Why Do You Believe?

[InfamousPanda]

I don't belive in God. Actually, im not quite sure what to believe. I want to know why YOU personally belive in God. I know some people who believe just because thats how they were raised. I don't think theres any proof, or any reasoning that iv heard that shows that theres a God, and i wont have faith in nothing. Im not asking you to make me belive, i just want to know why you believe. I wont make fun of people for being really religous, if you were worried about that ._.

[Lost in the Echo]

Well I went through a phase of not believing, i'm still not sure I completely believe in god, but now I kinda do.
My reasoning for this is the paranormal ( spirits/ghosts ), it may be a stupid reason, but I believe that since it's proven that spirits exist, and people have claimed to see angels and even demons, so if that kind of shit can exist, why can't god?

Also, probably nobody will be able to prove or disprove if there is a god or not, all we have are beliefs.

But atheists have been disproven before, i'm not to sure about them, but usually they don't believe in things considered to be "unatural' like spirits, but it has been proven that spirits DO exist.

So people can believe whatever they want, but i'd have to say I currently do believe just because paranormal shit is real, and since that is real, it would make sense that god is real too.

[Gigablue]

Well I went through a phase of not believing, i'm still not sure I completely believe in god, but now I kinda do.
My reasoning for this is the paranormal ( spirits/ghosts ), it may be a stupid reason, but I believe that since it's proven that spirits exist, and people have claimed to see angels and even demons, so if that kind of shit can exist, why can't god?

Also, probably nobody will be able to prove or disprove if there is a god or not, all we have are beliefs.

But atheists have been disproven before, i'm not to sure about them, but usually they don't believe in things considered to be "unatural' like spirits, but it has been proven that spirits DO exist.

So people can believe whatever they want, but i'd have to say I currently do believe just because paranormal shit is real, and since that is real, it would make sense that god is real too.

When were spirits ever proven to exist?

[KillerKing]

When were spirits ever proven to exist?

Yeah? When could we prove that supernatural entities like Spirits existed?!?!?!?!?!

:confused::confused::confused::confused:

[Jess]

When were spirits ever proven to exist?

Exactly my thoughts.

[Lost in the Echo]

When were spirits ever proven to exist?

Well a lot of historical landmarks like Gettysburg, Pennsylvania where the "battle of Gettysburg" took place, are haunted.
It has been proven because people have been on that land that the war took place and they have caught spirits and paranormal shit on camera.
There are a lot of documentaries you can watch, the ones that seem legit are "My Ghost Story" "Ghost Adventures" and "Ghost Hunters", i've seen a lot of those and the paranormal things you see on there seem legit and are facts that spirits exist.

Believe what you want, but another very haunted place is "Alcatraz", which is a place located in the San Francisco Bay, which is best known for the "Alcatraz federal penitintiary" and most of the prisoners there were notorious murderers and bank robbers and shit like that, Alcatraz has been a place that a lot of paranormal investigators have found a lot of activity from spirits, and it looks scary as hell.
So like I said, believe whatever you want to believe, but if anyone Atheist or not was to stay a night at the Gettysburg battlefield or at the Alcatraz penitintiary by themselves for a full night, it would scare the fuck out of them.
What i've seen on documentaries of the paranormal is enough to convince me that it's real.

[TheBigUnit]

Well saying u believe in ghosts really isn't a valid reason, I personally am religious to a degree, kind of like a moderate, I don't go to peoples doors, I don't shout at street corners and I personally think people out there that does that are idiots, people striving for a one "christian" nation are complete idiots especially since the Bible rules agaist stuff like that of a unified church and state,
Atheists really amaze me on how they know more about the Bible than most christians, I personally believe sort of a middle like how einstein believes in God (called panatheist right?) and a personal God, the fact of the matter is, is that the reason why I believe is because I feel there is something out there, I've seen astrophysists become pastor heck even my physics teacher is a devout christian and I live near philadelphia so there isn't any deep south "virtues", they say that it seems when you get to the base of an atom the speed of an electron and such is placed at such presision that any disturbance to it the entire atom collaspes and destruction everywhere you'll have to google the full explanation, also there many more reasons I can give but I feel like I already wasted enough of your time unless someone requests me to state my reasons, I guess in the bottom line I was raised a christian and prob will die as a christian, we will never kno the right answer

[Sleepy Raisin]

When were spirits ever proven to exist?

2007

Prof. F. J. Tipler published a paper on the theory demonstrating that the laws of Physics(i.e. Second law of thermodynamics, General relativity,Quantum mechanics, And standard model of particle physics) require that the universe end in Omega Point- the Omega Point exists as supremely complex and conscious, transcendent and independent of the evolving universe. In other words God.
Now im not saying that this definition of God is the right one, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and this is conclusive evidence of God who is infact spirit. Spirits were proved to exist.

[Gigablue]

How exactly do you define spirit? I want to make sure. We're talking about the same thing.

Well a lot of historical landmarks like Gettysburg, Pennsylvania where the "battle of Gettysburg" took place, are haunted.
It has been proven because people have been on that land that the war took place and they have caught spirits and paranormal shit on camera.

People have caught blurry images and very low quality videos. Nothing that is conclusively paranormal. There are many more likely explanations for this than spirits haunting the area.

There are a lot of documentaries you can watch, the ones that seem legit are "My Ghost Story" "Ghost Adventures" and "Ghost Hunters", i've seen a lot of those and the paranormal things you see on there seem legit and are facts that spirits exist.

I haven't seen any ghost shows that are convincing. It seems that in every episode, people go to a "haunted" place, then make vague statements about what the feel and invent plausible stories about the ghost. They don't have specific criteria for a ghost, nor do they test hypotheses, or apply sound logic.

Believe what you want, but another very haunted place is "Alcatraz", which is a place located in the San Francisco Bay, which is best known for the "Alcatraz federal penitentiary" and most of the prisoners there were notorious murderers and bank robbers and shit like that, Alcatraz has been a place that a lot of paranormal investigators have found a lot of activity from spirits, and it looks scary as hell.

It's not surprising that an old prison is scary. That doesn't mean it's haunted. Also, most of the people who investigate these hauntings have a foregone conclusion that there are ghosts haunting the area. It would be far more impressive if it were replicated by impartial researchers.

2007
Prof. F. J. Tipler published a paper on the theory demonstrating that the laws of Physics(i.e. Second law of thermodynamics, General relativity,Quantum mechanics, And standard model of particle physics) require that the universe end in Omega Point- the Omega Point exists as supremely complex and conscious, transcendent and independent of the evolving universe. In other words God.
Now im not saying that this definition of God is the right one, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and this is conclusive evidence of God who is infact spirit. Spirits were proved to exist.

Can you give a link to the paper. Everything I've found by him seems to just take observations of nature and then unnecessarily invoke god.

Also, you say everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't think this is a matter of opinion, however. There is either a god, or there isn't. People are entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts.

[Lost in the Echo]

How exactly do you define spirit? I want to make sure. We're talking about the same thing.

I define spirit as "paranormal entity"

People have caught blurry images and very low quality videos. Nothing that is conclusively paranormal. There are many more likely explanations for this than spirits haunting the area.

Yeah, but that doesn't explain every single ghost video now does it?


I haven't seen any ghost shows that are convincing. It seems that in every episode, people go to a "haunted" place, then make vague statements about what the feel and invent plausible stories about the ghost. They don't have specific criteria for a ghost, nor do they test hypotheses, or apply sound logic.

I think this was ghost hunters, but somebody was pulled out of a fucking bed before when nobody else couldv'e been there to do it.

It's not surprising that an old prison is scary. That doesn't mean it's haunted. Also, most of the people who investigate these hauntings have a foregone conclusion that there are ghosts haunting the area. It would be far more impressive if it were replicated by impartial researchers.

It has been before, i'm sure that impartial researchers have gone to Alcatraz before and gotten scared shitless, i'm positive you could find a video of impartial researches examining Alcatraz for spirits.

[Sir Suomi]

Personally, I think it's the fact that I don't believe that all that man is supposed to do is just live your life, and die. There's got to be more than that, right? That's why I believe in God. I believe that even though the road may be rough, he has a plan for me, and it's up to me if I want to follow it or not. He helps guide me through life, and helps me in times of need. Also, not having a father, I also look towards God as a fatherly figure, and I try, emphasis on try, to try and live like him. It's a hard life to life, but the rewards are beyond all comparison. I think that sums it up right there.

[Gigablue]

Yeah, but that doesn't explain every single ghost video now does it?

I think this was ghost hunters, but somebody was pulled out of a fucking bed before when nobody else could've been there to do it.

It has been before, i'm sure that impartial researchers have gone to Alcatraz before and gotten scared shitless, i'm positive you could find a video of impartial researches examining Alcatraz for spirits.

This still doesn't prove that spirits exist. In order to prove it, you would have to do a well controlled experiment, with a well defined hypothesis and definition of a ghost. This would then have to be repeated independently. Ghost videos are nothing but anecdotes, which aren't scientifically valid.

Personally, I think it's the fact that I don't believe that all that man is supposed to do is just live your life, and die. There's got to be more than that, right? That's why I believe in God. I believe that even though the road may be rough, he has a plan for me, and it's up to me if I want to follow it or not. He helps guide me through life, and helps me in times of need.

I don't see why there has to be some meaning to life. Everything makes much more sense when you consider that there might not be one. I think that if there is someone with a plan for humanity, they are incompetent. The world is filled with so much pointless pain and suffering. If you believe in a god, you have to believe in a god who doesn't intervene to prevent suffering.

[Sir Suomi]

I don't see why there has to be some meaning to life. Everything makes much more sense when you consider that there might not be one. I think that if there is someone with a plan for humanity, they are incompetent. The world is filled with so much pointless pain and suffering. If you believe in a god, you have to believe in a god who doesn't intervene to prevent suffering.

But what is the point in living without a higher purpose, a goal in life to achieve? I suppose some people are content with just living their lives, day by day, just counting off the days until their death. But I don't want that. I want to have a goal to strive for, the ultimate challenge for my life. And as a believer in God, I have a chance to do that. Also, on a side note, it's the fact that I think people that believe in God can live happier lives. Now, is this true for everyone? No. Many other people of other religions or atheists can live good lives. But with believing in God, you need faith. If you try looking for scientific evidence, you will find nothing. But if you look at the evidence at how people's lives can be changed by Christ, can you not say that having faith is something more people should strive for? Feel free to disagree if you want.

[Gigablue]

But what is the point in living without a higher purpose, a goal in life to achieve? I suppose some people are content with just living their lives, day by day, just counting off the days until their death. But I don't want that. I want to have a goal to strive for, the ultimate challenge for my life. And as a believer in God, I have a chance to do that. Also, on a side note, it's the fact that I think people that believe in God can live happier lives. Now, is this true for everyone? No. Many other people of other religions or atheists can live good lives.

I think that the fact that there is no higher purpose makes life all the more valuable. If we can live forever, why would 80 or so years on earth matter. I think that all we can do is try to be happy and make other happy before our death, after which we cease to exist. Even without a god, you can still have goals in life.

But with believing in God, you need faith. If you try looking for scientific evidence, you will find nothing. But if you look at the evidence at how people's lives can be changed by Christ, can you not say that having faith is something more people should strive for? Feel free to disagree if you want.

How can you find out what's true without science. All religions are equally unproven, and most are mutually exclusive, therefore any could be accepted on faith. There is no way to find out which is more accurate without using science. Faith is basically the opposite of science, since it requires accepting a conclusion without proof.

[TheBigUnit]

I think that the fact that there is no higher purpose makes life all the more valuable. If we can live forever, why would 80 or so years on earth matter. I think that all we can do is try to be happy and make other happy before our death, after which we cease to exist. Even without a god, you can still have goals in life.



How can you find out what's true without science. All religions are equally unproven, and most are mutually exclusive, therefore any could be accepted on faith. There is no way to find out which is more accurate without using science. Faith is basically the opposite of science, since it requires accepting a conclusion without proof.

Science is always changing not faith

[PinkFloyd]

Well i wouldnt call myself a "devoted Christian" because i rarelt go inside a church. But i have heard a lot of stories about how people that died in the operation room rose up and met Peter and everything. They were sent back to earth because it "wasnt their time." I know you cant belive everything you read but ive heard at least 5 counts of this.

[Gigablue]

Science is always changing not faith

That's a good thing. When science discovers new information, it changes its stance in on issue. This ensures that it is always as accurate as possible.

Well i wouldnt call myself a "devoted Christian" because i rarelt go inside a church. But i have heard a lot of stories about how people that died in the operation room rose up and met Peter and everything. They were sent back to earth because it "wasnt their time." I know you cant belive everything you read but ive heard at least 5 counts of this.

This does happen, but there is a simple explanation for this. When people are close to death, the brain is deprived of oxygen and starts to hallucinate. This can produce profound religious experiences. If one religion were correct, everyone would have the same near death experiences. However, Christians have Christian near death experiences, Muslims have Muslim near death experiences, etc. this suggests that these experiences are a result of brain phenomena and cultural influence.

[Sir Suomi]

I think that the fact that there is no higher purpose makes life all the more valuable. If we can live forever, why would 80 or so years on earth matter. I think that all we can do is try to be happy and make other happy before our death, after which we cease to exist. Even without a god, you can still have goals in life.

Actually, it's the opposite. The time we have on earth IS valuable. Only He know's when our times coming. So I think we should value our time on earth, and make a difference, so that you can spend an eternity with God. If you chose to believe otherwise, that's your decision, but that's what I think about my life on earth.

How can you find out what's true without science. All religions are equally unproven, and most are mutually exclusive, therefore any could be accepted on faith. There is no way to find out which is more accurate without using science. Faith is basically the opposite of science, since it requires accepting a conclusion without proof.

See, that's why everyone doesn't believe in some religions. They need to have proof that something exists. There is nothing wrong with this, and in fact, it can inspire many people to discover great things. But it's faith that you have to have to be able to believe in God. Here's a simple example: The wind. We can't see it, yet we can sense that it's there from the effects we see, whether it's a tree branch swaying, or your hair starting to fly. With God, we can't get a telescope and see Him sitting up in the clouds. But we can sense He's there, from personal touches, to how He helps out people in everyday life. That's as simple as I can put it :yes:

[Gigablue]

Actually, it's the opposite. The time we have on earth IS valuable. Only He know's when our times coming. So I think we should value our time on earth, and make a difference, so that you can spend an eternity with God. If you chose to believe otherwise, that's your decision, but that's what I think about my life on earth.

But if you get to live eternally, why do these brief years on earth matter at all?

See, that's why everyone doesn't believe in some religions. They need to have proof that something exists. There is nothing wrong with this, and in fact, it can inspire many people to discover great things. But it's faith that you have to have to be able to believe in God. Here's a simple example: The wind. We can't see it, yet we can sense that it's there from the effects we see, whether it's a tree branch swaying, or your hair starting to fly. With God, we can't get a telescope and see Him sitting up in the clouds. But we can sense He's there, from personal touches, to how He helps out people in everyday life. That's as simple as I can put it :yes:

This isn't really a good analogy. We can study the wind, and by assuming that wind exists, we can make predictions which are later confirmed. You can't do the same thing with a god. There isn't a study that can be done to prove, or more importantly disprove, a god. Therefore the idea is unscientific.

[Sir Suomi]

But if you get to live eternally, why do these brief years on earth matter at all?

Because these brief years on earth is what defines who we are by what we do.

This isn't really a good analogy. We can study the wind, and by assuming that wind exists, we can make predictions which are later confirmed. You can't do the same thing with a god. There isn't a study that can be done to prove, or more importantly disprove, a god. Therefore the idea is unscientific.

I was using that as like a general explanation. Act as if you were from a period of time that we didn't have the tools to study wind.

[ayelove100]

I don't belive in God. Actually, im not quite sure what to believe. I want to know why YOU personally belive in God. I know some people who believe just because thats how they were raised. I don't think theres any proof, or any reasoning that iv heard that shows that theres a God, and i wont have faith in nothing. Im not asking you to make me belive, i just want to know why you believe. I wont make fun of people for being really religous, if you were worried about that ._.

My best friend turned out to be muslim and she is soo awsome. She one day asked me if i wanted to go to the mosque with her and i learned soo much about the religion of Islam. This religion makes soo much sense and i would recommend anyone to look into it instead of just saying bad things about the religion. Why don't u believe in god?! Who else created our soles and mind?! Not everything is science, because if it were then why can't you find out were the soul is and how to live forever. What happens in your life today (our very short life) determines our afterlife that we never die in. When you do good deeds you will go to heaven. And vise versa. This short life is like a test, if you go with the devil and do what they do then you will end up with them in hell. I recommend to look into the muslim religion because it will answer all your questions....and if u have any questions just ask me. Also go on online islamic sites that are in English. You'll understand a lot there, but there are sites that are unreliable so watch out.;)

[WickedWeekend]

I believe in God because I was raised that way and I believe myself to have proof of the Son rising. I'm not going to present an argument because every time I debate my faith someone ends up hurt.

[Sleepy Raisin]

Can you give a link to the paper. Everything I've found by him seems to just take observations of nature and then unnecessarily invoke god.

Also, you say everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't think this is a matter of opinion, however. There is either a god, or there isn't. People are entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts.

Certainly.
link1:
http://voices.yahoo.com/god-proven-exist-according-mainline-physics-5012120.html
link to his paper:
http://129.81.170.14/~tipler/theoryofeverything.pdf

and that's not what I said. I was talking about that everyone is entitled to their own opinion about God, not whether or not God is real. But not everyone sees God the same, is what i meant.

[Jess]

My best friend turned out to be muslim and she is soo awsome. She one day asked me if i wanted to go to the mosque with her and i learned soo much about the religion of Islam. This religion makes soo much sense and i would recommend anyone to look into it instead of just saying bad things about the religion.

Why does Islam make sense?

Why don't u believe in god?! Who else created our soles and mind?!

There's no actual proof for a god (and also, so what if the OP does not believe in a god?); and why do you think our souls and minds were "created"?

Not everything is science, because if it were then why can't you find out were the soul is and how to live forever.

I don't understand this...what does science have to do with finding what the soul is (which I personally don't believe in)...and how to live forever? I believe we've already found an "immortality" gene in a jellyfish but it's not currently possible for a human to live forever.

What happens in your life today (our very short life) determines our afterlife that we never die in. When you do good deeds you will go to heaven. And vise versa.

You don't have to do good deeds just so you can go to "heaven"...how do you know heaven actually exists? When we die, we die. We cease to exist.

[ayelove100]

Why does Islam make sense?



There's no actual proof for a god (and also, so what if the OP does not believe in a god?); and why do you think our souls and minds were "created"?



I don't understand this...what does science have to do with finding what the soul is (which I personally don't believe in)...and how to live forever? I believe we've already found an "immortality" gene in a jellyfish but it's not currently possible for a human to live forever.



You don't have to do good deeds just so you can go to "heaven"...how do you know heaven actually exists? When we die, we die. We cease to exist.

Obviously, you haven't looked into the religion because if you did then you would get what i mean by makes sense. How do u believe this world became. Someone must have created it and thats God. If you don't believe people in the future one day you will believe it. And what i mean is that people dont believe in god sometimes and believe that this word deveoped through science. It will never ever be possible for a human to live foreveer. Part of life is dying. Believe what you want, but when you die theres an afterlife. Your soul is living but your body is not. If you have anymore question look at this website or feel free to private message me. http://www.beconvinced.com/archive/en/main.php This website will help you.

[Jess]

Obviously, you haven't looked into the religion because if you did then you would get what i mean by makes sense. How do u believe this world became. Someone must have created it and thats God. If you don't believe people in the future one day you will believe it. And what i mean is that people dont believe in god sometimes and believe that this word deveoped through science. It will never ever be possible for a human to live foreveer. Part of life is dying. Believe what you want, but when you die theres an afterlife. Your soul is living but your body is not. If you have anymore question look at this website or feel free to private message me. http://www.beconvinced.com/archive/en/main.php This website will help you.

I have looked at religion, and it makes no sense to me. It's never made sense. Religion was created centuries ago to explain things we couldn't explain, like lightning. Now we have science.

I don't believe the world was created. I think the world came about more likely by the Big Bang than a god (and where did THAT god come from) deciding to create our world.

How do you know there's an afterlife? Have you been to one and came back?

Believe what you want. I just don't believe in a god, or an afterlife. And never will.

[Lost in the Echo]

Alright everybody, enough of the bickering back and forth and shit.

None of us know what will truly happen when we die, we will have an afterlife? possibly.
Will we just cease to exist and rot in the ground? maybe.

But stop acting like you know what happens after we die, because nobody does, all we have are beliefs of what we THINK will happen.

Also, the bitching about religion going on won't solve anything, because you're not going to convert an Atheist to a Christian/Muslim person who believes in god without proof, and proof that an afterlife does or doresn't exist has not been proven.

So lets all just agree to disagree.

[Jess]

Alright everybody, enough of the bickering back and forth and shit.

None of us know what will truly happen when we die, we will have an afterlife? possibly.
Will we just cease to exist and rot in the ground? maybe.

But stop acting like you know what happens after we die, because nobody does, all we have are beliefs of what we THINK will happen.

Also, the bitching about religion going on won't solve anything, because you're not going to convert an Atheist to a Christian/Muslim person who believes in god without proof, and proof that an afterlife does or doresn't exist has not been proven.

So lets all just agree to disagree.

We're not bickering, we're debating.

[Castle of Glass]

i am christian and i have read the bible from cover to cover(super boring at some parts), but i still apply logic and science. also i am not a devoted christian, actually i have never met a devoted christian from finland, just the way we are. but i believe in God, Jesus, Angels, spirits, and all of that, because firstly no one can prove with hard fact the God and Jesus exist. that is a belief, and that is why i believe in it. I believe in angels, spirits, demons, and all of that, because well, it is quite a long story. I believe in angels, as they are your guardians. when i was younger, i was in the forest and i saw a bear. the bear would have attacked me if not a wolf would have attacked the bear. was quite a sight, but ever since that, i believe that wolves are my guardian angels and my guides.

but at the same time i trust science. but there are times where ancient tribal rituals work better than medicine. Like lets say two events happen, event a and event b. in event a, a person is hurt and gets saved by a man made medicine. if that happens i know that science if useful. but in event b, a person is sweeped out to sea for two weeks. after the two weeks, he is found at the same beach, alive, but weak. as there was no science to help him, i know that it was a supernatural being, so God. but i cannot explain more than this.

[ayelove100]

I have looked at religion, and it makes no sense to me. It's never made sense. Religion was created centuries ago to explain things we couldn't explain, like lightning. Now we have science.

I don't believe the world was created. I think the world came about more likely by the Big Bang than a god (and where did THAT god come from) deciding to create our world.

How do you know there's an afterlife? Have you been to one and came back?

Believe what you want. I just don't believe in a god, or an afterlife. And never will.

So be it but you will regret it. Were did the big bang come from????? Someone has to have created all this and the religion does make sense its just you probably didn't read anything about it. :whoops: And if you have questions like these (the same way i did) go to a mosque and ask the guy that runs the place there. I asked them all these questions and they convinced me and i converted right away. Why do you think there is a purpose to living???? To live life??? Well not really the purpose to living is its kind of like a test. The purpose to living and minimizing your sins is so you can iternely live in the afterlife either in hell or heaven. If you read the Quran that is translated or ask someone who can translate it for you, those are Gods words and its not changed by human the same way the bible is. It says everything and many scientist converted to Islam when they read it and found out that many things the Quran says is true. Especially in science. :) There are also many celebrities that have converted to islam. Search about it if you want. Also arent you like young because you still have a pretty long life ahead of you and during time you might change your mind. :)

[Jess]

So be it but you will regret it. Were did the big bang come from????? Someone has to have created all this and the religion does make sense its just you probably didn't read anything about it. :whoops: And if you have questions like these (the same way i did) go to a mosque and ask the guy that runs the place there. I asked them all these questions and they convinced me and i converted right away. Why do you think there is a purpose to living???? To live life??? Well not really the purpose to living is its kind of like a test. The purpose to living and minimizing your sins is so you can iternely live in the afterlife either in hell or heaven. If you read the Quran that is translated or ask someone who can translate it for you, those are Gods words and its not changed by human the same way the bible is. It says everything and many scientist converted to Islam when they read it and found out that many things the Quran says is true. Especially in science. :) There are also many celebrities that have converted to islam. Search about it if you want. Also arent you like young because you still have a pretty long life ahead of you and during time you might change your mind. :)

Why would I regret it? I'm happy to leave the nonsense world of religion...

As for the Big Bang Theory, I'll admit I have no idea how it started and such. But it certainly does make more sense than religion's views. But I don't believe everything were all "created". And again, maybe religion makes sense to you, but it never has and never will for me. Religion offers no proof, while science does. Think how you want, but I don't think that's the purpose to living. I don't believe in "sins". And again, I believe in no afterlife - there's no heaven and hell.

I don't see how the Quran is God's word any more than the Bible.

Where did you see that many scientists convert to Islam? Sorry, but I just don't believe that. Can you provide examples about the things the Quran says is true? What are they?

Yeah sure I have a pretty long life ahead of me. But I'm not going to change my mind (or beliefs). Sorry.

[ayelove100]

Why would I regret it? I'm happy to leave the nonsense world of religion...

As for the Big Bang Theory, I'll admit I have no idea how it started and such. But it certainly does make more sense than religion's views. But I don't believe everything were all "created". And again, maybe religion makes sense to you, but it never has and never will for me. Religion offers no proof, while science does. Think how you want, but I don't think that's the purpose to living. I don't believe in "sins". And again, I believe in no afterlife - there's no heaven and hell.

I don't see how the Quran is God's word any more than the Bible.

Where did you see that many scientists convert to Islam? Sorry, but I just don't believe that. Can you provide examples about the things the Quran says is true? What are they?

Yeah sure I have a pretty long life ahead of me. But I'm not going to change my mind (or beliefs). Sorry.

Look I can provide many examples to you, and many examples of scientist that converted. But you honestly havent read the website provided. I also never said anything of the bible being less than the Quran. Its just the bible has gotten adjustments from humans while the quran has stayed the same for a long time. :) Ill write more about this later because it will take me long time. In addition i just converted so i only know the basics. But i am very glad i converted and im sure that other people that convert will too. A fact is that about 20,000 americans convert to islam each year. Compared to the billions that live in america it quite a decent amount. If people want to go on with their life thinking the way you do so be it. Just don't judge peoples beliefs in Islam. :)

Alright everybody, enough of the bickering back and forth and shit.

None of us know what will truly happen when we die, we will have an afterlife? possibly.
Will we just cease to exist and rot in the ground? maybe.

But stop acting like you know what happens after we die, because nobody does, all we have are beliefs of what we THINK will happen.

Also, the bitching about religion going on won't solve anything, because you're not going to convert an Atheist to a Christian/Muslim person who believes in god without proof, and proof that an afterlife does or doresn't exist has not been proven.

So lets all just agree to disagree.

Yeah ur pretty right for the most part.....

Merged double post. -Gigablue

[Human]

I don't believe, I believe the concept of god is ridiculous however:P

[whoisme]

My best friend turned out to be muslim and she is soo awsome. She one day asked me if i wanted to go to the mosque with her and i learned soo much about the religion of Islam. This religion makes soo much sense and i would recommend anyone to look into it instead of just saying bad things about the religion. Why don't u believe in god?! Who else created our soles and mind?! Not everything is science, because if it were then why can't you find out were the soul is and how to live forever. What happens in your life today (our very short life) determines our afterlife that we never die in. When you do good deeds you will go to heaven. And vise versa. This short life is like a test, if you go with the devil and do what they do then you will end up with them in hell. I recommend to look into the muslim religion because it will answer all your questions....and if u have any questions just ask me. Also go on online islamic sites that are in English. You'll understand a lot there, but there are sites that are unreliable so watch out.;)
We ask God to guide you to the best and to give us mercy and forgiveness.
Have you tried Muslims Search engine ?

[ayelove100]

We ask God to guide you to the best and to give us mercy and forgiveness.
Have you tried Muslims Search engine ?

What do you mean????

[whoisme]

What do you mean????

This one:
Muslims Search Engine
(http://bemuslims.weebly.com/muslims-search-engine.html)

[ayelove100]

This one:
Muslims Search Engine
(http://bemuslims.weebly.com/muslims-search-engine.html)

For some reason its blocked but anyway wats it about. Is it a bad or good thing???

[whoisme]

For some reason its blocked but anyway wats it about. Is it a bad or good thing???

Google it !

Edit:
searching-islam.com is similar is it blocked too ?

[ayelove100]

Google it !

Edit:
searching-islam.com is similar is it blocked too ?

Ohh i did......whats up??? It just seems like a search engine,

[whoisme]

Ohh i did......whats up??? It just seems like a search engine,

Fine :P
Also go on online islamic sites that are in English. You'll understand a lot there, but there are sites that are unreliable so watch out.;)

[ayelove100]

Fine :P

:D lol ok

[Twilly F. Sniper]

2007

Prof. F. J. Tipler published a paper on the theory demonstrating that the laws of Physics(i.e. Second law of thermodynamics, General relativity,Quantum mechanics, And standard model of particle physics) require that the universe end in Omega Point- the Omega Point exists as supremely complex and conscious, transcendent and independent of the evolving universe. In other words God.
Now im not saying that this definition of God is the right one, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and this is conclusive evidence of God who is infact spirit. Spirits were proved to exist.

This makes no sense, its like most religious gibberish (F J tipler IS CHRISTIAN AFTER ALL). I completely refute his theory.

I agree with the big bang theory instead. I'm not able to exactly explain. Life exists due to terraformation. It's real. look it up. Our Universe has no set end. It will end with the next big bang, which will occur likely *1.14-1.25 billion years from now.
*(Uncertainty in the universe's age has caused that range to be like that)

[darthearth]

That's a good thing. When science discovers new information, it changes its stance in on issue. This ensures that it is always as accurate as possible.



This does happen, but there is a simple explanation for this. When people are close to death, the brain is deprived of oxygen and starts to hallucinate. This can produce profound religious experiences. If one religion were correct, everyone would have the same near death experiences. However, Christians have Christian near death experiences, Muslims have Muslim near death experiences, etc. this suggests that these experiences are a result of brain phenomena and cultural influence.


But what if this stuff just means there is no one correct religion and the "higher powers" were just coming across per expectations?

I believe in the higher powers because ever since I was little I've had spiritual experiences, but not everyone has these and I don't blame those who haven't for being atheist. Each one is given a role here I think, for some reason some aren't given them and I don't know why. There was one time where I had to get up early for marching band, I asked "the Lord" to help keep me from falling back to sleep as often I do. I started to lay back down after waking the next morning like many times I do and all of a sudden I heard what sounded like a playground outside the window...it was 4:30am. I rose and laid my head down 9 times (I counted them) and the sound started every time I laid my head down. Then I remembered my prayer the night before...stuff like this is why I believe (I went to the window after getting up and all was dark and quiet as usual for 4:30am).

[TheSocialInspector]

There is no correct religion because religion is a community of people directed towards a specific belief. It does not mean they are rounded down to the point where they all agree on the same thing.

As a Christian, I believe in the higher position of authority, a spiritual Dictator who created us. Out of love which is why he chooses not to wipe us out.

It might be true, that there are "higher expectations". History has been stretched - misconceptionshave been met. We argue over the possible presence of a higher, spiritual order of authority. Perhaps over these years, transalations and lies have covered the truth with nothing but layers of what we believe in now.

That's what erks me so much.

[Error 404]

My best friend turned out to be muslim and she is soo awsome. She one day asked me if i wanted to go to the mosque with her and i learned soo much about the religion of Islam. This religion makes soo much sense and i would recommend anyone to look into it instead of just saying bad things about the religion. Why don't u believe in god?! Who else created our soles and mind?! Not everything is science, because if it were then why can't you find out were the soul is and how to live forever. What happens in your life today (our very short life) determines our afterlife that we never die in. When you do good deeds you will go to heaven. And vise versa. This short life is like a test, if you go with the devil and do what they do then you will end up with them in hell. I recommend to look into the muslim religion because it will answer all your questions....and if u have any questions just ask me. Also go on online islamic sites that are in English. You'll understand a lot there, but there are sites that are unreliable so watch out.;)

You speak like you've seen it yourself xD

Eh first of all, few people believe they have proven that soul exist, and they "found it" where it actually is (google it, and you'll stumble upon it).But i wouldn't take their word for it.

Soul IMO - just energy, which once was part of this universe, and once you die...it goes back to it.Nothing else, nothing more.

But if you think about it, believe in god, do no bad things, pray to him, etc, and you'll end up in heaven or w/e, all that...stuff, well, first of all, think like this: if you know for a fact that there is NO god, no after life, that life was, well, pointless, what would you do?Would you be really "good" and respect the law/etc?

IMO, most wouldn't.So what if you/they, it's not like it matters now, is it?

Religion, god = manipulation.

As for making of the human kind...well, first of all, the pyramids = high probability aliens made 'em.Maybe even us.Haven't you seen "flying saucers" on so much old religious paintings, then someone who looks like he's in an "space suit", on a picture made 500-600, or more years ago?

And my opinion why people even believe in god...
It makes 'em feel like they're not alone, especially when they need help.It probably makes 'em feel better too.

And personally, I'm fine with that, w/e makes people happy.But that again it doesn't mean that there is god.Even if there was, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be god as he's described in bible/or any of the religious books.

But oh well, it's just my opinion.I choose not to believe :) And I was on verge of death twice actually, been dead for a minute or so one of those times.Been in coma for few days too.Haven't seen anything :))

Edit:Just to add few pictures..Pretty much all of this pictures were painted 500+ years ago.

[ayelove100]

You speak like you've seen it yourself xD

Eh first of all, few people believe they have proven that soul exist, and they "found it" where it actually is (google it, and you'll stumble upon it).But i wouldn't take their word for it.

Soul IMO - just energy, which once was part of this universe, and once you die...it goes back to it.Nothing else, nothing more.

But if you think about it, believe in god, do no bad things, pray to him, etc, and you'll end up in heaven or w/e, all that...stuff, well, first of all, think like this: if you know for a fact that there is NO god, no after life, that life was, well, pointless, what would you do?Would you be really "good" and respect the law/etc?

IMO, most wouldn't.So what if you/they, it's not like it matters now, is it?

Religion, god = manipulation.

As for making of the human kind...well, first of all, the pyramids = high probability aliens made 'em.Maybe even us.Haven't you seen "flying saucers" on so much old religious paintings, then someone who looks like he's in an "space suit", on a picture made 500-600, or more years ago?

And my opinion why people even believe in god...
It makes 'em feel like they're not alone, especially when they need help.It probably makes 'em feel better too.

And personally, I'm fine with that, w/e makes people happy.But that again it doesn't mean that there is god.Even if there was, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be god as he's described in bible/or any of the religious books.

But oh well, it's just my opinion.I choose not to believe :) And I was on verge of death twice actually, been dead for a minute or so one of those times.Been in coma for few days too.Haven't seen anything :))
Well everyone believes in different things, but i believe that if you look into different religions they will convince u, anyways when ur in a coma u r sleeping not dead so u wont see anything.:)

[Error 404]

Depends.There are people who said they were in coma, but seen a lot of stuff etc.And as i said, I was dead for a minute or so, and I've read about people being dead a minute or so, and seeing stuff, etc...

I mean, if you're dead, if there was some kind of "soul" it would leave the body pretty much the same moment everything "shuts down".

And I've added few pictures above, that were painted 500+ years ago, and quite possible prove aliens.Now if they made us, or what...well, who knows.

[randomnessqueen]

i believe in god because i have experience god directly.
but there are many other reasons to believe for those who want different reasons

[Jackerlus]

For those religious of you who say 'how did the big bang begin anyway?' or 'how could it have begun?', there are actually discoveries in particle physics that support that something could come from nothing. There is also the theory of infinite regress, but I suggest you look it up.

[Boss...]

I think the best way to desribe why I believe, and some others beleive, that god is real; through this little arugument. Supposedly between Einstien and one of his professors.

‘Let me explain the problem science has with religion.’ The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.
‘You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?’
‘Yes sir,’ the student says.
‘So you believe in God?’
‘Absolutely.’
‘Is God good?’
‘Sure! God’s good.’
‘Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?’
‘Yes’
‘Are you good or evil?’
‘The Bible says I’m evil.’
The professor grins knowingly. ‘Aha! The Bible!’ He considers for a moment. ‘Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?’
‘Yes sir, I would.’
‘So you’re good…!’
‘I wouldn’t say that.’
‘But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.’
The student does not answer, so the professor continues. ‘He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?’
The student remains silent.
‘No, you can’t, can you?’ the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.
‘Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?’
Er … yes,’ the student says.
‘Is Satan good?’
The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. ‘No.’
‘Then where does Satan come from?’
The student falters. ‘From God’
‘That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?’
‘Yes, sir.’
‘Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?’
‘Yes’
‘So who created evil?’ The professor continued, ‘If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.’
Again, the student has no answer. ‘Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?’
The student squirms on his feet. ‘Yes.’
‘So who created them?’
The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. ‘Who created them?’ There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. ‘Tell me,’ he continues onto another student. ‘Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?’
The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. ‘Yes, professor, I do.’
The old man stops pacing. ‘Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?’
‘No sir. I’ve never seen Him.’
‘Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?’
‘No, sir, I have not.’
‘Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?’
‘No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.’
‘Yet you still believe in him?’
‘Yes’
‘According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?’
‘Nothing,’ the student replies. ‘I only have my faith.’
‘Yes, faith,’ the professor repeats. ‘And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.’
The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. ‘Professor, is there such thing as heat?’
‘ yes.
‘And is there such a thing as cold?’
‘Yes, son, there’s cold too.’
‘No sir, there isn’t.’
The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. ‘You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.’
‘Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.’
Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.
‘What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?’
‘Yes,’ the professor replies without hesitation. ‘What is night if it isn’t darkness?’
‘You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word.’
‘In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?’
The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. ‘So what point are you making, young man?’
‘Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.’
The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time. ‘Fl awed? Can you explain how?’
‘You are working on the premise of duality,’ the student explains. ‘You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought.’
‘It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.’
‘Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?’
‘If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.’
‘Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?’
The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.
‘Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?’
The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.
‘To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.’
The student looks around the room. ‘Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?’ The class breaks out into laughter.
‘Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.’
‘So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lecture s, sir?’
Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.
Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. ‘I guess you’ll have to take them on faith.’
‘Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,’ the student continues. ‘Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?’
Now uncertain, the professor responds, ‘Of course, there is. We see it everyday It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.’
To this the student replied, ‘Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.’

The professor sat down.

[LouBerry]

I don't really know how to answer you. Why do I believe? Well, how could I not? I talk to God and he answers me. He shows me He is here and listening. There is no reason for me to doubt, I know Him. I have an extremely intimate relationship with Him. That's like asking me why I believe in gravity or love. You feel it and you KNOW.

[Jackerlus]

I just want to post this picture on a more comical note:

[TheSocialInspector]

Well, this argument is diverting fairely well towards a reasonable stand.

I'll try my best attempt at summarizing this debate.

The first portion is holds a great sway over the existence of spirits. Followed is the coneption of the presence of a God, which is criticized for its lack of evidence and is being used to "explain mysteries where Science has failed to explain for".

Followed by is the recorded conversation of the argument between a student and his proffessor on the absence of evil.

So what created us?

The Big Bang, apparently, as you argue. Putting it specifically, The Big Bang did not create the Universe, nor did it start a chain of the events. It is the explanation to the early development of the Universe, an incident that transpired following its expansion from a singularity, a single form of what its earliest stage was.

"If the world has begun with a single quantum, the notions of space and time would altogether fail to have any meaning at the beginning; they would only begin to have a sensible meaning when the original quantum had been divided into a sufficient number of quanta. If this suggestion is correct, the beginning of the world happened a little before the beginning of space and time." ~ Monsignor Georges Lemaître

What exactly did happen during that development? Attributed to the scientific theory and explanation, the earliest phases are yet to be confirmed and are under heated claims and conceptions that have all linked to the cosmical expansion in which high temperatures were supposedly reached.

The Big Bang theory can be welcomed into the arms of Religion and it does not have any evidence in proving "the notion of a creator superflous". A divine creator of spiritual means linked to such a theory only enhances the possibility, as widely believed and only creates a broader range of misonceptions but also in no means contradicts the theories in the belief of the creation by a divine being.

As for the existence of spirits, there has been no solid claims or conceptions of spiritual beings. I have failed to find it attributing to the concept of a divine being in the majority of its article.

In my relation to my religion, my belief in spiritual beings does not expand far to the belief that they roam the Earth in their own entirety.

Merged double post. -Gigablue

[darthearth]

For those religious of you who say 'how did the big bang begin anyway?' or 'how could it have begun?', there are actually discoveries in particle physics that support that something could come from nothing. There is also the theory of infinite regress, but I suggest you look it up.

referring to virtual particles in quantum physics.....its unconvincing that there really was "nothing" to begin with. doesn't make logical sense, it is just the uncertainty principle that underpins it and I don't see the "something comes from nothing" argument as a necessary result from it (perhaps the fundamental nature of space is not known?). Infinite regress is mere speculation that doesn't seem to ultimately answer anything. (didn't know what it was before, just looked it up) :yes:

[Error 404]

A bit on a comic side, but not far off...

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/religion

[CharlieFinley]

i would recommend anyone to look into it instead of just saying bad things about the religion. How do you know we haven't?Who else created our soles My cobbler created my soles, thank you. Not everything is science, because if it were then why can't you find out were the soul is and how to live forever. What an inane question. Protip: question marks are awesome. What happens in your life today (our very short life) determines our afterlife that we never die in. When you do good deeds you will go to heaven. And vise versa. Protip: that's preaching, not proof.

Obviously, you haven't looked into the religion because if you did then you would get what i mean by makes sense. Except I have, and it doesn't. How do u believe this world became. Speaking as a creationist, there are some atheist explanations for the big bang that almost make sense. I don't accept them, as they don't satisfy (in my opinion) the requirements for special pleading, but many do and are not necessarily incorrect to do so.If you don't believe people in the future one day you will believe it. I have never spoken to people in the future, so I neither believe nor disbelieve them. And what i mean is that people dont believe in god sometimes and believe that this word deveoped through science. No, they believe it developed through natural processes that we can learn to understand through science. It will never ever be possible for a human to live foreveer. Part of life is dying. Believe what you want, but when you die theres an afterlife. Say that all you like, but you're acting like you have proof and you don't.

The religion does make sense its just you probably didn't read anything about it. :whoops: Or I read about it and decided it didn't make sense.Well not really the purpose to living is its kind of like a test. The purpose to living and minimizing your sins is so you can iternely live in the afterlife either in hell or heaven. If you read the Quran that is translated or ask someone who can translate it for you, those are Gods words and its not changed by human the same way the bible is. Okay, it's on. You take potshots at my religion? Mohammed married 11 women. He had sex with a nine-year old. His first wife was a "sugar momma" of sorts, and many of the other ten were political marriages. He was also a military leader who converted much of the Arabian Peninsula by force. You done?
There are also many celebrities that have converted to islam. Search about it if you want. Also arent you like young because you still have a pretty long life ahead of you and during time you might change your mind. :)There are also celebrities who are scientologists. What's your point?

As for the Big Bang Theory, I'll admit I have no idea how it started and such. But it certainly does make more sense than religion's views. But I don't believe everything were all "created". Special pleading fallacy.

Where did you see that many scientists convert to Islam? Sorry, but I just don't believe that. Can you provide examples about the things the Quran says is true? What are they? Given that there are many scientists who are Christians, I think it's safe to say that there are some Muslim ones as well.


I agree with the big bang theory instead. I'm not able to exactly explain. Life exists due to terraformation. It's real. look it up. Our Universe has no set end. It will end with the next big bang, which will occur likely *1.14-1.25 billion years from now. Except it won't, because the Universe's expansion is accelerating.
Well everyone believes in different things, but i believe that if you look into different religions they will convince u Then your beliefs are pretty far off the mark, I'd say. anyways when ur in a coma u r sleeping not dead so u wont see anything.:)
Actually, many comatose people are brain-dead.
I think the best way to desribe why I believe, and some others beleive, that god is real; through this little arugument. Supposedly between Einstien and one of his professors.


The professor sat down.
Einstein was not involved. Also, fancy rhetoric proves nothing.

The Big Bang theory can be welcomed into the arms of Religion and it does not have any evidence in proving "the notion of a creator superflous". A divine creator of spiritual means linked to such a theory only enhances the possibility, as widely believed and only creates a broader range of misonceptions but also in no means contradicts the theories in the belief of the creation by a divine being.

As for the existence of spirits, there has been no solid claims or conceptions of spiritual beings. I have failed to find it attributing to the concept of a divine being in the majority of its article.

In my relation to my religion, my belief in spiritual beings does not expand far to the belief that they roam the Earth in their own entirety.

Merged double post. -Gigablue
This times infinity.

[Boss...]

Einstein was not involved. Also, fancy rhetoric proves nothing.



Actually, the whole point to that is too say just cause you can't see it, feel it , taste it, or hear it doesn't mean he's not real. He does not think this world is ready to see him, so he does not show him self. As for me believing he is real, I still do and will always. I have my reasons too.:D

[Gigablue]

I think the best way to desribe why I believe, and some others beleive, that god is real; through this little arugument. Supposedly between Einstien and one of his professors.

‘Let me explain the problem science has with religion.’ The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.
‘You’re a Christian, aren’t you, son?’
‘Yes sir,’ the student says.
‘So you believe in God?’
‘Absolutely.’
‘Is God good?’
‘Sure! God’s good.’
‘Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?’
‘Yes’
‘Are you good or evil?’
‘The Bible says I’m evil.’
The professor grins knowingly. ‘Aha! The Bible!’ He considers for a moment. ‘Here’s one for you. Let’s say there’s a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?’
‘Yes sir, I would.’
‘So you’re good…!’
‘I wouldn’t say that.’
‘But why not say that? You’d help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn’t.’
The student does not answer, so the professor continues. ‘He doesn’t, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?’
The student remains silent.
‘No, you can’t, can you?’ the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.
‘Let’s start again, young fella. Is God good?’
Er … yes,’ the student says.
‘Is Satan good?’
The student doesn’t hesitate on this one. ‘No.’
‘Then where does Satan come from?’
The student falters. ‘From God’
‘That’s right. God made Satan, didn’t he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?’
‘Yes, sir.’
‘Evil’s everywhere, isn’t it? And God did make everything, correct?’
‘Yes’
‘So who created evil?’ The professor continued, ‘If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.’
Again, the student has no answer. ‘Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?’
The student squirms on his feet. ‘Yes.’
‘So who created them?’
The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. ‘Who created them?’ There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. ‘Tell me,’ he continues onto another student. ‘Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?’
The student’s voice betrays him and cracks. ‘Yes, professor, I do.’
The old man stops pacing. ‘Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?’
‘No sir. I’ve never seen Him.’
‘Then tell us if you’ve ever heard your Jesus?’
‘No, sir, I have not.’
‘Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?’
‘No, sir, I’m afraid I haven’t.’
‘Yet you still believe in him?’
‘Yes’
‘According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn’t exist. What do you say to that, son?’
‘Nothing,’ the student replies. ‘I only have my faith.’
‘Yes, faith,’ the professor repeats. ‘And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.’
The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of His own. ‘Professor, is there such thing as heat?’
‘ yes.
‘And is there such a thing as cold?’
‘Yes, son, there’s cold too.’
‘No sir, there isn’t.’
The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. ‘You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don’t have anything called ‘cold’. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can’t go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.’
‘Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.’
Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.
‘What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?’
‘Yes,’ the professor replies without hesitation. ‘What is night if it isn’t darkness?’
‘You’re wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it’s called darkness, isn’t it? That’s the meaning we use to define the word.’
‘In reality, darkness isn’t. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn’t you?’
The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. ‘So what point are you making, young man?’
‘Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.’
The professor’s face cannot hide his surprise this time. ‘Fl awed? Can you explain how?’
‘You are working on the premise of duality,’ the student explains. ‘You argue that there is life and then there’s death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can’t even explain a thought.’
‘It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.’
‘Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?’
‘If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do.’
‘Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?’
The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.
‘Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?’
The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.
‘To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me give you an example of what I mean.’
The student looks around the room. ‘Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor’s brain?’ The class breaks out into laughter.
‘Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor’s brain, felt the professor’s brain, touched or smelt the professor’s brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir.’
‘So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lecture s, sir?’
Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.
Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. ‘I guess you’ll have to take them on faith.’
‘Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,’ the student continues. ‘Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?’
Now uncertain, the professor responds, ‘Of course, there is. We see it everyday It is in the daily example of man’s inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.’
To this the student replied, ‘Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart. It’s like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.’

The professor sat down.

I really hate this argument. I've seen it so many times, and it never made any sense to me. It is basically just misusing language. This site (http://www.rationalresponders.com/debunking_an_urban_legend_evil_is_a_lack_of_something) explains exactly why it doesn't prove anything. I would post it, but it's a but long.

[Jess]

I really hate this argument. I've seen it so many times, and it never made any sense to me. It is basically just misusing language. This site (http://www.rationalresponders.com/debunking_an_urban_legend_evil_is_a_lack_of_something) explains exactly why it doesn't prove anything. I would post it, but it's a but long.

+10000

And wasn't Einstein actually an atheist? At least I don't think he was religious....? Or am I completely wrong?

[Gigablue]

+10000

And wasn't Einstein actually an atheist? At least I don't think he was religious....? Or am I completely wrong?

He was probably a deist, maybe an atheist. He certainly wasn't very religious, if he was at all.

[Boss...]

And wasn't Einstein actually an atheist? At least I don't think he was religious....? Or am I completely wrong?


"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings." -Albert Einstein

[ayelove100]

How do you know we haven't? My cobbler created my soles, thank you. What an inane question. Protip: question marks are awesome. Protip: that's preaching, not proof.

Except I have, and it doesn't. Speaking as a creationist, there are some atheist explanations for the big bang that almost make sense. I don't accept them, as they don't satisfy (in my opinion) the requirements for special pleading, but many do and are not necessarily incorrect to do so. I have never spoken to people in the future, so I neither believe nor disbelieve them. No, they believe it developed through natural processes that we can learn to understand through science. Say that all you like, but you're acting like you have proof and you don't.

Or I read about it and decided it didn't make sense. Okay, it's on. You take potshots at my religion? Mohammed married 11 women. He had sex with a nine-year old. His first wife was a "sugar momma" of sorts, and many of the other ten were political marriages. He was also a military leader who converted much of the Arabian Peninsula by force. You done?
There are also celebrities who are scientologists. What's your point?

Special pleading fallacy.
Given that there are many scientists who are Christians, I think it's safe to say that there are some Muslim ones as well.

Except it won't, because the Universe's expansion is accelerating.
Then your beliefs are pretty far off the mark, I'd say.
Actually, many comatose people are brain-dead.

Einstein was not involved. Also, fancy rhetoric proves nothing.

This times infinity.
I didn't even read this....its tooo long......

[CharlieFinley]

Sorry if it hurts your brain, princess, but this is the real world and you decided to stick your head into a debate forum. I'm sure you'll soldier through it, somehow. You might particularly enjoy the part where I imply that Mohammed was a pedophile.

[TheSocialInspector]

Yeah, much of him I have heard was such - he was raised in a Jewish background, but started leaning more towards atheism as time went by.

[Error 404]

Copy/paste... :)

So I’m sure most of us have probably heard the old chestnut anti-abortion crusaders love to toss out:

A cancer patient shakes his fist at the sky and screams: “Why God?” and a voice from the clouds replies: “I sent someone who would have found a cure, but you aborted him.”

Let’s roast that chestnut and crack it open.

How about instead:

“-but she died in childbirth after being forbidden to seek an abortion despite her high-risk pregnancy.”

Or perhaps:

“-but she was denied an education since her religious clan believed in proper roles for the sexes.”

Let’s try:

“-but he died of a preventable illness, having been denied medical attention by his parents because they believed in the efficacy of prayer.”

Maybe:

“-but he killed himself, having been relentlessly tormented for his homosexuality.”

Or how about:

“-but the public school science curriculum had been killed by a lethal injection of creationism.”

Let’s go with:

“-but she was killed as a witch in Nigeria.”

“-she was stoned to death in the Middle East.”

“-she was shot at age fourteen in the Middle East.”

“-she dated the wrong boy and her unassimilated immigrant community in Europe killed her to assuage her family’s honor.”

“-funds for legitimate research when to homeopathy instead.”

In conclusion: they know where they can shove that smug little fable. The same place where they found the ridiculous assertion that religion is in any way pro-life.

[Jess]

I've actually never seen that. Thanks for sharing

[CharlieFinley]

I must disagree. There are religions that you and I both view as backwards, hateful, or stupid. There are religions that I don't believe are any of those things, that don't have the teachings that chain message decries.

[GuillaumeBordeaux]

I'm an open minded Atheist. I don't believe in the idea of God [the christian/islamic/judaist god] But I am not adverse to the idea of some superior being out there. That doesn't necessarily mean I believe in living my life according to a book because I'll be judged or whatever. I'd be down with being Buddhist in that whatever I do to others will come back and bite me in the ass, a sort of give and take with the universe.