Muslims

[ayelove100]

Theres a lot of answer already so lets just close it down or something.

[Human]

I'm fine with Islam...

[ayelove100]

Ok so i converted to Islam and so did my family. I was just wondering because before i converted many people were racist about the religion and the people in it are really chill. What do you guys think about the religion and here is a website that talks about Islam. So before anybody replies saying anything unnecessary just like read about it http://www.beconvinced.com/archive/en/main.php?action=showcat&catid=05. :)

PS: If you guys don't have anything nice to say please don't reply. If you guys are asking questions or debating go ahead. :)

Also im just asking because I don't wear hijab and so people dont know im muslim. My mom does though but its her choice. I was on the bus and one of my friends was like all muslims are terrorist and so i got really pissed because three other people agreed and so i told them "so imma terrorist" and they were like "What?!" and so i told them i converted to islam and they all now ae fine with the religion after i explained it to them. Some of them even came to the mosque with me which they though was kinda cool, because its not like church. They make a speech and pray but then we hang out and have lots of fun. We dont always attend the speach its kinda optional.

[FreeFall]

im just asking because I don't wear hijab and so people dont know im muslim.
I don't wear a sign saying " Hey, lookit me I'm atheist!" Does it matter if people know or not? Your religion is your religion, some Christians wear crosses and some don't. Some Jewish people wear those braids, some don't. Some muslims wear hijabs and burqas and some don't.


Are you here for a debate or are you here for some confirmation that you're a good Muslim? And don't tell me to be silent if I have nothing nice to say, you don't dictate that.

Once upon a time Christians were filthy evil things that everyone hated, then Christians lead crusades to get rid of other evil filthy things they hated. Catholics were evil things that lead crusades, they've also been subjected to intense hatred, look at some of their martyr-saints. The Jewish, I'm not sure if they've ever really lead mass revolts against other religions or beliefs but they've sure been killed and used as scapegoats a whole bunch. Currently, we atheists are the heathens of the world, we even beat the Muslims in American scorn.

Every belief and faith has their evil, insane people, and every belief and faith has been pushed around and killed by others. Just follow what you believe and be a good person and that's all you've got to do really.

Do I think Muslims are evil or bad? No, I feel the same about them as I do any other religion. But I sure do get a scare when someone in a burqa pops out of nowhere, just because I'm not used to not seeing someone's face and it takes me by surprise.

[ayelove100]

I don't wear a sign saying " Hey, lookit me I'm atheist!" Does it matter if people know or not? Your religion is your religion, some Christians wear crosses and some don't. Some Jewish people wear those braids, some don't. Some muslims wear hijabs and burqas and some don't.


Are you here for a debate or are you here for some confirmation that you're a good Muslim? And don't tell me to be silent if I have nothing nice to say, you don't dictate that.

Once upon a time Christians were filthy evil things that everyone hated, then Christians lead crusades to get rid of other evil filthy things they hated. Catholics were evil things that lead crusades, they've also been subjected to intense hatred, look at some of their martyr-saints. The Jewish, I'm not sure if they've ever really lead mass revolts against other religions or beliefs but they've sure been killed and used as scapegoats a whole bunch. Currently, we atheists are the heathens of the world, we even beat the Muslims in American scorn.

Every belief and faith has their evil, insane people, and every belief and faith has been pushed around and killed by others. Just follow what you believe and be a good person and that's all you've got to do really.

Do I think Muslims are evil or bad? No, I feel the same about them as I do any other religion. But I sure do get a scare when someone in a burqa pops out of nowhere, just because I'm not used to not seeing someone's face and it takes me by surprise.

Oh ok. I was just writing this to see what people thougt, and i mean't like i dont mind debating. I just am giving an example when I said about the buss thing. Anyway i wasn't going to tell u to be silent because i get what you mean.

[TigerBoy]

I couldn't care less what religion someone is. I judge people by their actions and how much good and harm they do with their lives.

If your religion believes in cooperating and showing respect towards other religions and those that have no faith, then that sounds fine to me. As soon as a religion begins imposing itself on the rest of society is when it becomes a problem, be it evangelising and converting or attempting to dictate morality to those outside their faith.

[ayelove100]

I couldn't care less what religion someone is. I judge people by their actions and how much good and harm they do with their lives.

If your religion believes in cooperating and showing respect towards other religions and those that have no faith, then that sounds fine to me. As soon as a religion begins imposing itself on the rest of society is when it becomes a problem, be it evangelising and converting or attempting to dictate morality to those outside their faith.

:) Thats good to hear. I also judge people by the way they act, no by their looks clothing..etc. I know what u mean. Thanks for the reply

[Ryhanna]

It doesn't matter to me what you believe in, or if you believe in anything at all. Religion is a personal decision, so your belief is entirely up to you.

[ayelove100]

It doesn't matter to me what you believe in, or if you believe in anything at all. Religion is a personal decision, so your belief is entirely up to you.

yeah thanks for reply.:)

[TheBigUnit]

I really don't mind islam as I do have a lot of muslim friends
But areny females not allowed to enter mosques?
Also muslims aren't crazy, a lot arabs are, most are uneducated and very stubborn,
Kind of like rednecks here, isn't the reason why muslims wear burqas and hijabs more bc of traditional culture reasons rather than islam itself?

[EastBound]

Ok so i converted to Islam and so did my family. I was just wondering because before i converted many people were racist about the religion and the people in it are really chill. What do you guys think about the religion and here is a website that talks about Islam. So before anybody replies saying anything unnecessary just like read about it http://www.beconvinced.com/archive/en/main.php?action=showcat&catid=05. :)

PS: If you guys don't have anything nice to say please don't reply. If you guys are asking questions or debating go ahead. :)

Asalaaam Walakium. Alhamdulillah on your conversion. I converted to Islaam 3 1/2 years ago. The only Muslim in my family. Thankfully, my family was tolerant about the whole situation.

[EastBound]

Also im just asking because I don't wear hijab and so people dont know im muslim.
I think it's much more important things to worry about in our deen other than if a sister is wearing Hijab. I've seen way too many Brothers & Sisters alike try to talk a girl into wearing a Hijab right after taking shahadah rather than teaching the sister how to pray.
Regardless if you're a Hijabi or not it won't make you any less of a Muslim.
I know a bunch of Sisters who wear Hijab who never pray or read Qu'ran.
Just like I know a bunch of Sisters who don't wear Hijab who pray & read Qu'ran daily. We as a whole just need to focus less on if a sister is wearing an hijab or not.


It doesn't matter to me what you believe in, or if you believe in anything at all. Religion is a personal decision, so your belief is entirely up to you.
Exactly.
I really don't mind islam as I do have a lot of muslim friends
But areny females not allowed to enter mosques?

isn't the reason why muslims wear burqas and hijabs more bc of traditional culture reasons rather than islam itself?

1) They can. Not if they are on their period

2) Yes. More Traditional & Hadith than anything.

[ayelove100]

Asalaaam Walakium. Alhamdulillah on your conversion. I converted to Islaam 3 1/2 years ago. The only Muslim in my family. Thankfully, my family was tolerant about the whole situation.

aleykum el salam, :) acually my whole family converted. Al hamd ly allah. :)

[ayelove100]

I think it's much more important things to worry about in our deen other than if a sister is wearing Hijab. I've seen way too many Brothers & Sisters alike try to talk a girl into wearing a Hijab right after taking shahadah rather than teaching the sister how to pray.
Regardless if you're a Hijabi or not it won't make you any less of a Muslim.
I know a bunch of Sisters who wear Hijab who never pray or read Qu'ran.
Just like I know a bunch of Sisters who don't wear Hijab who pray & read Qu'ran daily. We as a whole just need to focus less on if a sister is wearing an hijab or not.



Exactly.


1) They can. Not if they are on their period

2) Yes. More Traditional & Hadith than anything.

I agee totally. Peace upon you. Its really nice to meet you. I know many people like that and girls who wear hijab but do very bad things. :)

[Elysium]

One of my closest friends is Muslim. I have no problem with the religion. We studied it in history this year, and I think it's a great religion. I wish I knew more about it.

[EastBound]

aleykum el salam, :) acually my whole family converted. Al hamd ly allah. :)

Did they convert after you? Or did you all convert together? I've met a lot of Muslims from Cali.

[ayelove100]

I really don't mind islam as I do have a lot of muslim friends
But areny females not allowed to enter mosques?
Also muslims aren't crazy, a lot arabs are, most are uneducated and very stubborn,
Kind of like rednecks here, isn't the reason why muslims wear burqas and hijabs more bc of traditional culture reasons rather than islam itself?

ohh no females are allowed to go into mosques. No we wear burqas and hijabs kind of in cultue but mostly religion. We wear hijabs to cover our hair beauty that should only be seen m=by husband. And burqas are worn by very religious people who want to hide all their beauty away from men. The people that you can wear whatever you want in front of is all female (beause there are no les in islam and all women can wear whatever they want in front of others.) and in front of dad, brother, father-in-law, and husband. :)

One of my closest friends is Muslim. I have no problem with the religion. We studied it in history this year, and I think it's a great religion. I wish I knew more about it.

:) Thats really great that u have a friend who is muslim.! If u wanna learn more then just ask ur friend or look at the website that i posted :)

Don't double post. ~Masked

[TheBigUnit]

true but werent burquas used by arabs before the founding of islam?

why did u guys convert and what were u b4 and also what race are you? sorry if it sounds a bit blatant

[WickedWeekend]

I don't mind people of the Islam religion. If we were friends, I wouldn't dare to bring up religion though. I'm Christian lol. Good for you that you converted to a religion that seems right for you.

[Enthusiast]

I would say most ppl would be chill with Muslims, but there are a select few who just consider them as terrorists. I don't so no offense

[ayelove100]

true but werent burquas used by arabs before the founding of islam?

why did u guys convert and what were u b4 and also what race are you? sorry if it sounds a bit blatant

haha :) I am ameican still. Its just i am now a muslim. I am white, and italian. :) Its ok to ask questions also people in arab countries wear burqas sometimes to cover up from the hot temp that can get skin cancer etc, but its mostly for religion these days.

I don't mind people of the Islam religion. If we were friends, I wouldn't dare to bring up religion though. I'm Christian lol. Good for you that you converted to a religion that seems right for you.

Thank u.

Please dont double post. ~Masked

[WWFDCorrie]

One of my best friends practices Islam. I think its a great religion, unfortunately just like every religion, you have people who use it to cause violence, which brings the bigotry. But as far as i'm concerned every religion is great. =)

[Twilly F. Sniper]

I'm fine with Islam...

Same here.

I dont give a care whether your Muslim, Atheist, Christian, etc. I dont care about anything, I dont profile people by their race, sexuality, religion, etc.

[ayelove100]

I would say most ppl would be chill with Muslims, but there are a select few who just consider them as terrorists. I don't so no offense

u dont what??

One of my best friends practices Islam. I think its a great religion, unfortunately just like every religion, you have people who use it to cause violence, which brings the bigotry. But as far as i'm concerned every religion is great. =)

Thanks! :) yeah in every county and religion and family there is always a bad person that sets a bad example

Please don't double post. Use the multi-quote button or edit your previous post instead. -Gigablue

[EastBound]

true but werent burquas used by arabs before the founding of islam?

why did u guys convert and what were u b4 and also what race are you? sorry if it sounds a bit blatant

Burquas and Hijabs were used by other religions that came way before Islam, you are correct :)

Long story. But I was raised southern baptist. I'm African-American.

[Jess]

I'm okay with moderate Muslims but I hate the extremists (of any religion actually).

[ayelove100]

I'm okay with moderate Muslims but I hate the extremists (of any religion actually).

yeah i noticed that u dont like real religious ppl :what:

[PinkFloyd]

I have zero problems with the muslim people. I dont see why anybody does. Like EVERY other religion, it has a group of people that do horrible things. I only have a problem with the group that flew planes into the world trade center and 11 years later killed 3 americans in Libya. But again thats a very small group. But again. for the most part, the Islamic religion is a peaceful, friendly, and innocent group just like everyone else.

[Jess]

yeah i noticed that u dont like real religious ppl :what:

Yeah "real" religious people as in Bible thumpers and extremists. As long as you ('you' in general) don't go shoving your beliefs on others....

[Danny_boi 16]

I love all religions, by that I mean love studying them and learning about them. Islam is
by far one of the most interesting religions I've studied I love it! And people that don't
need to grow a pair.

I wish you and your family well, in this new path to understand the world.

[ayelove100]

I love all religions, by that I mean love studying them and learning about them. Islam is
by far one of the most interesting religions I've studied I love it! And people that don't
need to grow a pair.

I wish you and your family well, in this new path to understand the world.

That is sooo great :)

[Magus]

I am an Ex-Muslim, and I am proud of that decision.

[EastBound]

zoroastrian women wore Hijabs. And that religion was before Islaam.

[Magus]

zoroastrian women wore Hijabs. And that religion was before Islaam.I have removed the question long before you posted your answer.

But you know, Islam is a conglomerate of other pagan religions from the region.

[EastBound]

I have removed the question long before you posted your answer.

But you know, Islam is a conglomerate of other pagan religions from the region.

Yeah, I seen you edited your post a minute before I posted my reply.

Would you expect it not to be?

[ayelove100]

I am an Ex-Muslim, and I am proud of that decision.

ok its ur choice. if leaving islam makes u happy so be it :) allah yijazyky 5eyr

PS; sorry about what i wote befoore

I am an Ex-Muslim, and I am proud of that decision.

i hate liars like u that say that just to make people have bad thought about islam, but guuess what, i was an ex-christian and now imma muslim. so if u were a muslim and now r an ex one (which is such a freakin lie) then u werent a strong one! peace upon u

[EastBound]

no u arent u piece of sht, dont play urself btch..............shut the fk up and dont post here sht bag!!!!!!!!!!

astaghfirullah, astaghfirullah.

Chill out good sister. No need to act that way towards somebody who left islam.
She said Nothing bad about Islam what so ever.
All she said was she is an ex-muslim and proud of it.
If leaving islam made her life better then let's be happy for her. No need to be hostile whatsoever. I'm good friends with a couple of people who left Islaam. At the end of the day, It's their personal choice. I see them as no less of a person :)

- How do you know this person is lying about once being a Muslim?

[ayelove100]

astaghfirullah, astaghfirullah.

Chill out good sister. No need to act that way towards somebody who left islam.
She said Nothing bad about Islam what so ever.
All she said was she is an ex-muslim and proud of it.
If leaving islam made her life better then let's be happy for her. No need to be hostile whatsoever. I'm good friends with a couple of people who left Islaam. At the end of the day, It's their personal choice. I see them as no less of a person :)

- How do you know this person is lying about once being a Muslim?

yeah i agree but im sure hes lying just to make islam look bad. Sorry though for the language its just me and my bro read this and we got soo mad because they are trying to make the religion look bad. But thank u :) again sorry fo language

[Jess]

yeah i agree but im sure hes lying just to make islam look bad. Sorry though for the language its just me and my bro read this and we got soo mad because they are trying to make the religion look bad. But thank u :) again sorry fo language

How do you know he's lying? Don't make assumptions. Let people make their own choices and paths.

[ayelove100]

How do you know he's lying? Don't make assumptions. Let people make their own choices and paths.

ok yeah sorry if i could delete that i would.

[EastBound]

yeah i agree but im sure hes lying just to make islam look bad. Sorry though for the language its just me and my bro read this and we got soo mad because they are trying to
make the religion look bad. But thank u :) again sorry fo language

It's all good.

Personally, I don't think they are lying about once being Muslim. What would they have to gain about saying such? And to give credit to the person, they didn't say anything negative (atleast in my eyes) About our Deen. They just stated their opinion. :)
It's all good, no need to be sorry good sister.
JazakAllah Khair :D

[Jess]

ok yeah sorry if i could delete that i would.

Just edit it out :)

[ayelove100]

It's all good.

Personally, I don't think they are lying about once being Muslim. What would they have to gain about saying such? And to give credit to the person, they didn't say anything negative (atleast in my eyes) About our Deen. They just stated their opinion. :)
It's all good, no need to be sorry good sister.
JazakAllah Khair :D
you are a very good person with a kind heart, again im 15 so kinda immature and dont think before i act. :)

Just edit it out :)

ohh how???? i have to make adjustments to many things i write :) ohhh nnvm i just click edit :) thnx

Please use "multi-quote" instead of double posting. ~Bath

[Magus]

you are a very good person with a kind heart, again im 15 so kinda immature and dont think before i act. :)
Young age isn't an excuse to act immaturely.

And I don't need to make Islam look bad, it is enough that people of the religion themselves made the religion look bad.

Oh, and I was an ardent Muslim, before I left it. And I know it pretty fairly, compared to a newly convert.

[ayelove100]

Young age isn't an excuse to act immaturely.

And I don't need to make Islam look bad, it is enough that people of the religion themselves made the religion look bad.

Oh, and I was an ardent Muslim, before I left it.

This is why i don't like u, people of islam did nothiing to make it look bad. Onlly a group of poeple did but theres always "that" group of people in EVERY religion. i also dont know what ardent mean so like, yeah. And islam is a great religion

[Magus]

This is why i don't like u, people of islam did nothiing to make it look bad. Onlly a group of poeple did but theres always "that" group of people in EVERY religion. i also dont know what ardent mean so like, yeah. And islam is a great religion

People of Islam did a lot of things to make it look bad, whether you want to exclude or include those "groups".

You don't know what ardent means? Then I suggest you pick a dictionary once in a while.

And Odinism is a great religion.

[ayelove100]

People of Islam did a lot of things to make it look bad, whether you want to exclude or include those "groups".

You don't know what ardent means? Then I suggest you pick a dictionary once in a while.

And Odinism is a great religion.

Good for you that you found a great religion. :) i did too and its islam. I will look it up later. Anyway, people aen't angels i know that some poeple in islam did major things but there is shia and sunni. I am sunni because i dont agree with shia.

[Magus]

Good for you that you found a great religion. :) i did too and its islam. I will look it up later. Anyway, people aen't angels i know that some poeple in islam did major things but there is shia and sunni. I am sunni because i dont agree with shia. but anyway i am glad for u and respect u but pplease dot disrespect islam.

I didn't disrespect Islam. You got that all wrong, lol.

[EastBound]

Good for you that you found a great religion. :) i did too and its islam. I will look it up later. Anyway, people aen't angels i know that some poeple in islam did major things but there is shia and sunni. I am sunni because i dont agree with shia. but anyway i am glad for u and respect u but pplease dot disrespect islam.
When I first converted I identified with Sunni. Nowadays, I don't affiliate myself with any sect.

I didn't disrespect Islam. You got that all wrong, lol.

You didn't ^_^)

[ayelove100]

Yeah, I seen you edited your post a minute before I posted my reply.

Would you expect it not to be?

hey r u banned?????and y?>?/??

[Magus]

hey r u banned?????and y?>?/??

Yes, he is banned, because he disregarded the rules of the forum.

[ayelove100]

Yes, he is banned, because he disregarded the rules of the forum.

What did he do??????

[Jess]

Only the staff members know but don't ask them why he was banned because they will not say why.

[ayelove100]

Only the staff members know but don't ask them why he was banned because they will not say why.

ohh wow, i was tryna send him a message but it wont let me.

[sammy1996]

just a question, but isn't it like, VERY, bad if you convert to islam and then go back? there have been cases of "honor killings" because a convert to islam has gone back to their old religion.

[Sir Suomi]

I see no problem with Muslims. I don't agree with everything they teach, but I can respect the religion.

[whoisme]

just a question, but isn't it like, VERY, bad if you convert to islam and then go back? there have been cases of "honor killings" because a convert to islam has gone back to their old religion.

This are rare incidents by ignorant persons only- mostly cultural (http://whatiftheyweremuslim.com/2012/10/23/pakistan-christian-couple-who-converted-to-islam-killed-by-family-in-honour-killing/).

[ahmedi]

I was born muslim because my dad is muslim (mom not). But i haven't seen my dad since I was a little kid and never got any religious education and I live in mostly christian country. So I guess I'm muslim in theory but not in practice if you know what I mean.

[Jean Poutine]

All religion is toxic, Islam especially so. It considers itself as a fully fledged State and there are so many things wrong with this that I cannot surmise why anyone would willingly convert to that religion, simply for that reason.

I've read about the implementation of Shari'a law in countries all over the world. Even in a moderate country like Tunisia, courts barred a woman inheriting from her mother simply because she married a non-Muslim French national. Or in Egypt, a court intervened on the side of a husband wanting to keep his wife from going on a business trip for no other reason than being a control freak. They routinely break mixed religious unions for the only reason that one member is not a Muslim. Islam integrates itself in government and the judiciary and it is its avowed goal to do so.

Islam is a parasite on human governance. Read the Islamist declaration of human rights. Its.a fucking joke. I'd gladly see its ass kicked out of the human psyche first, followed by every other religion.

[TheBigUnit]

Its also tradition in the middleeast, even before islam the men were the "alpha"-males

[Jean Poutine]

Its also tradition in the middleeast, even before islam the men were the "alpha"-males

(Cultural) tradition has no business being enforced by the courts, no more than religion does.

Ecclesiastical tribunals, Islamic courts or battei din, call them what you want, they're all abominations trying to justify backwards thinking by pinning it on a deity above.

[ayelove100]

(Cultural) tradition has no business being enforced by the courts, no more than religion does.

Ecclesiastical tribunals, Islamic courts or battei din, call them what you want, they're all abominations trying to justify backwards thinking by pinning it on a deity above.

I dont get what ur saying. Sorry......can you like translate or something?

[Jean Poutine]

I dont get what ur saying. Sorry......can you like translate or something?

Sure.

Ecclesiastical tribunals, Islamic courts or battei din, call them what you want, they're all abominations trying to justify backwards thinking by pinning it on a deity above.

[Magus]

Its also tradition in the middleeast, even before islam the men were the "alpha"-males

False.

Pre-Islamic societies were matriarchal. Hence Queen of Sheba legend. Then you had the Lat, Minat and Uzza, as well as Ishtar and other female figured pantheons in the region.

Women were venerated, back then. Not so after the coming of the monotheistic religions, which has brought down their status to mere companions who are comparable to dogs.

[ayelove100]

Sure.

Ecclesiastical tribunals, Islamic courts or battei din, call them what you want, they're all abominations trying to justify backwards thinking by pinning it on a deity above.

No, i dont think what ur saying is true. What do you mean r u trying to say that religions make u think differently and try to make explanations?? cuz if thats what u mean your incorrect!

[Magus]

No, i dont think what ur saying is true. What do you mean r u trying to say that religions make u think differently and try to make explanations?? cuz if thats what u mean your incorrect!

I don't even...

http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=1487&pictureid=18393

[ayelove100]

I don't even...

image (http://www.virtualteen.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=1487&pictureid=18393)

You dont even what?

[FreeFall]

No, i dont think what ur saying is true. What do you mean r u trying to say that religions make u think differently and try to make explanations?? cuz if thats what u mean your incorrect!
...If religions didn't change the minds of others and give reasons as to why something is, there'd be much less religious and religions. People like that the members share the same ideals, and that they can convert others into it. It means more people who share their religion and ideals. People like that their religion can give them explanations and reasons for why something is. It answers something they don't understand, and they like that, honeslty who doesn't like having answers? It gives people comfort and solace and since many crave that, they drop their "old" ways and dive into the religion that can give them the answers and security they seek.

[Jean Poutine]

No, i dont think what ur saying is true. What do you mean r u trying to say that religions make u think differently and try to make explanations?? cuz if thats what u mean your incorrect!

Um, that's like the whole purpose of a religion.

Transplant everything we know about harmful cults today to the Qur'an and you'll realize that Muhammad was a classic cult leader. Allah told him Arabs could have up to 4 wives but in his case, he could have as many as he wanted, including a 9 year old with who he did have sexual relations? Funny how that reminds me of the typical harem leader like Moïse Thériault in Canada, who thought himself the reincarnation of Moses and had a bunch of wives, or Raël who surrounds himself with his "angels" whose sole purpose in life is to block gunshots and give him sloppy blowjobs while he plays Need For Speed on a 60 inch TV bought with the tithe and application fees of numerous gullible sheeples.

The only difference between that and Islam or Judaism or Christianity is that the latters have the exotic shine of being ancient and the benefit of being impossible to factually verify, whereas we can indeed say that Raël's Angels do exist.

Then apologists try to excuse that in saying that the Qur'an exaggerated to emphasize his new wife's purity, but of what use is such an account if even its adherents admit that certain parts of it are not accurate? If Allah wanted his word to be heard, he had every incentive to make sure his message was legibly and correctly delivered, both when it comes to his teachings and to the acts of his prophet to avoid being discredited, just as human lawmakers have every incentive to make sure the people they legislate for understand the full intent and scope of the laws they enact : failure to do so could lead to rampant injustice or simply make the law unenforceable for a variety of reasons.

Take the Jews, for instance, who say that every single grammatical error is meaningful (the Torah is very badly written with a lot of typos and grammatical mistakes) and try to find sense in, for example, the fact that a feminine noun is treated as masculine or the other way around. It's all bullshit : whoever wrote the Torah simply wasn't a very good writer, or perhaps not even very intelligent. Yet the faithful make a huge leap of logic, justifying bad grammar as "the will of God", while bad grammar in the real world gets laws struck down. If God is so powerful, why do we hold Him to a lesser standard than we hold mere humans simply doing their job?

Religious adherents will always find a way to "justify" such and such fault in their sacred cows, it shapes up somebody's mind to accept that which would be unacceptable in any other context. Reminds you of something? Because it should : it's 1984 doublethink.

Not only do religions make you think differently, they make you think like ass, and the answers they give are demonstrably false unless you have been conditioned to think like ass. In short, religion is worthless, and Islam may be the most worthless of all.

[ayelove100]

Um, that's like the whole purpose of a religion.

Transplant everything we know about harmful cults today to the Qur'an and you'll realize that Muhammad was a classic cult leader. Allah told him Arabs could have up to 4 wives but in his case, he could have as many as he wanted, including a 9 year old with who he did have sexual relations? Funny how that reminds me of the typical harem leader like Moïse Thériault in Canada, who thought himself the reincarnation of Moses and had a bunch of wives, or Raël who surrounds himself with his "angels" whose sole purpose in life is to block gunshots and give him sloppy blowjobs while he plays Need For Speed on a 60 inch TV bought with the tithe and application fees of numerous gullible sheeples.

The only difference between that and Islam or Judaism or Christianity is that the latters have the exotic shine of being ancient and the benefit of being impossible to factually verify, whereas we can indeed say that Raël's Angels do exist.

Then apologists try to excuse that in saying that the Qur'an exaggerated to emphasize his new wife's purity, but of what use is such an account if even its adherents admit that certain parts of it are not accurate? If Allah wanted his word to be heard, he had every incentive to make sure his message was legibly and correctly delivered, both when it comes to his teachings and to the acts of his prophet to avoid being discredited, just as human lawmakers have every incentive to make sure the people they legislate for understand the full intent and scope of the laws they enact : failure to do so could lead to rampant injustice or simply make the law unenforceable for a variety of reasons.

Take the Jews, for instance, who say that every single grammatical error is meaningful (the Torah is very badly written with a lot of typos and grammatical mistakes) and try to find sense in, for example, the fact that a feminine noun is treated as masculine or the other way around. It's all bullshit : whoever wrote the Torah simply wasn't a very good writer, or perhaps not even very intelligent. Yet the faithful make a huge leap of logic, justifying bad grammar as "the will of God", while bad grammar in the real world gets laws struck down. If God is so powerful, why do we hold Him to a lesser standard than we hold mere humans simply doing their job?

Religious adherents will always find a way to "justify" such and such fault in their sacred cows, it shapes up somebody's mind to accept that which would be unacceptable in any other context. Reminds you of something? Because it should : it's 1984 doublethink.

Not only do religions make you think differently, they make you think like ass, and the answer they give are demonstrably false unless you have been conditioned to think like ass. In short, religion is worthless.

Let me help, religion isnt worthless and ur just the ass. Your trying to say that everyone that has a religion thinks like an ass!? Well if thats it then I don't think you are right. I don't know about the 9 year old wife but ill look into that. As for th 4 wives what is th difference between wife and girl friend? Instead of just having sex and not bing married, the men can just marry then have sex the same way other people have sex with people that ar not wifes. Put it this way, its a sin to have sex and not be married. Im going to ask more about that too because I am curious if the man can do that behind the wifees back and it be a sin? I was Christian before so I know that Islam, jews, and christianity are alike, but Islam has some major differences which we dont believ jesus is th son of god, we blive he is a prophet.
The Quran was nevr changed and its written in Arabic. As for the Torah being writtn with grammr mistakes, its because humans make changs to the bible and the Torah, and its also cause the Torah is made a vry long time ago so the grammer today and back then are different. The Quran on the othr hand does not hav changes made by human.

Forgive my grammer cuz im typing fast and my E key isn't working well.

I forgot to add this http://www.google.com/imgres?q=making+fun+of+atheists&um=1&hl=en&safe=active&sa=N&tbo=d&biw=1024&bih=629&tbm=isch&tbnid=UpkHQ2xXaH9Q8M:&imgrefurl=http://amormonandachristian.blogspot.com/2010_12_01_archive.html&docid=UYG4fgsKo2lAnM&imgurl=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_OkBItY8RmPE/TJpFhFMktwI/AAAAAAAAAtc/Im62EOwGDxQ/s1600/atheism.png&w=450&h=450&ei=GWrHUN7-CYq20QGNnoHwCw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=220&sig=104698339531868824771&page=1&tbnh=148&tbnw=168&start=0&ndsp=18&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:91&tx=35&ty=50

Now who thinks like an ass!!!!

[Magus]

Let me help, religion isnt worthless
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf4t89Iqv91qdbblao1_500.jpg
and ur just the ass.
Oh, really?
Your trying to say that everyone that has a religion thinks like an ass!? Well if thats it then I don't think you are right.Very intuitive.
I don't know about the 9 year old wife but ill look into that.Prophet Mohammad Married a 9 year old girl named Aisha. Everyone knows that. She let out the facade, and battled Mohammad's closest companion during his life, Ali.

As for th 4 wives what is th difference between wife and girl friend?Uh... people usually have one girlfriend, not 4 or any arbitrary number.

Instead of just having sex and not bing married, the men can just marry then have sex the same way other people have sex with people that ar not wifes.

Relationship such as those aren't for mere sex. Relationships are built on trust and loyalty.

I don't think marrying over you wife is loyal. That's like basically cheating on your wife, and lessening her value.
Put it this way, its a sin to have sex and not be married.On that day, not a fuck was given.

Im going to ask more about that too because I am curious if the man can do that behind the wifees back and it be a sin?It's called cheating, not sin. Use correct terminology.

I was Christian before so I know that Islam, jews, and christianity are alike, but Islam has some major differences which we dont believ jesus is th son of god, we blive he is a prophet.

There is a lot of difference between the three. And I think Jesus was a hippie.

The Quran was nevr changed and its written in Arabic. As for the Torah being writtn with grammr mistakes, its because humans make changs to the bible and the Torah, and its also cause the Torah is made a vry long time ago so the grammer today and back then are different. The Quran on the othr hand does not hav changes made by human.

Typical Muslim brainwashing. Torah and Bible were written by people, so was the Quran.

And do you have proof that Quran was never changed?

I forgot to add this
Now who thinks like an ass!!!!

Wait, what?

http://www.religifake.com/image/religion/small/1206/makes-perfect-sense-makes-perfect-sense-religion-1338588910.jpg

[ayelove100]

image (http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf4t89Iqv91qdbblao1_500.jpg)

[QUOTE]Oh, really?yeah really, :yes:
Very intuitive.
cool
Prophet Mohammad Married a 9 year old girl named Aisha. Everyone knows that. She let out the facade, and battled Mohammad's closest companion during his life, Ali.
No not everyone knows that, and also i will ask mor about that but I wanna mak my point. Today and back then ar totally different culturs and tims so maybe back thn and today is differnt!

Uh... people usually have one girlfriend, not 4 or any arbitrary number.
Yeah i understand. God made rules for a reason. Here this website will help just be sure to read it all. http://www.islamtomorrow.com/articles/marry_4_women_too.htm




There is a lot of difference between the three. And I think Jesus was a hippie.
I think ur an idiot. Does your opinion matterr, ur just an onlin idiot!!



And do you have proof that Quran was never changed?

There are facts that show, and it would b known by human if it changed over the generation and it didn't. It stats at the beginning that the Quran is the book of Allah that will never be changed heres another website http://www.sydneymuslimyouth.com/smyforum/showthread.php?1506-So-what-proves-the-Quran-has-not-been-changed

Wait, what?
haha u know its true.

[Magus]

yeah really,
What?
cool
What?
No not everyone knows that
Yes, they do.

and also i will ask mor about that but I wanna mak my point. Today and back then ar totally different culturs and tims so maybe back thn and today is differnt!True, and why are people still following mythical concepts from those times?

Yeah i understand. God made rules for a reason. Here this website will help just be sure to read it all. God didn't make any rule for any reason.

I think ur an idiot. Does your opinion matterr, ur just an onlin idiot!!I think you are a troll. And, yes, my opinion matters.

There are facts that show, and it would b known by human if it changed over the generation and it didn't. It stats at the beginning that the Quran is the book of Allah that will never be changed heres another website That's not evidence or proof or facts that shows that Quran has not been altered.

haha u know its true.Invisible djinnis? Girl, you are outta your mind.

[Jean Poutine]

Let me help, religion isnt worthless and ur just the ass.

Ok.

Your trying to say that everyone that has a religion thinks like an ass!?

I am not trying to say that, I am saying that.

Well if thats it then I don't think you are right.

That's right, you don't think. At least not in a logical way. That's the beauty of brainwashing, you think you think but you don't and you don't know it.

I don't know about the 9 year old wife but ill look into that.

How do I know this and you don't, if you really are a Muslim and not a troll?

As a corollary :

No not everyone knows that, and also i will ask mor about that but I wanna mak my point.

There's a problem when an apathetic agnostic non-Muslim knows more about Islam than you as a supposed Muslim does.


As for th 4 wives what is th difference between wife and girl friend? Instead of just having sex and not bing married, the men can just marry then have sex the same way other people have sex with people that ar not wifes.

The difference being that women are treated as objects and marriage as a contract enforcing possession of a woman by a man, instead of a bilateral covenant of fidelity as it should be.

Which is backwards thinking being pinned on a deity above.

Put it this way, its a sin to have sex and not be married. Im going to ask more about that too because I am curious if the man can do that behind the wifees back and it be a sin?

Uh...adultery?

I was Christian before so I know that Islam, jews, and christianity are alike, but Islam has some major differences which we dont believ jesus is th son of god, we blive he is a prophet.

I believe he's just another cult leader, like Moses before and Muhammad after, alongside the likes of Jim Jones and that crazy Japanese dude who ordered the sarin gas attack in Tokyo's subway system.

The Quran was nevr changed and its written in Arabic. As for the Torah being writtn with grammr mistakes, its because humans make changs to the bible and the Torah, and its also cause the Torah is made a vry long time ago so the grammer today and back then are different. The Quran on the othr hand does not hav changes made by human.

No.

The Torah has grammatical mistakes in ancient Hebrew. Hebrew is like Latin for Jews : they did their best to keep it rigorously exact, and each "true" copy of the Torah (the ones in scrolls) has been manually transcribed, letter by letter, by people who do only that for a living, for countless generations. It's a very fair shot to say that the grammatical mistakes originated in the ancient Hebrew and were then, as they are now, grammatical mistakes.

There is no proof that either the Qur'an or the Bible were not altered. Besides, who needs alterations when the hadith system basically allows you to have the Qur'an say whatever you want?

Now who thinks like an ass!!!!

The one being brainwashed by a religion brought about by a cult leader and inspired by barbaric, tribal traditions as practiced in the Middle East 1300 years ago.

So not me.

[ayelove100]

Ok.



[QUOTE]I am not trying to say that, I am saying that.

Wow, i got a bad rep cuz i calld u an ass, while its ok for u to call me one. :what:


How do I know this and you don't, if you really are a Muslim and not a troll?

As a corollary :

Oh so now im the troll. I converted to Islam with my family so I don't know everything yet.


There's a problem when an apathetic agnostic non-Muslim knows more about Islam than you as a supposed Muslim does.



Ok like I said, you probably just learned about Islam online which is not reliable.
[CODE]
The difference being that women are treated as objects and marriage as a contract enforcing possession of a woman by a man, instead of a bilateral covenant of fidelity as it should be.

Women are very valuable, not at all objects. You missunderstood. Islam does not allow adultery before marriage for that exact reason. Cause women are valueable and should be modest. If they were "objects" then they would be on the pole dancing and having sex without marriage all the time.



I believe he's just another cult leader, like Moses before and Muhammad after, alongside the likes of Jim Jones and that crazy Japanese dude who ordered the sarin gas attack in Tokyo's subway system.


exactly you said "I" so its you who believes.



The Torah has grammatical mistakes in ancient Hebrew. Hebrew is like Latin for Jews : they did their best to keep it rigorously exact, and each "true" copy of the Torah (the ones in scrolls) has been manually transcribed, letter by letter, by people who do only that for a living, for countless generations. It's a very fair shot to say that the grammatical mistakes originated in the ancient Hebrew and were then, as they are now, grammatical mistakes.

Yeah i understand.

There is no proof that either the Qur'an or the Bible were not altered. Besides, who needs alterations when the hadith system basically allows you to have the Qur'an say whatever you want?

Prove it? What hadith ever said its permitted to change Allahs words?

[TigerBoy]

Wow, i got a bad rep cuz i calld u an ass, while its ok for u to call me one. :what:


Actually I gave you a bad rep for substituting polite and rational argument with calling Magus an idiot. Forseti simply said that you think like an ass. You have been name calling, they have just been criticising your lack of rational thought.

[ayelove100]

Actually I gave you a bad rep for substituting polite and rational argument with calling Magus an idiot. Forseti simply said that you think like one. You have been name calling, they have just been criticising your lack of rational thought.

No he called me an ass and if someone says that to me I'm not just gonna ignore it. As for Magus, I didnt really put that to mind. I dunno Imma either edit or apologize. But for Forsti, i dont care..

[TigerBoy]

No he called me an ass and if someone says that to me I'm not just gonna ignore it. As for Magus, I didnt really put that to mind. I dunno Imma either edit or apologize. But for Forsti, i dont care..

Yep I corrected that detail before you posted, I guess you missed it, and you've still got it slightly wrong. Its an important difference: you weren't called an ass, you were told you were thinking like one.

Criticising thought processes is what debate is about. Its up to each side to show their thinking is more accurate and defensible, so perhaps it wasn't as polite as it might have been, but there was plenty of rational argument to help you change your mind. Ad hominem attacks (name calling) is 'against the rules' of debating because it just gets people upset, and is often used when people are running out of rational arguments.

In another instance of ad hominem attack you've also just dismissed Forseti's knowledge for being unreliable out of hand, where you have also admitted you don't know much yourself having just converted. Does that not strike you as being a) unreasonable and b) hypocritical?

I don't know about you, but I'm learning lots about Islam from this thread. For example I didn't know about hadith - my understanding is that they allow for specific interpretations of the Qur'an, supporting the point that was being made to you by Forseti that a) different interpretations are possible b) it is irrelevant whether the Qur'an was changed or not in that light.

[ayelove100]

Yep I corrected that detail before you posted, I guess you missed it, and you've still got it slightly wrong. Its an important difference: you weren't called an ass, you were told you were thinking like one.

Criticising thought processes is what debate is about. Its up to each side to show their thinking is more accurate and defensible, so perhaps it wasn't as polite as it might have been, but there was plenty of rational argument to help you change your mind. Ad hominem attacks (name calling) is 'against the rules' of debating because it just gets people upset, and is often used when people are running out of rational arguments.

In another instance of ad hominem attack you've also just dismissed Forseti's knowledge for being unreliable out of hand, where you have also admitted you don't know much yourself having just converted. Does that not strike you as being a) unreasonable and b) hypocritical?

I don't know about you, but I'm learning lots about Islam from this thread. For example I didn't know about hadith - my understanding is that they allow for specific interpretations of the Qur'an, supporting the point that was being made to you by Forseti that a) different interpretations are possible b) it is irrelevant whether the Qur'an was changed or not in that light.

Thats great you are learning about Islam, I am learning about it cause i wanna learn more about God that creatd me and everyone else, not for the thread. Careful cause not everything (most) online is correct. Especially about religions, you cant trust online people. And as for the part of calling me or my thinking an ass, i will edit it and say your thinking is the ass. :) happy now, jk. Anyways, yeah i know during dbating it will get serious but it should not go to the point he calls me or my thinking an ass.

[Gigablue]

Please stop fighting. There is nothing wrong with disagreement, but name-calling is unnecessary and doesn't contribute to the thread. If this continues, the thread will be locked.

[Jean Poutine]

Oh so now im the troll. I converted to Islam with my family so I don't know everything yet.

Usually you learn about a religion before converting. How did it happen, recite the shahada three times then hurrah you're a Muslim?

Ok like I said, you probably just learned about Islam online which is not reliable.

I've actually learned about Islam from people that studied in madrasas and perhaps in the future, in the newly found optic of being commissioned to write a judicial memo for the branch of Lawyers without Borders in my university, I will do a tons more research about it.

And also my Muslim roommate.

But nice try.

Women are very valuable, not at all objects. You missunderstood. Islam does not allow adultery before marriage for that exact reason. Cause women are valueable and should be modest. If they were "objects" then they would be on the pole dancing and having sex without marriage all the time.

Husbands control their wives like a shepherd controls his flock. The fact that the sheep are valuable to the shepherd does not make them any less a commodity, just as Muslim women are.

Muslim women pay to divorce their husband in the khula.
Muslim women are declared subservient and inferior to men in the Qur'an.
Hell, husbands are encouraged to beat the hell out of their wife.
Qur'an 4:34 - http://www.multimediaquran.com/quran/004/004-034.htm

Objects are worthy of control and spite. Women are not objects. They are living, breathing, thinking being with ambitions, desires and dreams. There is jurisprudence in Egypt to the effect that a man blocked his wife from a business trip for...nothing but his will, as I've said.

Women are placed subservient to men and they are objectified in the Qur'an where marriage is almost treated as slavery, with the woman having to buy her freedom and ask permission from her husband or a qadi to divorce.

Yeah, women are objects. The whole "women are princesses not to be defiled" is old. It's exactly what I'm talking about. Women aren't Barbie dolls, it's misogynistic bullshit spun to look palatable to the ones it oppresses. Women are every bit as capable as men to take charge of their own destiny.

I am not fooled.

PS : the absurd incidence of sexual assault and rape in Saudi Arabia says a lot about the status women are given in an Islamist society. Objects.

exactly you said "I" so its you who believes.

The difference being that my opinion is at least rational. I fear no man in the sky.

Oh, a little late, but concerning your little picture : I am not an atheist.

Prove it? What hadith ever said its permitted to change Allahs words?

The hadith system itself is flawed is what I've said. It relies on anecdotes from more or less dubious sources with all the Muslim bigwigs arguing which ones are authentic or not, except there is no tangible proof to their authenticity, so it leaves said bigwigs with an open field to promote whatever agenda they want, putting through hadiths that agree with them as "authentic" and leaving behind those they don't like, often forging some outright. Even those confirmed as authentic can just be twisted to fit another Qur'anic interpretation as chosen.

This is why you get bullshit like "Islam is a religion of peace" and "let's wipe out Israel off the face of the Earth" at the same time. And then you have fatwas which are even worse because it's just a mufti saying whatever the Hell he wants concerning Islamic law. Ayatollah Khomeini threatened Salman Rushdie, a poor writer who did nothing wrong, with death in a fatwa and this is apparently an appropriate interpretation of Islamic law, and by extension, faith. Thank Pete they are non binding. Usually.

Anyways, yeah i know during dbating it will get serious but it should not go to the point he calls me or my thinking an ass.

I call things as I see them. Don't worry, I really am a nice person on the inside.

Who am I kidding.

[MichaelJ]

Islam is fine, but due to certain extremists now days who run extreme sharia states (or their interpretation of sharia) it has become corrupted. I also believe that many do not stand up to the face of extremism

[ayelove100]

[QUOTE=Forseti;2050154]Usually you learn about a religion before converting. How did it happen, recite the shahada three times then hurrah you're a Muslim?

No, I converted with my whole family and we know the basics of Islam and what to believe. Its a long story on how it happened.

I've actually learned about Islam from people that studied in madrasas and perhaps in the future, in the newly found optic of being commissioned to write a judicial memo for the branch of Lawyers without Borders in my university, I will do a tons more research about it.

And also my Muslim roommate.

But nice try.


Ok as for your muslim roomate, not all muslims know much about their religion and were just born with a muslim family so they would just call themselves muslims. You need to talk to an Imam to get the Deen right like i did, not to just ordinary people who dont specialize.

Husbands control their wives like a shepherd controls his flock. The fact that the sheep are valuable to the shepherd does not make them any less a commodity, just as Muslim women are.


Excuse me, but no u have it completely wrong. Muslim is a religion and it does not tell u to hit ur wife. Where the hell did you get this from. If it was then it would not be the fastest growing religion. It is said that 20,000 americans each year convert to islam and thats amrica alone. I am not sure were u got beat the hell out of ur wifes. This must be a cultual thing or something not a religion thing.

Muslim women pay to divorce their husband in the khula.
Muslim women are declared subservient and inferior to men in the Qur'an.
Hell, husbands are encouraged to beat the hell out of their wife.
Qur'an 4:34 - http://www.multimediaquran.com/quran/004/004-034.htm

It is said in Islam that the husband must trreat the wife with respect and the wife must treat the husband as well with respects. Its a sin if you hit your wife.

Objects are worthy of control and spite. Women are not objects. They are living, breathing, thinking being with ambitions, desires and dreams. There is jurisprudence in Egypt to the effect that a man blocked his wife from a business trip for...nothing but his will, as I've said.

In islam it says that women and men are equal in allahs eyes. Women are allahs creation and allah would never let them be as objects. If they were onjects then they would not be dressing modestly. They would be out there as a prostitute, which is a real object.

Women are placed subservient to men and they are objectified in the Qur'an where marriage is almost treated as slavery, with the woman having to buy her freedom and ask permission from her husband or a qadi to divorce.

Ok umm i dont know where your getting this bullshit from so prove to me where you got it from. Women are not slaves at all. Its more as culture and things when the man hits the women. Women is Islam are treated with total respect. I have read about women getting hit and forced into marriag too but in islam its sinning to force the gil into marriage and hitting her for no reason. The girl has to accept the marriage since she is the one getting married.

Yeah, women are objects. The whole "women are princesses not to be defiled" is old. It's exactly what I'm talking about. Women aren't Barbie dolls, it's misogynistic bullshit spun to look palatable to the ones it oppresses. Women are every bit as capable as men to take charge of their own destiny.
Yes, thats exactly right. Islam does not have anything against that but the women must have their husband accept. If he doesnt she may divorce him or convince him.

I am not fooled.
No one said ur fooled.

PS : the absurd incidence of sexual assault and rape in Saudi Arabia says a lot about the status women are given in an Islamist society. Objects.

Rape is in America to and rape is total against Islam. I think a muslim would know.

The difference being that my opinion is at least rational. I fear no man in the sky.
God is not man he created man.

Oh, a little late, but concerning your little picture : I am not an atheist.
Umm what r u?


The hadith system itself is flawed is what I've said. It relies on anecdotes from more or less dubious sources with all the Muslim bigwigs arguing which ones are authentic or not, except there is no tangible proof to their authenticity, so it leaves said bigwigs with an open field to promote whatever agenda they want, putting through hadiths that agree with them as "authentic" and leaving behind those they don't like, often forging some outright. Even those confirmed as authentic can just be twisted to fit another Qur'anic interpretation as chosen.


Quran has never ever been changed and please talk english so I understand what your saying.

This is why you get bullshit like "Islam is a religion of peace" and "let's wipe out Israel off the face of the Earth" at the same time. And then you have fatwas which are even worse because it's just a mufti saying whatever the Hell he wants concerning Islamic law. Ayatollah Khomeini threatened Salman Rushdie, a poor writer who did nothing wrong, with death in a fatwa and this is apparently an appropriate interpretation of Islamic law, and by extension, faith. Thank Pete they are non binding. Usually.



Islam is not bullshit. Your mind is. Like theories Faatwas have to be proven. Its not just something you say.

[Jean Poutine]

No, I converted with my whole family and we know the basics of Islam and what to believe. Its a long story on how it happened.

Apparently not because everybody knows Aisha's story.

Congrats your prophet is a pedo.

Ok as for your muslim roomate, not all muslims know much about their religion and were just born with a muslim family so they would just call themselves muslims. You need to talk to an Imam to get the Deen right like i did, not to just ordinary people who dont specialize.

Amazing how you just completely ignored the point where I talked with actual people who actually studied in actual Muslim madrasas, and read books written by even more.

By the way I was commissioned for a research project on the Islamic uprising in Mali for Lawyers Without Borders as of yesterday. They chose me because I know my shit when it comes to Islam's interaction with human governance, and Islam by ricochet.

Seriously. I know what I'm talking about.

Excuse me, but no u have it completely wrong. Muslim is a religion and it does not tell u to hit ur wife. Where the hell did you get this from. If it was then it would not be the fastest growing religion. It is said that 20,000 americans each year convert to islam and thats amrica alone. I am not sure were u got beat the hell out of ur wifes. This must be a cultual thing or something not a religion thing.

It's written in the Qur'an. I linked the relevant passage to you.

It is said in Islam that the husband must trreat the wife with respect and the wife must treat the husband as well with respects. Its a sin if you hit your wife.

See above. If she doesn't obey her all-powerful husband it's okay to beat her up, as long as you deprive her of sex first (lol).

In islam it says that women and men are equal in allahs eyes. Women are allahs creation and allah would never let them be as objects. If they were onjects then they would not be dressing modestly. They would be out there as a prostitute, which is a real object.

No it doesn't. Again, the passage which I linked out in the Qur'an says flat out that men are stronger and superior to women and that is why women should be subservient to their husband.

As I said, hadith and fatwa. Congrats you are learning shit going directly against what was divinely inspired by Allah because mere humans took anecdotes and twisted them to fit the whole propaganda message that "Islam is a religion of peace and equality, and everything else demeaning to women is obviously an offshoot of cultural Arab mores".

Newsflash : it really isn't. Islam is a deeply misogynistic religion.

Also, if women weren't objects they would not cover themselves so as to avoid awakening the man's sexual desires. That's the only reason women are told to "dress modestly" in any religion. They would be out there, doing whatever they want like real human beings. By the way, prostitutes aren't objects. They're people like you and me and most of them are forced in this lifestyle by way of circumstances or birth.

Like Muslim women.

Ok umm i dont know where your getting this bullshit from so prove to me where you got it from. Women are not slaves at all. Its more as culture and things when the man hits the women. Women is Islam are treated with total respect. I have read about women getting hit and forced into marriag too but in islam its sinning to force the gil into marriage and hitting her for no reason. The girl has to accept the marriage since she is the one getting married.

Sigh.

Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

http://quran.com/4/34

It's not culture. It's written there, as the Exalted Word Of Allah(tm), and since the man sustains the woman financially, she is to be totally devoted to him.

That's the definition of slavery. Slaves are hosted and fed by their masters in exchange for work and obedience. That's all there is to it.

PS : I treat my bird and dog with total respect. It doesn't mean they aren't my property.

Yes, thats exactly right. Islam does not have anything against that but the women must have their husband accept. If he doesnt she may divorce him or convince him.

And pay him, no matter is it's the husband or the qadi that decides on the divorce.

That's called buying back one's freedom. Reminds you of American freedmen? It should.

By the way, women have to pay the men to divorce and seek either the husband's permission or a qadi's (khula), but men just have to tell them to pack their shit and leave 3 times (talaq).

No one said ur fooled.

You sadly are.

Rape is in America to and rape is total against Islam. I think a muslim would know.

Rape levels in America are nowhere as near as those in Saudi Arabia. Sexual assault over there is depressingly common and it is because men are taught by their strictly Islamic upbringing that they are superior and women are objects. A fleshlight doesn't have to consent if you wanna put your dick inside. Another factor is the strict segregation of sexes over there.

God is not man he created man.

God is man insofar as He is simply a figment of our collective imagination. God is nothing more than a creation myth. What makes it so special compared to the countless other creation myths out there?

Umm what r u?

Apathetic agnostic.

Quran has never ever been changed and please talk english so I understand what your saying.

There is nothing overly complicated in what I've said.

Islam is not bullshit. Your mind is. Like theories Faatwas have to be proven. Its not just something you say.

Islam began to be bullshit as soon as its tenets were used to justify the cold-blooded assassination of another human being who has strictly done nothing wrong.

So way before Salman Rushdie, but doesn't it bother you that Islamic law can be "interpreted" and "proven" by a very big Shi'a mufti to order the murder of an Indian writer whose only crime is that he has written stuff against Islam?

Doesn't it bother you that in uncultured parlance, a fatwa is an order of assassination, plain and simple?

[CharlieFinley]

[QUOTE=Magus;2049800]image (http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf4t89Iqv91qdbblao1_500.jpg)

yeah really, :yes:
Very intuitive.
cool
Prophet Mohammad Married a 9 year old girl named Aisha. Everyone knows that. She let out the facade, and battled Mohammad's closest companion during his life, Ali.
No not everyone knows that, and also i will ask mor about that but I wanna mak my point. Today and back then ar totally different culturs and tims so maybe back thn and today is differnt! If you will pardon my profanity, your OWN FUCKING RELIGION TEACHES THAT.

Uh... people usually have one girlfriend, not 4 or any arbitrary number.
Yeah i understand. God made rules for a reason. Here this website will help just be sure to read it all. http://www.islamtomorrow.com/articles/marry_4_women_too.htm... I'm not even sure where to begin. Should I begin with the fact that you're not even pretending to understand the concept in question but rather posting a link to someone else making your argument for you, or should I start with the fact that your prophet was still a pedophile?

There is a lot of difference between the three. And I think Jesus was a hippie.
Only without the drugs and free love. :(

And do you have proof that Quran was never changed?

There are facts that show, and it would b known by human if it changed over the generation and it didn't. It stats at the beginning that the Quran is the book of Allah that will never be changed heres another website http://www.sydneymuslimyouth.com/smyforum/showthread.php?1506-So-what-proves-the-Quran-has-not-been-changed
I invite you to actually defend your own point rather than posting links.


I am not trying to say that, I am saying that.
That's uncalled for and inaccurate.



The difference being that women are treated as objects and marriage as a contract enforcing possession of a woman by a man, instead of a bilateral covenant of fidelity as it should be.
/applauds
There is no proof that either the Qur'an or the Bible were not altered. Besides, who needs alterations when the hadith system basically allows you to have the Qur'an say whatever you want?
This. If they could've managed it, the Party would never have revised the news. They would've just changed the official interpretation of it to mean what they wanted it to.

The one being brainwashed by a religion brought about by a cult leader and inspired by barbaric, tribal traditions as practiced in the Middle East 1300 years ago.Well, you're still thinking like an ass, in the sense that you think it's alright to denigrate several billion people on the basis of your own perceived intellectual superiority. I try to denigrate only the people right in front of me demonstrating their own intellectual inferiority.

Usually you learn about a religion before converting. How did it happen, recite the shahada three times then hurrah you're a Muslim? /applauds again. I was about to say something similar.


Objects are worthy of control and spite. Spite? For an object? Unless it's Dark Souls, I don't really think so.

[Jean Poutine]

That's uncalled for and inaccurate.

I am not a very pleasant person.

Aw hell, that's not true. I'm a big softie inside.

Well, you're still thinking like an ass, in the sense that you think it's alright to denigrate several billion people on the basis of your own perceived intellectual superiority. I try to denigrate only the people right in front of me demonstrating their own intellectual inferiority.

No man, you got it wrong. I am not thinking like an ass. I am an ass.

And when it comes to insulting people, I'm prone to hyperbole, either in quality or quantity.

Spite? For an object? Unless it's Dark Souls, I don't really think so.

Or Monster Hunter.

[CharlieFinley]

No man, you got it wrong. I am not thinking like an ass. I am an ass.

And when it comes to insulting people, I'm prone to hyperbole, either in quality or quantity. Fair enough.
Or Monster Hunter.

That's making me sad inside. Monster Hunter Freedom 2 was awesome, if poorly-named. Were you referring specifically to the original?

[Jean Poutine]

That's making me sad inside. Monster Hunter Freedom 2 was awesome, if poorly-named. Were you referring specifically to the original?

Was more thinking about Freedom Unite.

Don't get me wrong, MH is awesome. It's just very, very frustrating, at least to me.

Then again I am just a frustrated person. I'm bad at roll cancels so Plessy hip checks were really lame especially when there's no way it hit you by the animation ._.

[CharlieFinley]

Was more thinking about Freedom Unite.

Don't get me wrong, MH is awesome. It's just very, very frustrating, at elast to me.

Then again I am just a frustrated person.

What's frustrating is trying to get a Wii emulator to work on the PC so I can play MH3, durnit. What else is frustrating is that I can emulate FFXII from the PS2 to the PC in 1080p with MSAA antialiasing, but I can't even get a home screen from a PSP emulator.

[Magus]

Did you guys mentioned about Slavery in Islam?

Don't forget to add that a slave women also acts as a concubine to her male masters, and that they have the same formal uniform code as men do(no shirts, and up to knees pants)?

Oh, lord. Just show how hypocritical this religion is.

This tradition goes back to Pre-Islamic times, yet this religion that ought to bring people to the light did not change any of it.

Did the culture influence the religion, or is it the other way? Now that's a question you should be asking yourself.

[ayelove100]

[QUOTE=ayelove100;2049825][QUOTE] If you will pardon my profanity, your OWN FUCKING RELIGION TEACHES THAT.
I THINK ID KNOW WHAT MY RELIGION TEACHES COMPARED TO U!!!

[ayelove100]

Did you guys mentioned about Slavery in Islam?

Islam does not accept slavelery. Go check ur resources.

Don't forget to add that a slave women also acts as a concubine to her male masters, and that they have the same formal uniform code as men do(no shirts, and up to knees pants)?

Thats not true. And if u think it is prove it.
Oh, lord. Just show how hypocritical this religion is.


No the religion is not hypocritical. It resembles treat others the way u wanna be treated. Some people in the religion will ignore that which makes islam look bad but its not.


Did the culture influence the religion, or is it the other way? Now that's a question you should be asking yourself.

No culture is more like the people and country. Religion is the belief and people should change themselves.

[FreeFall]

[QUOTE=CharlieFinley;2051536][QUOTE=ayelove100;2049825]
I THINK ID KNOW WHAT MY RELIGION TEACHES COMPARED TO U!!!
I guess that just makes it even more sad that you do not.

Look, there's the Islam culture and the Islam religion. Just like the Jewish culture and Jewish religion. For Islam the culture and religion are very often synonymous, as they evolve their lives around their religion (clothing, hair, all that) and as such, they're one in the same in many regions. So now with that in mind, I'd also like to know the answer.

[Gigablue]

OP request. :locked: