ Absolutely. And thats all gays want is to be able to be "legally" married and have both parents be the legal guardian of say adopted children. Gays only want the same rights as everyone else and there is no reason they shouldn't be able to. America has a separation of church and state and the only thing holding pro-gay legislation back is religious beliefs.... contradictory.

[Strawberry_Essence]

I am completely fine with gay marriage. If anything I strongly support it :)

[xmojox]

You both have your opinions, that's perfectly fine. No need to drill me with all this nonsense. If you believe in gay marriage, good for you. The thread just simply asked who was against gay marriage. Let's just end this before it goes any further.

All this nonsense affects a significant number of United States citizens, so it's a necessary discussion to have. You say your opinion isn't based upon your religious views, yet you don't want this go any farther. If your opposition is because you're fearful that everyone would become homosexual and our species would die out, I ask you this: would you, yourself, become homosexual simply because it became legal for homosexuals to be married? If your answer is "no", I then ask, do you consider yourself to be unique in that regard? If your answer is "no", then what is problem with extending equal rights to all?

And that's really all that these folks want: equal protection under the law. A Constitutional Right.

[Blueeyes]

All this nonsense affects a significant number of United States citizens, so it's a necessary discussion to have. You say your opinion isn't based upon your religious views, yet you don't want this go any farther. If your opposition is because you're fearful that everyone would become homosexual and our species would die out, I ask you this: would you, yourself, become homosexual simply because it became legal for homosexuals to be married? If your answer is "no", I then ask, do you consider yourself to be unique in that regard? If your answer is "no", then what is problem with extending equal rights to all?

And that's really all that these folks want: equal protection under the law. A Constitutional Right.


Ok I think you are mis-reading me. The nonsense I meant, was just the arguing that has been happening. I do not mean for this large argument. I simply stated my opinion. I'm not trying to shut any homosexuals/gays/bi people down or anything. I just stated my opinion. I would like to apologize to anyone who mis-read me, and thinks I may be insulting them in some way.

[xmojox]

Ok I think you are mis-reading me. The nonsense I meant, was just the arguing that has been happening. I do not mean for this large argument. I simply stated my opinion. I'm not trying to shut any homosexuals/gays/bi people down or anything. I just stated my opinion. I would like to apologize to anyone who mis-read me, and thinks I may be insulting them in some way.

The argument is because this is a debate forum :)

I sincerely wish that you would re-evaluate your opinions on equal rights. You never know when someone somewhere might decide that people with people with blue eyes aren't entitled to the same rights as everyone else....

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I want to clear up a few things I've noticed here. When it comes to the Bible, the Old Testament established the Law of Moses which had many rules for the Hebrews to follow. In the New Testament, Jesus the Christ came to save the Jews from their own mistakes. He said that the Law of Moses has been fulfilled and then He and his apostles gave a revised law. In the Law of Moses, homosexuality was forbidden. In the revised law, homosexuality is still forbidden (Romans chapter 1). I'm sorry if that offends certain people but for those of you who believe in the Bible, there is the law you follow.

I think we need to stop thinking of marriage as a right. Some people seem to think that love is the only necessary component to make a marriage. That is false. If all you need is love then two little children could get married, a mother and son could get married, even a boy and his dog could get married. Marriage isn't just love. Marriage is two people committing to protecting, supporting, caring, defending, and working for one another. I will use this example to better make my point. If two high school students love each other and decide they want to get married, is it a good idea? No because they are still both teenagers in school and may not have jobs. Marriage shouldn't be considered a right because then it can be abused. It should be thought of more as a privilege for two people to utilize when they are both physically, emotionally, and mentally able. Marriage is more than just love. Marriage is two people becoming a team.

Sorry if none of this made sense. It's easier to think and say it then it is to type it. Now to answer the question of this post. I personally don't support gay marriage. I don't like homosexuality. But that doesn't mean I'm in any place to tell others what they can and cannot do. If a gay couple meets the above criteria of what a marriage should be, then I see no reason for them to not be allowed to be legally married. Holy Matrimony and eternal sealing are different matters that I won't get into now, but legal marriage as far as I'm concerned is OK for gays.

[xmojox]

I want to clear up a few things I've noticed here. When it comes to the Bible, the Old Testament established the Law of Moses which had many rules for the Hebrews to follow. In the New Testament, Jesus the Christ came to save the Jews from their own mistakes. He said that the Law of Moses has been fulfilled and then He and his apostles gave a revised law. In the Law of Moses, homosexuality was forbidden. In the revised law, homosexuality is still forbidden (Romans chapter 1). I'm sorry if that offends certain people but for those of you who believe in the Bible, there is the law you follow.

I think we need to stop thinking of marriage as a right. Some people seem to think that love is the only necessary component to make a marriage. That is false. If all you need is love then two little children could get married, a mother and son could get married, even a boy and his dog could get married. Marriage isn't just love. Marriage is two people committing to protecting, supporting, caring, defending, and working for one another. I will use this example to better make my point. If two high school students love each other and decide they want to get married, is it a good idea? No because they are still both teenagers in school and may not have jobs. Marriage shouldn't be considered a right because then it can be abused. It should be thought of more as a privilege for two people to utilize when they are both physically, emotionally, and mentally able. Marriage is more than just love. Marriage is two people becoming a team.

Sorry if none of this made sense. It's easier to think and say it then it is to type it. Now to answer the question of this post. I personally don't support gay marriage. I don't like homosexuality. But that doesn't mean I'm in any place to tell others what they can and cannot do. If a gay couple meets the above criteria of what a marriage should be, then I see no reason for them to not be allowed to be legally married. Holy Matrimony and eternal sealing are different matters that I won't get into now, but legal marriage as far as I'm concerned is OK for gays.

Marriage is a right, regardless of whether you want it to be or not. The Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) has said so several times.

All these folks are asking for is equal rights. In America, the government can't dictate belief or action to religious institutions. Some are willing to perform weddings for same-sex couples and other's aren't. So be it. Nobody is trying to force churches to do anything they don't want to.

Today, SCOTUS is hearing arguments concerning California's Proposition 8, and, tomorrow concerning DOMA, the Federal Defense of Marriage Act. I believe that this court will want it's legacy to be that of the court that decided the Brown v. Board of Education of the gay rights movement, and, after June when the court is likely to release it's decision, all this debate will be moot and many people will have hurt feelings.

[Hunter_Steel]

Whether or not it is for equal rights or what ever.

Marriage is NOT a right. Doesn't matter what the supreme court of America thinks. I am not an American Citizen, so they do not rule over me, and I am entitled to my OWN opinion.

I say no to gay marriage.

Why?

I'll say why.

Humans, or any creature made male or female is made male and female. Why? Reproduction to keep the population going and preventing it from going out. Men are not made to carry children, we do not have wombs. All we have is a penis, and 2 balls that hang out to produce children with. Women have wombs, they are meant to carry children. So two guys wanting to get married is breaking the natural order of nature, and disrupting the circle of life.

This is why I am against gay marriage. I may not be all for gay people. Its not normal to me. Homosexuality may be found in 450 species in the world, but homophobia has been known to exist with chimpanzies. I saw it myself, a whole tribe of chimps killed two homosexual chimps simply for being that. Since we are humans, we are more civilized. I would definitely NOT go up to a gay couple and tell them they're coming together is wrong. I'll just leave them be.

Being entitled to my own opinion is what makes me human. I am free to make my own choices, and being gay, is not one of them. This is not my religious view, this is my personal sight on it. If my girlfriend likes gay guys, I don't mind. She's not so big on lesbians herself, and I am not so big on gay guys. But she likes gay guys, and I don't mind lesbians. Atleast they don't look at me like they want to go out with me. Getting that look from a guy is just *shudders*.

Thats my view. If you don't like me for it, I don't care. If you hate me for it, I seriously don't care. We're entitled to our opinions, and thats how it should stay.

~Hunter

[Harry Smith]

Hang on Harry. Two obvious points you're missing
1/ im not gay so obviously have nothing to gain from gay marriage
2/ im not religious so have nothing to lose
As i said earlier "no dog in the fight." Thus my opinion is neutral - neither for or against.

That said I can appreciate why those of a religious persuasion would oppose - hardly fair to force them to abandon what they believe in just because you say so.

WHAT IF A FAMILY MEMBER CAME OUT AS GAY AND WANTED TO MARRY? Look at the Rob Portman affect? Just because someone holds a belief doesn't make it valid. And when they express that belief by claiming that homosexuality can be cured that when I and others take it personally.

You've made homosexual comments in the past, your ignore people, you ignore racism or sexism. Be careful what you say

[Sugaree]

WHAT IF A FAMILY MEMBER CAME OUT AS GAY AND WANTED TO MARRY? Look at the Rob Portman affect? Just because someone holds a belief doesn't make it valid. And when they express that belief by claiming that homosexuality can be cured that when I and others take it personally.

You've made homosexual comments in the past, your ignore people, you ignore racism or sexism. Be careful what you say

Dude, calm the hell down. He just said his opinion is neutral because he has no stake in the debate. If he's neutral, he's not hurting anybody. Get off his case.

[Harry Smith]

Dude, calm the hell down. He just said his opinion is neutral because he has no stake in the debate. If he's neutral, he's not hurting anybody. Get off his case.

I was merely using capitals to enlarge my point due to the fact that in previous debates he tends to ignore large chunks of people's responses.

[Jess]

Whether or not it is for equal rights or what ever.

Marriage is NOT a right. Doesn't matter what the supreme court of America thinks. I am not an American Citizen, so they do not rule over me, and I am entitled to my OWN opinion.

I say no to gay marriage.

Why?

I'll say why.

Humans, or any creature made male or female is made male and female. Why? Reproduction to keep the population going and preventing it from going out. Men are not made to carry children, we do not have wombs. All we have is a penis, and 2 balls that hang out to produce children with. Women have wombs, they are meant to carry children. So two guys wanting to get married is breaking the natural order of nature, and disrupting the circle of life.

This is why I am against gay marriage. I may not be all for gay people. Its not normal to me. Homosexuality may be found in 450 species in the world, but homophobia has been known to exist with chimpanzies. I saw it myself, a whole tribe of chimps killed two homosexual chimps simply for being that. Since we are humans, we are more civilized. I would definitely NOT go up to a gay couple and tell them they're coming together is wrong. I'll just leave them be.

Being entitled to my own opinion is what makes me human. I am free to make my own choices, and being gay, is not one of them. This is not my religious view, this is my personal sight on it. If my girlfriend likes gay guys, I don't mind. She's not so big on lesbians herself, and I am not so big on gay guys. But she likes gay guys, and I don't mind lesbians. Atleast they don't look at me like they want to go out with me. Getting that look from a guy is just *shudders*.

Thats my view. If you don't like me for it, I don't care. If you hate me for it, I seriously don't care. We're entitled to our opinions, and thats how it should stay.

~Hunter

Just want to point out that marriage doesn't have to end up with children. What about couples who can't have children, or don't want any? I might want to get married some day (though chances of that seem zero >_>) but I never want children (I have a fear of pregnancy)

They're like two men wanting to get married, disrupting the "cycle of life".

Just saying. I respect your opinion.

[Lights]

Being entitled to my own opinion is what makes me human. I am free to make my own choices, and being gay, is not one of them. This is not my religious view, this is my personal sight on it. If my girlfriend likes gay guys, I don't mind. She's not so big on lesbians herself, and I am not so big on gay guys. But she likes gay guys, and I don't mind lesbians. Atleast they don't look at me like they want to go out with me. Getting that look from a guy is just *shudders*.

It's all good and well to have your own opinion, which you've taken the liberty to preach several times within one post, but it's another thing altogether when you start being offensive.
The fact you seem to think being gay is a choice is in itself a cause for concern surrounding your understanding of sexuality - but do you realise how homophobic you are coming across? I don't think you appreciate how insulting your last two sentences are - in particular that 'shudder'. I'm finding myself cringing because you have been so arrogant as to presume that any guy has looked at you in a way that suggests they 'want to go out with you'. The fact that you shudder at the thought of a male liking you is a blatant indication that you hold homophobic views and are at least somewhat scared by thought of two males being in love. Do you think that you are better than homosexuals or are higher in the 'pecking order' than they are?

As I can see you are a Christian, I would like to reference you two Biblical morals I think are particularly central to Christianity and prohibit negative treatment of others:


Matthew 7:1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
Matthew 7:12: So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

[Prodigy17]

The fact that you shudder at the thought of a male liking you is a blatant indication that you hold homophobic views

Do you think girls sometimes "shudder" at the thought of guys liking them?

[Hunter_Steel]

Whether you hold me as offensive or not is your choice. I won't sugar coat my words. Not now, not ever. I am not afraid of them either. I neither like nor dislike them. But think about it.

Straight guy trying to pickup a girl. A Gay guy looks at him and gives him the same look he is giving the girl he is trying to pickup. Won't he also think it strange or shudder at the thought of another guy wanting to be in a relationship with him?

Its not normal. And the fact that you think I see myself higher than the pecking order is offensive in its own right. I don't think I am better than anyone on this planet. I've heard all this about being gay as genetic. To me, its a choice. Like, tomorrow I could decide I was bisexual or I was homosexual. I won't, but its like that. I don't see how genetics has anything to do with being gay or not. So what if you like guys now. Just don't expect me to not mind another guy wanting to go out with me. Won't happen in heaven or hell.

I may also be Christian. BUT you cannot be all nicey nicey to everyone. Those lines mean treat other as you would like to be treated, and don't judge others. BUT you can draw the line somewhere. Don't get me wrong. But if I don't like getting a look that I'd give a girl I like, I don't like it. My choice, my way of life.

And like I said in the above, I don't care what you think of me. My life, my choices.

~Hunter

[Harry Smith]

Whether you hold me as offensive or not is your choice. I won't sugar coat my words. Not now, not ever. I am not afraid of them either. I neither like nor dislike them. But think about it.

Straight guy trying to pickup a girl. A Gay guy looks at him and gives him the same look he is giving the girl he is trying to pickup. Won't he also think it strange or shudder at the thought of another guy wanting to be in a relationship with him?

Its not normal. And the fact that you think I see myself higher than the pecking order is offensive in its own right. I don't think I am better than anyone on this planet. I've heard all this about being gay as genetic. To me, its a choice. Like, tomorrow I could decide I was bisexual or I was homosexual. I won't, but its like that. I don't see how genetics has anything to do with being gay or not. So what if you like guys now. Just don't expect me to not mind another guy wanting to go out with me. Won't happen in heaven or hell.

I may also be Christian. BUT you cannot be all nicey nicey to everyone. Those lines mean treat other as you would like to be treated, and don't judge others. BUT you can draw the line somewhere. Don't get me wrong. But if I don't like getting a look that I'd give a girl I like, I don't like it. My choice, my way of life.

And like I said in the above, I don't care what you think of me. My life, my choices.

~Hunter

I'm fine for you to posses a belief but if you start to come across as homophobic then I think that is a problem. And it has been proven that it is not a choice... a lot of research has been published to prove that. Just look at Alan Turing for example, I'm sure he would of chosen to be straight and thus been able to continue working for GCHQ and he wouldn't of had to kill himself. It's not a choice to be gay, but even if it was how does that make it wrong. You choose to be a christian

[Prodigy17]

It's not a choice to be gay

So when did you realise you were gay?

Obviously it can't be genetic - or you wouldn't be born. Did you just decide when you couldn't get a girlfriend that life had dealt you the gay card?

[BandedKlepto]

So when did you realise you were gay?

Obviously it can't be genetic - or you wouldn't be born. Did you just decide when you couldn't get a girlfriend that life had dealt you the gay card?

Just because you cannot get a girlfriend, it doesn't mean you're gay. If you're gay you wouldn't even want a girlfriend to begin with (Unless you're confused perhaps?) But you would have an attraction to the same sex rather than the opposite.. :L As far as I know that's how it goes, I do not speak for all people so don't quote me on that. xD

I believe people should marry- no matter the gender.
Why should gender even matter?
If god didn't want diversity in sexuality, we would all be straight, no questions asked. But if being gay is against gods will or whatever (I am not religious- so I have no idea what the bibles say) if he is the "all powerful" wouldn't he stop it? That's not the case here, now is it?
This is just one big clusterfawk of a debate, isn't it? .3.

[xmojox]

Whether or not it is for equal rights or what ever.

Marriage is NOT a right. Doesn't matter what the supreme court of America thinks. I am not an American Citizen, so they do not rule over me, and I am entitled to my OWN opinion.

I say no to gay marriage.

Why?

I'll say why.

Humans, or any creature made male or female is made male and female. Why? Reproduction to keep the population going and preventing it from going out. Men are not made to carry children, we do not have wombs. All we have is a penis, and 2 balls that hang out to produce children with. Women have wombs, they are meant to carry children. So two guys wanting to get married is breaking the natural order of nature, and disrupting the circle of life.

This is why I am against gay marriage. I may not be all for gay people. Its not normal to me. Homosexuality may be found in 450 species in the world, but homophobia has been known to exist with chimpanzies. I saw it myself, a whole tribe of chimps killed two homosexual chimps simply for being that. Since we are humans, we are more civilized. I would definitely NOT go up to a gay couple and tell them they're coming together is wrong. I'll just leave them be.

Being entitled to my own opinion is what makes me human. I am free to make my own choices, and being gay, is not one of them. This is not my religious view, this is my personal sight on it. If my girlfriend likes gay guys, I don't mind. She's not so big on lesbians herself, and I am not so big on gay guys. But she likes gay guys, and I don't mind lesbians. Atleast they don't look at me like they want to go out with me. Getting that look from a guy is just *shudders*.

Thats my view. If you don't like me for it, I don't care. If you hate me for it, I seriously don't care. We're entitled to our opinions, and thats how it should stay.

~Hunter

I'm glad you aren't American.

[Harry Smith]

So when did you realise you were gay?

Obviously it can't be genetic - or you wouldn't be born. Did you just decide when you couldn't get a girlfriend that life had dealt you the gay card?

Fuck off, I've never wanted a girlfriend. I've never been attracted to them. This is why people think your homophobic. Don't tell me about my sexuality. The end

[Apollo.]

So when did you realise you were gay?

Obviously it can't be genetic - or you wouldn't be born. Did you just decide when you couldn't get a girlfriend that life had dealt you the gay card?

Ah I didn't want it to come to this, you are without a doubt the most homophobic ignorant wanker I've ever had the misfortune of conversing with. I really hope some serious harm comes your way, cunt!!

[Prodigy17]

Fuck off, I've never wanted a girlfriend. I've never been attracted to them.

Did the fact that girls weren't attracted to you influence your decision?

Not being nasty just curious why you feel you turned out to be gay.

[Harry Smith]

Did the fact that girls weren't attracted to you influence your decision?

Not being nasty just curious why you feel you turned out to be gay.

why do you assume girls aren't attracted to me haha, I've been told by my mates girlfriend that I looked 'fit' and yeah I've had girls told me I have a decent fashion sense and that I'm fun to talk to. I've had a girl come close to asking me out about 2 years ago but I convinced her I wasn't ready.

Don't assume that because I'm gay girls automatically dislike me.

[Prodigy17]

I've had a girl come close to asking me out about 2 years ago but I convinced her I wasn't ready.

Not being funny but why didn't you just I'm gay so I don't want any girl ever?

Saying you're not ready implies you might be ready in the future. Do you think you might be "ready" at some point?

[Harry Smith]

Not being funny but why didn't you just I'm gay so I don't want any girl ever?

Saying you're not ready implies you might be ready in the future. Do you think you might be "ready" at some point?

I lied because I was and still am in the closet. No-one in my school knows that I am gay, so I lied rather than saying- ' No I'm attracted men.' Understand now?

[Prodigy17]

I lied because I was and still am in the closet. No-one in my school knows that I am gay, so I lied rather than saying- ' No I'm attracted men.' Understand now?

Fair enough. I assumed the fact you're "openly" gay on a forum meant you would be in real life too.

Again not being funny but fair to assume your school suspects - not having had a girlfriend would be a giveaway no?

[Harry Smith]

Fair enough. I assumed the fact you're "openly" gay on a forum meant you would be in real life too.

Again not being funny but fair to assume your school suspects - not having had a girlfriend would be a giveaway no?

Nope not at all, I simply turned down a girl. There are only about 5 couples in my year. What does this have to do with Gay Marriage?

[Prodigy17]

Nope not at all, I simply turned down a girl. There are only about 5 couples in my year. What does this have to do with Gay Marriage?

I'm impressed you manage to hide being gay, can't be easy.

Isn't part of the gay marriage debate that gays are born gay rather than choosing to be gay?

[Taurus]

Anybody who says that being gay is a choice admits that they choose to be straight. Which means they suppress their attraction to the same sex.

[Harry Smith]

I'm impressed you manage to hide being gay, can't be easy.

Isn't part of the gay marriage debate that gays are born gay rather than choosing to be gay?

Correct, that is part of the debate. And I know through being gay that I was excusing the phrase 'born this way.' The fact that I've been in love with the same bloke for the last 3 years isn't my choice

[Prodigy17]

Correct, that is part of the debate. And I know through being gay that I was excusing the phrase 'born this way.' The fact that I've been in love with the same bloke for the last 3 years isn't my choice

Not my choice makes sense - I've loved a couple of girls I shoudn't and not through choice :)

Not being nosey but presumably this bloke knows - I mean he's your boyfriend?

[canadaski]

What I think, which would solve everybody's problems is that the concept of marriage should have no ties to legal rights, responsibilities and restrictions. There should be a legal equivalent to marriage that isn't marriage. The big problem, especially in the United States is that the entire government is based off of religion and an ancient set of documents which for the most part, don't have any relevance in today's world. Most politicians are far too prudish and traditional to make decisions for the future.

Let the religious people have their "marriage," but create an alternative that matches the legal specs of marriage. Too bad the defense of marriage act makes this extremely difficult (thanks to Mr. Clinton).

I'm glad I don't have to listen to this bullshit anymore in my country. I guess the United States prefers to follow the lead of several crumbling third world countries.

[CaliforniaMatt]

I'm not the biggest supporter, to be honest. There are more important issues in the world to deal with, though. Not worth the arguements and bloodshed it causes.

[Jah_Rastafari_]

The only thing I don't understand is why they deprive homosexuals of basic family rights like visitation and the like. Love for everyone and equality should be a priority the world over.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

Marriage is a right, regardless of whether you want it to be or not. The Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) has said so several times.

All these folks are asking for is equal rights. In America, the government can't dictate belief or action to religious institutions. Some are willing to perform weddings for same-sex couples and other's aren't. So be it. Nobody is trying to force churches to do anything they don't want to.

Today, SCOTUS is hearing arguments concerning California's Proposition 8, and, tomorrow concerning DOMA, the Federal Defense of Marriage Act. I believe that this court will want it's legacy to be that of the court that decided the Brown v. Board of Education of the gay rights movement, and, after June when the court is likely to release it's decision, all this debate will be moot and many people will have hurt feelings.

You know, I question why we are even letting the federal government dictate to us what marriage is. The states should barely even dealing with this. Whether or not you support gay marriage or not, the government shouldn't be able to decide on this issue like this.

[xmojox]

You know, I question why we are even letting the federal government dictate to us what marriage is. The states should barely even dealing with this. Whether or not you support gay marriage or not, the government shouldn't be able to decide on this issue like this.

I couldn't agree more. This should, ideally, be a non-issue. It should simply be that if two people want to be married, they get married. The opposition to same-sex marriage claims that, among other things, same-sex marriage will have some mystical and undefined effect on opposite-sex marriages, and, that same-sex marriage should be invalid because it is non-reproductive. One argument even went so far as to suggest that sexual orientation doesn't even exist. Why do they even care? As long as some segments try and impose their beliefs on other segments of society, someone has to decide, and that falls upon the courts.

I read the transcript of yesterday's oral arguments in the Proposition 8 case, and SCOTUS did allow the case to be submitted. I haven't yet read the transcript of today's arguments on DOMA as they weren't yet available the last time I checked.

It's sad that American citizens in the 21st century are still having to fight for their rights. Even more sad are those who would deny them those rights.

[CaliforniaMatt]

You may think limiting rights is sad, but others think giving rights is sad. These arguements will always be double-edged swords.

[norcaldude18]

I think one of the most annoying arguments against gay marriage is people claiming that children need to grow up with a mother and father. There are lots of gay people who don't necessarily want children. They love each other and they should be able to get married. Another thing, the divorce rate in this country is about 50%. I'm pretty sure a kid growing up and witnessing their parents getting divorced is a lot more devastating than a child that has two loving parents of the same sex.

[Harry Smith]

I think one of the most annoying arguments against gay marriage is people claiming that children need to grow up with a mother and father. There are lots of gay people who don't necessarily want children. They love each other and they should be able to get married. Another thing, the divorce rate in this country is about 50%. I'm pretty sure a kid growing up and witnessing their parents getting divorced is a lot more devastating than a child that has two loving parents of the same sex.

Marriage isn't about children. We don't force Straight couples to have children when they wed, I know a number of straight couples who marry without wanting to have kids. It's just a fear mongering tactic to convince people that gay people will somehow wipe out the population. It's bollocks

[ImCoolBeans]

You may think limiting rights is sad, but others think giving rights is sad. These arguements will always be double-edged swords.

While that may be somewhat true, you have to realize that we're speaking about a country where in it's constitution it states that it's citizens are entitled to rights which are to be upheld and protected by it's government. So your statement doesn't apply very well to this discussion.

[CaliforniaMatt]

This isn't the same America our forefathers founded oh-so-many years ago. That could be for the better, or the worse. You decide :P

[ImCoolBeans]

This isn't the same America our forefathers founded oh-so-many years ago. That could be for the better, or the worse. You decide :P

That also has nothing to do with the discussion, or more importantly what I said :P

You stated that giving rights can be viewed as sad -- I said we're talking about a nation that does not run on that belief system. It may be viewed that way elsewhere in the world; but that shouldn't be a part of the discussion when it's been longly established otherwise here.

[CaliforniaMatt]

While that may be somewhat true, you have to realize that we're speaking about a country where in it's constitution it states that it's citizens are entitled to rights which are to be upheld and protected by it's government. So your statement doesn't apply very well to this discussion. "

I was making a reference to "entitled to rights which are to be upheld and protected by it's government." Constitutional rights have become corrupted, twisted, butchered. All I meant is, it shouldn't be left to the government.

[ImCoolBeans]

While that may be somewhat true, you have to realize that we're speaking about a country where in it's constitution it states that it's citizens are entitled to rights which are to be upheld and protected by it's government. So your statement doesn't apply very well to this discussion. "

I was making a reference to "entitled to rights which are to be upheld and protected by it's government." Constitutional rights have become corrupted, twisted, butchered. All I meant is, it shouldn't be left to the government.

Then how exactly are those rights supposed to be respected, upheld or protected? Without the government involved in that they won't be -- making them ideas rather than rights. I agree that the people should be more involved in choosing rights; but the government is an important part of the equation.

[CaliforniaMatt]

Then how exactly are those rights supposed to be respected, upheld or protected? Without the government involved in that they won't be -- making them ideas rather than rights. I agree that the people should be more involved in choosing rights; but the government is an important part of the equation.

At this point, the government needs a good purging. Then, I'll put faith in it. I don't trust the government, I trust my nation. There's a reason we own more guns than the local Armory xD

[steellord321]

I'm not the biggest supporter, to be honest. There are more important issues in the world to deal with, though. Not worth the arguements and bloodshed it causes.

I dont know what bloodshed but If it passes it would basically end the arguments. It would become the norm and no would be harmed by it. In 5 years it will be embarrassing this was ever an issue. Human rights is important also and i dont see how this gets in the way of say fixing the debt in greece or lack of food in africa. This seems the biggest cop out.

[CaliforniaMatt]

The thing is, there will always be hatred. You can't expect everyone to assimilate.

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I believe the main reason why people are opposed to same-sex marriage is because they don't want future generations growing up in a place where homosexuality is approved of. For people who do not believe homosexuality is ok, they might see this as their opinions being belittled by the people who do believe that homosexuality is ok.

I for one can tell you that I will never be able to approve of homosexuality, but I can accept that it will always be out there. I'm pretty sure eventually same-sex marriage will be allowed in the whole U.S. and I will never be ok with it, but I will have to live with it, just like if it isn't passed, supporters will have to live with that.

[xmojox]

I believe the main reason why people are opposed to same-sex marriage is because they don't want future generations growing up in a place where homosexuality is approved of. For people who do not believe homosexuality is ok, they might see this as their opinions being belittled by the people who do believe that homosexuality is ok.

I for one can tell you that I will never be able to approve of homosexuality, but I can accept that it will always be out there. I'm pretty sure eventually same-sex marriage will be allowed in the whole U.S. and I will never be ok with it, but I will have to live with it, just like if it isn't passed, supporters will have to live with that.

Many people don't approve of Catholicism. Does that mean they should have the right to have to have Catholicism abolished? I personally find the views of the Klan to be abhorrent, but I would no way support any action to limit their exercise of their legal rights. We simply can not say, in this country, that because we don't like a particular thing we can infringe on another citizen's rights. In America, the rights of some must be extended to all.

[steellord321]

The thing is, there will always be hatred. You can't expect everyone to assimilate.

I only insist that no one stand in the way of it. Vote against it or take it to court and discussion is over. Otherwise, If u or anyone else have hatred thats their problem and not my concern. Its still pathetic though especially when gay marriage is inevitable at this point. Most useless emotion ever.

[Harry Smith]

I only insist that no one stand in the way of it. Vote against it or take it to court and discussion is over. Otherwise, If u or anyone else have hatred thats their problem and not my concern. Its still pathetic though especially when gay marriage is inevitable at this point. Most useless emotion ever.

I think it's in Love actually where Hugh grant says that if you look back at the 9/11 messages from the people on the planes those final messages where of love and not of hate, these people reached out to there loved ones. Thats why I support gay marriage because we talk about religion,rights and role of the government but the most important thing is that if I love another guy I should be able to spend my life lovingly married to him

[SaxyHaloBeast]

I think it's in Love actually where Hugh grant says that if you look back at the 9/11 messages from the people on the planes those final messages where of love and not of hate, these people reached out to there loved ones. Thats why I support gay marriage because we talk about religion,rights and role of the government but the most important thing is that if I love another guy I should be able to spend my life lovingly married to him

Once again, love is not the only thing that makes a marriage. "Marriage (also called matrimony or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people called spouses that establishes rights and obligations between the spouses, between the spouses and their children, and between the spouses and their in-laws." Just because people love each other, doesn't mean they should or can get married. The two spouses have to be physically, mentally, and emotionally able to uphold those rights and obligations that they establish between each other, their children, and their extended families. If love is all you think you need for marriage, then your marriage will not last long at all.

[Harry Smith]

Once again, love is not the only thing that makes a marriage. "Marriage (also called matrimony or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people called spouses that establishes rights and obligations between the spouses, between the spouses and their children, and between the spouses and their in-laws." Just because people love each other, doesn't mean they should or can get married. The two spouses have to be physically, mentally, and emotionally able to uphold those rights and obligations that they establish between each other, their children, and their extended families. If love is all you think you need for marriage, then your marriage will not last long at all.

I was purely trying to show the emotional side behind the fact that I wish to someday marry the man that I want to. I hope that I'm physically, mentally and emotionally able to commit to a stable relationship. The purpose of marriage isn't to raise kids as mentioned above, many straight couples marry without wanting children. Children are not required. I have a right to marry who I want

[xmojox]

Once again, love is not the only thing that makes a marriage. "Marriage (also called matrimony or wedlock) is a social union or legal contract between people called spouses that establishes rights and obligations between the spouses, between the spouses and their children, and between the spouses and their in-laws." Just because people love each other, doesn't mean they should or can get married. The two spouses have to be physically, mentally, and emotionally able to uphold those rights and obligations that they establish between each other, their children, and their extended families. If love is all you think you need for marriage, then your marriage will not last long at all.

What test does the government use to determine these for heterosexual couples who apply for a marriage license? If you know of any, I'd be interested to know what they are. If there are none (as I suspect) then it's not a fair measuring stick. Besides, you infer that gay couples aren't capable of those things? Hmmm.

[steellord321]

I think it's in Love actually where Hugh grant says that if you look back at the 9/11 messages from the people on the planes those final messages where of love and not of hate, these people reached out to there loved ones. Thats why I support gay marriage because we talk about religion,rights and role of the government but the most important thing is that if I love another guy I should be able to spend my life lovingly married to him

Hey that's a really neat way of looking at it. I've not seen that movie but thanks for giving me somethin to think about, and for your support.

[Jonathan1998]

I have some Christian beliefs and stuff but I'm not against gay marriage, LGBT couples deserve equal rights as straight couples love knows no gender, is a philosophy I live by and yeah to me marriage is just the same whether it's procreative or not. So all I say is, if you're against it, that's your choice.

I don't disrespect it. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

[peaceNlove]

Because the definition of marriage in the Church is a permanent, unitive, procreative bond between a man and a woman. The issue with gay marriage is that it is not procreative. Only a man and a woman can create children. Procreation is the most important part of the definition of marriage, which is why the Church opposes gay marriage. Its not because the Church is against gays or says that gays can't love, its that gay marriage isn't possible under the Church definiton. The Church calls those who have same-sex attraction to be chaste. Actually is calls everyone who isn't a married man and woman to be chaste. And I think marriage is a bit of a more important issue than shrimp or clothing. Not everything in the Bible is to be taken literally.

Well what about women who physically can't have children? If a woman has a medical condition to where she can't have children and decides to get married to a man, they are obviously not getting married for procreation. So should they not be able to get married? What about for older couples and the woman is on menopause? They shouldn't be able to get married either right? They're not getting married for procreation.

[Jess]

Well what about women who physically can't have children? If a woman has a medical condition to where she can't have children and decides to get married to a man, they are obviously not getting married for procreation. So should they not be able to get married? What about for older couples and the woman is on menopause? They shouldn't be able to get married either right? They're not getting married for procreation.

This this this. Also, don't forget couples who don't want children. I might want to get married, but I never want children.

[peaceNlove]

This this this. Also, don't forget couples who don't want children. I might want to get married, but I never want children.

Oh yea exactly. Also, there's adoption. Any of the situations that i mentioned could result in adoption. Gay couples adopt too and they are not allowed to get married, but straight couples can. That just doesn't make sense to me. And yea, like you said, some people just don't want children.

[IAMWILL]

Well what about women who physically can't have children? If a woman has a medical condition to where she can't have children and decides to get married to a man, they are obviously not getting married for procreation. So should they not be able to get married? What about for older couples and the woman is on menopause? They shouldn't be able to get married either right? They're not getting married for procreation.

This this this. Also, don't forget couples who don't want children. I might want to get married, but I never want children.

Before I begin, let me note that I am specifically talking about the Catholic Church here.

If a women is infertile, that is no issue. For a marriage to be valid, a couple just has to only be open to the gift of life. Adoption is an option. If the couple doesn't want children, then technically their marriage is not valid. Children is the most important part of marriage, so in the eyes of Catholicism, a couple who do not want children should not be married. Infertility is something nature decides though, and of course the Church respects that.

[Cicero]

When I think of this, I think of that Family Guy episode where Lois is ok with homosexuality, but believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. Marriage was originally religious, if a gay couple want to get married I think there should be a different name attached to it but they should get the same rights. It just shouldn't be called marriage. So I agree with Lois (when she believed marriage was between man and woman) on this issue.

[DerBear]

I feel that Marriage in the true old form has gone. Its no longer needed to marry in a church, we should get with the times before the world moves on without us.

[peaceNlove]

Before I begin, let me note that I am specifically talking about the Catholic Church here.

If a women is infertile, that is no issue. For a marriage to be valid, a couple just has to only be open to the gift of life. Adoption is an option. If the couple doesn't want children, then technically their marriage is not valid. Children is the most important part of marriage, so in the eyes of Catholicism, a couple who do not want children should not be married. Infertility is something nature decides though, and of course the Church respects that.

Oh yea i see. If a gay couple wants to adopt though, how is that still wrong? I understand your point though, that children are an important part of marriage. However, i don't necessarily think that children have to be part of the equation. People should get married because they love each other. Also, some people can be married, but don't have the environment to raise a child, such as jobs that require moving from place to place. Children can't be raised in that situation, they need stability.

[IAMWILL]

Oh yea i see. If a gay couple wants to adopt though, how is that still wrong? I understand your point though, that children are an important part of marriage. However, i don't necessarily think that children have to be part of the equation. People should get married because they love each other. Also, some people can be married, but don't have the environment to raise a child, such as jobs that require moving from place to place. Children can't be raised in that situation, they need stability.

Only married couples can adopt, and being that gay couples cannot marry in the Catholic Church, they therefore cannot adopt. There are many other smaller issues beyond that, but that is the general idea. To address your second question, couples must go through counseling and classes 6 months before they are married to ensure that the marriage will work. Issues like that are definitely addressed. If it was foreseen that the couple was not in the best situation to have children, they would not be allowed to marry until they are in a good position to start and support a family.