Obese mannequins causing a conflict

[Manjusri]

I'm not sure if any of you have heard, but recently obese mannequins were displayed in public shopping centers. This caused quite the commotion, originating from reddit and eventually reaching the larger media.

This is now causing a debate on whether or not obese mannequins are acceptable, or if they're just wrong.

Department store mannequins with plus-sized curves have had quite an oversized reaction in the blogosphere. When a user of the online forum Reddit posted a photo of a big boned display model under the heading "Anyone else horrified that they make obese mannequins too now?" it received hundreds of comments and thousands of "up" votes.

"Obese people being sold clothes?" said one typical post in favor of the mannequins. "That's just treating them like people."

"OMG, it's about time! I've always hated seeing the size I have to get displayed on a much smaller model, then trying it on to see that it looks completely different on me," read another supportive comment.

And another said in defense of the mannequin: "It's not fat, it's just big foamed."

Not everyone on the site agreed that bigger is better.

"I just fear that obese will become the new normal as we try to be politically correct about it. Being obese is not the same as being black/gay/whatever," one commented.

Another wrote, "The problem is that most people who are fat take any medically accepted way of reducing their weight as ridicule. They then attempt to dissemble said fact and prove to you how they are a special case and that you are really being judgmental for assuming that it's the doughnuts they are chugging that are making them fat. Sorry, I'm done with the fat people sympathy wagon."

Full article: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/fat-mannequin-stirs-reddit-debate-obesity-overweight-consumers/story?id=17820634

While i don't think that obese mannequins are as bad of a thing as some people are making it, i don't see it as entirely right either.

If we continue to integrate over-weight friendly advertisements, people are going to start seeing being obese as the new normal. This works in the same sense that the underweight models / mannequins do, neither of them are right.

I have yet to understand what is so difficult about creating an average weight mannequin. Being anorexic isn't healthy, but neither is being obese. What's so difficult about finding a happy medium?

[Lost in the Echo]

This is stupid. It's just a mannequin. People are always getting offended over something stupid. Sometimes, I think people purposely look for things that offend them, just so they can bitch about it.

[Iron Man]

Are we actually having this discussion? How are the mannequins offending anyone? That is like saying I don't like the regular sized mannequins because I'm not regular sized.

[Skyline]

This is stupid. It's just a mannequin. People are always getting offended over something stupid. Sometimes, I think people purposely look for things that offend them, just so they can bitch about it.

Read my mind! I couldn't have said it better myself.

[workingatperfect]

I don't see a problem with it. It's more fitting to have a plus size mannequin in a plus size section than the skinny mannequins there... And I agree that it can be really disheartening to see something on a mannequin and have it look horrible on your body.

But really, it's just a damn mannequin. It's not going to suddenly convince people that being obese is ok.

[lolrrtt]

fuckking stupid
keep them the skinny mannequins
obese mannequins will just reinforce the idea that it's ok to be a panda

[ShatteredWings]

I... What...?
Really.
It's "bad" to have plus size mannequins, okay.
God forbid we model clothes on plastic objects the size that they people buying them are.

Also let's put in to perspective.
It's reddit users who are ~so offended~ (read: trolling because l0l fat pplz)
Don't cater to the fuckin trolls...

[TheBigUnit]

It depends how big the mannequin is in my opinion, if you follow gabriel iglesias' five levels of fat I believe the mannequin should be at most a level 3 preferably lVl 2

[Cicero]

I can see how it's offensive, if I personally were obese, I would look at that and just think they are mocking me.

I really doubt people who are obese want to be pointed out about how obese they are, and just seeing a "statue" that is obese would make them feel they are being pointed out among the crowd. People who are obese already don't like shopping in the area that says "Plus size", why make it worse and put "plus sized" mannequins in the "plus sized" area of the store?

I also believe doing that doesn't make society more productive when it comes to eating right. It's incorporating in society that its ok and healthy to be obese, when its not. When someone is overweight or even obese, it puts a huge strain on the body. The heart works that much harder trying to pump blood throughout the body.

And lastly, these plus sized mannequins can make a teenager who's already obese feel even worse about shopping in that area. They would feel like they would be looked at weird, especially by other [teenage] girls. I try to imagine myself in something similar to that, and I just picture myself going into the acne section and it saying specifically "Acne section" with a mannequin of a bunch of acne. I'd be extremely embarrassed. People struggle with weight, and doing that will make them think worse of themselves (maybe). People who are overweight don't want to be pointed out about how they are overweight, because they already know. They're the ones who has to look in the mirror everyday, I think after looking in the mirror just once, they realize it.

Also, on a side note of what I said about it being seen as the new normal...

I agree with what that person said, being obese isn't like being black, white, Asian etc. most likely, it's due to themselves. Obese people say "Oh it's my genes", well, it's really not. Their the ones who decide to put that brownie in their mouth. Genes CAN be a trigger, but not the cause. Blaming the genes is an excuse. Although in some cases, you may be allergic to a food which may cause weight gain. My cousin who was overweight was allergic to dairy, she never knew until one day she decided to stop all dairy. Within 4 months or so, she lost 8-12 lb just from her not eating or drinking dairy. So cases like that are an exception (within a full year, she looked like any other average weight person). People are always trying to blame another cause for different things such as obesity, but what it really comes down to is exercise and diet. If you don't have those, then you will gain body fat (diet as in what you eat).

[CharlieFinley]

Heaven forfend we let them see what the clothes will actually look like on them. Yes, society has a responsibility to ameliorate the obesity epidemic, but that responsibility should not interfere with them having access to all the feasible societal services and benefits.

[Gigablue]

I really don't see why anyone would care about the size of mannequins. Don't we have bigger problems to deal with? If someone is that bothered by it, I guess they shouldn't shop at that particular store.

[workingatperfect]

I can see how it's offensive, if I personally were obese, I would look at that and just think they are mocking me.

I really doubt people who are obese want to be pointed out about how obese they are, and just seeing a "statue" that is obese would make them feel they are being pointed out among the crowd. People who are obese already don't like shopping in the area that says "Plus size", why make it worse and put "plus sized" mannequins in the "plus sized" area of the store?

I also believe doing that doesn't make society more productive when it comes to eating right. It's incorporating in society that its ok and healthy to be obese, when its not. When someone is overweight or even obese, it puts a huge strain on the body. The heart works that much harder trying to pump blood throughout the body.

And lastly, these plus sized mannequins can make a teenager who's already obese feel even worse about shopping in that area. They would feel like they would be looked at weird, especially by other [teenage] girls. I try to imagine myself in something similar to that, and I just picture myself going into the acne section and it saying specifically "Acne section" with a mannequin of a bunch of acne. I'd be extremely embarrassed. People struggle with weight, and doing that will make them think worse of themselves (maybe). People who are overweight don't want to be pointed out about how they are overweight, because they already know. They're the ones who has to look in the mirror everyday, I think after looking in the mirror just once, they realize it.


I appreciate what you're trying to say, but as a person who is overweight and just a size or two from having to shop in the plus size section (18 is typically the biggest size in juniors), it's not offensive to me. I would like it. Shopping is really hard and upsetting for bigger people. You see a shirt on a mannequin and you love it, then you go try it on and it looks horrendous because you don't have the body shape for it. It's not a good feeling. And I mean, it's not like the mannequins have freaking fat rolls or are like Mama from Gilbert Grape, at least not what I can tell from googling it. What I do find mildly offensive is that people think this is a problem, when it's not. I really don't see how a mannequin promotes being obese. Should all plus size models be out of work too then? Or actors/actresses?

[Cicero]

I appreciate what you're trying to say, but as a person who is overweight and just a size or two from having to shop in the plus size section (18 is typically the biggest size in juniors), it's not offensive to me. I would like it. Shopping is really hard and upsetting for bigger people. You see a shirt on a mannequin and you love it, then you go try it on and it looks horrendous because you don't have the body shape for it. It's not a good feeling. And I mean, it's not like the mannequins have freaking fat rolls or are like Mama from Gilbert Grape, at least not what I can tell from googling it. What I do find mildly offensive is that people think this is a problem, when it's not. I really don't see how a mannequin promotes being obese. Should all plus size models be out of work too then? Or actors/actresses?

No actor or model should be out of a job. I really like the fact that they have plus sized models because no one should ever wanna be super skinny. Beauty isn't defined by the number on some stupid clothing, it's defined by attitude. I'm just saying that being obese isn't healthy, and I know that some women who are plus sized feel embarrassed by the name itself. It should have a different name, or even a different number.

[workingatperfect]

I'm just making a point for anyone that thinks that these mannequins are going to make people think it's ok or normal or be overweight. Wouldn't plus size models have the same effect? Except that's not the point of them. The models are to help people feel less ashamed of themselves and help them see that they can still be beautiful. The mannequins are to make shopping a little bit less embarrassing and disappointing, not more. It's not like all of a sudden I'm going to be like "Oh, there's a mannequin my size, it must be ok to be overweight. I'm gonna go off my diet." Of course having to shop in the plus section is embarrassing, but it's more crushing to see a dress on one body, and have it look ridiculous on yours, and the mannequin isn't going to add the the embarrassment much anyway.

[FreeFall]

My first thought was to dress him as Santa but then I thought, nah FreeFall it sounded funny but it would only piss off everyone and you'd be a bad bitch, shame on me ._.

Anyways. I'm not bothered by mannequins unless they have those weird tall and skinny necks that could never support the weight of our heads, or are anatomically correct (male and female) with erect nipples to boot and sort of toe that sex-doll line. Fail to see how this even offended people.

[Amaryllis]

Everyone has a different body. Some people are underweight, some are overweight, and we have people of all sorts of shapes and sizes in between and beyond. The fact is, your weight or your physical attractiveness isn't going to be written on your gravestone when you're dead.

People will find all sorts of things offensive. I could just as well say hey, I'm orthorexic and I find all those health facts and calorie counts next to everything on the menu offensive. But someone else will find the lack of health warnings offensive.

Some people are obese, who cares? If the existence of underweight or overweight people offends them, they need to get over themselves. It's like when people tell others "No, you can't marry someone of the same sex," what's it to you? We will look the way we look and want to look, it's none of their business. We don't live to please you.

The world is filled with things and people that hurt us, and not one of us controls Earth and its inhabitants, the only people we operate are ourselves. A mannequin is just a just a bunch of plastic, paint and metal someone stuck together, a magazine is just paper and ink. None of us here are babies, and society isn't going to baby proof itself for us.

We strive to be whoever we want to be, and honestly, do any of you actually think most people want to lose weight for health? Please, I can promise you over 50% of people strive to be 'healthy' do so because they want to look better, whatever they say. So let people be what they want, because nothing controls them except their minds.

When people make a big deal about appearances, about how big or small a mannequin is, how you should eat this and not that, how we must be this, must be that, the worst the world will get. We're becoming obsessed with how we look, more so than ever before. And I don't know about you but I don't want to spend my life obsessing over food and exercise and health and mannequins when I could be living.

[Human]

as long as it isn't influencing people or whatever it's fine

[TigerBoy]

No actor or model should be out of a job. I really like the fact that they have plus sized models because no one should ever wanna be super skinny.
Personally I don't really like the idea of either extreme without "the rest": I'd rather have a range of body sizes or if the state wants to enforce healthy habits (which is a different argument again) they should ban extremes and insist all models have a "healthy average" body type. Same with mannequins.


and I know that some women who are plus sized feel embarrassed by the name itself. It should have a different name, or even a different number.
"Plus sized" is already a euphemism for "fat". Any other euphemism would just become stigmatised too. "Hefty", "Husky", "Heavy", none of them are unkind, but they do sound silly to British ears where it sounds to us like the US is trying too hard to be PC. Women who are worried about what they are called are missing the point: the issue is they are unhealthily fat, not how other people describe them. Changing the name won't make them lose weight, but then they'll be the same ones blaming their weight on glandular disorders etc (which statistically cannot be the case for more than a small percentage of those who make that claim).

The kindest thing we can do is to ensure that marketing offers a balance of body shapes, and I would suggest a bias towards the healthier body shapes since we know that marketing the "too thin" has caused problems and "too fat" is already an issue.

[Mortal Coil]

Being anorexic isn't healthy, but neither is being obese. What's so difficult about finding a happy medium?

Actually, being fat is not unhealthy, nor has it been shown to be truly controllable in the long term even with severe calorie restriction and lots of exercise. Here (http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=200731) are (http://www.jabfm.org/content/25/4/422.full) my (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19925614) sources (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449014)

Oh, also this one. (http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v10/n6/abs/nm0604-563.html)


Look, the fact is that there are a lot of people who fit into the plus size category, and mannequins are there so that customers can see what the clothes would look like on them. Where's the point of that if the mannequins don't have the same shape as you?
As for the idea that this might make fat become the new norm, that's really fat-shamey. Fat is not inherently unhealthy. Fat does not indicate a moral failing. Fat is just another body type.

[TigerBoy]

Actually, being fat is not unhealthy, nor has it been shown to be truly controllable in the long term even with severe calorie restriction and lots of exercise. Here (http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=200731) are (http://www.jabfm.org/content/25/4/422.full) my (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19925614) sources (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10449014)

Oh, also this one. (http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v10/n6/abs/nm0604-563.html)


Look, the fact is that there are a lot of people who fit into the plus size category, and mannequins are there so that customers can see what the clothes would look like on them. Where's the point of that if the mannequins don't have the same shape as you?
As for the idea that this might make fat become the new norm, that's really fat-shamey. Fat is not inherently unhealthy. Fat does not indicate a moral failing. Fat is just another body type.

"Fat shaming" as bullying is not right, and some people are unspeakably cruel about the issue to the point of dehumanising and demonising overweight people. That is unacceptable.

It is a fact that there is a health impact and associated costs to society incurred by a population that is getting fatter, and society will either have to bear that cost or look to ways of reducing it.

I don't agree that your data supports the point that "fat is not inherently unhealthy". The professional consensus is that weight gain is associated with increased risk factors for a variety of health conditions including life-limiting ones.

Your cited studies are concerned primarily with mortality, and don't include risk factors for quality of life and life-limiting conditions. From the perspective of the impact of weight on society, it isn't the deaths that are the problem, it is the cost of keeping people alive that is an issue.

Your first source itself contradicts your statement and concludes: "Underweight and obesity, particularly higher levels of obesity, were associated with increased mortality relative to the normal weight category." While it goes on to say that medicine has got better at keeping people alive, the conclusion here is they are being kept alive in spite of being overweight, at increased cost to the taxpayer.

The only one of those studies that seemed to genuinely support your argument is the West Jerusalem study that claimed a reduction in hazard ratio per unit gain of BMI. I can't access the full data to see, but clearly at some point BMI gain does not extrapolate to a 0%HR (immortality), so there will be a lot more subtlety to the conclusions than those made in the abstract: for example we'd need to know at what BMI the study HR tends towards unity and whether this intercepts with significant HR for life-limiting / quality of life factors.

Body mass can have health and survival advantages so while I can believe that there is a trade off to be made, my suspicion is that would only be associated with lower gains in BMI before becoming classed as medically 'overweight'.

[Mortal Coil]

"Fat shaming" as bullying is not right, and some people are unspeakably cruel about the issue to the point of dehumanising and demonising overweight people. That is unacceptable.

It is a fact that there is a health impact and associated costs to society incurred by a population that is getting fatter, and society will either have to bear that cost or look to ways of reducing it.

I don't agree that your data supports the point that "fat is not inherently unhealthy". The professional consensus is that weight gain is associated with increased risk factors for a variety of health conditions including life-limiting ones.

Your cited studies are concerned primarily with mortality, and don't include risk factors for quality of life and life-limiting conditions. From the perspective of the impact of weight on society, it isn't the deaths that are the problem, it is the cost of keeping people alive that is an issue.

Your first source itself contradicts your statement and concludes: "Underweight and obesity, particularly higher levels of obesity, were associated with increased mortality relative to the normal weight category." While it goes on to say that medicine has got better at keeping people alive, the conclusion here is they are being kept alive in spite of being overweight, at increased cost to the taxpayer.

The only one of those studies that seemed to genuinely support your argument is the West Jerusalem study that claimed a reduction in hazard ratio per unit gain of BMI. I can't access the full data to see, but clearly at some point BMI gain does not extrapolate to a 0%HR (immortality), so there will be a lot more subtlety to the conclusions than those made in the abstract: for example we'd need to know at what BMI the study HR tends towards unity and whether this intercepts with significant HR for life-limiting / quality of life factors.

Body mass can have health and survival advantages so while I can believe that there is a trade off to be made, my suspicion is that would only be associated with lower gains in BMI before becoming classed as medically 'overweight'.

You're right about the first source, sorry about that.

What I am saying is that the OP is being alarmist by saying that the introduction of mannequins that - *gasp* - actually look like the prospective buyers, will lead to obesity becoming the cultural norm, or the ideal.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

I agree with what seems to be Olly's opinion here. Bullying is wrong even on inanimate objects.

Off-topic: POST 400! (Cuatroscientos!!!)

[Erasmus]

Really, who cares? The freaking mannequins! It shouldn't have taken this long for them to actually look like normal-sized people, not skinny anorexic girls, but the reactions these people are having is absolutely ridiculous!

[TigerBoy]

I agree with what seems to be Olly's opinion here. Bullying is wrong even on inanimate objects.


I was just agreeing with Mortal Coil around the point of bullying over weight people.

As far as "bullying", it is a subjective term. Society has reason to want to encourage people to be healthy. Some would see smoking laws as 'bullying' by the state, but they have not been enacted as a result of prejudice. If the state were to legislate to skew advertising to a healthier body type, I wouldn't see that as necessarily being 'bullying' myself.

In refutation of those arguing that fat mannequins normalise obesity, I suggest that it is too late - in the US you already have normalised body weights that exceed those of other countries. I suggest it is essential that the state pursues a rational approach to the issue: educate the population and at the same time do not offer special dispensations for 'politically correct' reasons that accommodate unhealthy perceptions.

Many believe that society should not be expected to indefinitely bear the increasing costs of an increasingly overweight population. For example in the UK some emergency services levy a surcharge on occasion for dealing with obese individuals simply because they incur the use of specialised equipment, additional manpower etc.

In the same way the Christians are taught to 'hate the sin, not the sinner', society is increasingly taking the position to 'hate the fat, not the fat person'.

[Majin Vegeta]

that's teaching people that it's ok to be overweight which is just a pathetic way of avoiding their problems. it's not ok and they should exercise and eat better. you don't have to be skinny but don't insult those that are who may just have a faster metabolism or a healthier lifestyle
not sure if this is off topic but it also bothers me how big portions are at restaurants. can't they just serve 3/4 of it and make it cost 3/4 of the price too. I never finish it lol