Evolution or Creationism?

[Underground_Network]

Which do you believe in?


I really don't believe in creationism, I'm brought up to believe in God, but I don't really see how he exists... Now I still have no clue how life itself came to be; how the cesspool that would grow to be what we have become today, came into existence; but I believe that things grew and changed both mentally and physically, eventually becoming primeates and then slowly developing into prehistoric humans, then more modern humans, then what we have today.. What do you think?? Were humans just created by the wave of a hand, or was there something scientific going on that made us all come to be? EVOLUTION OR CREATION? SCIENCE OR RELIGION? WHICH IS IT??

[Maverick]

I don't think it can be one or the other. I do not believe in God, but I don't think science is enough to disprove the idea of creationism. I think they can co-exist. Science can explain the reasoning of God's creation and what we live in.

Plus, science doesn't provide all the answers, nor does religion. I honestly don't think we'll ever have all the answers to how we came out. Like it's scary to think about.. like where did the universe come from? How did it start? How did something come out of nothing? What created what created the universe? Were we even created at all? Lol I don't know if that makes sense but it's just weird to think about.

[Serenity]

I think they can co-exist. Science can explain the reasoning of God's creation and what we live in.

That is totally exactly what I was typing before I accidentally shut off my computer! lol

Here's my thinking: The Bible says that God created man, yes? But it doesn't say how LONG he took doing it. How do we know he didn't evolve those single-celled organisms into human beings?

[Silverfist64]

For me im all for science. Personally, christianity is a way of hiding from the truth.

[RaisingSand]

I was raised Anglican, and have been to a Catholic school all my life, where we are taught a strict regime (eg, anything in the science program they don't like is removed, censored), such as evolution is a total myth and God created all specially and individually.
In my opinion, anyone with half a brain can open there eyes and view the amount of scientific proof that that is a load of baloney. Personally, I believe in evolution and science being the source of everything, because physically there is no other answer.
It is human nature to want to believe in a higher power/being IMO, for example, Neanderthals appeared to have believed in some form of high power as well as the after life, as archaeologists have discovered cave paintings (citation needed) as well as other physical evidence suggesting this.
At this stage in my life I am undecided as to what created us and why we're here, but I do not believe it is God entirely.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

I personally believe in evolution all the way. Typically, creationists tend to stress the "earth is 6000 years old" mentality, and therefore, I doubt that Evolution and Creationism can co-exist.

[One_Chance]

I belive in evolution.

[4IrishJustice]

I was raised Cristian, but i'm now a vary proud Deist. (if you dont know what that is, google search deism.) So i'm a creationist (the first one to post wow) It just is more rational to believe that it takes intelligent life to creat intelligence. No creation doesn't have a creator. AI in video games were made by humans, they didn't just spam characters until a proper code started working, there was intelligence behind it.

And as for everyone who thinks that theirs proof for evolution...i'm sorry to burst your bubble but there's not. And you can PM or post here if you think there is proof but i'll be able to find something that difutes it (mainly be pointing out that it's just as much a religious belief as creationism is and not really science.)

But in the end this debate has no end, In order to know how the universe got started you'd have to observe the creation of a universe, whitch is obviously impossable.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

I am just going to say to everyone who may wish to debate the guy above, DONT. Creationism requires faith, and faith is belief in something that has virtually no proof, he already has his mind made up, there is no point to it. Just allow him to believe in creationism instead of hardcore proof backed up by just about every scientist in the world.

[Serenity]

I am just going to say to everyone who may wish to debate the guy above, DONT. Creationism requires faith, and faith is belief in something that has virtually no proof, he already has his mind made up, there is no point to it. Just allow him to believe in his a magical sky being instead of hardcore proof.

You're telling all of US to respect and allow him his beliefs, and yet you're allowed to sit there and ridicule him for it? Yeah, I don't think so.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

When did I say respect? And his beliefs are already allowed. I dont care who ridicules me, they have proof to back it up. I never asked you to respect him, did I?:confused:

[4IrishJustice]

Ohhh. BURN. But Valtasitically is right. Gots to give credit where credit is due.

Though Rtas, the Evolutionists need faith too. Science is only science when it can be observed and repeated with the same results in a laboratory. And Science changes through the years, at this point many scientists are claiming that men lived with dinosours. The inca stones found in peru are the best proof of this. They are paintings on stones of men and dinosours. Again do a google search on "men lived with dinosours" and also try "dinasour skin" to hear evidence that life hasn't been on the earth for millions of years.

oh and as for mocking my belief in a "sky being"...well you just didn't do your homework on Deism like i asked did you? I'll clue you in. While deists believe in intelligent design, we don't believe in divine intervention. so that whole invisible friend in the sky thing that all of the Atheists throw out are really ment for christians, muslims, and jews, but not deists.

[Underground_Network]

LIFE HAS EXISTED ON EARTH FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS. ITS CALLED SINGLE-CELLED ORGANISMS. Anything that has metabolism, anything that respirates; is considered a living being. And considering the fact that single-celled organisms do that, and they have proof that they existed millions of years ago on Earth, you cannot prove that life did not exist on Earth millions of years ago. Everything has built its way up. Microorganisms have already proven to us they have the ability to shape form in a time range of several hundred to several thousands of years. So if you give a microorganism hundreds of millions of years to change, imagine what it could develop into. First something small (I mean like smaller than an insect), than maybe something the size of an insect, then just keep growing and growing over thousand year periods (probably much longer than thousand year periods) and eventually primeates, and then humans. They have yet to prove this 100% scientifically, but if you look at what scientists are telling us about microorganisms/single-celled organisms, you'll understand that life on Earth has the ability to shift/change, and don't forget about adaptations. Humans over time have changed, its all in the genes. They believe that most people are afraid of spiders and snakes and react quickly b/c it was programmed into our DNA for that to occur so our prehistoric ancestors could react quickly and avoid being bitten by a poisonous snake or spider. I mean, they can definitely prove that we developed from prehistoric humans, and look how different we are, compare a prehistoric human's skeleton to yours and be amazed at what you see.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Ohhh. BURN. But Valtasitically is right. Gots to give credit where credit is due.

Though Rtas, the Evolutionists need faith too. Science is only science when it can be observed and repeated with the same results in a laboratory. And Science changes through the years, at this point many scientists are claiming that men lived with dinosours. The inca stones found in peru are the best proof of this. They are paintings on stones of men and dinosours. Again do a google search on "men lived with dinosours" and also try "dinasour skin" to hear evidence that life hasn't been on the earth for millions of years.

oh and as for mocking my belief in a "sky being"...well you just didn't do your homework on Deism like i asked did you? I'll clue you in. While deists believe in intelligent design, we don't believe in divine intervention. so that whole invisible friend in the sky thing that all of the Atheists throw out are really ment for christians, muslims, and jews, but not deists.


The Inca stones were disproven almost immediatly, the guy who found them even admitted he forged them. No reputable scientist thinks that humans and dino's lived together. And sorry for the rude comment, I edited that.:)

[Maverick]

When did I say respect? And his beliefs are already allowed. I dont care who ridicules me, they have proof to back it up. I never asked you to respect him, did I?:confused:
I'm going to have to agree with Valerie on this one. What you said here:

I am just going to say to everyone who may wish to debate the guy above, DONT. Creationism requires faith, and faith is belief in something that has virtually no proof, he already has his mind made up, there is no point to it. Just allow him to believe in creationism instead of hardcore proof backed up by just about every scientist in the world.
Was uncalled for. Personal attacks in the debate forum aren't allowed. Debate the facts but do not take cheap shots at people like that. Don't make it personal.

[4IrishJustice]

Well Underground Network. Science has only proven microevolution (change below the species level). This is why we have Shi-Tzu's, Great Danes, and black labs...but they're all still dogs. Never has it been observed that one species, even at the singlecelled level, can change into another species.

And if this evolutionary thing is true, then the mosquitoes that existed millions of years ago should be diferent than the mosquitoes found today. but they've found mosquitoes in amber that they claim lived with the dinosaurs millions of years ago...but guess what, they're just like mosquitoes found today. They didn't change species at all.

[Underground_Network]

They didn't change species because there was no need to. For all we know we came out of nowhere. But I still don't believe we were "created" by some higher power. Science may have yet to prove that evolution is 100% true. But look at the ideas/theories and they seem more plausible than creationism crap. Again, for all we know a bunch of atoms just decided to say, "Hey, lets form a new being and call it a namuh!" 8) In other words we can't prove any of the theories thrown at us. There is basically absolutely no way to prove evolution or creationism, but evolution has a much more logical argument behind it than creationism. I am somewhat religious, but I'm not some religious fanatic who truly believes that god, or some other higher power created us. Anyone who chooses religion over science, is choosing a bunch of opinions and garbage over real facts. Science has shown us almost everything we've come to know, and a lot of the things in the bible have been proven false; through science!

[Atonement]

Okay, to me, creationism and evolution are one in hand and hand. I believe God made the plan that monkeys should turn into humans. Then, once the evolution was complete, that was Adam and Eve.

[Serenity]

Science may have yet to prove that evolution is 100% true. But look at the ideas/theories and they seem more plausible than creationism crap.

Anyone who chooses religion over science, is choosing a bunch of opinions and garbage over real facts.

Ok this is probably the most biased thing I've ever seen. You didn't make this thread to debate anything, you made it to rag on people who believe in a higher power and to in essence call them all stupid. That's really nice, shows off your intelligence, too.

a lot of the things in the bible have been proven false; through science!

Like what exactly, All-Knowing One?

[Underground_Network]

Oh lets see, maybe the geocentric theory? Or the idea that the sun rotates around the Earth. It also states that the world is flat... I could go find a bunch, but those two are still fresh in my mind from my history class. And I didn't intend to make this thread to rag on religious people. I'm just fed up with 4IrishJustice. If he can mock evolutionists, then I can mock creationists. I'll believe in creationism, if someone can freaking prove it!

Btw, I'm not an atheist, so I technically believe in a higher power.

[LateForTheSky]

Okay, to me, creationism and evolution are one in hand and hand. I believe God made the plan that monkeys should turn into humans. Then, once the evolution was complete, that was Adam and Eve.

Was adam and eve not a parable?

Anyways I beleive life is one chemical reaction after another, big bang created the universe u may ask how the chemical reaction that made the big bang happened. Truth is I dont know its far to long ago and its on to big a scale. One theory i have is that the big bang is a chemical reaction but it came from a superior world. We are in some testube in a science classroom of superior beings. You may think this is ridiculous but if u think about it we look at small life through microscopes, they dont even know we exist. Same for us I think to0 big and too complicated for us to understand

[Serenity]

Oh lets see, maybe the geocentric theory? Or the idea that the sun rotates around the Earth. It also states that the world is flat... I could go find a bunch, but those two are still fresh in my mind from my history class.

You want a real debate, yes? How about some evidence maybe? Some real facts that you love so much?

If he can mock evolutionists, then I can mock creationists.

HAVE I MENTIONED THAT YOU'RE KIND OF BIASED.

I'll believe in creationism, if someone can freaking prove it!

And I'm assuming you believe in evolution because you can FREAKING PROVE it's true. Right?

[Underground_Network]

Omg, do you read my posts? I can't prove evolution is real. It just has some scientific backing (I mean we can see monkeys, we can compare them to us, and notice the similarities) while with creationism, you have to first prove there is a higher power, and I haven't seen any do that yet. Once someone proves there is a higher power, they'll be one step closer to proving creationism. I'm sorry for my outburst, its just that I guess I'm sort of anti-religious (despite the fact that I'm Jewish). I don't want you to think that my prejudice is causing me to post tainted facts, because I am not posting tainted facts.

[Serenity]

I can't prove evolution is real. It just has some scientific backing.

You believe it even though you can't prove it and yet find people who believe in creationism to be foolish because they can't prove that. You think evolution is more believable because it has scientific backing. How do you know that scientific backing wasn't put into place by a higher being? You don't, you choose to BELIEVE it does, just as people who believe in creationism choose to BELIEVE a higher being did create life.

I don't want you to think that my prejudice is causing me to post tainted facts, because I am not posting tainted facts.

You're not posting facts, you're posting what you BELIEVE to be fact. You've said it yourself, nothing you're saying can in any way be PROVEN.

[Underground_Network]

Hell no. I've posted tons of facts. Like the fact that life has existed on Earth for millions of years. Like the fact that the Bible has some things in that have been disproven by scientists (geocentric theory and the fact that the world is flat). I posted other things too, something about prehistoric humans, I think its on the first or second page. You cannot say I have not posted facts. We all have the right to interpret facts how we feel, but the way we interpret them does not make them not facts. I have posted facts.

[Serenity]

Like the fact that life has existed on Earth for millions of years.

Ok and which argument was that supporting exactly? Theory of Common Sense?

Like the fact that the Bible has some things in that have been disproven by scientists (geocentric theory and the fact that the world is flat).

You wanna give some scriptures? Not just heresay?

I posted other things too, something about prehistoric humans, I think its on the first or second page.

This?

LIFE HAS EXISTED ON EARTH FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS. ITS CALLED SINGLE-CELLED ORGANISMS. Anything that has metabolism, anything that respirates; is considered a living being. And considering the fact that single-celled organisms do that, and they have proof that they existed millions of years ago on Earth, you cannot prove that life did not exist on Earth millions of years ago. Everything has built its way up. Microorganisms have already proven to us they have the ability to shape form in a time range of several hundred to several thousands of years. So if you give a microorganism hundreds of millions of years to change, imagine what it could develop into. First something small (I mean like smaller than an insect), than maybe something the size of an insect, then just keep growing and growing over thousand year periods (probably much longer than thousand year periods) and eventually primeates, and then humans. They have yet to prove this 100% scientifically, but if you look at what scientists are telling us about microorganisms/single-celled organisms, you'll understand that life on Earth has the ability to shift/change, and don't forget about adaptations. Humans over time have changed, its all in the genes. They believe that most people are afraid of spiders and snakes and react quickly b/c it was programmed into our DNA for that to occur so our prehistoric ancestors could react quickly and avoid being bitten by a poisonous snake or spider. I mean, they can definitely prove that we developed from prehistoric humans, and look how different we are, compare a prehistoric human's skeleton to yours and be amazed at what you see.

I have found one fact in all of that: life existed millions of years ago.

[4IrishJustice]

This really is going to go no where. Valtastically, you're right, he's just a biased, ignorent hypocrit who wants to argue instead of debate. I'm leaving this thread and frankly not comming back to anything started by Underground Network.

My offer still stands if anyone who believes in Evolution wants to PM me with REASONS and not just blunt opionions and beliefs, feel free.

[Attax]

I am just going to say to everyone who may wish to debate the guy above, DONT. Creationism requires faith, and faith is belief in something that has virtually no proof, he already has his mind made up, there is no point to it. Just allow him to believe in creationism instead of hardcore proof backed up by just about every scientist in the world.

First of all i will be the second to post on creationism to prove to you how it is false.

A) The world must be 6000 years old because if you look at it MATHEMATICALLY (i know something that obviously is really there) if every person from 6.5 million years ago, every family on average having the world average (3. somethin kids) the world would be populated with 4.36 X 10^396 that is scientific notation... u can see how that is innacurate compared to 6,000,000,000. where as when you do it for 6000 years you get apporximately 6.3x10^9 about 6.3 BILLION same as about our current total


Now lets look at carbon dating:
One main key to why we can prove carbon dating false: IT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE UP TO 2 MILLION YEARS OFF!!! just slightly innacurate


Now lets look at this logically:
Evolution is the scientific theory that everything that is came around from a series of random accidents. Evolution (as a whole) must be wrong because accident is defined as:an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss; casualty; mishap (American Heritage Dictionary) NOW logically taking this Conotatively from the dictionary that means that evolution was not meant to become what it currently is: THEREFORE the thought process which decided what evolution is was just not meant to exist and that it is a false mishap then evolutino presiding from this false mishap must be false as well... THIS IS WHY EVOLUTION PROVES ITSELF WRONG and also there is no proof of Macro evolution just microevolution (which i do believe in)


Do not say anything about Darwin's finches because that is just microevolution which is adapting to ones natural surroundings aka survival of the fittest... they did not change species or genus or whatever



CREATIONISM IS TRUE COME TOWARDS THE LIGHT:yeah:

[Underground_Network]

The world is way older than 6000 years old.. Humans have not been around for 6.5 million years, but trust me when I say the world has been around way longer than 6000 years...I just want to know what you're smoking because you're argument may have "disproved" evolution, but nowhere did you prove creationism is true, and may I see a link to a CREDIBLE website that says carbon dating can be 2 MILLION years off?

[Serenity]

Ok I have one thing to say in response to your rather ridiculous post:

First of all i will be the second to post on creationism to prove to you how it is false.

A) The world must be 6000 years old

How exactly is that proving creationism is false? Please, enlighten me.

[Underground_Network]

Lol, Val, read the end of his post, he's not very grammatically savvy, he was trying to disprove the theory of evolution. He was supporting creationism.

NOTE: In the end he failed to prove or disprove either theory. =/

[Whisper]

Because

A) theres no way in hell the earth is that young

B) The bibles a load of crap written by the sand people of ancient past when the earth was a day old and flat

Science is fact
evolution is fact

Faith was created
religion and the countless gods created
to give us a sens of meaning to help us cope with the unknown

humans are weak
scared of the unknown
like death
the idea of heaven is extremely comforting when were dealing with the death of a loved one
The idea of creationalism was created hundreds of years ago to give us a sense of meaning
to give us an answer we could grasp at for where we came from
why were here

we were to young to understand science
were learning more and more everyday
and unlike religion
when a new fact enters into science we accept it, learn from it and keep moving forward
in religion when a obstacle shows up you kill it, burry it and deny it
pathedic



Do I have a problem with the concept of god?
no
it makes people feel better so it is important
but its nothing more then an elaborate story
designed to comfort those in need
and it should be treated as such
i'm tired of laws being made based off a story
of wars being started for no reason
its bullshit

[Underground_Network]

Because

A) theres no way in hell the earth is that young

B) The bibles a load of crap written by the sand people of ancient past when the earth was a day old and flat

Science is fact
evolution is fact

Faith was created
religion and the countless gods created
to give us a sens of meaning to help us cope with the unknown

humans are weak
scared of the unknown
like death
the idea of heaven is extremely comforting when were dealing with the death of a loved one
The idea of creationalism was created hundreds of years ago to give us a sense of meaning
to give us an answer we could grasp at for where we came from
why were here

we were to young to understand science
were learning more and more everyday
and unlike religion
when a new fact enters into science we accept it, learn from it and keep moving forward
in religion when a obstacle shows up you kill it, burry it and deny it
pathedic

QFT
Finally, someone who truly understands.

[Maverick]

Just for future reference you really don't need to quote a big paragraph twice when it's posted right above you.

[Underground_Network]

Ok, soz. You have a point. I just was finally happy that someone agreed with me (and made sense).

[Prince Jellyfish]

Whisper and Underground Network have just restored my faith in mankind. HUZZAH!

<b>PROTIP:</b><i>The only real miracles are man-made.</i>
:cool:

[Attax]

lol i was agrivated because this is something i have a strong opinion about lol what i meant to say was y creationism is true and evolution is false lol

[TakenAway--x]

I am what people would call a hybridist.

I believe in evolution, but I also believe that there is something out there that is beyond human comprehension. I believe something, even if not as divine as we think it may be, created us.

You will hear many Christians say that we are built in the image of our God. What if that is true? With the form that we have taken, it is not so far fetched to imagine our "god" or "gods" to look just as we do. However, we have to realize that they may not look exactly as we do, or they might not even take human form.

The human form is based on the ape, so chances are that our creators look nothing like us.

Humans did not just appear out of nowhere. As time evolved, we lost most of our hair to adapt with the changes of the earth, and as time goes by, we notice there are more features in us that we do not need anymore. I find it funny that people say things such as, "humans first appeared around...". We never just "appeared". We evolved. We became what we are.

But something made us what we are. Humans are too amazing to pass off as a mistake. We were the result of a careful "experiment".

Look at the millions of galaxies surrounding us. Look at the stars. Look at the person you love. How can something so wonderful exist without reason? Without meaning?

There is a reason that we are here. There may not be a definite explanation, as you cannot explain the unexplainable, but there is a reason. Everything has a reason.

[Hyper]

In a hurry right now..

But this ''debate'' is really another bashing..

I belive in a bit of both, I don't agree on that the world is 6000 years old or that we necessarily lived with dinosaurs or that earth is the only habbitable planet... And I belive there were a few others but I can't remember them right now..

I belive evolution is just a part of the world that for me.. God created.