Reasons why the Pledge of Allegiance is Bull****

[Armor_King]

1.It Is Not a Pledge.

In all American Public Schools, the pledge is recited every single day for all 13 years of attendance. A pledge is defined as "a solemn promise or agreement to do or refrain from doing something". Now how many times have you promised to do something for someone, and repeated the promise to them every day? In a real pledge, you would only say it once or only repeat it every year at most. And who are you pledging to exactly? A flag.

2.It is fascist bullshit.

http://www.thisistrue.com/images/pledge_salute.jpg
This is from before the original gesture was changed during World War II. The fact is, American children were doing the Nazi salute before the Nazis existed.
Italian facists and Nazi's actually stole this from America and started using it. It is now a simple "hand on your heart", yet it's meaning is the same as before.

3.Written by a Socialist, and "Under God" was added over 50 years after.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist, and it originally never mentioned God. Why would a secular country who's constitution prohibits an official state religion have the Christian God in it's official Pledge? Because the Pledge of Allegiance is as un-american as you can get. Any person who values "liberty and justice for all" would not recite this garbage every school day (roughly 2300 times.)

Most Americans would generally be surprised to hear this information, but they remain ignorant.

Now when someone asks you why you don't stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, you can tell them. :yes:

[workingatperfect]

Well, first of all, the flag is a symbol. Something that represents something else. It represents the country. So you're pledging loyalty to your country.

Second, who cares that the Nazis stole that from us? They also took the swastika which was original a good symbol. That doesn't mean the the swastika has always been something bad, and neither has that gesture. Otherwise, we wouldn't have changed it.

And finally. This is actually a somewhat good point. Well, the religion part. The socialist part doesn't matter much. Socialism isn't actually as bad as everyone thinks it is, because so many people associate it so closely with communism. The basic premise of socialism is you get what you earn based on how hard you work.
As for the religion part, I do not agree with it. But the fact of the matter is, our country is built on christian policies. There's stuff about God everywhere in our country.

You don't have to say the pledge is you don't want to. Your school can't force you, and if they do, you have your freedom of religion backing you up.

Also, a lot of prayers that people say on a daily basis contain a simple pledge to God. So some pledges are said every day.

[Armor_King]

Pledging to a country is nationalistic and pointless. You are pledging to the flag, and the republic for which it stands.

I have been forced to stand for the pledge many times, once getting a detention. I know it is technically against the law, but you alone are powerless if your parents don't agree as well. My parents wouldn't do anything about it and actually agreed with my teacher.

[workingatperfect]

Of course it's nationalistic. Are you just realizing that American is incredibly nationalistic? And yeah, you're pledging your loyalty to your country, I don't see what the big deal is.

And if you choose not to fight it more, that's your own problem. Go to the principal, counselor, the board of education, whatever. It's not like they can argue if you say that the God part is against your religion, therefore, you can't say the pledge. And if you don't feel like doing that, but you still don't want to say it, don't say it. Stand up, leave your arm down and stay quiet.

[Zenos]

Pledging to a country is nationalistic and pointless. You are pledging to the flag, and the republic for which it stands.

I have been forced to stand for the pledge many times, once getting a detention. I know it is technically against the law, but you alone are powerless if your parents don't agree as well. My parents wouldn't do anything about it and actually agreed with my teacher.



1) the Nazi's did not steal that salute from us,It was used by the Roman Legions,the way we use the modern salute in the military,thats where they got it from.

2) Pledging to a country is nationalistic and pointless? You sound like a internationalist/globalist that thinks all nations should be merged into one Global Government! If you don't like America when you are old enough get out!

[Kyyle]

i bet you eat BBQ Bald Eagle for dinner. if you don't want to say it then don't say it but calm down before you have a stroke

[Zenos]

i bet you eat BBQ Bald Eagle for dinner. if you don't want to say it then don't say it but calm down before you have a stroke



:D lol

But it is sad that todays teens think that pariotism and loyalty to their nation is stupid and wrong.

Looks like all the politicians spouting globalism,internationalism and such since the for the last 20 odd years have done their job created a generation that for the most part does not care about their nation and would roll over without so much as a whimper as if America was to be abosrbed into somesort of Global Nation!


We are really letting down the Founding fathers and their hopes and dreams they had for us!

[StoppingTime]

:biggrin2: lol

But it is sad that todays teens think that pariotism and loyalty to their nation is stupid and wrong.

Looks like all the politicians spouting globalism,internationalism and such since the for the last 20 odd years have done their job created a generation that for the most part does not care about their nation and would roll over without so much as a whimper as if America was to be abosrbed into somesort of Global Nation!


We are really letting down the Founding fathers and their hopes and dreams they had for us!

>Doesn't like/say the Pledge
>America will be absorbed into a global nation.


You need to stop with this,It really makes no sense in this argument.


If you think saying a poem to a flag is patriotic, you're so incredibly wrong. It's false, blind patrionism. People think they show "love" for a country by saying a pledge to a flag. I can almost guarentee it's the opposite of what the Fathers wanted.

_____________


I dislike the pledge. It's really just a (pointless) poem.
Let's take a look at it:

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.It's basically a short poem saying you pledge to the US flag and what it stands for. But do you really? Do you really pledge (to agree) with all America is and stands for? Should you? Should you be forced to do this every morning? That really seems like the opposite of liberty and freedom and whatever other bullshit words you want to use.

Oh, and this:

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/22149030.jpg

[Skyline]

I say the pledge in respect, but I skip the under god part...

[Guillermo]

When my school used to recite it last year, they couldn't make everyone say it. It breaks the rule of secularism within public schools. The 'under God' part. And this makes sense.

Of course it's nationalistic. Are you just realizing that American is incredibly nationalistic?

If you want to see an incredibly nationalistic country, go to Japan. They don't care for immigrants because they don't want them to kill their culture. As a result, almost 99% of people in Japan are pure Japanese.

I will say this, though: too much blind nationalism can lead to total ignorance and arrogance for other countries and people. It can ultimately lead to other countries disliking this country. Is that really needed when in today's world every country is so globally interlocked and dependent on each other for resources and goods?

[Zenos]

>Doesn't like/say the Pledge
>America will be absorbed into a global nation.


You need to stop with this,It really makes no sense in this argument.


If you think saying a poem to a flag is patriotic, you're so incredibly wrong. It's false, blind patrionism. People think they show "love" for a country by saying a pledge to a flag. I can almost guarentee it's the opposite of what the Fathers wanted.

_____________


I dislike the pledge. It's really just a (pointless) poem.
Let's take a look at it:

It's basically a short poem saying you pledge to the US flag and what it stands for. But do you really? Do you really pledge (to agree) with all America is and stands for? Should you? Should you be forced to do this every morning? That really seems like the opposite of liberty and freedom and whatever other bullshit words you want to use.

Oh, and this:

image (http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/22149030.jpg)



Again you have no understanding of what i am saying !You need to stop with this replying when you are not grasping the full meaning of what I am trying to say!:rolleyes:

[StoppingTime]

Again you have no understanding of what i am saying !You need to stop with this replying when you are not grasping the full meaning of what I am trying to say!:rolleyes:


Then I'd love it if you could clear it up, instead of just using words like "globalization" and whatnot. That has no direct relation to the pledge.

[Zenos]

I say the pledge in respect, but I skip the under god part...


I leave God is simply because,the God "You" or rrefering to does not have to be the Christian God,it could be one of many Pagan Deities,of if you follow the writings of Anton LaVey it could be yourself you are refering to when you say God,asy people who follow his writings believe they are their own GOD!

Then I'd love it if you could clear it up, instead of just using words like "globalization" and whatnot. That has no direct relation to the pledge.


:rolleyes: I never said it had any relation to the pledge I have noooo idea where you got that at,but that people like the guy whining about the Pledge and patriotism and loyalty to ones nation as being stupid are the brainwashed types that would jump for fricken joy if for example the world did unify and America joined right in and gave up it's rights as a soverigen nation,and was merely a "State" in a Global Nation,and in the process gave up and betrayed everything the Founder Fathers and those who followed them and believed in and fought and shed blood for their Ideals,dreams and aspirations not merely for themselves but for ALL future generations of Americans!

Thats what i'm talking about but either you can see that are you just wanna bicker:rolleyes:

Merged double post. -Gigablue

[Sugaree]

1.It Is Not a Pledge.

In all American Public Schools, the pledge is recited every single day for all 13 years of attendance. A pledge is defined as "a solemn promise or agreement to do or refrain from doing something". Now how many times have you promised to do something for someone, and repeated the promise to them every day? In a real pledge, you would only say it once or only repeat it every year at most. And who are you pledging to exactly? A flag.

2.It is fascist bullshit.

image (http://www.thisistrue.com/images/pledge_salute.jpg)
This is from before the original gesture was changed during World War II. The fact is, American children were doing the Nazi salute before the Nazis existed.
Italian facists and Nazi's actually stole this from America and started using it. It is now a simple "hand on your heart", yet it's meaning is the same as before.

3.Written by a Socialist, and "Under God" was added over 50 years after.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist, and it originally never mentioned God. Why would a secular country who's constitution prohibits an official state religion have the Christian God in it's official Pledge? Because the Pledge of Allegiance is as un-american as you can get. Any person who values "liberty and justice for all" would not recite this garbage every school day (roughly 2300 times.)

Most Americans would generally be surprised to hear this information, but they remain ignorant.

Now when someone asks you why you don't stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, you can tell them. :yes:

All the edginess in this post. Holy shit.

[Skyline]

[QUOTE=Zenos;2114426]I leave God is simply because,the God "You" or rrefering to does not have to be the Christian God,it could be one of many Pagan Deities,of if you follow the writings of Anton LaVey it could be yourself you are refering to when you say God,asy people who follow his writings believe they are their own GOD![QUOTE]

But I am an Atheist and find that having to say the word God is offensive, I do not think of myself as my own god, I am a person thats it...

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=Zenos;2114426]I leave God is simply because,the God "You" or rrefering to does not have to be the Christian God,it could be one of many Pagan Deities,of if you follow the writings of Anton LaVey it could be yourself you are refering to when you say God,asy people who follow his writings believe they are their own GOD![QUOTE]

But I am an Atheist and find that having to say the word God is offensive, I do not think of myself as my own god, I am a person thats it...

Dude people who follow that Crock version of satanism started by Anton LaVey are athiests they don';t believe in a god or a satan.they worship themsleves.

But then i can see where you are coming from,just ya know skip the part about God thats the logical thing to do.

I'm driving myself crazy with the word logical:cool:

[InfinantSilence]

We never say the plege . I go to a public high school. In America .

[Sugaree]

But I am an Atheist and find that having to say the word God is offensive, I do not think of myself as my own god, I am a person thats it...

If saying the word "God" offends you, you're a pretty weak atheist.


Dude people who follow that Crock version of satanism started by Anton LaVey are athiests they don';t believe in a god or a satan.they worship themsleves.

But then i can see where you are coming from,just ya know skip the part about God thats the logical thing to do.

I'm driving myself crazy with the word logical:cool:

You're wrong. Satanists believe in God and Satan, but they choose to worship Satan. They aren't atheists, because atheism is the lack of a belief in God or higher power. From what I understand, Satanism of the LaVey persuasion is simply respecting others if they show respect to you and to take care of yourself before others. So you're only half right.

[Kyyle]

at least the pledge is voluntary. in Arizona they are trying to make a law that would require Arizona students to recite a loyalty oath to the U.S. and its Constitution before they can graduate high school. House Bill 2467 If passed, it would make the loyalty oath a prerequisite for graduation from any public high school in Arizona starting with the 2013-14 school year.

Students would be required to say:

I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose or evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge these duties; so help me God.

even the "so help me God" part is part of the required oath you have to say if you want to graduate from high school. i didn't think they could force you to do stuff like that but according to this law they can if it passes.

[TheBigUnit]

the pledge offends you so much that you need to rant about it???? the pledge in general was made along with the fact to increase patriotism amongst ourselves but in our world today its all too much or too little, too much patriotism until you become a fanatic or too little patriotism and you need to rant about a 15 recital that majority of kids dont even care about

[Coolboi]

I say it everyday and I'm proud to say the pledge of allegiance to the country an our flag . Our country is made up of all nationalities of the world . Welcome to America land of the brave an home of the free . so if you don't like our pledge go home an stay there ! I'm proud to be an American :usflag:

[Jess]

I stopped saying the pledge completely when I started high school. If I ever say it, I skip the under God part. I still stand up whenever the pledge is spoken, but I never say it...

[Skyline]

If saying the word "God" offends you, you're a pretty weak atheist.

Its not saying God I have no problem saying it. Its when I'm forced to say it and when I don't then suddenly I'm anti-American.

[Sugaree]

Its not saying God I have no problem saying it. Its when I'm forced to say it and when I don't then suddenly I'm anti-American.

So imagine how Buddhists like me feel. I don't believe in God, yet I still skip that part of the pledge. No one is forcing you to say the word "God"; they're just forcing you to talk to a flag.

[Zenos]

If saying the word "God" offends you, you're a pretty weak atheist.



You're wrong. Satanists believe in God and Satan, but they choose to worship Satan. They aren't atheists, because atheism is the lack of a belief in God or higher power. From what I understand, Satanism of the LaVey persuasion is simply respecting others if they show respect to you and to take care of yourself before others. So you're only half right.


I'm not taking what is called theistic or traditional or even spiritual satanist they are the ones that believe in a literal Satan.

I'm talking the ones that follow the writings of Anton LaVey they are atheistic,they believe they are their own god,and i'd hardly consider the followers of Anton LaVey's ripped off writings Satanists..

Oh and not all thiestic/spiritual/traditional satanists do believe in the Christian god,though they all do believe in Satan,because there is no one single unified belief system among thiestic/spiritual/traditional satanists .

[Sugaree]

Oh and not all thiestic/spiritual/traditional satanists do believe in the Christian god,though they all do believe in Satan,because there is no one single unified belief system among thiestic/spiritual/traditional satanists .

Then they still believe in SOME deity. So saying all Satanists are atheist is a lie.

[Zenos]

Then they still believe in SOME deity. So saying all Satanists are atheist is a lie.


I never said ALL Satanists do not believe in a deity fo some sort.

Please reread what I said and you'll see that thsoe who follow LaVeys ripped off writings are athiests.

So please stop saying i said all satanists are athieists.

Further more those who follow Anton LaVeys stuff are not Satanic,they are atheistic in that they do not believe in a Higher Deity of any sort,and there are worshippers of the self,believeing they are gods already.So those who follow Laveys stuff are far from satanic.

[StoppingTime]

Please get back to the topic of the thread, and leave Satanists for another time. ;)

[Zenos]

Please get back to the topic of the thread, and leave Satanists for another time. ;)


roger that.:D

Wasn't trying to start a confab about then when I first mentioned them in the beginning in this thread.

[rockNroll]

Actually, refusing to stand or put your hand over your heart is not illegal at all. Check this out.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=5852851742040988222

[Haufen]

2.It is fascist bullshit.

Oh god not this fascist name calling again, maybe you should look up what fascist actually means, hint: It isn't 'authoritarian' or 'oppressive'.


Italian facists and Nazi's actually stole this from America and started using it.


Completely untrue. The fascists took it from 18th and 19th century romantic depictions of old Romans doing the salute. In reality there is no proof the old Romans actually did it.
The Italian fascists, seeing themselves as the continuation of the Roman Empire, took this romanticism for fact and put it into their ideology.
The Nazis in turn took it over from those Italian fascists.

[Unholy]

I'd like to say something. The last time I checked, barely any schools say the pledge of allegiance anymore.

[Zenos]

I'd like to say something. The last time I checked, barely any schools say the pledge of allegiance anymore.

yeh sadly and that maybe oen reason people don't care about their nation anymore.

[StoppingTime]

yeh sadly and that maybe oen reason people don't care about their nation anymore.

Me talking to a flag doesn't even slightly change what I think about this country. And if by saying the pledge makes you think this country is all good - there's a problem.

[Anonimi]

:D lol

But it is sad that todays teens think that pariotism and loyalty to their nation is stupid and wrong.

Looks like all the politicians spouting globalism,internationalism and such since the for the last 20 odd years have done their job created a generation that for the most part does not care about their nation and would roll over without so much as a whimper as if America was to be abosrbed into somesort of Global Nation!


We are really letting down the Founding fathers and their hopes and dreams they had for us!

Give arguments why its bad...

[lyriclover]

I stand but refuse to do anything else. I face away from my teacher so she doesn't notice. I don't agree with the line "With liberty and justice for all". America is far from equal liberty and justice. I hate lying especially everyday so I don't.

[Sir Suomi]

If it bothers you that much, just sit down and be quiet for about a minute, instead of complaining on the internet.... Seriously dude, have a little bit of national pride... At least be respectful for the men and women who serve that flag, and are buried with that flag.

[Castle of Glass]

and this is why i love myself. i just sit(have orchestra and i play bass so i have a stool, so it looks like i am standing. i say nothing). my teacher sent me to the office but i didn't get in trouble as they can't and no one can for me to say the pledge. not even the federal government.

[Sir Suomi]

and this is why i love myself. i just sit(have orchestra and i play bass so i have a stool, so it looks like i am standing. i say nothing). my teacher sent me to the office but i didn't get in trouble as they can't and no one can for me to say the pledge. not even the federal government.

Just wondering, why do you not do the Pledge of Allegiance? I don't see why people choose not to. Is it due to the "Under God" line? Is it due to the fact that you do not wish to do a quick little pledge, that takes about 20 seconds, or is it for another reason? Sorry if this sounds a little rude, but it baffles me. :what:

[Zenos]

Give arguments why its bad...

I cna give one most teens today want the benifts of fredom but are too darn lazy to fight for it if they had too.

History planly teaches that if people don't stand up for freedom and their nation they soon have neither.

[Castle of Glass]

Just wondering, why do you not do the Pledge of Allegiance? I don't see why people choose not to. Is it due to the "Under God" line? Is it due to the fact that you do not wish to do a quick little pledge, that takes about 20 seconds, or is it for another reason? Sorry if this sounds a little rude, but it baffles me. :what:

not because of any of those. I am a Finnish Citizen living in the US. I am not a US citizen, which means no one can force me and if they try and make me, well, then i will get them into legal(and possibly international) trouble as they tried making a citizen from country a say the pledge to country b

[Zenos]

Me talking to a flag doesn't even slightly change what I think about this country. And if by saying the pledge makes you think this country is all good - there's a problem.

Where do you get this I think this nation is 100% all good at? I mean I never said that it was.

and what is it that you think of this nation?

[StoppingTime]

Where do you get this I think this nation is 100% all good at? I mean I never said that it was.

and what is it that you think of this nation?


Well by saying the pledge (if you actually mean it when you say it), you're basically saying that you pledge your allegiance to the US and all that it stands for.

[Zenos]

Well by saying the pledge (if you actually mean it when you say it), you're basically saying that you pledge your allegiance to the US and all that it stands for.

But that does not mean you have to stand for the corrupt things about America.

And I highly doubt the gut that wrote that diddy had in mind people pledging to stand for anything corrupt in America.
Just as I doubt when people say it today they mean they are pledging to stand for anythging corrupt in America.

[VictoriaGotaSecret]

I never say it, it feels awkward to be the only on in the class to not stand and pledge. Today I was walking through my schools library and was told be two teachers to pledge but luckily I didn't know where the flag was anyway.

[StoppingTime]

But that does not mean you have to stand for the corrupt things about America.

And I highly doubt the gut that wrote that diddy had in mind people pledging to stand for anything corrupt in America.
Just as I doubt when people say it today they mean they are pledging to stand for anythging corrupt in America.

Typing in readable English is always appreciated. :rolleyes:

I don't know why the pledge was written - but that's beside the point. But since you claim it's so important and you claim to really mean it when you say it, you'd be saying you 100% support the US and it's decisions, as you're pledging your allegiance to them.

[Zenos]

Typing in readable English is always appreciated. :rolleyes:

I don't know why the pledge was written - but that's beside the point. But since you claim it's so important and you claim to really mean it when you say it, you'd be saying you 100% support the US and it's decisions, as you're pledging your allegiance to them.

:rolleyes:But that does not mean we can not change the things about America that are wrong,which I get the "feeling" you think because someone is saying the pledge automaticlaly means they would be against doing!

[StoppingTime]

:rolleyes:But that does not mean we can not change the things about America that are wrong,which I get the "feeling" you think because someone is saying the pledge automaticlaly means they would be against doing!


You've lost me.
Sure, you can change things, but pledging to a flag isn't going to change or help things.

[Zenos]

You've lost me.
Sure, you can change things, but pledging to a flag isn't going to change or help things.

Ok ok look heres the Pledge:


I Pledge Allegiance to the flag

(first of all the Flag is symbolic of the efforts and struggles of the people who have built this nation,so basically it could be said that we are pledging allegiance to their ideals which the foulding ideals where:The persuit of life ,liberty and the persuit of happiness)


of the United States of America
and to the Republic
for which it stands,

( well we are pledging allegaince to the nation that our forefathers built so that we could have the freedoms we have today)


one Nation under God,
( that under God thing is a later add on)

indivisible,

( this is a no brainer a nation is only strong as the people are united,once disunity happens that nation is on the long slippery slope down..can't deny what history has shown)


with liberty and justice for all.

( Again noble ideas that all Americans hope for)

The pledge in and off itself hurts no ones and when read with an open mind within it can befound encapsulated some of the noblest ideal of the founding fathers and those who came after them to build this nation.

[Lyra Heartstrings]

Ok ok look heres the Pledge:


I Pledge Allegiance to the flag

(first of all the Flag is symbolic of the efforts and struggles of the people who have built this nation,so basically it could be said that we are pledging allegiance to their ideals which the foulding ideals where:The persuit of life ,liberty and the persuit of happiness)


of the United States of America
and to the Republic
for which it stands,

( well we are pledging allegaince to the nation that our forefathers built so that we could have the freedoms we have today)


one Nation under God,
( that under God thing is a later add on)

indivisible,

( this is a no brainer a nation is only strong as the people are united,once disunity happens that nation is on the long slippery slope down..can't deny what history has shown)


with liberty and justice for all.

( Again noble ideas that all Americans hope for)

The pledge in and off itself hurts no ones and when read with an open mind within it can befound encapsulated some of the noblest ideal of the founding fathers and those who came after them to build this nation.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7ECukksD7B8lbEv1uMoFGGBhW5aGNZSy-MH2FiI-JPXbP1XSaNg

[Zenos]

image (https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR7ECukksD7B8lbEv1uMoFGGBhW5aGNZSy-MH2FiI-JPXbP1XSaNg)



I just want to say this I am not arguing with you no matter how much you try to push it. Good night!:D

[Lyra Heartstrings]

I just want to say this I am not arguing with you no matter how much you try to push it. Good night!:D

No..I'm trying to figure out what you said.

[Zenos]

No..I'm trying to figure out what you said.


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:P

[StoppingTime]

Ok ok look heres the Pledge:


I Pledge Allegiance to the flag

(first of all the Flag is symbolic of the efforts and struggles of the people who have built this nation,so basically it could be said that we are pledging allegiance to their ideals which the foulding ideals where:The persuit of life ,liberty and the persuit of happiness)



No, we're pledging allegiance to the country and all it stands for. Not what it stood for at one time.
Oh and here's a fun fact: That ever so quotable line "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" used to be "life liberty and property," which included slaves. So if you want to think of it that way, well.....


of the United States of America
and to the Republic
for which it stands,

( well we are pledging allegaince to the nation that our forefathers built so that we could have the freedoms we have today)

Just stop. Saying a poem has nothing to do with the "freedoms we have today." That is a bullshit argument; I don't need to talk to a flag to realize what rights we have.


one Nation under God,
( that under God thing is a later add on)

okay?


indivisible,

( this is a no brainer a nation is only strong as the people are united,once disunity happens that nation is on the long slippery slope down..can't deny what history has shown)


I didn't deny it?



with liberty and justice for all.

( Again noble ideas that all Americans hope for)

That's what's known as a "straw man argument." It means you take a point which you think sounds sophisticated, but in reality, it's meaningless.
The pledge isn't about "noble ideas" and it never mentions them.


The pledge in and off itself hurts no ones and when read with an open mind within it can befound encapsulated some of the noblest ideal of the founding fathers and those who came after them to build this nation.

No. There are no "noble ideas" hidden in the pledge, in fact, there's not a whole lot of hidden meaning. That's what people make up so they can justify the act of reading a poem to a flag.



http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120654 Go read that and get back to me.

[Zenos]

No, we're pledging allegiance to the country and all it stands for. Not what it stood for at one time.
Oh and here's a fun fact: That ever so quotable line "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" used to be "life liberty and property," which included slaves. So if you want to think of it that way, well.....


(:rolleyes: there you go dredging up slavery,when today property would not include slavery and you know.)



Just stop. Saying a poem has nothing to do with the "freedoms we have today." That is a bullshit argument; I don't need to talk to a flag to realize what rights we have.

( if you don't like it don't say it,no ones gonna force you to)

okay?



I didn't deny it?




That's what's known as a "straw man argument." It means you take a point which you think sounds sophisticated, but in reality, it's meaningless.
The pledge isn't about "noble ideas" and it never mentions them.



No. There are no "noble ideas" hidden in the pledge, in fact, there's not a whole lot of hidden meaning. That's what people make up so they can justify the act of reading a poem to a flag.



http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120654 Go read that and get back to me.


Do you have to get so hostile acting over people saying the pledge!

basically you come across rather Anti American,in that you'd critize anothers choice to actually say the Pledge!

[StoppingTime]

Do you have to get so hostile acting over people saying the pledge!

basically you come across rather Anti American,in that you'd critize anothers choice to actually say the Pledge!

I'm not criticizing. If you like saying the pledge and feel it's important, than do it. Don't let other people tell you what's right.

I'm simply stating why I'm not a fan of it.

[Lyra Heartstrings]

Do you have to get so hostile acting over people saying the pledge!

basically you come across rather Anti American,in that you'd critize anothers choice to actually say the Pledge!

He's not being hostile at all. If he was, he would have edited or deleted his post by now.

[Zenos]

I'm not criticizing. If you like saying the pledge and feel it's important, than do it. Don't let other people tell you what's right.

I'm simply stating why I'm not a fan of it.



Ok thanks for clearing it up.

[Anonimi]

I cna give one most teens today want the benifts of fredom but are too darn lazy to fight for it if they had too.

History planly teaches that if people don't stand up for freedom and their nation they soon have neither.

ofcoure i want freedom, but what part of one single global nation would be bad?

[Sir Suomi]

not because of any of those. I am a Finnish Citizen living in the US. I am not a US citizen, which means no one can force me and if they try and make me, well, then i will get them into legal(and possibly international) trouble as they tried making a citizen from country a say the pledge to country b

Ah I see. Well, then you do have a very good reason.

On a side note, I'm not from Finland, but I'm only a 3rd generation American. I'm almost pure finnish, with just some Irish mixed in. Always wanted to go back to my ancestors homeland! :D

[Zenos]

ofcoure i want freedom, but what part of one single global nation would be bad?

Well it's just being from the States I'd rather keep my national identity

[Anonimi]

Well it's just being from the States I'd rather keep my national identity

We're all humans

[Zenos]

We're all humans

yeh but that that mean we should just forget our cultural or national identities?

[Veta]

if you dont like saying it, WEL DON'T! Jeez

[Sugaree]

Just wondering, why do you not do the Pledge of Allegiance? I don't see why people choose not to. Is it due to the "Under God" line? Is it due to the fact that you do not wish to do a quick little pledge, that takes about 20 seconds, or is it for another reason? Sorry if this sounds a little rude, but it baffles me. :what:

It's more of the fact that being required to talk to a flag like it's a sentient being that irks some. I don't say it because the pledge is both outdated and a totally manufactured lie. There's never going to be full liberty and justice for everyone.

[TheMatrix]

My English teacher allows us to skip it, as long as we aren't being rude.
So I do that. However, I am thinking the following during the whole thing, which I guess you could call a pledge, even if it's to the "wrong" idea: :D
The state represses and the law cheats
The tax bleeds the unfortunate
No duty is imposed on the rich
'Rights of the poor' is a hollow phrase
Enough languishing in custody
Equality wants other laws:
No rights without obligations, it says,
And as well, no obligations without rights

This is the final struggle
Let us stand together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race

[Bath]

yeh but that that mean we should just forget our cultural or national identities?

Yes. Cultural and national identities are stupid, they should only be used for conversational topics. "Yeah, I'm from here and my parents are from here." We're all humans, we're all on Earth.

if you dont like saying it, WEL DON'T! Jeez

In many states you can get in trouble by not saying it, that's the problem, and the debate at hand.

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=Bath;2129396]Yes. Cultural and national identities are stupid, they should only be used for conversational topics. "Yeah, I'm from here and my parents are from here." We're all humans, we're all on Earth. QUOTE]


No Cultural and National identities are not stupid.

If all of humanity was to just give up their Cultural and national identities ,then that would be stupid.

Yhew e are all humans but we come from diffrent "Cultures" and nations.

I'm Scots-Irish and hence Celtic by DNA,by birth I am an American.

If I give up those things i'm what,just another number in the masses thats it.

People wanting to give up cultural and/or national identities gives up apart fo what makes them them.

Further more if you tavel to Asia,Mexico,central and south America,Africa or the middle east,you don't find any of this Cultural and National identities are stupid,so lets abandon them idea.Only in America/canada/Europe,Austraila and New Zeal Land do you see people our age eager to just rush out an dtoss aside Cultural and National identities for this lets hold hands around the campfire we are one idea.

[Bath]

[QUOTE=Bath;2129396]Yes. Cultural and national identities are stupid, they should only be used for conversational topics. "Yeah, I'm from here and my parents are from here." We're all humans, we're all on Earth. QUOTE]


No Cultural and National identities are not stupid.

If all of humanity was to just give up their Cultural and national identities ,then that would be stupid.

Yhew e are all humans but we come from diffrent "Cultures" and nations.

I'm Scots-Irish and hence Celtic by DNA,by birth I am an American.

If I give up those things i'm what,just another number in the masses thats it.

People wanting to give up cultural and/or national identities gives up apart fo what makes them them.

Further more if you tavel to Asia,Mexico,central and south America,Africa or the middle east,you don't find any of this Cultural and National identities are stupid,so lets abandon them idea.Only in America/canada/Europe,Austraila and New Zeal Land do you see people our age eager to just rush out an dtoss aside Cultural and National identities for this lets hold hands around the campfire we are one idea.

You need to travel more, you'll see that cultural identities are not that important. I think it's as important as like... your hair color or eye color. Yes it's your DNA. Yeah you can be proud of it. But in the end, it doesn't matter that much.

[Guillermo]

No Cultural and National identities are not stupid.

If all of humanity was to just give up their Cultural and national identities ,then that would be stupid.

Yhew e are all humans but we come from diffrent "Cultures" and nations.

I'm Scots-Irish and hence Celtic by DNA,by birth I am an American.

If I give up those things i'm what,just another number in the masses thats it.

People wanting to give up cultural and/or national identities gives up apart fo what makes them them.

Further more if you tavel to Asia,Mexico,central and south America,Africa or the middle east,you don't find any of this Cultural and National identities are stupid,so lets abandon them idea.Only in America/canada/Europe,Austraila and New Zeal Land do you see people our age eager to just rush out an dtoss aside Cultural and National identities for this lets hold hands around the campfire we are one idea.

Don't get me wrong, because culture is an extremely fascinating subject to me, too. I sometimes spend hours upon hours reading about cultures in various countries and i love to ask people about their heritages/backgrounds. But you must understand that a difference of culture can cause problems. It has for thousands of years. Think about it. Tribes that started out in Africa have fought since the dawn of humanity and it's still like that today though with religious aspect of culture playing a bigger role in these conflicts. Jews, Muslims and Christians have all fought for Jerusalem since Biblical times. Oh - and look where nationalism brought Europe to in the early 20th century; near total destruction because some nations thought they were better than others and that they were the superior race. Yet, look at Europe now. There are 27 member states in the European Union. That's most all of western Europe and parts of eastern Europe that have joined. Countries like France and Germany who were historically long-enemies because of their nationalistic disputes have now revolutionized the way they co-exist with each other. If a man lives in Germany and works everyday in a factory in France, then he no longer needs to show his passport when he commutes to France and vice-versa. Also Germany and France, like many other nations in the EU, have left their original currencies for the Euro - and that was a big deal. People in Europe mostly seem to be more interested in raising their standards of living and boosting their economies rather than worrying about nationalistic disputes and past hatreds. So tell me, is that really a bad thing? I mean, it's good and all to be proud of your culture and where you came from but there's no need to flaunt it to the point where conflicts can be started. Because, when it comes down to the core, we really aren't all that different. All have humans have the same basic needs. Sure, you could go on about how different religion, culture, and customs are around the world, but isn't that where the similarity derives itself? The desire - almost the need - to identify with everyone around you? It's a human quality that everyone shares. To feel like they belong to a group of people.

But at the same time, differences can be put aside in order to move forward. And really, the U.S. has done a really good job at this, for the most part. We've never really had major internal conflicts because of differences of culture. Now, our external affairs have been a bit different but the U.S. is generally a country that welcomes people from many different cultures. And maybe that's because everyone in the U.S. (except for Native Americans) themselves are from different backgrounds from around the world somewhere down the line. We were all once immigrants to U.S. down the ancestry line. The United States is basically a melting pot of many different cultures and backgrounds whether you like it or not. So, overall, lack of a sense of a 'unified nationalism' is not necessarily a bad thing, because the opposite can lead to wars and destruction as seen throughout history.

[Cicero]

Don't get me wrong, because culture is an extremely fascinating subject to me, too. I sometimes spend hours upon hours reading about cultures in various countries and i love to ask people about their heritages/backgrounds. But you must understand that a difference of culture can cause problems. It has for thousands of years. Think about it. Tribes that started out in Africa have fought since the dawn of humanity and it's still like that today though with religious aspect of culture playing a bigger role in these conflicts. Jews, Muslims and Christians have all fought for Jerusalem since Biblical times. Oh - and look where nationalism brought Europe to in the early 20th century; near total destruction because some nations thought they were better than others and that they were the superior race. Yet, look at Europe now. There are 27 member states in the European Union. That's most all of western Europe and parts of eastern Europe that have joined. Countries like France and Germany who were historically long-enemies because of their nationalistic disputes have now revolutionized the way they co-exist with each other. If a man lives in Germany and works everyday in a factory in France, then he no longer needs to show his passport when he commutes to France and vice-versa. Also Germany and France, like many other nations in the EU, have left their original currencies for the Euro - and that was a big deal. People in Europe mostly seem to be more interested in raising their standards of living and boosting their economies rather than worrying about nationalistic disputes and past hatreds. So tell me, is that really a bad thing? I mean, it's good and all to be proud of your culture and where you came from but there's no need to flaunt it to the point where conflicts can be started. Because, when it comes down to the core, we really aren't all that different. All have humans have the same basic needs. Sure, you could go on about how different religion, culture, and customs are around the world, but isn't that where the similarity derives itself? The desire - almost the need - to identify with everyone around you? It's a human quality that everyone shares. To feel like they belong to a group of people.

But at the same time, differences can be put aside in order to move forward. And really, the U.S. has done a really good job at this, for the most part. We've never really had major internal conflicts because of differences of culture. Now, our external affairs have been a bit different but the U.S. is generally a country that welcomes people from many different cultures. And maybe that's because everyone in the U.S. (except for Native Americans) themselves are from different backgrounds from around the world somewhere down the line. We were all once immigrants to U.S. down the ancestry line. The United States is basically a melting pot of many different cultures and backgrounds whether you like it or not. So, overall, lack of a sense of a 'unified nationalism' is not necessarily a bad thing, because the opposite can lead to wars and destruction as seen throughout history.

Christians never really fought for Israel. They fought for Israel in the sense of fighting for Israel for Jews. Christians aren't wanting to take over Israel, Israel is important to Christians the same exact reason why it's important to Jews, whereas its different for Muslims. I'm Pro-Israel too.

I agree with Zenos. It's very important to have a cultural identity and ethnic identity. Personally, I'm not someone who's like "Hey man, were all human, lets just love each other. The only thing that separates us is where we're born." I'm Italian so ill be like "Hey man, were all Italian, lets just love each other." Way before "We're all human..."

Kinda like how some people favor their race or ethnic background before country. For me, it's like this: Sicilian -> Italian -> Europe -> City I live in -> State -> USA -> World. Like anyone who is Sicilian, I will be like "Hey, you're one of us." Before someone who is Italian. It's like someone who is Sicilian is a brother, someone who is Italian is like an uncle or cousin, someone who is European is like a close friend, someone who is in the same city is a friend, and someone who is from my state is an acquaintance friend, and someone who is country is like an acquaintance, then someone who is of the world is like a distant acquaintance. It would really suck if that was all confusing, but that's what it's like to me. A lot of Sicilians are like that though (with other Sicilians), way back when the Mafia would only accept Sicilians, not Italians. Then they started accepting Italians, but Sicilians always remained closer. Well, there's your fun fact of the day :P lol

[Lyra Heartstrings]

Let's keep the thread on topic. If someone wants to, create a new thread for the racial/ethnicity debate.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

I shouldn't say it but i do.
I should sing star spangled banner instead.

[Zenos]

Christians never really fought for Israel. They fought for Israel in the sense of fighting for Israel for Jews. Christians aren't wanting to take over Israel, Israel is important to Christians the same exact reason why it's important to Jews, whereas its different for Muslims. I'm Pro-Israel too.

I agree with Zenos. It's very important to have a cultural identity and ethnic identity. Personally, I'm not someone who's like "Hey man, were all human, lets just love each other. The only thing that separates us is where we're born." I'm Italian so ill be like "Hey man, were all Italian, lets just love each other." Way before "We're all human..."

Kinda like how some people favor their race or ethnic background before country. For me, it's like this: Sicilian -> Italian -> Europe -> City I live in -> State -> USA -> World. Like anyone who is Sicilian, I will be like "Hey, you're one of us." Before someone who is Italian. It's like someone who is Sicilian is a brother, someone who is Italian is like an uncle or cousin, someone who is European is like a close friend, someone who is in the same city is a friend, and someone who is from my state is an acquaintance friend, and someone who is country is like an acquaintance, then someone who is of the world is like a distant acquaintance. It would really suck if that was all confusing, but that's what it's like to me. A lot of Sicilians are like that though (with other Sicilians), way back when the Mafia would only accept Sicilians, not Italians. Then they started accepting Italians, but Sicilians always remained closer. Well, there's your fun fact of the day :P lol


I'm the same way I'll be respectful to those I hand out with regardless of race etc etc,but being Scots-Irish and thus Celtic I'll embrace anyone of Scottish,Irish or of any of the Branches of the Celtic peoples much closer,then I would non-Celts.

[workingatperfect]

Further more if you tavel to Asia,Mexico,central and south America,Africa or the middle east,you don't find any of this Cultural and National identities are stupid,so lets abandon them idea.Only in America/canada/Europe,Austraila and New Zeal Land do you see people our age eager to just rush out an dtoss aside Cultural and National identities for this lets hold hands around the campfire we are one idea.

Actually, yes. You do see that. I was discussing this in my Sociology class this morning. A lot of Asian kids are very interested in american culture as opposed to their own.

And since you think that cultural identity is so precious and also that many of the ideas the country was founding on are equally amazing, here's something to think about: The Melting Pot. That's what people used to call the US, right? And it sounds soo lovely; allowing all these other races and cultures into our country as stuff, but one of the main parts of the melting pot idea was assimilation. To put that simply, "screw your culture, you're now an American. You must act like one." And that, telling immigrants their culture wasn't important anymore, is essentially ethnocentrism. Ethnocentrism, as you should already know, is basically sexism, racism and ageism, but pertaining to culture.

So before you say things like "Well it's just being from the States I'd rather keep my national identity" and "yeh but that that mean we should just forget our cultural or national identities?" keep in mind that American used to stand for stripping away people's cultural and national identities.

And that is one of reasons I don't like saying the pledge. Most of it is such bullshit.

"indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Indivisible? Is that why out country has become the most divided it's been since the Civil War? And liberty and justice for all. Bullshit. I don't even think I need to explain that one.

"One nation under God."
One of the biggest examples of a violation of the whole Separation of Church and State thing. They can't even follow their own rules.

And of course, there's the "For which it stands." In theory, maybe what they stand for isn't so bad. But what they stand for is not what they practice. So I might be ok with pledging allegiance to what America is supposed to be, but I'm not going to pledge my loyalty to what it really stands for.

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=workingatperfect;2131133]Actually, yes. You do see that. I was discussing this in my Sociology class this morning. A lot of Asian kids are very interested in american culture as opposed to their own.

And since you think that cultural identity is so precious and also that many of the ideas the country was founding on are equally amazing, here's something to think about: The Melting Pot. That's what people used to call the US, right? And it sounds soo lovely; allowing all these other races and cultures into our country as stuff, but one of the main parts of the melting pot idea was assimilation. To put that simply, "screw your culture, you're now an American. You must act like one." And that, telling immigrants their culture wasn't important anymore, is essentially ethnocentrism.


( Go into an all-Irish ,or Italian,or German etc etc Neighbourhood and run that line on them then,you'll fidn not everyone agrees with you and they feel the can be Irish or what ever their culture was and a good American as well all the while keeping their culture)


Ethnocentrism, as you should already know, is basically sexism, racism and ageism, but pertaining to culture.



So before you say things like "Well it's just being from the States I'd rather keep my national identity" and "yeh but that that mean we should just forget our cultural or national identities?" keep in mind that American used to stand for stripping away people's cultural and national identities.

( Again go into an all Irish-neighborhood,or even a Latino/Hispanic neighborhood and give them that line of tripe,they'll not buy it)



And that is one of reasons I don't like saying the pledge. Most of it is such bullshit.

"indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Indivisible? Is that why out country has become the most divided it's been since the Civil War? And liberty and justice for all. Bullshit. I don't even think I need to explain that one.

"One nation under God."
One of the biggest examples of a violation of the whole Separation of Church and State thing. They can't even follow their own rules.

And of course, there's the "For which it stands." In theory, maybe what they stand for isn't so bad. But what they stand for is not what they practice. So I might be ok with pledging allegiance to what America is supposed to be, but I'm not going to pledge my loyalty to what it really stands for.

[workingatperfect]

Can you help me out here, I can't tell what you wrote and what I wrote, aside from two comments.

But to the two comments about going to those neighborhood, whether they agree or not, it's still true. You can read about assimilation in any history book. It's a simple concept to understand. When immigrants came to the US back when it was still considered a melting pot (as opposed to the metaphors used today such as a salad bowl, a quilt or a mosaic) they were expected to leave their own culture at the door and adopt the American culture. Things have since changed. Now they would say that, yes, but back then, not so much. And even if they were, it was more important that they acted American than whatever country they were for, because Americans were very ethnocentric.

[Jean Poutine]

I'm French Canadian. Culture is very important to us. We survived the onslaught of massively more numerous English speakers for centuries by banding together and keeping to ourselves. Only reason why we remain French Catholics.

But why? Why is it so bad to be an English Protestant? Why is it so important to keep language, religion, social mores even across the board for a given culture? I'd still be here, still be happy if my mother had an English name instead of a French one.

I can tell others judge me based on my lack of accent when I speak English. "Assimilé, colonisé, vendu". Assimilated, colonized, sellout. Why such ire?

I'm not Catholic anymore, and I barely speak French in everyday life. Does that make me a bad French Canadian?

Nationality is just a thing that should be on my passport. I'm not proud of being Canadian, or French Canadian, or Québécois, or whatever this week's new terminology is. I view it as utter foolishness to keep pride in something that's beyond my control. I was born here. The place where I was born does not equal who I am. I am proud of who I am and of my accomplishments. I draw no pride from the accomplishments of others. Gratefulness, maybe, but never pride. I'll be proud of my country when my achievements match my country's.

As for culture, culture is relative. When I visit America, I know that I'm out of place. Americans keep a huge premium on personal space, Quebecers less so. Quebecers are easier to buddy with than Americans because Quebecers are very open. In Quebec, one can see young couples making out and groping everywhere. PDA is not that acceptable in America still. In Quebec, religion is never discussed and always kept private, Americans are much more open and confrontational about it. No culture is better than another. Pride in culture? That's basically avowing superiority of one group to the detriment of all others. I thought humankind learned that lesson in the last century.

I'm of French, Scottish and Swiss stock, why would another Frenchman or another Scots be any closer to me than a Chinese or Japanese dude? Why would I feel kinship with them over the others? I feel kinship with all humans. I try to bend down to different cultures as a practical thing, but I would sooner see all cultural differences eliminated from Earth. They are relics. We're all homo sapiens. Unity makes strength.

One does not instill patriotism. Feel it if you want to. Yell your pledges until your heart gives out, if you wish. Just keep it out of impressionable young minds. Schools do not need prayers or pledges, and if I were American I'd be ashamed to be dictated such liberticide crap that I'm supposed to say with a smile and the hand over the heart.

[Zenos]

I'm French Canadian. Culture is very important to us. We survived the onslaught of massively more numerous English speakers for centuries by banding together and keeping to ourselves. Only reason why we remain French Catholics.

But why? Why is it so bad to be an English Protestant? Why is it so important to keep language, religion, social mores even across the board for a given culture? I'd still be here, still be happy if my mother had an English name instead of a French one.

I can tell others judge me based on my lack of accent when I speak English. "Assimilé, colonisé, vendu". Assimilated, colonized, sellout. Why such ire?

I'm not Catholic anymore, and I barely speak French in everyday life. Does that make me a bad French Canadian?

Nationality is just a thing that should be on my passport. I'm not proud of being Canadian, or French Canadian, or Québécois, or whatever this week's new terminology is. I view it as utter foolishness to keep pride in something that's beyond my control. I was born here. The place where I was born does not equal who I am. I am proud of who I am and of my accomplishments. I draw no pride from the accomplishments of others. Gratefulness, maybe, but never pride. I'll be proud of my country when my achievements match my country's.

As for culture, culture is relative. When I visit America, I know that I'm out of place. Americans keep a huge premium on personal space, Quebecers less so. Quebecers are easier to buddy with than Americans because Quebecers are very open. In Quebec, one can see young couples making out and groping everywhere. PDA is not that acceptable in America still. In Quebec, religion is never discussed and always kept private, Americans are much more open and confrontational about it. No culture is better than another.



Pride in culture? That's basically avowing superiority of one group to the detriment of all others.


(as my granfather would say Horsefeathers,you can be proud of your culture and not run around here acting like your culture is better then others)






I thought humankind learned that lesson in the last century.

I'm of French, Scottish and Swiss stock, why would another Frenchman or another Scots be any closer to me than a Chinese or Japanese dude? Why would I feel kinship with them over the others? I feel kinship with all humans. I try to bend down to different cultures as a practical thing, but I would sooner see all cultural differences eliminated from Earth. They are relics. We're all homo sapiens. Unity makes strength.

One does not instill patriotism. Feel it if you want to. Yell your pledges until your heart gives out, if you wish. Just keep it out of impressionable young minds. Schools do not need prayers or pledges, and if I were American I'd be ashamed to be dictated such liberticide crap that I'm supposed to say with a smile and the hand over the heart.



well thats your opinion:P

[StoppingTime]

well thats your opinion:P


And everything you've posted isn't opinion?

[Danny_boi 16]

The Pledge is just an oath affirm one's loyalty to our nation and our great republic. And you're right the added the God part only 50 years ago. And that was because of the atheist movement of communism in the Soviet Union.

[Zenos]

The Pledge is just an oath affirm one's loyalty to our nation and our great republic. And you're right the added the God part only 50 years ago. And that was because of the atheist movement of communism in the Soviet Union.

The problem now is not too many of us teens where taught the importance of keeping their word once it's given,and seeing as the Pledge is an oath you are giving your world to be loyal to your nation.

[workingatperfect]

Here's something I've never quite understood about what we're pledging.. I'm taking an oath to be loyal to the US, right? So, if I move to England, have I broken that oath? Because if so, there's another reason for me not to say it. I don't plan on staying here. So if by leaving, I'd be breaking my pledge, then what's the point in saying it in the first place?

[Zenos]

Here's something I've never quite understood about what we're pledging.. I'm taking an oath to be loyal to the US, right? So, if I move to England, have I broken that oath? Because if so, there's another reason for me not to say it. I don't plan on staying here. So if by leaving, I'd be breaking my pledge, then what's the point in saying it in the first place?


Welllllll,if you give up your citizenship here for citizenship in England you are no longer bound by the Pledge to America.So you're not breaking it,as you are no longer a citizen then.

[Sugaree]

Here's something I've never quite understood about what we're pledging.. I'm taking an oath to be loyal to the US, right? So, if I move to England, have I broken that oath? Because if so, there's another reason for me not to say it. I don't plan on staying here. So if by leaving, I'd be breaking my pledge, then what's the point in saying it in the first place?

Technically, no. Some people think that if you have your citizenship revoked and move to another country, you HAVE broken the pledge; but no one really cares that much about it. The United States just can't force citizens of other countries (like ones who are here on work visas) to say the pledge. You can only say it if you're a citizen of the country.

[Danny_boi 16]

The problem now is not too many of us teens where taught the importance of keeping their word once it's given,and seeing as the Pledge is an oath you are giving your world to be loyal to your nation.

I agree, it like a little trick for pre-schoolers to say this oath at school or at sports events. No one thinks of it as an oath, but it is one.

[Paige Elizabeth]

If you have a problem with the Pledge of Allegiance, then you can leave the US. We recite the pledge everyday to remember those fighting over seas for OUR freedom and those who lost their lives fighting for OUR freedoms. If you are from another country, you don't have to say our pledge, but you SHOULD to show respect for the US allowing you to live here freely. Saying the pledge, is simply showing respect and honor.

This county was built on blood, sweat, and tears of many different races and nationalities, and because of our county's independence we have freedom. With freedom many AMERICANS have the opportunity to learn and go to school PUBLIC or PRIVATE. The point is we have the right to excel. Although the USA does have some issues we need to face as a nation, we, as AMERICANS, are lucky to live in a county where we have more rights than any other county.

[StoppingTime]

If you have a problem with the Pledge of Allegiance, then you can leave the US. We recite the pledge everyday to remember those fighting over seas for OUR freedom and those who lost their lives fighting for OUR freedoms.

http://2.media.todaysbigthing.cvcdn.com/95/29/641fcffad4e8fa6a2abec3da6af71d66.gif

There is noting in the pledge which mentions fighting or war or whatever it is you're claiming.


If you are from another country, you don't have to say our pledge, but you SHOULD to show respect for the US allowing you to live here freely. Saying the pledge, is simply showing respect and honor.

But you shouldn't be forced to.


This county was built on blood, sweat, and tears of many different races and nationalities, and because of our county's independence we have freedom.

Yea, this is called a "straw man" argument. You say something that sounds sophisticated and right, but in reality there's not a lot of truth to it.
This country was unfortunately founded by murdering, raping, and killing Natives for their land and slavery.


With freedom many AMERICANS have the opportunity to learn and go to school PUBLIC or PRIVATE.

Just.......what.


The point is we have the right to excel. Although the USA does have some issues we need to face as a nation, we, as AMERICANS, are lucky to live in a county where we have more rights than any other county.

^ Yea, no. Where's your proof for that?