Rant (Please ignore if you don't care to be offended)

[CharlieFinley]

There is an epidemic of stupidity on the internet. "What qualifies him to say this?" I hear you cry. Well I'll tell you. I'm looking at it right now. I am staring it right in the face, and it is staring right back. This epidemic is concentrated anywhere people are permitted or, heaven forfend, encouraged to argue, bicker, debate, disagree, dispute, feud, hash (and rehash), have at it, lock horns, pettifog, natter, niggle, nitpick, parologize, set to, squabble, quibble, waffle, or wrangle, and it is of truly monstrous proportions.

It is characterized by failures in spelling and in grammar, non sequiturs galore, and the most atrociously unresearched and poorly-thought-out arguments one can imagine. The sheer folly contained in the average internet debate forum -- nay, the average THREAD -- is breathtaking. Were we to ever weaponize stupidity, we would see an arms race, not in nuclear weapons, but in forums. Were we to use it in reactors instead of radioactive material, the world's energy problems would be solved for all eternity -- and then some! Should we manage to engineer a particle similar to the Higgs Boson that would give stupidity mass, every single server for every single debate forum in the world would separately collapse into black holes. We would pull the moon from its orbit, Mars, the Sun! We would unseat the very heavens with the sheer mass of our collective folly!

But instead the internet's stupidity is doomed to eternal ignominy. It shall never accomplish anything useful; it shall only serve as a warning beacon to any intelligent life who should happen to see it. "Don't bother!" the beacon blares. "There's no intelligent life on this planet!"

So I must ask all who read this: what drives you to argue, motivates you to write a long, poorly-written post, yet motivates you not enough to research your claims and check your spelling and grammar and so avoid making a fool of yourself?

Why do you do what you do?

Allow me to clarify my stance. Those of you to whom this post is not addressed know who you are. You don't have to defend yourselves, because it's obvious to all that there are indeed some very intelligent people here. You actually research your posts; you take pride in writing with coherence and occasionally even flair; you can look at the posts which I decry and KNOW that you need not fear being lumped in with them. You impress me. Fear not that I would unjustly associate you with the blithering masses.

[Sugaree]

Oh shit OP, fucking five star post. You're probably going to get the shit ripped out of you for it, but this is perfect.

To answer your question, the internet, I have found, is mostly very liberal about things. Feelings substitute facts and emotionally driven answers substitute lack of intellect. It's been like that at VT for a long time, and it's certainly not going to stop soon. More than anything, I argue and debate here to see if I can change the minds of others. Encouraging them to look further into their system of beliefs, to go beyond their own horizon, can be worth it in the long run. But it's only worth it if the person you're trying to change is willing to change.

[FreeFall]

Oh wow. I love this! I really do enjoy watching you use intellect to get where you want and watch a few others sort of flounder at the fact that your posts have sustenance.

I must admit, I'm guilty of errors that I dislike. Sometimes I blow off some of the odd posts in that teenagers tend to feel that they know it all. Most feel they don't need to research or back things up because, well, they "know". I also feel that they're assuming the other people will research it on their own and not rely on the poster for some facts, even though they'd certainly help in claims.

I come here because I'm interested in seeing how others think, react and feel about certain topics. I like gaining insight from those who are able to actually provide any. Though it seems it puts most on the defensive, like I'm questioning them rather than their thinking. I enjoy getting a broader view. Maybe my own opinion may not change though it has been done, I just like understanding how and why someone has come to the conclusion they have.

[Error 404]

Eh, nothing new.I've seen people trying to convince others that there are lizard people.Or better say "alien" lizards posing as people.

Personally, i don't debate, cause i don't enjoy it, and kinda view it as pointless.But i do follow every now and then, cause there are always some...posts, from certain people that think they know everything, and i enjoy reading posts like that, sometime.

Even if i post in this part of forum, it's usually just my opinion on some things, and i don't argue with others, or at least not much.

[CharlieFinley]

Oh shit OP, fucking five star post. You're probably going to get the shit ripped out of you for it, but this is perfect.


I'm used to it. I used to hang around in the Non-sci-fi forums on spacebattles.com, before I realized that my argumentative persona on SB was bleeding into my online persona. I'm currently on hiatus, but this is a little like hanging out in the kiddie pool. No offense intended to the people who are being reasonable in this thread, because y'all are clearly mature enough for adult swim... but I'm absolutely used to having the shit ripped out of me, and I'd rather it be for being right than wrong.

I'm glad you liked it. :)

[Professional Russian]

Oh yes I love the title. Don't read if you won't be offended. Fucking genious idea to make a title like that. And the basic point of this thread is to call us all stupid right? fucking genious. I hate when people like you come around. Bitch and moan about everything that drives me fuck insane. Oh by the way thanks for calling me stupid I'll take as a compliant comeing from someone that smart you could have. Called me a lot worse

[Mortal Coil]

If you think the posts are stupid, call them out when you see them. I understand where you're coming from, as I'm also annoyed when I see spelling/grammatical errors and poorly constructed or researched arguments, but either don't let it get to you, or call it out. This very post is arguably shoddy seeing as many on VT aren't the way you just described us. I'm sorry that you have that impression.

[Human]

tl;dr

i think anyone has the right to post what they want on the interwebs

[CharlieFinley]

If you think the posts are stupid, call them out when you see them. I understand where you're coming from, as I'm also annoyed when I see spelling/grammatical errors and poorly constructed or researched arguments, but either don't let it get to you, or call it out. This very post is arguably shoddy seeing as many on VT aren't the way you just described us. I'm sorry that you have that impression.

You've an excellent point. Consider it rhetorical license; there are many on this site I would consider very intelligent. I was referring more to the average debater.

That said, I do call them out when I see them, but I'd rather know what causes the problem.
Oh yes I love the title. Don't read if you won't be offended. Fucking genious idea to make a title like that. And the basic point of this thread is to call us all stupid right? fucking genious. I hate when people like you come around. Bitch and moan about everything that drives me fuck insane. Oh by the way thanks for calling me stupid I'll take as a compliant comeing from someone that smart you could have. Called me a lot worse
It actually says, "don't read if you'd rather not be offended." By the way, you misspelled "genius," "coming," "fucking," and "compliment. You also woefully neglected punctuation. See, Mortal Coil? This is me calling out a stupid post. ;)

[Professional Russian]

You've an excellent point. Consider it rhetorical license; there are many on this site I would consider very intelligent. I was referring more to the average debater.

That said, I do call them out when I see them, but I'd rather know what causes the problem.

It actually says, "don't read if you'd rather not be offended." By the way, you misspelled "genius," "coming," "fucking," and "compliment. You also woefully neglected punctuation. See, Mortal Coil? This is me calling out a stupid post. ;)

It'd people like you that me fucking insane. I'm sorry I can't spell correctly its not my fault I only have my phone to reply on here with. If you don't like what I said or say just ignore it.

[CharlieFinley]

It'd people like you that me fucking insane. I'm sorry I can't spell correctly its not my fault I only have my phone to reply on here with. If you don't like what I said or say just ignore it.

And yet you don't like what I had to say, so you attacked me for it.

You continue to prove my point.

[kenoloor]

I remember posting something like this awhile back. Kudos to you, OP, for observing, describing, pointing out, and calling out the shit that goes on in here. Thank you.

[Taryn98]

I totally agree with what you're saying, but if you're so bothered by this, why do you participate? Whether you're on an internet forum or the hallway at school, there's plenty of stupid people around. These things are unavoidable, welcome to life!

Some people are uneducated, some are lazy, some come on here for just pointless chatting with no rhyme or reason other than to kill time. I don't necessarily see anything wrong with that.

Obviously you come on here with a purpose of reasonable debate or discussion. That's totally cool. But others don't always share that mentality or purpose. It seems like you're pissed that everyone doesn't take things as serious as you do. Maybe I'm reading your point wrong though.

What I get out of your argument I would best some up by quoting Clerks:

There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?

[CharlieFinley]

There's nothing more exhilarating than pointing out the shortcomings of others, is there?

Give the lady a prize, she just figured out why I debate! :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Zoe16]

you are intelligent and articulate but ful of sh--

[CharlieFinley]

you are intelligent and articulate but ful of sh--

Why is that?

[Sugaree]

Why is that?

Because they don't agree with you, that's why you're full of shit.

[CharlieFinley]

Because they don't agree with you, that's why you're full of shit.

Forgot about that rule. ;)

[TheBigUnit]

I generally agree with dakota freefall and taryn on these threads but really bud let me remind you that this is a teen forum, I am sometimes impressed by peoples posts here like those about the universe. yes there are a few idiots here, but mostly are articulate enough and knowlegable on what they are saying. I personally here try to a degree with mechanics but in all honesty I could really give a fuck, this site I usually use it before I sleep to knock me out so I Jsghdhjhjhj could care hjhjhjdshj less what I type. That being said I do not like portient people who acts smart here but in all honest is failing school, sounding like a complete hypocite, I cannot stand hypocrites not saying you are but I'm pretty sure there are ppl here who are

[Magical]

There is an epidemic of stupidity on the internet. "What qualifies him to say this?" I hear you cry. Well I'll tell you. I'm looking at it right now. I am staring it right in the face, and it is staring right back. This epidemic is concentrated anywhere people are permitted or, heaven forfend, encouraged to argue, bicker, debate, disagree, dispute, feud, hash (and rehash), have at it, lock horns, pettifog, natter, niggle, nitpick, parologize, set to, squabble, quibble, waffle, or wrangle, and it is of truly monstrous proportions.

It is characterized by failures in spelling and in grammar, non sequiturs galore, and the most atrociously unresearched and poorly-thought-out arguments one can imagine. The sheer folly contained in the average internet debate forum -- nay, the average THREAD -- is breathtaking. Were we to ever weaponize stupidity, we would see an arms race, not in nuclear weapons, but in forums. Were we to use it in reactors instead of radioactive material, the world's energy problems would be solved for all eternity -- and then some! Should we manage to engineer a particle similar to the Higgs Boson that would give stupidity mass, every single server for every single debate forum in the world would separately collapse into black holes. We would pull the moon from its orbit, Mars, the Sun! We would unseat the very heavens with the sheer mass of our collective folly!

But instead the internet's stupidity is doomed to eternal ignominy. It shall never accomplish anything useful; it shall only serve as a warning beacon to any intelligent life who should happen to see it. "Don't bother!" the beacon blares. "There's no intelligent life on this planet!"

So I must ask all who read this: what drives you to argue, motivates you to write a long, poorly-written post, yet motivates you not enough to research your claims and check your spelling and grammar and so avoid making a fool of yourself?

Why do you do what you do?

Allow me to clarify my stance. Those of you to whom this post is not addressed know who you are. You don't have to defend yourselves, because it's obvious to all that there are indeed some very intelligent people here. You actually research your posts; you take pride in writing with coherence and occasionally even flair; you can look at the posts which I decry and KNOW that you need not fear being lumped in with them. You impress me. Fear not that I would unjustly associate you with the blithering masses.


I think you're going for a bit of hyperbole there. Just a bit. Juuuust a tad. Totally off topic - nuclear reactors should be powered with Thorium, not Uranium. SEE WHAT I DID THERE ;)?

Additionally, see, you really make me quite annoyed. WHY?
I employ the same combative tone, I also use blithering (Slightly different context, all right! Massively different results. :(), and I get -repped. What is your holy secret of +rep?

[Ryhanna]

I do agree with you, but I do think that it's important to remember that there are many young members on this website who likely don't fully understand what they're participating in.

Of course, there are also the stupid people.

[CharlieFinley]

I think you're going for a bit of hyperbole there. Just a bit. Juuuust a tad. Totally off topic - nuclear reactors should be powered with Thorium, not Uranium. SEE WHAT I DID THERE ;)?

Additionally, see, you really make me quite annoyed. WHY?
I employ the same combative tone, I also use blithering (Slightly different context, all right! Massively different results. :(), and I get -repped. What is your holy secret of +rep?
I think I've made a few highly-visible posts that coincided with what a lot of other people were feeling at the time, and those "other people" happened to have very high rep powers. I have roughly equivalent numbers of positive and negative reps.

But I definitely just upvoted you for the thorium comment. Thanks!

[Magical]

I think I've made a few highly-visible posts that coincided with what a lot of other people were feeling at the time, at those "other people" happened to have very high rep powers. I have roughly equivalent numbers of positive and negative reps.

But I definitely just upvoted you for the thorium comment. Thanks!

Ehh. I have not been so lucky - although all my +reps have been from people with high rep powers....it's just the masses of red in my rep history...

You did see what I did there :D.

EDIT: Apparently Charles is a reason for -rep.

[PinkFloyd]

Most of the internet stupidity that I see is on Youtube in the comment section. I don't get involved unless I know a lot about the subject or someone says something about me that I don't like. Like if someone said: "My Lamborghini Civic goes 300 miles per hour!" I would say the following:

- Lamborghini doesn't have a model called the Civic, Honda does!
- No production car can get above 270 MPH.

I know where you are coming from on this. I'm sick of internet stupidity too.

[Mirage]

OP, I fucking love you.

Not only do you face the problem in an altiloquent manner, but you manage to inject some personal voracity and humor and it really is a pleasure to read.

[Skyhawk]

Hm. I agree, but you can't really change it. :\

Sometimes my grammar or use of punctuation isn't perfect, but that's usually when I'm in a "dontcare" mood. Many people are in that mood online.

So, if the mass amounts of stupidity online bother you, why bother using the Internet? Discontinuing use would most likely be the quickest solution.

Kudos to you for the rant. It was pleasurable to read.

[Jean Poutine]

I love these rants mostly because of the people answering "I totally get you!" not realizing that 99% of the given community views them as exactly the kind of person the rant is against.

[Haufen]

The Internet is serious business.

[Sir Suomi]

Simply because not everyone thinks of what they say before they post. For some, it's just lack of knowledge. For others, it's because of biases that they refuse to change, or maybe it's just the fact that they are plain stupid.

Now am I part of this culture of stupidity? Some on this site may argue yes, others may argue no. And to be quite honest, majority of the people don't really care.

[Emerald Dream]

So I must ask all who read this: what drives you to argue, motivates you to write a long, poorly-written post, yet motivates you not enough to research your claims and check your spelling and grammar and so avoid making a fool of yourself?

I am not one to argue pros and cons on the political and religious threads, but this right here gets an "A-freaking-men."

Yes, I am guilty sometimes of being a spelling and grammar stickler. The least people can do - even if their points may be insane as hell to others - is learn how to spell/use a spell checker. Actually coming up with facts to support your reasoning would be nice too. Pulling numbers out of the air (when it's obvious) makes you look like a total asshat.

The internet is all about hiding behind a keyboard, isn't it? I bet a lot of these people wouldn't try to "argue" most of their BS face-to-face....because quite simply, it's BS and they know it is. It more about "look at me being a badass" continuing a pointless argument that has been already won/done than it is about actual facts.

[CharlieFinley]

I am not one to argue pros and cons on the political and religious threads, but this right here gets an "A-freaking-men."

Yes, I am guilty sometimes of being a spelling and grammar stickler. The least people can do - even if their points may be insane as hell to others - is learn how to spell/use a spell checker. Actually coming up with facts to support your reasoning would be nice too. Pulling numbers out of the air (when it's obvious) makes you look like a total asshat.

The internet is all about hiding behind a keyboard, isn't it? I bet a lot of these people wouldn't try to "argue" most of their BS face-to-face....because quite simply, it's BS and they know it is. It more about "look at me being a badass" continuing a pointless argument that has been already won/done than it is about actual facts.
You wonderful, amazing person, you. :D

[Majin Vegeta]

the problem with the internet is when I start reading comments on youtube or other sites, it makes me think I'm so smart and surrounded by idiots. I have to read things from places like reddit and tumblr to be reminded that not all humans are trolls/unintelligent. I always research before making an argument and try to be logical and use reason. many people base their opinions on what the rest of society believes in instead of having their own opinions. I have a lot of unpopular opinions and believe in pretty controversial stuff. I take into consideration facts about different countries and time periods, not just present day US

I try to not have too much of an ego even though it seems that the "vocal minority" is actually the majority of people of the world

[CharlieFinley]

the problem with the internet is when I start reading comments on youtube or other sites, it makes me think I'm so smart and surrounded by idiots. I have to read things from places like reddit and tumblr to be reminded that not all humans are trolls/unintelligent. Either I've been in the wrong subreddits, or you've a very low bar for "intelligent."
I always research before making an argument and try to be logical and use reason. many people base their opinions on what the rest of society believes in instead of having their own opinions. I have a lot of unpopular opinions and believe in pretty controversial stuff. I take into consideration facts about different countries and time periods, not just present day US


There's nothing wrong with having controversial opinions, or even with being wrong, so long as you're polite and intelligent about it.

[Majin Vegeta]

Either I've been in the wrong subreddits, or you've a very low bar for "intelligent."

I'm gonna go with the wrong subreddits lol. it was one of the few non-annoying places on the internet during the election when they were talking about politics


There's nothing wrong with having controversial opinions, or even with being wrong, so long as you're polite and intelligent about it.

I agree

[sammy1996]

Oh shit OP, fucking five star post. You're probably going to get the shit ripped out of you for it, but this is perfect.

To answer your question, the internet, I have found, is mostly very liberal about things. Feelings substitute facts and emotionally driven answers substitute lack of intellect. It's been like that at VT for a long time, and it's certainly not going to stop soon. More than anything, I argue and debate here to see if I can change the minds of others. Encouraging them to look further into their system of beliefs, to go beyond their own horizon, can be worth it in the long run. But it's only worth it if the person you're trying to change is willing to change.

One of the main things i've noticed on the internet is you'll very rarely, if ever, change somebodies opinion on anything. In general the people on the internet are way too self centered to ever admit defeat and come around to your way of thinking even if they know they are wrong.

And to the OP, yes the internet is a abyss of stupidity although most the time its almost like a comedic act, but they dont now they are doing it. When people log on to the internet they act stupider than they would in real life, combine that in with the seeming trend of generations caring less about anything except there own little group and social standings within them and you've got one hell of a fuckup on your hands.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

tl;dr

i think anyone has the right to post what they want on the interwebs

Yup this would be my argument. In the US it's called the 1st amendment.

[CharlieFinley]

tl;dr

i think anyone has the right to post what they want on the interwebs

Of course. That's why I have the right to criticize others for posting ill-conceived tripe.

[Majin Vegeta]

Yup this would be my argument. In the US it's called the 1st amendment.

The first amendment doesn't justify being a jerk

[CharlieFinley]

Very little actually justifies being a jerk. The First Amendment just affirms that we can, in fact, be jerks if we are so inclined.

[Jake.the.muss]

Best quote in the world " love the life you live, live the life you love." helped me with my life.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

The first amendment doesn't justify being a jerk

No, but it does just about justify grammatical errors on the Internet, as well as saying your opinion, in essence, that post was pointless, period

[CharlieFinley]

No, but it does just about justify grammatical errors on the Internet, as well as saying your opinion, in essence, that post was pointless, period

It actually doesn't, if you actually stop to think for a moment. The only way in which the First Amendment relates to speech is to say that the government cannot restrict your right to express your beliefs in a manner that is not inconsistent with the public good. Saying the First Amendment justifies a blatant lack of thought or consideration is like saying the Second Amendment justifies brandishing a firearm in a school.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

It actually doesn't, if you actually stop to think for a moment. The only way in which the First Amendment relates to speech is to say that the government cannot restrict your right to express your beliefs in a manner that is not inconsistent with the public good. Saying the First Amendment justifies a blatant lack of thought or consideration is like saying the Second Amendment justifies brandishing a firearm in a school.

You dont seem to be understanding my point too well. I'm not saying that. Im saying the 1st amendment justifies people to have opinions, and share them. (Of course I dont believe grammar has a lot to do with the incredibility of the users posts, and I was kinda wrong there.)

I know that the 2nd amendment doesnt justify firearms on school property, but it does justify the ownership of firearms.

[Antisthenes]

No, but it does just about justify grammatical errors on the Internet, as well as saying your opinion, in essence, that post was pointless, period

Justifies grammatical errors on the Internet, and saying your opinion. Now observe the following:

You dont seem to be understanding my point too well. I'm not saying that. Im saying the 1st amendment justifies people to have opinions, and share them. (Of course I dont believe grammar has a lot to do with the incredibility of the users posts, and I was kinda wrong there.)

I know that the 2nd amendment doesnt justify firearms on school property, but it does justify the ownership of firearms.

To those of blurry vision, in the former statement it was said that it:

"does just about justify grammatical errors on the Internet, as well as saying your opinion"

But in the latter, when he explains what he said,

"1st amendment justifies people to have opinions, and share them."

Now, to those of you who dabble in the study of reasoning,

(Grammatical errors on the Internet as well as saying your opinion) is not the same as to (have opinions and share them).

This confuses the nature of "having" and the nature of "sharing", and it also removes from the previous statement as well as adds in new details that the previous statement did not have. So, what can be seen here is none other than a poor attempt at changing your stance mid-argument, in addition to affirming the truth of one of history's most enduring quotes,

"Men lack the power
to keep their eyes at once upon what is the same and what is different." - Aristotle

As, you tried to hold an equivocation between having and saying. These are certainly not the same item, and should not be confused as such. I will prove this now by counter-example:

The United States of America is able to be having a population figure. However, the United States of America is not itself even capable of saying that it has a population figure.

Thusly, as seen by deductive proof by counter-example, having and saying have no business being equivocated as they have been in your part of the discussion. In addition, it is poor form to change your words mid-argument, as, this also makes your statements as a whole invalidly reasoned. This state of affairs reminds me of the saying,

"Take care of throwing stones up into the air, as they may fall back down and hit you."

Your issue is certainly a case of the aforementioned. Age-old wisdom still speaks.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

Your "logic" doesn't even make any sense. They don't actively SAY it. They write it on paper and put it on the signs indicating the population of an area, dividing up the population of a state for only the population of a city.
I could correct saying to reads to be 100% accurate instead of almost 100%.
It seems like ALL YOU'RE DOING is trying to say says is wrong or "age old wisdom" isn't wisdom at all. It's flat out nonsense.

[Spook]

Frankly, this post seems more like a tool to display your vocabulary rather than an argument. You have a solid point, yet you add a wall of unnecessary text. In short, this post could have been written:

There is an epidemic of stupidity on the internet. It is characterized by failures in spelling and grammar, non sequiturs galore, and the most atrociously unresearched and poorly-thought-out arguments one can imagine. So I must ask all who read this: what drives you to argue, motivates you to write a long, poorly-written post, yet motivates you not enough to research your claims and check your spelling and grammar and so avoid making a fool of yourself?

Further speaking, I can't understand how you traveled from internet stupidity to pulling the moon from its orbit. What I'm trying to get across is this- you criticize others for writing poorly-thought-out arguments with little value. While you; on the other hand, use flashy grammatical skill and random events that do no justice to your thesis. Speaking of flashy grammar, when you write you're appealing to an audience. Obviously, you're addressing those who you claim write these grammatically incorrect arguments. How do you expect your stupid audience to understand your smart grammar?


One must give thought to their argument beforehand.