Obama claiming we will pay more taxes under Romney

[Cicero]

Supporting Source 1 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/ralphbenko/2012/07/23/dear-president-obama-you-cant-create-growth-but-you-can-suffocate-it/)

Supporting Source 2 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbradley/2012/09/24/obamas-smokescreen-obscures-smart-energy-policies/)

Supporting Source 3 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/09/02/obamas-accelerating-downward-spiral-for-america/)

Supporting Source 4 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara/2012/08/23/dont-believe-obamas-ads-romney-is-a-middle-class-tax-cutter/)

Whats going on with Obama? Why is he making these claims if theyre are obviously untrue? These are major/pretty big claims.

[Magical]

I'm not entirely knowledgeable regarding American politics, but yeah. Romney making you pay more taxes?

I suppose that's fair - average taxpayer might pay more so the rich have no taxes.

1. Please don't quote mine.

2. Supporting oil and coal isn't sustainable. You want nuclear fission as your power source, but Thorium, not Uranium.

3. Yeah. You just go blame Bush's fucking idiocy on Obama. Smart? OBAMA'S VAST POWERS. YEAH. REPUBLICANS DIDN'T BLOCK ANYTHING HE DID. OH NO. And Bush? He did something right? What was it?
Oh yeah. Lost to Obama. Got it.
This guy isn't lying. At all.

4. Mitt Romney. Gonna raise taxes on the RICH! Yeah!
No. He isn't. So where will that money come from? The middle class.

Those sources. Terrible. Don't listen to them. Don't post them. They are disgusting. Additionally, they outright lie.

[Cicero]

I'm not entirely knowledgeable regarding American politics, but yeah. Romney making you pay more taxes?

I suppose that's fair - average taxpayer might pay more so the rich have no taxes.

1. Please don't quote mine.

2. Supporting oil and coal isn't sustainable. You want nuclear fission as your power source, but Thorium, not Uranium.

3. Yeah. You just go blame Bush's fucking idiocy on Obama. Smart? OBAMA'S VAST POWERS. YEAH. REPUBLICANS DIDN'T BLOCK ANYTHING HE DID. OH NO. And Bush? He did something right? What was it?
Oh yeah. Lost to Obama. Got it.
This guy isn't lying. At all.

4. Mitt Romney. Gonna raise taxes on the RICH! Yeah!
No. He isn't. So where will that money come from? The middle class.

Those sources. Terrible. Don't listen to them. Don't post them. They are disgusting. Additionally, they outright lie.

hmmm, no they are legit sources. But I didn't fully understand what you were saying. Romney wants smaller government, which is smart. cause then theyll spend less. Jefferson wanted a smaller government too, and many other historical american leaders

[Magical]

He wants to make the government smaller, smarter and simpler. Big governments spend big money.

OK. What about that debt America is in? That Bush made?

Oh look, a person dead 150 years was in favour of small government. YAY! RELEVANT!

CUTTING TAXES DOES NOT DECREASE THE FUCKING DEBT. Are you insane?

I was wrong on the Bush front, yes.

Babbling?

You didn't adress ANY of my points.

Answer them, or I'll ignore your replies in this thread.

[Cicero]

He wants to make the government smaller, smarter and simpler. Big governments spend big money.

OK. What about that debt America is in? That Bush made?

Oh look, a person dead 150 years was in favour of small government. YAY! RELEVANT!

CUTTING TAXES DOES NOT DECREASE THE FUCKING DEBT. Are you insane?

I was wrong on the Bush front, yes.

Babbling?

You didn't adress ANY of my points.

Answer them, or I'll ignore your replies in this thread.

romneys plan will not raise taxes for both upper and middle class. bush did not make all the debt. obama has added over 5 trillion dollars to the debt, on failed stimulus packages. obama has added more debt than bush in 1 term, than bush has in 2 terms (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/) you have also provided 0 sources.

[FreeFall]

No. Romney's yet again proving how out of touch he is with the "average American". He has no idea what the Middle Class is, Obama either, but Romney's dramatically off and wrong. He defines middles class as those with incomes $250,000- $200,000 and under. Granted there no set definition, but we certainly do not make that kind of money and call ourselves middle class.

http://www.newsy.com/videos/romney-s-middle-class-definition-250-000-and-less/

Seriously. That topic, Romeny giving a skewed definition of Middle Class, was all over news papers. Anyone that believes that's what the middle class is, what is your poor?

Here's what Middle Class has been defined as this year. http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?Docid=3522&DocTypeID=2

And because he's grouping those with more money as his Middle Class, the real middle class is going to get stomped on. Basically, he's actually being sly and giving those with more money the tax break, while the not so rich continue their fight against taxes.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/08/29/769401/hanlon-feldstein-middle-class/?mobile=nc

And here's dear old Romney speaking the actual Middle class, the votes he needs, the real people of the middle class, that they shouldn't expect any sort of tax relief from him. But of course, Middle Class won't be hurt by taxes.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/26/romney-ohio-taxes_n_1915949.html

He's got quite the foot in mouth syndrome these days.

[Magical]

romneys plan will not raise taxes for both upper and middle class. bush did not make all the debt. obama has added over 5 trillion dollars to the debt, on failed stimulus packages. obama has added more debt than bush in 1 term, than bush has in 2 terms (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/) you have also provided 0 sources.

Failed stimulis packages. They stopped a depression.

http://www.economist.com/node/21560529

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-obamas-stimulus/2012/08/10/7935341e-e176-11e1-ae7f-d2a13e249eb2_story.html

(Yes, I know the Washington Post is biased.)

Additionally, this smaller government Mitt Romney wants? What will it do with America's debt?

Keep it gaining interest?

I'm done here.

ANSWER ME.

Don't quote irrelevant sources, actually answer me.

[West Coast Sheriff]

Mitt Romney! :D

[Lost in the Echo]

Well I don't know much about politics and shit, but I think Obama fucking sucks, he has made the country poor as fuck by doing stupid shit and it seems like he doesn't have a clue what he's doing, so he decides to talk shit about Mitt Romney and make up a bunch of lies to make himself look better. This country was way better before Barrack Obama became president. Out of those 4 choices I voted John McCain, it would be awesome if he was the president, he actually seems like someone who knows what he's doing and I don't think he would fuck our country as much as Barrack Obama has. Out of Romney and Obama, I think Mitt Romney would be a lot better president than Barrack Obama, in my opinion the U.S.A. was fine before Barrack Obama came along and fucked shit up.

[Magical]

Well I don't know much about politics and shit, but I think Obama fucking sucks, he has made the country poor as fuck by doing stupid shit and it seems like he doesn't have a clue what he's doing, so he decides to talk shit about Mitt Romney and make up a bunch of lies to make himself look better. This country was way better before Barrack Obama became president. Out of those 4 choices I voted John McCain, it would be awesome if he was the president, he actually seems like someone who knows what he's doing and I don't think he would fuck our country as much as Barrack Obama has. Out of Romney and Obama, I think Mitt Romney would be a lot better president than Barrack Obama, in my opinion the U.S.A. was fine before Barrack Obama came along and fucked shit up.

I'm sorry?

He makes up shit about Mitt?

Seriously?

The country was going into a depression before Obama took office because of Bush. Come on. He essentially tried his best to stop it, with all the idiocy of the Republicans holding him back. He's done amazing job.

[Lost in the Echo]

I'm sorry?

He makes up shit about Mitt?

Seriously?

The country was going into a depression before Obama took office because of Bush. Come on. He essentially tried his best to stop it, with all the idiocy of the Republicans holding him back. He's done amazing job.

Is the country any better than it was before he took office?
Nah, I don't think so.

[Magical]

....It's much better.

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-obama-turning-the-economy-around/president-obamas-policies-revived-the-economy

[Cicero]

I'm sorry?

He makes up shit about Mitt?

Seriously?

The country was going into a depression before Obama took office because of Bush. Come on. He essentially tried his best to stop it, with all the idiocy of the Republicans holding him back. He's done amazing job.

well i thought we already covered that Obama has spent more in office in one term, than Bush has in 2 terms, because of the source I gave you.and actually republicans are the ones who arent holding him back, when he got into office, he immediately appointed many democrats to hold the office beside him. from the sources I provided, there was proof, that before obama the median house hold income was $55,000, now because of Obama, its $51,000. That doesnt sound better than me, after Obama, the debt has rose another $5 trillion, when obama originally ssaid he'd cut the national debt in half. My mom used to own a small little restaurant along with her family, they couldn't survive for to long, because of how much regulations there are. Yes regulations are good, but Obama just keeps adding them like crazy, not thinking of the people on the other end of it. Our family business (opened 8 years ago) has failed, because of all these useless and stupid regulations that Obama has put up. Romneys plan will stop all of those useless regulations, that are making small businesses fail, and with that, it will greatly help small businesses. My parents have talked to many people who say they wanna open a business, but are scared to cause of Obama. Since when should somenoe be scared to open a business that will create 10+ jobs?! People should be encouraged to, and thats exactly what Mitt Romney will be doing, hes gonna encourage businesses to open, promoting job growth. Since obama took office, teachers and teachers assistance wages have gone down. A teachers wage has went down $3,000-$5,000 while a teachers assistance wage has gone down $4,000-$8,000.

What country do you live in?

[Magical]

Oh come on.

Do you know what a depression is?

Did Bush solve a depression?

No.

Did Obama?

Yes.

That's why the earnings have gone down and the debt has gone up. Come on.

Also, what regulations has Obama added that are a detriment to small businesses?

http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/07/smallbusiness/Romney-Obama-Small-Biz/index.htm

Republicans didn't block Obama?

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2012/06/13/gop-strategy-block-obama-then-blame-him.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303734204577464883344765926.html

Look, Tacitus.

Answer my points in my first post.

Come on.

This is fucking ridiculous. You're doing the same thing the Republicans love to do. Making things up.

[Cicero]

Oh come on.

Do you know what a depression is?

Did Bush solve a depression?

No.

Did Obama?

Yes.

That's why the earnings have gone down and the debt has gone up. Come on.

Also, what regulations has Obama added that are a detriment to small businesses?

http://money.cnn.com/2012/05/07/smallbusiness/Romney-Obama-Small-Biz/index.htm

Republicans didn't block Obama?

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/editorials/2012/06/13/gop-strategy-block-obama-then-blame-him.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303734204577464883344765926.html

Look, Tacitus.

Answer my points in my first post.

Come on.

This is fucking ridiculous. You're doing the same thing the Republicans love to do. Making things up.

What you said doesnt make any sense Did Bush solve a depression?

No.

Did Obama?

Yes.

That's why the earnings have gone down and the debt has gone up.
if he fixed the depression, than the national debt would have been lowered and jobs would have increased as well as there pay. Jobs have barely increase and obama has spent more than bush did in 2 terms (8 years). So how is that 'solved'? You make no sense. Who said I was a Republican ? lol your just making stuff up.

To answer the other concern of yours. Obama wants to be more dependent on Coal, solar, and wind energy.
I'm not entirely knowledgeable regarding American politics, but yeah. Romney making you pay more taxes?

I suppose that's fair - average taxpayer might pay more so the rich have no taxes.

1. Please don't quote mine.

2. Supporting oil and coal isn't sustainable. You want nuclear fission as your power source, but Thorium, not Uranium.

3. Yeah. You just go blame Bush's fucking idiocy on Obama. Smart? OBAMA'S VAST POWERS. YEAH. REPUBLICANS DIDN'T BLOCK ANYTHING HE DID. OH NO. And Bush? He did something right? What was it?
Oh yeah. Lost to Obama. Got it.
This guy isn't lying. At all.

4. Mitt Romney. Gonna raise taxes on the RICH! Yeah!
No. He isn't. So where will that money come from? The middle class.

Those sources. Terrible. Don't listen to them. Don't post them. They are disgusting. Additionally, they outright lie.

1. I dont understand
2. Ok cool, something that Obama will be doing is making us more dependent on coal, wind, and solar.
3. Obama's vast powers? I dont understand. In reply, Bush had already served his last term, he couldn't run again.
4. Romney will not raise taxes on middle class or rich, he will be cutting 20% taxes for both classes.
Those sources were legit, it was from an accredited business magazine that does its research.

Obama has just hurt the average household. Before he took office, the median household earned $55,000, after he took office it went down to $51,000. Thats not an improvement at all. That means they lost out on a whole entire months salary.

[Magical]

What you said doesnt make any sense
if he fixed the depression, than the national debt would have been lowered and jobs would have increased as well as there pay. Jobs have barely increase and obama has spent more than bush did in 2 terms (8 years). So how is that 'solved'? You make no sense. Who said I was a Republican ? lol your just making stuff up.

To answer the other concern of yours. Obama wants to be more dependent on Coal, solar, and wind energy.


1. I dont understand
2. Ok cool, something that Obama will be doing is making us more dependent on coal, wind, and solar.
3. Obama's vast powers? I dont understand. In reply, Bush had already served his last term, he couldn't run again.
4. Romney will not raise taxes on middle class or rich, he will be cutting 20% taxes for both classes.
Those sources were legit, it was from an accredited business magazine that does its research.

Obama has just hurt the average household. Before he took office, the median household earned $55,000, after he took office it went down to $51,000. Thats not an improvement at all. That means they lost out on a whole entire months salary.

Firstly, you have finally adressed my points!

Huzzah!

Secondly, I don't think you understand what a depression is. It's a more severe version of a recession. To quote Wikipedia on a recession: 'Macroeconomic indicators such as GDP, employment, investment spending, capacity utilization, household income, business profits, and inflation fall, while bankruptcies and the unemployment rate rise.'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_depression

Jobs have barely increased, you said. That means that a depression has been AVERTED, as jobs decrease in a depression. Solving this depression costed money, in the form of the stimulus.

Thirdly:
1. Quote mining is taking things other people said out of context to prove your point. It is intellectually dishonest in the extreme.
2. I agree that depencance on non-renewables, and non-reliable renewables is idiocy. The world needs nuclear power via Thorium fission. Then, massive solar panels in space to absorb energy while always facing the sun, which also shield a portion of the earth from the sun's EMR, postponing the issue of global warming for a bit. Yes, that was slightly off topic.
3. The point I was making there was that the Republicans have been attempting to block Obama from almost everything he attempted.
4. I'm sorry. Yes. He will be cutting taxes. To solve this debt. Yes. Somehow. Yes.

To adress your last point, Obama hasn't hurt the average household. The depression, which Obama averted, hurt the average household.

[Abyssal Echo]

Hiliary of course come on u no it wasn't Bill runnin the place.

[Cicero]

Firstly, you have finally adressed my points!

Huzzah!

Secondly, I don't think you understand what a depression is. It's a more severe version of a recession. To quote Wikipedia on a recession: 'Macroeconomic indicators such as GDP, employment, investment spending, capacity utilization, household income, business profits, and inflation fall, while bankruptcies and the unemployment rate rise.'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_depression

Jobs have barely increased, you said. That means that a depression has been AVERTED, as jobs decrease in a depression. Solving this depression costed money, in the form of the stimulus.

Thirdly:
1. Quote mining is taking things other people said out of context to prove your point. It is intellectually dishonest in the extreme.
2. I agree that depencance on non-renewables, and non-reliable renewables is idiocy. The world needs nuclear power via Thorium fission. Then, massive solar panels in space to absorb energy while always facing the sun, which also shield a portion of the earth from the sun's EMR, postponing the issue of global warming for a bit. Yes, that was slightly off topic.
3. The point I was making there was that the Republicans have been attempting to block Obama from almost everything he attempted.
4. I'm sorry. Yes. He will be cutting taxes. To solve this debt. Yes. Somehow. Yes.

To adress your last point, Obama hasn't hurt the average household. The depression, which Obama averted, hurt the average household.

He said because we wont need to put so much money into the war, that we will be able to use that money to pay a little bit of it off at a time. Well, under Obama. The average household has been making $4,000 less. So before Obama, everyone was making $4,000 more.

[Dietchy_Peach]

to get out of the hole we are in right now the rich paying more isnt going to fix it, the middle class paying more isn't going to fix it, the poor paying more isnt going to fix it. everyone is going to have to make major sacrifices, major welfare cuts, major medicare and medicaid cuts, slicing the military budget in half, increasing taxes for EVERYONE. why will no politician tell you any of this? because if they did they would be out of office. sure it is gonna suck for everyone, everyone fucked up in the government, but this is the way it will have to be, and it will probaly be to late before people realize this.

[darkwoon]

Well, under Obama. The average household has been making $4,000 less. So before Obama, everyone was making $4,000 more.
Obama had to face one of the worst global economical crisis since 1929. You cannot expect economical growth in such a situation, regardless of the national politics followed. It is also worth pointing that that crisis was a direct consequence of several years of mismanagement; if you want to properly analyse the crisis, you have to take those years into consideration. That is something Romney doesn't make (for obvious reasons), and that's why his analysis is, in my opinion, dishonest.

[Cicero]

Obama had to face one of the worst global economical crisis since 1929. You cannot expect economical growth in such a situation, regardless of the national politics followed. It is also worth pointing that that crisis was a direct consequence of several years of mismanagement; if you want to properly analyse the crisis, you have to take those years into consideration. That is something Romney doesn't make (for obvious reasons), and that's why his analysis is, in my opinion, dishonest.

But its no excuse for him making it worse. He said he would cut the national debt by half, but he's adding 50% more debt.

[darkwoon]

But its no excuse for him making it worse. He said he would cut the national debt by half, but he's adding 50% more debt.
The national debt level is in no way a direct indicator of economical health - Spain is a pretty good illustration of that.

Also, don't forget promises of reducing the US national debt were made before the financial and economical crisis started - trying to hold them within a completely changed economical context would have been absurd, to put it mildly.

[Cicero]

The national debt level is in no way a direct indicator of economical health - Spain is a pretty good illustration of that.

Also, don't forget promises of reducing the US national debt were made before the financial and economical crisis started - trying to hold them within a completely changed economical context would have been absurd, to put it mildly.

Yes, but its gotten worse. There is no excuse for everything to get worse like the median families income and the debt. the environment (speaking about the economy, debt, government, etc) changing is no excuse to start a huge $5 trillion spending on failed stimulus packages

[Magical]

It's gotten worse because there was a DEPRESSION.

That makes the economy worse.

It has been, in a large part, averted because of the SUCCESSFUL stimulus packages.

[Cicero]

It's gotten worse because there was a DEPRESSION.

That makes the economy worse.

It has been, in a large part, averted because of the SUCCESSFUL stimulus packages.

they were not successful. What country do you live in ?

also to the person who keeps saying thisYou're not doing your research and are yet again speaking from a terribly biased opinion. Step outside of your comfort zone and gather facts from differing views before you solidfy what you think.

Actually be an adult, and leave your username in your neg rep.

[Sugaree]

I like how the poll doesn't even list all the presidential candidates. What about Jill Stein? Gary Johnson? Come on, OP, step up.

[Magical]

they were not successful. What country do you live in ?

also to the person who keeps saying this
Actually be an adult, and leave your username in your neg rep.

Well. You talked to me in a PM regarding this. I can't reply :D.

Again, I have two links in a previous post in this thread that show that the stimulus was successful.

http://www.economist.com/node/21560529

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...eb2_story.html

Those are the links.

[Cicero]

I like how the poll doesn't even list all the presidential candidates. What about Jill Stein? Gary Johnson? Come on, OP, step up.

I actually didn't know all of the candidates for both sides, so i just did one from last year and this year

[Bath]

OP request.

:locked2: