interested in Wicca?

[asking_alexandriaFTW]

Wicca is a very interesting religion and if anyone has questions about my fellow Wiccans and their culture, if you want to start practicing Wicca or just curious about our ways, you can ask me anything and i will advise you in my point of view or i can refer you to other people i am confident in.

Just remember that not every Witch has the exact same culture and practices, what i say is purely how i feel about my religion. There is no true way to be Wiccan and no information you will find will be correct or incorrect.
Questioning is the door of knowledge.
Blessed Be.

[ackmedsgirl666]

i once has a friend who was wiccan

thanks for the neg rep.. pretty stupid reason for it especially the comment
and nothing.. i dont take part in it... im sort of against witchcraft since i am religious myself
as i was taught growing up witchcraft is devils work

[asking_alexandriaFTW]

i once has a friend who was wiccan

thanks for the neg rep.. pretty stupid reason for it especially the comment
and nothing.. i dont take part in it... im sort of against witchcraft since i am religious myself
as i was taught growing up witchcraft is devils work


Wiccans do not worship the devil.
The devil is, in fact, a Christian belief.
Many years ago Christians/Catholics feared Wiccans because of their so told powers, so they made up that wiccans were Devil worshipers.
Wiccans do not believe in the devil at all. A well known thing us Witches say is 'Giving evil a name brings evil power'

[Browny]

So since you posted this I am really curious about the Wiccan practices and its history. Where did this start and what are the practices of It?

[Skyline]

What exactly do Wiccans believe in? Do they believe in a god or some other type of being?

[Cicero]

i once has a friend who was wiccan

thanks for the neg rep.. pretty stupid reason for it especially the comment
and nothing.. i dont take part in it... im sort of against witchcraft since i am religious myself
as i was taught growing up witchcraft is devils work

It's pretty funny you say that when your name has 666 in it which is well known for "The beast" meaning satan. So what your saying is rather hypocritical, your saying wiccans are satan worshipers when you have 666 in your name tag...

And actually wiccans are pretty peaceful people, correct me if I'm wrong, but they believe that energy is all around and most wiccans use that energy for things like healing and health and well being.

[ackmedsgirl666]

Actually 666 in my nam isn't for the devil
It may be the number of the bEast but I'm no devil worshipper
I believe in god ok. 666 if you must know Is my sisters birthday
And I includes that in my name cause I am close to her
So don't jump to conclusions when u don't know the facts

[Skyline]

Actually 666 in my nam isn't for the devil
It may be the number of the bEast but I'm no devil worshipper
I believe in god ok. 666 if you must know Is my sisters birthday
And I includes that in my name cause I am close to her
So don't jump to conclusions when u don't know the facts

Just a side note, just because someone believes in God doesn't mean they don't worship the devil. If you believe in Satan then you have to believe in God, if you believe in God then you have to believe in Satan. Otherwise, correct me if I am wrong, the the whole concept of religion is flawed.

[Cicero]

Actually 666 in my nam isn't for the devil
It may be the number of the bEast but I'm no devil worshipper
I believe in god ok. 666 if you must know Is my sisters birthday
And I includes that in my name cause I am close to her
So don't jump to conclusions when u don't know the facts

I can promis you, 99% of people won't think "Oh hey, that's a family members birthday" if it has 666 in their name. And just so you know. Satan believes in God too, so it's nothing special when you say you believe in God. You didn't even make it look like a date, you just said 666, not 06/06/96 (or whenever she was born).

[Horizon]

I've always seen the wiccan religion, to be more tangible to me. It makes more sense to me then most religions, to be honest. But I don't understand it 100%. I just really want to know, is there like, the idea of a Divine Being? Or is it like the Romans and the Greeks, having multiple Divine Beings? I mean, I could look it up myself, but it just seems more fit to ask someone who practices the religion :)

[Magus]

I am interested in Middle-Eastern Paganism.

[Human]

I respect your religion more than others... Even though I still don't see the whole energy bit as truthful or correct.

[xXJust Jump ItXx]

I dont know much bout being a Wiccan, but if you look it up you can find stuff...

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wiccan+religion+

[UnknownError]

Isn't Wicca for like 12 year old scene girls who think they're hardcore?

[Zenos]

Just a side note, just because someone believes in God doesn't mean they don't worship the devil. If you believe in Satan then you have to believe in God, if you believe in God then you have to believe in Satan. Otherwise, correct me if I am wrong, the the whole concept of religion is flawed.



The whole "If you believe in Satan then you have to believe in God, if you believe in God then you have to believe in Satan. " arguement is flawed simply because if you believe in Satan you don't have to believe in Jehovah,because you could believe Satan is you're God. And you don't have to believe in Satan to believe in God.



When one says for exapmle to a Satanist:"If you believe in Satan then you have to believe in God, if you believe in God then you have to believe in Satan",then they are dictating what that Satanist "HAS" to believe to fit the first persons view on what the beliefs of Satanism are,regardless of what the Satanist actually does believe.

[Zenos]

I can promis you, 99% of people won't think "Oh hey, that's a family members birthday" if it has 666 in their name. And just so you know. Satan believes in God too, so it's nothing special when you say you believe in God. You didn't even make it look like a date, you just said 666, not 06/06/96 (or whenever she was born).


How can you even begin to know what an entity you can't even see believes in? Satan believes in God too,what a spurious claim.

[Zenos]

Wiccans do not worship the devil.
The devil is, in fact, a Christian belief.
Many years ago Christians/Catholics feared Wiccans because of their so told powers, so they made up that wiccans were Devil worshipers.
Wiccans do not believe in the devil at all. A well known thing us Witches say is 'Giving evil a name brings evil power'


Let me address these:

1)The devil is, in fact, a Christian belief

Satan is a name derived from the jewish word Ha-Satan.The meaning of the word is The adversary.The jews saw Ha-satan as being an office like an attourney that could be apponited to any angel(or if an angel asked for the position be granted it) to test jehovahs followers or even the nation of Isreal as a whole,Also Ha-satan could be Jehovah himself testing ot punishing people,or it could be anyone set by Jehovah to test or punish an individual follower of his are the nation of isreal as a whole.
In short whether you use Satan or even Ha-satan they are not proper names but instead or titles to describe a Function just as Christ and Buddha or titles and not proper names.

Plus satan is not a purely Jewish or Christian idea they just gave it the most popular names:
The Persians had Ahriman,the Egyptians had Apep,etc etc I could go on and on.


2)Many years ago Christians/Catholics feared Wiccans because of their so told powers, so they made up that wiccans were Devil worshipers.


Ahhh yes the burning times of the so-called Dark Ages.


I'm sorry to say Wicca does not go that far back.Wicca was founded in the 1950's and is the invention of Gerald B.Gardner.In fact most of the beliefs and practices of Wicca have nothing to do with European Paganism at all.
By the time of the so-called Burning times Paganism as an organized religion of any kind was dead in Europe,there was surviving practices but by then these surviving practices in most parts ofd Europe had been christianized.

There where no Wiccans in Europe at the time of the witch burnings simplky because there was no Wiccan religion.



3)Wiccans do not believe in the devil at all. A well known thing us Witches say is 'Giving evil a name brings evil power'.

On this I do agree Wiccans do not believe in the devil,but part of the reason Wiccans are misconstrued by the lesser-minded as being devil worshippers is the simple fact that they use terms,etc etc that are clearly derived from dark age Witch trial testamonies and dark age church lore about witches!


This will expalin what I mean:

http://theisticsatanism.com/pagan/HistoryWicca.html

Note: The following article should NOT be taken as implying that Wicca is a form of Satanism. Although this article focusses on similarities and historical connections between Wicca and 19th century literary Satanism, there are plenty of differences too, and even more differences between Wicca and modern (post-LaVey) Satanism. Wicca is an eclectic modern religion which has drawn inspiration from many sources, both ancient and modern. Literary Satanism is just one of those many sources.

Satanism and the History of Wicca
by Diane Vera

Copyright © 1992, 1994, 1996 by Diane Vera. All rights reserved.


In their attempts to dissociate themselves from Satanism, Wiccans have tended to distort their own history. Wicca and Satanism are indeed very distinct religious categories. But there are some intimate historical ties between the two, as even some Wiccan scholars are finally starting to admit. See, for example, Aidan Kelly's book Crafting the Art of Magic (pp.21-22, 25-26, and 176).

Wicca is not "the Old Religion", though it does draw inspiration from various old religions. Wicca as we now know it is derived from 19th-century occult philosophy -- including literary Satanic philosophy, among others -- projected onto a non-Christian Goddess and God, plus some de-Christianized Golden Dawn style ceremonial magick, plus assorted turn-of-the-century British folklore, more recently re-shaped by neo-Pagan scholarship and by modern feminist and ecological concerns. At least several different sides of Wicca's convoluted family tree can be traced to 19th-century literary Satanism, some forms of which had more in common with present-day Wicca than with present-day Satanism.

The prime example of literary Satanism that strongly influenced Wicca, especially feminist Wicca, is the book La Sorciere by the 19th-century French historian Jules Michelet (published in English by Citadel Press under the title Satanism and Witchcraft). Michelet's ideas, as paraphrased by feminist writers such as Barbara Ehrenreich and Deirdre English in their booklet Witches, Midwives, and Nurses: A History of Women Healers (Feminist Press, 1973), have played an important role today's women's health movement. (At least Ehrenreich and English were honest enough to list Michelet in their bibliography.) See especially Michelet's introduction. Michelet was, as far as I know, the literary origin of today's feminist image of the Witch as a healer. Among other things, he theorized that the witchhunts were used by the emerging male medical profession to wipe out their peasant female competition.

According to Jeffrey B. Russell in A History of Witchcraft, pre-feminist classical Wicca also drew lots of inspiration indirectly from Michelet. Michelet was a major source of inspiration to Margaret Murray, Charles G. Leland, and Sir James Frazer, whom most knowledgeable Wiccans do recognize as influential. (Russell points this out, yet neglects to inform the reader that Michelet's book is full of passionate, sympathetic depictions of Satan as well as of the medieval witches. Russell too perpetuates the false counter-myth that Wicca Has Nothing To Do With Satanism.)

I'll leave it to folks more scholarly than myself to debate just how indebted Murray and Leland were to Michelet. In any case, the Italian witch mythology Leland presented in Aradia: Gospel of the Witches (originally published 1899), one of Wicca's major sources, contains some diabolical-witchcraft elements of its own. The very first paragraph reads:

Diana greatly loved her brother Lucifer, the god of the Sun and of the Moon, the god of Light, who was so proud of his beauty, and who for his pride was driven from Paradise.

Wiccans usually argue that "Lucifer" is not the Christian Devil but is just "the god of the Sun and of the Moon". (I too distinguish between Satan and Lucifer, as do many occultists.) Yet the statement that Lucifer was "driven from Paradise" for his "pride" is clearly a reference to Christianity's Devil myth. Aradia contains a mix of mythologies.

Wiccans are correct to say that their Horned God is not Satan. But it isn't historically true that the Christian image of Satan is a re-interpretation of the Wiccan God. On the contrary, the modern Wiccan concept of the Horned God has its literary origin in a Paganized re-interpretation of medieval Christian Devil imagery (as in Margaret Murray's and earlier writings). It's true that medieval Christian Devil imagery, in turn, incorporates distorted versions of many ancient Gods (not all of whom were Horned, e.g. the trident comes from Poseidon/Neptune). But the Wiccan image of its Horned God is not a direct continuation of any ancient religion, and at least one key aspect does come from no source other than the medieval Christian Devil concept as manifest in the witchhunts. The idea of a Horned God associated specifically with witchcraft is derived from the Christian witchhunts, and from no previous source. In pre-Christian European religion, there were Goddesses associated with witchcraft, e.g. Hecate; but Pan and other horned male Gods were not associated with witchcraft, as far as I know. Much of Wicca's self-image is based on the Paganized re-interpretation of alleged Devil-worship, rather than on actual ancient religion. Much of Wicca's terminology and imagery, e.g. the words "witch", "coven", and "sabbat", are used because of the Wiccan myth that Wicca is the survival of an underground medieval religion that was the target of the witchhunts. (Regardless of the linguistic origin of the words themselves, this constellation of terms comes from the witchhunts.) The related idea that modern Wiccans too are in continual danger of being confused with Satanists is at least partly a self-fulfilling prophecy. Far fewer people would confuse modern Wicca with Satanism if Wicca didn't use so many witchhunt-derived words and other trappings popularly associated with diabolical witchcraft.

My point here is not that Wiccans shouldn't use the words "witch", "coven", and "sabbat". My point is that if they do use these and other diabolical-witchcraft trappings, they should accept responsibility for the consequences. For example, when explaining that Wicca Is Not Satanism, they should acknowledge the main real reason for the confusion: that modern Wiccans have chosen to identify with the victims of European witchhunts and have chosen their terminology accordingly. Wiccans certainly should not blame Satanists for Wicca's own public-relations difficulties, as some Wiccans do. It also bothers me when Wiccans, in an attempt to distance themselves from Satanism, perpetuate popular misconceptions about Satanism, e.g. saying "We're not Satanists!" in a tone which implies you think Satanists are monsters, or saying "We're not Satanists!" in the same breath as saying "We don't sacrifice babies." (The latter point can be made separately and is an obvious corollary of the Wiccan Rede and/or the Threefold Law.)

Back to Wicca's history. Besides Murray, Leland, and other writers on witchcraft, another of Wicca's main sources is Aleister Crowley. Many knowledgeable Wiccans (e.g. the Farrars and Doreen Valiente) do realize that Gardner's rituals were heavily based on Crowley's rituals, though they tend to overstate the "Crowley was not a Satanist" disclaimer.

Crowley was not a Satanist per se, but he definitely was into Satanic symbolism, in addition to the zillion other things he was into. In some defensive neo-Pagan writings (e.g. the Church of All Worlds booklet "Witchcraft, Satanism, and Occult Crime: Who's Who and What's What"), it is claimed that Crowley was neither a Satanist nor a Pagan but was just into Judaeo-Christian ceremonial magick. In fact, Crowley was very eclectic. Even Golden Dawn ceremonial magick included not only Qabalah and the medieval Christian grimoires, but also Egyptian deities, Greek deities, and Yoga. Crowley emphasized the Egyptian elements, downplayed the Christian elements, and added plenty of other things to the mix, including Satanic imagery galore (such as his invocation of Satan in Liber Samekh, not to mention his constant references to himself as "the Beast 666"). Some will insist that Crowley's Satanic symbolism was merely a joke; but Crowley's attitudes were well within the 19th-century Satanic literary tradition. (In most of the more sophisticated forms of Satanism, the name "Satan" is understood in an ironic sense.) Others will explain that most of Crowley's Satanic symbolism can be re-interpreted in Pagan terms, but this too is true of many forms of Satanism.

There's also a possibility that Wicca borrowed ideas from writings about actual Satanists living in the late-19th or early-20th century. In Crafting the Art of Magic, Aidan Kelly says Gerald Gardner drew key concepts from the description of Ozark folk witchcraft, including folk Satanism, in the 1947 book Ozark Superstition by Vance Randolph. I'll admit that Kelly's conclusions have been challenged by other historically-knowledgeable Wiccans.

Of course, if Gardner was influenced by Randolph's account, Gardner would probably have assumed that the Satanic folk witches were "really" Pagans whom Randolph misrepresented as Satanists. But Gardner's assumption wouldn't necessarily have been correct. An unlettered folk-witch would be far more likely to be either (1) a Satanist or (2) a devout though unorthodox Christian than to have preserved an ancient Pagan religion intact. Various Pagan customs have certainly survived, but this is very different from the intact survival of a Pagan religion, for which there is very little evidence. (For a critique of alleged evidence for Pagan survival, see A Razor for a Goat by Elliot Rose. Regarding a possible medieval witch-cult very different from what Murray hypothesized, see The Night Battles by Carlo Ginzburg. Regarding contemporary hereditary witches, many of whom are Christian, see Bluenose Magic by Helen Creighton. For an example of a decidedly non-Pagan grimoire that is very popular among European folk witches today, see The Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses, available in some botanicas.)

Some forms of Wicca may have been influenced by Satanists more directly than via Murray, Leland, Crowley, Ehrenreich/English, and possibly Randolph. Two possible examples:


Historically-knowledgeable Wiccans have debated what role, if any, was played in the development of modern Wiccan by a 19th-century English farm laborer named George Pickingill who was reputed to be a witch. Aidan Kelly, who does not believe Pickingill contributed anything to Wicca, describes Pickingill as "a garden-variety folk-magic witch and a home-grown Satanist." The assertion that Pickingill did play a major role was originally made by "Lugh" in a newsletter called The Wiccan in 1974. "Lugh", who claimed to be a hereditary witch, described Pickingill as "the world's greatest living authority on Witchcraft, Satanism, and Black Magic" (quoted by Doreen Valiente in Rebirth of Witchcraft).


Starhawk was initiated by Victor Anderson, who once belonged to a coven whose form of witchcraft included a form of "literature-based Satanism" (or at least a religion closely akin to "literature-based Satanism"); or so says Kelly, based on research by Valerie Voigt. [Postscript, November 2002: Kelly's statements are quite likely not accurate. See update.]

Whether or not Kelly is correct about Victor Anderson, and whether or not Pickingill had anything to do with Wicca, it shouldn't be considered unlikely that some traditions of Wicca originated as forms of Satanism and then gradually grew away from Satanism. To this day, there are occultists who start out as Satanists and eventually become Wiccans or other types of neo-Pagans. It would be very odd if such people's understanding of Wicca was not at all influenced by their previous experience with Satanism.

Theistic forms of Satanism have a natural tendency to give birth to new, non-Satanic religions. If you reject Christian theology (as nearly all intelligent Satanists do), but if you nonetheless venerate Satan as a real being or force (not just a symbol as in LaVey Satanism), then the question inevitably arises: Who and what is "Satan"? Different forms of Satanism have different answers to this question. One of the easier answers is to re-interpret Satan as a pre-Christian deity, usually either Set or Pan. However, once you equate Satan with a specific ancient deity, you have taken the first step away from Satanism. You are no longer venerating Satan per se; you are now venerating a Pagan deity with Satanic overtones. And then, once you develop your Paganized belief system further, the Satanic overtones will eventually seem less and less important. Such has apparently been the case with the Temple of Set, an offshoot of LaVey's Church of Satan. (Setians disagree on whether to call themselves "Satanists".) It seems not at all unlikely that some forms of Wicca, with all its diabolical-witchcraft trappings, would have a similar origin. A group of theistic Satanists who equated Satan with Pan, as some Satanists do, would very likely tend to evolve in a Wicca-like direction.

More about Wicca's diabolical-witchcraft trappings. Wicca's self-image is based on the records of witchhunts, re-interpreting the alleged activities of accused diabolical witches as the worship of a Pagan "Horned God". Wicca thus makes a new use of the same source material that Satanists have been using for centuries.

An interesting question is: Why reconstruct an "Old Religion" this way, rather than just going back to the records of actual old religions? Other forms of neo-Paganism, e.g. Asatru and neo-Druidism, which do base themselves more on what's known about actual ancient religions, are far less likely than Wicca to be confused with Satanism by outsiders. Why do Wiccans insist on using words like "witch" and "coven" when they could easily use other, more respectable-sounding words?

Despite Wicca's diabolical-witchcraft trappings, or perhaps partly because of those trappings, Wicca has more popular appeal than any other form of neo-Paganism. Certainly Wicca's hot-button terminology has helped Wicca get lots more publicity than it otherwise could. Wiccan spokespeople sometimes bemoan the fact that newspapers interview them only at Halloween, but most small religious sects don't get nearly so much free publicity at any time of the year, not even on Halloween. And, judging by the way some Wiccans keep repeating "We're Not Satanists!" far more often than they actually get accused of being Satanists, it seems logical to suspect that at least some of them are using words and images popularly associated with Satanism as a way to attract attention, and/or because they themselves enjoy feeling naughty. (I've actually heard some Wiccans say that if the word "witch" ever became too respectable, it would lose some of its power.)

Modern Satanists have long felt that the basis of Wicca's appeal lies in the paradoxical (some would say hypocritical) combination of Wicca's Satanic connotations and the denial of same. Thus, Satanists tend to regard Wicca as a ripoff of Satanism.

I personally don't regard Wicca as a ripoff. In my opinion, Wiccans' use of witchhunt-derived trappings is neither more nor less legitimate than the use of those same trappings by Satanists. And Wicca, as a religion, does have much more substance to it than just its deliberately-adopted superficial resemblances to diabolical witchcraft.

But I'm very irritated by those endless "Wicca Has Nothing To Do With Satanism!" disclaimers. I wouldn't mind if Wiccans merely said that Wicca is not Satanism (at least if they said it without repeating it unnecessarily). It's true that Wicca is not Satanism, but it isn't historically true that Wicca "has nothing to do with" Satanism. Nor is it true that Wicca has nothing in common with Satanism. Some forms of Wicca and neo-Paganism have a lot in common with (some forms of) Satanism.

Oddly enough, of the many Wicca-based forms of neo-Paganism, one of the most "Satanic" (in terms of 19th-century literary Satanism) is feminist Goddess religion, despite its frequent omission of even the "Horned God". See, for example, some of Mary Daly's writings. When it comes to inverting and parodying Christian symbolism, Daly's wordplay does it better than an old-fashioned Black Mass. Daly also reclaims and venerates almost every demonized female category conceivable, from Furies to Hags. And let's not forget the many feminists who venerate Lilith, a Jewish folkloric near-equivalent of the Christian Satan. Lilith never made it to the status of a full-fledged anti-god, but otherwise her myth is almost identical to the Christian Satan myth: banished for her pride, she became a dreaded demon and was even blamed for people's sins, especially sexual ones. To be fair, I should mention that not all feminist Goddess-worshippers are into either Mary Daly's writings or the veneration of Lilith. But the feminist counterculture, because it is a counterculture, tends generally to include an extra dose of demon-reclamation beyond what is found in classical Wicca, e.g. magazine titles like Sinister Wisdom. All these parallels to Satanism reflect the quintessentially Satanic central theme of some forms of feminist Goddess religion: self-liberation from a socially-imposed mainstream "spiritual" order -- even though Goddess religion is in other ways quite "un-Satanic" by the standards of most modern Satanists.

One of the earliest feminist writers on religion had a much friendlier attitude toward Satanism than is common today. As far as I know, the very first feminist writer on witchcraft and Goddess religion was 19th-century womens's suffrage leader Matilda Joslyn Gage. Her book Woman, Church, and State contains an enthusiastic depiction of a medieval peasant Black Mass, based on Michelet's account.

I hope today's Wiccans and feminist Goddess-worshippers will stop fearing to recognize that, just as Christianity borrowed heavily from Greek mystery religion yet is a very different religion from the Greek mysteries, so too Wicca and feminist Goddess religion have drawn lots of inspiration from Satanism, though they are very different religions. Kelly's honesty is refreshing. If today's Satanists are sometimes nasty to Wiccans, well, how would you react to a bunch of people who went out of their way to deny their own roots, just so they could disown you?

What's especially annoying is the way many Wiccans claim the word "Witchcraft" as a name for their own religion, defining not only "Wicca" but also "Witchcraft" as a religion distinct from Satanism. Excuse me, but witchcraft is not a religion. There are witches all over the world, in many different cultures. They don't all belong to one religion. A witch can be any religion. One of my great-grandfathers was a "water witch" who told people where to dig wells. He was a devout Christian. If a Christian can be a witch, then so can a Satanist. There have been both Christians and Satanists calling themselves witches long before today's Wiccans came along. (See Randolph's and Creighton's books, for example.) So I really wish Wiccans would stop using the word "witchcraft" as a name for their own specific religion. I don't object to Wiccans calling themselves witches, but I do object to the idea that all true witches are Wiccan (or at least Pagan) and that, therefore, Satanists can't be witches.

Wiccans are welcome to call their specific religion "Wicca", an archaic word that they themselves resurrected. Another good name for their specific religion is "Neo-Pagan Witchcraft", a phrase suggesting that their religion is a subcategory of witchcraft, not witchcraft as a whole. Thus, it's accurate to say, "Neo-Pagan Witchcraft is not Satanism", whereas it's misleading to say, "witchcraft (in general) is not Satanism".

It would also be nice if Wiccans would stop making inaccurate pronouncements on what Satanism is, such as, "Satanism is a form of Christianity" or "To be a Satanist, you must believe in the Christian God".

Diane Vera
Originally written January 1992.
Revised January 1994, March 1996.

[Cicero]

How can you even begin to know what an entity you can't even see believes in? Satan believes in God too,what a spurious claim.

Well obviously in the Christian believe satan believes in God. It's not a false claim.

[FreeFall]

What spirit group are you in? The one I'm most familiar with is the Celtic group and some Dianic. I'm also slightly familiar with the 3 fold law and the elements.

And that the horned god will forever scare the lights out of me.

[Zenos]

Well obviously in the Christian believe satan believes in God. It's not a false claim.


Actually it is a false claim because it's people claiming to know what Satan believes in,likwe they actualy talked to him before..lol

[CharlieFinley]

It's pretty funny you say that when your name has 666 in it which is well known for "The beast" meaning satan. So what your saying is rather hypocritical, your saying wiccans are satan worshipers when you have 666 in your name tag...

And actually wiccans are pretty peaceful people, correct me if I'm wrong, but they believe that energy is all around and most wiccans use that energy for things like healing and health and well being.
Actually, she said they were doing the work of the Devil. It's quite a different concept. What was it Alsan said, in the last Chronicle of Narnia?
Something to the effect of "That which you do in the name of Tash, but is good, you do for Me. That which you do in My name, but is evil, you do for Tash."

[Yonkers]

My opinion on Wicca (like it is on most religions) is bullshit. The whole concept of the non-scientific manipulation of matter is, quite frankly, silly. How does one use the "magic" commonly practised my Wicca? Because there is no valid scientific explanation of it. I am by all means interested as I am in all regions (I even dabbled in Paganism myself at one point) but the whole concept of manipulating energy is impossible.

[Cicero]

Actually it is a false claim because it's people claiming to know what Satan believes in,likwe they actualy talked to him before..lol

Well if satan was in heaven before, and God tells satan the limitations. I assure you, God believes in satan and satan believes in God.

[ackmedsgirl666]

yup they once lived together
satan was once an angel in heaven and then he fucked up and god banished him
there was a big fight with horses and stuff(my dad has a picture) and thats how hell was created

[Majin Vegeta]

666 if you must know Is my sisters birthday


wow, your sister was born on June, 66th?
if she was born in June, 6th 2006 then it would be 6/6/06 and you would be using 6606

[Majin Vegeta]

Isn't Wicca for like 12 year old scene girls who think they're hardcore?

no it's a legitimate practice and belief and there's nothing wrong with scene kids they're a lot nicer than most people I know

[Majin Vegeta]

I have a friend who is wiccan and she like gave me a voodoo doll or something like that for my birthday. I was confused but really interested

she reads the Book of Shadows in the dark surrounded by candles and stuff like that. from what I saw online that book is like $400 but I'm sure it's worth it

can you explain the Book of Shadows for me?

[Amaryllis]

I, myself, am Pagan - as my ancestors before me - and for the most part, Wiccan.

Firstly, most Wiccans are closer to tree-hugging peace-lovers than creepy voodoo goths bleeding into chalices. In fact, most of the Wiccans I know are really cheerful, funny people. Most of us believe if you get blood on your athame (a double edged knife we used for rituals a.k.a. letter opener) you must burn it.

We're more of a dancing around a maypole (pole with lots of ribbons) and worshiping nature peoples than the cursing sort. Perhaps some Witches delve into the darker stuff (although we do that, too, but a true Wiccan wouldn't use it to harm) but Wicca is a religion, of sorts.

We abide by the Wiccan rede: An it harm none, do as yee will. We also believe in the threefold law in which whatever you do will come back to you threefold a.k.a. karma. Most Wiccans "pray" to the God and Goddess, although we're polytheistic. We can call upon everyone from Aphrodite to Jesus and Kwan Yin to Krishna.

Mostly, Wicca revolves around nature in that we believe in treasuring it. We celebrate the eight Sabbats, including Yule (Winter Solstice) and whatnot. It derives from a lot of present and past cultures and religions. For example, my relatives are Buddhists and Taoists and they celebrate the Winter Solstice as Wiccans do, except it goes by other names.

Wiccans do not believe in the existence of Satan as we generally don't think in black and white with obvious lines of "good" and "evil."


I have a friend who is wiccan and she like gave me a voodoo doll or something like that for my birthday. I was confused but really interested

she reads the Book of Shadows in the dark surrounded by candles and stuff like that. from what I saw online that book is like $400 but I'm sure it's worth it

can you explain the Book of Shadows for me?

A Book of Shadows (BOS) is a book a Witch records his/her practice in. It can include journalling, details on animal totems, spells, chants, rituals, review of a celebration and whatnot. We pass our BOS to the next generation and so on. A BOS is personal and if someone's selling one for $400, it isn't legitimate. Or, well, if it is, you still shouldn't buy it because the Wiccans you want to associate yourself with don't believe in reaping money from their practice. Often they will share their knowledge and wisdom for a small donation or none at all.

My BOS is a simple binder I got for $2 at a bookstore and filled with my own knowledge and that of others. I also read it in lights powered by electricity haha. We normally just use candles for relaxation, spells, celebrations and rituals, not for everyday use. Although, candles aren't a necessity. Nothing is, really.

[Zenos]

Well if satan was in heaven before, and God tells satan the limitations. I assure you, God believes in satan and satan believes in God.

For one it's a myth.

2) By rebelling in that myth Satan showed "Free will",which means he can do wqhat he wants to do!

3) In the New testament he is constantly in the later books refered to as the ruler of this world and the king of this world by Paul,so that plus the fact in the myth of the fall he has free will he can do anything he wants.


But lets get back to what this thread is about and not hijack it with stuff about non-wiccan religions..k?

[Zenos]

I have a friend who is wiccan and she like gave me a voodoo doll or something like that for my birthday. I was confused but really interested

she reads the Book of Shadows in the dark surrounded by candles and stuff like that. from what I saw online that book is like $400 but I'm sure it's worth it

can you explain the Book of Shadows for me?

The proper name for the doll in Wicca is "poppet".

I don't know about the proper name in Voodoo,but in the Magical practice here in the Southern USA they are called a "Doll-baby".

Oh and the sticking of pins in dolls to affect people originated in Europe.

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=Amaryllis;2083256]I, myself, am Pagan - as my ancestors before me - and for the most part, Wiccan.

Firstly, most Wiccans are closer to tree-hugging peace-lovers than creepy voodoo goths bleeding into chalices.

(My don't we perpetuate both sterotypes all at once the usual ones about Goths and Voodoo...Sorry Goths aren't like that,nor is Voodoo,which by the way is from New Orleans)


In fact, most of the Wiccans I know are really cheerful, funny people. Most of us believe if you get blood on your athame (a double edged knife we used for rituals a.k.a. letter opener) you must burn it.

We're more of a dancing around a maypole (pole with lots of ribbons) and worshiping nature peoples than the cursing sort. Perhaps some Witches delve into the darker stuff (although we do that, too, but a true Wiccan wouldn't use it to harm) but Wicca is a religion, of sorts.

(i've read alot of books by Wiccans and Raven digitalis meantions curses and says that wiccans can indeed do then,but shuold only do so if it's jusitfied)



We abide by the Wiccan rede: An it harm none, do as yee will. We also believe in the threefold law in which whatever you do will come back to you threefold a.k.a. karma.

(not all Wiccans abide by the Wiccan rede,nor believe in the threefold law/Karma)

Most Wiccans "pray" to the God and Goddess, although we're polytheistic. We can call upon everyone from Aphrodite to Jesus and Kwan Yin to Krishna.

(thats the problem with MODERN-DAY Wicca it's become a CATCH-ALL RELIGION,when Gerald B.Gardner founded Wicca in the 1950's while he did draw on ideas and beliefes from Hinduism and other religions:Ideas like Karma,the three fold law,reincarnation, he did include a lot of Pagan survivals(customs and practices) of Britian,and the oGods worshipped where Celtic,basically outside of beliefs draw from Hinduism and a few other Asian religions,Wicca started out based on what Gardner could find on Paganism from the geographica area known as Great Britian.
Now adays you can call upon the Loa of Haitain Vodu and New Orleans Voodoo two diffrent religions),Greek/Roman deities,Egyptian deities those of India,the Christian Pantheon of saints,angels and such etc etc and draw on a multitude of non-European pagan beliefs and practices and still be called a Wiccan)




Mostly, Wicca revolves around nature in that we believe in treasuring it. We celebrate the eight Sabbats, including Yule (Winter Solstice) and whatnot. It derives from a lot of present and past cultures and religions. For example, my relatives are Buddhists and Taoists and they celebrate the Winter Solstice as Wiccans do, except it goes by other names.

Wiccans do not believe in the existence of Satan as we generally don't think in black and white with obvious lines of "good" and "evil."




A Book of Shadows (BOS) is a book a Witch records his/her practice in. It can include journalling, details on animal totems, spells, chants, rituals, review of a celebration and whatnot. We pass our BOS to the next generation and so on. A BOS is personal and if someone's selling one for $400, it isn't legitimate. Or, well, if it is, you still shouldn't buy it because the Wiccans you want to associate yourself with don't believe in reaping money from their practice. Often they will share their knowledge and wisdom for a small donation or none at all.

My BOS is a simple binder I got for $2 at a bookstore and filled with my own knowledge and that of others. I also read it in lights powered by electricity haha. We normally just use candles for relaxation, spells, celebrations and rituals, not for everyday use. Although, candles aren't a necessity. Nothing is, really.

[Majin Vegeta]

A Book of Shadows (BOS) is a book a Witch records his/her practice in. It can include journalling, details on animal totems, spells, chants, rituals, review of a celebration and whatnot. We pass our BOS to the next generation and so on. A BOS is personal and if someone's selling one for $400, it isn't legitimate. Or, well, if it is, you still shouldn't buy it because the Wiccans you want to associate yourself with don't believe in reaping money from their practice. Often they will share their knowledge and wisdom for a small donation or none at all.

My BOS is a simple binder I got for $2 at a bookstore and filled with my own knowledge and that of others. I also read it in lights powered by electricity haha. We normally just use candles for relaxation, spells, celebrations and rituals, not for everyday use. Although, candles aren't a necessity. Nothing is, really.

wow this is great thanks. it sounds really cool and I do love nature.

I'm sure 20-30 years ago people were considered creepy and weird for doing yoga lol so a lot of the commenters here just aren't being open-minded

[Zenos]

wow this is great thanks. it sounds really cool and I do love nature.

I'm sure 20-30 years ago people were considered creepy and weird for doing yoga lol so a lot of the commenters here just aren't being open-minded

Actuually from what my mom says Yoga got really popular back in the 90's so we better take it back a bit farther to say the 70's and early to mid 80's before we call those yoga people creepy and weird lol.

wow this is great thanks. it sounds really cool and I do love nature.

I'm sure 20-30 years ago people were considered creepy and weird for doing yoga lol so a lot of the commenters here just aren't being open-minded

You can also use a journal,i went to walmart and purchased a 400 and some odd page journal,to put down my beliefs and rituals I use as a druid.

Though my advice is if you plan to go the bound book way,make use to first write you beliefs down in a notebook or better yet use looseleaf paper,that way you can add or if need be change you're beliefs if you don't believe a certain thing and once you are sure you'd BOS is completed as to beliefs,deities and info on them,rituals,etc etc then transfer it to a boundbook!

Please use the "Edit" or "Multi-quote" buttons instead of double posting. ~TheMatrix

[Majin Vegeta]

Actuually from what my mom says Yoga got really popular back in the 90's so we better take it back a bit farther to say the 70's and early to mid 80's before we call those yoga people creepy and weird lol.

haha yeah and it's still a good example of cultural progression and tolerance

You can also use a journal,i went to walmart and purchased a 400 and some odd page journal,to put down my beliefs and rituals I use as a druid.

Though my advice is if you plan to go the bound book way,make use to first write you beliefs down in a notebook or better yet use looseleaf paper,that way you can add or if need be change you're beliefs if you don't believe a certain thing and once you are sure you'd BOS is completed as to beliefs,deities and info on them,rituals,etc etc then transfer it to a boundbook!

bound book sounds like it'd be better to me. it'd make it feel more than just a journal

[Zenos]

haha yeah and it's still a good example of cultural progression and tolerance



bound book sounds like it'd be better to me. it'd make it feel more than just a journal

True i just hope i can finish mine before my fingers go on strike and walk off.lol

[Amaryllis]

(thats the problem with MODERN-DAY Wicca it's become a CATCH-ALL RELIGION,when Gerald B.Gardner founded Wicca in the 1950's while he did draw on ideas and beliefes from Hinduism and other religions:Ideas like Karma,the three fold law,reincarnation, he did include a lot of Pagan survivals(customs and practices) of Britian,and the oGods worshipped where Celtic,basically outside of beliefs draw from Hinduism and a few other Asian religions,Wicca started out based on what Gardner could find on Paganism from the geographica area known as Great Britian.
Now adays you can call upon the Loa of Haitain Vodu and New Orleans Voodoo two diffrent religions),Greek/Roman deities,Egyptian deities those of India,the Christian Pantheon of saints,angels and such etc etc and draw on a multitude of non-European pagan beliefs and practices and still be called a Wiccan)

Well, there is Gardenian Wicca, if you would rather follow the path he made. The thing is, he didn't create Witchcraft, and, well, I wouldn't call him an 'expert' on it, because no one is. That's why we call it "practice" rather than "mastering Wicca."

The Greeks and Egyptians had their own 'Pagan' beliefs, and these deities are just ideas and names we give to the nameless. I think embracing various religions is in no way harmful, although it might draw you some weird looks from neighbours.

A lot of people call themselves Wiccans when they're more Pagan, but since there are no set rules to Wicca besides the Wiccan reed, love of nature (although that's rather Pagan), the celebration of the 8 Sabbats (not all Pagans do, not Druids, for example), and possibly the practice of Witchcraft (but Shamanism and whatnot is rather 'Witchcrafty').

The lines are blurred, and it doesn't matter, because we can believe what we believe, if we respect what others do.

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=Amaryllis;2084159]Well, there is Gardenian Wicca, if you would rather follow the path he made. The thing is, he didn't create Witchcraft, and, well, I wouldn't call him an 'expert' on it, because no one is. That's why we call it "practice" rather than "mastering Wicca."

(well heres the thing Wicca is a form of Witchcraft,but not witchcraft as whole,seeing as Witchcraft is a practice,it would be more correct to call Wicca a form of Neo-pagan Witchcraft,after all it is also a bracnh of Neo-paganism)


The Greeks and Egyptians had their own 'Pagan' beliefs, and these deities are just ideas and names we give to the nameless. I think embracing various religions is in no way harmful, although it might draw you some weird looks from neighbours.

(the thing here is that the All-Gods are one God ,all the Goddesses are one Goddess yadda yadda is not a European Pagan or European Witchcraft belief,that idea comes inpart from the ideas of Carl Jung and is considered psychologizing the gods http://humanisticpaganism.com/tag/jungian-archetypes/. Wicca for decades as been preported to be the "Old Religion" of Western Europe so why worship dieties out side of the ancient cultures that wicca prepurts to decend from?)


A lot of people call themselves Wiccans when they're more Pagan, but since there are no set rules to Wicca besides the Wiccan reed, love of nature (although that's rather Pagan), the celebration of the 8 Sabbats

(not all Pagans do, not Druids, for example( that depends on the Druid or Druid Grove really))



, and possibly the practice of Witchcraft (but Shamanism and whatnot is rather 'Witchcrafty').

The lines are blurred, and it doesn't matter, because we can believe what we believe, if we respect what others do.

[CharlieFinley]

no it's a legitimate practice and belief and there's nothing wrong with scene kids they're a lot nicer than most people I know

What are Wicca's teachings in regards to the effects one can consistently produce through witchcraft?

[asking_alexandriaFTW]

Wow a lot of comments, sorry for not replying for a while I have had hardly any access to the Internet, I've read all your comments and I see there is a lot of comments about the Satan argument, I know this is a strong subject in Wicca but can I ask you all to calm this argument and focus this page on the positive parts of spirituality and I can answer relevant questions.
For all that want to know, Wicca is a very spiritual and mental religion that has been with us for thousands of years from all different cultures and ways of life. Some Wiccan people believe in Spirit, who is the most divine being, who created the Lord and Lady (like a god and a goddess) who then created the Earth. Some also believe in more gods and goddesses, including saints such as st. Bridget. Then there's some that believe in The Green Man. Witches believe in the power and divine forces of nature and that all living things in the world are connected.
If anyone wants to learn more feel free to ask me or search and look up yourself. Peace be with you all! Chloe x

[Zenos]

Wow a lot of comments, sorry for not replying for a while I have had hardly any access to the Internet, I've read all your comments and I see there is a lot of comments about the Satan argument, I know this is a strong subject in Wicca but can I ask you all to calm this argument and focus this page on the positive parts of spirituality and I can answer relevant questions.
For all that want to know, Wicca is a very spiritual and mental religion that has been with us for thousands of years from all different cultures and ways of life. Some Wiccan people believe in Spirit, who is the most divine being, who created the Lord and Lady (like a god and a goddess) who then created the Earth. Some also believe in more gods and goddesses, including saints such as st. Bridget. Then there's some that believe in The Green Man. Witches believe in the power and divine forces of nature and that all living things in the world are connected.
If anyone wants to learn more feel free to ask me or search and look up yourself. Peace be with you all! Chloe x


I disagree on the length of time Wicca has been around seeing as it was founded in the 1950's by Gerald B.Gardner.

Because by the middle ages there where no more pagans in Europe.

And survivals of pagan practices does not equal a full blown underground pagan religion.

Nor do Mideveal Witches equte to being Wiccans!

I suggest you do a sound study on the actual origins of Wicca and move on pastt he Historical back dating down by it's Founder Gerald B.Gardner!

Also despite Gardner and modern Wiccans spin on it there is not a culture that ever existed that did not equate "Witch" with an person that worked evil and consorted with dark demonic type forces (and yes every culture had it's demons) even the pagans of Europe had their various words for witch and they all connected Witch with people that where evil!

I think Wiccans would be more accepted if they dropped the historical back dating and the use of a word that has had evil connotations in every culture that has ever existed.

[asking_alexandriaFTW]

I disagree on the length of time Wicca has been around seeing as it was founded in the 1950's by Gerald B.Gardner.

Because by the middle ages there where no more pagans in Europe.

And survivals of pagan practices does not equal a full blown underground pagan religion.

Nor do Mideveal Witches equte to being Wiccans!

I suggest you do a sound study on the actual origins of Wicca and move on pastt he Historical back dating down by it's Founder Gerald B.Gardner!

Also despite Gardner and modern Wiccans spin on it there is not a culture that ever existed that did not equate "Witch" with an person that worked evil and consorted with dark demonic type forces (and yes every culture had it's demons) even the pagans of Europe had their various words for witch and they all connected Witch with people that where evil!

I think Wiccans would be more accepted if they dropped the historical back dating and the use of a word that has had evil connotations in every culture that has ever existed.

Yes, but the same practices and beliefs have been used long before that.

[Zenos]

Yes, but the same practices and beliefs have been used long before that.

Actually no a lot of what Mr.Gardner passed of as Euopean pagan beliefs was drawn from Asian religions he was interested in.

Concepts like:

Karma
Reincarnation

also ideas like the ThreeFold Law is not a part of any form of European Paganism.

And the idea that Witches do not put curses on people is a total invention of Gardners.


Also the whole skyclad thing comes from the ideas he developed based on the nudist fads of the day,of which he was a follower of.

But all in all for a modern religion it does have some merits.