Gay Marriage becomes legal in Maine and Maryland

[Neptune]

For the first time in history, voters have chosen to legalize same-sex marriage on the ballot. Gay rights advocates are already celebrating this development as a critical victory and a turning point in the fight for marriage equality.

Since the late '90s, a total of 32 states have held votes on same-sex marriage, and each time, voters have opposed the measure. For opponents of same-sex marriage, this string of victories has been a crucial talking point. As Brian Brown, president of the National Organization for Marriage, the nation's leading group opposing gay marriage, said in a press release this summer: "The American people know in their heart what marriage is, and they have expressed that in the form of over 70 million votes cast in 32 consecutive state elections to preserve marriage as the union of one man and one woman."

But on Tuesday night, voters in Maine and Maryland chose to legalize gay marriage, according to exit polls and early returns. In Minnesota and Washington, the results were not yet clear as of this writing.

Chad Griffin, president of the Human Rights Campaign, an organization that has long advocated for same-sex marriage, spent more than $5 million in support of gay marriage in these states.

“This is a landmark election for marriage equality and we will forever look back at this year as a critical turning point in the movement for full citizenship for LGBT people," he said in a press release Tuesday night. "Voters in Maine came to the common-sense conclusion that all people deserve the ability to make loving, lifelong commitments through marriage."

Marc Solomon, national campaign director for Freedom to Marry, another prominent advocacy organization, said in a press release: “Today, a majority in Maine voted in favor of loving and committed same-sex couples seeking the freedom to marry. Now the commitment gay and lesbian couples have made in life will be respected equally under the law, celebrated before their loved ones, and called what it is: marriage.”

For gay-rights advocates, the Maine vote is particularly heartening. Just three years ago, a popular vote overturned legislation that would have legalized same-sex marriage in the state.

"Securing marriage equality at the ballot box in Maine is especially appreciated the second time around," R. Clark Cooper, head of the Log Cabin Republicans, the largest Republican group that supports same-sex marriage, told The Huffington Post in an email.

Although six states and Washington, D.C. legalized gay marriage before Tuesday night, they did so through the votes of state legislators or court decisions. The new victory undermines the conservative premise that those early wins were merely the result of liberal bias in state legislatures and the courts, and it reflects what recent polls have shown to be a shift in Americans' views on the issue.

“It’s hard to overstate the national significance of this vote,” Solomon said. “For years, our opponents have argued that we could not win a majority vote at the ballot. Today, Maine voters proved them wrong, standing up for the Golden Rule and for freedom for all Mainers.”

Brian Brown of the National Organization for Marriage could not immediately be reached for comment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/gay-marraige-victory_n_2085900.html

This has been a good night for America.

[ReginaGeorge]

Not just America, but the world. It's showing an example and leading the way in equality. It's absolutely fantastic. I don't have many words, other than it's great. Hopefully Australia can follow. We've already tried getting it through the lower houses, but it gets shut down before it can get any higher. :(

[Neptune]

Update for Washington State and Minnesota: As of 11:30pm PST (2:30am EST) - the current results in Washington are 977,366 for legalizing gay marriage and 909,725 for not legalizing gay marriage with 51% polling stations reporting. In Minnesota, the poll question is whether to define marriage in the Minnesota Constitution as between one man and one woman in the state. As of 11:33pm (2:33am EST) - the current results are 1,261,130 voting ''No'' and 1,191,996 voting ''Yes'' with 85% polling stations reporting.

[Mortal Coil]

It doesn't personally affect me, but I'm really glad that it's legal now :D

[Stronger]

Really glad these two states are supporting same-sex marriage. :D

[Halcyon]

I'm so glad it went so well. Hopefully in a few years this will be seen as the first major step towards gay marriage being legalised all over the States. Personally I think that the very idea of having to vote on whether a constitutional right should be legalised or not is unconstitutional. It's ridiculous.

[Jupiter]

good strides for the LGBT community.

[SosbanFach]

Well, it's surely only a matter of time before the UK, and indeed the rest of the US and many other places which are moving, albeit somewhat slowly, in that direction, follow this policy of of state-recognised equality for same-sex couples. I'm glad to hear that these issues are moving in the right direction, and hope that other countries/states which as yet are not there will take the cue and follow suite.

[Gaybaby94]

YES!!!!! It is a great time for America and the world. It's great that the American people are starting to accept equality. I can't wait for the day when same sex marriage is legal in all states.

[Green Arrow]

Well it's about fucking time! It's great to see that we are starting to make progress with Marriage Equality. I someday hope that in the UK, I can marry whoever I want to because I love them.

[Athlete15]

Hopefully this sparks a trend.. Its pretty wild that as progressive as the world's been we are so far from equal rights, let alone true equality.

[Cognizant]

This is great news. Now California just needs to overturn Prop 8.... :-\

[Neptune]

Update: Washington gay marriage law has passed and the Minnesota Law that would define marriage as between a man and woman in the state constitution has failed. :)

[Stronger]

Update: Washington gay marriage law has passed and the Minnesota Law that would define marriage as between a man and woman in the state constitution has failed. :)

I'm confused on the wording for the second part?

[PinkFloyd]

I think this is just excellent. Hopefully the world can follow.

[Jess]

Excellent! I think Spain also legalized gay marriage. Hopefully very soon all of US will legalize it

I'm confused on the wording for the second part?


I think it means the law (in Minnesota) to make define marriage as between a man and woman failed to pass. So there is no law defining such a thing for marriage.

[Stronger]

Excellent! I think Spain also legalized gay marriage. Hopefully very soon all of US will legalize it




I think it means the law (in Minnesota) to make define marriage as between a man and woman failed to pass. So there is no law defining such a thing for marriage.

Oh ok, makes sense, thanks.

[Syvelocin]

There are a series of topics related to gay marriage in the laws. You've got definition of marriage, in the constitution and/or statute, legal marriage licence and recognition of marriage, yes, no, or banned. And then of course the same relative thing about civil unions.

[Gymrat17]

Yes, good news for the USA and for the world. I wonder how long it will be before more conservative states in the US follow.

[Guillermo]

I think this is just excellent. Hopefully the world can follow.

Hopefully the world can follow? Who? Oh, you mean, the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Argentina, Portugal, Spain, Sweden etc. etc. who legalized gay marriage as a WHOLE country before the US (which has not done so, and probably won't in the near future). So maybe the US should actually follow them, instead of the world following the US.

Excellent! I think Spain also legalized gay marriage.

Spain legalized gay marriages a while ago. Like back in 2005. Very surprising for a mostly Catholic country, yet I'm sure the number that actually practice is much lower.

[PinkFloyd]

Hopefully the world can follow? Who? Oh, you mean, the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Argentina, Portugal, Spain, Sweden etc. etc. who legalized gay marriage as a WHOLE country before the US (which has not done so, and probably won't in the near future). So maybe the US should actually follow them, instead of the world following the US.



Spain legalized gay marriages a while ago. Like back in 2005. Very surprising for a mostly Catholic country, yet I'm sure the number that actually practice is much lower.

Yeah youre right the world following is a litle extreme but i think it woulld be great if states like California, New york, Florida, and Texas would follow because of the fact that they stand out more than like Vermont or North Dakota

[nfs4394]

I honnestly think this is a bigger step in the right direction than people realize. Even though it's just two states, more people are now going to advocating for the same rights than before. The movement toward marriage equality should then start to move even faster as more and more states legalize it. I still don't see why it's such a big issue if it doesn't affect anyone other than the two people who want to get married... just saying

[Greg1994]

I think it's a little cynical to not support it personally, I'm straight, but who am I to deny somebody the opportunity to be happy?... I'm really glad that it passed in those states. I'd like to see it on Ohio's next ballot.

[dingo006]

It is a big step because it happened by popular vote and not because a judge said it was a right. I mean it shows that actual minds are changing and not just educated people in power.

[Sir Suomi]

I am not liking what our country is becoming. Legalizing marijuana, abortions, and now this. I know, call me close minded, but I'm not liking how liberal our country is becoming. I am ashamed to say that I don't think our pioneers of our country would approve of our country. Sure, equal rights is good. But I think this is just too much. I'm just thankful that Nebraska will always be conservative. Sadly, it might be one of the last few true conservative states.

[DarkWingedAngel]

That is absolutely awesome and I officially love that place:)

[Sir Suomi]

Oh, leave me negative rep, huh? Just for voicing my opinion? You could at least have the balls to leave your name.

[Sugaree]

I am not liking what our country is becoming. Legalizing marijuana, abortions, and now this. I know, call me close minded, but I'm not liking how liberal our country is becoming. I am ashamed to say that I don't think our pioneers of our country would approve of our country. Sure, equal rights is good. But I think this is just too much. I'm just thankful that Nebraska will always be conservative. Sadly, it might be one of the last few true conservative states.

Conservative social values are fucked up, man. Why do you think this is a bad thing? Marijuana isn't a bad thing for recreational or medical use, abortions do need to be allowed in some cases, and marriage is a human right. What is so liberal about wanting these things done?

[Haufen]

Oh, leave me negative rep, huh? Just for voicing my opinion? You could at least have the balls to leave your name.

Don't bother, these people claim to be so tolerant, but when you voice your opinion they will resort to personal attacks and would love to see your opinion be banned.

Such is the way of the narrow-minded and hypocritical authoritarian cultural-marxist.

[Sugaree]

Don't bother, these people claim to be so tolerant, but when you voice your opinion they will resort to personal attacks and would love to see your opinion be banned.

Such is the way of the narrow-minded and hypocritical authoritarian cultural-marxist.

VT is mostly butthurt liberals trying to play the victims. Admittedly, I've played that role before and am ashamed of it. However, I just don't see why opinions that are obviously anti-progressive should be considered. It's better to move forward than to just stay where you are.

[Stronger]

I am not liking what our country is becoming. Legalizing marijuana, abortions, and now this. I know, call me close minded, but I'm not liking how liberal our country is becoming. I am ashamed to say that I don't think our pioneers of our country would approve of our country. Sure, equal rights is good. But I think this is just too much. I'm just thankful that Nebraska will always be conservative. Sadly, it might be one of the last few true conservative states.

I think the phrase is called "Times Have Changed" something like that, maybe not now, tomorrow, or the next year, but I think every state will change, maybe our "pioneers" may not be happy with what we did, but that was once apon a time ago. Who knows Nebraska could always change.

[Haufen]

It's better to move forward than to just stay where you are.

Yes but what is forward? And what is staying where you are? That's different for everyone.

[Chaos42]

You can't run. Country like it's fucking 1776, because it's not. This is 2012.

"our forefathers are nothing but dust now"
--Fun.

[Sir Suomi]

I think the phrase is called "Times Have Changed" something like that, maybe not now, tomorrow, or the next year, but I think every state will change, maybe our "pioneers" may not be happy with what we did, but that was once apon a time ago. Who knows Nebraska could always change.

Sorry, but I really don't think Nebraska ever will. It's just we don't prefer very liberal things. But don't get me wrong, I have no problem with homosexuals, as long as they keep it to themselves. And as for marijuana, it SHOULD be illegal. Trust me, I've seen people fuck their lives up getting addicted to it. I don't care what "medical" purposes it may have. In the end, it will ruin more lives than help by legalizing it. And with abortions, I do believe in certain cases, it should be allowed. I just believe that it should only be allowed in certain cases where it's needed, like in early teen preganncies. I've voiced my opinion on this before, and my opinion is still the same.

[Sugaree]

Yes but what is forward? And what is staying where you are? That's different for everyone.

True, that's a good point. I don't have anything else to add.

And as for marijuana, it SHOULD be illegal. Trust me, I've seen people fuck their lives up getting addicted to it. I don't care what "medical" purposes it may have. In the end, it will ruin more lives than help by legalizing it.

It's damn near impossible to be addicted to marijuana. The only people who become addicted to any substance have no self control. In the United States, it's more probable that you'll become addicted to tobacco (which is a legal substance, mind you) than to marijuana. Only 4% of people who have actually tried marijuana have become addicted to it. Addiction to marijuana also stems itself on psychological and social dependency, which is more than likely how people you know have become addicted.

If anything, marijuana is the least addictive drug you could obtain. It's easily seen that cocaine, heroine, acid, and a variety of pills are more addictive. Making marijuana illegal only makes people flock to it more. If the country were to legalize, regulate, and tax it for recreational and medical uses, no one would have an issue. You also need to know that marijuana has helped cancer patients, multiple sclerosis patients, PTSD victims, and even some people who have ADD/ADHD. It's not a bad thing if we regulate it safely.

[Sir Suomi]

True, that's a good point. I don't have anything else to add.



It's damn near impossible to be addicted to marijuana. The only people who become addicted to any substance have no self control. In the United States, it's more probable that you'll become addicted to tobacco (which is a legal substance, mind you) than to marijuana. Only 4% of people who have actually tried marijuana have become addicted to it. Addiction to marijuana also stems itself on psychological and social dependency, which is more than likely how people you know have become addicted.

If anything, marijuana is the least addictive drug you could obtain. It's easily seen that cocaine, heroine, acid, and a variety of pills are more addictive. Making marijuana illegal only makes people flock to it more. If the country were to legalize, regulate, and tax it for recreational and medical uses, no one would have an issue. You also need to know that marijuana has helped cancer patients, multiple sclerosis patients, PTSD victims, and even some people who have ADD/ADHD. It's not a bad thing if we regulate it safely.

No. You obviously have not seen what it's done to people. Used to have a good friend, amazing at sports, specifically track. But he started doing marijuana last year. Now, his lungs are so fucked up, he can barely go on a light jog without almost having a heart attack. He's unmotivated, and his grades used to be high B's and A's. Now he's a D student, and he'll be lucky if he will graduate high school. Now you tell me, do you want this to happen to even MORE people by having our government allow marijuana? Now, I will admit, tobacco is bad, and also should be cut off. But still, marijuana isn't "harmless" as your trying to make it sound like.

[Sugaree]

No. You obviously have not seen what it's done to people. Used to have a good friend, amazing at sports, specifically track. But he started doing marijuana last year. Now, his lungs are so fucked up, he can barely go on a light jog without almost having a heart attack. He's unmotivated, and his grades used to be high B's and A's. Now he's a D student, and he'll be lucky if he will graduate high school. Now you tell me, do you want this to happen to even MORE people by having our government allow marijuana? Now, I will admit, tobacco is bad, and also should be cut off. But still, marijuana isn't "harmless" as your trying to make it sound like.

You're using an extreme case to typify everyone else. I use marijuana a few times a month, yet I'm still able to pull good grades and retain my breathing skills. There's plenty of people like me out there who use marijuana responsibly. What you're doing is taking one case, specifically your ex-friend, by saying "See! It's an addictive drug and this happens to everyone who uses weed!". It's not true at all. I never said marijuana itself was harmless; it depends on the content of THC inside the drug that makes it harmful. The majority of marijuana, however, is so low in THC that it just numbs you and keeps you calm.

Of course I don't want what happened to your ex-friend to happen to everyone who smokes marijuana. I want those people to get help for their problems and try to retain some success in their life. But your attitude of keeping it illegal based on just what you've seen, and not looking at medical studies which prove the effectiveness of marijuana, is backwards thinking. Think about what happened during Prohibition. People still got their alcohol through underground sources. The same goes for marijuana in the 21st century. We're making the same mistake we did back in the 1920s. I'm not saying to make it completely free for everybody. It needs to be taxed and regulated properly so people have access to it but also are aware of the potential consequences.

[Sir Suomi]

You're using an extreme case to typify everyone else. I use marijuana a few times a month, yet I'm still able to pull good grades and retain my breathing skills. There's plenty of people like me out there who use marijuana responsibly. What you're doing is taking one case, specifically your ex-friend, by saying "See! It's an addictive drug and this happens to everyone who uses weed!". It's not true at all. I never said marijuana itself was harmless; it depends on the content of THC inside the drug that makes it harmful. The majority of marijuana, however, is so low in THC that it just numbs you and keeps you calm.

Of course I don't want what happened to your ex-friend to happen to everyone who smokes marijuana. I want those people to get help for their problems and try to retain some success in their life. But your attitude of keeping it illegal based on just what you've seen, and not looking at medical studies which prove the effectiveness of marijuana, is backwards thinking. Think about what happened during Prohibition. People still got their alcohol through underground sources. The same goes for marijuana in the 21st century. We're making the same mistake we did back in the 1920s. I'm not saying to make it completely free for everybody. It needs to be taxed and regulated properly so people have access to it but also are aware of the potential consequences.

Still, why would you need a drug just to make you happy? Even if it doesn't do to you what it did to my friend, it's still bad if the only way to feel bliss or happiness is to rely on a drug to do it for you. And I know that marijuana is sold underground. I see it happen almost every where. And legalizing it, wouldn't technically even completely stop the drug trade. Besides, lot's of people who start doing big time drugs start off with small drugs, such as marijuana. Legalizing it would just make things escalade.

[Sugaree]

Still, why would you need a drug just to make you happy? Even if it doesn't do to you what it did to my friend, it's still bad if the only way to feel bliss or happiness is to rely on a drug to do it for you. And I know that marijuana is sold underground. I see it happen almost every where. And legalizing it, wouldn't technically even completely stop the drug trade. Besides, lot's of people who start doing big time drugs start off with small drugs, such as marijuana. Legalizing it would just make things escalade.

Why would one need cigarettes to make them happy? Why would someone need books or music or various other hobbies to make them happy? Sure, weed can make you happy. Hell, it sends me to fits of laughter and makes me feel on top of the world. Smoking marijuana is like smoking a cigarette. For many people, cigarettes are used to relax or let stress out; why can't they do that with marijuana? It does the exact same thing to a greater degree.

What you're not getting about the underground drug trade is that it's made harder to get drugs. If the government were to legalize marijuana, it would make it easier for people to get it because it is a legally approved substance. It's easy enough to get cigarettes and alcohol. Look at how alcohol was prohibited and all the people who died from poisoned batches of beer and wine. More people died during prohibition as a result of alcohol poisoning (in which it wasn't their fault because the batches contained actual poisonous material) than after prohibition. There's weed that's homemade and contains a lot of nasty shit that can do someone's health in in an instant. No, it wouldn't full stop the marijuana trade, but it WOULD take away a very large amount of business from it.

[deadpie]

Legalizing marijuana, abortions, and now this.

MARIJUANA. ABORTIONS. AND NOW THIS!! DUN DUN DUN. GAY PEOPLE HAVING THE RIGHT TO MARRY OTHER GAY PEOPLE!! AHHHHHH!!! HOLY SHIT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE BECAUSE OF THIS! OH NO! SO MUCH KILLING AND MURDER! DON'T YOU KNOW GAY MARRIAGE = BAD SHIT? AH!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

like i seriously don't get what the problem is. Your morals? The Bible says it's wrong? Your parents say it's wrong? But really is this going to harm anyone? I mean I can understand conservatives being dorks saying marijuana will kill you and make you an addict or abortions is baby killin', but there's no danger to homosexuals having rights.

I REALLY DO NOT GET THIS. SOMEONE EXPLAIN.

I am ashamed to say that I don't think our pioneers of our country would approve of our country.

yeah dude let's go back to slavery and the days where black people were treated like complete shit that is what i call progress and awesome stuff you're a genius

equal rights is good. But I think this is just too much.

What does that even mean you think it's good but too much? Are you calling yourself out on your own BS? Are you saying too much of a good thing is bad? Too many equal rights is a bad thing? You are for BAD THINGS?

HMMMMMMMMMMM

Awesome debate sir

[Sir Suomi]

Why would one need cigarettes to make them happy? Why would someone need books or music or various other hobbies to make them happy? Sure, weed can make you happy. Hell, it sends me to fits of laughter and makes me feel on top of the world. Smoking marijuana is like smoking a cigarette. For many people, cigarettes are used to relax or let stress out; why can't they do that with marijuana? It does the exact same thing to a greater degree.

What you're not getting about the underground drug trade is that it's made harder to get drugs. If the government were to legalize marijuana, it would make it easier for people to get it because it is a legally approved substance. It's easy enough to get cigarettes and alcohol. Look at how alcohol was prohibited and all the people who died from poisoned batches of beer and wine. More people died during prohibition as a result of alcohol poisoning (in which it wasn't their fault because the batches contained actual poisonous material) than after prohibition. There's weed that's homemade and contains a lot of nasty shit that can do someone's health in in an instant. No, it wouldn't full stop the marijuana trade, but it WOULD take away a very large amount of business from it.

Good points. But still, legalizing marijuana would only convince more people to get into smoking it. Sure, if someone really wants it, they can go and find the right people. But let's say that they are possibly intrested in trying it. But they don't want to go into the possible dangers of finding a dealer, so this idea is forgotten about and discarded, and the person hopefully does not have any more wants of marijuana. It's like with cigararetts: The harder they are to obtain, the less likely someone will become intrested in them. So by keeping it illegal, hopefully less people will become pot-smokers. And it IS harmful. Sure, if it's in small doses, it won't have too severe consequences. But when it's constantly done, it WILL have side effects that WILL affect brain function and other organ functions. In the long run, it's like handing a inexperienced person a loaded gun, and pointing at some targets for it to shoot. Sure, they probably would do the right things, and not get hurt. But some of them might do something wrong, and next thing you know, they end up injured or worse. In the end, marijuana is just wrong.

MARIJUANA. ABORTIONS. AND NOW THIS!! DUN DUN DUN. GAY PEOPLE HAVING THE RIGHT TO MARRY OTHER GAY PEOPLE!! AHHHHHH!!! HOLY SHIT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO DIE BECAUSE OF THIS! OH NO! SO MUCH KILLING AND MURDER! DON'T YOU KNOW GAY MARRIAGE = BAD SHIT? AH!!!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

like i seriously don't get what the problem is. Your morals? The Bible says it's wrong? Your parents say it's wrong? But really is this going to harm anyone? I mean I can understand conservatives being dorks saying marijuana will kill you and make you an addict or abortions is baby killin', but there's no danger to homosexuals having rights.

I REALLY DO NOT GET THIS. SOMEONE EXPLAIN.



yeah dude let's go back to slavery and the days where black people were treated like complete shit that is what i call progress and awesome stuff you're a genius



What does that even mean you think it's good but too much? Are you calling yourself out on your own BS? Are you saying too much of a good thing is bad? Too many equal rights is a bad thing? You are for BAD THINGS?

HMMMMMMMMMMM

Awesome debate sir

-_- Sir, I'm going to try and forget what you have said. At least Dakota is actually trying to be reasonable with his argument, and for that I respect him. But for you, I have no respect. As for my beliefs, even if I was not christian, I would still not believe in same sex marriage. I have no problem if two men or two women love each other. I am happy for them. But when it comes to marriage, it is just a sacred thing, that should be between a man, and his wife. I'm not saying that homosexuals shouldn't be able to be with each other. If they decide to go down that road, that is their choice. I'm not going to be one of those christians who believes that anyone who does not believe in God should be persecuted. I believe that humans should be allowed to love who they choose, which is their God-given right. But like I said, marriage is just something that you should not mess with. As for legalizing marijuana, I've already presented my case to Dakota. And as for abortions, as I have stated repeatedly in the past, I believe that if it's the case in where the women was forcefully raped, or the mother is so young that neither her nor the child would likely survive, it could be allowed. I just don't want to see women running around having unprotected sex with men, and when they face the consequences, that they avoid the burden of pregnancy, and abort the fetus. Now, if you wish to try and continue to argue with me, at least try to be mature about it.

[deadpie]

But for you, I have no respect.

Not offended man. I'm a pretty hated person anyways. :D

As for my beliefs, even if I was not christian, I would still not believe in same sex marriage. I have no problem if two men or two women love each other. I am happy for them. But when it comes to marriage, it is just a sacred thing

So this is why you have no respect for me. Because you think marriage is just too "sacred" to be altered.

Maybe we should think about how sacred marriage is. Do you know the divorce rates in America? Isn't it like half of marriages end in divorce? Do you think people really give a shit about anything being sacred in marriage?

You know for a very long time women had no rights in a marriage. That's sacred?

People get remarried over and over and OVER! THAT IS NOT SACRED!

Now let's talk about religion.

God's rules for disposing of hated wives.

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate.... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. -- Deuteronomy 22:13

It is better not to marry. But if you must have sex, then get married. It's better to be married than burn forever in hell.
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. -- 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

For I would that all men were even as I myself.... I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. -- 1 Corinthians 7:7-9

If you're not already married, don't get married. If you have a wife, don't have sex with her. There's not enough time since Jesus is coming soon.
Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. -- 1 Corinthians 7:27

But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none. -- 1 Corinthians 7:29


Now, if you wish to try and continue to argue with me, at least try to be mature about it.

dude, poop jokes are the best way to argue. Humor and debates go really well together.

[Sir Suomi]

Not offended man. I'm a pretty hated person anyways. :D



So this is why you have no respect for me. Because you think marriage is just too "sacred" to be altered.

Maybe we should think about how sacred marriage is. Do you know the divorce rates in America? Isn't it like half of marriages end in divorce? Do you think people really give a shit about anything being sacred in marriage?

You know for a very long time women had no rights in a marriage. That's sacred?

People get remarried over and over and OVER! THAT IS NOT SACRED!

Now let's talk about religion.

God's rules for disposing of hated wives.

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate.... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. -- Deuteronomy 22:13

It is better not to marry. But if you must have sex, then get married. It's better to be married than burn forever in hell.
It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. -- 1 Corinthians 7:1-2

For I would that all men were even as I myself.... I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. -- 1 Corinthians 7:7-9

If you're not already married, don't get married. If you have a wife, don't have sex with her. There's not enough time since Jesus is coming soon.
Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. -- 1 Corinthians 7:27

But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none. -- 1 Corinthians 7:29




dude, poop jokes are the best way to argue. Humor and debates go really well together.

You do have a point. Marriage traditions have changed, along with other things. And to an extent, change is a good thing. But how long is it until things are changed TOO far, to where what we started off, becomes completely irrelevant? That is where we are today in my opinion. Sure, others may argue that the change we are undergoing is good. Others may argue that it still isn't enough. But I think we are past the point of return for many people. And you more than likely have been raised differently than me, and obviously have different moral values than I. There is nothing wrong with this, and that aspect I shall respect. But from my point of view, and from many of the people who live in the state of Nebraska, the modern world is a bad place. We try to be professional, hard working, and good people. Sure, we have a lot of bad apples, but I think it show's how effective our state is, with one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country, our Unicameral government, and just how people treat one another for the most part.

[Gigablue]

This has turned into a debate. VT Daily Chronicle :arrow: ROTW

[deadpie]

You do have a point. Marriage traditions have changed, along with other things. And to an extent, change is a good thing.

So are you saying divorce, remarriage, no women having rights in marriages, those are good things?

but how long is it until things are changed TOO far, to where what we started off, becomes completely irrelevant?

You really think that equal rights for gay marriage is going to change everything? It simply makes the definition a little bit different and IMO much less offensive against people who aren't straight. This is a right people deserve to have. Your only debate is that it's too 'sacred'. When did it become sacred? When did it gain its sacredness? Did it magically lose all of it because of gay marriage? Not at the beginning when the Bible commanded rape victims to be married to their abusers? I mean that's certainly not sacred.


But from my point of view, and from many of the people who live in the state of Nebraska, the modern world is a bad place.

Dude, I was raised in Texas to a Catholic family where I was sexually abused for four years. I am gay. I have had experiences in my life that most people don't go through their entire lives. I've been through hell. I think I personally know what is right and wrong. Yes, I do think the world is a bad place, but probably for different reasons than you do. I think people that rape, kill, who discriminate and judge the living shit out of others to make others lives worse make this world shit.

We try to be professional, hard working, and good people.

So everyone out of Nebraska isn't professional, hard working, good people? Or maybe what you mean is everyone that isn't a conservative isn't a professional hard working good person. That's probably what you mean. That is discrimination and judgemental.


Sure, we have a lot of bad apples, but I think it show's how effective our state is, with one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country, our Unicameral government, and just how people treat one another for the most part.

This literally has nothing to do with my questions on gay marriage or how you back up how sacred marriage is. That's the only thing I had a question about and the only thing I'm interested in debating here because I don't get anyone's points against it.

[Sir Suomi]

So are you saying divorce, remarriage, no women having rights in marriages, those are good things?



You really think that equal rights for gay marriage is going to change everything? It simply makes the definition a little bit different and IMO much less offensive against people who aren't straight. This is a right people deserve to have. Your only debate is that it's too 'sacred'. When did it become sacred? When did it gain its sacredness? Did it magically lose all of it because of gay marriage? Not at the beginning when the Bible commanded rape victims to be married to their abusers? I mean that's certainly not sacred.


Dude, I was raised in Texas to a Catholic family where I was sexually abused for four years. I am gay. I have had experiences in my life that most people don't go through their entire lives. I've been through hell. I think I personally know what is right and wrong. Yes, I do think the world is a bad place, but probably for different reasons than you do. I think people that rape, kill, who discriminate and judge the living shit out of others to make others lives worse make this world shit.



So everyone out of Nebraska isn't professional, hard working, good people? Or maybe what you mean is everyone that isn't a conservative isn't a professional hard working good person. That's probably what you mean. That is discrimination and judgemental.




This literally has nothing to do with my questions on gay marriage or how you back up how sacred marriage is. That's the only thing I had a question about and the only thing I'm interested in debating here because I don't get anyone's points against it.

Damn, you are good at debating, arn't you :P
Anyways, when did I ever say divorces, domestic abuse, and rape was a good thing? And when I say marriage is sacred, I mean that it has been traditionally put between a man and a women. Now, when I refer to traditional, I do not mean back when men beat each other to sticks. I meant that how America was founded. Now, yes, times have changed A LOT since then, but I just think America is not ready for nationwide same sex marriages.

[Gigablue]

Damn, you are good at debating, arn't you :P
Anyways, when did I ever say divorces, domestic abuse, and rape was a good thing? And when I say marriage is sacred, I mean that it has been traditionally put between a man and a women. Now, when I refer to traditional, I do not mean back when men beat each other to sticks. I meant that how America was founded. Now, yes, times have changed A LOT since then, but I just think America is not ready for nationwide same sex marriages.

What's so good about tradition? Things change, and tradition that discriminate need to disappear. Also, would anything bad happen if same sex marriage become legal? No. People of the same sex would be able to get married. You make it would as if society would collapse.

[deadpie]

Damn, you are good at debating, arn't you :P
Anyways, when did I ever say divorces, domestic abuse, and rape was a good thing? And when I say marriage is sacred, I mean that it has been traditionally put between a man and a women. Now, when I refer to traditional, I do not mean back when men beat each other to sticks. I meant that how America was founded. Now, yes, times have changed A LOT since then, but I just think America is not ready for nationwide same sex marriages.

You're not really putting a good reason up to as why we're not ready. You've already abandoned your view on it being sacred now in this debate. I think you're started to realize your argument is garbage and not willing to change your views because that's probably scary for you. It's not a bad thing to do. Evolving as a person is a good thing.

[Stronger]

Sorry, but I really don't think Nebraska ever will. It's just we don't prefer very liberal things. But don't get me wrong, I have no problem with homosexuals, as long as they keep it to themselves. And as for marijuana, it SHOULD be illegal. Trust me, I've seen people fuck their lives up getting addicted to it. I don't care what "medical" purposes it may have. In the end, it will ruin more lives than help by legalizing it. And with abortions, I do believe in certain cases, it should be allowed. I just believe that it should only be allowed in certain cases where it's needed, like in early teen preganncies. I've voiced my opinion on this before, and my opinion is still the same.

You're probably right, I'm just stating my opinion, I know nothing of Nebraska anyway, and I have no opinion on medical marijuana, I mean I guess its okay for medical use, but it is what it is, as for abortion, I believe it should be allowed, but once it get to a certain point, I think its called "late abortion" then I think that's going to far.