Vegetarianism / Veganism [Archive]

Manjusri

January 5th, 2013, 08:39 PM

Were humans meant to consume animals?

Well, let's look at a couple of our evolutionary traits:

Our canine teeth resemble those of a herbivore, not a carnivore. Therefore we haven't evolved to be carnivores.
We cannot run fast enough to catch our food, nor are we capable of running for longer periods of time so as to catch up to whatever we were chasing.
Our jaw is capable of moving in a circular motion, which is a trait of a herbivore. Carnivores can only move their jaws vertically.
Our digestive system is not adapted to eat raw meat, which is why humans get sick if they ingest raw meat. (With the exception of some people who have over time been able to build their immune system to fight off bacteria from raw meat)

In terms of biology and evolution, no. Humans were not meant to consume meat. However with technology we are capable of cooking raw meat to a temperature that kills any harmful bacteria, so our bodies are no longer susceptible to getting sick from consuming other animals.

What do you think about animal rights and veganism?

I believe in animal rights. No animal should have to go through abuse / torture in order to be consumed by the rest of the population. If animals are to be consumed, they should be put through the process with as little pain and suffering possible.

People have the right to believe in whatever they want and that includes being a vegan / vegetarian. I'm perfectly fine with that. The problem with some subgroups of people is that they are extremists in whatever they advocate for - this, i'm not okay with.

Being a vegan / vegetarian is an individual's choice, so is eating any other way. Vegans have no right to chastise other people for eating what they choose, that's just hypocrisy.

Jess

January 5th, 2013, 08:42 PM

Well, let's look at a couple of our evolutionary traits:

Our canine teeth resemble those of a herbivore, not a carnivore. Therefore we haven't evolved to be carnivores.
We cannot run fast enough to catch our food, nor are we capable of running for longer periods of time so as to catch up to whatever we were chasing.
Our jaw is capable of moving in a circular motion, which is a trait of a herbivore. Carnivores can only move their jaws vertically.
Our digestive system is not adapted to eat raw meat, which is why humans get sick if they ingest raw meat. (With the exception of some people who have over time been able to build their immune system to fight off bacteria from raw meat)

In terms of biology and evolution, no. Humans were not meant to consume meat. However with technology we are capable of cooking raw meat to a temperature that kills any harmful bacteria, so our bodies are no longer susceptible to getting sick from consuming other animals.

I believe in animal rights. No animal should have to go through abuse / torture in order to be consumed by the rest of the population. If animals are to be consumed, they should be put through the process with as little pain and suffering possible.

People have the right to believe in whatever they want and that includes being a vegan / vegetarian. I'm perfectly fine with that. The problem with some subgroups of people is that they are extremists in whatever they advocate for - this, i'm not okay with.

Being a vegan / vegetarian is an individual's choice, so is eating any other way. Vegans have no right to chastise other people for eating what they choose, that's just hypocrisy.

This sums up my opinions perfectly. I love meat and I have no problems with vegans/vegetarians , and I believe in animal rights.

Gigablue

January 5th, 2013, 11:34 PM

I think animals are there for us to eat. I personally think that humans are above animals. Animals hunt and kill each other, so why can't humans hunt animals for food. I don't like, however, when people hunt for fun. I only believe in hunting for food. Not just hunt to kill. But hunt to eat.

Humans aren't above animals, we are animals.

There are certain nutrients and minerals you can only get through meat, and meat is the easiest, cheapest way to get protein. Meat is very important.

You can get a complete diet with all necessary nutrients through plants, it's just a lot harder. You can also get protein fairly easily, and growing plants is easier than raising animals.

Well, let's look at a couple of our evolutionary traits:
Our canine teeth resemble those of a herbivore, not a carnivore. Therefore we haven't evolved to be carnivores.

We also haven't evolved as herbivores. We don't have as robust grinding teeth. Our teeth suggest a mixed diet, of plants and meat.

We cannot run fast enough to catch our food, nor are we capable of running for longer periods of time so as to catch up to whatever we were chasing.

We can run for a very long time to catch prey. That was the primary hunting strategy of early humans, tire the prey out, then kill it. Humans evolved sweat glands specifically to cool ourselves, allowing for greater endurance. We also lost our body hair for the same purpose. Humans are very well adapted hunters.

Our jaw is capable of moving in a circular motion, which is a trait of a herbivore. Carnivores can only move their jaws vertically.

Humans are omnivores, not carnivores, so we have more mobile jaws. Most omnivores have jaws that can move like those of herbivores.

Our digestive system is not adapted to eat raw meat, which is why humans get sick if they ingest raw meat. (With the exception of some people who have over time been able to build their immune system to fight off bacteria from raw meat)

The digestive system used to be able to divest raw meat. The development of cooking rendered this useless, and thus it lost that ability.

In terms of biology and evolution, no. Humans were not meant to consume meat. However with technology we are capable of cooking raw meat to a temperature that kills any harmful bacteria, so our bodies are no longer susceptible to getting sick from consuming other animals.

You reversed cause and effect. Humans developed cooking, and thus lost the ability to digest raw meat, not the other way around.

I believe in animal rights. No animal should have to go through abuse / torture in order to be consumed by the rest of the population. If animals are to be consumed, they should be put through the process with as little pain and suffering possible.

People have the right to believe in whatever they want and that includes being a vegan / vegetarian. I'm perfectly fine with that. The problem with some subgroups of people is that they are extremists in whatever they advocate for - this, i'm not okay with.

Being a vegan / vegetarian is an individual's choice, so is eating any other way. Vegans have no right to chastise other people for eating what they choose, that's just hypocrisy.

I agree with this. People should be able to choose what they eat, but shouldn't force their decisions on others. Animals should be treated as ethically as possible.

Cicero

January 5th, 2013, 11:43 PM

Well, let's look at a couple of our evolutionary traits:

Our canine teeth resemble those of a herbivore, not a carnivore. Therefore we haven't evolved to be carnivores.
We cannot run fast enough to catch our food, nor are we capable of running for longer periods of time so as to catch up to whatever we were chasing.
Our jaw is capable of moving in a circular motion, which is a trait of a herbivore. Carnivores can only move their jaws vertically.
Our digestive system is not adapted to eat raw meat, which is why humans get sick if they ingest raw meat. (With the exception of some people who have over time been able to build their immune system to fight off bacteria from raw meat)

In terms of biology and evolution, no. Humans were not meant to consume meat. However with technology we are capable of cooking raw meat to a temperature that kills any harmful bacteria, so our bodies are no longer susceptible to getting sick from consuming other animals.

I believe in animal rights. No animal should have to go through abuse / torture in order to be consumed by the rest of the population. If animals are to be consumed, they should be put through the process with as little pain and suffering possible.

People have the right to believe in whatever they want and that includes being a vegan / vegetarian. I'm perfectly fine with that. The problem with some subgroups of people is that they are extremists in whatever they advocate for - this, i'm not okay with.

Being a vegan / vegetarian is an individual's choice, so is eating any other way. Vegans have no right to chastise other people for eating what they choose, that's just hypocrisy.

Actually humans can eat raw meat, like sushi, or even beef, like steak or hamburger meat. The meat just has to be high quality. I've had tons of raw beef and sushi and never once got sick. Ever since I was 8 I've had sushi every week, and never got sick of sushi (maybe tired of it, but not sick). And I never have seen anyone eat food in a circular motion. I've even had raw (homemade, fresh) sausage (pork) and I didn't get sick. No animal is truly, and solely a carnivore. Wild dog have ended up eating plants. The only, truly, carnivorous animal is snakes.

Gigablue

January 5th, 2013, 11:56 PM

Actually humans can eat raw meat, like sushi, or even beef, like steak or hamburger meat. The meat just has to be high quality. I've had tons of raw beef and sushi and never once got sick. Ever since I was 8 I've had sushi every week, and never got sick of sushi (maybe tired of it, but not sick). And I never have seen anyone eat food in a circular motion. I've even had raw (homemade, fresh) sausage (pork) and I didn't get sick. No animal is truly, and solely a carnivore. Wild dog have ended up eating plants. The only, truly, carnivorous animal is snakes.

Humans can eat raw meat, but we can't really digest it. Our stomachs can't break it down fully, and there is a risk of food poisoning. While high quality meat minimizes this risk, it is still there, since the acid in our stomachs isn't concentrated enough to kill all the bacteria.

The circular motion means that the jaws are capable of moving from side to side. This is in contrast to carnivores, whose jaws more only up and down. It doesn't really move in a circle, but there is some sideways motion.

FreeFall

January 6th, 2013, 01:17 AM

Abyssal Echo

January 6th, 2013, 01:46 AM

I've tasted meat. I will refuse to live only on the fruit and vegetables, even if I'm not made to eat meat. The early man hunters seem to have done just fine.

I'm for animal rights as well, not PETA style, but am abuse and harsh control.

I agree with FreeFall I refuse to live on just fruit and vegitables. I'm also for Animal rights but deffinately not PETA style. I think they have gone to far.

Irishperson15

January 6th, 2013, 12:13 PM

I think it is because we are smarter than animals. That is not to say they are not smart, but look at the good (and evil) humans are capable of. I think humans should be omnivores (comsume plants and animals), therefore we should eat meat. However, I am against animals being mistreated and I would prefer if all animal products were Free-range, and that before the animal was killed for meat, it lived as happy a life as possible.

Mob Boss

January 6th, 2013, 12:33 PM

Uhh, I'm a vegan for health benefits, not animal rights. Don't get me wrong, I love animals, but people have hunted and eaten meat for years, and I see nothing wrong with it. I have seen really disturbing videos about how they treat some animals that will forever scar my brain though, which just motivates me to never want to eat any meat or dairy ever again. I'm strongly against the mistreatment of animals. I also don't agree with making people feel bad about their diet just because it doesn't match your beliefs. I know there are advantages and disadvantages to eating meat, but not very many disadvantages to eating a vegetarian or vegan diet, but to each his own.

HowlingSnail

January 6th, 2013, 03:53 PM

FreeFall

January 6th, 2013, 06:27 PM

I just go for the food chain argument. Other animals do it, so why shouldn't we? Would you go up to a lioness as she's hunting her prey and say "You shouldn't do that, it's wrong."? No, you wouldn't, so it's the same with humans.
I used to use that same response until someone schooled me in how it's not applicable to us like we like to think. I can't remember it verbatim, but it was something like how we're civilized and socialized and the other animals are designed to eat their diet while humans sort of made up their own. Like a lion can eat and digest their meat on the spot, where we have to go home and cook it like 70% of the time (I'm pulling numbers out of the top of my head, this number is not a fact, but my opinion). But I couldn't retort that so I feel to embarrassed to say it anymore ahaha.
If someone does try to force their life style choice/diet on me with that "the poor animals you cruel heartless evil wench!" I go with that, pity the plants you ripped from the earth and the bugs that used to enjoy the plant, you plant thief.
It doesn't work, but it pisses them off enough they leave me be.

Gigablue

January 6th, 2013, 08:10 PM

TheBigUnit

January 6th, 2013, 09:08 PM

Humans can eat raw meat, but we can't really digest it. Our stomachs can't break it down fully, and there is a risk of food poisoning. While high quality meat minimizes this risk, it is still there, since the acid in our stomachs isn't concentrated enough to kill all the bacteria.

The circular motion means that the jaws are capable of moving from side to side. This is in contrast to carnivores, whose jaws more only up and down. It doesn't really move in a circle, but there is some sideways motion.

Exactly, you do also know humans can't really digest plants either

Mob Boss

January 6th, 2013, 09:48 PM

What exactly are the health benefits. You just have to work a lot harder to get a balanced diet. You can get everything that you need, but you need a very diverse diet and often many supplements.

I figured someone would quote me on that after I said it. Believe it or not, I generally feel healthier as a vegan. I'm not saying everybody is the same, but this is what works for me and feels right so.... And there are many health benefits. I'm going to quote and source a few before someone comes along and asks for the facts, so here they are:
All of the following nutritional benefits come from a vegan diet full of foods such as fresh fruits and vegetables, whole grains, nuts, beans, and soy products.
1. Reduced saturated fats. Dairy products and meats contain a large amount of saturated fats. By reducing the amount of saturated fats from your diet, you’ll improve your health tremendously, especially when it comes to cardiovascular health.
2. Carbohydrates. Carbohydrates provide energy for your body. When you don’t have enough carbohydrates, your body will burn muscle tissue.
3. Fiber. A diet high in fiber (as vegan eating usually is) leads to healthier bowel movements. High fiber diets help fight against colon cancer.
4. Magnesium. Aiding in the absorption of calcium, magnesium is an often overlooked vitamin in importance to a healthy diet. Nuts, seeds, and dark leafy greens are an excellent source of magnesium.
5. Potassium. Potassium balances water and acidity in your body and stimulates the kidneys to eliminate toxins. Diets high in potassium have shown to reduce the risk of cardiovascular diseases and cancer.
6. Folate. This B vitamin is an important part of a healthy diet. Folate helps with cell repair, generating red and white blood cells, and metabolizing amino acids.
7. Antioxidants. For protection against cell damage, antioxidants are one of the best ways to help your body. Many researchers also believe that antioxidants help protect your body against forming some types of cancer.
8. Vitamin C. Besides boosting your immune system, Vitamin C also helps keep your gums healthy and helps your bruises heal faster. Vitamin C is also an antioxidant.
9. Vitamin E. This powerful vitamin has benefits for your heart, skin, eyes, brain, and may even help prevent Alzheimer’s Disease. A diet high in grains, nuts, and dark leafy greens is full of Vitamin E.
10. Phytochemicals. Plant-based foods provide phytochemicals, which help to prevent and heal the body from cancer, boost protective enzymes, and work with antioxidants in the body.
11. Protein. That protein is good for your body is no surprise. It may be a surprise to learn that most Americans eat too much protein and in forms such as red meat that are not healthy ways of getting protein. Beans, nuts, peas, lentils, and soy products are all great ways to get the right amount of protein in a vegan diet.
You can find this and more here. (http://www.nursingdegree.net/blog/19/57-health-benefits-of-going-vegan/)

An article published in Food Technology in October 2012 explained that plant-based diets either minimize or completely eliminate people's genetic propensity to developing chronic diseases, such as diabetes type 2, cardiovascular disease, and cancer.
Even more here! (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/149636.php?sv=d)

I'm sure someone will come along and give me articles about why veganism is bad, but it won't change my mind or my diet. But like I also said, I don't have a problem with people eating meat. That's their choice and this is mine. I just know what works for me, and this does. It isn't harder to get a balanced diet. It's easier if you find fresh produce and cheaper. And if you get a balanced vegan diet, there should be no need for supplements.

TheBigUnit

January 6th, 2013, 10:19 PM

I figured someone would quote me on that after I said it. Believe it or not, I generally feel healthier as a vegan. I'm not saying everybody is the same, but this is what works for me and feels right so.... And there are many health benefits. I'm going to quote and source a few before someone comes along and asks for the facts, so here they are:

You can find this and more here. (http://www.nursingdegree.net/blog/19/57-health-benefits-of-going-vegan/)

Even more here! (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/149636.php?sv=d)

I'm sure someone will come along and give me articles about why veganism is bad, but it won't change my mind or my diet. But like I also said, I don't have a problem with people eating meat. That's their choice and this is mine. I just know what works for me, and this does. It isn't harder to get a balanced diet. It's easier if you find fresh produce and cheaper. And if you get a balanced vegan diet, there should be no need for supplements.

Vegan diet all the way, being a vegan will make you healthy and maybe "clean" your body from "toxins", the thing for me is, is that I love meat too much to completely switch to vegan and there is no need for me too switch really , no need to really lose weight and all but those articles you have are a bit conclusive such as the body would processes fat after carbs depletion and the second article is kinda wrong if not blatantly inaccurate saying the facts from the editors opinion than actual research, regions like India where rice is the predominant staple have huge percentages of diabetics from the grain itself and their mostly vegitarian diet, itself especially since most of the people there are already vegitarians.from religious beliefs

WaffleSingSong

January 7th, 2013, 03:05 AM

I've tasted meat. I will refuse to live only on the fruit and vegetables, even if I'm not made to eat meat. The early man hunters seem to have done just fine.

I'm for animal rights as well, not PETA style, but am against abuse and harsh control.

Edit: I left out the word against :L

I agree with this. We have hunted and killed animals for centuries and animals have proven to be just fine. And people not only hunt just for fun or food. Some people do it to help moderate the population as well. You know why people hunt raccoons? Because, if they over populate a disease spreads like wildfire and they almost go extinct. When a raccoon hunter kills one, they save a thousand in the process.

Also, it makes life harder when your vegan. Because when you are vegan it is very hard to get all the complete and incomplete protein you need in your diet to get your amino acids. You will have to eat certain things in order to fill them and that starts to limit your eating freedom, even if you do cut out a food group.

Now, I am in no way a speciest. Animals do deserve a lot of rights just like we do and also deserve much of the same respect as we do too. However, we are omnivores. We got to get our fill of both meat and plants. The only difference between us and them is that we got a big, wrinkly brain compared to them.

Horizon

January 7th, 2013, 03:52 AM

I personally feel that being a Vegan or Vegetarian is okay. If someone doesn't want to eat meat because it goes against their views, that's cool. But I don't think they should be getting in the way of what others eat. We eat meat because it is a great source of protein. And I believe killing animals for food is quite okay too, because it's called Natural Selection. It does not matter how our jaws are built, that shouldn't define what we eat. I'll repeat what I said earlier, Natural Selection. If we are able to take down the animal, then we should have the right to eat it. And besides, animals kill each other for food, but no one is trying to stop that (yet another example of that wonderful Natural Selection ;) ). And believe me, I am all for those animal rights. They deserve proper treatment. But please, do not get in the way of my bacon. :p But at the end of the day, we eat animals because of Natural Selection. It does not matter that we can't exactly eat it raw, or that we have to cook it most of the time. We advanced so much in life, so much to cook our meat so we don't get sick. With that being said, people really need to stop trying to force our eating habits on us (not saying anyone in this thread was). And when it comes to eating animal products, I am not an expert on this, but I do think they don't harm the cows when they milk them (I would hope). And when it comes to chickens, you are not eating baby chickens when you eat eggs. If they are not fertilized, they are not going to become a chicken. And they don't sell fertilized eggs in stores such as wal-mart (like I said, I am no expert on this, but it makes sense right?) I am not trying to change your mind, just explaining to you what the facts are.

Gigablue

January 7th, 2013, 04:46 PM

I figured someone would quote me on that after I said it. Believe it or not, I generally feel healthier as a vegan. I'm not saying everybody is the same, but this is what works for me and feels right so.... And there are many health benefits. I'm going to quote and source a few before someone comes along and asks for the facts, so here they are:

You can find this and more here. (http://www.nursingdegree.net/blog/19/57-health-benefits-of-going-vegan/)

Even more here! (http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/149636.php?sv=d)

Many of the benefits mentioned here are real, especially the reduced risk of cancer and heart disease. But others are either irrelevant, i.e. solving a non-problem, or misleading.

Many of the claims that it makes people feel better, or relieves some subjective symptom are attributable simply to placebo.

The first site claims that a vegan diet can, for example, prevent mad cow disease. While this is true, mad cow is so ridiculously rare that it is irrelevant.

Another claim is that it makes it easier to eat raw or organic food. While also true, it is misleading, as there is no evidence that these are better.

I'm sure someone will come along and give me articles about why veganism is bad, but it won't change my mind or my diet. But like I also said, I don't have a problem with people eating meat. That's their choice and this is mine. I just know what works for me, and this does. It isn't harder to get a balanced diet. It's easier if you find fresh produce and cheaper. And if you get a balanced vegan diet, there should be no need for supplements.

There are benefits from not eating meat in excess, but not from completely eliminating it. Some nutrients, namely iron and vitamin B12, are very hard to get in any significant quantity from plants. Vegans thus usually have deficiencies in these. Also, many essential amino acids are only easily found in meat.

Zaposchk

January 7th, 2013, 05:07 PM

Personally I don't get veganism. I respect it like any other way of life but at the end of the day, animals eat each other and it so happens that we eat animals too. I mean we don't see whales campaigning for plankton rights even though they eat them in the millions because that would be ridiculous. I mean just imagine that.

Sph2015

January 7th, 2013, 11:36 PM

Alright, I'd just like to add a few things to the mix.

Along with PETA, The United States Humane Society (I have no problem with their work with puppies, this is purely livestock related) has also gotten out of hand. I believe one of their jump to slogans is along the lines of "Don't let them fool you, this is how it is". Well, hi. I'm one of "them", and I can assure you that's not how it is. I've had gruesome videos shoved in my face, in an attempt to educate me. I need no education, I live where the action is. I can assure you, the evils of agriculture are not what you think. Let's focus on those horrible, but thankfully rare, instances of mistreatment and abuse, instead of the everyday innocent.

Secondly, I hate to tell you that terms like "grass fed" and "free range" and even "organic" are, frankly, a whole lot of BS. While I don't have the room to explain, I'll tell you that they are simply marketing creations. That being said, don't be afraid to spend a little extra money on some of your food, the cheap stuff is cheap for a reason.

Also, with the issue of it being more challenging to raise livestock than plants. While his may be true at first glance, you get more "bang for your buck" with our mooing friends. It is much more efficient to raise animals than it would be to raise the grains, fruits, and veggies needed to create a balanced vegan or vegetarian diet for the world.

Lastly, please remember that without modern agriculture we'd all be naked and hungry. These farmers have to produce more than ever with less land then ever, give them a break. Or stop making babies, that'd be good too.

And gigablue, you took so so many words out of my mouth, so that certainly helped shorten my little rant.

xXJust Jump ItXx

January 7th, 2013, 11:52 PM

Sph2015

January 8th, 2013, 12:04 AM

Imma vegetarian!!

Anyways... I think people are designed if you wanna call it to be herbivorous. If we eat strictly veggies... And we do get a good amount of protein still, heck it cant hurt us and will help many people. Truthfully, since becoming a vegetarian, Ive felt so much better physically.

I seriously hope I don't come off as a jerk, but what do you mean by "help many people"? And sadly, for every study that preaches the benefits of vegetarianism, there's one that outlines the long-term health issues associated with it. I honestly could care less about what people eat, but I've recently read a lot of new information on how being vegetarian can hurt you in the long run. Just some food for thought. Pun intended.

Mob Boss

January 8th, 2013, 12:14 AM

I seriously hope I don't come off as a jerk, but what do you mean by "help many people"? And sadly, for every study that preaches the benefits of vegetarianism, there's one that outlines the long-term health issues associated with it. I honestly could care less about what people eat, but I've recently read a lot of new information on how being vegetarian can hurt you in the long run. Just some food for thought. Pun intended.

I'm sure there are plenty that outline the long -term health issues involved in the consumption of meat as well.

Aajj333

January 8th, 2013, 12:15 AM

I know I'm gonna get a lot of unnecessary crap for this but I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with humans consuming other animals. It's not animal cruelty for us to eat meat, unless the animal was purposely tortured;which doesn't happen often. Many people are saying that humans are animals too and shouldn't eat them because we wouldn't like it if they eat us, when animals eat other animals to survive. Rabbits don't protest it when foxes eat them, and stop eating living things to show they don't like to be eaten. There are few, if not any, Olympic athletes who are vegitarians, and I would love for someone to name off someone who is. I don't have anything against being a vegetarian but I think it's unnecarry .

http://www.mnn.com/food/healthy-eating/stories/side-effects-of-becoming-vegetarian
http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/11183/1/Disadvantages-of-Being-a-Vegetarian.html
http://healthpsych.psy.vanderbilt.edu/2008/VeganDiets.htm
http://www.essortment.com/cons-vegetarian-diet-40636.html

Mob Boss

January 8th, 2013, 12:21 AM

I know I'm gonna get a lot of unnecessary crap for this but I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with humans consuming other animals. It's not animal cruelty for us to eat meat, unless the animal was purposely tortured;which doesn't happen often. Many people are saying that humans are animals too and shouldn't eat them because we wouldn't like it if they eat us, when animals eat other animals to survive. Rabbits don't protest it when foxes eat them, and stop eating living things to show they don't like to be eaten. There are few, if not any, Olympic athletes who are vegitarians, and I would love for someone to name off someone who is. I don't have anything against being a vegetarian but I think it's unnecarry .

While I do agree that there is nothing wrong with humans eating meat, not every vegetarian does it against animal rights; some do it for health reasons.

I don't have anything against being a vegetarian but I think it's unnecarry .
And based on that logic, eating meat is unnecessary, as humans can live soley on plant-based diets.

Sph2015

January 8th, 2013, 12:25 AM

I'm sure there are plenty that outline the long -term health issues involved in the consumption of meat as well.

Well, quite frankly, If your diet is correct to your body and lifestyle, there aren't really any long term damaging effects. Now, if your favorite meal is deep fried... well... anything, you'll come across some health issues.

The point is, there are no health problems directly linked to the consumption of meat. They all point to the way the food is prepared. Vegetarianism and veganism both have health issues tied to them, even if the person is technically getting all they need. I recently finished a huge research project on all of this, and I went into the process thinking being vegetarian probably was healthier. The scientific and medical information I read stated otherwise.

And based on that logic, eating meat is unnecessary, as humans can live soley on plant-based diets.

But according to multiple extremely credible sources, it is not a healthier lifestyle.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

Aajj333

January 8th, 2013, 12:34 AM

While I do agree that there is nothing wrong with humans eating meat, not every vegetarian does it against animal rights, some do it for health reasons.

And based on that logic, eating meat is unnecessary, as humans can live soley on plant-based diets.

While that may work in the short run in the long run we would be low on protein, vitim b-12, zinc, low chlorestoral, have an increase risk of colon cancer, low bone mineral density, low levels of omega 3 fatty acids, you would have to take a ton of vitimens (which suck so why not eat the food with the nutrients)

Mob Boss

January 8th, 2013, 12:53 AM

But according to multiple extremely credible sources, it is not a healthier lifestyle.
Are those sources overlooking the abundant amount of saturated fats found in meat -- the same fats that can and do lead to cardiovascular issues? Or weight gain often associated with the consumption of meat on a regular basis. What about the carcinogenic (cancer-causing juicy stuff) compounds that ooze into the meat when it's cooked? Let's not take into consideration that meat carries it's own bacteria and diseases. Or that some animal proteins are so closely related to ours, that when it's consumed, our body attacks some of them while also attacking some of ours. Meat isn't natural for us to eat, because many of the animals we eat are so similar in make up to humans.
While that may work in the short run in the long run we would be low on protein, vitim b-12, zinc, low chlorestoral, have an increase risk of colon cancer, low bone mineral density, low levels of omega 3 fatty acids, you would have to take a ton of vitimens (which suck so why not eat the food with the nutrients)

Right, well I'd much rather take vitamins than develop heart disease or cancer. And increase risk of colon cancer? I think not. Meat is high in protein and protein takes a very long time to get fully digested, thus it sits in our intestines the longest. This time factor, allows any carcinogenic compounds to do the most damage to the lining of the intestinal walls. Also, you can have too much protein, and the majority of Americans (on a standard American diet, which entails the consumption of meat) have way too much protein. You can easily acquire protein through vegetables, seeds and nuts. And saving innocent animals is a plus. So...

Sorry for being so harsh, but I get sick and tired of people saying veganism is unnatural or unhealthy. I call BS.

Sonic Boom

January 8th, 2013, 03:02 PM

Hmmm...reading 1 (http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8373.pdf) and reading 2 (http://www.drfuhrman.com/library/vegan_athlete.pdf) provide some interesting (and very credible) background on this topic if anyone is keen.

Sph2015

January 8th, 2013, 06:07 PM

Sorry for being so harsh, but I get sick and tired of people saying veganism is unnatural or unhealthy. I call BS.

Well right back at ya, you obviously missed what I was saying. All of the health risks you listed are easily avoided when the meat is properly processed, correctly prepared, and consumed in the correct serving sizes according to your body type and lifestyle. Human's are omnivores, and that is a scientific, as well as medical, fact.

Aajj333

January 9th, 2013, 12:07 AM

Are those sources overlooking the abundant amount of saturated fats found in meat -- the same fats that can and do lead to cardiovascular issues? Or weight gain often associated with the consumption of meat on a regular basis. What about the carcinogenic (cancer-causing juicy stuff) compounds that ooze into the meat when it's cooked? Let's not take into consideration that meat carries it's own bacteria and diseases. Or that some animal proteins are so closely related to ours, that when it's consumed, our body attacks some of them while also attacking some of ours. Meat isn't natural for us to eat, because many of the animals we eat are so similar in make up to humans.

Right, well I'd much rather take vitamins than develop heart disease or cancer. And increase risk of colon cancer? I think not. Meat is high in protein and protein takes a very long time to get fully digested, thus it sits in our intestines the longest. This time factor, allows any carcinogenic compounds to do the most damage to the lining of the intestinal walls. Also, you can have too much protein, and the majority of Americans (on a standard American diet, which entails the consumption of meat) have way too much protein. You can easily acquire protein through vegetables, seeds and nuts. And saving innocent animals is a plus. So...

Sorry for being so harsh, but I get sick and tired of people saying veganism is unnatural or unhealthy. I call BS.

I don't hear about many cases of someone eating meat and dying because it sate in their intestine too long. Olympic athletes rely on protein (among others)to keep in the shape they have to be in to compete in their level of competition. Animals die every day to other animals who eat them. They don't protest being eaten by stop eating them self. You can acquire protein through other vegetables but the amounts in it dwindle to a really low amount. You lose out on natural omega fatty acids and vitamin b-12. You need to find a new hobby if you worry about "the innocent animals." One organism consuming another is part of nature.

Mob Boss

January 9th, 2013, 01:16 AM

I don't hear about many cases of someone eating meat and dying because it sate in their intestine too long. Olympic athletes rely on protein (among others)to keep in the shape they have to be in to compete in their level of competition. Animals die every day to other animals who eat them. They don't protest being eaten by stop eating them self. You can acquire protein through other vegetables but the amounts in it dwindle to a really low amount. You lose out on natural omega fatty acids and vitamin b-12. You need to find a new hobby if you worry about "the innocent animals." One organism consuming another is part of nature.

I need to find a hobby? Caring about animals means you don't have a life or need a hobby? Wow, I had no clue. And you must not have read every single post I've contributed to this thread. Nearly all of them validate my belief that I have nothing wrong with others eating meat nor hunting. What my whole reasoning behind being vegan is health, I said the animals were a plus. Christ, read my posts before you go on a tangent about me worrying about the wellbeing of animals. Again, please do us both a favor and actually read my posts before you respond. I did not once say meat can kill you from being in your intestinal tract too long. I said the carcinogenic compounds, found in meat, release because protein takes so long to digest, ultimately increasing the risk of colon cancer. No, being a vegan or vegetarian does not increase the risk of colon cancer and I have no clue where you even got that from. And once again, my whole stance on this whole subject is I do it for the health reasons...health, not animals. I said one sentence about animals in that post and that's what you cherry-pick out? Who said anything about Olympic athletes? There are vegan and vegetarian athletes that participate in endurance sports, so I'm not sure what you were even trying to prove with that.:confused: Tofu, tempeh, almonds, soybeans, chickpeas, quinoa, sunflower seeds, almond milk are all great sources of protein, along with much, much more. There should be absolutely no reason for those living off of a plant-based diet to have a protein deficiency with an abundance of sources of protein without touching meat. Vegans and vegetarians are more vulnerable to omega 3 & 6 deficiencies, nevertheless you can still avoid that deficiency through leafy, green vegetables, pumpkin seeds, wheat germ and flaxseed/flaxseed oil, amongst many other sources.

pokofish

January 9th, 2013, 01:19 AM

im vege but i eat chicken and fish

FreeFall

January 9th, 2013, 01:47 AM

Rabbits don't protest it when foxes eat them, and stop eating living things to show they don't like to be eaten. There are few, if not any, Olympic athletes who are vegitarians, and I would love for someone to name off someone who is. I don't have anything against being a vegetarian but I think it's unnecarry .

Meat-less Olympic athletes:
Lizzie Armitstead
Paavo Nurmi
Emil Voigt
Edwin Moses
Carl Lewis (used to eat meat, turned vegan though later during his career)
Bode Miller
Martina Navratilova
Murray Rose
Dylan Wykes
Charlene Wong (not as strict about not eating meat now, as she used to be but once was 100% meat-free)
Surya Bonaly
Hannah Teter
Debbi Lawrence and a few more but the list I think is enough right now.

Rabbits do protest to being eaten though, most beings protest to being eaten save for some poisons frogs/other toxic animals that know they'll survive. I saw a hawk swoop down on a bunny in our yard, that rabbit let out the most heart wrenching screech I've ever heard a rabbit make, I ran out and scared the hawk away to save it.
I do not mind the life-style, as I know it's not for me. Now if the world decided to end all meat eating and shoved lentils at me in its place, I'd probably raise some hell.

Aajj333

January 11th, 2013, 12:18 AM

Meat-less Olympic athletes:
Lizzie Armitstead
Paavo Nurmi
Emil Voigt
Edwin Moses
Carl Lewis (used to eat meat, turned vegan though later during his career)
Bode Miller
Martina Navratilova
Murray Rose
Dylan Wykes
Charlene Wong (not as strict about not eating meat now, as she used to be but once was 100% meat-free)
Surya Bonaly
Hannah Teter
Debbi Lawrence and a few more but the list I think is enough right now.

Rabbits do protest to being eaten though, most beings protest to being eaten save for some poisons frogs/other toxic animals that know they'll survive. I saw a hawk swoop down on a bunny in our yard, that rabbit let out the most heart wrenching screech I've ever heard a rabbit make, I ran out and scared the hawk away to save it.
I do not mind the life-style, as I know it's not for me. Now if the world decided to end all meat eating and shoved lentils at me in its place, I'd probably raise some hell.

Thanks for the athletes

Aajj333

January 11th, 2013, 12:21 AM

I need to find a hobby? Caring about animals means you don't have a life or need a hobby? Wow, I had no clue. And you must not have read every single post I've contributed to this thread. Nearly all of them validate my belief that I have nothing wrong with others eating meat nor hunting. What my whole reasoning behind being vegan is health, I said the animals were a plus. Christ, read my posts before you go on a tangent about me worrying about the wellbeing of animals. Again, please do us both a favor and actually read my posts before you respond. I did not once say meat can kill you from being in your intestinal tract too long. I said the carcinogenic compounds, found in meat, release because protein takes so long to digest, ultimately increasing the risk of colon cancer. No, being a vegan or vegetarian does not increase the risk of colon cancer and I have no clue where you even got that from. And once again, my whole stance on this whole subject is I do it for the health reasons...health, not animals. I said one sentence about animals in that post and that's what you cherry-pick out? Who said anything about Olympic athletes? There are vegan and vegetarian athletes that participate in endurance sports, so I'm not sure what you were even trying to prove with that.:confused: Tofu, tempeh, almonds, soybeans, chickpeas, quinoa, sunflower seeds, almond milk are all great sources of protein, along with much, much more. There should be absolutely no reason for those living off of a plant-based diet to have a protein deficiency with an abundance of sources of protein without touching meat. Vegans and vegetarians are more vulnerable to omega 3 & 6 deficiencies, nevertheless you can still avoid that deficiency through leafy, green vegetables, pumpkin seeds, wheat germ and flaxseed/flaxseed oil, amongst many other sources.

Not caring about animals, woring about those "innocent animals" that get eaten. There is absolutely no point in worrinf about that because it is part of nature. Do you worry about all those innocent germs that get killed when you wash your hands?

Mob Boss

January 11th, 2013, 01:32 AM

Dude, who said I worried about innocent animals? I said it was a plus, meaning I'm vegan for health reasons and if even one animal is saved because I don't eat meat, that's cool too. I don't do PETA, I don't spend time worrying about animals, and I certainly don't care if others eat meat; which I've said time and time again, yet you can't comprehend that for some reason . Again, not worried about them. I know what's a part of nature and what isn't. And you can't compare germs to animals. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Germs are generally single-celled organisms, whereas animals are complex organisms with a heartbeat. Humans are animals. Do you think comparing a germ to yourself is adequate? No? That's what I thought. I'm finished going back and forth with you because you repeat the same things, which in turn requires me to explain the same things over and over again because you aren't actually reading my posts or you're not fully understanding what I'm saying.

Aajj333

January 12th, 2013, 02:47 AM

[QUOTE=Illicitus;2093874]Dude, who said I worried about innocent animals? I said it was a plus, meaning I'm vegan for health reasons and if even one animal is saved because I don't eat meat, that's cool too. I don't do PETA, I don't spend time worrying about animals, and I certainly don't care if others eat meat; which I've said time and time again, yet you can't comprehend that for some reason . Again, not worried about them. I know what's a part of nature and what isn't. And you can't compare germs to animals. That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Germs are generally single-celled organisms, whereas animals are complex organisms with a heartbeat. Humans are animals. Do you think comparing a germ to yourself is adequate? No? That's what I thought. I'm finished going back and forth with you because you repeat the same things, which in turn requires me to explain the same things over and over again because you aren't actually reading my posts or you're not fully understanding what I'm saying.[/]

You did. I never said you did PETA, care if others eat meat (nor do I).
Yet germs and animals are one in the same. Do you care about all the innocent bugs that get squashed when you drive? I don't give a fuck if you don't eat, but I gave reasons because you challenged me to give them.