The Bent press

[Zenos]

Don't know if anyone here has ever heard of it let alone done it before.But it's an interesting Old Time lift.

the late Arthur Saxon did around 371 pounds about 100 years ago iin this lift which is still a standing record.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbOMVlj2YF8

[Nellerin]

Don't know if anyone here has ever heard of it let alone done it before.But it's an interesting Old Time lift.

the late Arthur Saxon did around 371 pounds about 100 years ago iin this lift which is still a standing record.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbOMVlj2YF8

DO NOT DO THAT LIFT!!! You will easily end up hurt. The muscles being hit are so minimal that you can hit them better,easier and safer with more normal lifts.

There is a reason you never see someone doing that in a gym lol.

[NotYourSombrero]

That seems like the MOST suicidal exercise I have ever seen.

[Zenos]

DO NOT DO THAT LIFT!!! You will easily end up hurt. The muscles being hit are so minimal that you can hit them better,easier and safer with more normal lifts.

There is a reason you never see someone doing that in a gym lol.


I've been doing that lift since i was 14,and like any other lift it is totally safe if you use good forum.

And I'd like to point out the the muscles used get hit hard.

It's just a very highly technical lift,that you should work on form first.

the reason you don't see it in gyms is because it and the way the old time astrong men like Eugen Sandow,George Hackenschmidt,Arthur Saxon etc etc general fell out of favor for bodybuilding type training which does little for strength.



Thicken the Waist for Power

Daniel “Dano” Rodgers

October 20, 2003 03:27 PM

The statue of David, Hercules, and numerous other works of art out of antiquity display powerful physiques with thick spinal erectors, shoulder girdles, and corded forearms, and most of all thick, powerful waists. Bulging biceps, sagging pecs, and waspish waists are nowhere in sight. In fact, the musculature of these men is practically identical to the strongmen of old. Saxon, Sandow, Hackenschmidt, Aston, Cyr, Jowett, Apollon, and many more display truly strong physiques built by heavy lifting. Put a photo of any old-time strongman next to today's fitness models or even many athletes (!) and you'll see shocking differences. Enough lamenting the good ol' days. Its time to change things around. Here's the how you can build a powerful trunk:

One-Handed Lifting: There's one thing the aforementioned strongmen had in common: heavy lifting with one hand. Bent presses, side presses, windmills, snatches, clean & jerks, one- and two-hand anyhows, deadlifts, farmer walks; all lifts that were staples of these powerful men's training. If you already practice these movements with regularity, pat yourself on the back. You're ahead of the game. If not, add them in and go heavy. You won't build the thick obliques, abdominals, erectors, and other muscles of the trunk if you lift baby weights.

Heavy Waist Work: From the literature, most strongmen weren't devotees of endless amounts of direct "ab" work. The above lifts built thick trunks because that's what heavy lifting demands. This isn't to disparage the use of direct work for the trunk muscles. Weighted sit-ups, hanging leg raises, Saxon side bends, Roman chair sit-ups, "evil wheels" (to quote Mr. Tsatsouline), and similar movements should be added in at least twice a week. Again, go heavy. Forget endless reps. Add some weight and stay within the 3-5 rep range.

Plain, Heavy Lifting: You can't perform heavy deadlifts, squats, overhead presses, Olympic lifts, stone lifting, or any other heavy lifts without training the trunk. The obliques, rectus abdominis, transversus abdominis, and other muscles of the trunk must stabilize you. Try to perform a heavy squat without flexing and bracing your waist. You'll fold like a limp noodle.

You don't have to institute a diet of chips and beer to obtain a thick, powerful trunk. A thick waist isn't a corpulent one, but don't pursue endless hours of mere "ab" work with rep after rep of useless crunches with the intention of "trimming" and "toning". Forget the senseless belief that a waif-like waist is attractive because it isn't. A muscular waist IS attractive and functional. Your lifts will become easier and you'll display new levels of strength. I promise. If you don't believe me, take a look at the enormous poundages lifted by the strongmen of old.

[Zenos]

That seems like the MOST suicidal exercise I have ever seen.



It's not an exercise it's a lift.they are 2 diffrent things.

[NotYourSombrero]

It's not an exercise it's a lift.they are 2 diffrent things.

The definition of exercise is as follows: An activity that requires physical or mental exertion, especially when performed to develop or maintain fitness.
I am pretty sure that lifts fall into this category. Oh, and by the way your grammar is atrocious.

[West Coast Sheriff]

Wow! That's impressive. :D

[Nellerin]

I've been doing that lift since i was 14,and like any other lift it is totally safe if you use good forum.

And I'd like to point out the the muscles used get hit hard.

It's just a very highly technical lift,that you should work on form first.

the reason you don't see it in gyms is because it and the way the old time astrong men like Eugen Sandow,George Hackenschmidt,Arthur Saxon etc etc general fell out of favor for bodybuilding type training which does little for strength.



Thicken the Waist for Power

Daniel “Dano” Rodgers

October 20, 2003 03:27 PM

The statue of David, Hercules, and numerous other works of art out of antiquity display powerful physiques with thick spinal erectors, shoulder girdles, and corded forearms, and most of all thick, powerful waists. Bulging biceps, sagging pecs, and waspish waists are nowhere in sight. In fact, the musculature of these men is practically identical to the strongmen of old. Saxon, Sandow, Hackenschmidt, Aston, Cyr, Jowett, Apollon, and many more display truly strong physiques built by heavy lifting. Put a photo of any old-time strongman next to today's fitness models or even many athletes (!) and you'll see shocking differences. Enough lamenting the good ol' days. Its time to change things around. Here's the how you can build a powerful trunk:

One-Handed Lifting: There's one thing the aforementioned strongmen had in common: heavy lifting with one hand. Bent presses, side presses, windmills, snatches, clean & jerks, one- and two-hand anyhows, deadlifts, farmer walks; all lifts that were staples of these powerful men's training. If you already practice these movements with regularity, pat yourself on the back. You're ahead of the game. If not, add them in and go heavy. You won't build the thick obliques, abdominals, erectors, and other muscles of the trunk if you lift baby weights.

Heavy Waist Work: From the literature, most strongmen weren't devotees of endless amounts of direct "ab" work. The above lifts built thick trunks because that's what heavy lifting demands. This isn't to disparage the use of direct work for the trunk muscles. Weighted sit-ups, hanging leg raises, Saxon side bends, Roman chair sit-ups, "evil wheels" (to quote Mr. Tsatsouline), and similar movements should be added in at least twice a week. Again, go heavy. Forget endless reps. Add some weight and stay within the 3-5 rep range.

Plain, Heavy Lifting: You can't perform heavy deadlifts, squats, overhead presses, Olympic lifts, stone lifting, or any other heavy lifts without training the trunk. The obliques, rectus abdominis, transversus abdominis, and other muscles of the trunk must stabilize you. Try to perform a heavy squat without flexing and bracing your waist. You'll fold like a limp noodle.

You don't have to institute a diet of chips and beer to obtain a thick, powerful trunk. A thick waist isn't a corpulent one, but don't pursue endless hours of mere "ab" work with rep after rep of useless crunches with the intention of "trimming" and "toning". Forget the senseless belief that a waif-like waist is attractive because it isn't. A muscular waist IS attractive and functional. Your lifts will become easier and you'll display new levels of strength. I promise. If you don't believe me, take a look at the enormous poundages lifted by the strongmen of old.

Bent presses are not ever necessary and since I have been around Strongman/Strongwoman/Powerlifting my entire life and not once seen a competitor train using that there is good reason for it. Kettlebells are normally used when performing a bent press but even then the chance of messing up form and destroying yourself is too high.

You train your core fine with other exercises.

[Zenos]

Bent presses are not ever necessary and since I have been around Strongman/Strongwoman/Powerlifting my entire life and not once seen a competitor train using that there is good reason for it. Kettlebells are normally used when performing a bent press but even then the chance of messing up form and destroying yourself is too high.

You train your core fine with other exercises.

Big deal if todays Strongman/Strongwoman/Powerlifting don't use it.I train Old Time Strong Man style which means using lifts that are rarely seen these days.

The main two ways the old time strong men did it was with dumbbells and barbells.

I'm taking it you have never used it so what you are saying is "PERSONAL OPINION".

The problem I have found is the people bashing a lift do so because it's diffrent and not many people use it.

And you are always going on about how no one uses it now...wrong there are those of us who are keeping the old stryle of training going!

[Zenos]

The definition of exercise is as follows: An activity that requires physical or mental exertion, especially when performed to develop or maintain fitness.
I am pretty sure that lifts fall into this category. Oh, and by the way your grammar is atrocious.



A lift usually uses low reps even single reps and heavy weight and is for building strength,where as an exercise uses lighter weight high reps and is for development of the muscles.

thats what I meant by theres a diffrence

[Nellerin]

Big deal if todays Strongman/Strongwoman/Powerlifting don't use it.I train Old Time Strong Man style which means using lifts that are rarely seen these days.

The main two ways the old time strong men did it was with dumbbells and barbells.

I'm taking it you have never used it so what you are saying is "PERSONAL OPINION".

The problem I have found is the people bashing a lift do so because it's diffrent and not many people use it.

And you are always going on about how no one uses it now...wrong there are those of us who are keeping the old stryle of training going!

No I am actually going off of the physiology of that lift which shows it is something which can easily end up hurting the body as you are in too vulnerable of a position.

Old-time lifts are not seen as often these days because they have been shown to not be as effective either in being dangerous or not great for hypertrophy/strength gains.

[Zenos]

No I am actually going off of the physiology of that lift which shows it is something which can easily end up hurting the body as you are in too vulnerable of a position.

( you forget that a person can hurt themseleves picking up a ten pound dumbebell i have seen that happen even though the poor sap used propper form. Most of the old timers despite being muscular where more interested in health and strength and vior/viality and longivity and saw muscle development as a reward for doing the right things in and out of the gym.

Whats getting me is you are being so vocal against this life and are basicvally doing the equivalent of a "DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON!" here.

Have you you ever REALLY given the lift a try,or are you just going from what you seen in that vid.

Just looking at a vid then going the route of the ArmChair and declaring such and such about a lift means nothing,it's only when you get under the bar and start doing it (with low reps)that you find out what it does)


Old-time lifts are not seen as often these days because they have been shown to not be as effective either in being dangerous or not great for hypertrophy/strength gains.

(Total horse pucky,the basics then are the basics now,the reason that such old time lifts as the bent press,one arm snatch,one arm clean and jerk,etc etc are no longer used is simply because of the change in the rules of Olympic lifting,over time they kept dropping lifts by the 30's (and on up until the 70's) they had settled on 3 lefts the clean and press(was eliminated in the 70's),the two hand clean and jerk,and the two hand snatch.

They eliminated all other lifts but those three and it was found that with few lifts to concentrate on during training the records went way up in competition,not that that means those lifts that where dropped where inferior it's just they had less lifts to try to make records in.


I perosnally think it's still a good thing to train on the old time lifts,and what you seem to not realize is there are still plenty of people out there that do train on them.

Heres a group dedicated to it:

United States All-Round Weightlifting Association

MISSION STATEMENT

The USAWA was formed to continue the long standing tradition of old-time weightlifters like Eugen Sandow, Louis Cyr, Arthur Saxon, Hermann Goerner, Warren Lincoln Travis, and many others. We strive to preserve the history of the original forms of weightlifting, which in the past has been referred to as “odd lifting”. Many of the lifts we perform are based on stage acts or challenge lifts of old-time strongmen.


http://www.usawa.com/)


Dude i suggest you get a copy of Brooks Kubiks awesome book "Dinosaur Training:Lost secrets of Strength and Devolpment",it if can't open you're eyes then nothing ever will.


http://www.brookskubik.com/dinosaur_training.html



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_Training

[Nellerin]

(Total horse pucky,the basics then are the basics now,the reason that such old time lifts as the bent press,one arm snatch,one arm clean and jerk,etc etc are no longer used is simply because of the change in the rules of Olympic lifting,over time they kept dropping lifts by the 30's (and on up until the 70's) they had settled on 3 lefts the clean and press(was eliminated in the 70's),the two hand clean and jerk,and the two hand snatch.

They eliminated all other lifts but those three and it was found that with few lifts to concentrate on during training the records went way up in competition,not that that means those lifts that where dropped where inferior it's just they had less lifts to try to make records in.


I perosnally think it's still a good thing to train on the old time lifts,and what you seem to not realize is there are still plenty of people out there that do train on them.

Heres a group dedicated to it:

United States All-Round Weightlifting Association

MISSION STATEMENT

The USAWA was formed to continue the long standing tradition of old-time weightlifters like Eugen Sandow, Louis Cyr, Arthur Saxon, Hermann Goerner, Warren Lincoln Travis, and many others. We strive to preserve the history of the original forms of weightlifting, which in the past has been referred to as “odd lifting”. Many of the lifts we perform are based on stage acts or challenge lifts of old-time strongmen.


http://www.usawa.com/)


Dude i suggest you get a copy of Brooks Kubiks awesome book "Dinosaur Training:Lost secrets of Strength and Devolpment",it if can't open you're eyes then nothing ever will.


http://www.brookskubik.com/dinosaur_training.html



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinosaur_Training

As much as you tout the benefits of old time lifts, explain to me how the bent press is not a potentially very dangerous lift.

If you even slightly tweak position with that lift you will likely end up with a major shoulder or back issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_press yes it is wikipedia but still the author quotes a source saying that it could cause tears and is very dangerous and is no longer used for that reason. And, with even a simple understanding of basic muscular physiology you can tell that a movement like the bent press is not safe.

There are really no other links I can provide since no one employs the bent press as a plausible and safe lift that yields any sort of special benefit to the body.

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=sfsethfitz;1968763]As much as you tout the benefits of old time lifts, explain to me how the bent press is not a potentially very dangerous lift.

If you even slightly tweak position with that lift you will likely end up with a major shoulder or back issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_press yes it is wikipedia but still the author quotes a source saying that it could cause tears and is very dangerous and is no longer used for that reason. And, with even a simple understanding of basic muscular physiology you can tell that a movement like the bent press is not safe.

http://www.usawa.com/QUOTE]



You also fail to meantion from you're own wiki source the following:


"However, proponents of the exercise argue that since it uses the leverage of the body in order to lift the weight, if done correctly it can be quite safe."




The fact is any exrcise or lift has the portential to be harmful if done wrong.


Again have you even investigatied the lift as in ACTUALLY try it for at least 3-4 months or are you simply setting back doing the armchair thing by taking someone elses word as to it's being unsafe, or have you actuilaly tried it?


I took the time to actually investigate and get real world exprience learning how to do the bent press,and I maintain through my own experince that if you learn the proper technique of how to do the bent press and don't rush the adding of weight to the bar it is just as safe and producive a lift as anyother use today.

Plus it's not that hard to get out from under the bar if you loose trhe bars balance .

I've lost balance one time due to a pet cat sinking it's claws into my calf and i had no problem getting out form under the bar safely.

I also take it yhat you are into bodybuilding which is in this day and age all about show and no go,so theres no need for me to try to talk to you about the bent press or any of the old time lifts,because you'll reject any reason given for doing them.


Proof is I gave this link to this gorup;

http://www.usawa.com/


and you're reply was:

There are really no other links I can provide since no one employs the bent press as a plausible and safe lift that yields any sort of special benefit to the body.



So to me it appears you are more into the bodybuilding and pump and tone kinda thing!

[Nellerin]

[QUOTE=sfsethfitz;1968763]As much as you tout the benefits of old time lifts, explain to me how the bent press is not a potentially very dangerous lift.

If you even slightly tweak position with that lift you will likely end up with a major shoulder or back issue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bent_press yes it is wikipedia but still the author quotes a source saying that it could cause tears and is very dangerous and is no longer used for that reason. And, with even a simple understanding of basic muscular physiology you can tell that a movement like the bent press is not safe.

http://www.usawa.com/QUOTE]



You also fail to meantion from you're own wiki source the following:


"However, proponents of the exercise argue that since it uses the leverage of the body in order to lift the weight, if done correctly it can be quite safe."




The fact is any exrcise or lift has the portential to be harmful if done wrong.


Again have you even investigatied the lift as in ACTUALLY try it for at least 3-4 months or are you simply setting back doing the armchair thing by taking someone elses word as to it's being unsafe, or have you actuilaly tried it?


I took the time to actually investigate and get real world exprience learning how to do the bent press,and I maintain through my own experince that if you learn the proper technique of how to do the bent press and don't rush the adding of weight to the bar it is just as safe and producive a lift as anyother use today.

Plus it's not that hard to get out from under the bar if you loose trhe bars balance .

I've lost balance one time due to a pet cat sinking it's claws into my calf and i had no problem getting out form under the bar safely.

I also take it yhat you are into bodybuilding which is in this day and age all about show and no go,so theres no need for me to try to talk to you about the bent press or any of the old time lifts,because you'll reject any reason given for doing them.


Proof is I gave this link to this gorup;

http://www.usawa.com/


and you're reply was:

There are really no other links I can provide since no one employs the bent press as a plausible and safe lift that yields any sort of special benefit to the body.



So to me it appears you are more into the bodybuilding and pump and tone kinda thing!

Oh where do i start.

1. The site you reference promotes the lifts that are frequently on "what lifts you shouldn't do lists" and so I'm not putting a lot of stock in your source LOL.

2. The bent press is not something I have tried because it provides 0 benefit over the more common and safer exercises that have been proven to be best and yielding results.

3. Bodybuilding has NOTHING to do with getting a pump and therefore you know nothing about it.

4. You still haven't provided a reason why the bent press is better than normal lifts like squats, bench, deadlifts, rows, pull downs, military presses. And the reason you haven't is because there is no benefit to doing a bent press over something else.

5. Just because there is way to do it safely doesn't mean you should do it. Evidence shows that lightly cycling Anabolic Steroids is not going to kill you, therefore do you recommend everyone hop on some of those as well.

[Zenos]

[QUOTE=sfsethfitz;1968989][QUOTE=Zenos;1968912]

Oh where do i start.

1. The site you reference promotes the lifts that are frequently on "what lifts you shouldn't do lists" and so I'm not putting a lot of stock in your source LOL.

(Probably other lifts you haven't tried but are going to set there at you're keyboard and presume to tell others ALL ABOUT THEM!)



2. The bent press is not something I have tried because it provides 0 benefit over the more common and safer exercises that have been proven to be best and yielding results.

( Thats ALL I NEED TO KNOW! You haven't tried it so you don't know what benefits you would derive from it,so you are nothing more tyhen am ARMCHAIR THEORIST about it.Sp please stop trying to sound like and authority on it because you know nothing about it.
Theres nothing worse them someone being all authority like about something ,then admitting they never tried it and still going on all authority like about it.)



3. Bodybuilding has NOTHING to do with getting a pump and therefore you know nothing about it.

(hmm theres the pumping aka muscle flushing technique which is what i was referenceing there Mr.Know it all)




4. You still haven't provided a reason why the bent press is better than normal lifts like squats, bench, deadlifts, rows, pull downs, military presses. And the reason you haven't is because there is no benefit to doing a bent press over something else.


(See you are thinking from a bodybuilding point of view.

Try thinking from the point of an all around lifter point of view or that of an old time strongman or follower of Physical Culture instead of a Bodybuilder.
It works and strengthens the muscles in a diffrent way than most lifts


let me qoute Arthur Saxon from his book The Text Book of Weight-Lifting ,Chapter 3 the Bentpress,page 45:

Strength,stamina and science all enter into it in equal proportions,and the man who would make a sucesss of the lift,a striking sucess that is ,must necessarily be a first class all-round lifter.


page 46:

I would strongly advice one and all to male a special study of the "bentpress" because it is an all-round lifter's lift.

5. Just because there is way to do it safely doesn't mean you should do it. Evidence shows that lightly cycling Anabolic Steroids is not going to kill you, therefore do you recommend everyone hop on some of those as well.


(Get real only an idiot would suggest doing roids for anything for medical reasons. But again you have never done the bent press so please stop trying to sound like an authority on the lift.)

[Apollo.]

[QUOTE=sfsethfitz;1968989][QUOTE=Zenos;1968912]

Oh where do i start.

1. The site you reference promotes the lifts that are frequently on "what lifts you shouldn't do lists" and so I'm not putting a lot of stock in your source LOL.

(Probably other lifts you haven't tried but are going to set there at you're keyboard and presume to tell others ALL ABOUT THEM!)



2. The bent press is not something I have tried because it provides 0 benefit over the more common and safer exercises that have been proven to be best and yielding results.

( Thats ALL I NEED TO KNOW! You haven't tried it so you don't know what benefits you would derive from it,so you are nothing more tyhen am ARMCHAIR THEORIST about it.Sp please stop trying to sound like and authority on it because you know nothing about it.
Theres nothing worse them someone being all authority like about something ,then admitting they never tried it and still going on all authority like about it.)



3. Bodybuilding has NOTHING to do with getting a pump and therefore you know nothing about it.

(hmm theres the pumping aka muscle flushing technique which is what i was referenceing there Mr.Know it all)




4. You still haven't provided a reason why the bent press is better than normal lifts like squats, bench, deadlifts, rows, pull downs, military presses. And the reason you haven't is because there is no benefit to doing a bent press over something else.


(See you are thinking from a bodybuilding point of view.

Try thinking from the point of an all around lifter point of view or that of an old time strongman or follower of Physical Culture instead of a Bodybuilder.
It works and strengthens the muscles in a diffrent way than most lifts


let me qoute Arthur Saxon from his book The Text Book of Weight-Lifting ,Chapter 3 the Bentpress,page 45:

Strength,stamina and science all enter into it in equal proportions,and the man who would make a sucesss of the lift,a striking sucess that is ,must necessarily be a first class all-round lifter.


page 46:

I would strongly advice one and all to male a special study of the "bentpress" because it is an all-round lifter's lift.

5. Just because there is way to do it safely doesn't mean you should do it. Evidence shows that lightly cycling Anabolic Steroids is not going to kill you, therefore do you recommend everyone hop on some of those as well.


(Get real only an idiot would suggest doing roids for anything for medical reasons. But again you have never done the bent press so please stop trying to sound like an authority on the lift.)

I'm sorry, I really don't care about your arguments with other people, in my mind you shouldn't come on a site and promote a lift that is pretty dangerous with a good chance of hurting you when you aren't using the perfect form. I would keep my mouth shut and stand back if I saw someone teaching it in a gym because at least they can ensure their trainee has the proper form you online however cannot!

I have trained for strength and speed when I was cage fighting and more recently for size since I have started bodybuilding. Having trained my way towards 2 different aims I have never seen nor heard of this lift probably because you have more chance of getting hurt than getting strong!

p.s your example using steroids, if someone walked up to me and told me they wanted to win the Olympia then yes I would tell them to go on a crazy dosed test and tren cycle with a little bit of hgh thrown in! It all depends what level you want to take it to!