israel

[TheBigUnit]

Do you think israel is justified to give all the threat they're giving now to like iran, to gaza, to syria,
Would this be the start of world war 3?

[West Coast Sheriff]

FYI the cold war was WWIII. Vietnam and Korea were just two separate parts of the same massive world war. Although we never fought with The USSR directly, we fought with their allies just as they fought with ours(Afghanistan at the time). But yes, it can Definately lead to a WWIV. The whole middle east would close in on Israel. Attacking them. The USA and UK would come in to intervene. Russia would take sides with the middle east. Korea and china might get involved. It would certainly get ugly and could cause massive chaos and destruction.

[TheBigUnit]

Cold war was never a war just a standoff you contradicted yourself rite now, you are rite about indirect conflicts, also afghanistan was never an ally but please do not explain it to me I already did projects tests etc all on it, to be honest with you north korea isn't even a factor and I believe this kim jung un guy might actually reform korea, that or he's going to be very shady and have a stronger secret police, not just UK Usa but NATO, saudi mite not attack, it really depends on who starts the major war, it won't be a conventional war but a jihad with all the muslim brotherhood supporters finding excuses and leading the way, russia prob won't do anything maybe gain a pocket of oil rich land but I think if a major war breaks out in the middle east putin would find an excuse to attack those terrorist nations that constantly annoying russia, I believe its call chechnzia?

[PinkFloyd]

Well sooner or later Israel is gonna do something stupid and the middle east will kill them. Russia will probably side with the middle east. By this time, The Unided Kingdom And the Undited States will get involved and boom. We got us a world war III

[Cicero]

I do think it's justified, I mean it's not like its out of the blue, Iran and the other countries were taking land because they believe it's holy land just like the iraelis. For Israel all of that land is the holy land. What originally happened (or thought to happen) was Abrahams two sons who hated each other wnt off on their own. One of the brothers created what Israel is today and the other one created what Iran, Iraq etc is today. I really don't know if that's real or not. But that's what the Christian faith believes in (and that faith is a branch from the Jewish faith). I'm very much Pro-Israel btw

I think that if the cards are played a certain way, there would be a possibility of a WWIII which honestly terrifies me. Multiple times Iran/Iraq has been told not to make nuclear weapons, but they continue to try to develop them. So the USA will most likely be on Israels side, even though Obama isn't mch of an Israel supporter (ie, showing disrespect to the Israeli prime minister, telling Israel to give up even MORE land than what they've already given up, etc).

[TheBigUnit]

the fact that netanyahu is triggerhappy scares me

[Mortal Coil]

I think it is justified. Israel is a country and when it first gained its independence, several other middle eastern countries teamed up and launched an attack on Israel. Ever since then it's basically been back and forth. Israel is defending itself.

[Azunite]

You can't evaluate threats as "justified" or "injustified". They are simply pale talks used to scare the enemy or intimidate them. It's quite normal in politics; it is like discussing whether saying "good morning" at 11 AM is justified or not.

Speaking of just, I find Israel's doings in which they kill Palestinian children injustified.

[World Eater]

Holy land? My ass. To me, land that has been stained with the blood over the course of history should not be considered holy.

At any rate, I could care less about Israel's operation. I know they'll be just fine.

[Gordo]

For now Israel has the upper hand because of their nukes. What's happened so far is more of seeing how much they can irritate each other w/o going too far.

Israel is pretty small and if they think they will be wiped out, launching their 13 nukes woulds ensure mutual destruction in that region. So if Iran does get a nuke and uses it, they can expect to get leveled by the Israelis as well as anyone that supports Iran.

Don't worry about another world war.

[TheBigUnit]

That would escalate world war wouldn't it? The scary thing with israel is that they as a nation r the most willing to launch nukes, more than iran or n korea

[Noirtier]

That would escalate world war wouldn't it? The scary thing with israel is that they as a nation r the most willing to launch nukes, more than iran or n korea

Actually this is untrue. North Korea has actually fired nuclear missiles at the United States before--they failed miserably and crashed into the ocean, but they still did it. Iran has also been the one to threaten Israel first, not the other way around. Now, that being said, I don't support Israel's conflict with the Palestinians, but I do feel they are justified in trying to defend themselves from Iran and other Middle Eastern countries. Palestine and Gaza are typically offensive movements by Israel though, not defensive movements. As far as World War III goes, I find it hard to believe that it will occur. Economically and militarily, a World War III would be too costly for any nation--it would mean a total crash of the world economy and the utter annihilation of the world through nuclear warfare. That's why nuclear weapons are never fired by the United States anymore--they know if they did it would result in a nuclear World War III which would almost certainly be the destruction of the human race.

[TheBigUnit]

Actually this is untrue. North Korea has actually fired nuclear missiles at the United States before--they failed miserably and crashed into the ocean, but they still did it. Iran has also been the one to threaten Israel first, not the other way around. Now, that being said, I don't support Israel's conflict with the Palestinians, but I do feel they are justified in trying to defend themselves from Iran and other Middle Eastern countries. Palestine and Gaza are typically offensive movements by Israel though, not defensive movements. As far as World War III goes, I find it hard to believe that it will occur. Economically and militarily, a World War III would be too costly for any nation--it would mean a total crash of the world economy and the utter annihilation of the world through nuclear warfare. That's why nuclear weapons are never fired by the United States anymore--they know if they did it would result in a nuclear World War III which would almost certainly be the destruction of the human race.

Very true, but when did N Korea try this? Iran did kinda start this, and i do hear rumors that iran might have been arming the militants in gaza, israel would be the least afraid to press the big red button though especially if Sh*t hit the fan and they are surrounded

To tell you the truth i think israel should just invade now more missiles are hitting the bigger cities and these air strikes doesnt sem like they're exactly working

[Noirtier]

Very true, but when did N Korea try this? Iran did kinda start this, and i do hear rumors that iran might have been arming the militants in gaza, israel would be the least afraid to press the big red button though especially if Sh*t hit the fan and they are surrounded

To tell you the truth i think israel should just invade now more missiles are hitting the bigger cities and these air strikes doesnt sem like they're exactly working

North Korea fired the nuclear missiles a couple times in the past few years. Most notably recently was once earlier this year. North Korea under the new Kim Jong Un administration had gone through talks with the USA about stopping their nuclear weapons program in exchange for food aid. They agreed to do it. Being the geniuses that they were, they fired a missile at us (that crashed into the pacific) before they even received any food aid from us. Needless to say, they didn't keep their end of the deal, so we didn't keep ours. As far as Israel invading goes, I assumed it was going to happen anyway--it has several times before. The question to ask is whether Egypt will get involved or not after some very anti-Israeli comments by the new Egyptian president Mohammed Morsi.

[Sugaree]

Do you think israel is justified to give all the threat they're giving now to like iran, to gaza, to syria,
Would this be the start of world war 3?

Israel has never been justified in the last thirty years for any of their actions against their neighbors. In the beginning, yes, because they were still a sprawling nation. But among all others in the Arab world, Israel is the strongest nation for all the funding and weapons they get from the United States. Their aggression comes from an air of superiority that doesn't have a reason to exist. Israel deserves the right to exist, sure; they don't have a right to bomb Gaza.

Every time this happens, they kill at least 50 to 100 Palestinians who did NOTHING to them. Then Palestine launches a couple dozen rockets to Israel's hundreds and Israel bitches about terrorism.

[Noirtier]

Israel deserves the right to exist, sure; they don't have a right to bomb Gaza.

This tends to be my view towards Israel as well. Not a popular one in my town, but to each his own.

[TheBigUnit]

North Korea fired the nuclear missiles a couple times in the past few years. Most notably recently was once earlier this year. North Korea under the new Kim Jong Un administration had gone through talks with the USA about stopping their nuclear weapons program in exchange for food aid. They agreed to do it. Being the geniuses that they were, they fired a missile at us (that crashed into the pacific) before they even received any food aid from us. Needless to say, they didn't keep their end of the deal, so we didn't keep ours. As far as Israel invading goes, I assumed it was going to happen anyway--it has several times before. The question to ask is whether Egypt will get involved or not after some very anti-Israeli comments by the new Egyptian president Mohammed Morsi.

Morsi is part of the muslim brotherhood whose sister organization is hamas
But they are very unpredictable,

I thought that missile wasn't a nuke and they were just testing it?


Israel has never been justified in the last thirty years for any of their actions against their neighbors. In the beginning, yes, because they were still a sprawling nation. But among all others in the Arab world, Israel is the strongest nation for all the funding and weapons they get from the United States. Their aggression comes from an air of superiority that doesn't have a reason to exist. Israel deserves the right to exist, sure; they don't have a right to bomb Gaza.

Every time this happens, they kill at least 50 to 100 Palestinians who did NOTHING to them. Then Palestine launches a couple dozen rockets to Israel's hundreds and Israel bitches about terrorism.

That's what I'm thinking its similar to our drone strikes in pakistan,
But how are they going to truce or at least stop the terrorists? The reason why the missiles are escalating is bc of some broken truce

[Noirtier]

I thought that missile wasn't a nuke and they were just testing it?

It was a nuclear missile that they had fired with the intent of nuking Hawaii. They publicly acknowledged that that was their intention.

[TheBigUnit]

It was a nuclear missile that they had fired with the intent of nuking Hawaii. They publicly acknowledged that that was their intention.

Damn, its impressive how our media really down played it then

[Iron Man]

Honestly, I don't care about Israel. They are just another nation to me.

[Cicero]

That would escalate world war wouldn't it? The scary thing with israel is that they as a nation r the most willing to launch nukes, more than iran or n korea

Not exactly, the thing with Israel, is no matter what, they have to always act like they can 'play with the big dogs'. If they didn't have that type of attitude Iran/Iraq would just trample over them. If your getting bullied, and you just sit there and take it, the bullying won't stop. You have to actually get up and speak out, and take action in order for that bullying to stop. So that's exactly what Israel is doing, you have to have that type of mentality of "You fuck with me then I'll fuck with you". Iraq/Iran won't stop fucking with Israel if they just sit there and stop the threats and stop the threats. Israel killing innocent children is unjustifiable, but we have to remember that the US did the same with Japan. Think about all the innocent lives that were lost on that same day, so Israel isn't the only one who's at fault for this. None the less it doesn't make it any better.

[sammy1996]

As far as im concerned israel are more than within their rights for such behaviour, even in the past week with the air strikes. They are surrounded by nations which openly declare their want for israel to be wiped of the face of the earth, being surrounded by hostile muslims requires israel to be tough and act how they do, or else they could easily be attacked.

[Will Grigg's on Fire]

I said this already quite a few years ago and now the horror of the reality is starting to be far more real. I said that I believe WW3 will start when a Nuclear bomb is dropped on a country and it was rather obvious that it would be Iran dropping it on Israel. Now this seems very scary and probable.

I think Israel's actions are 100% justifiable. If rockets were launched on a daily basis into any other country in the world, targeting their civilians, they would have done far more far sooner.

[Gigablue]

I think they should be able to exist and should be able to defend themselves, but that they go a bit too far. Bombing gaza isn't really necessary, and many civilians are killed in their attacks.

[Sugaree]

I think they should be able to exist and should be able to defend themselves, but that they go a bit too far. Bombing gaza isn't really necessary, and many civilians are killed in their attacks.

Well, the rockets fired at Israel came from Gaza. What were they supposed to bomb?

[TheBigUnit]

The problem is, is that HAMAS HQs are situated near schools and other major civilian areas, I think they should just invade Gaza and set a region for palestine, hamas I guess should get taken down,

its really is perspective too when you think about it, to tell you the truth europe really fucked up the middle east, they made the borders to their liking and influenced by really ancient biblical borders, the palestines lost their homeland and since most are and were uneducated the only way they knew to resist is trough these attacks, these bombs are all what they have since they even kno the IDF will obliterate them
I think someone should unite the middle east to form either one country(not gonna happen most likely) or many countries whose border they desire, many people need a country yet never got one like the kurds the ME might become stable, ufortunatly this might be ww3 and israel would be in major trouble,
Israel or some terrorist will be the first to launch a nuke

[Cicero]

The problem is, is that HAMAS HQs are situated near schools and other major civilian areas, I think they should just invade Gaza and set a region for palestine, hamas I guess should get taken down,

its really is perspective too when you think about it, to tell you the truth europe really fucked up the middle east, they made the borders to their liking and influenced by really ancient biblical borders, the palestines lost their homeland and since most are and were uneducated the only way they knew to resist is trough these attacks, these bombs are all what they have since they even kno the IDF will obliterate them
I think someone should unite the middle east to form either one country(not gonna happen most likely) or many countries whose border they desire, many people need a country yet never got one like the kurds the ME might become stable, ufortunatly this might be ww3 and israel would be in major trouble,
Israel or some terrorist will be the first to launch a nuke

False.

The Romans overthrew Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and destroyed the Jewish Temple. The historian Josephus recounts this for us quite well.

The Bible predicts the destruction of the Temple and the scattering of the Jewish people around the globe. It says that they will be a part of every nation on the earth, but will still retain their identity, and will eventually return to their homeland. Despite the fact that a conquered people lose their identity and begin to assimilate within about two generations (ever meet a Moabite, a Caananite, a Sumerian?) the Jewish people have retained their Jewish identity, and after World War II, via a UN resolution and the support of the United States, they returned to their homeland and established the nation of Israel in 1948.Source: Yahoo! Answers. A question I asked specifically for this thread.

[LouBerry]

I don't know what is going to happen with them. But, I know this, God is pretty clear that they are his people, and who ever hurts him or fails to protect them, will be punished. Now, just because I believe it, doesn't mean I think it's fair, because I don't.

[squibles976]

Israel is fully justified

[CharlieFinley]

Holy land? My ass. To me, land that has been stained with the blood over the course of history should not be considered holy.

At any rate, I could care less about Israel's operation. I know they'll be just fine.

Well, it's a good thing you get to dictate what qualifies as holy to other people, then.

Oh, wait...

Also, Noirter, that's untrue. We would have bombed the bejeezus out of them if they had a declared intention of nuking Hawaii.

EDIT: to sum up my views on the matter: the terrorist actions taken against Israel are state-sponsored terrorism, which is one of many acceptable justifications for aggressive military response. Civilian targets are a traditionally-acceptable target in war. It sucks, and I don't like it, but that's how it is. Israel is justified.

[TheBigUnit]

False.

Source: Yahoo! Answers. A question I asked specifically for this thread.

wait was that supposed to directed at me? and whats false?

[Cicero]

wait was that supposed to directed at me? and whats false?

Originally Posted by Shanecoleman
The problem is, is that HAMAS HQs are situated near schools and other major civilian areas, I think they should just invade Gaza and set a region for palestine, hamas I guess should get taken down,

its really is perspective too when you think about it, to tell you the truth europe really fucked up the middle east, they made the borders to their liking and influenced by really ancient biblical borders, the palestines lost their homeland and since most are and were uneducated the only way they knew to resist is trough these attacks, these bombs are all what they have since they even kno the IDF will obliterate them
I think someone should unite the middle east to form either one country(not gonna happen most likely) or many countries whose border they desire, many people need a country yet never got one like the kurds the ME might become stable, ufortunatly this might be ww3 and israel would be in major trouble,
Israel or some terrorist will be the first to launch a nuke I was responding to that. You said Palestinians lost their homeland. Which is pretty much false because Israel was there first, and only left due to: The Romans overthrew Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and destroyed the Jewish Temple. The historian Josephus recounts this for us quite well.

The Bible predicts the destruction of the Temple and the scattering of the Jewish people around the globe. It says that they will be a part of every nation on the earth, but will still retain their identity, and will eventually return to their homeland. Despite the fact that a conquered people lose their identity and begin to assimilate within about two generations (ever meet a Moabite, a Caananite, a Sumerian?) the Jewish people have retained their Jewish identity, and after World War II, via a UN resolution and the support of the United States, they returned to their homeland and established the nation of Israel in 1948.

[TheBigUnit]

I was responding to that. You said Palestinians lost their homeland. Which is pretty much false because Israel was there first, and only left due to:

i mean thats true to a degree but really jews really havent lived there for like 1100 like years, i should prob reworded that but really i wouldnt be happy if someone comes to my house regardless if i just moved there or not same with the Palestinians, im just trying to show a diffrent perspective and all

[World Eater]

Well, it's a good thing you get to dictate what qualifies as holy to other people, then.

Oh, wait...

Also, Noirter, that's untrue. We would have bombed the bejeezus out of them if they had a declared intention of nuking Hawaii.

EDIT: to sum up my views on the matter: the terrorist actions taken against Israel are state-sponsored terrorism, which is one of many acceptable justifications for aggressive military response. Civilian targets are a traditionally-acceptable target in war. It sucks, and I don't like it, but that's how it is. Israel is justified.

I was stating my opinion, I wasn't trying to dictate anything.

[CharlieFinley]

I was stating my opinion, I wasn't trying to dictate anything.

You weren't implying the criteria they use for deeming a place holy should be the same as yours?

[World Eater]

You weren't implying the criteria they use for deeming a place holy should be the same as yours?

Now that I look back at my comment I guess I should have rephrased it, so yes I was. I just don't see why some people find it "holy". But if they find it to be "holy" then fine, I have no problem. To each their own...

[CharlieFinley]

We think it's holy because it was home to the most important man to ever live.

[Iron Man]

We think it's holy because it was home to the most important man to ever live.

I had no idea Chuck Norris lived there.

[CharlieFinley]

Cute.

[World Eater]

We think it's holy because it was home to the most important man to ever live.

Most important man to ever live hm? How is he important then? Enlighten me.

[dingo006]

I dont understand why Israel is justified when Israel broke the original informal ceasefire by assassinating Hamas military commander Ahmed Jabari in an air strike.

Israel was in the process of negotiating a permanent ceasefire with Jabari and had worked with him on the past (like in the case of Gilad Shalit).

So i am confused why Israel is justified? I mean I understand that Israel was feeling threatened by a resurgent Hamas and what seems like an unstoppable push to the UN by Palestinians in general. I also understand that Hamas are terrorists.

So are Sinn Fein leaders but the UK seems to be able to work with them fine in Northern Ireland.

So can someone explain to me why its ok when Israel targets and kills a leader of a group they are negotiating with but Hamas is not justified in launching attacks in response?

Am i missing something?

It seems to me that both sides of this conflict are motivated by political reasons so i cannot see calling one side or the other justified.

if you ask me the secret to a 2 state solution is Ehud Barak and Marwan Barghouti (he is kind of like Nelson Mandela ... a formerly violent terrorist turned wildly accepted political leader in prison)

[CharlieFinley]

It seems to me that both sides of this conflict are motivated by political reasons so i cannot see calling one side or the other justified.

So political reasons cannot be justification?

Most important man to ever live hm? How is he important then? Enlighten me.

According to Christianity, he died that we might all be saved. That's awfully important.

[dingo006]

So political reasons cannot be justification?



Netenyahu used a public assassination of someone Israel had worked with and made deals with in the past to trigger an external conflict to help a government strengthen its standing domestically because the public unites behind the army, and social and economic problems get ignored before an election.

Israel has done it before, David Ben-Gurion did it in 1955. Other governments have done it in Operation Grapes of Wrath in Lebanon in 1996, and Operation Cast Lead in Gaza on the eve of the election in 2009.

Israel broke an informal ceasefire that created this last conflict. They used the excuse that Hamas was unable to control small groups in Gaza outside it's organization.

The IDF have said 'Israel needs no justification to strike Hamas'.

Hamas is not free of blame. Hamas’s decision to increase the tempo of rocket attacks at Israeli civilian targets shows their willingness to attack illegitimate Israeli targets. They ignore the attacks of groups by groups like Soldiers of the Monotheism Brigades and al Qaeda in Yemen (AQAP) which are not affilated with Hamas but their attacks on Israel (and the retaliatory strikes that kill them) do nothing but strengthen Hamas.

To say either side is justified in this seems like madness to me. maybe im missing something.

[World Eater]

According to Christianity, he died that we might all be saved. That's awfully important.

...oh wait, I forgot that we were talking about Israel, the home of the Jews...not Christians. So that basically that applies only to Christians.

[CharlieFinley]

Tch you're right. Well Judaism holds that the land in question was promised them by God.

[Haufen]

FYI the cold war was WWIII.


No it wasn't. That's because it wasn't even an actual war. There was no direct confrontation between the USA and the USSR, it was a weapons race and small conflicts through proxy nations. Hell, there wasn't even any state of war because there never was a declaration of war between the USA/NATO and the USSR. That's why it's called the cold war.
The guns were cold.

[MichaelJ]

Hi
yes I do think they are can you image living in such a rough neighbourhood after so many peace efforts.
Extremists want to destroy Israel and this is evident through hams who fire rockets constantly at Israel, Hezbollah who call for our destruction and Iran who denies the holocaust and calls for Israel to be wiped off the map

[deadpie]

http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/192642682_2fea4cce66_o.jpg

http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/192642683_915cc8eda3_o.jpg

http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/192642681_c4903905bd_o.jpg

israeli children sign bombs yay let's kill Palestinian children totally justified get off of our holy land!!! lolxD!!! man i love humanity so much

[StoppingTime]

image (http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/192642682_2fea4cce66_o.jpg)

image (http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/192642683_915cc8eda3_o.jpg)

image (http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/192642681_c4903905bd_o.jpg)

israeli children sign bombs yay let's kill Palestinian children totally justified get off of our holy land!!! lolxD!!! man i love humanity so much

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2006/jul/20/missilespostin

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that this is exactly what happened: children writing on missiles to attack Lebanese children. And, assuming they did write on them, it's unlikely they knew how they were going to be used.
But regardless, Israel doesn't aim for Palestinian children; they aim for military targets who set up in areas where civilians live, essentially using them as human shields.

[deadpie]

And, assuming they did write on them, it's unlikely they knew how they were going to be used.

I think if you were writing a bomb you're going to know what's going to probably happen to that bomb. It's not going to sit there with pretty flags drawn on it and shit then hang up in an art gallery. No, it's going to kill people. Even children can be smart enough to know what a bomb does.

BIsrael doesn't aim for Palestinian children; they aim for military targets who set up in areas where civilians live, essentially using them as human shields.

Either way you're still going to end up killing children. Do you know how much damage Israel inflicts compared to what anyone else inflicts? In the end it's a matter of "fuck you i was here first".

[StoppingTime]

I think if you were writing a bomb you're going to know what's going to probably happen to that bomb. It's not going to sit there with pretty flags drawn on it and shit then hang up in an art gallery. No, it's going to kill people. Even children can be smart enough to know what a bomb does.


True, but they wouldn't necessarily know that it would be hitting innocent civilians -- children for that matter.


Either way you're still going to end up killing children.

So they shouldn't fight because of this? Israel doesn't aim for children. Hamas aims for Israeli schools, if I'm not mistaken.


Do you know how much damage Israel inflicts compared to what anyone else inflicts? In the end it's a matter of "fuck you i was here first".

I'm not sure that those images depict what Israel is fighting for in specific. Yes, it's an incredibly disturbing image -- there's no question. But the reason that Israel "inflicts so much damage" on Gaza compared to how much damage Gaza does to them (assuming that's what you were comparing), it's because Israel it prepared for rocket strikes and attacks. Hamas doesn't care whether their civilian population is safe in the same way Israel does.

[deadpie]

True, but they wouldn't necessarily know that it would be hitting innocent civilians -- children for that matter.

So when you look at a bomb you think, "oh yeah this is gonna kill the bad guys only" or something like that? Like nobody that's innocent is going to be harmed?

So they shouldn't fight because of this? Israel doesn't aim for children. Hamas aims for Israeli schools, if I'm not mistaken.

Ye, they did cause three school bus incidents. Hamas is not for a peace treaty with Israel and Palestinians. They also do not represent all of the Palestinians.

[StoppingTime]

So when you look at a bomb you think, "oh yeah this is gonna kill the bad guys only" or something like that? Like nobody that's innocent is going to be harmed?


Do I? No. Is it possible that the children in Israel don't know exactly who is killed over the boarder? Yes, but you're correct, it's unlikely.
I think they do know, however, that Israeli rockets are not aiming for innocent people. This doesn't mean that civilians aren't killed, but it's an important idea to understand, because I think most people see Israel as this ruthless country killing children to get revenge.


Ye, they did cause three school bus incidents. Hamas is not for a peace treaty with Israel and Palestinians. They also do not represent all of the Palestinians.

But unfortunately, they are the ones who are in control of Gaza at the moment.

[deadpie]

I think most people see Israel as this ruthless country killing children to get revenge.

All countries that kill are ruthless killing machines period. Yeah I'm a peace loving hippie that ones people to stop killing each other deal with it.

[StoppingTime]

All countries that kill are ruthless killing machines period. Yeah I'm a peace loving hippie that ones people to stop killing each other deal with it.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/images/GifGuide/DealWithIt/obamadealwithit_gif.gif

Anyway :P

__________________________________________________________

I see your point here, I suppose. But Israel isn't necessarily out to kill civilians to achieve their goal. Are they out to kill military targets and leaders? Yes. And by your standards (which I agree with, mostly), that would a ruthless murder, so..

[Jean Poutine]

But regardless, Israel doesn't aim for Palestinian children; they aim for military targets who set up in areas where civilians live, essentially using them as human shields.


Where's the Israeli Defense Ministry? Out there in the Negev?

Gotta love the IDF trying to overturn a court ruling telling them using Palestinian civilians to open packages suspected of being bombs or having them walk in front of IDF platoons is illegal.

Israel doesn't aim for Palestinian children, that's true. They don't aim, period. The IDF has used cluster artillery munition in residential neighborhoods. For all their technology, the IDF sometimes really has a lead foot when it comes to stepping on the proverbial bomb pedal.

There's nothing wrong with Israel in and of itself. They're there now, just as Europeans are in America and the natives, however much they may want to, can't get us to pack our shit and leave. Israel is democratic-ish, but even with that last particle, that's a far cry from being like 95% of the countries in the vicinity. The problem with Israel is Netanyahu. He's running side by side with the crazies in Yisrael Beiteinu next election. He's more than a hardliner, he's a waste of space, a reactionary, a kneejerk populist.

On the other hand, Hamas is a ruthless, disgusting organization, that does willingly aim for civilians, that does conduct terror campaigns, and that does not only fuck over Israel, but also its own citizens by denying them basic human rights like due process. Collaborators with the Israelis are shot in the streets and left to rot.

Hamas is a turd burger while Israel is one of those shitty McDonalds ones. I'd rather have a delicious, juicy burger made from Kobe beef and fine French cheese and tons of prime cut bacon, but between eating a patty made of shit and one merely low-quality beef cut with a lot of oatmeal or whatever they use to bolster their patties, I'll eat the McDo burger any day.

If you let Hamas win, you'll just get another Islamic Democratic Republic of Shitistan where Palestinians are oppressed, burdened and fucked over even more than they are now. Let Israel have the land and in exchange throw out Netanyahu for a moderate reformist and strike down every advantage the Jews have in Israel. Whether Jewish or Muslim, states based on religion suck. Israel has the potential of being an island of rationality in a really crappy part of the world, where everybody coexists peacefully, but they're squandering that opportunity by bending down to Orthodox Jews and those YB scum.

Scrap the settlements and just build homes for everyone, and give Muslim pupils the same amount of money as Jewish ones. Scrap the IDF requirement for jobs meaning that a lot of Muslims can't even get employed. Scrap the "Jewish State" shit. Scrap the bombs and the "we must wipe out Israel" and the "this is our land". Scrap shari'a and battei din and all this useless shit.

No ethnicity has a premium on land. Quebec City isn't my land, neither is Rouen in France where a lot of my ancestors come from, or Fribourg in Switzerland where a bunch more of my family is from, or Wherever, Scotland, or Nirgends, Germany, or...this goes on. Israel and Palestine aren't either Jewish or Muslim. Land has no ethnicity or religion (btw Jews stop mixing both it makes you look like retards. People can stop being Jewish.) It's just land and it doesn't matter who's God promised what to whom. The notion of "homeland" is an intellectual shortcut, so is "we were there first" or "we actually used it".

Cut the crap, unite Israel and Palestine in a completely secular state that isn't either Jewish or Muslim, but both and neither at the same time. Cohabitation builds acceptance. That would be the optimal outcome.

[CharlieFinley]

All countries that kill are ruthless killing machines period. Yeah I'm a peace loving hippie that ones people to stop killing each other deal with it.

Fuck the U.S., then. We've been a ruthless killing machine since birth. How dare we want things like independence?

[deadpie]

Fuck the U.S., then. We've been a ruthless killing machine since birth. How dare we want things like independence?

No, Fuck humanity, not just the U.S. You've got it all wrong kid. We either should have world peace or everyone should die at the same time.

[Magical]

But regardless, Israel doesn't aim for Palestinian children; they aim for military targets who set up in areas where civilians live, essentially using them as human shields.

How big is Palestine? 6,220 square kilometres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine). How many people like there? A bit over 4,019,400 as of 2011 (http://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:WBG&dl=en&hl=en&q=population%20of%20palestine). Let's assume 4,200,000. What's the population density? ~675 people per square kilometre. The country is too small for the military to set up anywhere else.


So they shouldn't fight because of this? Israel doesn't aim for children. Hamas aims for Israeli schools, if I'm not mistaken.

You're wrong. Israel's government is full of assholes. They do aim for schools (http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-crimes-against-humanity-targeting-palestinian-children-with-pinpoint-accuracy/5313293), they do aim for children (http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-crimes-against-humanity-targeting-palestinian-children-with-pinpoint-accuracy/5313293).
Palestine, on the other hand, can not aim for anything. They do not have the technology to aim other than by eye.


I'm not sure that those images depict what Israel is fighting for in specific. Yes, it's an incredibly disturbing image -- there's no question. But the reason that Israel "inflicts so much damage" on Gaza compared to how much damage Gaza does to them (assuming that's what you were comparing), it's because Israel it prepared for rocket strikes and attacks. Hamas doesn't care whether their civilian population is safe in the same way Israel does.

Israel has the technology to be prepared for rocket strikes, Palestine does not. Israel also has much better aim, Palestine is just randomly shooting. Care is not a factor.

[StoppingTime]

How big is Palestine? 6,220 square kilometres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine). How many people like there? A bit over 4,019,400 as of 2011 (http://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:WBG&dl=en&hl=en&q=population%20of%20palestine). Let's assume 4,200,000. What's the population density? ~675 people per square kilometre. The country is too small for the military to set up anywhere else.


Right, make excuses for them. Okay.


You're wrong. Israel's government is full of assholes. They do aim for schools (http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-crimes-against-humanity-targeting-palestinian-children-with-pinpoint-accuracy/5313293), they do aim for children (http://www.globalresearch.ca/israeli-crimes-against-humanity-targeting-palestinian-children-with-pinpoint-accuracy/5313293).
Palestine, on the other hand, can not aim for anything. They do not have the technology to aim other than by eye.

Why, what reliable sites you provide! (http://web.archive.org/web/20110429193700/http://www.jewishtribune.ca/tribune/jt-050825-05.html)
They have questioned the Holocaust, think 9/11 was an inside job, etc.. But sure, use that site to provide creditable information.


Israel has the technology to be prepared for rocket strikes, Palestine does not. Israel also has much better aim, Palestine is just randomly shooting. Care is not a factor.

Wait, what?
oh don't worry everyone, you can't blame Hamas for shooting at Israeli civilians, they just don't have good aim. Right.

[CharlieFinley]

No, Fuck humanity, not just the U.S. You've got it all wrong kid. We either should have world peace or everyone should die at the same time.What purpose would that serve?

How big is Palestine? 6,220 square kilometres (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine). How many people like there? A bit over 4,019,400 as of 2011 (http://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:WBG&dl=en&hl=en&q=population%20of%20palestine). Let's assume 4,200,000. What's the population density? ~675 people per square kilometre. The country is too small for the military to set up anywhere else.
That's completely inaccurate. You act like the people are uniformly distributed, but they most emphatically are not.


[quote]Israel has the technology to be prepared for rocket strikes, Palestine does not. Israel also has much better aim, Palestine is just randomly shooting. Care is not a factor.
Oh, right. Because being at a disadvantage means it's okay for you to attack someone and it means they can't retaliate. I must have missed that lesson in POLI 150.

[Aajj333]

If this were to happen it would start 3rd World Countries War III