e-safety and banned users

[TigerBoy]

OK so we had a discussion about e-safety in IT today which got me thinking. Where users are banned because they are doing things that could indicate some malicious intent towards members, should members be warned?

So I was talking to a kid via pm about some fairly personal stuff, and it seemed to help. Now with hindsight I'm thinking that something he said happened seemed really 'convenient' somehow and it made me a bit suspicious, but the next thing is he's banned, and being paranoid about this sort of stuff I start speculating.

I can see a scenario where the mods may have more information that could suggest this guy was some kind of creeper in disguise, or that in fact his ban was simply because he was rude to a mod or ignoring warning for minor infractions or something.

I can see some people would find it hard to know what to do if you get an IM with "Oh man the mods hate me, I got banned. Will you still be my friend?"

In a scenario where a person was banned and there are suspicions (eg for asking for naked pics in their first email) it might be helpful to get a warning eg a user ban log - with "banned for rule infractions" or "banned for e-safety concerns" (no details needed, no accusations made).

Ultimately I think everyone needs to be responsible for themselves and I also wouldn't be in favour of something that caused a lot more work for anyone. Just interested in what people think.

[Sonic Boom]

Banned users can't do much, as most of their features (VM,PM etc.) Are disabled. So there is nothing to be worried about I should hope!

[TigerBoy]

I can see some people would find it hard to know what to do if you get an IM

People post IM details on their profile or share them with friends via PM.

[Darkness.]

Banned users can't do much, as most of their features (VM,PM etc.) Are disabled. So there is nothing to be worried about I should hope!

Banned members cannot use any of the site features. All they can do is view the main index.

People post IM details on their profile or share them with friends via PM.

If a user doesn't want other members (banned or not) contacting them through IM, then they shouldn't be giving IM details away.

[ImCoolBeans]

If a user doesn't want other members (banned or not) contacting them through IM, then they shouldn't be giving IM details away.

This is exactly right. When you give out your own personal IM or any other form of contact information you are opening up a door to let people who you don't exactly know come in. Now I'm not saying that everybody has inappropriate or malicious intent; but a handful of people obviously do. You have to use your own discretion when providing contact details. Also, I can confidently say that when a user claims that he or she was only banned because "the mods hate him" that the user either has no conception of the rules or is just not owning up to what they did - whether it was ignoring of warnings/infractions or something more serious. Always be wary of that; but also be wary of anybody, VT user or not, contacting you via the internet. Not everybody is who they say they are.

[TigerBoy]

If a user doesn't want other members (banned or not) contacting them through IM, then they shouldn't be giving IM details away.

Or they could just stay off the Internet altogether, right?

Realistically, people DO give out these details and at the time do so in good faith : it is a considered risk, just like getting out of bed in the morning (although there are statistics to show you aren't safe even there). It isn't helpful to argue 'could have, should have' when the facts are that these things happen.

So try to assume these are real people using VT and not theoretical users who never did anything risky in their lives ever : isn't there an opportunity to help those users be better informed in order to protect themselves (especially if they've been naive enough to give out details that are permitted by VT?

[Giles]

Or they could just stay off the Internet altogether, right?

Realistically, people DO give out these details and at the time do so in good faith : it is a considered risk, just like getting out of bed in the morning (although there are statistics to show you aren't safe even there). It isn't helpful to argue 'could have, should have' when the facts are that these things happen.

So try to assume these are real people using VT and not theoretical users who never did anything risky in their lives ever : isn't there an opportunity to help those users be better informed in order to protect themselves (especially if they've been naive enough to give out details that are permitted by VT?

I don't have a particularly strong opinion with your actual suggestion, but I think that you're missing the point Mike made. You say that people do give out their details in good faith, and that's true, but it's also true that people will do it regardless of the warnings put in their way. I've got little doubt that you could splash paedophile over peoples profiles and they'd still get friend requests and people trying to add them. There will always be those people that are just too naive.

[Mortal Coil]

As much as I agree with the points brought up by Mikey and Ben, I do agree with Olly. Giving away details is something that happens, and in the interest of arming users with the knowledge to protect themselves, something like this would be very helpful. Yes, people are naive and give away IM details, but is that a reason to stand idly by while someone who got banned for being a perv could be IMing a member things that make him or her uncomfortable?

[TheMatrix]

When users are banned, they are almost invariably banned because they broke the rules somehow. The ban reason is confidential information -- no staff member should ever give them out -- and is irrelevant anyways.

When you join any online community, you are putting yourself at risk for people with malicious intent to try to harm you. Do not assume that any place is safe from that, because it isn't. Not even VirtualTeen is 100% safe, although we do try to keep it s safe as possible.

Ultimately, you must use your own discretion. Think about what you make available on the internet. Some people want to be open and easily-found. They fill in every single field on their profile and maybe even include pictures of themselves. Others want to stay more low-profile. These people fill in only several fields on their profile and might not post any pictures of themselves.
It doesn't matter which of these two types of people you are, just make sure you know what you're doing. If there's anyone trying to "add" or "friend" you somewhere who looks suspicious, then consider avoiding them. On here, you would probably notify a staff member who will then look into them.

The internet is not much different then a busy street in a metropolitan area: be careful where you step and what you do.

[TigerBoy]

When users are banned, they are almost invariably banned because they broke the rules somehow. The ban reason is confidential information -- no staff member should ever give them out -- and is irrelevant anyways.
.

So the reason for the question is to reflect on that concept : not to question whether a given ban was right or wrong, but whether the general circumstances of a ban might be worth communicating to the community as a 'heads up'.

I broadly acknowledged everything else you said in my earlier post - no arguments at all from me there. The FAQ is pretty clear about things and is considerably better than you get on most forums. Like Giles said - some people won't be told whatever you do.

From the Mod / Admin side of the board I guess you guys know whether or not you get a gut feel for dodgy users when you are banning and how big a problem this is, so I guess now several of you have responded from my point of view that's 'mission accomplished'.

[StoppingTime]

Honestly, the whole thing is quite simple. If a member is banned, there's a reason behind it, and you should PM any staff member, and ask if they think it's still safe for you to talk to them. We won't divulge any specific information, but enough to keep you safe.

As others have said, if you have a feeling something isn't right, PM any staff member, and, it's all done at your own risk. If you put contact information up, expect people to see it.

[Fiction]

I don't see any difference to this and the procedure after Aaron was banned?

An announcement was made to warn other users, why can't other bannings that cause concern not have this? In my eyes, anything to protect VT users from people who are potentially not real because take it from me, it's something that can have a HUGE impact on people's lives and even kill them.

Surly every measure SHOULD be taken in order too protect the innocent, and often vulnerable users of VT against these people?

It might be "rules" too not disclose ban information, but this is barely doing this, and if you ask me the benefits outweigh the negatives.

[StoppingTime]

Kathy, I agree. But, is it necessary to post an announcement after every member is banned? I think that was only done because of his position on the site.
Of course, if a member is worried or concerned at all for their safety, they should ask a moderator. But, if it was always posted, fights could possibly break out, and things of that nature.

[nice]

I'm kinda new so what happened with this Aaron person?

[Fiction]

I don't mean an announcement be made for every person, because that would be ridiculous :p But some form of notification perhaps on their own profile. Like how mods can see user notes is there perhaps a way to do something similar which is viewable too users.

And there may be arguements but it's pretty simple to say they where banned for a reason and people aren't banned without a good reason. Fights can break out with or without it, and surly the protection of users is more important. In my opinion anyway.

[Maverick]

If someone is banned, its very smart to assume they were banned for a good reason and we do not welcome them on the site. By being banned the administration feels that it would be against the member's interest to be in contact with this person. Anyone that is banned from here you should not contact off site for any reason.

Now there have been instances where "trusted and respected" members have been banned and the administration felt it was necessary to make a statement about it due to the fact a large numbers of users were in contact with this person. Despite warnings, still a number of users remained in contact with the person even after our statements. We can provide information on a case by case basis and we do have a rank that shows a member is banned... so nobody is left in the dark. VT does its part by removing the user from the site and updating the rank to let the community know they were banned. After that, its out of our hands and we are not the internet police. We can't tell you not to or enforce you not to talk to a banned user.

If a member is really concerned they can talk to administrator about it and perhaps they can get some information. Any administrator will gladly inform any user if the situation is very serious. But people are banned from this site every day and if you really need to be informed that thoroughly on every banning then you really need to reconsider your selectivity when adding members to your IM.

The internet is a dangerous place. Please be safe and don't add every person that talks to you.