Another paedophile discovered as Pope preaches anti-gay hate.

[TigerBoy]

At the same time as the Pope and other church leaders use their Christmas message to spread hate about gays (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=161808), it is up to secular authorities to root out yet another one of their number involved in paedophilia.


Some parishioners at a Montreal Catholic church were shocked to learn Sunday that a deacon is being charged with producing and distributing child pornography.

William Kokesch, 65, was arrested Friday morning and charged on Saturday via video link at the Montreal courthouse.

Police said they found more than 2,000 images of children on a computer. His bail hearing will be held Monday at the Montreal courthouse.

Kokesch, who lives in Pointe-Claire, was a deacon for the St-Edmund of Canterbury parish in Beaconsfield on Montreal's West Island.

Carmella Guerriero told CBC News she was mortified by the news.

"I'm here this morning without my kids," Guerriero said on her way into the church.

"I just want to see if they have anything to say about what's happened. It's horrible," she said, adding that she is no longer comfortable having her children attend the church.
Montreal CBC News (http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2012/12/23/montreal-child-pornography-arrest.html)


While we continually learn of paedophiles sheltered by the Catholic Church, the Church has no credibility to comment on matters of sex and sexuality.

Matthew 7:5 "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."

[Noirtier]

It's a sad thing when this doesn't even surprise you anymore, you hear it so much. It's almost to the point that it's something you automatically think of when you think of "Catholicism." Which is really quite sad in all honesty.

[FreeFall]

It's a sad thing when this doesn't even surprise you anymore, you hear it so much. It's almost to the point that it's something you automatically think of when you think of "Catholicism." Which is really quite sad in all honesty.

I was just thinking "oh another catholic pedo". I hate feeling that I am becoming desensitized but at the same time I feel so, defeated. I feel like there's no hope in protecting children from these Catholics, the bad ones like these not every single catholic. Like the only way would be to kick them all out and start over. It just feels like a cycle with no end ):

[Drew5]

The lesson is: Our God is vengeful! O spiteful one, show me who to smite and they shall be smoten! --Homer Simpson

[dingo006]

Ok, couple of things ...

1) Catholic priests abuse at a rate far lower than that of other males in the general population.

2) No one talks about the fact that actual conviction rate for Catholic priests of current crimes is actually very low and for the most part there are very few allegations are deemed "credible" each year by law enforcement.

3) the Pope said that pursuit of gay marriage helps destabilize the view of traditional marriage but has often said "It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs." But this does not change the view of the church believing marriage is a religious act and not a secular act.

If you ask me, the problem exists with the Church and the lack of definition between religious marriage and civil marriage.


4) The incidence of sexual abuse by teachers in public schools today is significantly higher than the rate of sexual abuse within Catholic organizations.

and finally

5) No one talks about the priests that were falsely accused. Check out Father Oliver Brennan, the former parish priest in Dundalk County Louth who was falsely accused of child abuse and the church did not support him. Why dont we hear more about that.

Surly this deacon who has been accused is probably guilty of possession but honestly, what evidence do you have of the church sheltered him? Are you talking about the fact that the priest probably confessed it? I mean if your problem is the sanctity of the confessional then you should take up your problem not with the church but with Canadian law. religious communication is privileged and cannot be disclosed to law enforcement under Canadian law.

[TigerBoy]

1) Catholic priests abuse at a rate far lower than that of other males in the general population.
Priests are supposed to be celibate and have zero sex, not less sex, nor does sex with a child somehow 'not count'. Even if this claim was based in reality, any abuse is still wrong, so what is the point in repeating this claim in this context?
I don't believe your claim. This point sounds like a quote from the widely criticised Church-sponsored ten year out of date John Jay College report which relied on surveys compiled by the Church itself, but you haven't stated your source or proof.
it is well known that abuse is under-reported where widely respected authority figures are involved
following that point, reporting rates growing year on year as the cracks in the wall of silence are widened, some cite a doubling (http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/07/28/allegations-of-clerical-abuse-double-in-a-year)in a year making it hard to baseline any statistical claims on an ever-increasing number.
I propose that any report currently would under state the issue given the already-proven cover ups- the Church won't admit abuse even when caught red handed.


This claim is also directly contradicted by the expert testimony at this State Inquiry (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/one-in-20-priests-an-abuser-inquiry-told-20121022-2816q.html) in Australia, which states the opposite:
"But the actual figure was much higher when under-reporting was taken into account, along with cases dealt with in secret by the Catholic Church. "One in 20 is a minimum. It might be one in 15, perhaps not as high as one in 10," he said.

He suggested that, though the Church tried to "fudge the figures" by including other church workers, Catholic priests offended at a much higher rate than other men. If the general male population now over 65 offended at the same rate, there would be 65,614 men living in Australia who had been convicted of child sex abuse — very far from the case."
It was also stated that Catholic priests abuse six times more than the rest of the churches (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/world/europe/25vatican.html?_r=0).


2) No one talks about the fact that actual conviction rate for Catholic priests of current crimes is actually very low and for the most part there are very few allegations are deemed "credible" each year by law enforcement.
How do any amount of as-yet unconvicted paedophiles excuse the ones who have been caught and convicted?

This claim is also easily explained - if true - by the proven Church interference, cover ups and mendacity (eg http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/world/europe/25vatican.html?_r=0). Even more blatant are the Pope's instructions in "De Delictis Gravioribus," to not tell anyone of abuse but report it to the vatican as abuse of this type was "a pontifical secret". He notably does not make an exception for telling civil authorities.

Define "low conviction rates". Just a quick google got me this article (http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/world/catholic%2Babuse%2Bin%2Bengland%2Band%2Bwales%2Brevealed/3767082.html) documents 157 years worth of Jail time for 37 convicted priests. We've seen a great many more convictions since those figures were compiled.

As this article also states, the full scale of abuse is still emerging (report rate for current and historical offences growing) and requires full transparency of the church or courage of victims in the face of Church pressure and manipulation.

Do you have any source to substantiate your own claim?

3) [the Church] has often said "It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church's pastors wherever it occurs."
Empty words when at the same time they continue to fuel that same bigotry.


"But this does not change the view of the church believing marriage is a religious act and not a secular act. "
Which view is irrelevant since the Catholic Church - or any religion - does not exclusively 'own' the concept of a solemnised commitment ceremony nor the state of marriage.

4) The incidence of sexual abuse by teachers in public schools today is significantly higher than the rate of sexual abuse within Catholic organizations.
proof?
See comments against point 1.

5) No one talks about the priests that were falsely accused. Check out Father Oliver Brennan, the former parish priest in Dundalk County Louth who was falsely accused of child abuse and the church did not support him. Why dont we hear more about that.
Because one is rare and the other all too common. Because any such injustice would pale in comparison to the massive injustice of the sexual abuse of just one innocent child, and exposure to additional victimisation by a Church attempting to shield its own. Careers can be rebuilt and adults are better equipped to understand their situation, whereas a child can never be 'un-raped' nor do victims' memories of the pain, humiliation and fear abate over the years. Any honourable person would sacrifice their career in an instant if they could prevent the sexual abuse of a single child: the two things are not comparable.

[Mortal Coil]

*ignores the debate going on in other posts*

This is sad, but also I've just stopped being so surprised or angered by it. The hypocrisy, I mean. Not the abuse. The abuse makes me seethe, but the hypocrisy? It's become almost expected.

[Jess]

Sick. But it's not really a surprise anymore >:/

[Lyra Heartstrings]

*ignores the debate going on in other posts*

Jesus..if you're getting off to children, you have some serious issues.

[Mortal Coil]

Jesus..if you're getting off to children, you have some serious issues.

Oh, God(s) no! I was just saying that I preferred to make my personal reply a reply to the OP rather than the back-and-forth in the previous replies, as I have a stronger reaction to the fact that this happened, than teenagers' back-and-forths on the internet pertaining to this very subject.

[Lyra Heartstrings]

Oh, God(s) no! I was just saying that I preferred to make my personal reply a reply to the OP rather than the back-and-forth in the previous replies, as I have a stronger reaction to the fact that this happened, than teenagers' back-and-forths on the internet pertaining to this very subject.

..I was quoting that like I was saying it, instead of me typing it. I was just making a bad joke.
HOLY MISCOMMUNICATION BATMAN.

[Mortal Coil]

..I was quoting that like I was saying it, instead of me typing it. I was just making a bad joke.
HOLY MISCOMMUNICATION BATMAN.

Blakey, you know sarcasm doesn't work in text :P Especially not with social outcasts like me...

[Lyra Heartstrings]

Blakey, you know sarcasm doesn't work in text :P Especially not with social outcasts like me...

Aren't we all social outcasts~? I miss sarcasm all the time.