tell me what you think (WARNING: religious content)

[Raistlin]

Now, I'm not gay myself, i've had the odd fantasy throughout puberty as every guy has, and I'm also very religious (christian). Many christians prosecute gays. I used to quite abit but ive come to a realisation: the bible only says thou shalt not sleep with a man as thou wouldst a woman. simple as that. For christians out there you all know god tests everyones faith differently and to different extents. I am starting to wonder, if gays dont have as many tests of faith because their main concern (religiously) is to not have gay sex. Not an impossible thing there are many people who die virgins in faith as they were never married so what do you guys think (as god probably dosnt care if you were gay (but im not god wouldnt know)) is that plausible to you? and for more religious folk do you think homosexuality was intended to be a test not only for gays but for straight people to still love them as your neighbour?

[Maverick]

My thinking is that you only live once so enjoy your life to the fullest. You can interpret many things in the Bible differently and what's right for one is wrong for the other. I think the Bible is the last thing to go to for trying to shed light on homosexuality. Denying yourself sex would be eliminating one of life's joys and since you only live once the oppurtunity for it won't happen again.

[ThatCanadianGuy]

No matter what you may believe, I don't think ANYONE should be judged according to their orientation, skin colour, etc. It's not up to US to judge; if you believe in God then it's HIS job to judge of course. Not us!

[byee]

Yeah, i agree here, we're all pretty much an open minded group.

I think that regardless of your orientation or religious convictions, it's important to remember that God did not write the Bible, and as far as I know, no one in recent times has spoken directly to the Almighty to find out what His thoughts and wishes on sexuality really are. And in spite of the self righteousness of *some* so called religious leaders, not even they really know what He wants.

For some, that ambiguity is an intolerable situation, a vacuum that must be filled, even if it is with the blind devotion to *those* who confuse their own self righteousness for true Righteousness. I kinda like the idea that as the 'Thinking species' we are in the unique position to interpret things in ways that make the most sense to us, to guide us, and help us be Better humans.

Until He makes his wishes known, I think we should practice a little tolerance and respect, even if we don't exactly agree with the lifestyle or behavior. It isn't hurting anyone.

[Trickster]

I feel God loves you no matter what and i heard that God thinks that it is disgusting not like a sin. "God loves all his children" and its true. Im not very religous but i do belive in God and that you going to Hell isnt on who you love but what you did. Isnt it true that God loves Black, white, and all those in between people? Well why wouldnt it be the same for you orientatrion Gay, Straight and all those caught in between. Kinda weird how they are so in twine. I belive God will love Love you no matter what as long as you love him.
Its good to find love no matter who its with so dont try to make yourself unhappy.
Its not better to marry someone you dont love and live up to expectation but it is better to be with someone you do love and live u to your OWN expectation.

[LateForTheSky]

I think if god exists its not our place to say what is right and what is wrong. I myself not beleiving in him enjoy myself to the fullest and lead a happy life not hurting anybody, If he exists as long as we are happy and dont hurt others then he will be okay with us. I think

[Dave]

I confessed i was gay (to a father), and he tell me this:

"There are many people who think that being gay is bad, and, even if God have make the man and woman to be together, His most wanted wish is to serve him with good heart and be happy"

I dooen'st matter if you are gay or not, the only thing God wants is that you can live happy

[Serenity]

I dooen'st matter if you are gay or not, the only thing God wants is that you can live happy

Not to mention the whole serving Him, dedicating your life to Him, following His commandments and whatnot, yes? Lol I'm not very familiar with any religion that says God just wants us to prance about doing whatever we so choose as long as it makes us feel good inside....

[Raistlin]

From a religious standpoint premarital sex (in general) is a very big sin

[deathvalley]

no you are all wrong God specifically says that homosexuality is an abomination before the lord and that he is disgusted by homos that is just what the bible says it may or may not be my opinion but it is the word of god.

[Maverick]

no you are all wrong God specifically says that homosexuality is an abomination before the lord and that he is disgusted by homos that is just what the bible says it may or may not be my opinion but it is the word of god.
That is a very exaggerated and rude way of putting it.

[Serenity]

That is a very exaggerated and rude way of putting it.

And has no support. Can you [deathvalley] back up what you said? No one's going to take your radical proclomations seriously otherwise.

[redcar]

no you are all wrong God specifically says that homosexuality is an abomination before the lord and that he is disgusted by homos that is just what the bible says it may or may not be my opinion but it is the word of god.
1. Please don't refer to anyone as a "homo" you have learned the English language I am sure you have it in you to muster up a better word than that. How about, now just a suggestion, a bit of respect?

2. If you come on here interpreting the word of the Lord like that be prepared to have it shot back right at you. Would you like me to go through your posts here and tell you what the good Lord thinks is wrong in what you do? No and I won't because I will show respect.

On these forums we show respect to all people. Now what you did was said something that has absolutly no backing up. An opinion is only right when you have you can back it up.

[Dave]

Like i say before, being gay is not bad, also, i think God makes us how we are right now

[ktkurbst0mp]

I am also a christian, and it angers me when people say "God hates gays"

Because he doesn't.
God doesn't hate his children.

a man sleeping with a man is a sin.
so is lying.

without the blood of jesus covering those sins God can't look upon a liar OR a gay man/woman.

So, I have no problem with homosexuality.
Just like I don't condemn people for lying, or any other sin.
People need to calm down.

God also said thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife.
Then why aren't there picket signs out everywhere saying "God hates flavor flav" or crap like that.


It just gets me so irritated.

[Serenity]

I am also a christian, and it angers me when people say "God hates gays"

Because he doesn't.
God doesn't hate his children.

a man sleeping with a man is a sin.
so is lying.

without the blood of jesus covering those sins God can't look upon a liar OR a gay man/woman.

So, I have no problem with homosexuality.
Just like I don't condemn people for lying, or any other sin.
People need to calm down.

God also said thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife.
Then why aren't there picket signs out everywhere saying "God hates flavor flav" or crap like that.


It just gets me so irritated.

A-freaking-men sister.

[A.J.]

Yeah 'God' didnt write the bible. some guy who thought he was so wise did. he probably put his own predgadice into the word. Im sure that if God loves everyone like christian says he do, why would he single out gays? he made them that way right? Gays should never feel ashamed or evil for being who they are

[Serenity]

Yeah 'God' didnt write the bible. some guy who thought he was so wise did. he probably put his own predgadice into the word. Im sure that if God loves everyone like christian says he do, why would he single out gays? he made them that way right? Gays should never feel ashamed or evil for being who they are

Yeah ok 'some guy' didn't write the Bible. A LOT of 'guys' wrote the Bible. You are just screaming ignorance in that post...*twitch*

[xTheLordsServantx]

Now, I'm not gay myself, i've had the odd fantasy throughout puberty as every guy has, and I'm also very religious (christian). Many christians prosecute gays. I used to quite abit but ive come to a realisation: the bible only says thou shalt not sleep with a man as thou wouldst a woman. simple as that. For christians out there you all know god tests everyones faith differently and to different extents. I am starting to wonder, if gays dont have as many tests of faith because their main concern (religiously) is to not have gay sex. Not an impossible thing there are many people who die virgins in faith as they were never married so what do you guys think (as god probably dosnt care if you were gay (but im not god wouldnt know)) is that plausible to you? and for more religious folk do you think homosexuality was intended to be a test not only for gays but for straight people to still love them as your neighbour?

I'm glad you are questioning yourself and you definately came to the right place for answers! First, the whole homosexual thing is really not as big of a deal as some Christians make it out to be. The Bible tells us that it is a sin, just like lying, swearing, and doing several other things are sins. In my opinion, the Bible is supposed to be something that we use to guide our lives, not try to make our lives into it. If we really look at the Bible, we'll see that the whole idea of Christianity is not criticizing every part of our lives, but establishing a relationship with the Lord and respecting Him. The Bible, several times, tells us that it is most important to believe in God and Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior, but is summed up pretty much in Hebrews 11:6 ~ “But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.” Faith is the most important aspect of Christianity, so what that means is that if you truly love and respect God and have a relationship with Him, then you only need to use the Bible as a tool to guide your life. Don't you think that if God wanted us to use the Bible only, it would be a lot less flawed? God wants a relationship with all of us, and unfortunately, thats what a lot of people don't really understand...So, all in all, no its NOT OK to sin,but we all do it and that's not what really matters as much as your relationship with God!

no you are all wrong God specifically says that homosexuality is an abomination before the lord and that he is disgusted by homos that is just what the bible says it may or may not be my opinion but it is the word of god.

While you are somewhat right, I think you are saying this the wrong way. First off, it does not say anywhere that God is disgusted by anyone - but rather the opposite: the Bible tells us that God loves every one of us equally, no matter how sinful we are. Second, the Bible and Christianity preach love and kindness instead of hatred and comdenation, as many "Christians" in our modern-day go around speading...God is not some evil man who just sends people to hell because he can, but rather a loving and forgiving father who only wants us to love Him as much as He loves us, no matter if we're gay, straight, black, white, male or female!

I am also a christian, and it angers me when people say "God hates gays"

Because he doesn't.
God doesn't hate his children.

a man sleeping with a man is a sin.
so is lying.

without the blood of jesus covering those sins God can't look upon a liar OR a gay man/woman.

So, I have no problem with homosexuality.
Just like I don't condemn people for lying, or any other sin.
People need to calm down.

God also said thou shalt not covet thy neighbors wife.
Then why aren't there picket signs out everywhere saying "God hates flavor flav" or crap like that.


It just gets me so irritated.

I agree, it is sad how people focus on one sin, but simply overlook others. For example, many "Christians" say that homosexuality is so bad, but then they go around lying, talking behind peoples' backs, having premarital sex, and other stuff. Its sad because as Christians, we are not supposed to judge (Matthew 7:1-6). What I'm getting at is that homosexuality is just the same as any other sinful act, and that GOD FORGIVES, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS ASK! And, for those people who cannot come to the realization that what they do is sinful, I'm sorry, but you have to overcome the denial and we all have to see that we are sinful and need to ask the Lord for forgiveness.

God Bless you all on this day of the Christ Child

[ktkurbst0mp]

I'm glad not everyone has gotten caught up in the condemnations of the world.
Gah.

[ideasman]

Now, I'm not gay myself, i've had the odd fantasy throughout puberty as every guy has, and I'm also very religious (christian). Many christians prosecute gays. I used to quite abit but ive come to a realisation: the bible only says thou shalt not sleep with a man as thou wouldst a woman. simple as that. For christians out there you all know god tests everyones faith differently and to different extents. I am starting to wonder, if gays dont have as many tests of faith because their main concern (religiously) is to not have gay sex. Not an impossible thing there are many people who die virgins in faith as they were never married so what do you guys think (as god probably dosnt care if you were gay (but im not god wouldnt know)) is that plausible to you? and for more religious folk do you think homosexuality was intended to be a test not only for gays but for straight people to still love them as your neighbour?



I dont know specifically where to go with this..it is a fairly sticky situation..
There are many beliefs that i do hold myself as a gay teen that many in this forum may not agree with, but then again forums are meant so different people can air their opinions without persecution..
As i am a gay teen, i used to be fairly religious before i came to the relisation that i couldn't choose my sexuality and in order to be healthy (mentally) i needed to face the fact and come out with it.. So now i do consider myself agnostic which means we do believe in a higher power, but more so the science of the world *(no not scientology) but evoltuion etc..
I was born and raised christian, however now that i believe im old enough to pick my own faith, i choose not to follow a god who would judge me and be unforgiving toward me for something that i haven't chosen as a life choice..
And you said that many people die as virgins as a sign of faith? But i would never choose that life for myself. I know that the higher power that i believe in (whether it be god, ala or whatever) would want me to live this life and be happy. I mean who knows? There very well may be an afterlife whether it be re-incarnation or heaven & hell, but what if there wasn't? And you half lived your life on earth..how bummed would you be?
Everyone should love and accept eachother, because for those that believe gay people choose to be that way, they are so dead wrong its laughable. Lets face it, being gay is HARD! Trying to find your partner is difficult, trying to find love in a world where you cant hold your loves hand in some places for fear of being abused (both verbally and physically)..i mean who would choose that for themselves.? Love thy neighbour, it aint there fault ;)
Sex is like oxygen and food, its a part of life that needs to be experienced to feels completed and content with oneself..
And because im a teen, because of my raging hormones and my constant sexual arousal, sex seems that much more important than oxygen and food :P

[ktkurbst0mp]

I was born and raised christian, however now that i believe im old enough to pick my own faith, i choose not to follow a god who would judge me and be unforgiving toward me for something that i haven't chosen as a life choice..

I have to disagree. If you read my earlier post, you'd see what I meant.

God doesn't weigh sin. He cannot look upon it. Not a gay person, not a liar, not a murderer, not someone who's commited adultary. He can't look upon any of them.
And NONE of them would be going to heaven, but as christians, we believe that Jesus was the messiah, and died on the cross for our sins.

So, if you are gay, and still chose to follow Christ, you would still go to heaven, and he would forgive you.

Though, I admire your courage to step out on your own and find your own faith.
I just thought I'd let you in on what I thought. :)

I confessed i was gay (to a father), and he tell me this:

"There are many people who think that being gay is bad, and, even if God have make the man and woman to be together, His most wanted wish is to serve him with good heart and be happy"

I dooen'st matter if you are gay or not, the only thing God wants is that you can live happy



I admire your father, I know I read this late. But I do.
I think it takes a wise, and very courageous person to say something like that, and to be accepting to their sons especially, when coming out.

you're lucky to have him :)

[ideasman]

So, if you are gay, and still chose to follow Christ, you would still go to heaven, and he would forgive you.

I think i may have mis-phrased the point i was trying to make. Even the word 'forgiveness' weighs heavily on me, because that would imply that i had something to be sorry about. I dont tend to, i guess, "appologise to god, because i refuse to be sorry for who i am..:cool:

:) but thank you

[Serenity]

KT, please don't double post.

[ktkurbst0mp]

I think i may have mis-phrased the point i was trying to make. Even the word 'forgiveness' weighs heavily on me, because that would imply that i had something to be sorry about. I dont tend to, i guess, "appologise to god, because i refuse to be sorry for who i am..:cool:

:) but thank you

Okay, I see what you mean.

And here is another thing.


I think that God made us, to fellowship with him. Not just to abide by all of his rules.
If you truely love God, accepted Jesus in your heart, and meant it, you're going to heaven, and there's nothing that can stop you. Especially not your gender preference. :)

[ideasman]

Okay, I see what you mean.

And here is another thing.


I think that God made us, to fellowship with him. Not just to abide by all of his rules.
If you truely love God, accepted Jesus in your heart, and meant it, you're going to heaven, and there's nothing that can stop you. Especially not your gender preference. :)


Valid Point..but its not only the bibles views on homosexuality that have made me want to search for a different faith. There are many other factors which i wont go into because they would be straying from the topic.. But cheers ;)
Maybe this thread should be 'locked'? I think everyone has put their two cents worth :P

[normanford]

personally i dont believe in god, but then there's the point that he loves us, right? wouldn't it make sense that if we are happy, then he's happy?
i mean, this could turn out like the greek gods: immortal gods messing around with the little mortals for entertainment

[crash007]

no you are all wrong God specifically says that homosexuality is an abomination before the lord and that he is disgusted by homos that is just what the bible says it may or may not be my opinion but it is the word of god.

Thats totally false. God didn't write the bible so he cant specifically say anything. And I dont think god would use the term "homos". and tell me where in the bible it says that.

[apz4]

----

[Maverick]

This may be hard for some people to understand, but God did write the bible.
So did the Bible descend from heavan itself for everyone to see?

[byee]

Let me put a different spin on this topic, if I might. What if God has nothing at all to do with this? Why must the Almighty be quoted to justify a belief (for or against) something or, perhaps more to the point, some ONE? Is your interpretation of the Bible, is your understanding of God, such that you really see Him as wanting you to use Him to justify attitudes, beliefs, or behaviors that are truly antithetical to His word? No one really knows what He wants. That what 'Faith' means, you must interpret for yourself what He wants.

Listen, it's a free country, and Lord knows a lot of really spooky things have been justified (twisted?) throughout history in the name of both Freedom and God. And although you're entitled to your own views/values/behaviors/idiosynchrasies, why do *some* feel they have the added entitlement to impose those beliefs on everyone else?

OK, so much for the rant. But, I think these topics about 'God and Homosexuality' come from those who struggle with it, and somehow want some kind of absolution.

I think this overlooks a very important point, though. No one chooses their sexuality, be it gay or straight. We are who we are, we don't wake up and make a choice, it's not like choosing Corn Flakes over Cheerios. Why should people be tormented, why should they be humiliated, why should they be denied the same rights and decencies as the rest of us? Especially in (my God) the name of God.

Written as a straight guy, I think it's important to 'practice what we preach', that people need to be judged on those things they have control over. Not things that are, by all accounts, irrelevant. If God doesn't want people to be gay, it's His responsibility to address that. Not anyone elses.

*steps down off of soap box to loud cheers from the crowd of delegates*

[raptor]

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man - and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them."

[byee]

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man - and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them."

Proving once again, that if we all took the Word literally, we'd all be blind and toothless.

[apz4]

----

[raptor]

"Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness"

The point I was trying to make is that sinful desires (such as homosexual desires) are a result of sin.

[apz4]

"Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness"

The point I was trying to make is that sinful desires (such as homosexual desires) are a result of sin.

Spot on, and to reinforce God's stance on homosexuality:

"Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

[byee]

You know, being straight I'm not trying to defend myself. I just find it so odd that *you guys* need to drag the Lord into this. What's the problem with accepting that there are some people out there that are different?

I don't get the point in dragging God into the argument, to justify discrimination based on some convienent passage from a Book that unknowns wrote before the advent of Reason and Enlightenment. God did not write the Bible, no one has ever heard His voice, there was no dictation, no one has ever interviewed Him.

Maybe it's time to acknowledge that others have the same basic rights that are given to you, and let's allow the Good Lord to have the sole Authority to pass judgement at the appropriate time.

[apz4]

----

[LateForTheSky]

I have a question Why? Why would god not like same sex relationships? God wants us to be happpy, yes? God dosnt want us to hurt others, yes? Now what part of homosexuality exactly conflicts with this?

It is my suspision that those who wrote the bible, dont forget 2000! YEARS AGO! may have their own interpratation of the word of the lord. Not to mention the idea of Jesus being the messiah is just ludicrous in my opinion. People where easier to convince then and where not nearly as intelegent as they are now, therefore meaning that it may all be a lie. But then again you gotta have faith, the virgin mary? I mean common, not going physicaly happen. God may own our souls but he can't make somone pregnant, my life is not a game of chess.

But back to my point, there is no reason god would hate homosexuals, there is no explaination just that its 'abnormal' aparently.

For me religion has to many holes in it and they are becoming more apparent as time goes by and after discovering evolution, religion is now saying that the two go hand in hand. which they do but what happens when they prove, if they prove that jesus was not the son of god? I think christianity would be buggared then. Physicaly its not possible, I don't believe that god controls us.

My idea of what happened in our universe:

Big bang, universe formed, a small life form evolved from plants, that small life breeded and evolved until we are the way we are today. All a chemical reaction, the question that i want answered now is, "What caued the big bang?" a chemical reaction i think but what was there before. So if you think about that then why would god even know we exist assuming he exists himself.

[Serenity]

So if you think about that then why would god even know we exist assuming he exists himself.

Because God was the one who created us, and the universe you seem to worship in His stead, in the first place.

[apz4]

----

[byee]

Humans don't have the capacity to understand God or the concept of where God came from and how everything started.
God doesn't hate homosexuals, he loves everyone but he doesn't want homosexual behavior to exist as it is to protect us. There's no childbirth between a homosexual couple and when you have two horny men, all they want to do is have sex. I'm sure that if men had it their way, they would be having sex with their wives every night. But women bring and emotional half to the relationship which is programmed into them. Without this emotional addition, the relationship breaks down. This emotional half is vital to the sustainment of a relationship.
There is also the fact that we weren't made to have sex with the same gender. Isn't that proof enough that God doesn't want homosexual relationships? Homosexual sex is very unnatural: a great deal of lubricant is needed, it's dangerous and from what I've read, hurts.
God didn't want sex outside of marriage as it leads to STIs. Sex is a very emotional thing, and there can be huge emotional consequences when a sexual relationship breaks up.


I'm not sure where you get this stuff, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense (and remember, I'm not gay so I don't have a particular axe to grind here). If God made man, and he was against ANY type of man, why would he then create things he finds repulsive?

If humans do not have the capacity to understand God or the concept of where God came from, how can we logically believe he exists? Don't those premises invalidate your whole argument, and entire belief system? Aren't your judgements then based purely on myth? How can you acknowledge the unknowability of an Almighty Being, but then accept those teachings? Aren't you really passing judgement on something based on your own opinion (or the opinions of other mortals) and then using the Bible and Him to justify those beliefs?

I'm not trying to be provocative, but it seems as if you're trying to justify your attitudes with a set of principles that are deeply flawed. Faith is about belief, what you feel in your heart and soul to be 'True'. From that comes a set of principles and values that guide behavior. You're taking it a step too far by assuming that your interpretation is the only correct and acceptable one, that your values are the only ones Worthy. That's not only incorrect, it's offensive as well. With Faith, there's no way to know for sure what's 'Right'. It's what's 'Right' for the individual.

I think it's important to recognize that others might have a differing interpretation of values, and that those values, no matter how repugnant to you they might be, are no less valid for that individual than yours are to you (assuming we're talking about victimless issues, like homosexuality).

I'd also encourage you to look at some of your other attitudes, maybe starting with your conceptions of what men and women bring into relationships and what they're good at. It might be more comforting for you now to view life in very dogmatic ways, with things fitting neatly into black and white, this or that categories, but I think you'll find that modern life is far too complex for that, and that you'll be limiting your experience.

And, as i said previously, maybe it's best to leave the Final Judgement to Him. Until then, it seems reasonable to believe in private what works for you, and to respect others beliefs, too.

[apz4]

----

[byee]

It sure sounds like a judgement. I'm not aware that the Bible entitles man to do that.

I'm not opposed to your viewpoints, and I don't find them offensive in the least. I just don't agree with them, not because of a particular religious affinity, but because my own conception of God is very different than yours.

What I DO find offensive is this sense of entitlement and holier than thou attitude that accompanies what I believe is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Word. As I've said, part of being open minded and flexible is an acceptance of the right of others to believe what they wish. It's the imposition of that belief on others that I find offensive and inappropriate. This isn't just about the topic of homosexuality, but other 'social' or 'values' issues as well. I'm not sure what entitles *some* to impose their beliefs on others thru judgement, and in some cases, actual law. Especially since no one really knows what He wants, anyway.

I'm not going to continue to discuss this further, as I believe that I've stated my concerns clearly. One of the difficult things about trying to discuss issues with the self righteous is their utter refusal to acknowledge any viewpoints other than their own. I think that's unfortunate, but I'm willing to accept that. It's unfortunate, though, that your side is not only unwilling to offer the same courtesy, but to also recognize that they have no business imposing their sense of things on others who might not share their understandings.

[Goth_ben]

I feel God loves you no matter what and i heard that God thinks that it is disgusting not like a sin. "God loves all his children" and its true. Im not very religous but i do belive in God and that you going to Hell isnt on who you love but what you did. Isnt it true that God loves Black, white, and all those in between people? Well why wouldnt it be the same for you orientatrion Gay, Straight and all those caught in between. Kinda weird how they are so in twine. I belive God will love Love you no matter what as long as you love him.
Its good to find love no matter who its with so dont try to make yourself unhappy.
Its not better to marry someone you dont love and live up to expectation but it is better to be with someone you do love and live u to your OWN expectation.

well said

[jma94]

I'm not one of those really religous people but yes, i believe in god and some things in the bible. But not all things. I personally thing that its all in how you interpritate it. If you think its wrong then thats that. Same if you think its right. I dont think god would punish you for loving a man rather than a woman.