Nativity scenes. Constitutional or not?

[Gaybaby94]

The holidays are upon us and that means many religious groups are putting up nativity scenes out in public. I, as a militant atheist, believe that putting up religious stuff in public is the equivalent of taking out one's penis and shoving it down other people's throats. But that's my opinion. Do you think nativity scenes are constitutional or not when they infringe on other people's rights to freedom of/from religion.

[Jupiter]

um. it's not freedom from religion. it's the freedom of religion. the christians can put up those decorations just like you can put up an "atheist and proud" sign in your yard if you wanted to. i don't see why it matters so much if they are proud of your own religion, as long as it isn't interfering with others. if they were out in public and making people walk through the holy manger or whatever then yes, that would be interfering. but honestly you are like the same of what you hate, but instead of religion, you just talk about how much you hate how much religion rules others lives.

[Sir Suomi]

Personally, coming from a christian, I personally do not mind. But I can see how people can be bothered by the nativity scene(Although I don't think showing the nativity scene is the equivalent of shoving your gentiles down someone's throat). It's when people make big deals about it when it's just something small, or if it's put near a church or a neighborhood that all is content with it, it makes me mad. Don't want to see the nativity scene, drive another route to your destination, clothes your eyes, or more importantly, just focus on the road/sidewalk in front of you! :D

[Noirtier]

People have the constitutional right to a freedom of religion and to express that freedom in whatever way they please. I believe that if the nativity scene is on their own property, they have every right to put it up if they want to. If it's on public property, I think it's a bit iffier (separation of church and state), but in the end nativity scenes are more put up simply as decorations anymore rather than something with true religious significance. You really don't see people putting them up because they want to honor God--you see them putting them up because they want to decorate their house.

[UnknownError]

Trust me, I'm pretty sure you will be celebrating Christmas this year even if you don't look at the religious side of it. That's what the holiday is about, get over it.

[Gigablue]

I don't think there is a problem with them. People should have the right to show a nativity scene if they want to, as long as they don't bother other people with it. I don't really see the point in doing it, and I would just ignore one if I saw it, but there's nothing unconstitutional about it.

[Gaybaby94]

Trust me, I'm pretty sure you will be celebrating Christmas this year even if you don't look at the religious side of it. That's what the holiday is about, get over it.

Actually I don't celebrate Christmas.

[workingatperfect]

... Putting a nativity scene in public is not shoving religion down your throat. Coming from someone who also isn't religious, get over it. Just ignore it. It is not infringing on your right to believe whatever you want. In fact, not letting them probably goes against their freedom of expression.

[Clawhammer]

Isn't that kind of infringing on their constitutional rights? By the same logic, gay flags should be banned. Or do you think you're superior?

[Jess]

I'm atheist, and I personally see nothing wrong with it. It's not really bothering anyone. I ignore them.

[Guillermo]

I'd just like to reiterate this point to you, GayBaby. Because I've seen you quote it like this in another post before; it's not freedom FROM religion it's freedom OF religion. The Federal government cannot make a law that favors or inhibits any religion. You're wording the Constitution to your own liking, it seems. Which worries me, because you're asking us if it's constitutional and it seems that you don't know what 'constitutional' means. And yes it most definitely is. Both on private and public property. And if someone complains about the Nativity scene being on public property, then one can simply stick a Santa Claus (because it's a secular figure) right beside it. And everything will be OK. It's been tried through many court cases. But look at it this way - since you don't celebrate Christmas, then you have the freedom to put up anti-Christmas and anti-religion signs all over your yard. God forbid that you don't get egged or teepeed, though. Or wait, in your case, god won't forbid. Well, never mind then.

[Mortal Coil]

Before I get into the meat of my answer,
shoving your gentiles down someone's throat
I'm sorry, what?
gentiles
Come again?
gentiles
http://www.thatdamnredhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/YouKeepUsingThatWord-300x258.jpeg

People have the constitutional right to a freedom of religion and to express that freedom in whatever way they please. I believe that if the nativity scene is on their own property, they have every right to put it up if they want to. If it's on public property, I think it's a bit iffier, but in the end nativity scenes are more put up simply as decorations anymore rather than something with true religious significance. You really don't see people putting them up because they want to honor God--you see them putting them up because they want to decorate their house.

Agreeing with Clint. Everyone has the freedom to have their own religion and express it. I'd find it somewhat iffy (on a personal level) if they were actively proselytizing along with the nativity scenes, but as it is, this is merely putting up a representation of a well-known story. By the same logic, you could claim that seeing a menorah through someone's window has the same effect because it's a symbol of the religious holiday and faith in view of the public. You may not like nativity scenes, and neither do I, but people who are putting them up are very well within their rights.

[FreeFall]

Mortal Coil, fucking love you I watched that movie today!

Before I begin my own comment; I accidentally broke a Jesus glass figurine at work today. I was putting up garland when sweet baby Jesus took himself a tumble. I half laughed, half cried because the damn thing cost $50 bucks, right out of my paycheck.

Ok. I'm atheist. I'm free to not look at the religious items. I'm free to not put them up. The religious are free to put them up. The religious are free to stare at them.

My life will continue on as it would have regardless is there's a Virgin Mary statue in the park or a recreation of a baptism. Personally, I have no tolerance for the atheists that burn, scream and curse at -gasp- religious relations!
Those types of "atheists" are no better than the christian folk waking me up Saturday mornings to "save my soul".
Whether you like it or not, this country was founded for freedom of expression and tolerance. So far, we suck at that. Like we really veered off course there, but getting riled up because there's religious associations with holidays does not help.

Who are we to suppress a person showing their love for the holidays with their religion? Why are we so damn special, because we ourselves are free from religion? They are not cramming it down our throats, it's not that hard to avert your eyes and look at a bird for a second or two until you're in the clear.
Saying we cannot pass without caressing Jesus is cramming their dicks down our throats. Them handing out bibles whether you want it or not, is forcing us. Them spraying us with holy water, is force. But them placing their items up, is not force. I get pissed when smokers smoke near me. I was standing there first, I'm allergic to cigarettes, they can close my airways up, I could potentially die. But smokers are free to smoke, I just have to find another place to breathe, and it's not that hard to do. Now, how are they similar? It's affecting you, but they've the right to do it and you can just as easily wander somewhere else, or look somewhere else. Pick your battles.

[Professional Russian]

Whether you like it or not its part of the 1st amendment freedom of speech and religion and all that fun shit. My main question is how do think those are equivilant to shoving a dick someone's throat in public? That makes no sense what so ever

[UnknownError]

Actually I don't celebrate Christmas.

Well laughs @ you because you don't get presents.

[Sugaree]

The holidays are upon us and that means many religious groups are putting up nativity scenes out in public. I, as a militant atheist, believe that putting up religious stuff in public is the equivalent of taking out one's penis and shoving it down other people's throats. But that's my opinion. Do you think nativity scenes are constitutional or not when they infringe on other people's rights to freedom of/from religion.

>militant atheist
>militant atheist
>MILITANT
>ATHEIST

Why are you fucking trying.

[LouBerry]

If a home, church, business, etc. is not funded by Federal money, then they can not be told they can not have the sense. That is constitutional. Separation of church and state. I am a very strong faithed Christian and I will have one in my yard in a few days, that being said, I am also very political. If something like a school or a bank puts one up, it is illegal. Unless it is done by a class or club with consent of all class or club members.

[Jules97]

Of course it is constitutional. To each their own. Why are some people so mad all the time???

[Professional Russian]

Of course it is constitutional. To each their own. Why are some people so mad all the time???

Because they are militant atheists. They hate religion with a passion.

[Penteract]

Look, if someone wants to demonstrate their religious belief by exposing items related to the religion to the public is not at all like shoving a penis down someone's throat. This is freedom of expression, it's like; you being gay and others telling you to not act gay or be gay because it insults them or what not. If they were to tell you this, do you really think you would at all change your way of behaving/thinking? Then why should religious people do the same, because it bothers you? Lolno. It's not illegal, so it'll remain like that. As long as anything being expressed by someone isn't derogative or insulting to any type of group, then they have their full right to remain doing what they like.

[Cicero]

I don't mean to be rude, but I'm kinda tired of your threads like this. Everything you say is extremely irrational, it's not even funny. Putting up a nativity scene is not like a dick shoved down your throat (or however you said it). If the Christian wants to make his or her belief public, then what's to worry? It's one thing if a Christian is walking around with a sign saying "Non Christians go to hell" but it's a completely different if they put up a nativity scene on THEIR OWN PROPERTY. Thank God we don't have someone like you in office because they would probably make this country communist. As Eric said, it's freedom of religion not from. You you want to move to a place where Christians don't have freedom, feel free to move to china or the middle east. If I were athiest all I would think is "ok that's a nativity scene" and of they did a bad job I would think "wow that looks horrible" of they did a good job (setting it up) I would think "wow they took a lot of time to work on that good for them". You obviously have a vendetta against anything and everything rational. And I already know your not gonna answer Antibes other posts UNLESS they Agree with your own.

[Emerald Dream]

Nativity scenes aren't usually in the middle of the road. If it bothers you that much, don't look in that direction when you drive/ride by.

If someone grabs you and chains you to the manger, then it's a different story. That's forced.

[Castle of Glass]

well i am from finland and we are taught the christian story of chrismas, but more importantly we are taught a better story of chrismas, how santa claus came to be. i have nothing against the nativity scene, as long as it is indoors in a private property, church, or religious school, but if it is in a public space, then it is wrong. i grew up with it, as my grandmother, grandfather this year, always placed it on the same table, but it was because we were christian.

[Sir Suomi]

Before I get into the meat of my answer,

I'm sorry, what?

Come again?

image (http://www.thatdamnredhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/YouKeepUsingThatWord-300x258.jpeg)






I made a fucking typo -_-

[HaydenM]

Although I disagree with some points made (from both sides). To defend the atheist view, if someone were to place something in the same place that nativity scenes are seen that was antichristianity in a bold way there would be a whole lot of flak taken by that, but for a Christian symbol (that goes completely against the belief system of an atheist) it is considered completely okay.

[Emerald Dream]

Although I disagree with some points made (from both sides). To defend the atheist view, if someone were to place something in the same place that nativity scenes are seen that was antichristianity in a bold way there would be a whole lot of flak taken by that, but for a Christian symbol (that goes completely against the belief system of an atheist) it is considered completely okay.

I thought that an atheist didn't believe in religion whatsoever, whether it was Christian or anti-Christian. I don't see your point. Atheists would be pissed off either way.

[Sugaree]

I thought that an atheist didn't believe in religion whatsoever, whether it was Christian or anti-Christian. I don't see your point. Atheists would be pissed off either way.

There's a double standard for atheists in America. If it's Christian or Christian related, it's wrong; but if it's Jewish, Muslim, or any religion other than Christianity, it's "culturally diverse".

[Cicero]

Although I disagree with some points made (from both sides). To defend the atheist view, if someone were to place something in the same place that nativity scenes are seen that was antichristianity in a bold way there would be a whole lot of flak taken by that, but for a Christian symbol (that goes completely against the belief system of an atheist) it is considered completely okay.

Well if you were to have say, an upside down cross hanging on your door. Most every single Christian would take offense to that. If the city got enough complaints, you could be asked to remove that from your door. But a nativity scene is pretty much a small little thing. Sure it might be a little offensive, but its really nothing like an upside down cross. The nativity scene does not show hate, whereas the upside down cross would show hate. Its like if you were to have a Nazi flag on your house vs a German flag. One shows hate, whereas the other shows pride in ones country. I look at a Atheists viewpoint and all I would think is "Ok, there is a nativity scene in someones yard. Big woopty doo". Its pretty pathetic how people take offense to nativity scenes. It's really like taking offense to a Buddha statue or Hindu statue. The only 'antichristian' religion there would be is the Satanic religion, Satanists would take major offense to that nativity scene. But culturally speaking, they are far from being accepted and probably will never be accepted. Cause not to many people would want to go to 'Hell' and worship Satan. Most people strive to do good, and want to be like a Godly or good person, people would rather do the good work of God, Budha, Allah, etc than do the work of Satan. Dakota Sadento is completely right about the double standard. More people get offended by the Christian cross more than they do with the Star of David or a statue of Buddha. Like with schools, schools teach the viewpoint of only the Atheist. They barely ever share the viewpoint of the Christian. Teachers are able to share their viewpoint if they're Atheist, but if they're Christian they have to keep their mouths shut. Why can't the two live in harmony? Why can't the viewpoint of both the Atheist and Christian be shared together? It's both peoples fault, the Christians like to sometimes slam religion in the faces of Atheists, while the Atheists like to remove anything and everything that has remotely anything to do with Christianity. And Gaybaby94, you really need to stop being so damn closed minded and stop hating on Christians. Not all Christians are the people who carry those signs of hating other groups. There are tons of accepting Christians. Your pretty much grouping every single Christian into one group. It's like grouping everything single German to be Nazi's or grouping every Single homosexual to be the high voiced fashion lovers. There are tons of straight guys who like fashion and who have high voices. There are tons of homosexuals who like to lift weights and eat healthy. Everyone is an individual, not one Christian is the same, just as not one homosexual is the same, just like not one German/English/Indian/Islamic/Italian/America/etc. is the same.

[CharlieHorse]

Yes there was a supreme court case about this. And yes, the city is allowed to spend money on them, and put them up for display.
I'm an atheist, but I don't care, let people do what they want to.

[CharlieFinley]

Personally, coming from a christian, I personally do not mind. But I can see how people can be bothered by the nativity scene(Although I don't think showing the nativity scene is the equivalent of shoving your gentiles down someone's throat).

Actually, that's exactly what it is. :D

Before I get into the meat of my answer,

I'm sorry, what?

Come again?

image (http://www.thatdamnredhead.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/YouKeepUsingThatWord-300x258.jpeg)



I found it hilarious because what people putting up nativity scenes are doing is, in fact, shoving the fact that they are gentiles down the throats of others. She was so wrong that she was almost right.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

[FreeFall]

Yes there was a supreme court case about this. And yes, the city is allowed to spend money on them, and put them up for display.
I'm an atheist, but I don't care, let people do what they want to.
Exactly. Unless it's disturbing your daily life so severly and causing you trauma, what fuss is needed?

[Sugaree]

Exactly. Unless it's disturbing your daily life so severly and causing you trauma, what fuss is needed?

He's a militant atheist. Anything like this rustles his jimmies and gives him unimaginable butthurt.

[DerBear]

I don't know if it is constitutional or not.

However in a MODERN society where multiple religions are accepted. I don't think schools or places like schools (unless specific schools or organisations such as Christan) should they do an nativity play. Yes it is a meaning of Christmas, but not everyone celebrates Christmas with the birth of Jesus Christ.

I don't really have a problem with it. I just believe that we need to include all religions.

[Sugaree]

I love how the OP has yet to respond to any of us. Really, I think we've wasted our time on this one.

[Cicero]

I love how the OP has yet to respond to any of us. Really, I think we've wasted our time on this one.

He never answers anything that opposes his views. Just look at all his other threads. The only times that he has responded is when the posts agree with his own viewpoints. Thats why I said I knew he wouldn't respond to any of our posts.

[Danny_boi 16]

Yes it is constitutional. Everyone on this earth is entitled to there freedom. A government has not right to destroy that freedom. A person can say what they want, believe what they want, print what they want, and assemble for any reason without the fear of their government.

[CharlieFinley]

Yes it is constitutional. Everyone on this earth is entitled to there freedom. A government has not right to destroy that freedom. A person can say what they want, believe what they want, print what they want, and assemble for any reason without the fear of their government.

That's untrue.

[Jupiter]

Yes it is constitutional. Everyone on this earth is entitled to there freedom. A government has not right to destroy that freedom. A person can say what they want, believe what they want, print what they want, and assemble for any reason without the fear of their government.

so they "say."

except for "i'm going to kill the president"

print top secret information like wiki leaks, or assemble inside someone's house. though, i don't really know about the believe thing.

[Sugaree]

Yes it is constitutional. Everyone on this earth is entitled to there freedom. A government has not right to destroy that freedom. A person can say what they want, believe what they want, print what they want, and assemble for any reason without the fear of their government.

This is what most Americans believe.

[Professional Russian]

I love how the OP has yet to respond to any of us. Really, I think we've wasted our time on this one.

He never answers anything that opposes his views. Just look at all his other threads. The only times that he has responded is when the posts agree with his own viewpoints. Thats why I said I knew he wouldn't respond to any of our posts.

true tory. anything said against what he said he never cares about. hes more closed minded than me

[Danny_boi 16]

This is what most Americans believe.

This is what America was like.

[Coolboi]

welcome to the United States of America the biggest mix race in the world !!!
hey Santa Claus ain't comming to your house ! but being a non racist to the worlds religion
an it's cool to learn all about everyone's religion .so I hope Santa clause stops at your house. just to meet someone from anywhere is so cool ! put up some lites an get in to it .
HO HO HO merry Christmas to you an everybody love all people for who they are not by there believes in religion we are all cool may YOUR GOD BLESS YOU or who you believe in . put your lites or signs or whatever u like an be happy luv all peace in the world .

[Error 404]

"Christmas is the time of year people try to be nice to others, while in all other times they don't really give a f*ck about other people"

Well, it was something similar to that, but i can't remember actual words, so..
Anyway IMO, typical overreaction to nothing.

"Public"...internet can be kind of "public" too..there are so many people that see what you say/do/show, etc.And you can do w/e you like (as long you're not breaking the rules that is).

Lets for a second analyze your username & signature (this is meant to the OP ofc.) "Gaybaby94" ...mhm, i don't care that you're gay.And personally, stuff like that in username/signature (same goes for religion) i find...well, annoying, cause, i don't know you, so why the *beep* i should know or even care if you're gay, if you believe in god, or if you're a frakkin' alien?

But you see, it's your choice what you put there, it's your profile, your username/signature, and so on...

Same can be used for this topic...so as far I'm concerned, you should follow your own advice in signature, if you have a problem...STFU!

[Sugaree]

This is what America was like.

You mean there was a time when citizens weren't afraid of government interference on their civil liberties? No way!

welcome to the United States of America the biggest mix race in the world !!!
hey Santa Claus ain't comming to your house ! but being a non racist to the worlds religion
an it's cool to learn all about everyone's religion .so I hope Santa clause stops at your house. just to meet someone from anywhere is so cool ! put up some lites an get in to it .
HO HO HO merry Christmas to you an everybody love all people for who they are not by there believes in religion we are all cool may YOUR GOD BLESS YOU or who you believe in . put your lites or signs or whatever u like an be happy luv all peace in the world .

Whatever you're smoking, I want some.

[Haufen]

I, as a militant atheist, believe that putting up religious stuff in public is the equivalent of taking out one's penis and shoving it down other people's throats.

I, as a militant conservative, believe that putting up rainbow flags and LGBT banners in public is the equivalent of taking out one's penis and shoving it down other people's throats.

See how the tables were turned? What makes your opinion any better? I'm not actually a conservative by the way.

(It's funny because I've actually seen footage of gay pride parades where they have sex in the public street at day and doing rancid shit like pissing over eachother).

[Jean Poutine]

The holidays are upon us and that means many religious groups are putting up nativity scenes out in public. I, as a militant atheist, believe that putting up religious stuff in public is the equivalent of taking out one's penis and shoving it down other people's throats. But that's my opinion. Do you think nativity scenes are constitutional or not when they infringe on other people's rights to freedom of/from religion.

The Bill of Rights applies only to the government in its relations with the people, meaning that it doesn't apply to the relations between people. So unless the nativity scenes are somehow products of the government then constitution doesn't apply.

So it can't be constitutional

[TheWaterPrince]

Sorry if I'm blunt about this but if nativity scenes aren't constitutional then neither are xmas trees, atheist and proud signs, Star of David anything, anything with a cross on it, etc. So I believe that you should be able to put out whatever you want. Also, in the spirit of the holidays MERRY CHRISTMAS!!