North Korea

[TheSocialInspector]

I think it's a universal thought that North Korea's use of governing and confining the people into an area cut off from the outside world is a perfect example of corruption.

However, do you think there will be any changes to such a form of governing in the future? If so, when? And how?

[Castle of Glass]

i do not think that North Korea is corrupt. their problem(at least it was, not sure now a days though) is that they still think that they are in the cold war and/or WWII, so no outside visitors, no one can get out, and that the country has to be controlled by the military. but already with the new leader, changes have happened.

[Hypers]

I dont think they'll change anything. Its quite clear that they show no signs of changing, and changing would be too hard. Changing to capitalism would pose lots of problems, such as the poor and rich gap and corruption.

[TheBigUnit]

this Kim Jung un guy is very interesting and shady. This country could go anywhere with this guy, remeber he was educated in Switzerland so he wasn't nesessarily brought up in a real diff education than us

[Stronger]

While it may seem, but thats how they been since the cold war, its just what they prefer, that and theres no real chance they can change unless the Government does.

[Jean Poutine]

i do not think that North Korea is corrupt. their problem(at least it was, not sure now a days though) is that they still think that they are in the cold war and/or WWII, so no outside visitors, no one can get out, and that the country has to be controlled by the military. but already with the new leader, changes have happened.

People can get in NK. Just not Americans.

There are a few blogs around detailing visits.

[Human]

i think NK's dictatorship will continue for more than a couple of decades longer. i think they're slipping down a slope, once you've got to the point of NK's oppression there aren't many ways back up

[Castle of Glass]

People can get in NK. Just not Americans.

There are a few blogs around detailing visits.

oh. i new that americans can't, nor can south koreans. all i know is that UN and Red Cross people can get in. Have a family friend who's mom has been to NK 5 times so far.

[TheSocialInspector]

Amusingly, 0% of North Koreans can access to the Internet. To do so lands you in a labor camp(they are much worse than they sound, trust me) or gets you executed.

[Φρανκομβριτ]

People can get in NK. Just not Americans.

There are a few blogs around detailing visits.

Actually, even americans are permitted to travel to the DPRK. Everyone going to the DPRK needs a special visa, and usually will be required to go as part of an organised tour.

http://www.koryogroup.com/ - Tour company

[Boss...]

I honestly think the way the country will change is if the people uprise, and some how take over the governent. Even if they do they won't be in the best of shape, and will have a lot of work trying to fix the damage thats already done. It probably be best for the people if the governent works its self out, and let them live as humans should.

[TheSocialInspector]

I honestly think the way the country will change is if the people uprise, and some how take over the governent. Even if they do they won't be in the best of shape, and will have a lot of work trying to fix the damage thats already done. It probably be best for the people if the governent works its self out, and let them live as humans should.

I doubt that will happen. North Korea's government has succeeded in creating a community of people cut off from the outside world and has fooled them into the illusion that the government is their God. Kim Jong-Il and his father are adressed as Gods. Hell, North Korea even believes that Kim Jong-Il controls the weather.

North Korea's society will not be rebelling any time soon, at least that's what I believe, since they percieve their "leaders" as immortal and being raised in such a restrained environment has altered their chain of beliefs, thoughts and ways of living.

Oh, and one more thing. Since Kim Jong-Il is "immortal", North Korea's society thinks he has ressurected. That's what the government teaches them.

[Boss...]

I doubt that will happen. North Korea's government has succeeded in creating a community of people cut off from the outside world and has fooled them into the illusion that the government is their God. Kim Jong-Il and his father are adressed as Gods. Hell, North Korea even believes that Kim Jong-Il controls the weather.

North Korea's society will not be rebelling any time soon, at least that's what I believe, since they percieve their "leaders" as immortal and being raised in such a restrained environment has altered their chain of beliefs, thoughts and ways of living.

Oh, and one more thing. Since Kim Jong-Il is "immortal", North Korea's society thinks he has ressurected. That's what the government teaches them.

Let just take a step back in history for a minute. Germany during WW2, Hilter rulled Germany from 1933-1945 in that time he had to convince the country why the jews, and all inferior races, where going to be the death of the world. He even convinced the other European countries that he was "reclaiming" land that was rightfully German's. He had so many people fooled, until people realized what he wanted. When people started realizing, what he wanted they started to rebel and other countries started to get involved to stop him. Even his soilders had plans to kill him and over through the governent.

What I'm getting at here is that he thought he had his country and the rest of the world fooled. He was ended when some small countries started to rebel against his rule, and the rest of the world steped in and ended it.

So if even his own troops could see what he told them was wrong, the NK can see the same thing. The moment they start to rebel and word gets out, other countries will see it as an opritunity to step in, end the tyranny and take out an unstable threat.

[TheSocialInspector]

Let just take a step back in history for a minute. Germany during WW2, Hilter rulled Germany from 1933-1945 in that time he had to convince the country why the jews, and all inferior races, where going to be the death of the world. He even convinced the other European countries that he was "reclaiming" land that was rightfully German's. He had so many people fooled, until people realized what he wanted. When people started realizing, what he wanted they started to rebel and other countries started to get involved to stop him. Even his soilders had plans to kill him and over through the governent.

What I'm getting at here is that he thought he had his country and the rest of the world fooled. He was ended when some small countries started to rebel against his rule, and the rest of the world steped in and ended it.

So if even his own troops could see what he told them was wrong, the NK can see the same thing. The moment they start to rebel and word gets out, other countries will see it as an opritunity to step in, end the tyranny and take out an unstable threat.

Reasonable enough a point. However, I must note the differences.

1 : Hitler kept them fooled for about 30 to 40 years. Kim's family of governing has kept North Korea fooled for 2 generations and they're still moving on.

2 : It will be very difficult for North Koreans to realize the Kim family's true motives. They didn't just come across a guy who was like "Oh, hey, Jews are terribly and ugly, they're devils who needs to be killed". Kim did more than that. They created a community, one that they ensured would be cut off from the outside world. Maybe, at the start, when the nation was still forming, they might still have the chance of realizing what really happened. Then Kim Il-Sun dismissed that by creating a purge against his own Country, wiping out anybody against his political motives. Since then, he has managed to create a place where anybody who comes in cannot come out, and even if they do, it is to be ensured that they do not speak of anything to anyone inside there.

I doubt they will be able to realize when they are being diverted towards other sources of means from the moment they are born.

From the moment they were born in North Korea, the government screwed one idea into their brain and it was ensured it stuck in.

"The government is our God. We cannot question them."

And back to my point, I believe, North Korea's government succeeded.

[Taryn98]

Part of Communism is controlling the people. Limiting their free will and access to information is a great way to create a :society of sheep. Even though the country is very poor, the ruling party is quite wealthy and resistant to give that up. Unfortunately there isn't much driving force for other countries to help out their people or to change the government. Without another country coming in to remove the commies the people have no way to overthrow the government and always will be oppressed.

[CharlieFinley]

Part of Communism is controlling the people. You have no idea what you're talking about. Just because that is associated with perversions of communism does not mean that communism entails control of the people. Communism centers around the idea off community (same root, for the slow crowd) ownership of means of production and, in many cases, nonessential companies as well. to remove the commiesWhat? The problem isn't the communists. There are exactly zero true communists in power in North Korea. The idea of a classless society is an essential aspect of Communism, and there are sure some pretty rigidly divided classes in North Korea. The problem is the military, in particular the field grade officers and up, and the "civilian" leadership thereof.

Also, you just unironically used the word "commies." That doesn't demonstrate great things about your intelligence or willingness to discuss a topic without non sequitur.

[TheBigUnit]

Part of Communism is controlling the people. Limiting their free will and access to information is a great way to create a :society of sheep. Even though the country is very poor, the ruling party is quite wealthy and resistant to give that up. Unfortunately there isn't much driving force for other countries to help out their people or to change the government. Without another country coming in to remove the commies the people have no way to overthrow the government and always will be oppressed.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Just because that is associated with perversions of communism does not mean that communism entails control of the people. Communism centers around the idea off community (same root, for the slow crowd) ownership of means of production and, in many cases, nonessential companies as well. What? The problem isn't the communists. There are exactly zero true communists in power in North Korea. The idea of a classless society is an essential aspect of Communism, and there are sure some pretty rigidly divided classes in North Korea. The problem is the military, in particular the field grade officers and up, and the "civilian" leadership thereof.

Also, you just unironically used the word "commies." That doesn't demonstrate great things about your intelligence or willingness to discuss a topic without non sequitur.

Hey Cha...., it's really pathetic of you to call her out that badly, she hit verisimilitude dead on, its just that you need to replace the word "communists" with "north Koreans"

The military hierarchy is seen in every nation, look at petraus for example, the thing is though since this Kim jung un is a young guy the officers want to express their "influence" on his decision making, if you didn't know KJU sent some of these officers away (their fate is unknown)

[Syntax]

So if even his own troops could see what he told them was wrong, the NK can see the same thing. The moment they start to rebel and word gets out, other countries will see it as an opritunity to step in, end the tyranny and take out an unstable threat.

I don't see the hope for the North Korean people to rebel, not unless a philanthropist of North Korean general in the armed forces is concerned. I mean take a look at it. An armed force numbering 3 million with modified Soviet era equipment beats uprisings anytime.

It would take more than nationalism and the desire for unity to secure a victory.

Let's say, the people of North Korea revolted against the Dear Leader and then news of it struck the entire world. Countries help and they remove the Dear Leader from power and have finally established a united Korea. Now, take a look at the aftermath of World War II.

During the Allied occupation of Berlin in 1945, they split Berlin into sectors. The western side belonged to the Allies while the eastern side belonged to the Russians. Years later, the Cold War began. Compare this analogy to that of North Korea if ever it was liberated from communist rule.

Countries who have helped liberate North Korea will ask something in return and that is to carve out their own economical or political influences in a united Korea. This scenario is very much likely.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Just because that is associated with perversions of communism does not mean that communism entails control of the people. Communism centers around the idea off community (same root, for the slow crowd) ownership of means of production and, in many cases, nonessential companies as well.

Communism is good in theory yet bad in practice. There are so many variables that can affect such a political system up to point in which the baseline beliefs of one are removed and new beliefs take over. The same goes for capitalism.

Take a look at China. The Communists in China during the Chinese Civil War were had constant arguments in how to stop the Nationalists from destroying them.

Some leaders opted to fight like the Boshelviks in Russia, to which was the strategy of attrition. Town to town, city to city, province to province. Mao Tse-Tung looked at differently.

China was not Russia and it also had a large peasant population. Mao saw the peasants as the key to winning the war against the Nationalists. He called this in his book "Protracted People's War". The use of the country side as a room to maneuver and the peasants acting as his intelligence and hit and run forces.

In the end, there you have it. You have a political system that is changed from time to time because of the many variables surrounding it.

[CharlieFinley]

Hey Cha...., it's really pathetic of you to call her out that badly, she hit verisimilitude dead on, its just that you need to replace the word "communists" with "north Koreans"

The military hierarchy is seen in every nation, look at petraus for example, the thing is though since this Kim jung un is a young guy the officers want to express their "influence" on his decision making, if you didn't know KJU sent some of these officers away (their fate is unknown)

And the KKK is basically right, if you replace "black people" with "rapists and murderers." Whether her point would have been right or not had she used the term "north koreans" is irrelevant. What she SAID was "commies, and she was incorrect.

The problem is in fact the military command structure and its "civilian" (if in fact they are even ostensibly civilian) leadership.

What does Petraeus have to do with anything?

Also, please don't misunderstand. I am fully aware that communism does not work. I just take exception to factually incorrect remarks, regardless of which "side" makes them.

[TheBigUnit]

[QUOTE=CharlieFinley;2029750]And the KKK is basically right, if you replace "black people" with "rapists and murderers."QUOTE]

Correct!!:yeah:

[TheSocialInspector]

North Korea is not practicing Communism, it is practicing Dictatorship or to put it more specifically, Totalitarianism.

[LouBerry]

North Korea is not practicing Communism, it is practicing Dictatorship or to put it more specifically, Totalitarianism.

Exactly.

[CharlieFinley]

It could be a dictatorship with communist tendancies, but the dictatorship is the problem, not the communism.

[Haufen]

1 : Hitler kept them fooled for about 30 to 40 years.


1933 to 1945, 12 years.

You're right though, comparing Nazi-Germany and North-Korea is ridiculous.

Nazi-Germany was a rich, strong and scientifically and technologically advanced nation, immigration and emigration was possible, the people were happy and Hitler was seen as a national hero, not a God like in North-Korea. The Nazi-German government was totalitarian but nowhere near totalitarian as North-Korea's.

[Twilly F. Sniper]

A ticking time bomb. Simply said.

[TheBigUnit]

North Korea really is nothing guys, don't even worry about that country, they won't do anything

[PinkFloyd]

I know this sounds uneduacated but I think North Korea is gonna piss off a country like Russia, Iran, China, or even The United states or The UK. What im saying is they might get bombed in the next 50 years.

I do also think that there will eventually be a new leader and that leader will show them the world they live in and allow them to live their lives without corruption.

[TheSocialInspector]

I'm afraid to be the bearer of bad news, but it would be extremely difficult to bomb North Korea, considering the fact that the country has one of the most powerful nuclear facilities in the World.

USA managed to keep North Korea's nuclear facilities down for 3 years before North Korea decided to "hell with USA" and got their nuclear facilities back on.

Oh, and they started terrorizing South Korea ever since, for the hell of it.

[TheBigUnit]

The only country that's really at danger from NK is south korea,

[TheSocialInspector]

Yes, but if some Country decides to go and piss of North Korea, they're really stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea. You see, North Korea's power is attributed to the relationships with China and Russia - both of them being the top most powerful Countries in the world.

Oh, and North Korea has the fourth largest army in the world, last I heard.

[CharlieFinley]

Yes, but their logistics are shit, and a large army means ass-all in the face of superior logistics.

[TheBigUnit]

Yes, but their logistics are shit, and a large army means ass-all in the face of superior logistics.

Was about to post this,

they are not really allies, NK is more like a puppet state to china than anything else, russia really doesn't care for NK for they have nothing to gain as they did once as with china the only benefit china will get from NK is when china itself is at war and NK, (with the 4th largest army doesn't mean really anything when there are basically only 2 jobs availible there, farmer or army,) but they won't help NK if NK decides to wage war

their technology is so far behind they won't simply compete, SK is the only nation that should be afraid of NK, I don't think KJU is a complete idiot and do anything crazy but NK likes getting attention so no one will really bully or control them, so they kinda act like a rabid dog

[TheSocialInspector]

Nevertheless, we can all agree that nobody wants to immigrate there ... right?

I mean what kind of person would want to go and live there???

[Syntax]

Hardline communists, perhaps?

[TheBigUnit]

weightloss camp

[CharlieFinley]

HAH!

[Sugaree]

Oh, and they started terrorizing South Korea ever since, for the hell of it.

So you really think they JUST started terrorizing South Korea? That war has been going on for more than fifty years, it's nothing new.

[TheSocialInspector]

Sorry about that, yeah, the Korean War to put it, specifically.