If you can change things about yourself, why can't the brain change sexuality?

[Cicero]

So everyone says your born gay and it cannot be changed. Why can so many things about a person be changed, yet not sexuality? I mean, most everything can change, if yu believe you have an anger problem, that can be changed, if your nose is to big or to small, that can be changed, if you have an addiction, that can be changed. But what makes sexuality different from addiction, emtoional level, or even mental and physical disorders disorders?

What I personally believe, is that the "gay gene" can be 'activated' due to certain things in the environment and how someone was raised. Kinda like that gene they found called the "warrior gene". They say that a lot of serial killers have that gene, yet some normal everyday people have that gene, they were answering the question of "If some everyday people can have the gene, what makes them not do the things that serial killers do who also have the gene?" and the answer was, the environment and a persona upbringing can either trigger or not trigger the gene. That's what I believe about the "gay gene", it depends on environment and someone upbringing. Your thoughts and opinions? An agree or disagree, if so or not so, why? Lastly, what makes the "gay gene" unreversable if most everything about our selves can be changed, even the so called "warrior gene"? The warrior gene is a gene that can trigger people to lose compassion and emotional, ther is a problem with the part of the brain that is associated with emotion and the "fight or flight" gland (or something like that :lol:).

I already know I'm gonna be asked stuff like
"do you really think I chose to be gay?" my answer is, no I do not, I believe there might've been a trigger from childhood or your environment, just like the "warrior gene". Because that is a gene, just like the "gay gene"
"why are your putting quotes around the gay gene?" my answer is, because I do not know the scientific term
"why are you asking questions to your self?" answer is, so that I do not have to answer tons of questions that are like this
"do you have something against lgbt?" my answer is, no not at all, I was just wondering what others believe and wanted to see of anyone agreed with me. I just fond it odd how you cannot change your sexuality, yet you can change most mental disorders or physical diseases and even addiction. In fact, I currently unsure of my sexuality, and I asked a question about it and was told 'you are born gay, you cannot get rid of it" and from that question I thought of this question (that's in this thread).

[FreeFall]

The first part, you're wrong.

You do not change an anger problem. You can never change an anger problem. You only change how you live with, act on it, and deal with it. You cannot switch from being angry to a clam and happy person, no, you merely learn how to keep the anger in check to function.
An addict never stops being an addict. It's still there, and it can always come back. Some relapse 40 even 60 years after being clean or sober. They just learn how to control it, how to live without it, it never goes from existing to suddenly being gone.
And your nose...the genes are still there. You can make it tiny as you want, but your spawn have the chance of having the nose you had before surgery. One does not suddenly give birth to children with blue hair because they've dyed their hair blue.
None of that ever changes.

The "gay gene" is almost like the addict. They can suppress it, learn how to live with it underneath them, but they differ vastly from the addict because it won't be benefiting them. Where an addict can live a better life being clean/sober, a suppressed homosexual is less likely to be happy and such. Some men and women leave marriages after 40 years, having been homosexual the whole time. They just got tired of living their lie.

So I disagree. I'm straight. I cannot love a woman romantically, emotionally or sexually. I cannot learn how to live as a lesbian because I'm not like a person with an anger issue, where that's something to keep in place for a better life, I'd be causing myself many kinds of distress and pain in being with the wrong sex and gender for me.
There are lesbians that grew up in a tight, religious, heterosexual family. Going by upbringing and environment, that gene should've remained dormant.

Frankly, I'm not sure about the gay gene. I think it's still a mark of "why are people gay". I can understand it, and there's probably some solid standing to it, I just do not accept it. I think that it's sort of like some cannot accept that people love someone of the same sex, and having a "scientific explanation" makes it sound like there can be a cure, or at least some sort of cushion to fall on in understanding why they're homosexual.

[Abyssal Echo]

I agree with FreeFall. you can have plastic surgery or a sex change operation to change your physical appearance. but you can't change you

[nice]

I think you can change from being gay if you try hard enough and really want to.

Don't try debating crap with me about scientific stuff because I'm not a normal debator I don't need facts and stuff like that for someone to prove their point.

[Mortal Coil]

The brain can change sexuality. Let's get this straight. I am not saying, nor do I wish to communicate that sexuality is a "choice." It isn't. But things like trauma can make the brain change your sexuality. Within certain limits, sexuality isn't, in my opinion, influenced by upbringing. The things that some conservatives have said in the past about "how not to raise a gay child" are bullshit. Yeah, just keep teaching your young boy to hate women! Then he'll definitely only want to have sex with them. Like I said though, trauma can influence sexuality (it did in my case) so an abusive upbringing, particularly a sexually abusive one, may influence sexual orientation.

Sorry if I was confusing.

[Gaybaby94]

Why would I want to change who I'm proud of?!

[Human]

You can never change your anger problem... you never truly fix your big nose either, you artificially and unnaturally change it. You put a mask on the problem and ignore it.

[Cicero]

The first part, you're wrong.

You do not change an anger problem. You can never change an anger problem. You only change how you live with, act on it, and deal with it. You cannot switch from being angry to a clam and happy person, no, you merely learn how to keep the anger in check to function.
An addict never stops being an addict. It's still there, and it can always come back. Some relapse 40 even 60 years after being clean or sober. They just learn how to control it, how to live without it, it never goes from existing to suddenly being gone.
And your nose...the genes are still there. You can make it tiny as you want, but your spawn have the chance of having the nose you had before surgery. One does not suddenly give birth to children with blue hair because they've dyed their hair blue.
None of that ever changes.

The "gay gene" is almost like the addict. They can suppress it, learn how to live with it underneath them, but they differ vastly from the addict because it won't be benefiting them. Where an addict can live a better life being clean/sober, a suppressed homosexual is less likely to be happy and such. Some men and women leave marriages after 40 years, having been homosexual the whole time. They just got tired of living their lie.

So I disagree. I'm straight. I cannot love a woman romantically, emotionally or sexually. I cannot learn how to live as a lesbian because I'm not like a person with an anger issue, where that's something to keep in place for a better life, I'd be causing myself many kinds of distress and pain in being with the wrong sex and gender for me.
There are lesbians that grew up in a tight, religious, heterosexual family. Going by upbringing and environment, that gene should've remained dormant.

Frankly, I'm not sure about the gay gene. I think it's still a mark of "why are people gay". I can understand it, and there's probably some solid standing to it, I just do not accept it. I think that it's sort of like some cannot accept that people love someone of the same sex, and having a "scientific explanation" makes it sound like there can be a cure, or at least some sort of cushion to fall on in understanding why they're homosexual.

The brain can change sexuality. Let's get this straight. I am not saying, nor do I wish to communicate that sexuality is a "choice." It isn't. But things like trauma can make the brain change your sexuality. Within certain limits, sexuality isn't, in my opinion, influenced by upbringing. The things that some conservatives have said in the past about "how not to raise a gay child" are bullshit. Yeah, just keep teaching your young boy to hate women! Then he'll definitely only want to have sex with them. Like I said though, trauma can influence sexuality (it did in my case) so an abusive upbringing, particularly a sexually abusive one, may influence sexual orientation.

Sorry if I was confusing.

You can never change your anger problem... you never truly fix your big nose either, you artificially and unnaturally change it. You put a mask on the problem and ignore it.

I agree with you Mortal Coil, I do not believe its fully dependent on upbringing. But I also believe that some things can trigger it, like the warrior gene. People who were raised in an environment that didn't trigger it, they didn't have the effects of that gene.

Not at all am I saying that you shouldn't be proud to be gay, if anything you should be proud of yourself.

But so many people have overcame blindness, in a sense. This guy who is blind uses echo location to see. The scientists in that show, have said countless times how our brains are like plastic, that guy, over time, was able to mold his brain into using echo location. So if something that complex can be done, why couldn't sexuality?

Lastly, anger issues CAN BE FIXED over time. When I was younger, I had MAJOR anger management issues. I got suspended constantly. But with working with a psychologist and therapist, I was eventually able to be peaceful. So YES, ANGER ISSUES CAN BE FIXED AND EVENTUALLY CURED. And there are many out there who are like me. It just takes tons of hard work. There are also, TONS of alcoholilcs who overcame there alcohol addiction. Not only that, but some can even drink alcohol without going back to there old ways. They learn to do it in moderation.

So many people say that they are open minded, yet when I propose this 'new' idea of think, and how our brains are like plastic that can be molded over time. This idea gets shot down saying stuff like "Its impossible, it will never work". If people were truly open minded they would look at this idea and think "hmm, maybe it might work, but maybe it wont". I'm NOT SAYING im open minded. I always try to stay neutral. Yes, I give out my opinion on many different topics, but i also see both sides of an issue. Like abortion, I see why people are pro choice and pro life.

[Gigablue]

I don't really think you can. All the current evidence seems to suggest that homosexuality is a product of genetics and prenatal environment. Twin studies have shown that is one identical twin is gay, the other is likely to also be gay, which suggests a strong genetic factor. It has able been shown that having more older brothers significant increase the likelihood of a man being gay, whether he is raised with them or not. It is known that having a boy changes the hormone levels in the womb for all subsequent pregnancies. Therefore prenatal harmony levels are also suspected to change the odds.

There isn't any evidence that homosexuality can be changed, and no one really has a plausible way in which it can be changed. If someone has evidence that sexuality can be changed, I would consider it, but at the moment, there isn't any. There is also the separate question as to whether people should try to change sexuality, but that is even more complicated.

[rockNroll]

Who knows, maybe you can change the gene or whatever. But why would you? Being gay isn't like being a serial killer, there's nothing wrong with it.

[Stryker125]

eh, not sure I agree with that. I don't think you can change being gay, though you can cover it up or work around it.

I don't think people are born gay, nor do I think it's a choice. I see it as a preference, if that makes any sense. I like pizza. I wasn't born with a genetic predisposition to liking pizza, and I didn't decide to like pizza. I just do. It's delicious.

I view sexuality the same way. No one ever decides to be gay, the same way no one decides they want to be straight. They just...are. No matter how many people tell me that liking pizza is wrong, and no matter how much I refuse to eat pizza, I will still love pizza. (although I guess through some kind of shock therapy, you could force me to associate pizza with bad experiences, and therefore cause me to stop enjoying pizza, but that's a whole 'nother topic) It's a part of who I am. It doesn't define me, but it is a part of me. Kind of like how a few waves and violent waters are not the entire ocean, just a part of it.

you don't decide you're gay, you discover you're gay. no, you can't change it, no matter how convenient that might be.


I dunno...I'm weird.

[Cicero]

eh, not sure I agree with that. I don't think you can change being gay, though you can cover it up or work around it.

I don't think people are born gay, nor do I think it's a choice. I see it as a preference, if that makes any sense. I like pizza. I wasn't born with a genetic predisposition to liking pizza, and I didn't decide to like pizza. I just do. It's delicious.

I view sexuality the same way. No one ever decides to be gay, the same way no one decides they want to be straight. They just...are. No matter how many people tell me that liking pizza is wrong, and no matter how much I refuse to eat pizza, I will still love pizza. (although I guess through some kind of shock therapy, you could force me to associate pizza with bad experiences, and therefore cause me to stop enjoying pizza, but that's a whole 'nother topic) It's a part of who I am. It doesn't define me, but it is a part of me. Kind of like how a few waves and violent waters are not the entire ocean, just a part of it.

you don't decide you're gay, you discover you're gay. no, you can't change it, no matter how convenient that might be.


I dunno...I'm weird.

i said that it could be both a genetic trigger and the environment. I'm not saying that they choose to be gay as if it were "hey i think ill be gay" i dont think that.

[Stryker125]

i said that it could be both a genetic trigger and the environment. I'm not saying that they choose to be gay as if it were "hey i think ill be gay" i dont think that.

I know...I was saying that I don't think it's genetic...I don't really think it's an environment thing either. Though a person's environment could probably be a pretty big factor in whether not a person represses their sexuality, but I don't think environment matters when it comes to a person just being gay.

sorry if it sounded like I was implying that you said that...wasn't my intention.

[FreeFall]

Did you just passively aggressive call me close minded?

You think your anger issue cured? Good for you! But it's not. I'm not downgrading your accomplishment, only proving how hard working you are to keep yourself in a good place at life. You can be triggered at anytime, all you've done is unplug your angry switch. It's in a dormant state, but it's there, and it's always going to be if it's as severe as you've said. Just watch yourself, the people that relapse are the ones commonly under the assumption that it's forever gone and nothing to ever think about again, do not be triggered. And you've only reiterated my point with the alcohol, moderation and control but no relapse. They know it's still there, hence moderation and intense work on it.

I completely forgot a point, I completely agree situations can make someone homosexual. Those people are strong though, no matter what. They give love and accept it, despite seeing and living through how ugly and evil people can be, they could easily throw everyone out of the window and turn their backs on humanity, but walk away able to give their hearts to someone. That's so much strength right there.

I understand the concept of the homosexual gene, like I said there's probably some solid standing on it, but just like people can refuse evolutionism in favor of creationism, I reject the gene in standing by that people love who they love and it can just happen. If someone points out to me a homosexual couple I think oh they're in love, not oh look at the fine example of the homosexual gene being active.

[TigerBoy]

So everyone says your born gay and it cannot be changed

The basis for that is that for practical purposes we don't understand the mechanism well enough to change it (even presupposing we'd want to), and it has resisted any and all attempts to do so.


Anything claiming to make such changes is unscientific BULLSHIT that has been condemned by the professional associations of psychology in several countries including the UK and the US because it DOESN'T WORK and actually causes harm. They feel so strongly about it that they have struck off (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/05/28/christian-gay-cure-therapist-loses-appeal/) therapists who have performed it. California has just legislated to outlaw it even.

The premise for this 'therapy' was some bad science that wasn't ever accepted by the American Psychological Association anyway and the author himself (Dr Robert Spitzer) has since withdrawn (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/04/11/psychiatrist-requests-retraction-of-controversial-gay-cure-study/)on that basis, and apologised (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/04/26/robert-spitzer-apologises-to-the-gay-community-for-ex-gay-study/)to the LGBT community for the fallout.

This 'therapy' is favoured by extremist Christians, who will go to extreme lengths in this matter including chemical castration (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/09/05/sydney-christian-doctor-banned-for-prescribing-chemical-castration-gay-cure-to-teen/): it only even survives as a question due to the support of bigoted idiots (and of course it is so-called 'Christian' bigots who are now appealing (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/10/05/california-second-lawsuit-filed-against-gay-cure-ban/)the California law).

Even those at the heart of movements that have promoted 'gay cure' stand as examples of its failure:

In 1979, two of Exodus lnternationals co-founders, Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper, quit the group and held a life commitment ceremony together
On June 27, 2007 Bussee, along with fellow former Exodus leaders Jeremy Marks and Darlene Bogle each came out as gay or lesbian and issued a public apology for their roles in Exodus.
In 2012 ANOTHER leader stated that homosexuality cannot be cured. (http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2012/07/07/leader-of-reparative-therapy-group-exodus-says-gays-cant-be-cured/)
Anthony Venn-Brown, a former Australian evangelist in the "Assemblies of God" and in Australia’s first ex-gay program. In 2007 he co-ordinated the release of a statement from live Australian ex-gay leaders who publicly apologized for their past actions
Peterson Toscano, an actor who was involved in the ex-gay movement for 17 years now runs a support group "Beyond ex-gay".