Is the United States a Theocracy?

[Underground_Network]

Now, don't get me started, I know you could never truly classify the U.S. as a theocracy, but there was statement left on the blackboard from the previous class when I walked into my Modern World History class today. The statement stated: The United States claims to be "One Nation Under God", thus the United States is a theocracy. Now that may seem insane, but Bush is somewhat religiously biased and uses religion to make some of his decisions. What I really want to know is, do you think its absurd to view the U.S. as a theocracy, or do you think, that its possible to come up with an argument that the U.S. could be viewed as a theocracy? I mean if you look at some of Bush's (and even some past president's) decisions, you could see some religious bias/religious motive. And I mean, the United States is One Nation Under GOD.

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

I dont find it absurd at all. I believe that in some ways, the US is in fact a theocracy.

[Sage]

Not asburd in the slightest. Since when has the United States been a primarily-atheist nation? Yeah, that's what I thought.

[Prince Jellyfish]

The laws of the United States do not reflect that. In fact, the seperation of church and state is probably the best way of debasing your claim.:yeah:

[Hauptmann Kauffman]

Just because there is seperation of church and state, doesnt mean that it is followed and respected to a tee.

[Prince Jellyfish]

Yeah, but it means that the United States isn't ruled by a religious figure. Just because the people in a country are free to follow a religion doesn't mean that have some sort of politically active religious majority makes it a theocracy. We don't have a state religion; it's as simple as that. Until the United States declares itself a theocracy it isn't one. People have the right to decide on their own what they want. Besides, in a theocracy the leader isn't elected and there isn't any sort of legislative body around to make decisions. Vatican city? Theocracy. Tibet? Theocracy (once China leaves them the hell alone). United States? Democracy (indirect).

[Maverick]

Well of course our politicians have religious views. That is their first amendment right to practice and that isn't a problem.

If a politician has a certain view and it happens to be based on a religious value, that's doesn't mean it's a bad thing as long as it's the will of the people. If a politician does something and uses religion as a reason and the people disagree, they simply vote him or her out of office at next election. That's the beauty of a democracy. Not to mention most candidates express their stances and beliefs beforehand so the people know what to expect when voting for someone.

The United States is not a typical theocracy. Voting, bills, elections, will of people, etc are what drive this country not religion alone. When making laws the Bible isn't used as an absolute reference. If this country was a theocracy we wouldn't have gay marriage allowed in some states, abortions, divorces, and highly censored television to name a few. None of that is here.

In fact the United States is probably one of the best countries to be free to practice whatever religion you want. Of course our separation of church and state isn't perfect but it is much better than other countries and I think we are pretty free to enjoy a lot of rights that would be considered banned in real theocracies.

Granted there are a few religious themes in our pledge of allegiances and currencies but by removing it what difference does it make? It's more there for symbolic and historical reasons rather than conversion. Replacing the entire currency would be a waste and it would make no difference on your everyday life or freedom.

A society lead with atheist principles would be a bias itself and infringe the rights that the religious people have. Allowing all opinions are what make a true democracy. It's not your right to say what belief system should the USA should be based on because we're all equal and you being an atheist isn't more right than a fundamentalist Christian.

You're forgetting that freedom of religion does not mean restriction of expression of religious beliefs because it goes right against what the principle is about. If you're religious it is your right to let it influence your decisions as much as it is your right to not let it influence your decisions - both are okay as long as they do not infringe the rights of others.

[Prince Jellyfish]

Well of course our politicians have religious views. That is their first amendment right to practice and that isn't a problem.

If a politician has a certain view and it happens to be based on a religious value, that's doesn't mean it's a bad thing as long as it's the will of the people. If a politician does something and uses religion as a reason and the people disagree, they simply vote him or her out of office at next election. That's the beauty of a democracy. Not to mention most candidates express their stances and beliefs beforehand so the people know what to expect when voting for someone.

The United States is not a typical theocracy. Voting, bills, elections, will of people, etc are what drive this country not religion alone. When making laws the Bible isn't used as an absolute reference. If this country was a theocracy we wouldn't have gay marriage allowed in some states, abortions, divorces, and highly censored television to name a few. None of that is here.

In fact the United States is probably one of the best countries to be free to practice whatever religion you want. Of course our separation of church and state isn't perfect but it is much better than other countries and I think we are pretty free to enjoy a lot of rights that would be considered banned in real theocracies.

Granted there are a few religious themes in our pledge of allegiances and currencies but by removing it what difference does it make? It's more there for symbolic and historical reasons rather than conversion. Replacing the entire currency would be a waste and it would make no difference on your everyday life or freedom.

A society lead with atheist principles would be a bias itself and infringe the rights that the religious people have. Allowing all opinions are what make a true democracy. It's not your right to say what belief system should the USA should be based on because we're all equal and you being an atheist isn't more right than a fundamentalist Christian.

You're forgetting that freedom of religion does not mean restriction of expression of religious beliefs because it goes right against what the principle is about. If you're religious it is your right to let it influence your decisions as much as it is your right to not let it influence your decisions - both are okay as long as they do not infringe the rights of others.

:yeah:
You go, girl! lol

[Octo22]

Also when applying for citizenship, you no longer have to say that last line if you don't want to.

[Underground_Network]

Anthony's not a girl, but Prince Jellyfish, you left out a major theocracy, actually the most well known/biggest theocracy: Iran. But anyway, the United States obviously isn't an actual theocracy, but look at Bush, then look at New Orleans. We, like almost every other country/continent (with the exception of Penguinland, eh hem, Antarctica), are a nation based on prejudice. Bush hates blacks, jews, muslims, etc. He voices his opinion, all though he doesn't one hundred percent make it known. He's not going to announce it to the world, but covertly he's sending out the message that he's a biased son of a bitch. Although we all are somewhat biased/prejudiced/prejudgemental, still, if we have a leader who basically bases 75% of his policies on religion, couldn't you see the U.S. as a theocracy?

[Octo22]

Bush hates blacks, jews, muslims, etc.

hahahahahahahahaha


I completely agree that Bush hates JEWS. Considering the U.S's number one partner is Israel, you know...that place full of jews....

And because of said partnership Bush got THE JEWISH vote.

But obviously it's all a ploy to kill them all, I mean why befriend their nation and give them BIG GUNS, if we just wanna kill em ;D

[Underground_Network]

hahahahahahahahaha


I completely agree that Bush hates JEWS. Considering the U.S's number one partner is Israel, you know...that place full of jews....

And because of said partnership Bush got THE JEWISH vote.

But obviously it's all a ploy to kill them all, I mean why befriend their nation and give them BIG GUNS, if we just wanna kill em ;D

Are you being sarcastic? :?

I'm assuming that you're being sarcastic, and yes Bush is nice to Israel, but he's also nice to Iraq now that he's trying to rebuild it, but in his mind he's just conquering the world one country at a time, starting off with what he sees as the weakest. He does not like jews, he doesn't want to kill them all, but he doesn't hide the fact that he only likes RICH WHITE CHRISTIANS. [Don't forget that part of being president is HIDING personal bias]

[Maverick]

Yes, he was being sarcastic, and you're just rambling out a bunch of bullshit now. It's not even worth debating anymore because you're just posting bs with no facts. Seriously, you'd do great in the tabloid industry.

[Underground_Network]

Name one person in the world who does not prejudge, show bias, judge people based on the knowledge of someone else they knew that was the same race/color as them. YOU CAN'T. The president will always be religiously and racially biased somewhat. If it was a bunch of rich caucasians down in New Orleans, he would've reacted faster. Now that is not bullshit.

[Maverick]

There isn't any need to take any of this personally. I'm just trying to get a better debate going. That's all.

[Octo22]

Name one person in the world who does not prejudge, show bias, judge people based on the knowledge of someone else they knew that was the same race/color as them. YOU CAN'T.

soo....you just went from calling him a hate mongerer to

OMG GUYS HE'S A NORMAL PERSON.

[Camazotz]

The US is kind of a theocracy if you look at it in that point. Our original motto, "E Plaribus Unum",or "One of many" is still used today on our money. We changed it, but so people of other beliefs can feel better, they still use the original motto.

[Underground_Network]

I have come to the conclusion that the United States is not a theocracy, but is somewhat religiuosly based. For it to be considered a theocracy it would have to be completely based on religion, and Bush would probably have to pretend to be a relative of God, or to have talked to God before (which he probably told really ignorant people to get his vote count up in the two previous elections anyway). Yeah.. the U.S. may not be a theocracy, but it sure as hell has some religious base and bias.

[Hyper]

It really just seems to me that most hardcore atheists.. Hate religion and look at oppurtunities to bash it..

So, excuse me as I am not very familiar with the topic as reading bshit really makes me head hurt I was able to read this forum..

But tell me in what way is a hardcore religious political leader more biased than a hardcore atheist political leader?

[Prince Jellyfish]

It really just seems to me that most hardcore atheists.. Hate religion and look at oppurtunities to bash it..

So, excuse me as I am not very familiar with the topic as reading bshit really makes me head hurt I was able to read this forum..

But tell me in what way is a hardcore religious political leader more biased than a hardcore atheist political leader?

Do you hear the people sing?
Singing a song of angry men?
It is the music of a people
Who will not be slaves again!
When the beating of your heart
Echoes the beating of the drums
There is a life about to start
When tomorrow comes!
:yeah: