The 2012 Presidential Race

[Cicero]

If your interested in who's winning so far click this link (http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/2012/romney-vs-obama-electoral-map).

You Decide 2012

Updates as of today (Nov. 3, 2012):
New Hampshire (N.H.) went from 'Leans Obama' to 'Tossup'
Oregon (Ore.) went from 'Strong Obama' to 'Leans Obama'
Pennsylvania (Pa.) went from 'Strong Obama' to 'Leans Obama'

Obama is winning with 277 Electoral Votes (as of Nov. 3, 2012)
Romney is winning with 191 Electoral Votes (as of Nov. 3, 2012)

Obama's Strongest State: California (55 Electoral Votes)
Romney's Strongest State: Texas (38 Electoral Votes)

Ohio's currently 'Leans Obama' with Obama winning 49% and Romney winning with 46% (as of Nov. 3, 2012). The heat is on for both candidates. If Romney wins all of the Electoral Votes in the 'Tossup' section, Obama will still have the lead with 276 Electoral Votes. If Nevada becomes a 'Tossup' and Romney wins all the other 'Tossup' states, it will be a Tie. With both candidates having 270 Electoral Votes.

Romney is promising the following, if he wins:

Grant permanent residency to eligible graduates with advanced degrees in math, science, and engineering (Pertaining to
Make permanent, across-the-board 20 percent cut in marginal rates
Nothing changes for current seniors or those nearing retirement (Medicare)
Lower income seniors will receive more generous support to ensure that they can afford coverage; wealthier seniors will receive less support (Medicare)
Empower states to control onshore energy development

Courtesy of mittromney.com

Obama is promising the following, if he wins:

Makes sure millionaires aren’t paying lower tax rates than middle class families, but instead pay the same rate as under President Clinton
Will invest in education, research and technology to grow the economy for the long term
President Obama is working aggressively to grow the clean energy economy that is supporting jobs in rural American, and he’s investing in ways to help lower energy costs. Under President Obama, U.S. biofuel production is at its highest level in history and thousands of farmers, ranchers and rural businesses are working with USDA to help save energy and improve their bottom lines.
Responsibly ended the war in Iraq , is bringing our troops home from Afghanistan, and will use half the savings to reduce the deficit and the rest to engage in nation-building here at home
President Obama has a long-term economic plan to invest in education, small businesses, clean energy, infrastructure, and tax cuts for companies that bring jobs back to the U.S.

Courtesy of obama.com

The Facts
Unemployment Rate: 9% (2011 est.)
Revenues (Budget): $2.303 Trillion (2011 est.)
Expenditures (Budget): $3.599 Trillion (2011 est.)
Inflation Rate: 3.1% (2011 est.)
500,000 Manufacturing Jobs were lost within the first 3 1/2 years of Obama's first term
Every $1 dollar, we owe $0.30 of it

(Courtesy of cia.gov and dol.gov)

Getting to know the Candidates:

Barack Obama

http://www.barackobama.net/pictures/barack-obama-1.jpg

Full Name: Barack Hussein Obama II
Born: August 4, 1961 (Age 51) Honolulu, Hawaii
Education: Harvard Law School (1988-1991) Columbia University (1981-1983) Occidental College (1979-1981) Punahou School (1979)
Children: Natasha Obama and Malia Ann Obama
Net Worth: +$9 Million

Courtesy of snopes.com and Google search

Mitt Romney

http://reason.com/assets/mc/mriggs/MittRomneyProfilePic.jpg

Full Name: Willard Mitt Romney
Born: March 12, 1947 (Age 65) Detroit,
Height: 6' 2" (1.88 m)
Spouse: Ann Romney (M. 1969)
Children: Tagg Romney, Josh Romney, Ben Romney, Matt Romney, Craig Romney
Education: Harvard Business School (1975) Harvard Law School (1975) Brigham Young University (1971) Stanford University (1965-1966) Cranbrook Schools (1965) Harvard University
Net Worth: $150-$200 Million

Courtesy of snopes.com and Google search

I hand typed all of this and hand gathered all of the information, which took about an hour and a half to do. All sites that I got the information from has been listed.

[TheBigUnit]

You really outdone urself here,
Trust me Penn. Is more of a tossup than ohio which favors obama,
Romneys site really said tht? Tht guy I swear changed his mind every week :(

[Cicero]

You really outdone urself here,
Trust me Penn. Is more of a tossup than ohio which favors obama,
Romneys site really said tht? Tht guy I swear changed his mind every week :(

He doesn't change his mind to much, he did change his mind on certain matters like abortion in 2000 I believe, which was 12 years ago, so thats not 'every week' and thats barely even consistently. The media made him look like he's changed his mind every few years, which he hasn't on a lot of the issues.

And thank you :) i worked pretty hard on this thread.

[Noirtier]

He doesn't change his mind to much, he did change his mind on certain matters like abortion in 2000 I believe, which was 12 years ago, so thats not 'every week' and thats barely even consistently. The media made him look like he's changed his mind every few years, which he hasn't on a lot of the issues.

And thank you :) i worked pretty hard on this thread.

I would like to point out though that if there is a tie in the electoral college, both candidates have 269 votes, not 270. 270 is the minimum to win the presidency, and there are a total of 538 electoral votes. Divide that in half, and you get 269 :P Other than that, you did a very good job making this thread and putting the information together in an unbiased way!

[Gordo]

Not sure either of them can do what needs to be done.

[TheBigUnit]

He doesn't change his mind to much, he did change his mind on certain matters like abortion in 2000 I believe, which was 12 years ago, so thats not 'every week' and thats barely even consistently. The media made him look like he's changed his mind every few years, which he hasn't on a lot of the issues.

And thank you :) i worked pretty hard on this thread.

I thought romney said he was cutting most benefits from medicare,

[Professional Russian]

From what your first link says obama is going to win. all im going to say is that we are fucked ifhe wins. he has made everything worse. 9% unemployment and added $6 Trillion to the debt. yeah if we have 4 more years of obama im out of a job, everyone else it out of a job, no one will have money and this country will be fucked. Have fun im going to russia if you need me...

[Sugaree]

From what your first link says obama is going to win. all im going to say is that we are fucked ifhe wins. he has made everything worse. 9% unemployment and added $6 Trillion to the debt. yeah if we have 4 more years of obama im out of a job, everyone else it out of a job, no one will have money and this country will be fucked. Have fun im going to russia if you need me...

Romney would make it just as worse. Both he and Obama have bad track records when it comes to protecting civil liberties and are only differ in party affiliation. You bad talk Obama so much, yet Romney is just as worse.

Also, OP forgot Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.

[Professional Russian]

Romney would make it just as worse. Both he and Obama have bad track records when it comes to protecting civil liberties and are only differ in party affiliation. You bad talk Obama so much, yet Romney is just as worse.

Also, OP forgot Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.

I never said Romney Did. wait let me look at my post...no i never said a thing about romney. neither of them deserve office i dont want either of them in office. i want Bush back atleast everything was better when he was in office

[Sugaree]

I never said Romney Did. wait let me look at my post...no i never said a thing about romney. neither of them deserve office i dont want either of them in office. i want Bush back atleast everything was better when he was in office

Are you fucking kidding me? Bush had led a nation under mass hysteria and just ran with it. Under Bush, you had the Patriot Act, NDAA, and countless civil liberties stripped. He was also controlling a government which was forcing banks to make loans they knew were too risky. He's not to blame for it all, but it happened on HIS watch and he knew it was happening. He's just as much to blame as the Federal Reserve.

[Professional Russian]

Are you fucking kidding me? Bush had led a nation under mass hysteria and just ran with it. Under Bush, you had the Patriot Act, NDAA, and countless civil liberties stripped. He was also controlling a government which was forcing banks to make loans they knew were too risky. He's not to blame for it all, but it happened on HIS watch and he knew it was happening. He's just as much to blame as the Federal Reserve.

Atleast we didnt have 9% unemployment and an extra 6 trillion dollars in the national debt. hell gas was only $1.80 a gallon with bush. he wasnt the best but he sure as hell wasnt the worst

[Sugaree]

Atleast we didnt have 9% unemployment and an extra 6 trillion dollars in the national debt. hell gas was only $1.80 a gallon with bush. he wasnt the best but he sure as hell wasnt the worst

We were also losing 800,000 jobs a month in his last year in office (that was the peak). We were then approaching about 6 trillion in debt with billions being pumped into Afghanistan and Iraq without any results. We were throwing money at problems and expecting new results. But no, that's all fine as long as gas was under 2 dollars.

[Professional Russian]

We were also losing 800,000 jobs a month in his last year in office (that was the peak). We were then approaching about 6 trillion in debt with billions being pumped into Afghanistan and Iraq without any results. We were throwing money at problems and expecting new results. But no, that's all fine as long as gas was under 2 dollars.

NO bush only added 500 billion dollars to the debt. obama added 6 trillion to the debt himself

[Sugaree]

NO bush only added 500 billion dollars to the debt. obama added 6 trillion to the debt himself

Allow me to correct myself. We were actually 4.9 trillion in debt by the end of Bush's residency. So, tell me again how much debt Bush added?

[Professional Russian]

Allow me to correct myself. We were actually 4.9 trillion in debt by the end of Bush's residency. So, tell me again how much debt Bush added?

Oh god forbid i mix up 2 numbers (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/) obama has added more in less time than bush though

[Sugaree]

Oh god forbid i mix up 2 numbers (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/) obama has added more in less time than bush though

At least come in with your facts straight. I never contested that Obama has added more or less than Bush.

[Lost in the Echo]

From what your first link says obama is going to win. all im going to say is that we are fucked ifhe wins. he has made everything worse. 9% unemployment and added $6 Trillion to the debt. yeah if we have 4 more years of obama im out of a job, everyone else it out of a job, no one will have money and this country will be fucked. Have fun im going to russia if you need me...

Damn dude, I agree completely!!! I really don't know how people can vote for Barack Obama, after all the shit he's fucked up! It doesn't make any fucking sense!

I was rooting for Mitt Romney, but it's not looking good. It seems like people in this world keep getting even fucking stupider. Damn this pisses me the fuck off!

[Sugaree]

Damn dude, I agree completely!!! I really don't know how people can vote for Barack Obama, after all the shit he's fucked up! It doesn't make any fucking sense!

I was rooting for Mitt Romney, but it's not looking good. It seems like people in this world keep getting even fucking stupider. Damn this pisses me the fuck off!

You're just as stupid as an Obama supporter. Just stop while you're all behind.

[Lost in the Echo]

You're just as stupid as an Obama supporter. Just stop while you're all behind.

All the debt and unemployment and shit Obama has caused, has completely fucked up the economy, you would be stupid to vote for another for another 4 years of that, in my opinion.

Now, how am I stupid?

I just don't want our economy to suffer anymore, because that's what will happen if Obama is re-elected.

[Professional Russian]

You're just as stupid as an Obama supporter. Just stop while you're all behind.

Here im going to make easy for everyone on the site to understand. Neither of them deserve office. Obama sucks, Romney Sucks. there. anymore questions?

[Sugaree]

All the debt and unemployment and shit Obama has caused, has completely fucked up the economy, you would be stupid to vote for another for another 4 years of that, in my opinion.

Now, how am I stupid?

I just don't want our economy to suffer anymore, because that's what will happen if Obama is re-elected.

>all the debt
>all the unemployment
>all the bad stuff
>Obama is to blame, even though he was inaugurated with all of this going on

In Obama's defense, he DID inherit a very bad situation. Sure, he made it worse, but how did he cause it? He was only a Senator when it started! So I suppose then-Senator Obama is to blame...just because he's Obama. Yeah, I'll stand by what I said and say you're stupid.

How are you stupid? Oh boy, let me count the ways darling!

1. You've already assumed I'm voting Obama.

2. You have obviously done no independent research on the situation we're in, nor have you tried to get even the most basic understanding of how a free market economy works. Don't even try to touch unemployment if you can't understand the economy.

3. You've obviously been ingrained into the modern fringe conservative way of thinking, so you're against anything Obama does simply because he does it. That's all well and good, but you ARE giving conservatives a bad name.

4. You have no facts. I'll give this much to Robert, at least he's gotten into the practice of sharing sources for his opinions. You, on the other hand, spout off angrily at the mere mention of Obama like you just did. I take these types of posts much less seriously.

[Professional Russian]

>all the debt
>all the unemployment
>all the bad stuff
>Obama is to blame, even though he was inaugurated with all of this going on

In Obama's defense, he DID inherit a very bad situation. Sure, he made it worse, but how did he cause it? He was only a Senator when it started! So I suppose then-Senator Obama is to blame...just because he's Obama. Yeah, I'll stand by what I said and say you're stupid.

How are you stupid? Oh boy, let me count the ways darling!

1. You've already assumed I'm voting Obama.

2. You have obviously done no independent research on the situation we're in, nor have you tried to get even the most basic understanding of how a free market economy works. Don't even try to touch unemployment if you can't understand the economy.

3. You've obviously been ingrained into the modern fringe conservative way of thinking, so you're against anything Obama does simply because he does it. That's all well and good, but you ARE giving conservatives a bad name.

4. You have no facts. I'll give this much to Robert, at least he's gotten into the practice of sharing sources for his opinions. You, on the other hand, spout off angrily at the mere mention of Obama like you just did. I take these types of posts much less seriously.

I do not dislike everything Obama has done...at least he didn't pass SOPA or we wouldn't be having this debate. And if he'd make gay marriage legal I'd like him more. If he made gay marriage I wouldn't have to hear the bitching about it

[Lost in the Echo]

>all the debt
>all the unemployment
>all the bad stuff
>Obama is to blame, even though he was inaugurated with all of this going on

In Obama's defense, he DID inherit a very bad situation. Sure, he made it worse, but how did he cause it? He was only a Senator when it started! So I suppose then-Senator Obama is to blame...just because he's Obama. Yeah, I'll stand by what I said and say you're stupid.

How are you stupid? Oh boy, let me count the ways darling!

1. You've already assumed I'm voting Obama.

2. You have obviously done no independent research on the situation we're in, nor have you tried to get even the most basic understanding of how a free market economy works. Don't even try to touch unemployment if you can't understand the economy.

3. You've obviously been ingrained into the modern fringe conservative way of thinking, so you're against anything Obama does simply because he does it. That's all well and good, but you ARE giving conservatives a bad name.

4. You have no facts. I'll give this much to Robert, at least he's gotten into the practice of sharing sources for his opinions. You, on the other hand, spout off angrily at the mere mention of Obama like you just did. I take these types of posts much less seriously.
Well i'm not into politics and shit, so that's why i'm not providing a link or anything. The economy is all fucked up, and I blame Obama for that, look at all the taxes and shit he's handed out, getting the U.S. trillions of dollars in debt. I should be able to have my opinion without getting bashed, you also violated one of the rules by calling me "stupid", I didn't appreciate that. The fact I am stating is that the U.S. is trillions of dollars in debt, my opinion is that it is Obama is the cause of it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, nobody deserves to get bashed for speaking it.

[Sugaree]

Well i'm not into politics and shit, so that's why i'm not providing a link or anything. The economy is all fucked up, and I blame Obama for that, look at all the taxes and shit he's handed out, getting the U.S. trillions of dollars in debt. I should be able to have my opinion without getting bashed, you also violated one of the rules by calling me "stupid", I didn't appreciate that. The fact I am stating is that the U.S. is trillions of dollars in debt, my opinion is that it is Obama is the cause of it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, nobody deserves to get bashed for speaking it.

I call a spade a spade, darling. I don't care if you like it or not, you WILL get called out. I'm calling you out on obviously knowing nothing about the situation this country is in. I don't expect you to know everything, I don't even expect you to know the bare minimum; but if you're going to come in and start raving how this is all Obama's fault, you need to know what we're dealing with as a nation.

Yes, everyone is entitled to an opinion. But you aren't entitled to make yourself look like an idiot because of your opinion. Opinions are meaningful little things. They give us a voice, define us as thoughtful individuals. However, you can't call statements like yours opinions when there is absolutely no truth to them. You have very little facts to support your opinion, and even those are sketchy at best. Little rants like yours should be called out and not be defended as a solid opinion when they aren't founded almost entirely on factual basis.

You just admitted you don't follow "politics and shit", BUT YOU DAMN WELL KNOW FOR A FACT THAT OBAMA DID ALL THE BAD STUFF TO THE ECONOMY! That's like driving a car without knowing how to drive it. Basically, you called yourself out, and what I'm doing is simply confirming it. If you want to talk politics, please do! I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being serious here. But, please, for the sake of everyone, at least know what you're talking about first before giving an opinion.

[Gigablue]

This is just a reminder to remain civilized. If you all continue insulting each other, this thread will be locked.

[Professional Russian]

This is just a reminder to remain civilized. If you all continue insulting each other, this thread will be locked.

I don't like to argue with mods but I don't see any insulting. I see Matt calling Bo an idiot but that's about it.

[Sugaree]

I don't like to argue with mods but I don't see any insulting. I see Matt calling Bo an idiot but that's about it.

I hurt his feelings, that's enough to be called out as an insult. :rolleyes:

[Professional Russian]

I hurt his feelings, that's enough to be called out as an insult. :rolleyes:

Haha aha so true

[TheBigUnit]

Yes pls do keep this thread, its been a while since I've seen a nice heated debate,

Listen you can't completely blame obama for the debt, as for the reasons stated earlier by dakota, Id vote obama because my whole family is democrat and I'd prefer obamas policies to romneys because they I feel will benefit me more than romneys basically, I'm in the middle class and feel more benefits from democrats than republicans generally, just give obama another 4 years I believe, he shouldve never said about fixing the country in 4 years, but if u listened to romney in the debates , he didn't even say he can in one term either,

That being said JESSE VENTURA 2016, that guy got my vote already

[Sugaree]

Yes pls do keep this thread, its been a while since I've seen a nice heated debate,

Listen you can't completely blame obama for the debt, as for the reasons stated earlier by dakota, Id vote obama because my whole family is democrat and I'd prefer obamas policies to romneys because they I feel will benefit me more than romneys basically, I'm in the middle class and feel more benefits from democrats than republicans generally, just give obama another 4 years I believe, he shouldve never said about fixing the country in 4 years, but if u listened to romney in the debates , he didn't even say he can in one term either,

That being said JESSE VENTURA 2016, that guy got my vote already

Except Obama did go on record to say that if he didn't get the economy stable in his term, that the American people should pick someone else.

[Bath]

I don't like to argue with mods but I don't see any insulting. I see Matt calling Bo an idiot but that's about it.

That's enough for a warning. No one is supposed to call anyone an idiot, that's a personal attack, black and white. No argument.

Adding on to GigaBlue's warning, while debates do get heated, there is no excuse for calling anybody an idiot or stupid. If you guys can't maintain that, then this thread will be locked. This is a great thread with some great discussion, respect each other so it doesn't have to be stopped.

[Magical]

Well i'm not into politics and shit, so that's why i'm not providing a link or anything. The economy is all fucked up, and I blame Obama for that, look at all the taxes and shit he's handed out, getting the U.S. trillions of dollars in debt. I should be able to have my opinion without getting bashed, you also violated one of the rules by calling me "stupid", I didn't appreciate that. The fact I am stating is that the U.S. is trillions of dollars in debt, my opinion is that it is Obama is the cause of it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, nobody deserves to get bashed for speaking it.

OK. The economy is fucked up because of Obama? Not because of the recession under Bush that Obama mostly fixed?

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-07-11/news/30013193_1_budget-deficit-government-spending-tax-collections

I beg to differ.

'look at all the taxes and shit he's handed out, getting the U.S. trillions of dollars in debt.' Oh right. The Republican way of thinking! CUT TAXES = REDUCE DEBT! Just like Bush did in 2001 and 2003 (article above).

And the opinion of the web page would like to differ. You are wrong. No one deserves to be criticised for being wrong? No one deserves to be criticised for being a Nazi?

Except Obama did go on record to say that if he didn't get the economy stable in his term, that the American people should pick someone else.

The economy is kinda stable. It's not rapidly losing jobs like it was under the end of Bush's reign, it's gaining jobs. In fact, there has been a net gain under Obama.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-27/payroll-revisions-signal-economy-has-created-jobs-under-obama.html

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/09/27/920781/new-data-obama-net-positive/?mobile=nc

[Sugaree]

The economy is kinda stable. It's not rapidly losing jobs like it was under the end of Bush's reign, it's gaining jobs. In fact, there has been a net gain under Obama.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-27/payroll-revisions-signal-economy-has-created-jobs-under-obama.html

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/09/27/920781/new-data-obama-net-positive/?mobile=nc

A net gain is good, sure, but we're still a few millions short of actually saying we're making a full turn around. What the Obama campaign is saying is that we've turned around. In all reality, we're about four to five million jobs short of saying we're coming out of the recession. We're getting there, but not quick enough.

[Magical]

A net gain is good, sure, but we're still a few millions short of actually saying we're making a full turn around. What the Obama campaign is saying is that we've turned around. In all reality, we're about four to five million jobs short of saying we're coming out of the recession. We're getting there, but not quick enough.

Not quick enough?

Recovering from the worst recession since the Great Depression - first source on my last post, not quick enough?

:eek:

[Sugaree]

Not quick enough?

Recovering from the worst recession since the Great Depression - first source on my last post, not quick enough?

:eek:

I don't disagree that we're recovering. I can see that we're recovering. I just don't think it's to the standard quality I would expect from a modern day society. I'm not expecting an over night rebound, but I do want to see more progress made in a quicker fashion.

[Magical]

I don't disagree that we're recovering. I can see that we're recovering. I just don't think it's to the standard quality I would expect from a modern day society. I'm not expecting an over night rebound, but I do want to see more progress made in a quicker fashion.

Well, I think you expect too much, but eh. I do not believe that I can change your opinion easily, and I have other FUN things to do. Exams are exciting.

[Professional Russian]

Christ do you guys ever sleep?

[Lost in the Echo]

OK. The economy is fucked up because of Obama? Not because of the recession under Bush that Obama mostly fixed?

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-07-11/news/30013193_1_budget-deficit-government-spending-tax-collections

I beg to differ.

'look at all the taxes and shit he's handed out, getting the U.S. trillions of dollars in debt.' Oh right. The Republican way of thinking! CUT TAXES = REDUCE DEBT! Just like Bush did in 2001 and 2003 (article above).

And the opinion of the web page would like to differ. You are wrong. No one deserves to be criticised for being wrong? No one deserves to be criticised for being a Nazi?



The economy is kinda stable. It's not rapidly losing jobs like it was under the end of Bush's reign, it's gaining jobs. In fact, there has been a net gain under Obama.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-09-27/payroll-revisions-signal-economy-has-created-jobs-under-obama.html

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/09/27/920781/new-data-obama-net-positive/?mobile=nc

The U.S. is more in debt than when he first took office, how is that progress?

[Sugaree]

Christ do you guys ever sleep?

gvdf5n-zI14

The U.S. is more in debt than when he first took office, how is that progress?

Each president has accrued debt in their term. It's inevitable.

[Lost in the Echo]

I hurt his feelings, that's enough to be called out as an insult. :rolleyes:

No, you didn't hurt my feelings, but I didn't appreciate being called "stupid" just for speaking my opinion.

Not trying to argue, but you're making it seem like i'm a pussy, i'm not. My "feelings" don't get hurt if someone insults me, I'm not a kindergartener, I still don't like it though.

Like I said i'm not trying to argue with you, I just wanted to add that.

Also, I can see where you're coming from, you want facts, sorry I can't provide many of those :whoops: Just my opinion:yes:

[Professional Russian]

Very funny-_-

[Lost in the Echo]

Each president has accrued debt in their term. It's inevitable.

But he's made it worse :mad: Not better :(

[Sugaree]

But he's made it worse :mad: Not better :(

Yes, but you can't blame him for going into debt. Every President has ended their term in some debt, Obama will probably end his in much more debt that others. No one's arguing that he's not put us in more debt.

[TheBigUnit]

just curious what about clinton?

[Magical]

The U.S. is more in debt than when he first took office, how is that progress?

...

You...

I really can not have a discussion with you, can I?

You completely ignored that he fixed the worst recession since the Great Depression...

That costs money.

Please read what I say before you respond. And consider it.

EDIT: I've noticed that only once has a -rep had a person's name on it. All the +reps have names. Funny, that.

[Sugaree]

just curious what about clinton?

Clinton more or less got us into this mess. In basic terms we can all understand, those surpluses he got us in was the result of borrowing money from other government agencies. Not cutting, but borrowing.

[Cicero]

...

You...

I really can not have a discussion with you, can I?

You completely ignored that he fixed the worst recession since the Great Depression...

That costs money.

Please read what I say before you respond. And consider it.

EDIT: I've noticed that only once has a -rep had a person's name on it. All the +reps have names. Funny, that.

Its no excuse to make the debt even worse

And yep, thats usually how rep here works lol :P

[Magical]

Its no excuse to make the debt even worse

And yep, thats usually how rep here works lol :P

It's a FANTASTIC excuse to make the debt worse - that's how you solve the recession. Pump money into the economy via stimulus packages.

Hmmmhmm. I've noticed. Of course, the exception was you.

[Lost in the Echo]

Its no excuse to make the debt even worse

And yep, thats usually how rep here works lol :P

Yeah I agree, it isn't an excuse to make the debt and shit worse, damn I can't believe how much of a dumb ass Obama is :yes:

[Cicero]

It's a FANTASTIC excuse to make the debt worse - that's how you solve the recession. Pump money into the economy via stimulus packages.

Hmmmhmm. I've noticed. Of course, the exception was you.

the government shouldn't get involved at all, especially through the useless stimulus packages that did barely anything

[Sugaree]

It's a FANTASTIC excuse to make the debt worse - that's how you solve the recession. Pump money into the economy via stimulus packages.

Well, yeah, that's one way to do it. But to retain a truly free market system, we should have just left it alone. Some companies that were going bankrupt probably should have so they could straighten themselves out and start hiring again. The cause of this recession was too much government interference. The free market isn't free when stimulus packages are being injected into it.

Yeah I agree, it isn't an excuse to make the debt and shit worse, damn I can't believe how much of a dumb ass Obama is :yes:

You're trying too hard.

[Magical]

the government shouldn't get involved at all, especially through the useless stimulus packages that did barely anything

It is the government's JOB to do something...

Useless stimulus packages?

http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2012/02/love_it_hate_it_obamas_stimulu.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/business/economy/17leonhardt.html

http://www.brookings.edu/research/articles/2010/08/17-stimulus-success-burtless

Could you say that again?

Yeah I agree, it isn't an excuse to make the debt and shit worse, damn I can't believe how much of a dumb ass Obama is :yes:

My god. You are trying to piss me off, are you not? You have completely ignored EVERYTHING I have posted. Come on. Read what I said. Read the links.

[Lost in the Echo]

You're trying too hard.
Yep, I sure am :P ( sarcasm )
It is the government's JOB to do something...

Useless stimulus packages?

http://blog.nj.com/njv_editorial_page/2012/02/love_it_hate_it_obamas_stimulu.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/17/business/economy/17leonhardt.html

http://www.brookings.edu/research/articles/2010/08/17-stimulus-success-burtless

Could you say that again?



My god. You are trying to piss me off, are you not? You have completely ignored EVERYTHING I have posted. Come on. Read what I said. Read the links. Not trying to piss you off, just speaking my opinion :whoops::yes:

I can't stand Obama, I could talk shit about him all day.

[Magical]

Not trying to piss you off, just speaking my opinion :whoops::yes:

I can't stand Obama, I could talk shit about him all day.

Well, maybe you could read and take in what I post ;).

Well. If you have all this shit you could fling at him...maybe you could post some of it and I could...correct it :D. PROVIDED that actually read it.

[TheBigUnit]

Yeah I agree, it isn't an excuse to make the debt and shit worse, damn I can't believe how much of a dumb ass Obama is :yes:

Pumping money into the economy didn't fix the great depression or anything.......:/
I feel like u are just spitting ur opinion here and no facts

[Zebo]

Obama wins!!!