Changing your sex is impossible.

[triggerperson]

Lately my recent interest has been in something called "Gender Identity Disorder" (I get interested in psychology sometimes) and basically what it is, is, when a person who grows up as for example male (xy) feels they should've grown up female (xx). They claim it creates great discomfort, aka dysphoria linked to growing up and living as their sex. I don't doubt them there. BUt...

What I believe, though, is that it is not possible, not with today's technology to change your sex (fyi I don't question their desire, I am sure it is very real this is purely about the going from *male to female* or *female to male*). If you are born with XY then every cell in your entire body will stay XY forever. If someone took a DNA test of a post-op transsexual (say a woman who made herself look like a man) then it would show that a sex change has not happened. It would say XX. Female. If someone found said person's skeleton a thousand years later, they would say it was a female, because that's what it would be. Now, I don't care what people do with their bodies, be it mutilate their genitals or a man demanding being called "Sophie" and "she", "her", etc, I'll call 'em whatever the fuck they want, I just don't care BUT the reason for my attention being put on them is that where I live tax payers pay for sex changes. Which of course, bothers me greatly because, I don't want to fucking pay for it. Now of course, again, I'm 15, but I will become and adult eventually and I will pay taxes but I don't want the money to go to mentally ill people mutilating their bodies cause they're well... mentally ill.

I'm getting off topic, but the main question (which I've tried asking on several of their forums, transsexual support forums, but it keeps getting deleted because it's "hate") is: Why do they call it sex change, Male-To-Female, Female-To-Male, when it is IMPOSSIBLE to change your sex? It is just reality, if someone is born male they will always be male, and if female, vice versa. They're so delusional and I don't understand the support they're getting, now, I'm not saying anybody should get hated or bullied because of a mental illness, so I don't think you should hate people with GID, but I don't think you should encourage it either. It's like encouraging an anorexic to restric calories or having surgeries to remove fat even if they're at a healthy weight, it's an illness and it should be treated with therapy and such. Not surgery (unless they really fucking want it but then they can pay for it themselves, having tax payers pay for it makes it my business).

Also, I don't fucking care about gender identities or whatever, this is ONLY about the act of "changing one's sex". And how I believe it to be impossible.

So, what'dya say? You gonna let me ask this or is the truth too hard to bear that you'll delete it?:spike:

[Lost in the Echo]

I'd have to agree with you. It's pretty ridiculious that taxpayer money goes towards that. You're either born male, or female, and you can't really change that.
It's like if someone is born gay, but they want to be straight ( or vice versa ) it can't really be done. You're born the way you are, and you can't change that.

So yeah, in my opinion, sex-change operations are ridiculous ( I don't mean to offend anyone, i'm just stating MY opinion :) ).

[ackmedsgirl666]

Lately my recent interest has been in something called "Gender Identity Disorder" (I get interested in psychology sometimes) and basically what it is, is, when a person who grows up as for example male (xy) feels they should've grown up female (xx). They claim it creates great discomfort, aka dysphoria linked to growing up and living as their sex. I don't doubt them there. BUt...

What I believe, though, is that it is not possible, not with today's technology to change your sex (fyi I don't question their desire, I am sure it is very real this is purely about the going from *male to female* or *female to male*). If you are born with XY then every cell in your entire body will stay XY forever. If someone took a DNA test of a post-op transsexual (say a woman who made herself look like a man) then it would show that a sex change has not happened. It would say XX. Female. If someone found said person's skeleton a thousand years later, they would say it was a female, because that's what it would be. Now, I don't care what people do with their bodies, be it mutilate their genitals or a man demanding being called "Sophie" and "she", "her", etc, I'll call 'em whatever the fuck they want, I just don't care BUT the reason for my attention being put on them is that where I live tax payers pay for sex changes. Which of course, bothers me greatly because, I don't want to fucking pay for it. Now of course, again, I'm 15, but I will become and adult eventually and I will pay taxes but I don't want the money to go to mentally ill people mutilating their bodies cause they're well... mentally ill.

I'm getting off topic, but the main question (which I've tried asking on several of their forums, transsexual support forums, but it keeps getting deleted because it's "hate") is: Why do they call it sex change, Male-To-Female, Female-To-Male, when it is IMPOSSIBLE to change your sex? It is just reality, if someone is born male they will always be male, and if female, vice versa. They're so delusional and I don't understand the support they're getting, now, I'm not saying anybody should get hated or bullied because of a mental illness, so I don't think you should hate people with GID, but I don't think you should encourage it either. It's like encouraging an anorexic to restric calories or having surgeries to remove fat even if they're at a healthy weight, it's an illness and it should be treated with therapy and such. Not surgery (unless they really fucking want it but then they can pay for it themselves, having tax payers pay for it makes it my business).

Also, I don't fucking care about gender identities or whatever, this is ONLY about the act of "changing one's sex". And how I believe it to be impossible.

So, what'dya say? You gonna let me ask this or is the truth too hard to bear that you'll delete it?:spike:

idk if you were trying to make an offensive point here or just stating your frustration but some members on this site(like me) may be offended and i actually was-sorry- i understand your frustration but this wasnt the best way to put it..... and yes getting a sex change is possible... my bestfriend will be getting one.... sorry if im pissing you off but im offended.. and im sure others will agree with me..

[triggerperson]

idk if you were trying to make an offensive point here or just stating your frustration but some members on this site(like me) may be offended and i actually was-sorry- i understand your frustration but this wasnt the best way to put it..... and yes getting a sex change is possible... my bestfriend will be getting one.... sorry if im pissing you off but im offended.. and im sure others will agree with me..

No, no, no... I do not want to offend anyone, I know my past on this forum may suggest otherwise but I've been away from this place and I feel I've really grown and regret my past. I am just confused here because, it seems very delusional to believe something that is not true, and also very unkind to people to encourage such drastic measures, and I keep asking, beacuse I want to understand but everyone always shuts me down, but I just want to understand. :/
But how do you believe they will be getting sex change when you know that their body will still have the same DNA even after years of "treatement". Their genitals will all be the same tissue as before, it'll only look different, the appearance may change but it will always be male if mtf or female if ftm. It's the truth and I'm sorry if it comes across as hurtful but... yeah. It's true. Unless you have some proof that it it's false then go ahead prove me wrong, I'd gladly see it.

[ackmedsgirl666]

look on google or even ask my friend(DarkWingedAngel) but when asking him dont try and come across as harsh or anything he gets very touchy on the subject.
hes a FTM and a member on this site
he knows more about this than i do.. im still learning myself.. and sure like its still the same skin but the DNA does overtime change if im not correct as instead of female DNA u will have male DNA. everything changes hormones and all

[triggerperson]

look on google or even ask my friend(DarkWingedAngel) but when asking him dont try and come across as harsh or anything he gets very touchy on the subject.
hes a FTM and a member on this site
he knows more about this than i do.. im still learning myself.. and sure like its still the same skin but the DNA does overtime change if im not correct as instead of female DNA u will have male DNA. everything changes hormones and all

I don't dare to talk to him, I'm afraid I would just hurt his feelings. Also, no, DNA cannot change, at least not in this area. It is impossible. I have researched this a lot lately, a couple of months, which is why I'm really confused because the facts are clear. Your DNA can't be changed. Like your sex is determined by chromosomes, and it's the little Y that makes the male and if you don't have it when your born you never will. Also, if you're born with it, it will never go away. Sorry.

[ackmedsgirl666]

well im also gonna add that in order to get approved for a sex change... you need to have some sorts of male chromosones in your body... so yes it is possible to change your DNA.... everybody is born with chromosones of the opposite sex.. even you have some female in you... i am well informed about this whole things after all when my bestfriend came out as transgender i had alot of research to do.. and i have and i learned alot. and most of what you are saying is incorrect...

[Lost in the Echo]

I don't dare to talk to him, I'm afraid I would just hurt his feelings. Also, no, DNA cannot change, at least not in this area. It is impossible. I have researched this a lot lately, a couple of months, which is why I'm really confused because the facts are clear. Your DNA can't be changed. Like your sex is determined by chromosomes, and it's the little Y that makes the male and if you don't have it when your born you never will. Also, if you're born with it, it will never go away. Sorry.

Yeah, I have to agree with this.
Here's some very convincing proof: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080917235421AAA8KFj

I know, yahoo answers isn't really the most "reliable" source, but check out the "Best Answer". That guy makes some really good points, about how a person's DNA cannot be changed.

[triggerperson]

well im also gonna add that in order to get approved for a sex change... you need to have some sorts of male chromosones in your body... so yes it is possible to change your DNA.... everybody is born with chromosones of the opposite sex.. even you have some female in you... i am well informed about this whole things after all when my bestfriend came out as transgender i had alot of research to do.. and i have and i learned alot. and most of what you are saying is incorrect...

No, you're wrong. You do not need to have a Y chromosome to get approved for a "sex change". That is totally 100% bullshit. Most people (there are of course intersexed individuals but I don't know anything about them so) are born with either XX or XY. XX is female, and XY is male. This can't be altered. Both males and females as you know starts out the same, in the womb, but the gene SRY in the Y chromosome is what makes a male develop as, well, a male. Females do not have it so they grow up as ... you know, female. It doesn't sound like your friend has been very truthful to you about this...

[ackmedsgirl666]

No, you're wrong. You do not need to have a Y chromosome to get approved for a "sex change". That is totally 100% bullshit. Most people (there are of course intersexed individuals but I don't know anything about them so) are born with either XX or XY. XX is female, and XY is male. This can't be altered. Both males and females as you know starts out the same, in the womb, but the gene SRY in the Y chromosome is what makes a male develop as, well, a male. Females do not have it so they grow up as ... you know, female. It doesn't sound like your friend has been very truthful to you about this...

umm excuse me...
my friend got chromosone testing.. and he came back with like 60 percent testocerone over estrogen k.... so your wrong.... MY FRIEND WOULDNT LIE TO ME ABOUT SOMETHING AS SERIOUS AS THIS.... i know everything about it..
seriously just look into your facts more.. im still quite insulted by everything your saying..

[workingatperfect]

Yeah, I kind of agree. Mainly that tax payers should NOT be paying for it. I could see taxpayer money going to life or death operations and what not, but this? No.

And you're also right about the impossibility of biologically changing your sex. You can have higher estrogen levels, you can have the body, the mind, etc, but you will always have XX chromosomes. That's not to say that I'm against sex changes and what not, that's just the reality of it. I still support transsexuals and all, so don't go getting offended.

umm excuse me...
my friend got chromosone testing.. and he came back with like 60 percent testocerone over estrogen k.... so your wrong.... MY FRIEND WOULDNT LIE TO ME ABOUT SOMETHING AS SERIOUS AS THIS.... i know everything about it..
seriously just look into your facts more.. im still quite insulted by everything your saying..

Are you serious? Those are hormones. You're right about everybody having both male and female hormones, but they are hormones, not chromosomes. Biiiig difference there.

[ackmedsgirl666]

Yeah, I kind of agree. Mainly that tax payers should NOT be paying for it. I could see taxpayer money going to life or death operations and what not, but this? No.

And you're also right about the impossibility of biologically changing your sex. You can have higher estrogen levels, you can have the body, the mind, etc, but you will always have XX chromosomes. That's not to say that I'm against sex changes and what not, that's just the reality of it. I still support transsexuals and all, so don't go getting offended.



Are you serious? Those are hormones. You're right about everybody having both male and female hormones, but they are hormones, not chromosomes. Biiiig difference there.

ok well the actual testing is called chromosonal testing not hormonal

[Haufen]

ok well the actual testing is called chromosonal testing not hormonal

According to your profile you're 19, yet you spell words like a retarded 12 year old and you don't even know parts of biology that are teached to 14 year old kids here. Chromosomes cannot be changed. You are born with them, you'll die with them. Hormones change the whole time, but with most people they remain fairly stable. (Except in puberty).

Anyway, I agree with OP, people like this shouldn't get money for a 'sex change operation', I'd be fine with paying taxes so they can get psychological help.
It's also quite sick how these days even children can decide to get hormones before puberty just because they 'don't feel like a boy/girl', the problem is is that you can and will change greatly in puberty and it might've just been a stage.

[ackmedsgirl666]

im sorry but im just gonna shut my mouth as i am greatly enraged right now
but im gonna shut my mouth and hold my tongue before i say something ill regret and will possibly lead to an infraction or bann...

but you.. i dont approve with you insulting my grammar.. seriously grow up.. this isnt a grammar contest.. i write that way because i prefer too not because its how i write.. i know proper grammar but choose not to use it on her since members dont usually come along and make fun of me cause of it..... but when members like you decide your mr/mrs perfect and can change that.. WELL GUESS WHAT IM NOT GONNA CHANGE ANYTHING... but my advice in future is to mind your insults.

[workingatperfect]

ok well the actual testing is called chromosonal testing not hormonal

Look, I'm sorry, but that's wrong. Chromosomal tests test, well, chromosomes. Hormonal tests test hormones.

"What is a chromosomal test?

Chromosomes are the large DNA-containing structures in the nucleus of a cell. Humans normally have 23 pairs of chromosomes: 22 pairs of autosomes (numbered 1 through 22) and 1 pair of sex chromosomes (either XX for females or XY for males). Chromosomal tests look at features of a person's chromosomes, including their structure, number and arrangement. These tests look for changes, such as pieces of a chromosome being deleted, expanded, or being switched to a different chromosomal location."
From: http://www.genome.gov/19516567

You'll notice hormones aren't mentioned.

Edit: I'd just like to add. He very well may have had a chromosomal test, but I assure you, the results were not his hormone count. He probably had both tests before the operation, and you're just getting them mixed up.

[ackmedsgirl666]

as i said i rest my case..

[Mortal Coil]

I find this really dumb. OP, I assume that what you don't know is that in the DSM-V, which is coming out the May, Gender Identity Disorder will no longer be listed. Because trans* people are NOT mentally ill. I can understand why you would have preferences about where your tax money goes but the fact is that sex changes are an important part of trans* people's lives, and even if you don't necessarily agree with it, have a little respect.

[triggerperson]

as i said i rest my case..

You know this ALWAYS what happens. I'm pretty sure that transsexuals are just delusional now, you seem to have listened to your friend a little too much because what you are saying is incorrect. Ask anybody with a brain, and they'll tell you that what you've been saying, science disagrees with. I think I'm going to trust the doctors and people who actually know their shit over you.
I've just never heard anybody talk about transsexualism with logic and supported it with logic, in fact it's just fucking annoying because it's getting on my nerves that everyone supporting but won't answer the fucking questions that are clearly the big fat fucking elephants in the room.

Like, you can't change your genes, your genes is what makes you, YOU, and YOU are female, so you'll always be female. Now as far as I know, you're not transsexual but hypothetically if you went through with a "sex change" your DNA would still be that of what we define as FEMALE. Which means you can never alter yourself enough to fit the definition of MALE. Thus neither can your friend. Sorry.

Just he is FEMALE whether "he" likes it or not, I don't make up the rules, it is just _reality_. I'll call him *him* if he wants me to, but it's delusional of him to believe he is male when he isn't. You know,

Female and male are just words. Female are those without the Y and males or those with it. It is that simple. Those with a Y will develop a penis, and those without it a vagina. If you have a penis, you are male, if you have a vagina, you are female. That's how the words work. It's just words, calling an apple a banana isn't gonna make it one so why do people keep doing it?:what:

I made the words big because you don't seem to see them, thought maybe your vision is just really bad. I don't get why they desire the words female/male so much. Sounds like something about the traditional roles men and women have in society bothers them, like about behaving as a boy or a girl, I doubt it's really something physical.

It's a circle,

Male= XY= PENIS
Female=XX=VAGINA
Now look down.
PENIS=XY=MALE
VAGINA=XX=FEMALE

I'll believe you feel you should've been born of the opposite sex but I'll never believe you can transform yourself to become the opposite sex. Which is why I think ya'll are delusional as fuck.

EDIT:
I find this really dumb. OP, I assume that what you don't know is that in the DSM-V, which is coming out the May, Gender Identity Disorder will no longer be listed. Because trans* people are NOT mentally ill. I can understand why you would have preferences about where your tax money goes but the fact is that sex changes are an important part of trans* people's lives, and even if you don't necessarily agree with it, have a little respect.

But the thing is I think they are mentally ill and I've yet to see any proof they aren't just people ignoring everything that is clearly wrong with how they think.

[ackmedsgirl666]

According to your profile you're 19, yet you spell words like a retarded 12 year old and you don't even know parts of biology that are teached to 14 year old kids here. Chromosomes cannot be changed. You are born with them, you'll die with them. Hormones change the whole time, but with most people they remain fairly stable. (Except in puberty).

Anyway, I agree with OP, people like this shouldn't get money for a 'sex change operation', I'd be fine with paying taxes so they can get psychological help.
It's also quite sick how these days even children can decide to get hormones before puberty just because they 'don't feel like a boy/girl', the problem is is that you can and will change greatly in puberty and it might've just been a stage.

You know this ALWAYS what happens. I'm pretty sure that transsexuals are just delusional now, you seem to have listened to your friend a little too much because what you are saying is incorrect. Ask anybody with a brain, and they'll tell you that what you've been saying, science disagrees with. I think I'm going to trust the doctors and people who actually know their shit over you.
I've just never heard anybody talk about transsexualism with logic and supported it with logic, in fact it's just fucking annoying because it's getting on my nerves that everyone supporting but won't answer the fucking questions that are clearly the big fat fucking elephants in the room.

Like, you can't change your genes, your genes is what makes you, YOU, and YOU are female, so you'll always be female. Now as far as I know, you're not transsexual but hypothetically if you went through with a "sex change" your DNA would still be that of what we define as FEMALE. Which means you can never alter yourself enough to fit the definition of MALE. Thus neither can your friend. Sorry.

Just he is FEMALE whether "he" likes it or not, I don't make up the rules, it is just _reality_. I'll call him *him* if he wants me to, but it's delusional of him to believe he is male when he isn't. You know,

Female and male are just words. Female are those without the Y and males or those with it. It is that simple. Those with a Y will develop a penis, and those without it a vagina. If you have a penis, you are male, if you have a vagina, you are female. That's how the words work. It's just words, calling an apple a banana isn't gonna make it one so why do people keep doing it?:what:

I made the words big because you don't seem to see them, thought maybe your vision is just really bad. I don't get why they desire the words female/male so much. Sounds like something about the traditional roles men and women have in society bothers them, like about behaving as a boy or a girl, I doubt it's really something physical.

It's a circle,

Male= XY= PENIS
Female=XX=VAGINA
Now look down.
PENIS=XY=MALE
VAGINA=XX=FEMALE

I'll believe you feel you should've been born of the opposite sex but I'll never believe you can transform yourself to become the opposite sex. Which is why I think ya'll are delusional as fuck.

EDIT:


But the thing is I think they are mentally ill and I've yet to see any proof they aren't just people ignoring everything that is clearly wrong with how they think.



wow ok like i said i rest my case. im not getting involved with that anymore
i know my facts and you know yours. you claim mine are incorect ok fine ill be the mature one here and end this and say you are right... you wanna call my friend a liar ok.... whatever makes you happy. but just keep in mind not everything your gonna say is right...

[Gigablue]

This is just a reminder to stay on topic and stop insulting each other. There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but please remain civil.

[ackmedsgirl666]

This is just a reminder to stay on topic and stop insulting each other. There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but please remain civil.

thankyou

[Haufen]

I find this really dumb. OP, I assume that what you don't know is that in the DSM-V, which is coming out the May, Gender Identity Disorder will no longer be listed. Because trans* people are NOT mentally ill. I can understand why you would have preferences about where your tax money goes but the fact is that sex changes are an important part of trans* people's lives, and even if you don't necessarily agree with it, have a little respect.

Implying the psychological world isn't pressured by 'progressives' to be politically correct.
Implying psychology isn't filled with biased 'progressives'.
Implying psychology is a real science to begin with.

[workingatperfect]

wow ok like i said i rest my case. im not getting involved with that anymore
i know my facts and you know yours. you claim mine are incorect ok fine ill be the mature one here and end this and say you are right... you wanna call my friend a liar ok.... whatever makes you happy. but just keep in mind not everything your gonna say is right...

You don't know your facts.

"No amount of surgery, hormone injections or anything else will change someone's DNA from a man's to a woman's (or vice versa).

As you know, for humans, sex is determined by the presence of a Y chromosome -- humans with an X and a Y chromosome are male and those with two X chromosomes are female. No current (or probably future) technology can replace a chromosome in all of our trillions of cells."
http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask35

It is IMPOSSIBLE to actually change your sex. Your DNA will always show you as whatever you were born as. It's as simple as that. You can change the body and the hormones, but you can not change DNA. Show me a valid source that states otherwise, and I'll believe you.

[ackmedsgirl666]

as i already said i rest my case
please dont quote me anymore.

[triggerperson]

wow ok like i said i rest my case. im not getting involved with that anymore
i know my facts and you know yours. you claim mine are incorect ok fine ill be the mature one here and end this and say you are right... you wanna call my friend a liar ok.... whatever makes you happy. but just keep in mind not everything your gonna say is right...

Um... seriously, to alter your DNA would mean to alter every single goddamn cell in a person's body. Do you not realize how many cells are in a human body? And I'm just saying that female and male are just words we use to describe the state of something. Like I have blonde hair, the word blonde is irrelevant, I could say I feel like I should've been born with brown hair but I didn't and calling myself a brunette just because I feel like I should've been one, is pointless. It doesn't change the fact that I'm blonde.

What I mean is, I don't understand why they go through all this trouble to get a word. I mean if it was just about the physical part, let's forget the labels. We're talking about a woman who wants to remove her breasts because she's uncomfortable having them there, and take a piece of skin from her arm and put it over her clitoris, sew the hole shut and reroute it and give it the appearance of a penis. Inject herself with testosterone to make it look like she's got the Y chromosome when she in fact doesn't. Does that sound like something a sane person would do? No.
It's psychotic. I don't think we should support them in doing these things, I think we should try to help them figure out why they want to do it in the first place, and try to fix what's wrong in head instead.:)

[Mortal Coil]

But the thing is I think they are mentally ill and I've yet to see any proof they aren't just people ignoring everything that is clearly wrong with how they think.
OH, well pardon me! I didn't realize that your personal belief that a group of people is mentally ill gives you any right to deprive them of their human rights! My mistake, sir!
Implying psychology is a real science to begin with.
When the hell did I imply that?

[Haufen]

Like I have blonde hair, the word blonde is irrelevant, I could say I feel like I should've been born with brown hair but I didn't and calling myself a brunette just because I feel like I should've been one, is pointless. It doesn't change the fact that I'm blonde.

In today's fucked up world something like that actually exists, it's called 'transethnicism', hell there's even 'transablism', which are mentally degenerated people who think they are handicapped.

It's a result of this so called 'modern', 'progressive' world that idiotic shit like this exists. These people didn't exist 60 years ago.



When the hell did I imply that?

You implied that by making it sound like we should take the DSM as proof that transsexuality isn't a mental problem.

[ackmedsgirl666]

In today's fucked up world something like that actually exists, it's called 'transethnicism', hell there's even 'transablism', which are mentally degenerated people who think they are handicapped.

It's a result of this so called 'modern', 'progressive' world that idiotic shit like this exists. These people didn't exist 60 years ago.

u have no right to put people down like seriously... this is insane
and actually yes there was such a thing that long ago.. its not fucking new..
its been around for quite some time... but only recent studies and advanced technology have furthered it in todays world...

and mind you prior to getting approved for a sex change.... the client needs to undergo multiple sessions of councelling and diagnostics to see where they best fit.. if they are qualified mentally for the change and physically where they take chromosones and compare them and check for testocerone

[triggerperson]

OH, well pardon me! I didn't realize that your personal belief that a group of people is mentally ill gives you any right to deprive them of their human rights! My mistake, sir!

When did I say that? I don't want to deprive them of any human rights. If they want to chop their tits off or push their penis inside out, fine, by all means go ahead. But we must all face reality and see that they can never change their DNA, they can never cross over from one sex to another. It's impossible. And also I don't want to pay for their delusional little escapades. I'd be fine if tax payers paid for help, to help them mentally, but not to fuck up their bodies. I just think that's ridiculous.

I can't ignore how psychotic it sounds when they open their mouths.

In today's fucked up world something like that actually exists, it's called 'transethnicism', hell there's even 'transablism', which are mentally degenerated people who think they are handicapped.

It's a result of this so called 'modern', 'progressive' world that idiotic shit like this exists. These people didn't exist 60 years ago.
Lol wut? I think evolution is going backwards...
:lol:

u have no right to put people down like seriously... this is insane
and actually yes there was such a thing that long ago.. its not fucking new..
its been around for quite some time... but only recent studies and advanced technology have furthered it in todays world...

and mind you prior to getting approved for a sex change.... the client needs to undergo multiple sessions of councelling and diagnostics to see where they best fit.. if they are qualified mentally for the change and physically where they take chromosones and compare them and check for testocerone

They don't check for testosterone, everyone makes testosterone, both male and females, it's just that males produce like 20x more than females.

[Haufen]

u have no right to put people down like seriously...


According to the UN and most governments in the world I do. It's called freedom of speech and/or expression.



this is insane


No, the people that I was talking about are.

[ackmedsgirl666]

yes and this is what they are checking for
here in canada you need to have certain qualifications
my friend went through it
theyre not gonna let some random person off the street walk in and say"hey i wanna be a girl/boy.. give me the surgury
the person undergoes testing to get approval for the surgury first
seeing as the surgury is ireversible they want to make sure that this is 100% what the person wants first... the testing alone take 2-3 years and then you have to prepare for surgury and take testocerone to stop the mentrual cycle.. and stabilize your cells.
for that much i know.. ive seen my friend go through it and heard all about it

[triggerperson]

yes and this is what they are checking for
here in canada you need to have certain qualifications
my friend went through it
theyre not gonna let some random person off the street walk in and say"hey i wanna be a girl/boy.. give me the surgury
the person undergoes testing to get approval for the surgury first
seeing as the surgury is ireversible they want to make sure that this is 100% what the person wants first... the testing alone take 2-3 years and then you have to prepare for surgury and take testocerone to stop the mentrual cycle.. and stabilize your cells.
for that much i know.. ive seen my friend go through it and heard all about it

No, I know there is testing. They have to go by Harry Benjamin's Standards of Care which involves things such as a real life test. Which is living as your desired sex for a year before "treatment". I just said that they don't check for Testosterone, cause they don't. They do tests to see if there are hormonal imbalances, but that doesn't explain it because then all transsexuals would have hormones that are weird and there wouldn't be regular people with weird hormonal levels that don't want to get any "sex changes". There is just nothing to back up these desires that make it logical, and anyone who says their sex has been changed is lying because it's impossible to do so.

Once XX always XX.

EDIT:
Just read an article about a 10-year-old boy that's allowed to have a "sex change" surgery, at 10. He'd been living as a girl for two years. I think it's sad tbh. These people should get therapy not surgery.

[ackmedsgirl666]

as i already said i am done with this bullshit so STOP QUOTING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!
i rest my friggen case

[triggerperson]

as i already said i am done with this bullshit so STOP QUOTING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!
i rest my friggen case

Cause you can't prove your case. Because you're wrong. But fine, I won't quote you no more. Except for this, obviously. Sad to see you just give up on what you believe, shouldn't you stand tall if you think you're right? Yet you're cowering...

[workingatperfect]

Ok, for the last time, they do not test your chromosomes for hormones. They test the chemical levels in your blood. I've had a billion blood tests to check my hormones. It's just a simple blood test, it doesn't involve your chromosomes.

Now then. There have been studies that suggest that it might actually be a real, physical thing that can SOMETIMES cause GID. Sometimes. For some people it IS just a psychological thing.

Link to the study on brain structure. (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan.html)

It basically says in there that in some FTM pre-treatment transsexuals, 4 parts of the brain resembled that of a man, moreso than a woman. They don't know if the four sections actually affect something like this, but that one section could *possibly affect the person's perception, which obviously could indeed cause a problem like this.

Now, that's not in everyone who feels like they aren't what they genetically are, which is why extensive therapy is necessary. To weed out the people who just need a little help feeling comfortable with themselves.

I still think though that therapy is a more sane and rational option though. If that doesn't work, then yeah, sure, get a sex change. But a lot of the people probably just have deep-seated psychological problems. Not all of them, but a good bit of them probably.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

I say that I find this post like a lot of the others here. It's offensively opinionated.
I believe sex changes are actually something that makes somebody feel they're in the right body. I used to have a boyfriend that wanted a sex change and I gave no fuck because I still love him (maybe her by now) even 2 years later.
I used to have a hard time with my own gender. I used to wonder why I was born like this. Sometimes I still have a slight yearn to change my gender.
Bottom line is that this post is actually sort've offensive to those who like myself, sometimes feel we weren't born correctly. It's fine if you disagree out of opinion. Just know that opinion it is and not fact.

[triggerperson]

Just know that opinion it is and not fact.

But they are facts. You can't change your DNA. I don't understand why that is so hard for you guys to wrap your heads around. It is not an opinion, it is a fact. We do not have the technology to change a person's sex. You may want to, but you can't. It's just the truth.

It is psychotic to believe you can change your sex when it is in fact impossible, it shows you're out of touch with reality. Which would, to me, indicate a mental illness.

[ackmedsgirl666]

being trangendered is not a fucking illness and i am tired of you saying this
its really hurting me whenever you say this.. its almost like saying being gay is an illness.
have some couth. have some respect.. grow up for starters

[triggerperson]

being trangendered is not a fucking illness and i am tired of you saying this
its really hurting me whenever you say this.. its almost like saying being gay is an illness.
have some couth. have some respect.. grow up for starters

Grow up? I think you're the one who should grow up and pick up a book and read a little bit, do some research. Biology and psychology could help you in this subject, I would definitely recommend it. I'm also sorry that you're hurt, I'm not doing it intentionally. But you know, I don't think this is going anywhere and so I will not post again, after this. If it makes ya feel better, sure you can change your sex. Transgenderism is fine. I just need to open my eyes and not be so ignorant. If it can be disguised as a duck then it is a duck. :)

Good bye forever.

[Haufen]

grow up for starters

Says the one who can't spell and doesn't have basic junior highschool knowledge.
Also, using 'grow up' instead of giving a real argument really shows that you are the one that has some growing up to do.

Also, nobody in the real world will give a shit that you're 'hurt', harden the fuck up, this world isn't one for weaklings and cowards.

[ackmedsgirl666]

Says the one who can't spell and doesn't have basic junior highschool knowledge.
Also, using 'grow up' instead of giving a real argument really shows that you are the one that has some growing up to do.

Also, nobody in the real world will give a shit that you're 'hurt', harden the fuck up, this world isn't one for weaklings and cowards.

dude you have a terrible attitude
i think you need a hard case of reality.. you are being very rude and it is not called for.. you seriously need to cut it out with the insults

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Grow up? I think you're the one who should grow up and pick up a book and read a little bit, do some research. Biology and psychology could help you in this subject, I would definitely recommend it. I'm also sorry that you're hurt, I'm not doing it intentionally. But you know, I don't think this is going anywhere and so I will not post again, after this. If it makes ya feel better, sure you can change your sex. Transgenderism is fine. I just need to open my eyes and not be so ignorant. If it can be disguised as a duck then it is a duck. :)

Good bye forever.

Perhaps the reverse?
You can't stop fucking nagging on people about this shit. The facts are yes you can change parts of your DNA, exactly the plan for ridding of genetic disease.
Sex change thus is proven possible in 1 sentence.
You seem to flash the word ignorant at the wrong people as well as the word immature to the same wrong people. Just blame yourself for posting this topic that's causing a miniature civil war, that I think logically you should be losing.

[Haufen]

i think you need a hard case of reality..

You don't get it do you? YOU are the one who needs a hard case of reality, it will be hard indeed. Once you realise human nature is based on survival and greed you'll understand. Is Canadian education this weak?
Teachers here tell you exactly that you need to harden up and stop whining because employers and people in general aren't looking for weaklings and whiners.

[ackmedsgirl666]

dont be going on here and making fun of my nationality and country
seriously smarten up and stop commenting if all your gonna be is rude

[Haufen]

seriously smarten up

It's hilarious how you are so hypocritical. How about you smarten up? How about you go back to first grade of elementary school? Your spelling and knowledge about psychology and biology are atrocious. Your stupidity makes me want to kill myself.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Seriously hilarious how you discriminate people.(I hope you sense I was sarcastic)

[ackmedsgirl666]

Seriously hilarious how you discriminate people.

agreed with this one:)

[Haufen]

Better a discriminating asshole than an unintelligent, blind hippie in lalaland.

[ackmedsgirl666]

you need to stop being so rude... seriously.. your the one who needs to grow up and stop making fun of me and other members but mainly me.... seriously knock it off.. ive done all i can now stop... and leave if u have nothing nice to say

[Haufen]

leave if u have nothing nice to say

How about you leave if you have nothing factual and/or intelligent to say.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Better a discriminating asshole than an unintelligent, blind hippie in lalaland.

Nobody here is like that except the OP.
So you're only helping my cause.

[ackmedsgirl666]

Nobody here is like that except the OP.
So you're only helping my cause.

ive reported this thread... so hope someone steps in soon
and agreed :)

[Haufen]

Nobody here is like that except the OP.
So you're only helping my cause.

OP has given quotes and scientific facts for all arguments, you two have only given badly spelled insults. I can't believe you two are this narrowminded. Then again, can't expect much else from progressives.

[workingatperfect]

Perhaps the reverse?
You can't stop fucking nagging on people about this shit. The facts are yes you can change parts of your DNA, exactly the plan for ridding of genetic disease.
Sex change thus is proven possible in 1 sentence.
You seem to flash the word ignorant at the wrong people as well as the word immature to the same wrong people. Just blame yourself for posting this topic that's causing a miniature civil war, that I think logically you should be losing.

Source?

It's hilarious how you are so hypocritical. How about you smarten up? How about you go back to first grade of elementary school? Your spelling and knowledge about psychology and biology are atrocious. Your stupidity makes me want to kill myself.

Honestly, you are being incredibly rude. A mod has already posted warning people about insults, you're going against that.

[Haufen]

Honestly, you are being incredibly rude. A mod has already posted warning people about insults, you're going against that.


I feel extremely insulted by this, incredibly hurt. I'm crying here. Going to call the mods. You are way too rude.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

OP has given quotes and scientific facts for all arguments, you two have only given badly spelled insults. I can't believe you two are this narrowminded. Then again, can't expect much else from progressives.

Umm no? I might agree if this was 50 years ago but not today because they are changing genders and shit right now. Foundation way to almost cure cystic fibrosis by changing DNA about 20 years ago. Sorry to say this but you are utterly wrong and against gender change.

[ackmedsgirl666]

I feel extremely insulted by this, incredibly hurt. I'm crying here. Going to call the mods. You are way too rude.

hes warning you so his thread doesnt get locked
seriously grow up..

[Haufen]

hes warning you so his thread doesnt get locked
seriously grow up..

Why don't you come with a real argument instead of 'grow up', come on mate.
Give me some scientific evidence with an argument.

[ackmedsgirl666]

i already told you.. and i will say it again
i have said all i need to say... and i am happy with my beliefs
now back off.. stop being an immature toot and go somewhere else and insult others
your lucky were just people on the internet
i would love to see what happens to you in the real world talking like this

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Source?



Honestly, you are being incredibly rude. A mod has already posted warning people about insults, you're going against that.
Holt Biology book page 182
"Gene technology may soon allow scientists to correct genetic disorders by replacing defective genes with copies of healthy ones... In 1990, a defective cystic fibrosis gene was successfully transferred into human lung cells in growing tissue culture by attaching the DNA of a cold virus"
Book was printed in 2004.

[workingatperfect]

Umm no? I might agree if this was 50 years ago but not today because they are changing genders and shit right now. Foundation way to almost cure cystic fibrosis by changing DNA about 20 years ago. Sorry to say this but you are utterly wrong and against gender change.

They aren't changing genders right now. I'm sorry, but it is still impossible to change every single chromosome in someone's body from XX to XY or vice versa. I've already posted a source stating this. Could it be possible in the future with gene therapy and other methods? Yes. But as of right now, it is not.

Seriously, this is a debate. If you can't back up your claims, you shouldn't be trying to debate.

Holt Biology book page 182
"Gene technology may soon allow scientists to correct genetic disorders by replacing defective genes with copies of healthy ones... In 1990, a defective cystic fibrosis gene was successfully transferred into human lung cells in growing tissue culture by attaching the DNA of a cold virus"
Book was printed in 2004.

Ah, finally, someone cites something. It's about time. Notice it says, "...may SOON..." You said that it is currently being changed. Once again, find me a source saying it's currently being done, and I'll believe you.

And treating a disease is not the same as changing gender.

[Lunar]

You make excellent points. I actually do have Gender Identity Disorder. Can I completely change my physical sex? No. But these changes are almost always sucessful. Many transgendered people commit suicide because of their physical appearance before they undergo an operation. Perhaps far ahead in the future an alternative cure could be discovered, and even change their chromosomes... who knows? We've come far in the world.

[DarkWingedAngel]

They don't check for testosterone, everyone makes testosterone, both male and females, it's just that males produce like 20x more than females.
if males have 20x more then females then I guess im a bio male eh, I have 78% testosterone. and oh my fucking god my chromosomes are what? not xx nore xy OMG! they sit at what oh that's right xx-xy the xx for my body the xy for my brain. DO NOT say im fucking wrong because how the fuck can a machine lie eh. [Content Removed. -StoppingTime]

[StoppingTime]

This has gotten out of control. We're not a place where you can all blindly bash and flame each other over an argument. Honestly, all of you need to find some maturity if you can't even handle yourselves on a debate forum.

This is going to be locked, and I'm debating whether bans or infractions will be issued. This isn't going away. :locked: