Circumsision Debate Thread

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

I figured Id make this as an outlet to take this debate away from the other circ threads in other sections. So, here you guys are. If you want to debate circ, here is where you do it:D

[Dolphus Raymond]

Well, I've pretty much said my peace on this issue, I suppose. I'd never do it to my children. If they grow up and choose to do it for themselves, or it's medically necessary, I will gladly pay for it. But I'm not taking a part of their body that they may want when it isn't objectively beneficial and without notable downside (like vaccination).

I don't think one's better or worse. I like being uncut, but that doesn't really have anything to do with my belief on this subject. I've researched the medicine behind it, talked to people about the ethics, and I think it's wrong. If my kids come to me at 15 and ask me why I made the decision I did, I know which one I'd want to have made. I'll give them the choice.

I don't mean to offend anyone. I don't think it's the most awful thing in the world or anything. But I'm glad it's uncommon in my state, and becoming less common in this country. Be happy with your penis, love your parents (they surely did it with the best intentions in mind, if they did), but question this.

That's really the best way I can put it.

[Joe3140]

Well the way I see it, all un-sut guys will think thiers is better and all cut guys will think thiers is better no matter what. Honestly theyre both penises and who really cares? Is there really any use in going and finding random facts suooprting 'yours is better', cuz theres just as much crap for each side and quite frankly i dont think anyone is every going to admitt theyre worse than someone else. I know i sure as hell wouldnt cuz after all 'mine' is the best. *but am i cut or uncut?* lol

[Octo22]

If I had kids I'd cut it off, because at my age if I wanted to be circumsized I'd probably be too afraid to let knives near my penis. Also having to deal with pain for a few days? God no, I'm glad my parents just got it over with.

Besides, uncut looks disgusting in my opinion.

[Dolphus Raymond]

If I had kids I'd cut it off, because at my age if I wanted to be circumsized I'd probably be too afraid to let knives near my penis. Also having to deal with pain for a few days? God no, I'm glad my parents just got it over with.

But what if your kids wanted to be uncircumcised? They wouldn't have the option at all. At least, if you leave them as-is, they'll have the choice at all. It's much harder (i.e., impossible) to become uncut if you're cut than vice-versa. That argument doesn't make sense.

Besides, uncut looks disgusting in my opinion.

It looks different to you because it isn't usual to you. It's skin...I don't see why it looks so "disgusting." If you think that's disgusting, you're gonna really freak when you see a vagina. And you're going to put your kid's penis through surgery because of your own aesthetic preferences, which he won't necessarily share? Shouldn't it be your kid's idea of attractive, not your own?

If you had a girl, would you get her plastic surgery if you didn't think she was attractive enough? Shouldn't that be their choice?

[Sapphire]

If it was part of my religion then I would have my son circumsized. If it was a health thing then I would want my son circumsized. Otherwise I wouldn't mind.

And to be perfectly honest with you, there is nothing at all attractive about penis' or vagina's.

[Octo22]

But what if your kids wanted to be uncircumcised? They wouldn't have the option at all.
Why would they want to be? What guy can 100% say, damn I wish I had an extra layer of skin over my penis that makes it much more open to chaffing as opposed to becoming callused from a young age.



It looks different to you because it isn't usual to you. It's skin...I don't see why it looks so "disgusting."

It isn't usual in todays age, I consider it almost barbaric in a sense of the word. It's more hassle to clean imho. I know that only one guy in a class of 31 people (health class a few years ago) was uncircumsised.


If you think that's disgusting, you're gonna really freak when you see a vagina.
Cheap shot much? I've seen vagina thanks, and I consider it "normal" looking.

Kind of like tortured said, I don't find these things ATTRACTIVE, it's just if 98% percent of North America is circumcised, do you really want your kid to have to put up with a girl seeing his penis for the first time and either being grossed out or asking what's wrong with it?

Now now, I'm not saying all girls are this dumb, but I am saying that you're taking a RISK of future embarrassment.



And you're going to put your kid's penis through surgery because of your own aesthetic preferences, which he won't necessarily share? Shouldn't it be your kid's idea of attractive, not your own?

My own? No. societies? Yes.

And please don't take the easy route and go on a tangent about "well if society found blah blah normal, would you blah blah" We're talking about THIS subject, not what if's in a foolish attempt to destroy an argument or opinion.

[MoveAlong]

Why would they want to be? What guy can 100% say, damn I wish I had an extra layer of skin over my penis that makes it much more open to chaffing as opposed to becoming callused from a young age.

Umm, that's never happened to me before...and I think a few would agree with me that it doesn't happen that often. I have even read that circumcised guys have more of a problem with skin irritations on the penis head.

I'm sorry, but how does it chafe? I've experienced no chaffing.

It's more hassle to clean imho. I know that only one guy in a class of 31 people (health class a few years ago) was uncircumsised.

In some regions of certain countries, there are heigher rates. My hypothesis would be more in Israel, because Judaism is the most prominent religion there, and in southern part of the U.S., from tradition. Again, that's only a generalization.

And, no, it's not a hassle to clean. It's not that hard...no cracks or anything. Just...pull it back, run some warm water over it during your shower, maybe leave the skin back while you go down and all over with the pouf, and then slide the skin back. It's really not that annoying compared to having a period, or having to go to the restroom.

Kind of like tortured said, I don't find these things ATTRACTIVE, it's just if 98% percent of North America is circumcised, do you really want your kid to have to put up with a girl seeing his penis for the first time and either being grossed out or asking what's wrong with it?

98%? Sorry, but it's not that high :|

Well there isn't anything wrong with it. She then hasn't had proper sex ed. And furthermore, the father should be able to tell his son about his foreskin enough to have him comfortable with it. It really shouldn't be the fathers business to get directly involved with his sons sex life mind you, but if a girl freaks out, I believe the kid should be secure enough to know that it's her problem.

Sorry, I'm confused with your comment...are you meaning to say that guys should be circumcised? Or that it's so unusual that it's not only hard to manage but annoying? Or are you trying to say that it should defiantely be the parent's choice whether or not the kid shall be circumcised?

I wouldn't call foreskin unusual or freakish because we're born with it. That's just an opinion you have, and of course do share with several others.

And you're going to put your kid's penis through surgery because of your own aesthetic preferences, which he won't necessarily share?
My own? No. societies? Yes.



How can you use society as a backing for an argument when you have clearly stated that being uncut looks disgusting in your opinion and you deny that you have any connection with that?

Please be nice. I don't want to be yelled at.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Why would they want to be? What guy can 100% say, damn I wish I had an extra layer of skin over my penis that makes it much more open to chaffing as opposed to becoming callused from a young age.

Why would I want my penis to be calloused? I'd feel less. It's covered by foreskin...that's why it doesn't chafe. I've never had "chaffing." I don't know what you're trying to say, here, at all.

It isn't usual in todays age, I consider it almost barbaric in a sense of the word. It's more hassle to clean imho. I know that only one guy in a class of 31 people (health class a few years ago) was uncircumsised.

It's changed in Canada since you were born. The Canadian Institute of Health puts the circumcision rate at 9.2 percent in 2005 (source with references (http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/Canada/)). When we were born, the rate was much, much higher. But medical organizations came out against it, and that has changed. The U.S. has been slower than Canada, but we seem to be following in kind, more or less.

Oh, and cleaning...three seconds in the shower, once a day. One swipe of a washcloth. Probably what you do too. A week of camping and no hygiene problems. It's not a big deal.

Cheap shot much? I've seen vagina thanks, and I consider it "normal" looking.

I didn't mean it to be a cheap shot.

But if you know about vaginas, you'll know that they're A) harder to keep clean, B) much more unusual in structure than an uncircumcised penis. Both are perfectly "normal." 80%+ of men in this world have a foreskin. A circumcised penis looks unusual to me, but I can be reasonable and say it's "normal"-looking too, even if it isn't to me. My son can decide what's "normal."

Kind of like tortured said, I don't find these things ATTRACTIVE, it's just if 98% percent of North America is circumcised, do you really want your kid to have to put up with a girl seeing his penis for the first time and either being grossed out or asking what's wrong with it?

98% of North America is circumcised? Uh, no. The United States hospital rate is currently 56% (probably actually slightly higher due to post-hospital circumcisions). The Canadian rate is 9% (again, higher in reality, but not by that much). Mexico, it's rare. The North American circumcision rate is less than 50%. It's certainly not 98%.

In Washington state, where I live, the rate is 26% (according to stats I just looked up). The hospital here doesn't even do it. I doubt there's any risk of a girl thinking it's weird. And, if she does...how many girls seriously have never heard of foreskin? You're acting like my kid would be some crazy anomaly. Hardly.

Now now, I'm not saying all girls are this dumb, but I am saying that you're taking a RISK of future embarrassment.

I've had five girls see my penis. I've been in plenty of locker rooms. None of them care. No one in the locker room cares. It's not a big deal.

My own? No. societies? Yes.

I think you vastly overestimate how much girls care if you do, or don't, have foreskin on your penis. Otherwise, would circumcision rates have cratered as they have?

Again, with circumcision now uncommon in Canada and not the overwhelming majority in the U.S. either...the societal "bias" quickly disappears. Assuming you have a kid in 10-15 years, in Canada, he'll probably find himself in the minority if you cut him.

And please don't take the easy route and go on a tangent about "well if society found blah blah normal, would you blah blah" We're talking about THIS subject, not what if's in a foolish attempt to destroy an argument or opinion.

No, it's a fair question. In Africa, some men refuse to sleep with a circumcised woman. Does that justify it? I seriously hope not. But your same logic is applied to that situation. You're trying to rationalize a ritual practice with a societal bias that doesn't even exist much anymore. Thirty years ago, maybe that argument would hold some water...but not anymore.

[Octo22]

Okay fine, my arguments been destroyed. Know why? This topic doesn't really seem debatable.

I have my views, you have yours. My kid will be cut, yours wont.

If we're debating whether parents have the right to do it, that's debatable, but this topic could easily be summarized in

"will your kid be cut, or un" and everyone respond in one word.

[Dolphus Raymond]

Okay fine, my arguments been destroyed. Know why? This topic doesn't really seem debatable.

I have my views, you have yours. My kid will be cut, yours wont.

If we're debating whether parents have the right to do it, that's debatable, but this topic could easily be summarized in

"will your kid be cut, or un" and everyone respond in one word.

I don't see why this topic is undebatable. I think we just did a pretty OK job of debating it. Is there any chance that I can counter your arguments because I might have a point? :P If you can't really explain the necessity of what you are doing, maybe you should spare yourself (and your kid) the experience and just leave him be. If you can't explain it here, how could you ever explain it to your kid if he were dissatisfied?

Minds do change.

[Octo22]

If I were uncut though, and wanted to be cut, I'd blame my parents for making me face the pain as an adult.

And I'd hoped not to bring this up because it leaves little to no room for argument but I come from a devout Christian family on my fathers side and my mothers side is Jewish. It's tradition, I can honestly say that in my entire group of friends, and almost everyone I'm friends with, is cut. It just looks cleaner in my opinion. And believe it or not your kids tend to share your opinions.

[Dolphus Raymond]

If I were uncut though, and wanted to be cut, I'd blame my parents for making me face the pain as an adult.

But at least you would have the option. Again, I've known a few people who went through of it. None of them thought it was that bad. None of them support infant circumcision. All of them said that, if they had been stuck, they would have been upset, so supporting infant circumcision would be hypocritical.

Unless uncut guys are much more likely to want to be cut than cut guys are to be uncut, which I've never seen a shred of evidence for, the "risk-benefits" argument you're making just doesn't add up. That's not even including the ethical elements behind it.

And I'd hoped not to bring this up because it leaves little to no room for argument but I come from a devout Christian family on my fathers side and my mothers side is Jewish. It's tradition, I can honestly say that in my entire group of friends, and almost everyone I'm friends with, is cut. It just looks cleaner in my opinion. And believe it or not your kids tend to share your opinions.

My dad was circumcised too, and I'm not. My mom's side of the family is also Jewish...it just is a non-issue. How much do you expect to discuss penises with your kid? It would have been tradition in my case too, but it wasn't, and I'm glad that "tradition" was broken. Again, rates have fallen big time since you and your friends were born. An Ottawa Citizen article (http://www.cirp.org/news/ottawacitizen10-17-97/) from 1997 said the rate was about 50%. The rates everywhere in Canada have fallen significantly since then, so it's probably well under 50%. Your kid will be in the minority, so that argument doesn't really fly.

I don't see how it "looks cleaner," but if you're cleaning both, they're going to be equally as clean. And, again, if it's only looks cleaner...that's pretty much plastic surgery for babies.

If you were a practicing Jew and your religion dictated it, I could probably understand then. But if it's just because you have Jewish heritage...then I don't see why the tradition is so important that it shouldn't be questioned. It's not like I'm planning to give my kids peyote because my ancestors were members of the Native American Church.

[Octo22]

You make good points, don't get me wrong.

I can't really argue my side, mainly because I don't care or study penises near as much as you seem to have.

My kid will be cut, if you kid name me 1 reason I SHOULDN'T DO IT. Besides "it's his choice" than I would.

It's like Nature vs. Nurture, both sides are right.

[Dolphus Raymond]

You make good points, don't get me wrong.

I can't really argue my side, mainly because I don't care or study penises near as much as you seem to have.

Thanks. I'm really way more interested in the ethical part than the penis part, trust me. To be fair, I know you haven't researched this as much as me and could probably defend your argument better if you did. But the question remains, unless you see something fundamentally flawed with my logic, why aren't you giving my position any consideration? Especially when it (leaving your kid the choice) is the more conservative option. You're acting like my position is radical.

I don't really give half a damn about penises, but when it comes to my son - yeah - I'm going to think about the morality of things before I put him through it. That's what a good parent does. We have the fortune to be the first generation with easy access to this information. I'm going to make use of that. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I owe it to him to think about this sort of thing.

My kid will be cut, if you kid name me 1 reason I SHOULDN'T DO IT. Besides "it's his choice" than I would.

Well, 'kay, to entertain you:

- Studies indicate it may decrease pleasure; we don't know.
- Studies indicate that the foreskin has nerves that make it erogenous.
- You'll have to pay for it. Canadian insurance doesn't cover it.
- It serves sexual functions that I'd rather not get way too detailed in.
- If it ain't broke, and it ain't yours, don't fix it.

I could try to scare you with information about circumcision-related deaths and mutilations, but they're rare. Not unheard of, but rare. But that's why you don't just do surgery for fun.

And why is "there's no reason not to let it be his choice" not a valid reason? Why is your default cutting him? Don't you think, if you're going to alter his body permanent and irreversibly, he should get a say in it? You've said that there's convincing points on my side, so I don't see why you're ignoring those and demanding I list more before you change your mind and leave your kid as-is.

I don't see why you totally throw the "if it's not necessary to do it for him, why not give him the choice?" argument out. It's a really strong argument. It's the really strong argument. What's your rationale for rejecting it?

It's like Nature vs. Nurture, both sides are right.

I don't really see how that follows...

[Octo22]

why aren't you giving my position any consideration?

Because it's just that. A position, I don't consider this something like "liberals vs. democrats(?)"

I consider this more like as simple as "do you prefer boobs or an ass on a woman".

And since I have the right to choose if my kid has cut or uncut, hell I can choose whether they live or die in this country, I'm going to exercise it.



- Studies indicate it may decrease pleasure; we don't know.

Saying "we don't know" doesn't scream great point.


- Studies indicate that the foreskin has nerves that make it erogenous.
- You'll have to pay for it. Canadian insurance doesn't cover it.
- It serves sexual functions that I'd rather not get way too detailed in.
- If it ain't broke, and it ain't yours, don't fix it.


None of these points were strong enough to interest me in any way, I've heard stories from friends in england who're uncut of embarassing sex stories in which it got caught / tugged / pulled etc. I'd rather avoid that.

Also you're wrong on the insurance part, sure Canadian alone won't cover me their, but anyone with even a decent plan gets it for free.



-side note-
You seem like the type of person who's dead against abortion, it's not their choice either now is it ;D

[Dolphus Raymond]

Because it's just that. A position, I don't consider this something like "liberals vs. democrats(?)"

I consider this more like as simple as "do you prefer boobs or an ass on a woman".

And since I have the right to choose if my kid has cut or uncut, hell I can choose whether they live or die in this country, I'm going to exercise it.

Yes, it is your right. But it's a logical decision. Whether you're attracted to tits or ass is a built-in psychological thing. Whether you circumcise your son is something that can be evaluated rationally.

I don't get your "liberals vs. Democrats" comparison...

Obviously you can make the choice. That's why I'm trying to change your mind through reason and logic, not screaming "let's ban it!" There are some OK arguments for that too, but I don't feel vehemently about that. I think it's wrong ethically, but I don't want to force my ethics onto others by the law.

I think that my arguments are reasonable, and that talking to people like they're not morons is the best way to get them to hold off on the knife. It's worked pretty well so far, in fact.

Saying "we don't know" doesn't scream great point.

Some studies indicate so. Some studies disagree. There's probably some degree of sensitivity loss. We just don't know how great it is because that's hard to measure.

No, it's not the strongest argument in the world, but again...I don't see why the default is circumcision, and you have to be argued out of that. In medicine, the default in all things should be avoiding unnecessary surgery, and then evaluating its necessity from that position. That's pretty universally accepted.

None of these points were strong enough to interest me in any way, I've heard stories from friends in england who're uncut of embarassing sex stories in which it got caught / tugged / pulled etc. I'd rather avoid that.

Like how? A girl tugs too hard? That doesn't have much to do with circumcision status. I don't know what kind of sex they're having where their foreskin gets "caught." I don't mean to cast a shadow on your credibility, but that doesn't make much sense at all.

Also you're wrong on the insurance part, sure Canadian alone won't cover me their, but anyone with even a decent plan gets it for free.

It's still about $100 out-of-pocket.

But the big part of my post was asking what your response to my "if it's not necessary, why not give him the choice?" part. You're ignoring my biggest argument in favor of smaller, more trivial ones and then making fun of how trivial those ones are. :P

-side note-
You seem like the type of person who's dead against abortion, it's not their choice either now is it ;D

I'm not really strong either way on abortion. I think both issues have good points. But the pro-choice argument is usually "women should have a choice over their own bodies, and a fetus isn't a life," so...don't you think that I sound like a pro-choicer? :P

In any case, if you're saying I'm some kind of fundamentalist whackjob, or whatever you're trying to say. I'm a moderate.

[Octo22]

'Kay, I'll just keep this simple

"Why not give him the choice"

My honest to god answer, because I don't have to, and I'd prefer a circumsised kid.

Just like how I'd prefer a white kid over a black kid, you want something that resembles you.


(also the whole liberal vs. democrat thing I brought up, was basically saying if we altered your arguments you sound exactly like a liberal trying to convince a democrat to be liberal. You're arguing things when both sides have correct views and wrong views)

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[Dolphus Raymond]

'Kay, I'll just keep this simple

"Why not give him the choice"

My honest to god answer, because I don't have to, and I'd prefer a circumsised kid.

Just like how I'd prefer a white kid over a black kid, you want something that resembles you.

Sorry, but if you think you should custom-design your child to your specifications, and not his, we have a fundamental disagreement about parenting.

That seems so weird to me. It's going to bother you that your kid looks different than you *that* much? I hope my kid's smarter, happier, and better-looking than me. Isn't that what parenting is about? I'm not going to force unnecessary, potentially dangerous surgery on him to look more like me. I think that's really quite wrong.

(also the whole liberal vs. democrat thing I brought up, was basically saying if we altered your arguments you sound exactly like a liberal trying to convince a democrat to be liberal. You're arguing things when both sides have correct views and wrong views)

...By the North American definition, Democrats are liberal, but I'll pretend like I understand what you're trying to say. :P

I don't really understand your opinion on this, beyond "it would make me happier if my kid's penis was cut like mine." That seems really greedy to me.

[Octo22]

I could argue this, but we're just gonna circle and circle.

I'm greedy, it's a viewpoint that's been put in my head since I was born that people should be cut. You can't change things like this, I'm a psycho-analyst and believe it to be part of my unconscious. Keep telling me I'm wrong, but is there anything WRONG with circumsision?

The only flaw you've managed to point out is, he might not want it.

Well he might not want me to be such a strict parent, another thing I could control. But we all make decisions for our kid whether we like it or not.

[Dolphus Raymond]

I could argue this, but we're just gonna circle and circle.

I'm greedy, it's a viewpoint that's been put in my head since I was born that people should be cut. You can't change things like this, I'm a psycho-analyst and believe it to be part of my unconscious. Keep telling me I'm wrong, but is there anything WRONG with circumsision?

I've named a lot of things I think are wrong with it. Why is this part of your "unconscious"? It bothers you that your kid might be different from you? Then don't have a kid, or you're really, really going to be bothered.

Also...you're a psychoanalyst at 17?

The only flaw you've managed to point out is, he might not want it.

I've pointed out the ethical rights issues, and benefits to being uncircumcised. No, it won't be the end of your child's life if you get him cut. By that ridiculously low standard, it doesn't violate any ethical rules. But it's still a ridiculously low standard.

Well he might not want me to be such a strict parent, another thing I could control. But we all make decisions for our kid whether we like it or not.

You've pretty much admitted that your only reason for doing it is "I want to for no particular reason, and I can." Should I really even bother refuting that point? Yes, you do make decisions for your kid. Which is why I'm asking you to evaluate this one and consider that it's unnecessary traditionalism.

Again, if you don't want your son to be a different person from you in such a minor way as foreskin, you're going to be really disappointed by your children. I really don't think that's what you want.

[Octo22]

I don't want him to be exactly like me, it's just a trait that's been passed down okay? I'm just can't describe my point as well whereas you seem to be the expert, if we argued anything I actually gave two shits about I'd put more effort in.

[Dolphus Raymond]

I don't want him to be exactly like me, it's just a trait that's been passed down okay? I'm just can't describe my point as well whereas you seem to be the expert, if we argued anything I actually gave two shits about I'd put more effort in.

For, like, a few generations at most. Before then, it wasn't. Circumcision has only been a "trend" for the past 80 years or so, and its cycling out again. It's not even got much of a tradition behind it...it's hardly a "family trait."

You don't think you should put effort into deciding whether to have surgery on a newborn...? Well, OK, I disagree. Why do you feel so concretely about something you claim you don't give a shit about?

[Octo22]

Because it's not something I've even considered at this point in my life? It's like considering what benefit plan you want as a senior, I'm gonna wait the 5 years at least thanks :\

Unless you plan on knocking a chick up, it seems frivolous. Also, yes I'm a psycho-analyst, I've taken 4 courses on the matter and studied it during the summer with some light reading (mainly Freudian, but I have to disagree with him and side more with Carl Jung)

[Dolphus Raymond]

Because it's not something I've even considered at this point in my life? It's like considering what benefit plan you want as a senior, I'm gonna wait the 5 years at least thanks :\

Haha, fair enough. Well, at least keep it in mind, then. I don't mean to evangelize. There's plenty of time to look into it when the situation comes up. There are obviously more important concerns, now.

Unless you plan on knocking a chick up, it seems frivolous.

I don't...thank God for birth control...

Also, yes I'm a psycho-analyst, I've taken 4 courses on the matter and studied it during the summer with some light reading (mainly Freudian, but I have to disagree with him and side more with Carl Jung)

Awesome. My dad's a psychologist (and would agree with you on the Freud/Jung thing.) That's pretty damn advanced stuff for a senior (I'm assuming). Good for you. I wish there were opportunities for that kind of class where I live.

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[sasori1122]

Well...I'm circumcised, but my kids certainly won't be.

I just find something wrong with performing unneccessary surgery on infants, especially when you can't give them anesthetics...

If they are older, and want to have it done, I won't do anything to stop them, I'd even pay for it...

[Octo22]

Groszewski that was potentially my favourite post ever read on these forums :P

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[Octo22]

"
Is this supposed to be taken as a compliment?
"
Yes, it was.

[RealAndFake]

Well, I am circumcised and i know everyone i have been with has a higher prefferance over cuts. Everyone i have talked to aswell. I am not sure of how many people in this year are cut, but its about equal. Funny how being cut actually looks more "Natural" Then being uncut. One of the reasons this might be is because normally, the first picture (Usually its pictures or video) that a girl see's is of a circumcised penis. Porn stars, are basicaly all cut. And in pictures, you usually see them erect, and while erect, they all basically look the same. But when they realise there is a difference while flacid, what one do you think they will stick with? The first image they ever saw, that got drilled into their head, or the new one that doesn't look to flattering anymore. Sadly, more people are realizing its not a big deal to get their kids cut. So they don't. Why? No one can be to sure. Probably because more people are telling them they dont need to do it. And they Don't, i respect that. Besides, why not save a hundred bucks, Hmm? I for one will get my kids circumcised. No i'm not being harsh. What they never had, they will never miss. Of course, if they do get problems later on in life, they will need to do it anyways. Why not save themselfs having to get it done? I'm not saying there is a 99% chance they will have to, thats foolish.. But even if there is the LITTLE 9% chance of health risks, why not just remove all percent? There are little health problems that come with being cut. And sure, you can argue that during the procedure they may die, or be butured.. But that is rarely unseen; Almost unheard of. With todays technology, and better educated physicts, the risks are even lower. people can argue that it makes you less sensitive aswell. But thats almost like animals that form excelent hearing in dark caves. They develope better hearing instead of vision. Circumcised people must also have developed key sensitivity. With the little bit of skin on the glans, over time the skin just grows more sensitive. Obviously there are no studies to conclude this. Its basically impossible. But doesn't it make perfect sence? So overall, there is no difference between the two except that cut's, overall, look more appealing then uncut's. Being uncut can also develope smegma, a stinky, "Natural lubricant"? Or annoying oil that can be embarassing and most people want to try and rid the smell. Skin can also get to tight and cause tons of pain untill the removal. I hear foreskin makes condoms harder to wear aswell. So the average, caring parent would wan't their kid circumcised to eliminate all these issues. Please note, many of the points are to consider.

Harder to clean aswell. You have to pull back the skin. Even if it only takes 3 seconds a day to clean. Thats 1095 seconds, 18.25 minutes a year. Average life time can be hypothsised to 65. so appx. 20 days of an average lifetime you spend pulling back that foreskin. yet, while being circumcised, you dont have to do anything to clean it. Its cleaned like any other part of their body. So that little 3 seconds adds up, Hmm?

[Whisper]

Harder to clean aswell. You have to pull back the skin. Even if it only takes 3 seconds a day to clean. Thats 1095 seconds, 18.25 minutes a year. Average life time can be hypothsised to 65. so appx. 20 days of an average lifetime you spend pulling back that foreskin. yet, while being circumcised, you dont have to do anything to clean it. Its cleaned like any other part of their body. So that little 3 seconds adds up, Hmm?

Sweetie I'm cut and I guarantee you i'll spend more than a total of 20 days touching my penis

Wanting to have it done or being thankful its done is one thing
to say you based your decision on the fact it saves you 3 seconds a day is bullshit

[RealAndFake]

Sweetie I'm cut and I guarantee you i'll spend more than a total of 20 days touching my penis

Wanting to have it done or being thankful its done is one thing
to say you based your decision on the fact it saves you 3 seconds a day is bullshit

I'm just saying that when people object and say it's only 3 seconds and not hard to clean at all, time can add up. You could have spent that three seconds touching yourself for pleasure, not for hygene. I did not have the descision to be cut later on in life; I was cut when i was born. And That, I am thankful for.

[Whisper]

and i'm saying using that as an excuse for this surgery is bullshit
if thats the only reason you have for getting it done
if your that lazy
then just chop the whole thing off cause you don't fuckin deserve it

If it was done while you were a baby and thats the only excuse you can think of to try and justify your parents decision
then
bummer

I don't care that I had it done
What's done is done I can't change it. honestly I'm happy with my body which is so rare in todays world that its not a gift I intend to take for granted
But it does piss me off everytime I think about it, that it was done without my permission
That the choice was taken away from me
My parents had it done because my dad wanted me to look more like him
there was absolutly no medical reason, nothing wrong with me
I just didn't look right apparently
-shrug-

Everyone screams they're glad it was done as a baby because they don't remember the pain
Which is shit
I just had two ribs sliced out and sawed off my spine a few months ago
I'm fine and all I had was record low levels or morphine for that surgeon. I didn't even have a regular dosage not to mention the real drugs like oxycotin or fentanyl
Trust me you'd be fine

[Mannequin]

ok, CIRCUMCISION is good because its healthy and you wont have bacteria build up in your dick. duh

[RealAndFake]

If you don't like to be cut, you do have the decision to go "Back".
Google, Foreskin Restoration.

But honestly just save yourself the time of pondering what it would be like WITH foreskin.
Be GLAD you DONT have it, just like they are glad they DO.

I know some people who are uncut and would LOVE to be cut because of "preferance" or however you would like to explain it. And they wont go to get it done because they are either to afraid and/or don't have to money at the time. Besides, If they left you with the "Decision", What do you think you would be right now, Cut or UnCut?

Hmm, And i thought, if there isn't a big difference, why would you even WONDER about what it would be like if your parents didn't...

[curiousteen]

Circumsision to me is the best way because its clean, looks neat, and healthier

[Neverender]

I'm just saying that when people object and say it's only 3 seconds and not hard to clean at all, time can add up. You could have spent that three seconds touching yourself for pleasure, not for hygene. I did not have the descision to be cut later on in life; I was cut when i was born. And That, I am thankful for.

well if your so lazy that you cant pull back the foreskin for a couple seconds (which would end up as wasted seconds of your life if you just stood in the shower warming up and just about to reach for the shampoo)(and also, the water hitting the head can be pleasurable too), then you might as well lie on your bed and perish of starvation or dehydration or whatever.

[Sapphire]

Circumsision to me is the best way because its clean, looks neat, and healthier
I agree with this 100%
It does look neater and more attractive. There are benefits on the health side of things too.

It doesn't impair sensitivity and anything that tells you otherwise is, tbh, not that reliable.

[Neverender]

It doesn't impair sensitivity and anything that tells you otherwise is, tbh, not that reliable.

well it does make the head less sensitive, because with foreskin nothing touches the head, leaving raw nerves, and when you touch them they hurt a bit, but after time they get more pleasurable as the nerves get used to being touched.

[Sapphire]

well it does make the head less sensitive, because with foreskin nothing touches the head, leaving raw nerves, and when you touch them they hurt a bit, but after time they get more pleasurable as the nerves get used to being touched.
In actual fact, there is next to no noticeable difference.

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0090429503009269
http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0022534705650975

[Josh75]

Wow, I see you guys all are really getting into this topic! Damn!

I was cut @ birth so I remember nothing about it. I'm sure it hurt for a day or so, but there are other birth traumas a newborn experiences like all the the sudden bright lights everywhere, it's cold as hell compared to mom's womb, & whatever else. So the additional bit of pain of getting snipped I don't think really matters. No boy cut @ birth remembers it. People who yell & scream about mutilation & all that stuff is all crap in my opinion. My dad & his father were both uncut. I've never asked my dad why he chose to have me cut, we're not close & I wouldn't be comfortable talking about it with him.

I've been with many boys who are cut and many who are uncut. I happen to agree that there are definite health and hygiene benefits to being cut. I know lots of older gay guys who are uncut who say they have to wash their foreskins several times a day to keep it clean and so it doesn't smell bad. Many of the uncut friends I've talked about this with also tell me they have to wash it several times a day, up to 4-5 times in some cases depending. I've been with uncut boys who I had to ask to please wash it or let me wash it or let's shower together and we'll clean it because it smells bad, and I hate the smell. And I'm sure as hell not going down on a smelly foreskin, nor put it anywhere else! Teens get hard many times a day and most secrete varying amounts of pre, & they pee, which traps both pre & urine inside the foreskin and it breeds bacteria and germs inside there which is what causes the smell. You can look it up on the net, it's true.

I'm gay & 16 & I've been fooling around with boys since I was 7, learned to jack when I was 12 and started having sex then. So I have experience with this. I'm happy as a bug in a rug that I'm cut and if I have kids with a partner one day, the boys will get cut.

That's my story & I'm stickin' to it.

[NewZealand]

Besides, uncut looks disgusting in my opinion.
Pulled back it looks almost identicle... But he'll, if you want to really think about it, that's like saying that natural boobs are disgusting because they haven't had implants.

Why would they want to be? What guy can 100% say
It isn't usual in todays age, I consider it almost barbaric in a sense of the word. It's more hassle to clean imho. I know that only one guy in a class of 31 people (health class a few years ago) was uncircumsised.

Kind of like tortured said, I don't find these things ATTRACTIVE, it's just if 98% percent of North America is circumcised, do you really want your kid to have to put up with a girl seeing his penis for the first time and either being grossed out or asking what's wrong with it?


I can honestly find you many cercumsized guys that would like their foreskin back.
98% no octo, only 58% of boys in America are getting circumsized, and as for how you said North America, the rate of people that are circumsized in North america is 44%, but the rate of circumsision is so much lower. So perhaps it won't be so weird after all. But if you look to the rest of the world the rates almost disappear in many cases, you're concept is incorrect in saying that being i circumsized may be unrecognisable for a girl, it may be the other way around.

I'm just saying that when people object and say it's only 3 seconds and not hard to clean at all, time can add up. You could have spent that three seconds touching yourself for pleasure, not for hygene

It doesn't take 3 seconds, it doesnt even take one, all men cut or uncut should clean their penis, and it takes the same amount of time, it's not like its effort to pull back.

If you don't like to be cut, you do have the decision to go "Back".
Google, Foreskin Restoration.
I know some people who are uncut and would LOVE to be cut because of "preferance" or however you would like to explain it. And they wont go to get it done because they are either to afraid and/or don't have to money at the time.
But why restore you're foreskin, when you could just have one anyway, why not get cut later in life, where I live anything medical is free for someone under 18, that is if you want to be circumsized, what I'm trying to say is that it isn't nessesart to have done as a baby, the upsides are almost nonexistent, but once it's done it's harder to undo then it is to get done when you are able to decide yourself.
ok, CIRCUMCISION is good because its healthy and you wont have bacteria build up in your dick. duh
You will only have bacteria build up on you're dick of your an unclean person, the same as if you are cut. Being unclean has the same result whether you're cut or not, it's yuck.


It doesn't impair sensitivity and anything that tells you otherwise is, tbh, not that reliable.
Disagree 100% I've corse it decreases sensitivity. It's like the skin underneath a fingernail. If anyone has lost a fingernail, they know that it's really sensitive underneath, but give it some time before the nail grows back and the skin inderneath looses sensitivity, it thickens. The only difference is that your foreskin doesn't grow back like a fingernail.

[Emerald Dream]

This thread was bumped. It's over six years old. :locked: