Yes it's you're body but you can not do what you want with it!

[Zenos]

I have noticed thast women(even teen girls) are all like "It's my body and I can do what I want with it ."

This is a reaccuring idea in the mdeia when a chick gets pregnate,there have even been one or two shows where a teen girl tells her parents that.

Sorry ladies it might be YOUR BODY bit you can't do what you want with it whenn you get pregnate simply because that fetus is NOT part of you're body it's it' own seperate life and body that is just borrowing you're womb for the 9 months it needs to develop.


I have often wondered what kind of woman can termanate a helpless life that is developing within them.What happeend to the protective mother instinct?
Is this how sick humans have gotten?

[Harley Quinn]

I think that it's a woman's own choice whether they abort their child or not. You aren't in their situation and you probably never will be. Yeah, sometimes it's unethical or not morally correct but, as a female myself, if I did ever get pregnant for one reason or another, I don't think I personally, would want to keep it. Is that bad? Yes, to you maybe. But, like I said unless you are actually in that situation, who are you to judge and say that humans are sick. People go through things that you might understand, does that make it wrong? No, it just means you don't get it. Sometimes, it might be the right thing to do. For example rape, would you want to be constantly reminded you got raped and end up hating the child you bring into the world? I mean, in those circumstances I believe that yes, it is the woman's choice. Who are you to deny that right.

[FreeFall]

You talk about maternal instincts like you have a clue. Never in a million years will you ever feel what maternal instincts are, not even close to any hint of a millimeter. You will only and can only ever feel PATERNAL instincts, an entire spectrum in its own that women will also never understand.

Listen, here's what maternal instincts are.
Some kick in the minute the egg attaches to the uterine wall.
For others the maternal instincts kick in AFTER the baby is born.
For others, they won't ever kick in, even if they end up having 7 children they will never have maternal instincts.

So don't pull that maternal instincts crap. It's insensitive to those who do have them but had to abort for financial reasons and health issues. It's offensive to those who have given life but do not have those instincts, they still can feel and often are insecure as a mother and woman due to the lack of what you're waving around in your threat of abortion being an awful crime against motherhood and fetus.

Abortion is a personal and private issue. If the woman is single, she's all rights. If the woman's married, they need to discuss but in the end she must do what is right. Pregnancy is a woman thing. Men stand by and support, often feeling inadequate and left out because they can only feel through their wives/baby mother. It's a sad thing to watch a father craving for the bond, emotions and connection that only a woman can feel.
You are the spectator watching, looking in. You've no place in telling us what we can and cannot do. You will never know pregnancy as we will.

Besides, if it's illegal, the maternal deaths will sky rocket. We will not stop because "oh it's illegal" we will now say "damn, how to do this without dying and getting caught." It'll only be harder to acquire the safe methods needed to live and remain healthy. And you need to understand how borrowing works. Borrowing is when both parties are ok.
If one isn't, then they must take it back.

A woman being forced through a life she doesn't want, because of you own morals, is not a woman anymore but an incubator for a life you won't even give a second thought to 50 years from now.

[Zenos]

I think that it's a woman's own choice whether they abort their child or not. You aren't in their situation and you probably never will be. Yeah, sometimes it's unethical or not morally correct but, as a female myself, if I did ever get pregnant for one reason or another, I don't think I personally, would want to keep it. Is that bad? Yes, to you maybe. But, like I said unless you are actually in that situation, who are you to judge and say that humans are sick. People go through things that you might understand, does that make it wrong? No, it just means you don't get it. Sometimes, it might be the right thing to do. For example rape, would you want to be constantly reminded you got raped and end up hating the child you bring into the world? I mean, in those circumstances I believe that yes, it is the woman's choice. Who are you to deny that right.

Blah blah blah..it's always this psuedo-justification for murder which always endes with Who are you to deny that right.

Who is a woman to say "I have the right to terminate a new life"?

That life didn't ask to be made,but it it's here and as a new life IT HAS the right to have a chance to live,and do something great in life.

But it's always I didn't ask for this child blah blah blah, whent here are people out there who can't have children who wish they could.

A perosn who would abort a child is basically playing god with a new life,plus they are being selfish.

Instead of aborting a child give it up for adoption.

Think about it people who use this reason and that reason to abort a child is basically killing off our future.they coudld be killing of the next great political leader,the person that finds the cure for cancer or aids,the person who is the next great Mozart,of the next great actor or philosopher of spiritual leader or the next great Ghandi,or the person who finds an unlimited soruce of pollution free energey etc etc all just because it's not convenient
for them for some reason.Instead of aborting the child give it up for adoption and GIVE A LIFE A CHANCE at living,loving and changing the world.

You talk about maternal instincts like you have a clue. Never in a million years will you ever feel what maternal instincts are, not even close to any hint of a millimeter. You will only and can only ever feel PATERNAL instincts, an entire spectrum in its own that women will also never understand.


(last timer I checked PATERNAL instincts caused a MAn to want to protect and love his offspring)

Listen, here's what maternal instincts are.
Some kick in the minute the egg attaches to the uterine wall.
For others the maternal instincts kick in AFTER the baby is born.
For others, they won't ever kick in, even if they end up having 7 children they will never have maternal instincts.

So don't pull that maternal instincts crap. It's insensitive to those who do have them but had to abort for financial reasons and health issues. It's offensive to those who have given life but do not have those instincts, they still can feel and often are insecure as a mother and woman due to the lack of what you're waving around in your threat of abortion being an awful crime against motherhood and fetus.

(if it's financial reasons there is ADOPTION,actual health reasons is understandable though)

Abortion is a personal and private issue. If the woman is single, she's all rights. If the woman's married, they need to discuss but in the end she must do what is right. Pregnancy is a woman thing. Men stand by and support, often feeling inadequate and left out because they can only feel through their wives/baby mother. It's a sad thing to watch a father craving for the bond, emotions and connection that only a woman can feel.
You are the spectator watching, looking in. You've no place in telling us what we can and cannot do. You will never know pregnancy as we will.

( how would you know what a father is feeling,everyonme I have known felt nothinmg but joy and pride at being a new father,if they are married and there no health reasons to abort,and a father objects to an abortion then one should not be got,because a father has a right to raise that child because HE HELPED MAKE IT.And as to a bond..lol obviously you know nothing about men they develop bonds with their offspring after the child is born,bonds that are just as strong as any mother-child bond)



Besides, if it's illegal, the maternal deaths will sky rocket. We will not stop because "oh it's illegal" we will now say "damn, how to do this without dying and getting caught." It'll only be harder to acquire the safe methods needed to live and remain healthy. And you need to understand how borrowing works. Borrowing is when both parties are ok.
If one isn't, then they must take it back.

A woman being forced through a life she doesn't want, because of you own morals, is not a woman anymore but an incubator for a life you won't even give a second thought to 50 years from now.



Theres this thing call adoption.I know seveal people who can't have children of their own that would gladly adopt kids.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

[DerBear]

I don't have a problem with abortion. If people want to have one then I agree. Its the women's body and mind and I can respect their wishes.

HOWEVER

I have often thought about. What if, the father of the child says "Hold on here, I want to have this child, even if you don't want to be apart of its life, I want it. He is my flesh and blood and DNA as well you know and I think I have a right".

Well I think if the father of the child wants it and the women doesn't then I think really the father should have the right to raise the child even if the mother doesn't want too.

However, I agree with abortion and I think its a women's choice if both parties don't want the child.

[Zenos]

I don't have a problem with abortion. If people want to have one then I agree. Its the women's body and mind and I can respect their wishes.

HOWEVER

I have often thought about. What if, the father of the child says "Hold on here, I want to have this child, even if you don't want to be apart of its life, I want it. He is my flesh and blood and DNA as well you know and I think I have a right".

Well I think if the father of the child wants it and the women doesn't then I think really the father should have the right to raise the child even if the mother doesn't want too.

However, I agree with abortion and I think its a women's choice if both parties don't want the child.


Again if they don't want it ,have the child and put it up for adoption,besides it maybe that after they have the child one look at it and they realize the have a gift there and keep it.

By the time i was 16 i have been over most of this planet due to the fact my father was in the U.S.Army .Outside of the U.S.,Canada,Europe,Austraila,and New Zealand in the third world nations things are way diffrent in their views on children.

In many Third World nations where medical care is shoddy Children are viewed and a gift and cherished and they are RAISED by their family where as in the U.S.,Canada,Western Europe,Austraila,and New Zealand the attitude toward children is almost that of they are disposable assets.

[Stryker125]

I personally don't view abortion as an option outside of medical necessity, and if anything, would choose adoption. That said though, since I'm a guy, and will never know what it's like to be pregnant or give birth, I don't think I really have a right to tell a woman that she must go through that just because I think it's right. Granted, as the father I'd definitely have a say in the matter, but ultimately it's her decision. Adoption's cool and all, and is the option I personally would choose, but from what I hear, it's quite a long process, and there's no guarantee that the child would end up in a good home.

Basically, I don't agree with abortion, but I also don't agree with telling a woman what she can or cannot do with her body.

[Gigablue]

Sorry ladies it might be YOUR BODY bit you can't do what you want with it when you get pregnant simply because that fetus is NOT part of you're body it's it' own separate life and body that is just borrowing you're womb for the 9 months it needs to develop.


I have often wondered what kind of woman can terminate a helpless life that is developing within them.What happened to the protective mother instinct?
Is this how sick humans have gotten?

Why shouldn't women have control over their own bodies? The fetus depends on them, and thus they should have the choice whether to carry it or not. Women basically have to loan out their bodies for nine months. They shouldn't be forced to to this if they don't want to.

Blah blah blah..it's always this pseudo-justification for murder which always ends with Who are you to deny that right.

Who is a woman to say "I have the right to terminate a new life"?

That life didn't ask to be made,but it it's here and as a new life IT HAS the right to have a chance to live,and do something great in life.

But it's always I didn't ask for this child blah blah blah, when here are people out there who can't have children who wish they could.

A person who would abort a child is basically playing god with a new life,plus they are being selfish.

It isn't murder. A fetus isn't a human being. It has the potential to become one, but that the time of an abortion, it isn't one.

Who are you to judge whether its selfish? The woman might not be able to support the child, either financially or emotionally. You don't know all the circumstances surrounding every pregnancy.

Instead of aborting a child give it up for adoption.

While adoption would be preferable, it shouldn't be the only option. A woman shouldn't be forced to carry a fetus to term if she doesn't want to.

Think about it people who use this reason and that reason to abort a child is basically killing off our future.they could be killing of the next great political leader,the person that finds the cure for cancer or aids,the person who is the next great Mozart,of the next great actor or philosopher of spiritual leader or the next great Ghandi,or the person who finds an unlimited source of pollution free energy etc etc all just because it's not convenient
for them for some reason.Instead of aborting the child give it up for adoption and GIVE A LIFE A CHANCE at living,loving and changing the world.

They could also be the next Hitler. You can't use wild speculation as an argument.

I have often thought about. What if, the father of the child says "Hold on here, I want to have this child, even if you don't want to be apart of its life, I want it. He is my flesh and blood and DNA as well you know and I think I have a right".

Well I think if the father of the child wants it and the women doesn't then I think really the father should have the right to raise the child even if the mother doesn't want too.

However, I agree with abortion and I think its a women's choice if both parties don't want the child.

I think this would be ideal, but impossible. The woman would still have to carry the child and give birth before the father could take over. If he could somehow carry the fetus instead, it would be a very good solution, but sadly that will never be possible.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Hmmm shall I post my opinion on abortion again? I think I will.

I don't think abortion is "right". That being said, I prefer not to force my opinion on others. I don't have a vagina, so I don't have to worry about getting an abortion, but lets say I got a girl pregnant. Would I suggest she get an abortion? Probably not, unless I legitimately thought it was in her best interest. If she decided she wanted an abortion though, I would support her in that decision.

If a woman really wants an abortion she'll get one, even if it isn't legal. How, you ask? She'll probably go to the back of an alley where a van is waiting. Then an unlicensed physician (creepy man) will perform an abortion in an unsafe, unclean environment. Or, perhaps she will beat her stomach with a blunt object. I don't know about you, but I would rather allow women the ability get this procedure done in a safe clean environment.

I don't know your opinion on abortion in the case of rape, but lets say a woman was raped and she became pregnant as a result of it. It's not her fault. I'll assume that you think abortion is an acceptable option in this scenario (even if you don't). In Mexico the law is that you can only get an abortion if you can prove that you were raped. This is kind of like proving you are innocent in a court of law. Can you imagine after being raped to have to relate every detail of it to a bunch of random strangers over and over again? And then if they're too lenient on it then all a woman would have to do is say she was raped.

Then there's the argument of adoption. The thing about adoption is that you still have to give birth, which from what I've heard is an incredibly painful. You also have to carry around a very large parasite inside of you for 9 months. Then for the rest of your life you'll wonder how the baby turned out. In my opinion that's worse than killing it (but some people might have differing opinions, I'm sure).

P.S. You should probably take your time when typing and review what you've written before submitting it. You have quite a few spelling/grammatical mistakes; some of which are in the title.

[Harley Quinn]

Blah blah blah..it's always this psuedo-justification for murder which always endes with Who are you to deny that right.

Who is a woman to say "I have the right to terminate a new life"?

That life didn't ask to be made,but it it's here and as a new life IT HAS the right to have a chance to live,and do something great in life.

But it's always I didn't ask for this child blah blah blah, whent here are people out there who can't have children who wish they could.

A perosn who would abort a child is basically playing god with a new life,plus they are being selfish.

Instead of aborting a child give it up for adoption.

Think about it people who use this reason and that reason to abort a child is basically killing off our future.they coudld be killing of the next great political leader,the person that finds the cure for cancer or aids,the person who is the next great Mozart,of the next great actor or philosopher of spiritual leader or the next great Ghandi,or the person who finds an unlimited soruce of pollution free energey etc etc all just because it's not convenient
for them for some reason.Instead of aborting the child give it up for adoption and GIVE A LIFE A CHANCE at living,loving and changing the world.





Theres this thing call adoption.I know seveal people who can't have children of their own that would gladly adopt kids.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

You aren't a female, therefore you do not understand the female body, therefore your opinion is not justified. Your argument for adoption being an option, well, you try giving birth and pushing something through your vagina when you don't really want it. Adoption is all well and good if you wanted to give birth to it in the first place.

If you're using the God argument, you clearly aren't thinking about those who don't have a faith. You can't play someone who some don't even think is real. It's not 'God's' right to say you have to give birth to this child because you got pregnant to it. No, it's a personal choice and whether you like it or not, you are not a woman, you don't actually endure it. You watch it. There's a difference.

You say this baby that isn't born could be the next big thing, it could also be the next bog serial killer rapist that kills hundreds. You're thinking of how rosey life it, when in fact it isn't.

[Manjusri]

Blah blah blah..it's always this psuedo-justification for murder which always endes with Who are you to deny that right.

Who is a woman to say "I have the right to terminate a new life"?

The fetus grows inside of the woman, therefore it's essentially a part of the woman until the fetus develops into a human and is born as one. Previous to that the fetus isn't sentient, so technically it's not a human.

Aborting a fetus is the same thing as stepping on an ant, it won't have any detrimental effect. A fetus isn't capable of thinking.

But it's always I didn't ask for this child blah blah blah, whent here are people out there who can't have children who wish they could.

In vitro, intrauterine insemination, donor eggs, embryo adoption.

A perosn who would abort a child is basically playing god with a new life,plus they are being selfish.

Instead of aborting a child give it up for adoption.

This is a pretty ignorant statement within itself. Personally i find abortion selfless, rather than selfish. You're preventing that child from a possible traumatizing experience being swapped from house to house with foster care parents / having your biological parents be absent in your life.

Think about it people who use this reason and that reason to abort a child is basically killing off our future.they coudld be killing of the next great political leader,the person that finds the cure for cancer or aids,the person who is the next great Mozart,of the next great actor or philosopher of spiritual leader or the next great Ghandi,or the person who finds an unlimited soruce of pollution free energey etc etc all just because it's not convenient
for them for some reason.Instead of aborting the child give it up for adoption and GIVE A LIFE A CHANCE at living,loving and changing the world.

You can use the same argument twice. "The child could grow up to be an amazing asset to the future of the world!" Yeah, well that child could also genocide half of the population. The fetus doesn't have a determined fate. Saying that you're taking away a persons chance at life isn't a valid argument.

[FreeFall]

(last timer I checked PATERNAL instincts caused a MAn to want to protect and love his offspring)

Congrats. that's EXACTLY what I said. Paternal is the west coast, maternal is the east. You're in a different world, you will NEVER ever in a million years come close to understanding the maternal drive in a way only a woman will ever know.

(if it's financial reasons there is ADOPTION,actual health reasons is understandable though)
Oh god. I will touch on your magical solution of adoption later.

( how would you know what a father is feeling...
How would I know? How would I know, indeed? How about the boy who thought he was going to be a father while we sat through my hysterical pregnancy? When my body thought I was pregnant and went through the motions. Morning sickness, tender breasts, even a mound that made me look 3 months pregnant! He thought there was a baby. He wanted to touch it, love it, feed it, bond with it like he thought I was. He was hurting to be on the outside looking in, because he doesn't have a uterus. (On a side note I was miserable as hell. I can tell you from that experience, I will not be able to bond with my child until it's out of my womb. I was actually going to keep it because of him, his happiness, in my own misery. I never talk about this in details, ever. Not even in real life, but you seem so focused on your own desire that a woman should be submitting to your will, that I had to say it.) But that guy, he longed to switch spots with me, to try and feel what we thought was happening. He craved to be able to be so close, he rubbed and spoke to my bump every day. He nuzzled it, Placed his hand or head by it every time he saw me.
Imagine how damn crushed he was when we realized, I wasn't pregnant just having a medical condition. Imagine, how awkward and heartbreaking it was for him when the heartbeat that they thought was my baby's a week before, was actually my own. That my womb was empty, that my uterus had just expanded because of my mind. That there was never a fetus, embryo or anything. Just a fake, gaping space, thanks to my body. He broke up with me you know because of it, he couldn't take that pain.
Is that enough information for you?

,everyonme I have known felt nothinmg but joy and pride at being a new father,if they are married and there no health reasons to abort,and a father objects to an abortion then one should not be got,because a father has a right to raise that child because HE HELPED MAKE IT.And as to a bond..lol obviously you know nothing about men they develop bonds with their offspring after the child is born,bonds that are just as strong as any mother-child bond)
What? how is this relevant to what I said? You may as well be speaking about apples and how the Granny smith is better than Red Delicious. I do believe I sympathized with men in how they miss out until the child is actually there for them to hold in the bonding department. They will never have the same bond a mother has to her child.
Get back on the topic buddy. See my last reply on the last subject. I feel I do, in fact, know.

Theres this thing call adoption.I know seveal people who can't have children of their own that would gladly adopt kids.
There's this thing called IVF! I know several people who would gladly use it because they can't have kids. There's this thing called surrogacy! I know several people who would gladly use one because they can't have kids. There's this thing called the foster system! I know several people who would gladly use it because they can't have kids. There's this thing called ICSI! I know several people who would gladly use it because they can't have kids! There's this thing called IUI! I know several people who would use it because they can't have kids.

Yes, there are many alternatives to natural child birth for those who don't want it or cannot have it. What's your point?

Who are you to force the fertile to be the "will bearers" of the infertile? look I have several sterile friends. A couple of them are sterile through STDs. They were there when I went through my false pregnancy. They were there when I said, had I been smart and brave a not such a doormat, I would've aborted or forcibly miscarried that baby had there been one. They were there and agreed with me, that it was my choice and my right. I freak out and apologize cuz hey, they can't have kids. But they assured me they'd never impose me to be their stand in child bearer.

Sterility sucks. I've also experienced being afraid of sterility! (I'm a great big bag of fun random things). Estrogen supplements fixed that right quick, but for a month I was dancing the line of never being able to have children. Countered with my previous hysterical pregnancies, this made it worse because my body has odd reactions. But never, would I ever, expect a woman to go through a mental and emotional hell for my selfish sake. The fertile people do not have a responsibility in supplying children for those who cannot have them.

And adoption is not a "here's the kid now bye bye!". Sometimes, it's worse than abortion. It all depends on the woman. The mother worries if she made the right choice. What if the kid's beating beaten black and blue? What if they've killed the baby she gave up? What if the baby's being sold into the sex trade? What if the baby finds her? What if she has a new family the baby she gave up is crushed that they were not chosen to stay? What if she tried to stay in contact yet the family cuts her out of their lives and she just lost the baby twice over? What if the baby grows up to be a serial killer? What if the baby could've found a cure for cancer but their adopted family suppressed them? What if the baby hates their life and kills itself?

It depends on the woman. It depends on many factors. But in the end, her well being trumps that which is yet to be able to exert it.

[Sir Suomi]

Brought up abortion on here.... Bad move man.
Well, here's my two cents on the subject:
I think in cases where the mother's life is in serious danger, as in cases where the fetus developes in the fallopian tube, it is permissable. Also in cases of rape and incest, it should be allowed. But when I see young teen have unprotected sex, end up getting pregnant, and abort the fetus because "I'm too young to be a mom", "I can't handle a baby", or "having a baby will ruin my life", it sickens me. First off, you shouldn't be having sex if you are not prepared to face the possibility of pregnancy, especially if you choose to be unprotected. Second, sex should not be just for the pleasure. Sure, it's great, but having sex just to have sex is wrong in my opinion. Sex should be with those you love, and that both parties are both willing. I personally think when it's a case like that, they should not allow abortions. Watching 16 & Pregnant makes me ashamed that I live in our world sometimes.

But that's enough of that rant. Have fun with all the shit you'll get for posting this! :P

[xXJust Jump ItXx]

You talk about maternal instincts like you have a clue. Never in a million years will you ever feel what maternal instincts are, not even close to any hint of a millimeter. You will only and can only ever feel PATERNAL instincts, an entire spectrum in its own that women will also never understand.

Listen, here's what maternal instincts are.
Some kick in the minute the egg attaches to the uterine wall.
For others the maternal instincts kick in AFTER the baby is born.
For others, they won't ever kick in, even if they end up having 7 children they will never have maternal instincts.

So don't pull that maternal instincts crap. It's insensitive to those who do have them but had to abort for financial reasons and health issues. It's offensive to those who have given life but do not have those instincts, they still can feel and often are insecure as a mother and woman due to the lack of what you're waving around in your threat of abortion being an awful crime against motherhood and fetus.

Abortion is a personal and private issue. If the woman is single, she's all rights. If the woman's married, they need to discuss but in the end she must do what is right. Pregnancy is a woman thing. Men stand by and support, often feeling inadequate and left out because they can only feel through their wives/baby mother. It's a sad thing to watch a father craving for the bond, emotions and connection that only a woman can feel.
You are the spectator watching, looking in. You've no place in telling us what we can and cannot do. You will never know pregnancy as we will.

Besides, if it's illegal, the maternal deaths will sky rocket. We will not stop because "oh it's illegal" we will now say "damn, how to do this without dying and getting caught." It'll only be harder to acquire the safe methods needed to live and remain healthy. And you need to understand how borrowing works. Borrowing is when both parties are ok.
If one isn't, then they must take it back.

A woman being forced through a life she doesn't want, because of you own morals, is not a woman anymore but an incubator for a life you won't even give a second thought to 50 years from now.

This stuff.

[thatguywhosaysEH]

Personally I feel abortion is okay under certain circumstances, such as health hazards. I also feel if the woman is stupid enough to have unprotected sex and gets pregnant and doesn't want it she deserves 9 months of hell and then should put it up for adoption. I also feek the father should have a say. If he is willing to parent the child and the mother allowed him to impregnate her she should have the child be born, aside from health concerns. All in all, if you don't want a child, don't have sex.


And to the person who said he cannot use wild speculation because it could be the next hitler, he can. It is completely possible that the child could accomplish something great. Hitler was bad and good, his acts were terrible, but the effects(war) led the world out of a depression, so as bad as it sounds, hitler helped the world as well as destroyed

[FreeFall]

All in all, if you don't want a child, don't have sex.
He said to the pregnant rape victim...

[thatguywhosaysEH]

Sorry, though people would be smart enough to figure out that rape is a different story... But I guess not

[CharlieFinley]

You aren't a female, therefore you do not understand the female body, therefore your opinion is not justified.

That is utterly wrong to the point of being nonsense. Never mind that I disagree with almost everything he said. Other people are already ripping him apart from that. I just thought I would let you know that you females don't have a monopoly on understanding vaginas any more than ditzy, air-headed blondes have a monopoly on understanding peroxide and spray-tan.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

Sorry, though people would be smart enough to figure out that rape is a different story... But I guess not

I mentioned this earlier. Can you imagine how difficult it could be to prove you were raped? Right now if you go into a hospital and say you were raped they are not going to question it. Think about the victims that don't come forward though. They might get pregnant and not realize it for weeks, after which time a lot of the evidence of rape isn't there. In other words when you take away abortion for all women, except in the case of rape, you're putting women through more trauma than they need to go through. They might have to go in front of a jury and explain in detail what happened. That's almost like being raped again. Also think about the possibility that by the time she proves she was raped it's too late to have the abortion because the law prohibits abortions if the pregnancy is so far along. So no rape is in fact not a different story. You take the right away from all women and it just makes it more traumatic for rape victims.

Here's an example of this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/07/10-year-old-girl-gives-birth_n_1135481.html

[FreeFall]

Sorry, though people would be smart enough to figure out that rape is a different story... But I guess not
Ouch. Now I'm not smart. Rape is a different story, completely so indeed. I do not take rape lightly in any manner, believe me.

But the fetus is the same. If I put a fetus chosen to be made, and a fetus from rape side-by-side, they are the same. They're both fetus. They both would have grown the same way in the womb, until the sex was created. They both had equal potential and equal opportunity of life.

You must be insinuating that a raped woman has more right to abort than any other woman. Am I wrong?

So now, who are YOU to decide what makes a fetus more special than the other? Why do you get to say that a fetus of rape is less valuable and less significant than any other fetus? Would you dare go up to any person who is a known product of rape and call them worthless and that their mother had every right to abort them, that they're less valuable than someone whose parents willingly and lovingly procreated?
Is not forcing a woman unwilling to give birth, no matter the circumstance of how it happened, the same? An unwanted pregnancy is an unwanted pregnancy.

Allowing abortions only for rape, which is in itself hard to prove and confuses me as to how and why it is that way, would also destroy the true rape victims. We'd have women desperate for abortion that they'd try their hardest to prove themselves as rape victims, even though they aren't. There'd be so many false claims of rape, that the real rape victims will be shoved under the pile of garbage created by the liars. This can only add to their trauma, and in such, let's protect our rape victims and assist them instead of adding more rings of fire for them to jump through for closure and.peace,

[Mortal Coil]

But the fetus is the same. If I put a fetus chosen to be made, and a fetus from rape side-by-side, they are the same. They're both fetus. They both would have grown the same way in the womb, until the sex was created. They both had equal potential and equal opportunity of life.

You must be insinuating that a raped woman has more right to abort than any other woman. Am I wrong?

No, you're just misunderstanding the pro-life movement in its entirety. See, it doesn't actually care about saving lives. It's about punishing women for having sex. If it's rape, the woman did not choose to have sex and therefore the action doesn't warrant the "punishment" of being forced through a long and painful pregnancy, labor and child-rearing future.
Hey, at least the title is honest about how the anti-choicers feel.

[thatguywhosaysEH]

What I'm saying is that if the women willingly has sex and gets pregnant she should have the child becaude its her fault and she should suffer the 9 months

[Gigablue]

What I'm saying is that if the women willingly has sex and gets pregnant she should have the child becaude its her fault and she should suffer the 9 months

Why? Isn't that a bit extreme? Yes, she made a bad choice, but nine months of punishment is just cruel. Also, what about the man. His decision is just as bad, and yet he gets off without any punishment. This is just a ridiculous double standard against women.

[Lost in the Echo]

I don't really agree with abortion, but I do have to agree that abortion is a woman's right.
The reason I don't agree with abortion, is because I think every fetus should have a chance to be born, and have a chance at life.
If a woman is raped though, then I can understand why she would want to have an abortion.

The time I don't think abortion should completely be up to the woman, is when she's in a relationship, and the guy who had sex with her wants to keep the baby.
I think if a woman has an abortion in that situation, it would be unfair to the guy who wants to be a father.
It would also be unfair to said guy, since he helped create the baby too.

So, in most cases it is a woman's right, but if she's in a relationship, and the guy wants to be a father, then it should be a decision made by the couple, not just the woman, because the guy who creates the child should have a say-so in this matter.

[PerpetualImperfexion]

I don't really agree with abortion, but I do have to agree that abortion is a woman's right.
The reason I don't agree with abortion, is because I think every fetus should have a chance to be born, and have a chance at life.
If a woman is raped though, then I can understand why she would want to have an abortion.

The time I don't think abortion should completely be up to the woman, is when she's in a relationship, and the guy who had sex with her wants to keep the baby.
I think if a woman has an abortion in that situation, it would be unfair to the guy who wants to be a father.
It would also be unfair to said guy, since he helped create the baby too.

So, in most cases it is a woman's right, but if she's in a relationship, and the guy wants to be a father, then it should be a decision made by the couple, not just the woman, because the guy who creates the child should have a say-so in this matter.

The man doesn't have to endure the pregnancy, so I he should have absolutely no say in the matter. He can advise the woman, but ultimately it's her decision and he should support her in it.

[Lost in the Echo]

The man doesn't have to endure the pregnancy, so I he should have absolutely no say in the matter. He can advise the woman, but ultimately it's her decision and he should support her in it.

I see what you're saying, but it would be unfair to the guy if he wants to be a father, it would be especially unfair because he helped create the baby.
It should be a decision made by the both of them, not just one of them.

[FreeFall]

What I'm saying is that if the women willingly has sex and gets pregnant she should have the child becaude its her fault and she should suffer the 9 months
Oooh! I see now. I totally understand.

The woman who has her tubes tied, is on birth control, has an IUD installed, even timed sex for when she isn't at her fertile peak, used a condom and has spermicide at the ready just in case the condom broke, was a stupid whore who spread her legs and really deserves pregnancy as a punishment.

Because, you know, pregnancy is the new stockades. Yes, how dare we have eggs. How dare we have a uterus. How dare our vagina be a pathway for the penis. Sex is a two way thing. Conceiving is a two way thing, egg and sperm are needed. But pregnancy is 100% woman. Shame on us, shame on womanhood! For our disgusting womanly abilities to carry a baby, all who have sex no matter what precautions were taken or not, we must suffer a maximum of 39 weeks as an incubator! Enjoy your new, growing, scarlet letter ladies.

[Jess]

@OP: You have no right to say a woman can't do whatever she wants with her body, just because YOU think it's wrong. It's her decision, a personal and private one. A fetus's "rights" should not trump a woman's.

Better to let women have a CHOICE, to be able to access SAFE abortions, then be forced to go into a dark alley and get one that's unsafe.

[kenoloor]

tl;dr this entire fucking thread.

My 2p:

I think it's funny when an individual purports to have a monopoly on women's rights...especially when that individual is not a woman. This issue boils down to a double-standard that people seem to have. (i.e: woman has sex, she should suffer for nine and a half months; man has sex, no suffering for him. He just moves on to the next flavor of the day.) This essentially is an argument of rights and who controls those rights. Being pro-choice does not make you pro-abortion. It makes you pro-choice. Crazy, right? Now can we please shut the hell up and go back to worrying about shit that actually affects us?
jesus fucking christ.

[Human]

I think abortions should only happen when they can prove the condom or something broke or that they were raped

[Zenos]

@OP: You have no right to say a woman can't do whatever she wants with her body, just because YOU think it's wrong. It's her decision, a personal and private one. A fetus's "rights" should not trump a woman's.

Better to let women have a CHOICE, to be able to access SAFE abortions, then be forced to go into a dark alley and get one that's unsafe.

Again why not adopt the baby out ,there are people who can't have children of their own that would adopt it!

[thatguywhosaysEH]

Oooh! I see now. I totally understand.

The woman who has her tubes tied, is on birth control, has an IUD installed, even timed sex for when she isn't at her fertile peak, used a condom and has spermicide at the ready just in case the condom broke, was a stupid whore who spread her legs and really deserves pregnancy as a punishment.

Because, you know, pregnancy is the new stockades. Yes, how dare we have eggs. How dare we have a uterus. How dare our vagina be a pathway for the penis. Sex is a two way thing. Conceiving is a two way thing, egg and sperm are needed. But pregnancy is 100% woman. Shame on us, shame on womanhood! For our disgusting womanly abilities to carry a baby, all who have sex no matter what precautions were taken or not, we must suffer a maximum of 39 weeks as an incubator! Enjoy your new, growing, scarlet letter ladies.

Pregnancy is not 100% female, there would be no pregnancy without the man. the father should have the right for his child to be born if the woman has the right for her child to be not born.
The sad part is, I'd thought this place was somewhere I can express an opinion without getting bullshit back from someone who thinks they know it all (just because you're a woman) but I guess it isn't

[Zenos]

Pregnancy is not 100% female, there would be no pregnancy without the man. the father should have the right for his child to be born if the woman has the right for her child to be not born.
The sad part is, I'd thought this place was somewhere I can express an opinion without getting bullshit back from someone who thinks they know it all (just because you're a woman) but I guess it isn't

Dude i have done enough research when it comes to children ,because even though i'm gay I want children of my own,and it's rather sad laws pertaining to children even in the womb pertty much write men out of the picture rights wise even though for a woman to get pregante is is 50/50. 50% her and 50% the man she sleeps with.

And yet at the same time a father can legally sign his rights to his child away 0_0 The legal system is totally screwed over in my opinion.

[Jess]

Again why not adopt the baby out ,there are people who can't have children of their own that would adopt it!

Why should adoption be the only choice? If I become pregnant, I'm not going through 9 months of hell just to give birth and give up the baby for adoption. I'm not going to let someone else make that decision for me.

http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=3005&pictureid=29856

I think abortions should only happen when they can prove the condom or something broke or that they were raped

The latter will be traumatizing, wouldn't it? Would a woman really want to recount every detail of what happened to her, to prove that it happened? (Unless you didn't mean that she has to prove it happened - if so, sorry, my mistake)

You didn't mention it, but I think you would definitely agree that abortions would also be necessary if the mother's life was in danger (Ireland probes death of ill abortion-seeker (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=158413)).

[Ryhanna]

I don't have a problem with abortion. If people want to have one then I agree. Its the women's body and mind and I can respect their wishes.

HOWEVER

I have often thought about. What if, the father of the child says "Hold on here, I want to have this child, even if you don't want to be apart of its life, I want it. He is my flesh and blood and DNA as well you know and I think I have a right".

Well I think if the father of the child wants it and the women doesn't then I think really the father should have the right to raise the child even if the mother doesn't want too.

However, I agree with abortion and I think its a women's choice if both parties don't want the child.
This is something that I've always thought about. I fully believe that a woman has every right to an abortion should she choose to, but how much of a say should the father have? Several posts in here have concluded that sex is a two way street, and the man has as much involvement in creating the child as the woman. Is it contradictory then, to say that because it's not his body carrying the baby, he has very little choice in the matter of abortion?

That's the only problem that I have with abortion. Obviously I understand that it's not fair of a man to expect a woman to go through with a pregnancy that she doesn't want, just because he wants the baby. It just saddens me to know that at the end of the day, what the father wants means nothing, even though it's his child too.

[kenoloor]

The sad part is, I'd thought this place was somewhere I can express an opinion without getting bullshit back from someone who thinks they know it all (just because you're a woman) but I guess it isn't

yeah man fuck women and our damn gestation period like what the fuck men are totally the ones to get pregnant and they should have a right to put the mother through nine and a half months of torture for punishment because we're such whores like really you guize it was gods decision in the old testuhment hurr durrr

[Sir Suomi]

yeah man fuck women and our damn gestation period like what the fuck men are totally the ones to get pregnant and they should have a right to put the mother through nine and a half months of torture for punishment because we're such whores like really you guize it was gods decision in the old testuhment hurr durrr

Dude, give the guy some slack. He's just trying to show his opinion. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you have to make him feel like a retard. You don't have to be a dick just because his opinion is different then your's. This is why I hate arguing on this site -_-

[kenoloor]

Dude, give the guy some slack. He's just trying to show his opinion. Just because you disagree doesn't mean you have to make him feel like a retard. You don't have to be a dick just because his opinion is different then your's. This is why I hate arguing on this site -_-

This is a debate forum. If you don't like being disagreed with, get out.

[Gigablue]

I think abortions should only happen when they can prove the condom or something broke or that they were raped

This would be very hard to prove. How exactly do you prove that a condom broke? Proving that you were raped would be highly traumatic for women, since they would have to relive it, and is still difficult.

Again why not adopt the baby out ,there are people who can't have children of their own that would adopt it!

Adoption shouldn't be the only option. Do you think it's fair that a woman should have to carry a fetus she doesn't want for nine months, give birth, then give it away, just because she made one bad decision? It just doesn't make sense.

Pregnancy is not 100% female, there would be no pregnancy without the man. the father should have the right for his child to be born if the woman has the right for her child to be not born.

Conception requires a man, but pregnancy is 100% female. The woman has to carry the fetus for nine months. It lives off her body the whole time. If the man played the same role in pregnancy, he should get an equal say, but the fact is men don't play a role in pregnancy.

[thatguywhosaysEH]

This is a debate forum. If you don't like being disagreed with, get out.

Debating and being a dick about it are different things. I can say my opinion and you can come with a counter-statement there is no need for the sarcastic remarks and the rudeness you gave. So i think you should be the one getting out.

Edit: Thank you Austin for seeing what I saw in that post, debating isn't synonymous with: "your opinion doesn't count or I don't like what you said so I'm going to be a dick"

[FreeFall]

Pregnancy is not 100% female, there would be no pregnancy without the man. the father should have the right for his child to be born if the woman has the right for her child to be not born.
The sad part is, I'd thought this place was somewhere I can express an opinion without getting bullshit back from someone who thinks they know it all (just because you're a woman) but I guess it isn't

Do you just have selective reading or are you actually trying very hard to ignore what I post?

I said it takes two but the pregnancy is 100% FEMALE. It's her blood it lives off of. It's her the fetus is connected to. It's her womb that it's in. It's her womb and body that will be changing. It will be her with the milk supply coming in. It will be her going through the contractions. It will be her going through hormones and possible PPD. It will be her giving birth.
A man helps make a child but what's he do after that? Get to hear his wife bitch and moan, and he in return will bitch and moan about how she's bitching and moaning about pregnancy. He can get up and walk away. But the woman will still be pregnant.
I think AS A WOMAN, how dare I be a female, I'm more entitled to "knowing it all" as you put it than you who can pee standing up. Since you know, you could walk away any time and never have anything to do with the child unless hunted down by the woman. But she will always have been pregnant, she will always have given birth, the child will always be more connected through the mother due to having literally grown out from her.

This is a debate. You will get "shit", you just need to know how to deal with the fact that people don't take kindly to you shoving opinions as fact and being pugnacious about it while disregarding others. That's the sad part here.

[GuillaumeBordeaux]

You are a sad control centered person if you think you can tell a woman what she can and cannot do with HER body. You don't have that control over anyone but yourself. To suggest as much that anyone but the person them self can control their sexual reproduction is completely convoluted. You belong in the dark ages.

[thatguywhosaysEH]

Do you just have selective reading or are you actually trying very hard to ignore what I post?

I said it takes two but the pregnancy is 100% FEMALE. It's her blood it lives off of. It's her the fetus is connected to. It's her womb that it's in. It's her womb and body that will be changing. It will be her with the milk supply coming in. It will be her going through the contractions. It will be her going through hormones and possible PPD. It will be her giving birth.
A man helps make a child but what's he do after that? Get to hear his wife bitch and moan, and he in return will bitch and moan about how she's bitching and moaning about pregnancy. He can get up and walk away. But the woman will still be pregnant.
I think AS A WOMAN, how dare I be a female, I'm more entitled to "knowing it all" as you put it than you who can pee standing up. Since you know, you could walk away any time and never have anything to do with the child unless hunted down by the woman. But she will always have been pregnant, she will always have given birth, the child will always be more connected through the mother due to having literally grown out from her.

This is a debate. You will get "shit", you just need to know how to deal with the fact that people don't take kindly to you shoving opinions as fact and being pugnacious about it while disregarding others. That's the sad part here.
do you have a bone to pick or something? For fucks sake, is it so hard to argue without trash talking the other person, people like you take the purpose out of a debate. Why bother arguing about something when someone like you is just gonna shrug off what you say and call you stupid? please just end your psychotic rambling now

[kenoloor]

do you have a bone to pick or something? For fucks sake, is it so hard to argue without trash talking the other person, people like you take the purpose out of a debate. Why bother arguing about something when someone like you is just gonna shrug off what you say and call you stupid? please just end your psychotic rambling now

lol good argument

[Aajj333]

You are being extremely biased. Think of this, you got raped and you are pregnant, you are young and can't support it, the baby's life would be terrible, than what would you think?

[CharlieHorse]

This entire thread is based on a sensitive topic with strong opinions. I'd love to crush all my opposition with my words, but that would be such a human thing to do, so I'll only state my opinion:
I'm pro choice, up to a time when the development is 6-8 weeks in. Past that, and I think you might as well just have the baby.
Rape victims shouldn't have their baby.
If a woman doesn't want a child, she has the choice to do whatever she wants if she gets unexpectedly pregnant.

[FreeFall]

do you have a bone to pick or something? For fucks sake, is it so hard to argue without trash talking the other person, people like you take the purpose out of a debate. Why bother arguing about something when someone like you is just gonna shrug off what you say and call you stupid? please just end your psychotic rambling now
Not really. My "bone" being you trying to impose your opinion as a golden solid fact of life that if no one follows it we're doomed? You attempting to convince me that you have all rights to decide what happens with my uterus without my own consent? That just because I have a uterus and am therefore female, I have no standing on forming an opinion about the topic because I need guidance in the ways of the uterus from a man's point of view? Because unlike the other anti-abortion folk who posted here, I got such a vibe from you. Not so much picking it rather than trying to lay out how, why and what reasons you think such. As for trash talk, I saw none. Passive aggressiveness from both sides, but I'm a little sardonic so it's harder for me to catch myself doing. I do see it, my passive aggressive moves, and I apologize for it where it was rude. Nor was this an argument, at least not on my side. Arguments accomplish nothing. I accomplished gaining a deeper insight on certain standing points from the anti group. I'm not psychotic either, pretty well stable for the most part. Nor was I rambling. I'm well on topic and think I posted in a relevant manner. And, the best one, don't tell me what to do.

[thatguywhosaysEH]

And I apologize is it seemed as if I was trying to force my opinon on you when I merely meant to state it. I just didn't like the what I interpreted to be harsh ridicule that I got back from you and note the 'I interpreted'

[Human]

This would be very hard to prove. How exactly do you prove that a condom broke? Proving that you were raped would be highly traumatic for women, since they would have to relive it, and is still difficult.



Adoption shouldn't be the only option. Do you think it's fair that a woman should have to carry a fetus she doesn't want for nine months, give birth, then give it away, just because she made one bad decision? It just doesn't make sense.



Conception requires a man, but pregnancy is 100% female. The woman has to carry the fetus for nine months. It lives off her body the whole time. If the man played the same role in pregnancy, he should get an equal say, but the fact is men don't play a role in pregnancy.
Well how do they convict rapes if they don't want to prove they were raped?

Why should adoption be the only choice? If I become pregnant, I'm not going through 9 months of hell just to give birth and give up the baby for adoption. I'm not going to let someone else make that decision for me.

image (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=3005&pictureid=29856)



The latter will be traumatizing, wouldn't it? Would a woman really want to recount every detail of what happened to her, to prove that it happened? (Unless you didn't mean that she has to prove it happened - if so, sorry, my mistake)

You didn't mention it, but I think you would definitely agree that abortions would also be necessary if the mother's life was in danger (Ireland probes death of ill abortion-seeker (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/showthread.php?t=158413)).
Yes I agree on the last point, and I didn't really mean that they would have to go to court and prove it. I just believe that morally, they should choose not to.

[Taryn98]

I'm Catholic and support life. BUT, abortion should still be legal and women should choose what's best for them.

I feel that life is sacred and should be valued. That's my sense of morality based on how I was raised. I accept that others have a difference sense of morality and different values than I do. That's what makes America great. People can disagree, but everyone has the right to share their opinion and be different.

If someone doesn't feel fit or can't raise a baby and doesn't want to go through pregnancy to give it up for adoption, they have the right to choose what's best for them. Even if I don't like that fact, I respect that others must choose what's best for them based on their morality and their lives, NOT mine.

I simply can't accept it when people feel so superior to others and that they think they are so right, that they can impose their sense of morality onto others.

[Thunderstorm]

Just think of it this way. If she gets raped in her teen years and wasn't ready to have a baby, just think of the baby as a parasite. That's what babies are. They are parasites feeding of their hosts nutrients.

[Mirage]

Blah blah blah..it's always this psuedo-justification for murder which always endes with Who are you to deny that right.

Who is a woman to say "I have the right to terminate a new life"?

That life didn't ask to be made,but it it's here and as a new life IT HAS the right to have a chance to live,and do something great in life.

But it's always I didn't ask for this child blah blah blah, whent here are people out there who can't have children who wish they could.

A perosn who would abort a child is basically playing god with a new life,plus they are being selfish.

Instead of aborting a child give it up for adoption.

Think about it people who use this reason and that reason to abort a child is basically killing off our future.they coudld be killing of the next great political leader,the person that finds the cure for cancer or aids,the person who is the next great Mozart,of the next great actor or philosopher of spiritual leader or the next great Ghandi,or the person who finds an unlimited soruce of pollution free energey etc etc all just because it's not convenient
for them for some reason.Instead of aborting the child give it up for adoption and GIVE A LIFE A CHANCE at living,loving and changing the world.

Theres this thing call adoption.I know seveal people who can't have children of their own that would gladly adopt kids.

Yeah? They could just as well be the next serial killer, or the next person to shoot up a school, or be a pimp, or drink and drive and kill someone else's child. "This thing called adoption" doesn't always work out. Why do you think most people get abortions? Medical complications. Who are YOU to kill someone so that they can then create a child who will bounce from foster home to foster home, wondering who their parents were? Why not let the mom abort and try again if and when she is fully and completely ready to have a child?

[FreeFall]

Well how do they convict rapes if they don't want to prove they were raped?
Are you serious? Have you ever met a rape victim? They are broken people and the way our courts are, they only break more. They freak out and want comfort and rarely go straight to the hospital. They go home, rest, wash, cry and by then the "evidence" is vanishing. They know that there's a ton of victim shaming in this country. "Oh you wore those heels? No wonder you were raped." "Oh you got drunk and walked alone in the dark, that was asking for rape." "You got in the car with him? No wonder you were raped!" The people who obey those "If you are raped" rules are the strong and brave who know if they don't, another will break and they want to stop it. But even then, it's hard to prove that the semen in your vagina is there by force. If the rapist doesn't leave bruises and by some stroke of luck, doesn't cause damaged to her non-lubricated genitals, how valid is her claim? Especially when we have stupid women in this country that claim rape because they're pissed off at their boyfriend and set them up to look like a rapist? It's not that they don't want to prove they were raped, it's that they shouldn't have to jump through the ring of fires to prove they were violated. Like the courts are saying, "hmmm yes it does look like rape, but do you have anymore evidence to prove you're not just a dirty slut?" And in general, our laws suck.

The age of consent in my state is 16. Think of the typical 16 year old and how most of them seem to flock to middle aged men. Think how easy it would be for a 40 year old rapist to say the 16 year old wanted it but hates him because he won't leave his wife for her and is now trying to ruin him. Think how if she were to go to the courts, how many people would look at her as a dirty whore that sleeps with older men.

It's not the victims fault, it's our's and how damn hard we've made it for them both legally and as a society.

As for how they convict rapes, ring of fires. It's a he-said-she-said type of deal over here. Bodily DNA samples from everyone and the clothing worn, mental evaluation (aka a therapist asking the victim to realize their trauma so they can evaluate the victim), the victim meeting their rapist, it doesn't make sense.


Yes I agree on the last point, and I didn't really mean that they would have to go to court and prove it. I just believe that morally, they should choose not to.
Morally? By your morals you mean right? Morals are relative and what you feel is, isn't to every other single person. You're in the right ti state your opinion, but in trying to force it on every other human, is what I feel is immoral.

[Human]

Are you serious? Have you ever met a rape victim? They are broken people and the way our courts are, they only break more. They freak out and want comfort and rarely go straight to the hospital. They go home, rest, wash, cry and by then the "evidence" is vanishing. They know that there's a ton of victim shaming in this country. "Oh you wore those heels? No wonder you were raped." "Oh you got drunk and walked alone in the dark, that was asking for rape." "You got in the car with him? No wonder you were raped!" The people who obey those "If you are raped" rules are the strong and brave who know if they don't, another will break and they want to stop it. But even then, it's hard to prove that the semen in your vagina is there by force. If the rapist doesn't leave bruises and by some stroke of luck, doesn't cause damaged to her non-lubricated genitals, how valid is her claim? Especially when we have stupid women in this country that claim rape because they're pissed off at their boyfriend and set them up to look like a rapist? It's not that they don't want to prove they were raped, it's that they shouldn't have to jump through the ring of fires to prove they were violated. Like the courts are saying, "hmmm yes it does look like rape, but do you have anymore evidence to prove you're not just a dirty slut?" And in general, our laws suck.

The age of consent in my state is 16. Think of the typical 16 year old and how most of them seem to flock to middle aged men. Think how easy it would be for a 40 year old rapist to say the 16 year old wanted it but hates him because he won't leave his wife for her and is now trying to ruin him. Think how if she were to go to the courts, how many people would look at her as a dirty whore that sleeps with older men.

It's not the victims fault, it's our's and how damn hard we've made it for them both legally and as a society.

As for how they convict rapes, ring of fires. It's a he-said-she-said type of deal over here. Bodily DNA samples from everyone and the clothing worn, mental evaluation (aka a therapist asking the victim to realize their trauma so they can evaluate the victim), the victim meeting their rapist, it doesn't make sense.



Morally? By your morals you mean right? Morals are relative and what you feel is, isn't to every other single person. You're in the right ti state your opinion, but in trying to force it on every other human, is what I feel is immoral.

Since when have I tried to force it on every other human? Morals are relative, and your opinion isn't going to be the same as mine as you said.

[Horizon]

I don't think anyone is any better for taking away someones right because they feel it's wrong. Many people don't understand that many other factors come into play when a woman considers abortion an option for her. It could be many financial reasons, she may not be ready, or she may not want the child. But she shouldn't have that option because it goes against someones morals. When it comes down to it, if you don't like abortion, then don't get one. But please, don't try to take that option away from someone because you don't agree with it. It is the woman's body, because as far as we are concerned, that baby grew off of her, and was attached to her. Therefore, making it her body. And if the woman was made to have the baby, because you felt that she /had/ to keep it, then maybe that woman isn't capable of getting a job and taking care of the baby, so she signs up for welfare. Welfare that you pay for in your pay check. Do you really want to be responsible for anothers child, because you felt it was wrong to abort it? I don't think you would. And I don't think it would be fair to the child to have to grow up like that. Your argument against abortion is 100% one sided, only taking into consideration how you feel, and not how others feel.