What's the bigger problem today: Racism or Sexism?

[oetzelflash]

I'm from Germany and racism isn't a problem there anymore. Yea, a few people are still against other countries, but, these people are not much.
And sexicm...I think It's not as terrible as bullying ! Serious !

[Prodigy17]

I've not argued that it isn't getting better, simply that we have a long way to go. He has said repeatedly that neither exist any longer, and to state that blacks are predisposed to commit crime is racist, plain and simple.

so do you think a black/gay person/female should sit around waiting until racism/sexism have been totally eradicated from society or get after what they want now?

My point throughout this thread is racism/sexism will not prevent you from getting what you want. Do you agree with that?

[Sugaree]

I've not argued that it isn't getting better, simply that we have a long way to go. He has said repeatedly that neither exist any longer, and to state that blacks are predisposed to commit crime is racist, plain and simple.

Except if you look at crime rates, blacks are 50 times more likely to commit crimes against whites than whites do to blacks (http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/blacks-50-times-more-likely-to-commit-crime-against-whites-than-whites-do-to-blacks/question-2667057/).

Also take a look at the 2010 FBI crime statistics and you'll see that, broken down by race, 90% of all blacks are killed by blacks and 83% of whites are killed by whites. There were also 14.82 murders per 100K by blacks versus 2.17 per 100K for whites. Per capita there are 7x more murders committed by blacks than whites. This isn't claiming that blacks are predisposed to crime, but to say that racism against blacks is an issue is wrong. Clearly the statistics are not on your side.

[workingatperfect]

OK that makes sense Nikki - you're saying you didn't mind being stereotyped because it was true? I think many people would still say wrong to sterotype others even if it is true. To many people just the idea of drawing a stereo type is wrong, even though 99 druggies might be fat/stupid/lazy the 100th might be none of those things.

What I'm trying to say that just aren't getting, is there's a difference between stereotyping and simply stating that someone lives up to society's stereotype of them. In fact I think I said that they didn't vote for him because he was rich and white, they didn't vote for him because he was really was an asshole, as people expect when they see a rich white male. No tell me, where in there did I stereotype anyone? For the record, since you don't seem to know this, saying what a stereotype is, is not stereotyping. So, saying that people think blondes are dumb, people that wear black are emo and gingers are losers, is not stereotyping, because that is what other people think. I never once said that I think that.


I thought you'd say that :) If it was something like blacks = 3% of the population but 5% of people in prison then maybe you could explain it away by racist judges/juries/cops etc. But when the discrepancy is so large - 3% vs 13% - and the same pattern is repeated in other countires there is no way it can be explained away by anything other than the obvious - blacks commit more crime.

Question for you - is there any number that would convince you blacks commit more crimes? Say blacks are 3% of the UK but 70% of those in prison would you then say blacks commit more crime or would you still explain it away by other factors?

Liberal thinking is all very nice but at some stage you do have to just use common sense and draw the obvious conclusion :)

It's not just liberal thinking, it's logical, scientific thinking. Too many variables to draw a solid conclusion when the difference is only one tenth of a percent. Maybe if 1% of the white population was in prison and 20% of the black population was in prison I could say that any other factors could not cause that much of a difference. But .1%? No, not a big enough difference to dismiss the affect of racial or any other factors.

[xmojox]

so do you think a black/gay person/female should sit around waiting until racism/sexism have been totally eradicated from society or get after what they want now?

My point throughout this thread is racism/sexism will not prevent you from getting what you want. Do you agree with that?

I haven't made a single statement indicating that I think anyone should sit around waiting for the world to be perfect. I do believe that denying problems altogether makes it harder to solve them.

No, I don't agree with that at all. I believe there are far too many cases where racism and sexism do exactly that. Obviously not in all cases, because things are changing bit by bit. Neither, however has been eradicated. Do you agree with that?

[Prodigy17]

they didn't vote for him because he was really was an asshole, as people expect when they see a rich white male.

That's probably true. I don't think anyone who's had the success he's had would claim to be a nice guy - but his record proved he could get results. For the people the choice is
1/ a white "asshole" who's going to get the job done
or
2/ a nice black guy who looks good on TV but has no clue how to run the economy.

I'd choose the asshole over the nice guy every time but clearly people went with the nice guy. And yes I know that was probably off topic :)


No, not a big enough difference to dismiss the affect of racial or any other factors.

OK. That's were we differ - nothing to argue about just different opinions.

[workingatperfect]

Didn't Massachusetts have like a terrible unemployment rate? And I heard many many things about how many people from that state said they would never vote for him and would be incredibly worried if he became president. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound like competence to me. But that's not a matter for this topic.

Yes, it is just a matter of differing opinions I guess. But I still have one question. Why are you trying to justify racism with prison stats? Racism is bad in any case, whether they commit a little bit more crime or not.

[Prodigy17]

I believe there are far too many cases where racism and sexism do exactly that. Obviously not in all cases, because things are changing bit by bit. Neither, however has been eradicated. Do you agree with that?

I don't. This goes back to the earlier point about proof.

If a black guy wanted to achieve x (whatever x is) but failed he could say it was because he was black. It would be impossible to prove his being black was the only reason or even a contributing reason - maybe he just wasn't good enough.

But if a black guy wanted to be president of the usa and succeeded in his goal that proves beyond any doubt a black guy can get the top job in the western world.

See what I'm saying?

[Prodigy17]

Didn't Massachusetts have like a terrible unemployment rate? And I heard many many things about how many people from that state said they would never vote for him and would be incredibly worried if he became president. I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound like competence to me. But that's not a matter for this topic.

So you're saying that Romney was incompetent despite making several hundred million dollars in business? Second thoughts, I'll probably get lambasted for pursuing this so let's just let it lie shall we. Maybe a topic for another thread - but I ain't going to start it :)

Yes, it is just a matter of differing opinions I guess. But I still have one question. Why are you trying to justify racism with prison stats? Racism is bad in any case, whether they commit a little bit more crime or not.

All i said was that blacks are more likely to commit crimes than whites. I don't believe it is racist to draw that conclusion from the stats.

I do believe it is very naive not to draw that conclusion from the stats.

But then being racist is probably worse than being naive for many people:)

[xmojox]

Color of Crime: Racial Hoaxes, White Fear, Black Protectionism, Police Harassment, and other Macroaggressions by Katheryn Russell-Brown

"Each year, Whites account for almost 70 percent of the total arrests, and today they comprise about 40 percent of the prison population."


I just thought I'd trot out some statistics of my own. Racial disparity between arrest and conviction rates? I think so.

And, for the record, and also off topic, Romney lost Massachusetts, his home state, by the second largest margin in the history of US presidential elections.

[workingatperfect]

So you're saying that Romney was incompetent despite making several hundred million dollars in business? Second thoughts, I'll probably get lambasted for pursuing this so let's just let it lie shall we. Maybe a topic for another thread - but I ain't going to start it :)



All i said was that blacks are more likely to commit crimes than whites. I don't believe it is racist to draw that conclusion from the stats.

I do believe it is very naive not to draw that conclusion from the stats.

But then being racist is probably worse than being naive for many people:)

It's not racist because yes, there are numbers to back up your claim, but the way presenting it is like you're trying to say that it's ok to be racist because black people commit more crime.

[Harry Smith]

But from what he's also saying is that it doesn't exist to the degree which many people think it still does. Racism and sexism aren't as prevalent in the 21st century as it was in the mid 20th century or even 18th and 19th centuries.

I agree with that, people have become more tolerant in the 21st century. I was just point out that Prodigy 17 earlier in the thread denied the existence of racism or sexism. I was just showing how he keeps backtracking on his argument, look at my earlier quote. At one stage he didn't even think that they existed. I admit that his view may of changed but he can't even acknowledge what he said before

[Prodigy17]

It's not racist because yes, there are numbers to back up your claim, but the way presenting it is like you're trying to say that it's ok to be racist because black people commit more crime.

Sorry I don't understand your point. First you say I'm not being racist because my argument has some backing then you're saying I'm suggesting it's OK to be racist.

Just as another example, blacks make up ~10% of the US population but 55% of arrests for robbery and 50% of arrests for murder are blacks. That suggests quite clearly that blacks commit a lot more robbery and murder (the worst crimes) than whites. Obviously I can link to the data if you like.

Just so I understand you - do you think it's racist to draw conclusions from crime figures that are unfavourable to blacks?

[workingatperfect]

Sorry I don't understand your point. First you say I'm not being racist because my argument has some backing then you're saying I'm suggesting it's OK to be racist.

Just as another example, blacks make up ~10% of the US population but 55% of arrests for robbery and 50% of arrests for murder are blacks. That suggests quite clearly that blacks commit a lot more robbery and murder (the worst crimes) than whites. Obviously I can link to the data if you like.

Just so I understand you - do you think it's racist to draw conclusions from crime figures that are unfavourable to blacks?

No, it is not racist to draw conclusions from solid facts.

I was pointing out what others have mentioned previously, which is that bringing up those stats makes it sound like you're trying to justify being racist. Like, we're talking about the presence of racism in society and you're like "Well black people commit more crimes." As if it's ok to be racist because they commit relatively more crime in the UK.

[Prodigy17]

No, it is not racist to draw conclusions from solid facts.

I was pointing out what others have mentioned previously, which is that bringing up those stats makes it sound like you're trying to justify being racist. Like, we're talking about the presence of racism in society and you're like "Well black people commit more crimes." As if it's ok to be racist because they commit relatively more crime in the UK.

That's a very worrying view. If you consider anyone drawing conclusions from stats to be defending racism then it would be impossible to reach any conclusion in case one were accused of defending racism?

For clarity I am not defending racism - I am just pointing out some simple facts that very few people in this thread seem to be able to accept. Blacks commit more (and more serious) crime than whites, both in the UK and USA.

But clearly it is possible for a skilled/motivated black guy (eg Obama) to succeed despite being a member of a race that commits more crime.

If I was defending racism I would say Obama (or any other motivated black guy) should not be allowed to succeed because of their race. I hope you realise I am most clearly not saying that - even though I don't agree with his views I am praising him for succeeding and I hope he serves as an inspiration to others.

[Allbutanillusion]

There has been a "side debate" within this debate about whether or not blacks participate in more criminal activities. Some seem to choose to remain ignorant of certain facts, for whatever reason. Perhaps it is that one of the most dreaded things in today's society is to be called a racist. But I don't think telling it as it is, should be considered racist.., it is called being honest.

Lets look at some facts;

Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

When blacks commit crimes of violence, they are nearly three times more likely than non-blacks to use a gun, and more than twice as likely to use a knife.

Hispanics commit violent crimes at roughly three times the white rate, and Asians commit violent crimes at about one quarter the white rate.

The single best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percentage of the population that is black and Hispanic

Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery.

Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa

Of the nearly 770,000 violent interracial crimes committed every year involving blacks and whites, blacks commit 85 percent and whites commit 15 percent.

Blacks commit more violent crime against whites than against blacks. Forty-five percent of their victims are white, 43 percent are black, and 10 percent are Hispanic. When whites commit violent crime, only three percent of their victims are black

Blacks are an estimated 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against a white than vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit robbery

Blacks are 2.25 times more likely to commit officially-designated hate crimes against whites than vice versa


To find more facts, visit.., http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf

[xmojox]

Prodigy, you've asked how many black presidents there'd have to be for it to mean that race isn't an issue. The answer is only one, but it'd be necessary that he just be president...not a black president.

[workingatperfect]

That's a very worrying view. If you consider anyone drawing conclusions from stats to be defending racism then it would be impossible to reach any conclusion in case one were accused of defending racism?

For clarity I am not defending racism - I am just pointing out some simple facts that very few people in this thread seem to be able to accept. Blacks commit more (and more serious) crime than whites, both in the UK and USA.

But clearly it is possible for a skilled/motivated black guy (eg Obama) to succeed despite being a member of a race that commits more crime.

If I was defending racism I would say Obama (or any other motivated black guy) should not be allowed to succeed because of their race. I hope you realise I am most clearly not saying that - even though I don't agree with his views I am praising him for succeeding and I hope he serves as an inspiration to others.

It's just in the context of this thread. Everyone is discussing if racism is a bigger deal than sexism and then you come in posting stats about crime rates as if to say that racism isn't as big a problem because it has numbers to back it up. And I guess that's all fine and dandy, because the numbers do show that, but it doesn't mean it's ok to be racist. I think Harry mentioned something about this earlier, but I can't be bothered to look for it.

[xmojox]

There has been a "side debate" within this debate about whether or not blacks participate in more criminal activities. Some seem to choose to remain ignorant of certain facts, for whatever reason. Perhaps it is that one of the most dreaded things in today's society is to be called a racist. But I don't think telling it as it is, should be considered racist.., it is called being honest.


My argument isn't with the statistics at all. What's burned my ass about it is that the gentleman said quite plainly that blacks are predisposed to illegal activity.

predispose [pree-di-spohz ]

verb (used with object) 1. to give an inclination or tendency to beforehand; make susceptible: Genetic factors may predispose human beings to certain metabolic diseases. 2. to render subject, susceptible, or liable: The evidence predisposes him to public censure. 3. to dispose beforehand.

My argument is, and has been, simply this: There are other reasons for these statistics than the color of someone's skin. Race is not the only variable involved.


I apologize if this winds up being a double post. I'm on my phone and it's being a dick.

[Prodigy17]

It's just in the context of this thread. Everyone is discussing if racism is a bigger deal than sexism and then you come in posting stats about crime rates as if to say that racism isn't as big a problem because it has numbers to back it up. And I guess that's all fine and dandy, because the numbers do show that, but it doesn't mean it's ok to be racist. I think Harry mentioned something about this earlier, but I can't be bothered to look for it.

Well it should be obvious that the crime committed by blacks is irrelevant to the question is racism or sexism is a bigger issue.

I posted the figures to illustrate that some people in this thread are unable/unwilling to accept a simple conclusion - blacks commit more (and more serious) crimes than whites.

To my mind anyone who can't accept that despite strong evidence is unable to understand the world as it really is today. Anyone who can't understand the world in a rational way shouldn't be discussing racism. It would be like discussing Shakespeare without being able to read.

That was my sole point with the crime figures - unfortunately it seems to have gone over most people's heads :)

[Prodigy17]

My argument is, and has been, simply this: There are other reasons for these statistics than the color of someone's skin.

What you actually mean is you want to believe there are other reasons so you're going to tell yourself there must be other reasons and ignore anything that might disagree with your view. That is a long way from saying there are other reasons.

As I mentioned earlier the question of inherent difference in races (predisposition to crime being one) has not been answered yet. All any of us can do now is form sensible opinions based on available data - the data we have does tend to all point one way but nobody actually knows the answer.

What makes you think you "know" the answer despite all the figures we have being against you?

[xmojox]

What you actually mean is you want to believe there are other reasons so you're going to tell yourself there must be other reasons and ignore anything that might disagree with your view. That is a long way from saying there are other reasons.

As I mentioned earlier the question of inherent difference in races (predisposition to crime being one) has not been answered yet. All any of us can do now is form sensible opinions based on available data - the data we have does tend to all point one way but nobody actually knows the answer.

What makes you think you "know" the answer despite all the figures we have being against you?

And you're still holding to the belief that black people commit crime because they're black and for no other reason. Your statistics do not prove that, no matter how many times you say they do

[Prodigy17]

And you're still holding to the belief that black people commit crime because they're black and for no other reason. Your statistics do not prove that, no matter how many times you say they do

Not for no other reason but being black is certainly 1 reason. Why do you think that opinion is wrong?

Don't bother answering if your only answer is "because I want it to be wrong".

[Harry Smith]

Finally something we can agree on.

So why is it so important to you/apollo to try and prove that racism/sexism still exist?

Example 1- You state racism and sexism don't exist




If you two really want to convince yourself that racism/sexism whatever ever other ism still exists then go swap Gaurdian links with each other

Again you state racism and sexism doesn't exist

Harry,
can we agree by that measure racism does not exist?
Obviously same question for sexism.



Example 3- you state racism and sexism doesn't exist

Finally something we can agree on.

So why is it so important to you/apollo to try and prove that racism/sexism still exist? ?

Example 4- You state again that you don't think that racism or sexism still exist.

Just wanted to make it crystal clear that Prodigy 17 has actively denied that racism and sexism existed earlier on the thread. This talks for itself

[xmojox]

What you actually mean is you want to believe there are other reasons so you're going to tell yourself there must be other reasons and ignore anything that might disagree with your view. That is a long way from saying there are other reasons.

As I mentioned earlier the question of inherent difference in races (predisposition to crime being one) has not been answered yet. All any of us can do now is form sensible opinions based on available data - the data we have does tend to all point one way but nobody actually knows the answer.

What makes you think you "know" the answer despite all the figures we have being against you?

First, don't tell me what I mean. I've shown you how you made a causal error interpreting your statistics, illustrated by example and explanation from an actual scholarly work.

What makes you think that your analysis that requires some inherent criminal gene to exist in black people's DNA is the correct one?

[Prodigy17]

First, don't tell me what I mean.

Why not? I said your only reason for thinking my opinion was wrong was because you want it to be wrong - ie you have no actual logical reason for thinking I'm wrong. This has been evidenced by the fact you've stated no reason(s) thus far.

If I mis-judged you feel free to prove me wrong on that by stating your reasons.

What makes you think that your analysis that requires some inherent criminal gene to exist in black people's DNA is the correct one?

Because if something happens that is statistically significant there has to be a reason for it. Things don't happen by chance.

The crime figures in the US show very clearly that blacks commit more crime and more serious crimes than whites. The difference is big enough to be significant - ie not a fluke, error in the figures etc. So there must be a reason.

The most likely reason is that blacks are more pre-disposed to crime than whites.

I realise you think this isn't true because you don't want it to be true - so state your reason(s) for the big difference between black vs white.

[Celtic.]

In my opinion, sexism is a larger concern than racism today. By and large, racism is gone from today's society, but sexism (mostly against women) is widespread.

For example, of all the Fortune 500 companies, only 4.2% of their CEOs are women (21 of the 500 positions are held by women).

oh so getting shot for no reason is better than getting in the kitchen?

[Prodigy17]

oh so getting shot for no reason is better than getting in the kitchen?

I don't think anyone - ever - has said the worst thing about racism is that you might get shot

[Harry Smith]

Why not? I said your only reason for thinking my opinion was wrong was because you want it to be wrong - ie you have no actual logical reason for thinking I'm wrong. This has been evidenced by the fact you've stated no reason(s) thus far.

If I mis-judged you feel free to prove me wrong on that by stating your reasons.



Because if something happens that is statistically significant there has to be a reason for it. Things don't happen by chance.

The crime figures in the US show very clearly that blacks commit more crime and more serious crimes than whites. The difference is big enough to be significant - ie not a fluke, error in the figures etc. So there must be a reason.

The most likely reason is that blacks are more pre-disposed to crime than whites.

I realise you think this isn't true because you don't want it to be true - so state your reason(s) for the big difference between black vs white.

You sound like Enoch Powell , just putting it out there. Blacks are more pre-disposed to crime haha. Say that where I live, you'll have everyone of every different colour telling you to swiftly- Fuck off.

Before I thought you were a closet racist, now it's obvious your a homophobic, sexist and racist Individual. I'll let you know you will not get far in life with those attitudes.

You can use facts and figures but I've got many to oppose yours, now I know you will just quote this sentence because that's your tactic but for every stat there is a counter state.

Note- Read all of my post...

[Prodigy17]

I've read all your post ^^
what now?

[Harry Smith]

I've read all your post ^^
what now?

Originally Posted by Prodigy17
Finally something we can agree on.

So why is it so important to you/apollo to try and prove that racism/sexism still exist?

Example 1- You state racism and sexism don't exist


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy17

If you two really want to convince yourself that racism/sexism whatever ever other ism still exists then go swap Gaurdian links with each other

Again you state racism and sexism doesn't exist

Originally Posted by Prodigy17
Harry,
can we agree by that measure racism does not exist?
Obviously same question for sexism.

Example 3- you state racism and sexism doesn't exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy17
Finally something we can agree on.

So why is it so important to you/apollo to try and prove that racism/sexism still exist? ?
Example 4- You state again that you don't think that racism or sexism still exist.

You could either say that you wish to withdraw your previous statements saying racism doesn't exist or you can continue to claim that it doesn't exist because I find it hard to move on from the fact you have denied it but yet ignore it when I bring it up

[xmojox]

Prodigy: While you've chosen to believe that black people are genetic criminals, I choose to not make the same elementary error of reasoning that you've fallen into. You've gone from "Black people commit more crime" to "Black people are genetically disposed toward being criminals." That's an amazing leap. What I am, and have been telling you, is that there are other variables that you aren't even willing to entertain. There are social issues, economic issues, educational issues...and yet you make the leap and say an entire race are genetic criminals. Your premise is flawed because you haven't considered any other possibility, and the "evidence" from these statistics does not prove your premise, no matter how much you want to pretend it does.

[Prodigy17]

You could either say that you wish to withdraw your previous statements saying racism doesn't exist or you can continue to claim that it doesn't exist because I find it hard to move on from the fact you have denied it but yet ignore it when I bring it up

I'll withdraw the comment about the Guardian links - clearly that was a sarcastic personal attack that had no place in a polite debate.

Racism doesn't exist because a black person would not be prevented from what he wants by virtue of his colour - same for women/sexism. That has been my central point for the last 10 pages. Nothing has changed thus far, so nothing else to withdraw.

If you find it hard to move on Harry maybe you should just withdraw from the debate, you're not in school now and I'm not here to deal with your feelings. The debate has moved on - other points have been made and you're still 10 pages behind.

Now say something useful or go home.

[Prodigy17]

Your premise is flawed because you haven't considered any other possibility, and the "evidence" from these statistics does not prove your premise, no matter how much you want to pretend it does.

OK. Let's start with the premise.

Do you think the crime figures* show that blacks commit significantly more crime - per head - than whites?


* For clarity I'm using USA figures as they are much more detailed.

[xmojox]

OK. Let's start with the premise.

Do you think the crime figures* show that blacks commit significantly more crime - per head - than whites?


* For clarity I'm using USA figures as they are much more detailed.

Once again, sir, and I'm truly getting tired of saying this, I neither refute nor dispute your statistics. It is the premise you draw from them with which I have a problem.

Your premise is: Black people commit more crime than white people therefore black people must be genetically predisposed to criminal activity.

Again, sir, I say, that is an amazing leap of reasoning.

[Prodigy17]

Once again, sir, and I'm truly getting tired of saying this, I neither refute nor dispute your statistics. It is the premise you draw from them with which I have a problem.

Your premise is: Black people commit more crime than white people therefore black people must be genetically predisposed to criminal activity.

Again, sir, I say, that is an amazing leap of reasoning.

You don't draw a premise - you start from a premise. From a premise you draw a conclusion.

My premise is
1/ blacks commit significantly more crime than whites. I assume you do accept this as it is a fact?
2/ there must be a reason for 1/ - doesn't have to be my reason but some reason

Do you agree with 2/?

[StoppingTime]

You don't draw a premise - you start from a premise. From a premise you draw a conclusion.

My premise is
1/ blacks commit significantly more crime than whites. I assume you do accept this as it is a fact?
2/ there must be a reason for 1/ - doesn't have to be my reason but some reason

Do you agree with 2/?

First, do you have multiple sources that actually confirm that fact? And if so, what does it say about racism, anyway?

[Apollo.]

You don't draw a premise - you start from a premise. From a premise you draw a conclusion.

My premise is
1/ blacks commit significantly more crime than whites. I assume you do accept this as it is a fact?
2/ there must be a reason for 1/ - doesn't have to be my reason but some reason

Do you agree with 2/?

You have changed the debate yet again! How did you get from debating about racism and sexism not existing to then saying it does but it's the persons own fault if it affects then to the crime rates caused by black people?
Your clutching at straws trying to get the last word in and people are clearly starting to get pissed off. I'd quit while people are still being friendly if I were you. If you wish to debate about separate issues then create a new thread

[xmojox]

You don't draw a premise - you start from a premise. From a premise you draw a conclusion.

My premise is
1/ blacks commit significantly more crime than whites. I assume you do accept this as it is a fact?
2/ there must be a reason for 1/ - doesn't have to be my reason but some reason

Do you agree with 2/?

Semantics. You knew perfectly well what I meant.

Are you thick or just being intentionally irritating? Have I not been saying repeatedly that there are other more sensible reasons than the one you propose?

I'm finished trying to discuss anything with you.

[Prodigy17]

Semantics. You knew perfectly well what I meant.

Are you thick or just being intentionally irritating?

The fact you don't know what a premise is means I'm thick - that's a strange leap of logic.

Have I not been saying repeatedly that there are other more sensible reasons than the one you propose?

You have - issue is you've never stated what they are despite my asking you several times.

So let's hear these reasons.

[StoppingTime]

I like it how you completely disregarded my post

[xmojox]

The fact you don't know what a premise is means I'm thick - that's a strange leap of logic.



You have - issue is you've never stated what they are despite my asking you several times.

So let's hear these reasons.

I know what a premise is and I know what a conclusion is. Fact is I'm so dizzy from running in circles with you that I'm surprised I remember my own name.

No, you're thick because you refuse to read. I've given you other possible reasons as recently as a few posts up.

Your username here may be Prodigy, but you assuredly aren't one.

This is the last that I will ever say to you. I hope that you have an interesting life.

[Apollo.]

I like it how you completely disregarded my post

It's part of his special debating technique, he disregards any posts that he doesn't have an answer for or any awkward questions, that's the only reason this thread has gone on so long. It's a good system really when you can't face that your wrong, doesn't stop the ridiculous posts from him unfortunately though.

[xmojox]

There has been a "side debate" within this debate about whether or not blacks participate in more criminal activities. Some seem to choose to remain ignorant of certain facts, for whatever reason. Perhaps it is that one of the most dreaded things in today's society is to be called a racist. But I don't think telling it as it is, should be considered racist.., it is called being honest.


To find more facts, visit.., http://www.colorofcrime.com/colorofcrime2005.pdf

I omitted the stats that you posted for reason of brevity of the quote.

All of the stats come directly from The Color of Crime, a 27 page document written by Jared Taylor and published by The New Century Foundation. This organization is widely considered to be a white supremacist group, however, Taylor, the president of the organization says that they are, rather, a white seperatist group, believing in racial segregation.

You've stated that you aren't racist, and I've no reason to disbelieve that. I do, however, wonder if whether knowing the source of the document and statistics you've cited you lend them the same credence you did when you posted them.

[Harry Smith]

I'll withdraw the comment about the Guardian links - clearly that was a sarcastic personal attack that had no place in a polite debate.

Racism doesn't exist because a black person would not be prevented from what he wants by virtue of his colour - same for women/sexism. That has been my central point for the last 10 pages. Nothing has changed thus far, so nothing else to withdraw.

If you find it hard to move on Harry maybe you should just withdraw from the debate, you're not in school now and I'm not here to deal with your feelings. The debate has moved on - other points have been made and you're still 10 pages behind.

Now say something useful or go home.

I'm at home, I was just shocked that you posted that Racism doesn't exist, your actually trying to disregard Racism. Your deluded, out of date and quite frankly a racist yourself if you think that racism doesn't exist, black people are prevented from success everyday by the colour of there skin. Also as said above the reliablity of your sources is extremely low, there written by a white supremast group- any historian or analyst would rip that source apart straight away

Removed rude content ~Max

[Mirage]

Racism is most certainly NOT gone, as Gigablue stated above. I think both (and homophobia) are all important concerns and one is not more prevalent than the other. Just my two cents :)

[Celtic.]

I don't think anyone - ever - has said the worst thing about racism is that you might get shot

its not the WORST thing but its one of the BIGGEST things we have to deal with

[crepesuzette]

yeah well my teacher got mad when some people from mainland china was visiting our school. He was like,"What are they doing here? Their education is better than ours. They have a strong economy right now." I was just shocked to hear that coming from him. I never thought that he would be so racist.

[Allbutanillusion]

I do, however, wonder if whether knowing the source of the document and statistics you've cited you lend them the same credence you did when you posted them.



Well, yes, I think that it is a fair(notice I did not say good or great) gathering of the facts. You seem too eager to discredit anything you don't agree with. I looked at the references that they listed in the report and a lot of it comes from the F.B.I., newspaper articles and police reports.

I may not agree with with what their organization represents or what the original intention of this report was but never the less I highly doubt any organization that represents minorities is going print and admit crime statics if those statistics are going to reflect negatively on minorities. So if you are tying to collect information, sometimes you have to do a little more digging, and that may include obtaining it alternative sources other than what maybe more the norm.

[Harry Smith]

Well, yes, I think that it is a fair(notice I did not say good or great) gathering of the facts. You seem too eager to discredit anything you don't agree with. I looked at the references that they listed in the report and a lot of it comes from the F.B.I., newspaper articles and police reports.

I may not agree with with what their organization represents or what the original intention of this report was but never the less I highly doubt any organization that represents minorities is going print and admit crime statics if those statistics are going to reflect negatively on minorities. So if you are tying to collect information, sometimes you have to do a little more digging, and that may include obtaining it alternative sources other than what maybe more the norm.

This is common logic for nearly any source in an argument. The sources used by prodigy came from a white supremacist website, they are invalid. Also you can't just present sources, you have to have an actual thesis. Something you don't have

[xmojox]

Well, yes, I think that it is a fair(notice I did not say good or great) gathering of the facts. You seem too eager to discredit anything you don't agree with. I looked at the references that they listed in the report and a lot of it comes from the F.B.I., newspaper articles and police reports.

I may not agree with with what their organization represents or what the original intention of this report was but never the less I highly doubt any organization that represents minorities is going print and admit crime statics if those statistics are going to reflect negatively on minorities. So if you are tying to collect information, sometimes you have to do a little more digging, and that may include obtaining it alternative sources other than what maybe more the norm.

No I was honestly curious whether you were aware of that. The statistics i don't have a problem with. I have never disputed the statistics. Only the conclusion that those statistics mean that black people are genetically predisposed to be criminals as was suggested by another gentleman.

I agree with you. It's always best to have multiple source corroboration.

I apologize if I came off seeming antagonistic. That truly wasn't my intent.

[Prodigy17]

The sources used by prodigy came from a white supremacist website, they are invalid.

The only source I've used was the FBI - fbi.gov. As you may know they collate crime figures in the USA.

Please do one of 2 things
1/ find any post where I've used a white supremacist site as a source
2/ withdraw that remark

I look forward to your response :)

[Prodigy17]

I have never disputed the statistics. Only the conclusion that those statistics mean that black people are genetically predisposed to be criminals as was suggested by another gentleman.

Nothing wrong with disputing a conclusion but to do so you need 2 things
1/ A reason why you think the conslusion is wrong
2/ An alternative conclusion and reasons why you think it's (more)valid

Here's a reliable source for crime
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-43

Please explain why you think that despite comprising 10% of the population blacks
1/ make up 48% of arrests for murder
2/ make up 55% of arrests for robbery

As an intelligent man no doubt you're able to draw a clear, logical conclusion from these 2 facts - so what is your conclusion?

[Harry Smith]

The only source I've used was the FBI - fbi.gov. As you may know they collate crime figures in the USA.

Please do one of 2 things
1/ find any post where I've used a white supremacist site as a source
2/ withdraw that remark

I look forward to your response :)

Sorry, confused you with the other member who was using the source colour of crime.

I love how you come just for snipe aha. Hopefully now you can admit that you had absolutely no grounds to stand on

[Prodigy17]

Sorry, confused you with the other member who was using the source colour of crime.

I love how you come just for snipe aha. Hopefully now you can admit that you had absolutely no grounds to stand on

It should be obvious from my prior posts that I don't need a source to tell me what to think - I only use sources for facts then draw my own conclusion. I assume even you will credit me with the ability to form my own views.

Question for you: If you're not able to distinguish different people in a debate with less than 10 people invloved what makes you think you have the mental capacity to understand an issue as complex as racism?

[Harry Smith]

It should be obvious from my prior posts that I don't need a source to tell me what to think - I only use sources for facts then draw my own conclusion. I assume even you will credit me with the ability to form my own views.

Question for you: If you're not able to distinguish different people in a debate with less than 10 people invloved what makes you think you have the mental capacity to understand an issue as complex as racism?

I made an honest error, that was probably as a result of my fast typing speed and the fact that I didn't double check. The source was used by Allbutanillusion and another member quoted him to refer to that, I assumed he was quoting you without checking. Its called a mistake you arrogant prat.

Why the need to bash my 'mental capacity', I sense Ferrari syndrome. I've been to south Africa, I've seen my half my family leave due to the quota system. I've had other distant relatives killed in the troubles, I've done a paper on RFk and his role in civil rights movement.

I can't believe the person who denies racism is calling me stupid. Look in the mirror

[Prodigy17]

I made an honest error, that was probably as a result of my fast typing speed and the fact that I didn't double check. The source was used by Allbutanillusion and another member quoted him to refer to that, I assumed he was quoting you without checking. Its called a mistake you arrogant prat.

So the fact you make mistakes makes me an arrogant prat? Interesting leap of logic Harry. My leap of logic is you don't have the mental capacity to understand the debate or the points made. Who's logic is better?

Another question: From your understanding of my posts thus far do you really think I'd use a biased website as a source?

[Harry Smith]

So the fact you make mistakes makes me an arrogant prat? Interesting leap of logic Harry. My leap of logic is you don't have the mental capacity to understand the debate or the points made. Who's logic is better?

Another question: From your understanding of my posts thus far do you really think I'd use a biased website as a source?

You seem to launch attacks on my personal ability, almost as if your trying to discredit my answer. I have the mental capacity to debate it, look back at the thread. A majority of respected members have argued against you

I've been to south Africa, I've seen my half my family leave due to the quota system. I've had other distant relatives killed in the troubles, I've done a paper on RFk and his role in civil rights movement.

I understand racism. End of.

I have no idea what you will or would have done, the fact that you deny racism highlights your outspoken nature. I wouldn't put it past you to be honest.

Another Question.... How can you deny racism? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16438933

[Apollo.]

It should be obvious from my prior posts that I don't need a source to tell me what to think - I only use sources for facts then draw my own conclusion. I assume even you will credit me with the ability to form my own views.

Question for you: If you're not able to distinguish different people in a debate with less than 10 people invloved what makes you think you have the mental capacity to understand an issue as complex as racism?

*involved see we can all point out mistakes, don't try and make people look stupid even though its hilarious someone like you insulting someone's intelligence it
has no place on VT.

On another note, for fuck sake are you still going? Your views are fucking ridiculous just like your debating technique, I mean if you change the argument much more we will be talking about the whaling problem in Japan.

[xmojox]

Nothing wrong with disputing a conclusion but to do so you need 2 things
1/ A reason why you think the conslusion is wrong
2/ An alternative conclusion and reasons why you think it's (more)valid

Here's a reliable source for crime
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-43

Please explain why you think that despite comprising 10% of the population blacks
1/ make up 48% of arrests for murder
2/ make up 55% of arrests for robbery

As an intelligent man no doubt you're able to draw a clear, logical conclusion from these 2 facts - so what is your conclusion?

Did I speak to you? No, I don't believe I did. I'll thank you to do me the same courtesy.

[StoppingTime]

Another question: From your understanding of my posts thus far do you really think I'd use a biased website as a source?

Yes, seeing as you've denied racism, which is something the FBI doesn't do. Also, I'd love a reply to this. (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2195325&postcount=237)

[Prodigy17]

You seem to launch attacks on my personal ability

When you debate in public you personal ability becomes a factor Harry. I'm sure you're a nice guy but you do seem to have difficulties turning thoughts into a cohesive argument. You also like to insult anyone who disagrees with you. Insults don't change opinions.

Given that I have friends and family members who are gay I really hope you will quiet down because your bias and hatred is an awful advert for the gay population.

I have no idea what you will or would have done, the fact that you deny racism highlights your outspoken nature. I wouldn't put it past you to be honest.

Again this is where you need to think before you speak. You acknowledge my "outspoken nature" yet you still think I would need to quote views from a biased website. I have never done so. You assumed I have.

That again demonstrates your own bias.

[Harry Smith]

When you debate in public you personal ability becomes a factor Harry. I'm sure you're a nice guy but you do seem to have difficulties turning thoughts into a cohesive argument. You also like to insult anyone who disagrees with you. Insults don't change opinions.

Given that I have friends and family members who are gay I really hope you will quiet down because your bias and hatred is an awful advert for the gay population.



Again this is where you need to think before you speak. You acknowledge my "outspoken nature" yet you still think I would need to quote views from a biased website. I have never done so. You assumed I have.

That again demonstrates your own bias.

, I don't try and advertise for the gay population... You really need to be careful mate, remember when you tried to accuse me of gay thinking.

It was a mistake, from the bottom of my heart I apologize. Get over it.

As Nick/// Apollo very nicely put it I'm surprised you haven't mentioned whaling, you bring up everything but your own flawed views.

Also please Address Stopping time aswell

I understand Racism as I said before I've been to south Africa, I've seen my half my family leave due to the quota system. I've had other distant relatives killed in the troubles, I've done a paper on RFk and his role in civil rights movement. I'm not stupid

[Prodigy17]

Yes, seeing as you've denied racism, which is something the FBI doesn't do.

The FBI just reports figures - their job isn't to confirm/deny racism. One question though if you've looked at the FBI website their racial categories are these
white
black
american indian/alaskan
asian/pacific islander
Do you notice a category missing?

[StoppingTime]

The FBI just reports figures - their job isn't to confirm/deny racism. One question though if you've looked at the FBI website their racial categories are these
white
black
american indian/alaskan
asian/pacific islander
Do you notice a category missing?

No? Are those not the most common/populous races in the US?



Still, my other question, please.

[Prodigy17]

First, do you have multiple sources that actually confirm that fact?

Obviously - here's one
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-43

you can draw your own conclusions

[Harry Smith]

Obviously - here's one
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-43

you can draw your own conclusions

Does this justify your racism?

[StoppingTime]

Obviously - here's one
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-43

you can draw your own conclusions


How does this prove or disprove racism? It's just stats, as you said.


Does this justify your racism?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmbc4xFh2i1qaq3uu.gif

[Prodigy17]

No? Are those not the most common/populous races in the US?

Where are Hispanics/Latinos?

[Apollo.]

The FBI just reports figures - their job isn't to confirm/deny racism. One question though if you've looked at the FBI website their racial categories are these
white
black
american indian/alaskan
asian/pacific islander
Do you notice a category missing?

Come on to fuck!!!! Stop asking random fucking questions! Also please address Stoppingtime's earlier post as he has requested several times.

You say Harry has a problem turning thoughts into argument which I personally do not see, how about we address your ability to stay on topic and answer people when they address you?

[Prodigy17]

How does this prove or disprove racism? It's just stats, as you said.

It is just stats, that was my point.

Did you notice - as one example - the disparity in arrests vs population for murder?

[StoppingTime]

It is just stats, that was my point.

Did you notice - as one example - the disparity in arrests vs population for murder?

And my point is this - What "proof" can you show me that proves racism doesn't exist? Because you have yet to do so, while the other side has shown numerous articles.

[Harry Smith]

Where are Hispanics/Latinos?

What is your point? You can't just cough up stats without a basis.You debating skills are laughable I find it amazing that you haven't had more people confront you about your views mate, if you came within a mile of my house and stated that racism doesn't exist and sprout your facts about black commiting more crimes then I think that every single citizen would swiftly tell you to ' go back to the 1920's you deluded twat',

Wake up mate, I really hope that one day you'll be able to expand your views. Because I pity the fact that you can't see the injustice in the world. Your not going to get far in life if you try and believe that simply because of some one skin colour you can assume that they are less of a person. Now I know you'll see this and quote one sentence but please I'm reaching out... Open your eyes. I'll leave you with a Robert Kennedy quote about Injustice.

''Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, these ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.''

[Prodigy17]

Come on to fuck!!!! Stop asking random fucking questions! Also please address Stoppingtime's earlier post as he has requested several times.

Wake the fuck up dickhead - I've addressed him 2 posts up.

No offence :)

[StoppingTime]

No, Justin, you didn't. You have yet to show many any proof that racism is nonexistent - I'm not interested in stats.


And if you continue to shout insults, you'll be infracted, it's that simple. Don't do it again

[Prodigy17]

And my point is this - What "proof" can you show me that proves racism doesn't exist? Because you have yet to do so, while the other side has shown numerous articles.

This is nothing to with whether racism exists or not.

Out of interest why do you think blacks comprise 48% of arrests for murder but they're only 10% of the poplulation?

There must be some reason for that surely?

[Harry Smith]

This is nothing to with whether racism exists or not.

Out of interest why do you think blacks comprise 48% of arrests for murder but they're only 10% of the poplulation?

There must be some reason for that surely?

Once again Justin you spout out random facts.

Also in case you didn't notice...

What is your point? You can't just cough up stats without a basis.You debating skills are laughable I find it amazing that you haven't had more people confront you about your views mate, if you came within a mile of my house and stated that racism doesn't exist and sprout your facts about black commiting more crimes then I think that every single citizen would swiftly tell you to ' go back to the 1920's you deluded twat',

Wake up mate, I really hope that one day you'll be able to expand your views. Because I pity the fact that you can't see the injustice in the world. Your not going to get far in life if you try and believe that simply because of some one skin colour you can assume that they are less of a person. Now I know you'll see this and quote one sentence but please I'm reaching out... Open your eyes. I'll leave you with a Robert Kennedy quote about Injustice.

''Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, these ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.''

[Prodigy17]

What is your point? '

Two points
1/ do you know that Hispanics are a significant racial group in the USA?
2/ Assuming you do know that why are they not recognised as such by the FBI?

[StoppingTime]

This is nothing to with whether racism exists or not.

Out of interest why do you think blacks comprise 48% of arrests for murder but they're only 10% of the poplulation?

There must be some reason for that surely?

Surely, that has nothing to do with the question.


And if there's nothing to prove or disprove it (in your opinion), why continue posting?



Two points
1/ do you know that Hispanics are a significant racial group in the USA?
2/ Assuming you do know that why are they not recognised as such by the FBI?

This has nothing to do with the question of the thread.

[Harry Smith]

Two points
1/ do you know that Hispanics are a significant racial group in the USA?
2/ Assuming you do know that why are they not recognised as such by the FBI?

What does this have to do with it.... And ask the FBI. I don't know why they didn't write them down.

Also

.You debating skills are laughable I find it amazing that you haven't had more people confront you about your views mate, if you came within a mile of my house and stated that racism doesn't exist and sprout your facts about black commiting more crimes then I think that every single citizen would swiftly tell you to ' go back to the 1920's you deluded twat',

Wake up mate, I really hope that one day you'll be able to expand your views. Because I pity the fact that you can't see the injustice in the world. Your not going to get far in life if you try and believe that simply because of some one skin colour you can assume that they are less of a person. Now I know you'll see this and quote one sentence but please I'm reaching out... Open your eyes. I'll leave you with a Robert Kennedy quote about Injustice.

''Each time a person stands up for an ideal, or acts to improve the lot of others, or strikes out against injustice, he sends forth a tiny ripple of hope, and crossing each other from a million different centers of energy and daring, these ripples build a current that can sweep down the mightiest walls of oppression and resistance.''

[Apollo.]

This is nothing to with whether racism exists or not.

Out of interest why do you think blacks comprise 48% of arrests for murder but they're only 10% of the poplulation?

There must be some reason for that surely?

*population

Yes it fucking is! What's the thread title? Holy fuck do you have some sort of mental retardation we should know about? It would explain a lot! "No offence:)" sorry I couldn't resist.

As I have said before if you want to debate crime make a new thread! It's like your fucking five!

[Prodigy17]

Once again Justin you spout out random facts.

Do you think that fact was "random" to the victims of those murders?

I've asked several people the same question and never had an answer as yet - why is there that huge disparity.

Do you want to answer?

[Apollo.]

Do you think that fact was "random" to the victims of those murders?

I've asked several people the same question and never had an answer as yet - why is there that huge disparity.

Do you want to answer?

Earlier in the thread you said racist murders don't affect society at all so you have answered the question yourself, so hypocritical!

[Prodigy17]

*population!

I know I've won an argument when some person pops up and corrects my spelling mistake.

Question for you: Harry makes a serious error in his logic - he accused me of quoting from biased websites - and you don't even notice. I miss 1 letter out of a word and you see fit to point it out.

Why is that?

Earlier in the thread you said racist murders don't affect society at all so you have answered the question yourself, so hypocritical!

Nobody suggested the murders were racist.

Why do blacks commit more murders than whites?

[Apollo.]

I know I've won an argument when some person pops up and corrects my spelling mistake.

Question for you: Harry makes a serious error in his logic - he accused me of quoting from biased websites - and you don't even notice. I miss 1 letter out of a word and you see fit to point it out.

Why is that?

Your hilarious you haven't won anything unless there is an award for most deluded prick on vt.

Well because Harry isn't a monumental cunt, that's why.

Again stop creating strawman arguments if you want an answer about crime create a thread or PM me.

[Prodigy17]

Well because Harry isn't a monumental cunt, that's why.

Again stop creating strawman arguments if you want an answer about crime create a thread or PM me.

OK, so now we're getting somewhere.
1/ It's OK for you to insult me but not OK for me to insult you?
2/ It's OK for Harry to be thick but not me?

I've PM'd you re the murder rate - very interested to hear your answer.

I've also started a new thread re murder rates so you can post your answer there if you want.


Merged. ~StoppingTime

[Apollo.]

OK, so now we're getting somewhere.
1/ It's OK for you to insult me but not OK for me to insult you?
2/ It's OK for Harry to be thick but not me?

I've PM'd you re the murder rate - very interested to hear your answer.

Did I complain when you called me a dickhead?
Harry is not thick, you are thanks for accepting that.

[Harry Smith]

OK, so now we're getting somewhere.
1/ It's OK for you to insult me but not OK for me to insult you?
2/ It's OK for Harry to be thick but not me?

I've PM'd you re the murder rate - very interested to hear your answer.

I've also started a new thread re murder rates so you can post your answer there if you want.


Merged. ~StoppingTime

I'm not thick mate, don't make assumptions about me you jumped up turd.

1)You've ignored the fact that you think that racism doesn't exist

2)yes I made an honest mistake, stop obessing over it. I'm sorry I was wrong about one thing but I'm not the sick bastard who has been racist, sexist and homophobic. I know I'll get flak for this but so far justin.

-You've had a mod disagree with you and about 6 other members. How can you honestly reckon your winning?

So to conclude Your a racist who gets a kick out of trying to appear as some sort of Fascist on a teen Forum. Your obsessed with facts but you can't accept the fact your a racist.You ignore people posts, you deny racism and sexism without any evidence. Racism will get you nowhere in life. At first I thought you were just a bit strange but now I realized your a lost cause.

I'm done Justin, I hope someday you'll be able to mature and wake up to the reality of life

[DerBear]

I'd still say sexism, Racism is generally concentrated by either older generations or by immaturity that dies out by Adulthood.

Sexism is still more of a problem today as generally things as simple as equal pay still isn't happening across the board.

[xmojox]

I'd still say sexism, Racism is generally concentrated by either older generations or by immaturity that dies out by Adulthood.

Sexism is still more of a problem today as generally things as simple as equal pay still isn't happening across the board.

There's unequal pay along racial lines, as well, but men make more than women regardless of race. It's sad that we have any kind of discrimination in the 21st century.

[DerBear]

Its suprising but when I viewed unequal pay in comparison to race, I generally found it was more of a social class influence e.g. a poor up bringing and school work lead to a poor job, not so much that the person was a different race. In the UK Sexism is minor but you notice it more in the work place and earnings.

I think their is more of racial war in the USA that has sadly impacted on other things such as work pay and education etc.

[ImCoolBeans]

Of course racism is still an ongoing issue. The Civil Rights Movement was only 50 years ago, mind you. 50 years is not a very long time and the changes were not unanimously accepted, and still are not. It takes multiple generations for stereotypes like that to die out -- and we are not too far into the process. Racism as well as sexism have existed since the dawn of man and are not going to go away over night -- it's foolish to think that they would. Both have been deemed more "unacceptable" in recent years; but have been widely acceptable and present in almost every culture for as far back as the history books go. Does that make either one okay? No; but it should explain why both are still present social issues.

[randomnessqueen]

i think sexism has become more harmful.
but both are problems that need dealt with, and i dont think one should get more focus than the other

[Jay1]

men make more than women regardless of race. It's sad that we have any kind of discrimination in the 21st century.

It's sad the people think that way. The COO of Facebook is a woman who earns around $30m a year - that is more than 99% of men in the world.

She must not have been listening when somebody said men make more than women :)

[xmojox]

Sorry, but showing the exception doesn't invalidate the rule. Do your research.

[Jay1]

Very silly point of view.

So it's true that women earn less than men for an equal job - no doubt a female toll collector would earn less than a male toll collector. What should a woman do?
1/ say shit this world is so unfair I'm resigned to being poor
2/ prove that she's worth more than a man - as the Facebook COO obviously did.

If women can't do 2/ they deserve to earn less. That is life.

[Kevin Bacon]

I think while both are very big problems, today, sexism is the bigger problem. You've got people killing themselves and running away because they don't dare come out because of the homophobes around them, and its just ridiculous. I'm not saying racism isn't an issue, but sexism is.

[likemike]

In my opinion, sexism is a larger concern than racism today. By and large, racism is gone from today's society, but sexism (mostly against women) is widespread.

For example, of all the Fortune 500 companies, only 4.2% of their CEOs are women (21 of the 500 positions are held by women).

Open your eyes racism is subtle but its still there trust me i experience it every day and for you to say its gone from todays society is incredibly ignorant.:mad:

I think while both are very big problems, today, sexism is the bigger problem. You've got people killing themselves and running away because they don't dare come out because of the homophobes around them, and its just ridiculous. I'm not saying racism isn't an issue, but sexism is.

Being homo has nothing to do with sexism
By definition sexism is prejudice or discrimination based on gender not sexual orintation:yeah:

What's wrong with a racist joke?

That attitude is the reason racism is overlooked so much, you think its funny and that makes it ok. That hurts people and you have no idea.


-merged multiple posts. -Emerald Dream

[Jay1]

Open your eyes racism is subtle but its still there trust me i experience it every day and for you to say its gone from todays society is incredibly ignorant.:mad:

Would you be willing to expand on how you experience it?

Given most everyone else in this thread seems to be white/male it might be interesting to hear from somebody on the receiving end of racism.

[britishboy]

I'm from Germany and racism isn't a problem there anymore. Yea, a few people are still against other countries, but, these people are not much.
And sexicm...I think It's not as terrible as bullying ! Serious !

how on earth is Germany not raciat!?!?

anyway raciam isnt a problom in the uk nor is sexism yes men get paid more but thats cos most girls work as teachers and careers ext